Slashdot Mirror
Fan Fiction Explained
ContinuousPark writes: "Alternative narratives of Star Wars, Star Trek, X-Files, Buffy, Xena, Starsky and Hutch! Whole seasons never filmed can be read on the Web!
The thriving fan-fiction world has been revealed to me in this Slate Magazine article which raises some interesting questions: Who owns the characters? What can be done to them? Who owns the plots if they were posted on some official TV series' Web site? Could I, say, put together a book of these stories, how about a play, a videogame?" The wierdest stuff I've heard is fan fiction writers trying to sue the show when bits of their stories turn up on the show ... I bet someone could write a pretty good generative x-files plot generator to write a few hundred x-files plot synopses, and then just wait until their big chance to score :)
Fan fiction is usually poor i find. I think that surely only the owners of the characters can make money off them but anyone can do anything with them.
Well I know the shows producers would own the characters, and possibly parts of the theme of the show, like locations, if they were fictional (like Springfield in The Simpsons)
Plots I'm not as sure as, espically if someone wrote a story using characters I own. Does the author still have a right to the plot even if it was written using unauthorized characters.
I'd say fan fiction has it's good times. The only problem I can see is that of "semiserious" writers that are only doing it for the art of sueing. I think there were someone that sued a fan fiction writer for writing "disgusting fiction", if someone has a link or something I'd be really happy.
It would be nice if some of the fan fiction out there were acctually filmed at some point. I've read a few really good SW writings.
Anyway, these are my opinions. Just as faulty as anybody elses.
Well, If we see natalie portman pour grits down her pants in "Star Wars Episode II" /. has a case for prior art. ;)
Remember folks, you heard it here on /. first.
___
I see fanfic as the reverse of Disneyfication: The Great Banal Mouse likes to take common folktales and appropriate the characters. (Go ahead, just try to make an animated movie about Snow White or Sleeping Beauty or Aladdin. These were part of the culture long before The Great Banal Mouse seized them.) Disney takes what is common property and fences it off as its own.
Fanfic does the opposite. It liberates fenced-off IP, moving characters and settings out of the realm of the few and into the hands of the society at large. Sure, most fanfic -- way more than Sturgeon's famous 90% -- is crap. But some are gems, and all of it is meaningful, to the author if no one else. People might be hackney writers, but they aren't hack writers. As such, the characters are freed from their status as a revenue source. Fanfic authors, in general, don't expect recompense, at least not in money.
In this gruesome, corporate, consumerist world, there's something beautiful about that.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
I hat the facist way that the TV studios attack people who are just trying to enjoy the show. If I have some Simpson's sounds/ pictures on my web site, I'm not hurting anyone!
In fact, I'm making the show more popular. I don't make money of of the stuff - it just hypes the show. It's the same way with fan fiction.
Add to that the fact that the actual scripts aren't very impressive. Taco might have been jokin, but you literally could write an xfiles plot generator.
shhh... I'll give you the secret xfiles formula!
monster commits a crime/murder. scully and mulder argue about coming to investigate. they come anyway. someone gets killed again. they argue about whether it was a monster or a person. before the next person gets killed, they figure it out and save them. the details of the monster are vague. it could go either way.
it's a really stupid formula. a couple times a year, they actually show the interesting government conspiracy plot. it's like two different shows - carter blew it.
-------
Do you want to get two funny, free jokes in your email every day, without ads? Send a message to subscribe@63.225.139.3 with the subject: subscribe joke
-------
No comment at this time
Of course, I'm not addressing the fan fiction issue at all.
Fan fiction is a good thing for a bunch of reasons:
1. It makes fans happy.
2. It creates more art in the world, even if 90% of it is destined by Sturgeon's Law to be crud.
3. It allows budding writers a chance to practice their craft.
Any writer who gets mad at someone using their characters is very insecure. If you're really a good author, you won't be worried about some random person writing something with your characters - you'll just do what you want and move on.
Likewise, fan authors who get pissed at the original authors using ideas that they thoguht of should be ashamed of themselves! They're benefiting from sharing, so the author should to. To make an (probably poor inappropriate) analogy, it is like proprietary developers who get pissed that they can't refuse to share GPL'd code.
Become a FSF associate member before the low #s are used
fan fiction? star trek? reminds me of the following scene in one episode (fan fiction, of course) Worf: "Captain, the Borgs activate their weapons!" Picard: "Fire at will!" (Worf takes his phaser and blasts Commander Riker into oblivion) Worf: "What was that for, Captain?"
You cannot just write a book or story containing the characters from the series. All of the names of the primary cast, as well as most of the regulars, have been carefully trademarked.
Even if you were to write fan art without any of the existing characters, you'd still build upon the (copyrighted) works and pre-established (and often copyrighted) events that shaped the universe in which your saga takes place. Your work can never be truly original and will therefore always be derivative.
Of course, "Beam me up Scotty" is common speech now, but AFAIK there are trademarks on "Make it so!", "Captain Picard", etc etc.
