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Another Win For Linux At The Cash Register
Matt Lupfer writes, "According to CNET, MaxSpeed, a
California-based networked cash register manufacturer used at places such as Little Caesars,
Goodyear Tire, CVS Drugstores and Harley-Davidson, will begin moving
its product line to Linux-based systems. [MaxSpeed CEO Wie Ching] says, 'Linux is
the wave of the future. And you can't beat the price.'"
The Sun Ray does something like this (though it doesn't run Linux). Everything is done on the server, but I think the client machines still have video memory and run X. One cool feature is that smart cards are used to manage sessions. You can remove your card, take it to another machine, plug it in and resume where you left off. No client administration/upgrades are ever needed, but you need to make sure the server is *extremely* reliable.
But the US postal service is one of the best in the world, and also among the cheapest. Should I say "least awful" instead of "best"? Maybe so, but if you stop and think (fate forfend!
Let's not even get started on the people there and their violent and emotionally unstable tendencies
Okay, maybe your whole post was intended as a joke
Next week on Slashdot: NAMBLA to switch their databases over to MySQL on Linux!
I submitted that story and it was "declined". Bastards.
Aren't you sick of cash registers crashing? Of getting incorrect prices due to operating system malfunctions? Let's look at a typical scene in a typical retail outlet:
Register lady: Hello, Mr. Malda! Your usual copy of 'Barely Legal', is it?
Starts scanning
Computer screen: Illegal Operation. Application obliterated.
Register lady: What the fuck? Hold on a second, sir.
She reboots
Register lady: Now lemme try again.
Scan's CmdrTaco's favorite mag again
Computer screen: Total charge: 38c
Rob Malda: Wait a second! Your computer is in error! I demand to pay more!
Register lady: Hold on a second, sir...
etc.
Obviously, if they were using Linux, none of these problems would occur. CmdrTaco would be back at home, enjoying the "articles" he enjoys "reading".
LINUX MEANS REVOLUTION!
IT WILL CHANGE EVERTYHING!
With a Beowulf cluster of cash registers!
Has anyone ever had a little ceaser's pizza? Man, they suck ass. Having linux associated with them is a bad thing.
are asleep at the wheel. We did all this five years ago at http://www.viewtouch.com, and we did touchscreens on X terminals with no hardware modifications. And it is as cheap as it ever needs to be. And I don't know what more you could possibly want. And the Linux code is identical to the AIX and SCO code. Need any more clues?
--
--
I wonder if they'll use CVS versions of anything :-)
I thought that Microsofties were tired of astroturf FUDing by now.
Linux's popularity right now doesn't make it suddenly dumb for people to use it.
Oh, and I have to laugh at the vague questioning of linux's security. This is a discussion of CASH REGISTERS, after all. Not even a credit card terminal. Cash registers aren't on the internet, aren't running bind/ftp/http/nsf/smb/whatever, and therefore aren't a "security" worry.
I certainly hope you meant that as a joke, because I read it as one, and loved it. :-)
The U.S. Postal Service? C'mon, couldn't you have gone and picked an organization held in higher regard than the USPS? Like, say, oh I dunno, ValuJet, CyberPromotions, or maybe Juggs Magazine? :)
When's the last time you've heard anyone exalting the USPS for great and efficient service? Never, you say? There's a reason for that: It sucks! (Hmmm, could Linux be the reason? ;) )
Let's not even get started on the people there and their violent and emotionally unstable tendencies, so much so that the term "He's gone postal" is well entrenched in the national lexicon. Who knows, maybe they went to Linux after ESR gave one of his raving gun nut speeches -- "You too can stock your underground bunker to the teeth with guns with all the money you'll save on the price of the OS!" Aha!
Next week on Slashdot: NAMBLA to switch their databases over to MySQL on Linux!
Ahhh, the possibilities abound... :)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Do the words "X terminal" ring any bells?
No, not xterms, but those otherwise dumb terminals that have just enough smarts to do a network boot and run an X server. Been around for years.
-- Alastair
Every cash register running Linux instead of Win98 is $89 (or whatever) less that Microsoft has available to spend on FUD, embracing and extending, or creating new and uglier proprietary formats.
Sounds like a benefit to me.
And as someone else pointed out, it encourages hardware manufacturers to make sure Linux drivers are available.
-- Alastair
I hope this isn't a case of "Oooh, Linux is the current buzzword, lets use it."
I mean I'd hate to see them set everything up and then have an enterprising Linux (cr|h)acker come and point out their mistakes.
What kind of some will they be singing then?
