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Class Teaches Nerds Social Skills
PeterAitch writes "According to Reuters, Potsdam University in Germany is now teaching social skills as part of their IT courses. This is intended to 'ease entry into the world of work'. The 440 students enrolled in the master's degree course will learn how to write flirtatious text messages and emails, impress people at parties and cope with rejection(s)." The class is taught by a superficial model, who will fall in love with the nerdiest student at the end of the semester after realizing that he is beautiful on the inside.
"According to Reuters, Potsdam University in Germany is now teaching social skills as part of their IT courses. This is intended to 'ease entry into ..... a superficial model, who will fall in love with the nerdiest student at the end of the semester after realizing that he is beautiful on the inside.
we are happy the way we are
I flirt with that hot female blood elf on WoW, you insensitive clod!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
Don't start conversations by shouting "first post" after someone mentions a subject.
Each week the nerds will be tested on a combination of technical ability and geek trivia to win immunity to the social challenge. The loser of the challenge will have to leave the show to the bellow of Ogre from "Revenge of the Nerds."
According to Reuters, Potsdam University in Germany is now teaching social skills as part of their IT courses. This is intended to 'ease entry into ... a superficial model, who will ... love ... the end ... after realizing that he is ... inside.
Because banging Demi Moore is the best way to know that you're not just another biochem nerd.
It must suck if/when you fail it though....
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
Where was this course when I went to college.
Social Intelligence is a skill that can be taught and learned. That is how most people get it although somewhat unconsciously. Inherent personality does play a role which is why "Nerds" have to work harder at learning it.
Because the majority of the world runs on Social IQ more than we like to admit.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
Remember, Kevin Mitnick was a computer hacker, but an even better social engineer.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
he is beautiful on the inside.
... And he has the X-Rays to prove it.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Back when I went to MIT, the normal class load was four classes per semester and one of those classes was required to be a humanities class (strictly speaking, you didn't actually have to take exactly one per semester but you had to end up with equivalent totals).
I suppose that there were a variety of justifications for that requirement. At a pragmatic level, a lot of the HR and management types would probably resent someone who didn't take any humanities classes in college. The official justification for the policy, though, was that it would somehow help with social skills.
In retrospect, idea that studying ancient literature, for example, will actually help a student's social skills is questionable at best. My attitude these days is that if MIT had really wanted to improve their student's social skills then they should have had them take such classes directly.
While much of the classical Freudian psychology is of dubious value, there are aspects of modern psychology that take a pragmatic approach to interpersonal relationships, and managing emotions generally, and these modern approaches can actually be quite successful.
So, while I'm skeptical that science and technology students should be required to take humanities classes at all, if humanities classes are going to be required then they might as well actually be useful - like how to get a date (and deal with the rejection).
I always thought my engineering school only allowed in students with no visible social skills. That seemed to describe 80% of the student body.
Think Deeply.
> ...how to write flirtatious text messages and emails...
And get arrested for sexual harrassment.
> ...impress people at parties...
"Impressive! I bet he took courses in being a boor!"
> ...and cope with rejection(s)...
Sulking works fine. Go away and leave me alone.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
The 440 students enrolled in the master's degree course will learn how to...cope with rejection
Yeah, that last point, can't help but feel that will be 90% of the lectures.
Many of the "nerds" I know are not socially inept because of lack of training. It's because they have a disorder or disease. Not bathing, incredibly wierd behaivoir, etc... The "hot chick" is not going to date you because you are...
1 - dressed like a wierdo. Sorry Emo/Goth is not cool.. It's as bad as dressing in a star trek shirt.
2 - Social tact, you have to actually have some.
3 - Hygene.. good god, take a bath, discover toothpaste, and deodorant, cheap cologne is not a substitute.
4 - There are no good pick up lines. Stop trying, stop reading the speed seduction books, they do not work if you do not understand human psychology and look like a "hunk" or at least semi cute to a woman.
5 - Nerdy = dorky and repellant. the second you mention you're a top notch national MTG player they will ask to go to the bathroom and never come back. Magic the Gathering is NOT COOL, nor any of your really nerdy activities.
Now all bets are off if you find a nerdy girl. I strongly suggest never even trying for the hotties and look only for nerdy girls. Librarians tend to be nerdy and incredibly sexually creative. Honestly a HOT CHICK is not worth the pain of their upkeep, and maintenance.
Find a nerdy chick that is a bit of a sex freak and you got a incredible relationship.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I can't believe you fucking morons waste your life here. Listen, this is your LIFE. You need to be living with real human beings. You need to go find a girlfriend and spend time with her. You need to find happiness. Happiness is not in your online games or crappy manga books, it is in other people.
Do you really want to be 40 years old and look back to your 18-25 years and realize you pissed them away in fits of loneliness playing RPGs and crying yourself to sleep? I know most, if not all of you, had no real childhood or high school experiences because you were too busy being antisocial losers. Change that, now. How much greater would your life be now had you worked up the courage to talk to that one girl and go to the prom with her? Wouldn't high school have been amazing if you actually went out with friends on the weekend and saw movies? This is why you people love anime so much, because it portrays these perfect people going through high school living the lives YOU wish you could have lived back then.
Stop wasting your time on the Internet. Look outside and see the trees and the sun. Please. There is a world out there. There are interesting people all over. Why do you want to throw away what is left of your life playing fictional RPGs when real life is one big RPG with real consequences and relationships?
Are you just afraid? I mean, look at me, I own this NICEboat.
"According to Reuters, Potsdam University in Germany is now teaching social skills as part of their IT courses. This is intended to 'ease entry into the world of work'. The 440 students enrolled in the master's degree course will learn how to write flirtatious text messages and emails, impress people at parties and cope with rejection(s)."
Sounds like a good way to get fired especially if they aren't teaching appropriate context, etc. By sterotype (which would be how this seems to have come about) nerds would have more difficulty with understanding appropriate context than figuring out a good template for a romantic message.
My college called a course with similar goals: Public speaking and it worked just fine. Although we probably could have done with a second course.
Alternatively take a leaf out of the parent's book and piss your life away being an internet troll.
It's a good thing that this class doesn't perpetuate any stereotypes about those involved in computer science.
Seriously, not every person involved in the field of computers is a huge nerd in need of social skills classes, and I would say that the majority aren't actually how they are depicted here.
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A lot of homeschooled kids end up socially disfunctional because they aren't put into extra curricular activities where most socializing happens even in public schools.
You could probably learn just as much as the class teaches by joining clubs and sports teams. You learn how to interact with people by being around people.
A lot of it is just getting past your fears and putting yourself out there. The more you do it the more your fear lessens or at least your ability to deal with it improves.
Work Safe Porn
You have to be taught to take a bath, speak clearly and coherently and say please and thank you? Really, you have to be taught this stuff?