When it comes to Paramount taken your cozy Star Trek idea and implementing it.. since your work is derived from theirs, they would have a proper claim on most of the copyrights, especially since: a) when you submit it to them personally, you probably encountered one of the many statements that say "we don't take scripts, but if we do, you grant us all rights" or b) they take it from your website, which means you published a work that infrings on their original copyright of the Trek saga.
Just because copyright enforcement is not always that easy on the Internet and often bad publicity (hence the countless fan sites), doesn't mean the copyright doesn't exist.
Noone will sue your favourite Linux distribution for including a few Star Trek fortunes. If I were to OCR the "Star Trek: Quotable" book and publish it as fortune file though, I *would* probably get in trouble.
This all really isn't that hard. Of course you can write a story using the characters of a popular TV series / movie. But, if you try an publish that story, then you are likely infringing on certain trademarks owned by the production company. For example, Star Wars is a trademark. So, if I wrote a story based on Star Wars, I couldn't sell it, or make it into a video game, unless I first licensed the Star Wars trademark. Also, the character, say Donald Duck, may be copyrighted. So, again, it is protected. Now, if the company didn't bother to use intellectual property protections, well too bad. I can make my video game and print my book unencumbered. Its all pretty straight forward.
Most fan fiction isn't at all good, because fans tend to be a. misinformed and b. liable to change delicate stories, exaggerate, be unclear, etc. (Stories that proclaim Kirk's love to Uhura, etc.) Some fan fiction, though, can be very good. If you're a trekkie, check out the strange new worlds series, where authors sift through thousands of entries and give you their favorites.
-----
Score 3? For what? Being wrong, at length? - smirkleton
I've got alot of background dealing with copyright and storyline use, but, IANAL, so consult one if you need official advice.
Fan Fiction fits the definition of "derivative work" in copyright law almost to a T. Despite what the article says, it's pretty clear that all fan fiction (by definition, almost) uses the settings, characters, and plot histories of copyrighted works. I don't care if they go into places that the original never imagined. In fact, that's irrelevant. What is relevant (in the eyes of the courts) is that you are using a well-known character, with defined background and references, that is owned by someone else. Sorry, but that's a derivative work, period. Honestly, I can't see that Fair Use comes into this at all - I think that the studios have a solid claim that "publishing" on the Internet is well beyond the scope of Fair Use, and thus, any protections thereunder are void (the fact that people are making no profit off it is immaterial).
The thing here that studios are afraid of, is that derived works are a two-way street. That is, the new author has to get permission to use the original work in order to publish, but that doesn't mean that the original author owns the new work. What the studios are afraid of in this scenario is that their scriptwriters accidently (or maybe not-so-accidently) use a plot identical to one found in a fanfic story. Oops! Now, the fanfic writer has ownership of that, and you get into some nasty situations.
Basically, I don't have much of a problem with the copyright owners policing their fanfic followers. They are well within their rights to do such, and in fact, it's probably really necessary to protect the integrity of their original works. However, the manner in which some do this is far too heavy-handed, as fanfic is beneficial to the original author. It's a fine line, but, in my opinion, one which the original author has all the right to determine where it should be drawn w/r/t his or her works.
Think of it this way: suppose I write code that I decide to GPL (for whatever reason). Giving fanfic true, unencumbered legal status would be about the same as letting recipients of my GPL code use it in their product, and change the license to something they wanted instead. ( I know this isn't a perfect example, but you're all smart - get the analogy?)
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
Yes, many slashdotters wonder who owns and what you can do to Xena. :P
Mike Roberto (roberto@soul.apk.net) - AOL IM: MicroBerto
Berto
On the other hand, the copyright holders know that fanfic is inevitable for anything with a fan base. To stop fanfiction save in the case of misrepresting *childrens characters* would be the same as trying to stop kids from making up their own stories to use when they play with GI Joe or Transformers. As the article states, most fanfic authors are not in it for the money, they are trying to improve their writing and get commentary back. So as long as fanfic people do not put their work as 'official' or benefit any more from it, I see no reason for copyright holders to get involved.
That said, there are a few isolated cases of fanfic that crosses these rules. Obviously some ametures try to make money off the fanfic, which is in poor taste. Some go beyond reasonable: sure, a slash Buffy fic might not appeal to everyone, but its still considered fair use, but on the other hand, if one used the fanfic to slander and libel the producers, there's call for action.
While lawsuits regarding the MPAA and RIAA and Am. Broadcasters Assoc, and a whole bunch of other people that feel they are in charge of lawsuits, fanfic have been skimming underneath all this trouble. It would be helpful or potentally problematic to have a once-and-for-all legal ruling on fanfic, but the risk is high; fanfic protection is not 100% guarenteed.
Hopefully, the IP producers will release that fanfic is not losing their business and in fact can help it, and thus continue to encourage it. Some go a bit too far; the starwars.com site mentioned in the article, as well as WB's Acme City; post your fanfic and it becomes their. Sure, they encourage it, but you lose all their work for it. I certainly don't hope that the IPs don't try to push the model that fanfic is only valid if it is off their site (and therefore their property).