Hey, stop knocking cash machines... I'm rigging mine up to give me some money every time I win another level at XBill.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
ok, not quite the same thing, but everyone else was sharing what various companies are using... I noticed last time i was in Compusa that they are running Java on their registers, but then again each register had a pretty big resemblence to a computer... nothing thin about those clients!
yea, the POS do run win98...
but the back-office some unix, i know because i once saw one reboot after a backup.
if i remenber it said, something like, reading
/lib
/usr
etc...
nmarshall
#include "standard_disclaimer.h"
R.U. SIRIUS: THE ONLY POSSIBLE RESPONSE
nmarshall
The law is that which it boldly asserted and plausibly maintained..
--Colonel Burr 1783
You mean like X-Terminals?
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
If you demand a more gui environment, you could cluster vaxstations (small workstations) together with a mainframe over the network- the mainframe stored all user info/files, with the vaxstation providing processing power.
Note that the "GUI" in this case was "DEC Windows" which is simply X11 running over DECNET.
I might have misunderstood your question, but with a normal Linux machine, you can't have two different users using it at the same time on different monitors with different keyboards. I'm guessing that's what the card does. Probably has some keyboard ports and some kind of display switching.
Probably something like www.sharedware.com, but finally realised that this is a lot easier with an X server than Windows.
If I have a small store, and I needed ONE cash register that could handle everything (sales, inventory, reports, receipts, etc.), and I wanted to spend as little as I could afford, I think A Linux-based Open Source program that could do this would be great.
I know I need the hardware (barcode scanner, printer(s), Cash drawer, etc), but I would like a program that could handle all this kinds of hardware, and of course the software part...
Now, is there any such program for Linux??? Where?
Seeya!
Signatures are supposed to be funny?
Certainly, for the same reason that Microsoft starting giving away it's browser, and the same reason that Intel is giving it's processors away for the X-Box -- mindshare.
:), later on who knows.
This move simply increases the legitimacy of Linux for use in such devices, it's only recently started being about the money. Now when Fred Foobar wants his boss to use Linux for cash registers, there's just one more example he can point to.
Think of it as a few hundred more free advertisements for Linux.
Having it run on cash registers will at first at least get cash register software ported
In short, it certainly doesn't hurt "the cause".
I can't tell you who [If I told you, I'd have to kill you], but we're putting RH 6.0 into 600+ stores throughout the US of A. We're currently in test stage, and expect Alpha to begin sometime in August (note: Alpha was due 3/99).
Oh well.
Um, this article confused me. This company is going to sell a card that will allow two users on a linux machine. Well, last time I checked, you didn't need a card for that. You could use virtual terminals. Oh, if you don't want to use virtual terminals, I wonder if they're selling 10Base-T ethernet cards? I was rather confused by the article, is linux going to be running on some sort of a cash register server?
We've got some of these at UC Berkeley. They're cool, and the idea is great, but the only problem is that administration of the server has to be really, really good.
One or two people with bad code/programs can make everything slow down a bit...
That, and sometimes the damn things don't log out correctly.
it is a nice idea, though...
there is no thing
what else could you want?
"We have no idea how to use Linux or why it's better than the solution we currently use, but it's the wave of the future and everyone else seems to be using it, so why not us! Maybe we'll change our company's name to include 'Linux' and then go public, too!"
You don't hook up fifty keyboards, monitors, and mice directly to one central linux box- that would be unscalable.
You get fifty inexpensive display controllers, and connect them to a network with one or more large servers doing the actual heavy labor.
Check out Sun's solution- The 'Sun Ray' at $499.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
I just turned down a 6-figure job offer from a local company, after I found out that they are converting all of their (perfectly good as they stand) web servers from Solaris on UltraSparc to 'Beowulf Clusters' of (cheap) Intel PC's running 'Linux'.
They aren't doing this for performance, they aren't doing this to save money, they aren't doing this to make administration of the servers (which would be my job) easier...
They are doing this because the company is planning for an IPO, and certain key words give the market a stiffy.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
wow...now if you could only read the damn webpage. Little black fonts on dark blue background. Sure hope the display on those units are easier to read. Of course I am getting older and my eyes are not what they used to be.http://www.viewtouch.com/poshome.html
Anyway, I'll check it out. I've got clients begging for an affordable non-ms solution
Integrity is what you are when nobody is looking.
They were called Vax mainframes.
several hundred users could use the system at once, and although the VMS system was command line driven, the terminals did support graphics, so you could display graphs, pictures, etc... VMS is a very powerfull and full-featured operating system, which resulted in some of the same "too hard to use" complaints you hear about Linux.