What's next? You have to be taught you have to have money in the bank to buy something?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
As children (4th thru 6th grade) my wife and I attended a once-a-week school for the gifted in Okaloosa County, Florida (think Destin-area) as the gifted program. Not only was it like college, where you signed up for classes in things like Chemistry, Children's Theatre, or Visual Arts - but they had an amazing class called "Looking Good". Dr. Christensen taught one class for girls, and one for boys on etiquette, dating, ballroom dancing, hygiene, etc. At the end of the year, they held a dance at which the two classes would interact. I have to say it left a huge impression on me over the years - and I feel my life, particularly in social situations, was greatly enriched by her program and teaching.
meh
So in order to "ease entry into the world of work", they'll "learn how to write flirtatious text messages and emails"? Hm. Reeks of a sexual harrassment course to me :)
Seriously though: I love this idea. I don't oppose the idea that you can be perfectly happy in your own antisocial world, but still you can't deny the fact that you need some amount of social skills for your career, especially now that the job market is tightening up. A recruiter that has to choose between two guys with pretty much the same amount of computer skills, will definitely choose the one that acts friendlier and looks less scruffy.
and sometimes (but rarely) sufficient for success in life.
I've seen many technically competent individuals who do not know how to interact, collaborate, and navigate the murky waters of office and societal politics. While their individual work may be good, they do not succeed in their career for various reasons. They do not know how to convince people of the value of their ideas and how to integrate those ideas into larger projects. They cannot maintain relationships with coworkers and bosses. Not sucking up, but perceiving what others need, and assisting them, or doing things as the boss wants to make his/her life easier.
In social situations as well, even beyond the romantic, no man is an island; we are social creatures. Just hanging around with friends, or doing fun activities (even geeky ones like playing games, etc.) is enjoyable and makes life worth living.
Rarely do people just succeed based on social skills, often there is something of value there that those skills complement. But it is nearly impossible to achieve success (defined as either career growth, happiness from good friends and significant others, money, etc.) without some degree of social awareness and aptitude.
-"Those who fought today will die tommorow."-
The reason why nerds have that weird behavior is because they can get away with it. This is because they essentially have nothing to lose, and the capital that I'm referring to here is acceptance and validation by his peers. Since he knows he would never "get anywhere" with them anyway, he has no incentive to have the hygiene or tact that you mention.
If his self-esteem is even lower, then he claims those "outsider" social trappings (emo/goth) as part of his identity. This is a way for outsiders to gain companionship, but, inside, many of them want out.
The only way for an individual to gain self-esteem is to earn it. It can't be given to him by teachers who hand out "Good Job!" stickers to all students regardless of effort. An individual has to meet people, make friends, take chances, stand up for himself, refuse to be abused, be positive, and be funny. If he's rewarded for that behavior with more friends, then he gains self-esteem.
High school teaches us nerds all the wrong things about human interaction. Being punished for our choices drives us farther into seclusion and "nerdy" behavior.
Teaching "social skills" won't fix anything. Instead, send people to therapy and help them find ways to rebuild their destroyed self-esteem. Telling a nerd, "Bathe every once in a while!" is not going to do him any good if, inside, he says to himself: "I'm not worth the effort."
My self-esteem was destroyed when I was 12. It took me until I was 34 to earn it back.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
They will learn how to "write flirtatious text messages and emails" and this is supposed to help them enter the world of work? Now I might not be the biggest social guy around, but even I know that writing flirtatious e-mails at work isn't going to help you out. In fact, it's likely to get you fired. Especially if they are directed at your co-workers. (And, no, I don't know about this from experience. In my single days, I made it a rule never to "dip my pen in the company ink." Not that I ever had the opportunity mind you...)
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Surely the point of the training is that some nerds don't know the point at which ordinary human interaction becomes harassment, and because of this either fail to communicate or get into trouble. I didn't know this and then ended up in what was nearly a single sex university (Cambridge at the end of the 60s) - it took several years in the world of work to recover.
It's also worth pointing out that when nerds do get married, which they usually do, it often turns out very well. Low divorce rates, successful children. The application of intelligence to human relationships is not a bad idea.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
"That contest has no way to win. So, I changed the game."
Everyone *else* will try to answer those geek questions. I know the "model" is Mrs. Doubtfire's daughter, and not what she seems.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
At very bottom rung of the self-esteem ladder is furries. No matter who you are or what you are into, you will be accepted into a furry community. It's a great big love-fest over there. It's no surprise that there are so many gay guys and nerdy guys among furries: both of them have traditionally had their self-esteem utterly ruined by the time they graduate high school. The furry community provides them with a perfect escape from the hell world they've grown up in -- this escape is a fantasy world where everyone loves them.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
For those of us who won't leave their parents' basement.
Have gnu, will travel.
Oh come on! You don't join this courses to learn how to flirt. Time spent studying this is time not spent studying IT, the thing you are there to study. It will piss off both people who don't have social problems and those 100% focused on IT, both extremes! What if you gay? Is this 100% hetro? Is this just a way of not having to teach so much IT so you can get by with staff who know less? This is broken in sooo many ways.
One of the lesser mentioned symptoms of adult ADD is the propensity to speak out improperly (otherwise known as a lack of tact).
ADD also tends to drive creativity and the capacity to make obtuse connections. This is generally what makes a nerd a nerd.
Get the right ADD medication and some paxil.
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This will be about as good for them as "Change Your Underwear, Change Your Life," and similar self-help books. Most of what people call "social skills" problems really boils down to self-esteem. I've been to more than a few support groups, talked to a lot of people about their childhood and adolescent learning experiences, coached people on interviewing skills... I don't have a degree as a therapist, but at least in my social circle I'm the go-to girl (for better and for worse!). That said, don't take what I have to say as the gospel -- it's just my own point of view.
First, there's nothing wrong with so-called "nerds", "geeks", or many other classes of people that are bright, insightful, but often shy and hard to approach. They are rarely rude, they don't insult people, they respect another's boundaries if told directly. About the only thing "wrong" with them is that they miss subtlety and sometimes lack tact. Frankly, there's a lot more wrong with people who consider themselves to have "great social skills" than those who don't -- those people are often manipulative, petty, morally underdeveloped, and often destroy group harmony to further their own ambitions. For the girls, I have two words: Queen bee. Guys who have these "great social skills" are often egotistical, inconsiderate, etc. My friends call it the "napoleon complex", after a certain short guy in history who had a real problem with the word "no."