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
While I'm not a big fan fiction booster, I see the draw of it.
How many Star Trek fans long for 20 minute sequences of starship combat? The shows tend to stay away from this, but the fans crave more and more of it.
The basic concept of fan fiction does find some respect in publishing circles. For example, look at the Man/Kzinti War series. The orginal concept of Man/Kzinti wars was written by Larry Niven. The eight volume series of books written by other authors based on Niven's concepts are popular with Niven fans.
Personally I love some Heinlein fan fiction. John Barnes is the second coming of Heinlein, but he lacks Heinlein's military perspective.
-----
nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
Is it true that Fox went after Buffy sites or are they just confused? I thought Buffy was owned by Warner Brothers.
First segment--introduction to new world or life form. Crew displays initial horror at new culture.
Second segment--get review of Star Trek equipment and personnell--Hah, let's go down to Engineering and see Scotty. I wonder if that ol' bastard will ever go out of fashion.
Third segment--"what's that on the screen, Captain, it appears to be a Giant Plot Complication, and it's headed our way."
Fourth segment--$spacecraft gets nearly destroyed y GPC and crew figures out why this GPC is different from all other GPC. I believe, however, that all GPC's are the same, just with a different look on the outside. Maybe they use a GPC skins repository and just change them for each show.
Fifth segment--the 7th person on the landing party gets eaten by the GPC. Hint--he's the new guy introduced in segment 2.
Sixth segment--somebody at the last second pulls a fix-all out of their backpack/posterior and neutralizes the GPC. Hint--he's one of the regular characters that we spent an unusual amount of time checking into in segment 2.
seventh segment--weak crew members say goodbye, and our anti-climax procedes. We say goodbye to new life form/world and get a good Space Stillshot as the $spacecraft pulls away to wander yet again.
Eigth segment--buy our merchandise. Get a model of $spacecraft. Go to a convention. Spend money buying uniforms and makeup special effects to make you look like a new life form.
Hey, if my non-writing ass can come up with the formula, anybody can write their own Trek-derivative story. Go for it. Make lots of money.
I do what the voices on my console tell me to do.
I did a quick search and came up with an X-Files Erotica page, although there aren't a ton of stories. I also found an X-Files choose your own adventure story (here's another).
-- Diana Hsieh
-- Diana Hsieh
GeekPress: The Weirder Side of Tech News
So I guess that answers that question, at least from a legal standpoint. I know Paramount has gone after people writing porno stories about Counselor Troi getting raped and stuff like that, but I would imagine they don't want to stifle independent stuff too much because it's what keeps the "legend" alive.
__________________________________________________ ___
rooooar
Starsky and Hutch! ???
That's scary.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
From id software: Slashdot: CmdrTaco's Revenge Feel the excitement as you take the role of CmdrTaco as he goes berserk with an assault rifle, hunting down people who e-mail him about the stock market. Co-starring Gabriel and Tycho of Penny-Arcade, and Natalie Portman. (I'm being sarcastic! Not a troll!)
Got Rhinos?
The production company owns the characters in virtually all of these arrangements. That's why you can NOT go and produce a "Simpsons" movie without Fox's permission, and you can't write (duh) a Star Trek movie without Paramount's permission. Same goes for a video game, etc.
Posters talk about how...as the phenomenon of a particular movie grows, it's ownership rights expand to include that of the public. I'm not so certain this can be entirely true. Because the Toyota Camry is the most popular selling car in america...does that devalue the trademark on it? Certainly not. Works written by Shakespeare and Voltaire have become public domain because they have been around for so long. Public domain doesn't happen over the course of a few decades, It happens over the course of centuries. Believe me: if you try to write a story about the new adventures of Holden Caulfield - J.D. Salenger is still going to put the smackdown on that ass - (ebonically speaking)
While it may be unfortunate (this is more of a moral/ethical issue) that the popularity of a product has nothing to do with the rights of the author, it is nevertheless the case. If I write a song, or a book that becomes so popular as to inspire a new genre of film or literature or whatever else. It is still a fact that i own that book. The rights to it are mine and it is through my own benevolence that i lease artistic license to any other individual wishing to use that art in some other fashion.
What i'm trying to say here is that, while indeed it is good that we have hundreds of Star Trek or Star Wars based books to choose from, even socially beneficial, it does not decrease the rights of the original authors. Those books are allowed to be published and reproduced because the creators were "nice", so to speak. I believe that if they allow you to make money off of that fact, then it is a mutually beneficial situation. If they DON'T allow you to make money off of the creation of something based on their work...I'm sorry, but you don't have a legal leg to stand on. - If you recreate a novel based on the characters created and trademarked by Gene Rodenberry and try to sell it without express written permission of [his wife now i guess?] - then we're honestly talking about trademark infringement. You may argue that it should be otherwise, that everyone's creations should be public domain, etc. etc. - well then you're living in the wrong country...the wrong planet for that matter. It's capitalism, and it's going to be around for a while.