Vaxes were also commonly clustered, and from a user point of view would share load. There was no crashing (ok, maybe once a year, or when the operator tried to crash the system on purpose (ps- Dec fired his ass)), no rebooting, and the system was up and on 24/7.
If you demand a more gui environment, you could cluster vaxstations (small workstations) together with a mainframe over the network- the mainframe stored all user info/files, with the vaxstation providing processing power.
Security was reasonably well implemented, with users being protected from each other, as well as the system being protected from the users!
(un)fortunately, vax hardware was built to withstand the rigors of rocket launch. This turned out to be stupid for several reasons-
Most users did not launch their vaxes and so percieved no benefit from the over-design
Hardware was absurdly expensive to build.
Hardware was absurdly expensive to design and to test (get thru the DEC standard 102 tests)
In addition, VMS licensing fees were high, and DEC seemed to discourage 3ed party apps.
Everyone prefered cheap, cheap, cheap, and so the PC, with MS on it, crept from the primeval ooze to the position it occupies today.
Your wallet stays open. Our source remains closed. We are MSFT
[Obligitory DeCSS Comment]
Does this mean you can play DVDs on cash registers now?
[/Obligitory DeCSS Comment]
----
Don't underestimate the power of peanut brittle
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
I know this wasn't meant seriously (at least I hope not!), but I don't want people walking away thinking this. I know some people do. And someone actually modded this up as "interesting" (where clearly "funny" if anything is most appropriate).
The other way around perhaps?
Will I retire or break 10K?
would it be feasble to have hardware to allow 50 keyboards, mice, monitors to be hooked into a Linux server, and have each one be running separately? So there could be 50 users with 50 different displays doing their office or school work.
If you're talking text (good enough for Emacs), simply attach a whole bunch of cheap DOS PCs and monitors to a multiport serial card on the server and use them as dumb terminals.
On the other hand, if you're talking about X, that's a completely different story. Each X display pretty much needs its own computer (however, there can be multiple monitors in one display). Otherwise, how are 50 PCI cards supposed to fit into one box? And think about the CPU power it would need, not to mention heat.
But a whole bunch of cheap X boxes (not the Microsoft X-Box console; I also object to "Mac OS X") just might work.
The only reason I use Windoze is because they pay me.Will I retire or break 10K?
On the other hand, etoy.com runs Apache on Solaris, according to Netcraft.
Will I retire or break 10K?
well, anonymous coward, it means that linux is growing up even more, for us hard-core linux users, this is a big deal.
Guess what distribution they will use? http://www.linuxone.net/news/press/press8.html
But it really isn't that the fact that they were wasn't really that interesting.
Should say: "the fact that they are using isn't really that interesting". I should really lay off the crackpipe....
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
The artical said that they had been using SCO UnixWare, NT was never mentioned. There primary reason for switching was that Linux was "good enough" and really cheap.
I've personaly seen cashregisters running java. There's more to the world then NT/Linux
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
But how is having Linux running on thousands, or even millions of cash registers going to gain market share? Do you think the $5/hr restaurant Jockeys are going to care what OS is running on their cash registers? This is custom hardware running, almost certainly, custom software. The word "Linux" isn't going to be anywhere on the things. In fact, if you read the article, you'll see that Linux in this market competes most directly with SCO UNIX. It doesn?t seem like there "mind share" has really been helping them much.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that 'world domination' for Linux, since it?s a free OS, Is depended only on market share. Using Linux on these machines doesn?t really gain very much Mind share for the community. Aside from press about it, there is hardly any gain. Compare this with something like the quake3 release for Linux, this pushed Linux into the limelight in the eyes of gamers. While the number of people who switched over to Linux because of Quake is going to be far less then the number of Cash registers running Linux, the Quake port gave Linux a lot more mind share.
At this point, what we really need to know is what is the goal of the Linux community I mean, is it to get more apps ported, and running, on Linux? Is it to crush Microsoft? Well, this does neither. No one is going to port their app to Linux just because a bunch of cash registers run it. And, this doesn?t hurt Microsoft in the least. Just SCO. So, what, exactly does Linux stand to gain because of this?
Some mindshare is valuable, some is simply not.
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
I'm more of a supporter of open-drawer cash registers. And no, I don't support the gun and knive hacks many people have resorted to.
Yeah... I read this story off a Linuxtoday link and couldn't make heads or tails of the article.   It doesn't explicitly say that Little Caesars, et al will be running Linux for their POS boxes, it only says that the company who makes the equipment will be moving their stuff to Linux...   And even then, you don't know if they mean new stuff or existing stuff, like what might be in place at a Little Caesars.