I guess what I'm saying to the people who think their social skills have the suck... Stop beating yourself up. Contary to popular belief, none of us start out equal. And throughout life we never become equal. Trying to move towards normality is like trying to... Well, it's like the Kobashi Maru, you just can't win. So stop trying. Normal doesn't even exist. If you want these mythical social skills--Go someplace where you think there are others like you (or others who you'd like to be like if your self-concept isn't that developed) and listen to them. Watch, learn, interact. What movies do they watch? What phrases do they say? What little gestures do they make? Reason out what it all means and then practice it on your friends and anyone else you can. And don't judge yourself for awhile -- just go out and try things for a bit. The judging part everyone else will do for you (*trust me on this*), so focus on doing it instead of reviewing it. This isn't a question to be answered, but one to be lived. Someday you will find yourself experiencing the answer.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Have you been around kids?!? My experience (YMMV) is that yes, kids DO have to be taught to take a bath, speak clearly, and say please/thank you. It's hard for parents to get them to do that, and many of today's parents don't bother (perhaps because they incorrectly think that all kids will figure it out without being taught). The result is kids who are absolutely not ready for "real life". Forget the flirting; a class in the "basics of living in a society" (to raise your social IQ) is a really, really useful course. Stuff like bathing, having a brief conversation with someone you don't know, etc. Historically, the people who were getting ready to lead society went to finishing schools, took etiquette classes, etc. Some of it was bunk, but the basic idea that you need TRAINING to be able to work in a society is true enough. Self-taught can work, if you work at it... but too many people don't realize it's something that needs to be learned.
In Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age", a key part of the book was "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer". Being able to work with others - instead of offending them before you meet them - is a good idea.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
Class teaches anyone social skills. Not sure you can learn it, though...
Seeing bad movies only encourages them. Watch responsibly
Right idea, but it's stronger when inverted.
"My engineering school's entrance tests punished social skills by giving them no expression on the SAT that could offset a mistake elsewhere. Thus, Darwin has his day, yet again."
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
By opening up the possibility of nerds learning social skills without having to embarrass themselves in social settings, the world has just fired the first shot in a war that must inevitably lead to the end of Slashdot as we know it.
Viva la resistance!
I am sure I am going to maybe offend some of the men on here. I have mostly dated nerds or a variation of a nerd, like the art nerd, etc. I also dated two people that didn't even like computers. We went out clubbing, out to the movies, restaurants or a play, out hiking, biking, etc. We had many more conversations about a wide range of subjects. I liked the non nerd men in certain ways, but they weren't as caring as the nerdy ones though.
:) My last boyfriend was a hopeless nerd, god love him, but I can't be with someone that is socially awkward, a weeper to boot and spends his life playing games online.
I am not much of a gamer, and that was a big big problem in my nerd relationships. I mean I work predominately in IT, do you think I would want to spend my remaining free time on a computer? Hell no, I like living life.
I think the problem with nerdy men is that they feel comfy in their little boxed in life, which I think is a tad bit sad. I would rather experience life than be afraid of it. I am not saying that the nerdy ones are all like this, but nerds take a loooong time to grow into themselves. I am a notorious reformer. I have stopped that at this point, I gave up on nerds. Just my two cents.
1. "Use them, and throw them away when the next one comes along."
2. "They will require upgrades to their wardrobe and patches to their jewlry."
3. "SCO is the Rob Schneider "Hot-Chick" of the *nix world. you know, the other definition of hot - he keeps accusing you of stealing 'hot' IP from him."
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I studied applied Computer Science at the Free University of Brussels (Vrije Universiteit Brussel(VUB)) and we had a course like that.
It was called "communication skills of Computer Science" and basically learned how to hold meetings, do presentations, negociate, etc...
It didn't have the "how to pick up woman" part they are getting in Germany though.
The tech college I attend has always required communication, speech and a few other classes for any IT related degree. And, in about half the cases, it doesn't work.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
If only there were a way to package this material in such a way that it's a large framework of abstractions laden with a heavy dose of jargon so that communicating about it with peers, and reasoning about it, can be as fast and efficient as possible: IOIs (Indicators of Interest), Negs, DHVs (Demonstrations of Higher Value), Social Proof, Freeze-outs, Frames, Hoops, Cat/String Theory, Number Closing, AMOGs, shit tests, bitch shields, qualifying, disqualifying... who will lead the way in making this a science!? It's all such a Mystery...
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
In short: Go to the gym, get a good job, spend a lot of money on them. Given two nice guys the one with the bigger paycheck or better looks, or both... wins.
It's been that way for the last 8000 years, why would it change now?
Fact: Nice Guys Finish Last because people are complacent by nature. If you are nice all the time, it becomes expected and undervalued. That's why the jerks win, our rare "Love you babe" outweights your pathetic daily adorations.
Fact: The more money, the more women. Provider instincts haven't change in the last 8k years, ain't gonna change in the next 8k years. If you don't have money, get some weed.
Fact: Good looks get you laid, good portfolio gets you laid. You need to advertise, no one likes a bum, a cheapskate, or an anorexic that can't move the bookcase or change the tire.
Fact:
Good Looks + Money = Easier
Average Looks + Average Money = Door Mat easily replaced by the line above.
Ugly + Broke = Alone
You can always be replaced. Sad fact. So get yourself as high on the list as possible will buy you more time before they find an upgrade. If your lucky they'll die of old age before finding an upgrade.
It's a shallow material world and wishing it was better, teaching 'social' skills, will never replace a fast car, nice suit, and a good tan.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
. . . hitting him in the back of the head.
Repeatedly and with great force.
While you're at it join Toastmasters and get some practical experience too.
It did me a world of good!
... in order to learn social IQ from public school.
I learned a lot just by the minute interactions I had with a lot of my classmates, most of it being real shitty. It sucked, but I learned a lot from all of those bad experiences.
Being home schooled means you don't really get to experience all of those crappy, but necessary, events.
"Hegelians, who love a synthesis, will probably conclude that he wears a wig." - Bertrand Russell
Have you been around kids?!?
You're talking kids. The article is about adults. If by the time you're in Uni you don't know you have to take a daily bath/shower (barring late night cram sessions or drunken stupors) and speak clearly, not only did your parents do a shitty job of raising you, but you haven't bothered to learn something so basic to modern society. If you're not willing to learn something like this on your own well before you get to higher education, your ability to learn other things comes into question.
Historically, the people who were getting ready to lead society went to finishing schools, took etiquette classes, etc
That's because only they could afford to go to such places. Today, from roughly second grade onwards, there are health classes which people have to go through which go over the basics of hygiene. Every year, english classes teach people the proper way of forming sentence structures and I'm fairly certain they also make one give some form of public speaking.
To use a tired phrase, this isn't rocket science. With all the commercials bombarding people with the latest and greatest soaps, shampoos (no, not that shampoo) and whatnot, to claim that someone doesn't know they should keep themselves relatively clean is naive. I will grant the speaking clearly part. Listening to the people on (un)reality shows, it's quite obvious where these folks are getting their speaking examples from.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Since my knowledge about social skills is mostly intuitive I can't say for sure but I think social skills can be reduced to a few simple rules:
Be nice, be polite, be confident, pay attention.