FluX
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
Pick user name:
Siggnal 11 is a good one.
Read lameass story posted on Sunday nite. Post redundant comment closely based on previous, +2 comment.
Fill it with the stupidest, most pedantic and moronic comments possible. Use plenty of abbreviations.
Wait until stupid ass post is moderated up as funny.
That was, unquestionably, the most respectful coverage of a subculture I have ever seen in popular media. It was also thereby the most interesting and informative.
I'm not a fanfic writer, but I do belong to other subcultures (even in addition to being a geek). Even self-portrayed "enlightend" media such as salon.com don't seem to be able to transend the urge to present subcultures as consisting as freaks and feebles. I am astonished and delighted they managed to write that piece without a sneer, a wink or a nudge.
Kudos to Slate. salon.com should take note.
----------------------------------------------
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
Yes, legally the characters are the IP of their creators or the studios if their creators either sold the IP or created it while under contract to a studio. However, non-commercial use of intellectual property is protected by fair use doctrine, and fan fiction is all done by amateurs. While, as the article points out, no court has ever addressed the issue of fan fiction using characters who are the intellectual property of others, even a very clueless judge would uphold the right of a private citizen to write a story about a character and distribute it non-commercially.
:-o "That 70s Blow" anyone, or "The Secret Sex Life of Alex Mack"? Okay, so it gets lonely here at my workstation... hehe...
It's not just about fair-use doctrine, it's also a first-amendment matter--a very valid point could be made that the right of free speech outweighs intellectual property claims in such cases, and that fan fiction is protected speech. This at first might seem quite odd, but look at it this way: much of fan fiction is artistic or even political in nature, and hence protected speech. Just look at the "slash" genre mentioned in the article--it could be argued that portraying well-known fictional characters as gay is a form of political, pro-gay-rights speech. If the use of someone else's character is "fair" use, then there isn't even an issue here.
Even if a very clueless court decided that using someone else's character doesn't fall under "fair use," it could perhaps be argued on more general principles that such use is legally protected: the entire system of copyright and intellectual property is founded on one simple notion, that copyright law exists to "promote the advancement of arts and sciences." That's not an exact quote, but language to that effect exists in the language of the Constitution when it refers to the right of Congress to grant exclusive rights to certain works to their creators. Therefore, if use of a character in fan fiction is promoting the creation of new "literature"--and rest assured many intellectuals would refer to fan fiction as a sort of populist literature--then it would go against the very spirit of IP law to forbid the practice.
On a personal note, I love fan fiction. There's nothing like going to alt.sex.stories and reading stuff like "7th Heaven's First Orgy" or "A Very Brady Gangbang," or my personal favorite, "Star Trek: Deep Space 69."
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
There's a lot of bullshit happening here.
No, these characters are not "in the public domain" because stuff involving them was sold. If someone were to take gcc, and start violating the license agreement and sell it, you'd be pissed, but the same argument you use to give yourself "rights" to Captain Kirk gives the hypothetical abuser that right.
It's not fair use. It's a copyright violation, and it's rude.
It's not "free advertising". It's theft.
Now, if you don't mind that, go ahead and write fanfic, and you're probably not gonna get sued. But don't pretend it's legal. It's one of the most disgusting things the fan community does; do something authors have asked you not to do, and invent new legal ideas to justify it, because the existing ones don't work.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Heh, this month's Brill's Content had an article on the phenomenon, specifically how female writers were approaching it, complete with an illustration of Spock and Kirk making out. <SHUDDER> I haven't read it yet, so I don't know if it's an entertaining read or not, but it's on their web site here (http://www.brillscontent.com/features/slash_0500. html).
I write fanfic based on comics, mostly Batman and his family, and I've even had some people say they like my writing. My view on the copyright issue is that why would DC comics want to stop me when my writing might get someone interested in Batman or Nightwing or any of the other characters I write about enough to actually pick up the comics that these characters legally appear in? PS. If anyone wants to check out my writings, they can be found on my homepage.
is absolutely the most asinine thing I have read all day. The only intelligent people on slashdot are the ones who do not post?
I think your post just proved him right.
Why don't we disable the message boards then?
Because, I wouldn't get my cheap thrills watching idiots like you put their foots in their mouths.
"Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
Does this article remind anyone else of a very similar one in May's Brill's Content?
Anne Rice, for example. I find her works to be incredibly moving, the characters wonderfully broad, and so on. She recently posted a comment about fan fiction to her site (www.annerice.com):
To Anne, her characters are a part of herself. For someone that's not her to write situations and events involving those characters that for all we know may completely destroy the chracterization set up for them is almost like abuse.Are they going to come after you with a team of lawyers if you write something using the characters? Maybe, maybe not. I'd hope so.
Would you disappoint, dismay, and disturb the author you're supposedly paying homage to with your ripoff? Almost certainly.