Oh well... really a non-story.
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."
The only problem I have with that picture, despite the absolute grotequeness of it, is that if you're trying to insult people, you usually tell them 'hey, shove it up your ass.' Whereas it is clearly intended in this picture for the giver to be saying 'Hey, shove it up MY ass.' While I can think of an extensive catalogue of objects that I'd like to shine up real nice for ya, that isn't the point. Or is it?
And though I go back from time to time and check, I have learned whilst at my place of employment to check the actual URL for every link to make sure I don't display www.goatse.cx on my screen while, for example, my boss is standing behind me. I can only imagine how many of its hits come from clueless visitors to slashdot.
hehehe, Radio Shack used SCO servers and Windows 95 front ends..haha, so you peeps are talking about ctrl alt del. and security...
I don't see how allowing Linux access the antiquated POS (piece of SH*T) POS (Point of Sale) terminals are going to better the Linux movement as a whole. Software to run the POSPOS's will be written yes, so? Will it be open-sourced? Will it be secure? Will cashiers still hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE when there's a line up of 8 people waiting?
"Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
(Who moderated *that* up?) Think of the body of manufacturers whose hardware will be automatically installed in hundreds upon thousands of locations with a single sale. It'll keep the vid card people, the bios people, etc. really motivated to keep in good stead with the community.
Crowbarring all the custom needs of a POS system into a POS (different acronym) operating system is not my idea of fun. I feel sorry for those SASI people. A friend of mine worked there very briefly and he said that it was no picnic there...
Their previous system seemed to be pretty good. It had barcode scanning, and all the other stuff. I see nothing useful in the new system that the old one didn't provide. However, the new system uses a touchscreen for input, and provides feedback with the standard Windows sounds (ding.wav, etc.)
The touchscreen is extremely inconvenient for input, as I was told by a girl who works there. And the sounds... well, I'm sure that you can imagine how it feels to hear that "ding" sound a few thousand times every day.
Anyone know what's going on?
--
The cash register systems at Radio Shack are still Windows based, although I think RS is transitioning their back-office systems. Let's hope these open source cash register systems hit it big, since once the cash registers are on linux, more and more of the back-office systems will be driven to open standard systems, something that Microsoft hasn't been good at retaining control over.
The real coup is if some Linux providers work on some sort of embedded Linux. The efforts made to port Linux to micro-systems like PalmOS should help in this arena. But the idea would be if we could flash Linux entirely to ROM. This would take some market share away from folks like OS9 (not MacOS9!), QNX, etc.
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT d-- a? C++ UX+ L++ P++ E--- W+++$ N++ o-- !K !w O---- M++$ !V PS++
The way I see it, Linux is an operating system with a cool development system
I don't believe that there is a single overriding "goal" that everyone who uses Linux (or even a clear majority) can be said to share. Instead, there are lots of smaller groups within the circle of those who use Linux, who may have some of the goals you mention.
And as for mindshare
You're right, the guy behind the counter probably doesn't care what OS runs his register, but then again, he probably appreciates a system that doesn't crash much.
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I've never seen this on a large scale, but would it be feasble to have hardware to allow 50 keyboards, mice, monitors to be hooked into a Linux server, and have each one be running separately? So there could be 50 users with 50 different displays doing their office or school work.
Obviously, the server would have to be completely massive, which some kind of super video card system (128MBx2 SLI rig?). But it would still be less expensive than buying 50 whole computers, and it would be a ton easier to make upgrades to.
Has anyone done something similar?
Imagine a beowolf cluster of cash registers. You could have multiple people buying things AT THE SAME TIME! Wow!
Why don't you ask ETOYS.COM? They have been running there E-Comerce applications on Linux since day one. Just for starters. Ask Compaq. They only recomend running SAP-R/3 on Linux for Application Servers that support over 1,000 concerent users. Other wise Unix, NT or OS/390 is fine. Just to name two.
The israeli company PointOfSale which produces software for retail shops and likewise, that has been so far exclusively written in M$++ also decided to port its application to Linux. I was there for a job interview and they were offering me to lead the team developing the port (on quite nice conditions BTW). Still porting MFC to gtk wasn't what I wanted so I refused, but it was nice to see another company turning its face towards Linux, as they were realizing (as I was told) it'll be much cheaper for both the company to develop and to shops to buy and maintain a Linux-based system than a MS-based one
-- "If you had fallen into a shit pit during a battle, lick yourself off and move on." - Jaroslav Hasek
, but I don't understand your objection to someone using Linux in this application.
I have no objection to them using it, In fact I said in my inital post that It was great for them. But it really isn't that the fact that they were wasn't really that interesting.