If you are talking with nice people the first three rules are sufficient. The last rule is there because some people are not nice, they'll visibly show boredom when you talk to them, they'll throw sarcastic comments about you either in your face or behind your back (both nasty in their own way).
When you notice these people you start needing more skills:
If you are more powerful retaliate, if not get the group on your side, if you can't pay lip service to him.
Lip service is not only necessary for bosses but also for clients. Either way you start needing more rules:
When to back stab, successful black mailing, framing, manipulating fears, making temporal allies, speaking uncertainly.
That last one is also known as double speak and so you see I'm talking about politicians, the ultimate social engineers.
Social skills beyond what you need to get understood tend on the direction of dishonesty and make me feel sick although I know I could be making a lot more money if I learned to work people in my favor.
Since I'm friendly I always get invited to parties, but being antisocial I see no reason to go, listening to music I don't like, drinking stuff I don't drink, talking about stuff I don't want to talk with people I distrust and don't really care about, it's nasty.
One boss once asked me why I always refuse to go parties, I told him that it simply wasn't my thing, he told me that I needed to learn to hang around the boys, I told him that I work with them perfectly fine, finally he told me that I need to go to met people and get connections, I told him that my way works for me.
I could have told him that that was being hypocritical and manipulative, but like I said, I'm not social impaired just antisocial.
This whole thing is insulting to women on so many levels. 1. It imples all technically adept people are men. Why about the women in that class? What will they care about some superficial model? 2. It implies social ineptness in technical people. This is a ridiculious stereotype that has little bases in reality. Intelligent people are no more likely to be socially inept than unintelligent people. 3. It implies that the only women worth knowing are beautiful ones. Yes it's true, get an average roomfull of average people split down the middle male/female, 95% of the guys will all go for the one hot girl no matter what their own "package" is worth. Nobody cares about an intelligent girl unless she is hot. You wonder why women go to so much trouble.. that's why. 4. And why can't a technically adept woman be hot? Oh they can be. But nobody cares, except that she's hot.
It's not a class, it's just a one-time event. Basically it was today from 17:00 to 18:30.
The PR team of our institute probably just wanted more publicity and didn't told the whole truth.
It took me 10 years to learn to shut up at corporate meetings.
Higher management does not want to hear why their ideas won't work. Even when confronted with reality, they will quickly forget that you WERE CORRECT. You only will be remembered for being argumentative, for rocking the boat, and when layoffs come you will be first, or when promotions come you will be last.
When upper management comes up with an idea, however stupid, ALWAYS EMBRACE it. Remember -- they spent a bunch of time coming up with this idea, so it MUST be great?!? Corporate ideas are subject to the effects of evolution, good ideas thrive and survive, bad ideas quickly go extinct.
No one will remember the ideas that go extinct, they are quickly forgotten. But they will remember that you were (or were not) a "team player". (Whatever that means.)
If you are always positive and never point out management's inadequacies, you will promote faster, earn more money, and retire earlier.
- I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
So, let me understand this... A group with inferior earning potential (1) will teach a group with superior earning potential (2) how to be more like (1)? Yes, that makes a lot of sense...
End anonymous moderation and posting on
See post title. Wish I had modpoints today.
Yeah, it hurts.
Not just social skills - That phrasing could also apply to some people's attitudes towards the rich (especially those who seemingly got their money "the easy way")
Of course, from the other side, then they (the average people) turn around and call you elitists, and you think "Maybe I'm 'elite' for a darn good reason; maybe I don't want to stoop to 'their' level"
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
This is because a German education is very narrowly focussed and becames even narrower the further up the education process you go.
In a lecture hall of students only one of them would know what Star-Trek was. If they were MS fans they would profess to know nothing at all about Linux and vice versa. They would be remarkably lucky to achieve even five points in the Geek Test. They would not buy anything - anything at all (not even I need a Japanese Girlfriend hoodies) from think.geek.com. They do not know how to modify an X-Box or anything else worth modifying.
None of them have ever heard of The Smashing Pumpkins. None of them can cook. None of them can operate any domestic appliance. They profess to never watch television. They know nothing about the delights of caffiene (mmm!) or Snus and they would think noodles are pasta.
They accept the absence of a romantic partner in their lives with teutonic fatalism. Some of them do have girlfriends, some of them play video games and some of them (the ones on my course) look forward to the day when they will be able to play DNF on some liquid sodium cooled supercomputer or the X Box 3.
And just in case you missed it, Reuters is unable to tell the difference between a Geek and a Nerd.
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
I was home-schooled you insensitive clod!
is that you?
That's also why they're so easy to troll.
I find that age gives me the edge. There may be some biografic details to that, but being a end-30ties geek and nerd I find the big stars among my peers dimishing and me rising to new heights. It is only last year that I had my second and third sex & love-affair ever, and all three (including my first) know about each other and accept it. I remember nearly killing myself over not having ever had a girl at the age of 23 back in the early nineties. Now I find myself growing cooler by the year.
My geekishness and passion for the things I liked doing still burns and reflects back on me and has early twen PYT students at currently hip CS flat-sharing parties judge me about late 20ish and brake into heavy flirting. ... That 22 yr. old nurse at the last party was particularly cute. *sigh*
I was the typical nerd that didn't consume great amounts of alcohol back then and stopped drinking 20 years ago, which starts to give me an brainpower edge over my former-jock-now-fat-ass springbreaking peers. Instead I stayed up late on Fidonet, RPG and Tabletop sessions, pimping my social skills, my typign, wording, debating skills and my literacy. On top of that, everything awkward and geeky back then is super hip now. Comics (now Mangas), Fantasy, IT and computers, programming (gives you the status of some high priest at some occasions nowadays) and gaming.
Now I work at a game dev company with a current growth rate so bizar you wouldn't believe it, and am one of the oldest and most experienced amoung a team of currently 180 people. The 'young' guys come to me every odd day with a question, and when I give them an advice they listen and are gratefull.
I got my ass kicked by the pricks at school so many times, I still burn with fury sometimes just thinking about it. I've practiced performing and martial arts since the end of highschool and today I'd outrun every jock, who have all grown fat and lazy and/or have tar-lungs because they where cool back then and started smoking. And then I could still beat the living piss out of them, 5 at a time.
IMPORTANT ADVICE TO EARLY TWEEN NERDS: If you are a young male geek and nerd, rejoice. You're time is ten to fifteen years into the future, when your peers, girls included, have enough life experience to have learned what you know allready. Pratice art, take your time to learn about style, fashion and manners geek style (i.e.: learn it systematically like a new PL), stay in shape, go and take dancing lessons (I'm picking up Tango again next month), cut smoking and alcohol and live healthy and at the age of 30+ you'll be able to take your veritable pick of the litter of good-looking girls who can appreciate intelligent, reasonable men. When the pricks have burned all their karma and you'll kick their ass on every scale available and of interest to attractive women. Oh, and the sex will be awesome. Promise.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
A lot of people might laugh at something like this, but I'm not. I don't work with tons of people who might be considered "nerds" but that's mainly because my industry is a little less tech-heavy than a typical IT company. But, I have worked with tons of nerdy consultants/contractors.