It's really not that difficult to make up your own characters within the genre, if you really want to write fan fiction. It allows for far more breadth and development...you can choose where the path leads, not someone else.
Sometimes the debate is more than just laws. Sometimes you have to consider the people who poured their souls into their characters...and how the person might be affected.
--Tsu
--- Now, go away 'cuz you all up in my Kool-Aid!
My examples are going to be from anime/manga, that's what I know...
Not all companies out there take a dim view of fanfiction. How many of you out there are familiar with doujinshi (sp?), the fanfic comic zines put out by comics/animation fans in Japan? They're considered free promotion and a breeding ground for new talent (e.g. CLAMP, who since created X, Rayearth, and CardCaptor Sakura - coming soon to a TV set near you! - etc.). They're left alone by the lawyers there, and if anything are considered an art form of themselves and a natural part of the scene. The mags that cover the comics industry devote pages to doujinshi, and even allow advertising for them. I wish the North American entertainment industry was that far-sighted. I have no doubt that the popularity of Sailor Moon here, or many other anime series, has far more to do with fanfiction and fan websites than any promotional efforts on the part of the show's producers.
Meanwhile, if North American companies had any idea what kind of shenanigans happened in some of those fan comics with characters from Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball, etc. they'd have a coronary. But the companies can't launch a lawsuit on someone here who makes or distributes such naughty stuff without acknowledging publically that, yes, Pokémon porn does exist (*shudder*).
There's also the issue that many of the writers are minors, and the stuff they write is an extension of outgrown make-believe play, crossed with adolescent fantasies. (The Sailor Moon cast has assembled a frightening number of Sailor Suns, Sailor Earths, and magical boyfriends of American extraction) Isn't this what they want kids to do - to get caught up in the characters and make their own stories? Didn't we all write Transformers or She-ra or such stories when we were 7?
Yes, the companies own the characters. But while they have every right to tightly control the characters' images in merchandise and in canon, I think that trying to restrict people's imaginations to non-distributed media is pretty self-damaging, and practically impossible to boot.
... so I could ask:
:)
<i>"Does anybody know what happened to the tv-series Nowhere Man?"</i>
And does anybody have scripts to stuff after they finished making the movie? I think it was an incredible series (in the style of The Fugative) - I didn't see it all because it got axed from production just when it was getting really amazingly good (he was beginning to work out who he was..)
Is there any good fan fiction on it? Pllleaaase answer me back on this!
Believe with me, my saplings.
I've been writing fan fic for several months now (f/f slash, mostly), and I've never seen a writer who fails to put the "Disclaimer" at the beginning of their fics. I've seen some cuss-out the producers while doing so, but they all seem to do it. :)
Also, most producers and writers of TV shows refuse, for legal reasons, to read fan fiction. Steven Sears, ex-writer and Co-Producer of Xena, was asked consistently at conventions whether he read fan fic, and his answer was always that he wouldn't, because he wanted to play things completely above-board.
-- "God, Root, what is difference?" - Pitr, "User Friendly"
I am a long time fan of role playing games. These games are well known among the geeks of the world, and the sole purpous of this type of merchandise is to make up stories, share them with friends and live out adventures vicariously through imaginary characters. If I were to post my adventures of say Star Wars, I would in fact being gift wrapping what I have already achieved via long hours of game play. Some of these adventures are worth a read... Why can't I share then what Lucasfilm for example has authorized for sale? I am not speaking about making money off of my writings, only the sharing of knowledge, adventures and memories of some well loved characters... I say relax almighty rich ones... leave us to our fun. We make you more money because of it.
The majority of fan fic's are REALLY bad, especially for the true fan that reads some crap that a stupid little kid wants to happen (half of the stuff out there is based around character releationships that would NEVER happen in the "real" show).
/. right now, maybe you should try some real anime, and step up to Evangelion. It is without a doubt the BEST thing I have ever seen. I am not a big anime fan, but this is one of the greatest things I have ever seen, animated or otherwise.
Only once have I ever found a fan fic to be so well done that it deserves to be read: Neon Genesis Evangelion: R. Anyone who has ever seen Evangelion would know how deep the show goes, yet Eva:R manages to hold the quality up to a standard comparable to the originals.
While I rant Eva: With all the Dragon Ball Z stuff going around here at
Do yourselves all a favor and check it out.
http://www.eva-r.com
:)
Hey, I only just got up
Imagine you were an author.. you work for a couple of years on your 'Great American Novel' (TM). You pour your blood, sweat, and tears into characters that become like members of your family.
Your characters take on aspects of yourself, your life, your experiences. Maybe one of your characters faces a life crisis that matches one of your own. You work through your turmoil by writing for the character.
Imagine that you grow as you write this character. He becomes so fleshed out, so real, that you can see your emotional development mirrored in his..
Imagine how it must feel when someone takes your character and puts him into a situation anathema to you.. guess what, your character was actually gay, and has wild, anonymous sex in bath-house orgies. Or maybe he is actually an axe-murder- a psychopath with homicidal tendencies, standing knee-deep in the blood of children.