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Ok, so a bunch of Cash registers are running Linux now. Great. Does that help the 'cause' in any way? I mean, its not like RedHat or VA or anyone else is going to be getting money for these things like we would if it was a closed source thing. While I'm sure its great for the company producing these things. It really shouldn't matter to us. At most, we might get a few kernel patches or something out of the programmers there.
If Microsoft or sun got this deal, it would be great for them, it would mean tons of money in licenses. But for us, its nothing.
I think threes a bit more to world domination then simply the raw number of CPUs running Linux. Is having it run on millions of Cash registers going to help get software ported?
Amber Yuan 2k A.D
"and dear god does this website suck now." -- CmdrTaco
Hmm... you posted here too huh?   You certainly are persistent despite the quoting of the Slashdot FAQ.
/. when it is being /.'d let alone to have spam showing up as +1.
Moderators - please moderate the parent down as spam.   It's bad enough getting to
Thank you.
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."
This is a really good thing - I've used Maxspeed (with VM386 multiuser DOS - ok - but the install has been in place 7 years and running strong) and they make fab product. They may not be Big and'Active' but they are responsible and worth a look.
I'd love to use Linux for cash registers, because I'd like to have a point-of-sale system that was cheap...
This all ties back to the I-Opener discussion: why aren't there any super-cheap Linux-based kiosk systems available? Surely there's a market for these!
Like cash registers, ATMs are also just kiosks with a slot. You can just go out and buy an ATM, you know: you're responsible for filling it with money, and it runs software that knows how to authenticate itself to the banks. There's no reason this couldn't be a Linux system too, instead of being overpriced specialized hardware.
There's a big NUMSAUI ("Not Until My Suppliers Are Using It"] problem with any particular operating system, file format, interface, etc.
You still hear lots of "industry analysts" (mind my scare quotes; I know a lot of them are fine, smart people, but it's the bad apples that stand out) that say Linux "isn't ready for the enterprise" or repeat silly FUD about the dangers of fragmentation. (I'm not saying that danger doesn't exist -- only that even legitimate complaints are often applied out of context.)
And it's not just the number of CPUs running it, it's a) public acceptance, or at least that subset of the public which forms opinions about purchasing computers and b) jobs. If there are thoursands of companies using free / Free software to build their apps and run them on, it means a different type of job market than one in which open-source stuff is viewed as a novelty.
And, my favorite is that the more OSes are experimented with, the more incentive people will have to create documents / data sets that aren't tied to only one platform, which should make it easier for programmers to experiment with The Best Way to do things in pragmatic and not only experimental contexts.
Just thoughts,
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I worked at a Little Caesar's. It was a few years ago, but the cash register wasn't anything special. You just had that small screen that displayed the prices. The input? A keypad with many buttons. Althought, we never used half of them. The ones we did use were basically overload by hitting "Large" then "Crazy Bread" or "Small" then "Crazy Bread". With a little practice on the register, you could punch in orders with one hand faster than the receipt could print.
I couldn't find the specs for their cash registers, but I wouldn't want an LCD screen (It'd get oil, flour, or just cracked by a customer) or a computer that required a fan. The (non-computer) fans always had grease in them, clogged them up good.
Even though it was a crappy system, people still had trouble with it (I was always ask to change the printer ribbon).
Maybe they're making it a different design than I'm assuming. Of course, having a Perl script to generate reports on various sales (you have to make reports on how much you sold per hour on average for the last four weeks, and how many of a certain item, such as medium pops, you sold each day). Disclaimer: I worked at an LC inside a K-mart, so the independent LC's may have different tills.
Also, my store couldn't get the damn Icee machine working on a consistent basis (it had a power switch, two defrost knobs (one for each side), and two dispenser levers), do you think they could get a Linux box to work all the time?
---------------------
Do not provoke me to violence for you could no more evade my wrath than you could your own shadow.
And then there's the issue of security. Yeah, the Linux community does a good job of patching bugs and other unintentional errors. But what you really have to be on the look out for now is intentional security violations. Going with an open source operating system is like giving out the keys. Whose to stop someone from passing of a 'trojan' kernel? These registers will be networked, so it's not like they couldn't be broken into. Scary.
;-)
Hmmm... I don't know if I've been sucked in by a troll or perhaps you should be modded up to Funny or whatever... maybe so.   But this is just an fyi anyway to those not knowing or if you are truly sincere:   Did you know that every fscking piece of snail mail that those in the US of A send through the U.S. Postal Service is sorted using a Linux box?
Just responding to your issues with security and not meant to be a flame...
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."