There's two main types -- the first is the cultural nerd. Many people in IT have different backgrounds and come from all over. Some may not be used to American culture or know how to act in certain situations. The second is the typical native-born stereotypical basement-dweller nerd. Working with one of these tends to be very difficult just because they annoy most "normals." I'm not a social genius either, but I know what is and is not appropriate in a work setting. I show up to work in clean clothes, shower regularly and really try to take an interest in whatever topic a coworker wants to talk about. Some people I work with really don't make this effort.
Even a class on "what to do in a work environment" would be a huge plus. How many times have you had to cut off a colleague who kept interrupting in business meetings and saying "No, you're wrong, that'll never work."
Anyone left stateside in IT in the next ten years or so is going to have a really hard time finding work if they can't at least interact with people.
I, myself, went to public schools. However, one of my cousins was homeschooled, so I can comment on my social skills vs. hers. I would say that she actually has better social skills than I do. I am your stereotypical nerd. I've never dated. Not once have I been kissed or anything else along those lines. i have very few friends. She, however, is extremely outgoing. She's dated, she's got lots of friends, etc. She didn't recieve the best education in the world (in fact, I would say her mother probably did a *worse* job than public schools). Compare this to my friend Thomas, who I knew for quite some time. He was more socially withdrawn (like myself, actually), and he was homeschooled and public schooled. His sister had the same educational experience but was not withdrawn at all. I would wager that some of us are more or less prone to be intro- or extraverted. I myself am an extreme introvert, to the point of having an anxiety disorder. Even posting on message boards (or slashdot, even) can be difficult for me. I was picked on relentlessly in our lovely government education system, and learned hardly anything for it. I knew about evolution from my own independent studies. Learned some trig from rudimentary games. Learned a great deal about history and computers outside of school. What's left is algebra, and a desire to stop reading, due to the crappy choices schools have for literature. Wuthering Heights? WTF! I thank God that that author did not write much else.
Excuse me, but isn't this the job of parents? Perhaps at the old age of 37, perhaps I'm a bit old-fashioned and my way of thinking is outmoded. How dare I think that parents should pick up responsibility for the basics!
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I'll preference this quick with my own bias. I've gone though life as an above average looking geek. I base that on the amount of relative attention I've gotten from the opposite, and sometimes the same and while thx guys-not my cup of tea, sex. And notice I said attention not necessarily action. That is because...
As someone pointed out social IQ has a lot to do with what happens 'in life'. How does this social IQ get formed? Well by in large I believe it is done naturally as people grow up. We are very social animals and so normally a lot of trial and error shapes the way that people learn to interact. However 'geeks' and other social recluses go one of, and there may be more but these are the two that I have noticed, two ways.
1. They remove themselves from socializing to an extreme degree.
2. They are involved in socializing activities but over think everything.
I personally am a bit of #1, I am a geek after all that code/PCB/story/whatever wasn't going to write/build itself. But mostly after many years of introspection, go figure, it's been #2. In most situations normal people, and I feel really dirty writing that because it could easily be a put down or myself bragging but have to express it some way so blah, don't think about what they might do or say. They instead will just act upon it. Those that actually learn by that trial and error method are those who become normal people.
Now keep in mind there are those normal people who don't even learn from that normal trial and error method. And I damn sure know that there are plenty of people out there who are socially backwards without the backup of even being smart. The damming thing about being smart and socially backwards is that you know that your being socially backwards but feel helpless do do anything about it.
So anyway back on point for those people who over think things in social settings I wonder if any course is going to help. Seems to me like it would just reinforce that mentality. Rather as a number of people have said they need to actually go out and socialize. Even at the risk of being uncomfortable and making a bit of a fool out of themselves.
Keeping in mind that that those normal people already did it and made fools out of themselves too, but just did it in the get out of being a dolt free zone of being young. And finally that being even pretty good at being a social creature never removes the chance of being a fool. Rather just reduces that risk. (Of course some of my better memories involve being rather foolish.)
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
Growing up my step brother also discovered this weight lifting cult and it helped buoy his self esteem. He went from being a scrawny somewhat clueless kid to being a puffy clueless kid (but now with new, puffy clueless friends).
I can't say it helped him though because even if he did get the girl it only superficially solved the underlying problem. He 'fixed' himself by putting the work into the wrong parts and grew out instead of up and those kids he hug out with might have had muscle, but confidence and self-worth wasn't something I saw a lot of outside the dick-slapping and usual bravado they usually showed.
Your experiences may be correct, but don't let "home schooled" be a label you just put on people. I was home schooled from third grade until high school. During that time I was involved with many extracurricular activities from athletics to various clubs (both social and academic).
When I did come back to high school, I don't think I was any more awkward or disoriented than any of the other kids moving up from middle school. The biggest difference I really noticed was how far ahead I was above most of the students curriculum-wise (even compared to the "advanced" courses I took). Additionally, I earned a starting position for two varsity sports my freshman year (soccer and wrestling), began playing football my sophomore year eventually earning a starting position my junior year. I graduated with a 3.86, was named "most outgoing" and got into a top 25 university (Vanderbilt).
That said, I know exactly the type of people you are talking about. They were some of the most socially awkward people I have ever met. This was mainly due to their parents super controlling nature, and I honestly feel bad for the years it will take them to adapt to the "real world."
Still, my point is that this group in general is sensitive to stereotypes (ie. "Nerd") and the associated negative social connotations that they hold. Home schoolers are no different. Many may have social issues, but that probably has more to do with the atmosphere they grew up in.
To throw a little extra into the debate. I think that home schooling is a fantastic method for teaching when an appropriate environment is available. From the more focused curriculum , to the individual attention, to the flexibility of schedule it has many advantages. However, I think it is all to commonly used by parents who want to control all aspects of their children's lives. It is most often these people who give the overall system a bad reputation. Still even though we may or may not choose to home school our own kids I will adamantly defend it as a choice for parents.
When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
No-one's mentioned introversion / extroversion yet? Briefly,
75% of people are extroverts. They gain energy from social interaction.
25% of people are introverts. They lose energy from social interaction, but gain energy from solitary cogitation.
75% of intellectuals are introverts, and only 25% are extroverts. This is probably why the 'socialising for nerds' class is necessary.
Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
How about some classes in social interactions for the bullies that used to, well, bully us nerds?
I mean, we, after all, usually end up in jobs that enable us to live on our wage and not social security. I'd guess that money could be spent better...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Make a girl laugh and her brain will release strong pleasure chemicals. The only time I've seen a 'built' man lose a girl is when his competitor, regardless of body shape, kept her laughing.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Can social skills be taught? You're either attractive or you're not. Attractiveness comes from your genes. It's a gift. When you have "good" genes, you are naturally attractive and people want to be around you. If you have nothing good to offer in terms of natural selection and genetic pool improvement, you will not be attractive no matter how hard you try.