Or he's actually a fundamentalist preacher on the side, baptising sinners in the blood of the fold. Or he's a republican. Whatever.
What a horror it must be to imagine a person that you identify with defamed in such a way. What a travesty!
What right does someone have to toy with the work that you have done, to define this character. You are in the mind of the character. Part of this character _IS_ you. You are the _ONLY_ person qualified to say 'He would do this.', or 'He wouldn't do that.'
It's unthinkable to most authors to see other people take what they have worked so hard on, and turn it 180 degrees.
One other note.. If you create your setting, and it is not based on reality, it cannot be used by another author without permission. Therefore, you could write a story set in the same area as Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire (so long as you don't use her characters), but you couldn't write a story about Starfleet, or the United Federation of Planets.
a Beowulf cluster of these...mmmmm...
Yah know, I've always thought it would be justice if BBC sued Paramount's balls off for that.
Jellybaby?
----------------------------------------------
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
My best friend is in the process of writing quite a long fanfic (almost a novel) set in the DBZ universe. I do not consider her to be a felon or white-collar thief. On the contrary!
I had not seen any DBZ (or other, deeper anime) before I started reading her manuscripts. Now I'm one of those people who goes around looking for good anime (my parents think I'm wierd for watching dubbed or subtitled Japanese cartoons, but they're old school).
I see this as a very similar situation to the Fan Nazis (or is this now Sienfeld fanfic?) from Paramount. If you can't live with your fans, you sure as h-e-double-hockey-sticks can't live without them. JMS of B5 fame explained this to his suits at WB, and as a result, there has been a tremndous level of grassroots support for all things B5. I mean, how many spinoff games can you name that people have created a game studio themselves to try to save from oblivion? Probably just one (if you have heard the latest on B5: Into the Fire).
(Incidentally, JMS stayed/stays? in rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated to keep away from any fanfic in the non-moderated newsgroup; that way their could be no question that he did not pull from fanfic stories. It seemed to be a good plan, and I dare say it worked wonderfully.)
Sure, there will be abuses, and if something gets out of hand, a company may sue, but by no means should a company take the Paramount-style "kill all supporters" route. I find it difficult to believe that someone is going to read a bad Voyager fanfic and stop watching the show because of it (some would say that if that were the case, the show would have alienated its entire viewership already, and without fan intervention).
Basically, we're stuck with yet another instance of the same dilemma -- plagiarism versus fair use -- where do you draw that line? Open source/free software people tend to side strongly to fair use, usually with the stipulation of giving credit; closed source people tend toward considering fair use nonexistent (lumping it all with plagiarism and theft). Somewhere a balance exists (the LGPL and BSD licenses being evidence of the fact that a balance likely does exist); with luck we may find it before the closed people start burning O'Reilly books.
no text
-- Liquor up front, poker in the rear.
At least for TV. Star Trek fans have been writting this stuff for a long time, and some of the, like David Gerrold, have had the show produce them. Do a bit of research into it, and you will see this has been a long-time phenomena. I have FanFic going back to the '70s, others I know have it back to the '60s while the show was still being produced. It is part of what held together Star Trek Fandom before the Second Comming (AKA Star Trek: The Motionless Picture).
The only time that Paramount has been real iffy about FanFic is the whole Kirk/Spock (now known as "Slash") fiction. I'm not sure about it myself, but if it turns your crank, and no one gets hurt, it is O.K.
ttyl
Farrell
Science Fiction and STrek fan
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Quantum Leap was banal? Sure banal describes every Scott Bakula movie I've ever heard of, but Quantum Leap was a great show. I can even see how its episodic nature particularly lends itself to fanfics (even though personally I think fanfics are lame as hell).
I mean what other show has a holographic quasi-angelic lecherous former-Vietman-POW, who's constantly yelling at a sentient computer named Ziggy?
Http://www.eyrie.net A mix of Anime, X-com and American College life.
please excuse the spelling and grammer if i were to spend the time correcting it i'd never write anything at all.
- Better to speak your mind than to remain silent, or someone may speak for you.
After reading about the 'Slash' variety of Fanfic I'm starting to view slashdot in a whole new way.
However, way back when the world was young and dinosaurs roamed the earth, I ran a Catalog site that linked to numerous story site, including fanfic, and looked up quite a bit of the law on fanfic and copyright protection.
It's interesting, and mostly precedent rather than law, which is one reason why studio are cautious about going to court on fanfic - there are precedents either way. However, most precedents that I found when researching actually err in favor of the public.
Just a few highpoints - Plots cannot be copyrighted or trademarked. Even if Shakespeares works were still under copyright today, the play West Side Story, while an obvious updating mof Tomeo and Juliet, is an original work, not a derivitive work.