Wait, what? Something positive about furries? On the INTERNET? That's a refreshing change of pace! I'm not a furry but I know people who are and I'm kind of tired of them getting shat on as "deviants" or something. All the furries I know are nice people and are disgusted at the gross stereotypes associated with them.
You're confusing two different things. Hygiene and social skills are indeed essential, however, belonging to non-mainstream subcultures is a different phenomenon. There are enough people who get into subcultures such as emo and goth primarily for social reasons (i.e., finding sexual partners). And roleplaying/card gaming probably also count, as long as gender ratios are appropriate; it wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot of sexual liaisons hatched in the spaces between AD&D/Vampire campaigns (or perhaps even WoW, these days). And then there's the "nervert" phenomenon, where those who identify themselves as outside the mainstream are less bound by considerations of mainstream acceptability have more and more kinky sex than the jocks/cheerleaders they are supposed to envy. Which is why you get polyamory, BDSM and other such phenomena happening much more often among "geek" subcultures.
Your argument seems to be a bit like "Why would any guy be gay? You'll never find a girlfriend that way."
Why don't nerds just pick up on other nerds? Seems to work for (jocks, goths, stoners, gear-heads, preppies, band-geeks...) Seriously, If I tried to pick up on some chicks at a Magic tourney, I'd get laughed out of the building (if my nose could handle it long enough to be laughed out). Nerds in large groups are no longer the minority, after all.
Once I realized that everyone is as self-conscious in a gym as I am, it kinda took a large edge of going to it.
I went to Dick's, purchased some decent looking activewear shorts & shirts, a comfortable sets of shoes, and, bam, now I have been going to the gym, losing weight, having a fine time (listening to music you enjoy helps a lot) AND enjoying looking at myself in the mirror (self confidence booster right there!).
Plus I can tell a girl now I go to the gym, which is maybe a dumb thing, but beforehand, not being able to say that or talk about it was a point of intimidation and a point of lack of confidence. Any girl, and I'm not talking just about the superficial bitches, likes a guy that takes care of himself.
By the way, I am not looking to become buff, just to loose some weight and gain some strength and endurance. I already feel better physically. So what's not to like?
I'm sure I'll look better as time progresses, but that's not my main objective. My motivation is to be stronger and have better endurance, so I can do things without running out of breath so fast, etc. For example, I can go hiking with friends and not fall over on my ass everywhere.
I got my music selection down: drum'n'bass for the treadmill, dubstep for the rowing machine.
I took a geek approach to it. Basically, everything I do has some kind of explanation behind it. Nothing is unscientific. Nothing is "oh this is good for you just because."
Cardio? (Running on the treadmill, bike, rowing machine, etc) -- OK, that keeps your heart running at a high rate (the ranges for those rates are all defined and easy to find... I try to keep mine between 155 and 175), so that your body can burn fat. Makes sense.
Weights and crunches? I am lucky to have a gym at work, and the guy that runs it worked with me on a program that exercises all my muscle groups. I can make numerical progress over time (be able to say lift 5 lbs more here). He explained each exercise and which muscle group it works. It all makes sense.
These are all the things that will give you confidence that you were lacking before. If you have never made it to a gym, give it a shot. Go and make that initial purchase of gym clothing & shoes (like I did)--it gave me a mental investment and that initial kick to go (well I just blew $200, I better go now!). Then when you get there, just get on that treadmill and after 5 minutes of easier walking, turn it up and get sweating. Take a hot shower at home afterwards and you'll be coming back for more.
Did you read what that other AC wrote: "That's also why they're so easy to troll."?
He's exactly right. Furries are easy to abuse because they've already been shit on so much that they reflexively adopt the "victim stance" which only invites more abuse.
Furthermore, the internet makes consequence-free abuse merely a click away. As a gay man, I know this quite well. The singlemost effective defense against gay-bashing can be summed up in two words: concealed carry. Unfortunately, that doesn't work so well on the Internet.
Where would one put a Bersa in a fursuit anyway?
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Potsdam University in Germany is now teaching ... skills ... to 'easy entry into ... a supermodel, who will...love...the...student...at the end...on the inside.'
My blog
The way I see it is that this class, while quite silly, really (especially at a masters level - maybe as a highschool option or something), is just another choice in the broad education options available. If people want to learn how to flirt, they can take this class. If they think it is beneath them or that it is unimportant, they can skip it. Same with maths or science.
Neither class is compulsory.
but most people (not just nerds) could learn something in a course like this...
The truth is not just Nerds could use this type of a course, but other people as well.
In my own experience a course like this would have saved me a lot of painful learning after university when I entered the working world.
BTW they teach courses like this in business school too they just call them something fancier like "interpersonal management" instead of "social skills for nerds", and they are very popular courses.
There's interesting evidence to support that IQ is only an indicator of success up to a point. Once you have enough IQ points to make it into university a much stronger indicator of success is your Emotional Intelligence (ability to deal with people).
I used to mock the importance of EI skills (much like many of you posting here) because I didn't understand them myself and how to learn about EI. I was afraid of dealing with people and acknowledging that my EI skills needed improvement (although I didn't admit it to myself at the time).
It's a long road to learn how to behave and practice the skills, and requires a certain mindset. For me I just thought about it as how to "hack humans" (including myself) to get social interactions between me and the rest of the world to work better.
I started to read certain books, and started to acknowledge that if a social interaction didn't work out that maybe I needed to change my behavior (even if its to manage the other persons bad behavior).
Here are just a few books that I found interesting:
"People Watching", Desmond Morris
"How to Talk to Anyone: 92 Little Tricks for Big Success in Relationships", Leil Lowndes
"Emotional Intelligence", Daniel Goleman
"Games People Play: The Basic Handbook of Transactional Analysis", Eric Berne
"Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement without giving in", Roger Fisher and William Ury
There's many more and I cant remember all of them.
Then the other thing I did is to seek out environments where I could experiment by changing my behavior (be careful what you do at work though... it might not be the best place to start).
You can join a public speaking club, or any other social club where you meet normal people, pick something that interests you.
I found keeping a diary about any interactions that went badly was useful. It helped me recognize certain behavioral patterns I got stuck in or when people "pushed my buttons". That helped me understand what I needed to try changing next time.
Note: a lot of the changes I made didn't work, but I learned from them and through trial and error I learned what to do with different people. It's and iterative and often painful process, that you get better at the more you do it (not unlike programming ;) ).
What I've found with the "nerds" that have worked for me is that they fall into two categories (there's definitely not a normal distribution)
1) (about 20-40%) Those that have developed acceptable social skills and Emotional Intelligence to deal with other people and get what they want are usually happier, easier to work with and more likely to get promoted and be successful in their job (and keep their jobs). Often they end up being "translators" and team leads for less adapted individuals.
2) (the balance) those that are missing out on their true potential (often really smart guys) because they cant communicate to get the resources, support they need, or even to explain a good solution to a less technically gifted boss.
Mostly they are frustrated by what they cant do because of "dumb" colleagues or "dumb" bosses.
The reality is if you are smarter than your boss than you can learn the necessary EI on how to interact with him/her to manage the relationship. By getting better at communicating with your boss you can gain influence and get them to do what makes sense and also learn when to respect their answer and accept a "no" without taking it as a personal attack (sometimes th
----- "Profanity is the one language that all programmers understand."
Riddle me this: why is it that if someone has trouble in math or something, other people who can do it will offer to help, but if someone is socially inept, the immediate reaction is to ostracize the person rather than offering to give them social coaching? I have helped people all my life in technical areas where they needed it, but not one time has anyone made any such offer to me.
My theory as to the reason people don't help socially inept people when they do help with topics like maths or history or whatever, is that it is obvious if you don't know that stuff - there is no way or reason to hide your lack of knowledge. However, when it comes to social situations (speaking from my own past experience now), sometimes while one does know the answer, one is too shy or too afraid of mocking to act correctly. Now that I am (somewhat) more socially capable (it took me a while to build up guts etc), I don't help others who are making the same mistakes, as I know that had someone come up to me and told me what to do, I would have felt patronised and even worse than I did already, because I already knew what to do.
The problem here is, of course, what if the person has no idea what to do and would really appreciate the help?
So - nice people don't like to be patronising, and not-nice people don't care. One solution could be to go up to a nice, somewhat nerdy but socially adept person and ask them to help you - they may know what you are going through but didn't want to hurt your feelings...
Yes, social training is a dumb reason to include humanities (who is to say that humanities students are any better?), but there are reasons why it is a good idea to have at least a couple of compulsory humanities papers per science degree. My reason (personal and specific, I know) is that I have a broad range of interests,and, while I wished to develop a career in science and technology, and have a biomedical degree to show for it, I was also very interested in history, languages, and philosophy. In high school, I was unable to take these, as to get into my require course I had to fill my schedule with maths and science. However, my university course required you to take one non-science paper per year for the first two years (sadly limited to choice, however, as there were many clashes between my science classes and the classes I wanted to take). This way I was able to take basic philosophy and swedish, which, while maybe not directly useful to my career, did help develop me as a person, and give me more to think and talk about in depth than just science.
Yeah, let's not be mean to furries. They're going to cease conscious existence when they die just like all other sinners against God anyway, so in the end it's not worth it!
That is right Mods, I am asking you to get off your nice Scooters and do some mod-ing! Ska records and Skanking optional.
There are rungs below furry fandom.
With that said, a lot of furries have codependence/depression issues and will happily dump all of their problems on to anyone who will listen. If said listener happens to have low self-esteem they might think they've found a new "friend" when all they've really found is a new way to sink even farther.
To get better, you don't hang out with people who already feel like you do. You hang out with people you want to be like.
I was wondering if Emos might be lower on the self-esteem scale than furries. The self-mutilation aspect of emo-dom that people cruelly mock is an aspect of borderline behavior disorder that begs treatment -- not mockery, and not indulgence. That said, whom do you think is lower than furries on the self-esteem scale?
The "problem dumping" is what people in tremendous pain do to get attention. It's worked enough times in the past for them to repeat it, and they don't have enough self-esteem to do anything else. Sad, very sad.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
I hear using an abundance of elipsises also helps. I wasn't going to say anything, but after seeing nine periods at the end of your sig...
teaching how to "get someone else's heart beating fast while yours stays calm."
As if nerds weren't already cynical enough.
is there going to be an online version of the course? :)
...it looks like the top brass at this university has watched one "high school stereotypes and cliques" movie too many.
The social world is a biological ladder tournament. Through practice and preparation, you have to put yourself ahead of as much of the competition as possible. Just watch the animal shows on the Discovery channel. We are exactly like them but a little more complicated. We are a herd and you have to fight for your place in it. You have to form a strategy and utilize your time and effort into developing the traits and skill sets that your particular plan will need. You don't have tact? So what? I know a guy who completely lacks it and has tons of friends and get plenty of attention from the opposite sex. He just redirected his effort else where. I also know people that have had similar results completely different approaches. If you are having problems, then you either don't care or can't adapt.
First, cover the basics. Hygiene & basic manners. Get that right and you will be in the top 50% of the competition. If needed get professional help. Salon instead of great clips? Laser hair removal? Spa treatments? Do what it takes to get caught up. Read a book, take a class, or watch a make over show or two if you have to.
Second, get in reasonable shape. Depending on how far you run with it, you can put yourself leaps and bounds ahead of the competition. It just takes time. If it took money, everyone would have it. Go to the closest gym and get a personal trainer. Do whatever they tell you to and stick with it for at least 6 months to a year.
Third, appearance. Looks matter and you have to dress well. Just pic a style and go to the stores that cater to that style and wear whatever the manikins are wearing. Now do it consistently. Its that easy.
If you are half way successful at these three steps you should be ahead of at least 75% of the competition. You can of course keep adding to your social appeal through other talents. Got a little tact? Great, but if not, do something interesting that people can relate to. Preferably, non technical, non science, non school sponsored. Examples - rock climbing, music, art, motorcycles, traveling, skateboarding, gardening, camping, wine, scuba diving, photography, acting, or anything that when you talk about it, people think it sounds fun and interesting. Just pick something.
Do these things and people will come to you. Its that easy if you actually do it but it is a competition and there are always going to be people ahead of you and behind you. You just have to fight for your place. And remember, you have to adapt to the world. It won't do the same for you.
Also, there is a great segment in the movie American Psycho about fitting in.
Hmm, this sounds like Beauty and the Geek.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
So, let me understand this... A group with inferior earning potential (1) will teach a group with superior earning potential (2) how to be more like (1)? Yes, that makes a lot of sense...
Actually in my experience being socially skilled has a much greater impact on having a superior earning potential.
More technically-inclined people are only going to leverage on what they can actually accomplish, and their goal is often to try to "do the right thing", while the socially skilled know which careers to choose and all steps to follow to avoid having to do anything challenging and still gain more value in the company.
They end up earning very good money by claiming some sort of "higher resposibility"; and their career is of course in management.
The better they are at this, the higher they climb. They are the black holes of society's energies.
Being able to work in a group and organize and motivate people should be a valued set of skills that complements an already talented individual, but more often than not, those whose only talent in life is to be a "people person" are actually useless parasites.