Characters and names are trickier. You can't copyright a name, or even a title (The words 'Star Trek' are not covered by copyright for instance), however you can trademark them. However Trademark law is much looser than copyright law in what you can do with a trademark, so long as your not devalueing or dissipating the trademark. I can use a trademark in a story if it's either A- obvious that I'm not talking about the trademarked product (N/A to fanfic), say I'm talking about the 'Star Wars' Satellite Defense System from the 1980's - I don't even need a discaimer . . . or B- I'm using the trademark in an obviously non-competitive manner that doesn't devalue the trademark. This is why fanfic is normally found to be okay - it can't be considered to dilute or devalue the trademarks.
Unfortunately, as is SOP in this stuff, a studio can afford to harass people with threats, even when they have no real likelihood of winning, and there are precedents on both side, so even then, it's always iffy. I also have no idea how the DMCA affects things, but I doubt it's a good effect. I'm also putting stuff out from when *I* got interested, several years ago. IANAL, I could be misremembering, or even just plain wrong.
trademark law: an overview
World Intellectual Property Organization
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
What brilliant logic you use! /.ers rarely post. Something to do with "people who are thought of as fools shouldn't open their mouths to remove any doubt".
<br><br>
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. I haven't seen *you* use logic to defend *your* viewpoint, so I just figured I wouldn't waste the time/thought.
<br><br>
However, you have asked for my reasoning, so I will give it. Just to show you *one* of us can be logical.
<br><br>
My point is that you simply said that the sig was asinine. No reasons *why* they/you thought it was asinine, no logic behind the accusation; the sig was asinine.
<br><br>
Therefore, your response to his sig, was in fact, asinine. You didn't/couldn't defend your point, and therefore you proved his point: the smartest
<br><br>
Of course, this is the same accusation you level at me: I didn't show my reasoning. And by not showing my reasoning (just like *you* didn't), *I* have proved his sig true. Just like you have.
<br><br>
The difference now being I have shown my reasoning. You haven't.
<br><br>
And, please, close your mouth.
"Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
Why would they have to use it in an episode to trademark it?
I guess Troops could be considered fan fic, and that's damn cool.
I thought troops was a parody - a totally different animal, legally.
I would guess that the reason they only asked for the removal of the transcripts is because they are copyright material (in effect the script of the show) and as such can be tightly controlled. This is also the reason they can ask for the removal of copyright images from the shows as well.
In terms of fan fiction it is only the trademark rules that could be used and unless there is money being made or the mark is being diluted etc. there is no easy way to demand that it be removed as the copyright actually resides with the fan writers. They cannot however exploit it financially without permission from the trademark owners.
The standard disclaimer you mention actually specifically prevents what they have done from being interpreted as an attempt to gain some right to the marks in question. If this were not there then the lawyers would have a case for demanding either the removal of the material or obtaining such an undertaking.
Gamma Testing - Where testing is extended to the full user community (AKA Shipping the Program)
The legalities of fan fiction are highly dubious, but fortunately most of the copyright owners are clever enough to realise it's actually promoting their product rather than doing it any harm.
We do fan audio stories of Doctor Who at floorten.com, but have had more trouble from other fans than we have from the BBC! Actually the BBC producer bought one of our CDs!
Quite curiously we did post another group's audio stories on the web once without their permission, which they weren't too happy about - but nettiquette aside, it does pose the greater question - can fanfic productions claim any kind of copyright protection? I'm of the opinion that it hypocrasy to complain when your copyright is violated when your story already violates many copyrights and trademarks itself... but then I'm just an old GPL socialist at heart!
Anyway - stop by and have a listen to our stories. Love to hear what you all think of them!
Howard,
floorten.com.
It was used in the cartoon series allegedly. Paramount has copyright on that.
For a more 'media studies' approach, including some interesting ideas about why fan fiction tends to find/create sexual tension between TV-show duos like Kirk&Spock or Starksy&Hutch: Textual Poachers (Television Fans & Participatory Culture) by Henry Jenkins. ISBN: 0415905729
Both make very interesting reading for people involved in fan-fiction or media fandom.
ai731
--
"I use the words you taught me. If they don't mean anything any more, teach me others. Or let me be silent"
>It was used in the cartoon series allegedly. Paramount has copyright
on that.
Doesn't matter. The tagline was in use by Trek Fandom long before the cartoon series was created.
(typo)
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Generally, it's always good to remember that concepts of copyright and intellectual property are actually quite recent innovations. I can't imagine Romanian troubadours seeking financial indemnity against Russian storytellers for coming up with different Dracula variations, for example. I have little sympathy for anyone whining about the inviolable integrity of their precious "intellectual property" when it comes to fanfic.
Copyright exists so that authors can become properly compensated for their work within their lifetime and a little bit afterwards. After this, all characters, settings, etc. enter the public domain.
Since fanfic is not for profit and for the entertainment of the fans themselves (who are encouraging interest in the author's original work), it's best to pretty much ignore the "righteous indignation" of IP owners when it comes to fan-based enthusiasm for their work.
As soon as copyright begins to become a burden for most honest people just having fun with pop culture, then we know something is wrong. Take such "intellectual property rights" with a real grain of salt, here.