I think you're right about most furs having or having had "self-esteem" problems, but the fandom's not a big love-fest, even if about 30% of newbies seem to expect that. We've got splinter groups like every other social group, probably more than average. There's a reason for us being known as the internet drama machine :>
if you lack social skills
The most beautiful, smartest, and the richest are in the medical school, most of them are Indian or Middle Eastern girls, if you can stand their fiery behavior.
New Economic Perspectives
All RTS players out there, I mean C&C, Warcraft (not WoW), Starcraft players etc. Use your skill you learned!
Fight for girls, expel your opposition. Plan a thoughtful campaign. Plan your resource ($$$) carefully, as girls drain these a lot.
Setup a website for the center of action. Invite expert opinion and advisor throughout your love campaign.
Victory is in reach!
New Economic Perspectives
%s/furries/World of Warcraft/gi
Actually furries even a self-esteem ladder that goes lower. For example baby-furs. If you don't know what they are I recommend you do not google it.
> Some of the posts here seem to be unwittingly revealing just how religious right fundamentalist a lot of US HR practice can be.
Fundamentalists are pro-marriage last I checked. These practices, insofar as I have encountered them, are all about avoiding sexual harassment lawsuits and accusations of nepotism or favoritism.
At least blame the right people, rather than the ones you dislike the most.
Also, they're not as widespread as you appear to think. We had a husband & wife working at my workplace a while back, not to mention the couple that married while working there or another couple I don't know what became of (they both left around the same time, I never did find out if they later got married or not).
As far as I know, the only rule at my workplace would be against having your spouse as a direct report. And this is merely to avoid issues like being able to give your spouse a raise or to cause any similar conflict of interest.
A degree of hypocrisy alas though which has been observed many times - funnily enough recently in a Heriot-Watt University study of romantic comedy films. There is an expectation of women being better turned out than men.
Men generally will say "I can't be bothered, I don't want to be judged on how I look" yet place importance on a woman's appearance when considering a partner.
Definitely agreed that perfectly turned out people of either gender are a bit scary to me (how do these people manage it?!) but I can understand the other point of view which says "if you can't be bothered to tidy up/ look nice for a formal / special occasion then does this indicate general slackness /lack of respect".
A cultural issue as much as anything else. It was interesting for me to travel round India as a backpacker and see how western tourists were dressed. A lot of the young alternative sorts thought they were making a real statement about chilling out, going barefoot, growing out dreads, wearing simple clothes til they fell apart. Some Indian folk I spoke to just couldn't understand it, they were asking "what's going on in these people's minds? they are so rich yet they dress like beggars. Have they no respect to turn up to important places dressed like this, or to expect people to take them seriously?" Depends on your viewpoint I think...
You say that, but just try turning up as a skunk. Sure, they say they accept you, but the first time someone startles you, the inevitable happens, someone gets mace^h^h^h^hsprayed, and suddenly you're skunky no-mates...
RoseColor red={0, 0xffff, 0x0000, 0x0000};VioletColour blue={0, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0xffff};find / -name *mybase*|chown you
Man I wish I was him! Imagine having your face in every nerd-related /. story! He must be famous and getting all the chicks and getting laid every night with a different chick!
I'm familiar with baby-furs and plush, both of which I would consider to the be zeta end of furries. I don't consider any of this behavior harmful. Rather, I consider it symptomatic of a destroyed self-esteem. It's a coping mechanism, in other words -- a way for abused people to find *neccessary* companionship in a world that has rejected and despised them for a long, long time.
I think it takes a great deal of maturity to view all of this as a humanitarian cause. The impulse is to mock and humiliate furries, and furries will typically oblige by taking the victim stance. If I hadn't been a member of a church (another love fest) during my no-self-esteem years, then I would have been an furry abuser, or maybe even a furry.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
I'm aware of furry drama. I have a friend who is a furry and he lives communally in an apartment with other furries in which the roommates rotate every three months or so. Drama city, according to him.
There's no reason to put scare quotes on self-esteem. Self-esteem is the value you place on yourself. Having none of it will make you feel worthless, good for nothing, broken, flawed, a drag. People react to that in ways that hurt other people, by either latching on to people and draining them of life, or by becoming a "radical loser" by projecting their feelings of worthlessness onto others.
A high self-esteem, which is to say happiness, is the birthright of every single* human being. If I were to truly express how strongly I felt that, it would split the Earth right in half. Sometimes I think that people with no self-esteem choose to revel in their misery (does "misery loves company" ring true to you?) and I think that's harmful. It is grossly cruel the way people treat furries (and emos).
*Except psychopaths. www.hare.org
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
I'm surprised no one mentioned MIT's long-running "Charm School" designed to teach nerds table manners, basic fashion, and dating tips.
Sounds awful. I'm sharing a flat with another fur since over a year now and, thankfully, there's no furry drama involved and it helped me moving out of my parents house :)
I know what self-esteem stands for, but thanks for summarizing anyway. I put the quotes there out of habit because, back in school, I heard that word way too often. Essentially, if you were a bully you'd get lots and lots of second chances and therapy, but if you were the target of their bullshit, well, you get told that you've got low self-esteem and that's it. That's why I'm still passively-annoyed (heh) when someone mentions self-esteem.
It really isn't that bad, at least for furs. Sure, we get trolled and some people really take that personally, but that's all online. Now, offline, in the real world, it's not that bad really and those who protest furry conventions look way dumber and socially retarded than us. See for yourself:
/b/tards and the like are bellow furries. They act all tough on the 'net, but look at them. Hope that wasn't too much chatter :>
Look at them, all alone in the rain. The dude in the lab coat, head of the convention, later went out to them to have a chat. They were very timid and unable to explain what they were doing (can't find the newspaper article, sadly).
Same folks as above I think
Fail
I don't know, maybe
It's not too much chatter. I didn't know what a "/b/tard" was, or even what 4chan was, until I read your post and performed the obligate googling. So you get +1 Informative in spirit. Additionally, I like you.
Yes, it's a shame the way that self-esteem has been demeaned to the point of mockery. Your eye-rolling at its use is completely understandable. I hope that my sincerity in using it the correct way is recognizable.
I think some /b/tards are at the same level, or below furries. I also think that some of them are psychopaths. I don't consider psychopaths above or below furries -- they belong in jail, not on a scale.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Um, yay ^^
It is, that's why I felt like explaining the quotes at length.
Don't know, to me they seem like internet tough guys and seen-it-alls on steroids, at worst. Pretty harmless in real life in my opinion.
True dat yo! This is why I am 29 and still single. I can't talk to anyone. I am completely socially inept. At least it stops with me. Can never hold a conversation long enough to get to the part where you make kids.
"That's right...I said it."
I started my career as "pure nerd" (3D support engineer in the 80s ...)
Then started to learn social skills without losing knowledge.
Today I work as pre-sales of Video On Demand, travelling all over Europe, meeting people, earning a great salary, married with 2 kids ...
I wish I could have learned social skills at school!