-Dean
I have been involved in fandom and reading and writing fan fiction for some time now. Many of my friends have been writing and reading fan fiction for decades.
It's a general rule, at least among more experienced fan fiction writers, to avoid fan fiction regarding an author's copyrighted fiction and/or characters, etc. Fandom and fanfiction about TV Series and movies is preferred, and those who definitely infringe on copyrighted material (only in books) are greatly frowned upon.
I have noticed that the more the Internet has grown, that many of the newer writers, etc. have been ignoring this rule, and basically, are at risk themselves legally by doing so, as well as endangering all of fan fiction in general.
In at least one case a writer of fan fiction was hired as a full-time writer.
Devin Greyson was hired by DC Comics after a copy of her fanfic reached the Batman editors. After writing assorted specials, she now writes two monthly comics for DC (including a new Batman title).
I understand a bit of the problems, here, being involved in a shared-universe creative writing group (http://www.devilbunnies.org, if you want to know the secret of The Evil That Fluffs.) We create our own characters, thank you...but fanfic has all the problems of a maintained shared universe.
:)
Anne Rice is a poor example of the tug-o-war between content creators and fanfic writers. Anne Rice is the sole owner and creator of her characters, and her goal is to turn out works of art. Star Trek (for example) is owned and controlled by Paramount...and their goal is to use the characters to maximize profits. (Some will argue this is the reason the Star Trek series' are doing so poorly these days.)
Writing a fanfic with characters owned by a single person strikes me as bad taste. At the least, permission should be given. The original artist may have plans to use those characters again. At the very least the characters inhabit a world that the artist has carefully constructed, and very cautious and skilled writing is required to maintain suspension of disbelief of that world for the readers. Someone else's story can introduce concepts that ruin the original work; the Mona Lisa wouldn't be as admired if one of Da Vinci's comtemporaries had painted her a harlot's torso.
But corporations use characters to make money, and they make decisions involving those characters that often are counter to the proper evolution of plot and characterization. They don't care if the story is well-constructed enough to be considered art; they just want it done well enough and cheaply enough to make money. Fanfic of corporate works strike me as an embellishment of a neglected universe, taking art-for-profit and turning it into art-for-artistic-value.
I just don't understand 'slash', though. That strikes me as being written by people with way too much time on their hands.
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
Of course, there is a difference, since MST3K was a TV show, they had to be very careful about the rights. In some cases, old MST3Ks will never be seen again (wink, wink) because the use of the film by the MST3K creators was incorrect or expired.
Of course, you can't expect people who write free fan fiction to do this... eventually most of the content on the Internet created by fans will be destroyed. Fortunately, political screeds by demented political extremists (like my own Website ^_-) will be there to take up the slack! Oh, and don't forget the billboards, lots and lots of Internet billboards will be up too... a great future, eh?
Of course, some smart companies with small advertising budgets may take advantage of this and give fans the right to make limited, non-commercial use of their products. (Just don't expect any of those companies to be in MPAA...)
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
C'mon! A random plot generator is so behind the times! What you really need to write is a random PATENT generator. Then instead of writing hundreds of episodes and waiting for your chance to score, you could write and file hundreds of patents, and wait for your big chance to score.
Seriously, though, they do have something sort of like that idea available for Seinfeld, already: Seinfeld-O-Matic
--It burns! --It's loaded with wasabi.
Many of those involved with fandom often stick with the fandom because of the fan fiction. It's often a common niche for people to meet and get to know others.
And the more a fandom grows or flourishes, often, the more merchandise is bought and sold.
Attempting to get rid of fan fiction typically only forces it to go underground or for fans to distance themselves from the fandom and/or lose interest in the show altogether.
Just my humble opinion.
I agree with this - I believe that some of it comes down to a difference between mediums.
...
ST and XF are television shows - fanfic based upon them are written works. Anne Rice's work is written, fanfic about her characters is written as well. It presents much more of a commerical danger. That case is much more clear-cut and would be easier for the copyright holder to win. (I'm not sure of the case law on written fiction/written fanfic at the moment - I'd have to hit L-N for it.)
But
Copyright laws are not actually based upon absolutes - the existance of Fair Use is a prime example of that. Beyond the clearly illegal (copying something word for word and publishing it without the author's consent) it's mainly dealt with on a case-to-case basis. We can take all the sides we want on the copyright issue and media-based (television) fan fiction, but it has *no* legal standing unless its number comes up in court. It has no ruling declaring it legal, no ruling declaring it illegal.
Hell, I ended up here in the first place by searching for stories about Riker and Chakotay. (slash fanfic has homosexual content, be that Xena and Gabriel hot tubbing together or Cigarette Smoking Man and Mulder... well... you don't want to know. Especially the one with the tomato juice.)
"...virtue springs from iron within, not lead without." R. Kipling
Most original works are in the form of books, with the occasional short story collections.
Fan fiction can range from short stories, vignettes, filk and poetry up to novel length. It is entertaining, sometimes serious, sometimes hilariously funny.
I (and many others) enjoy and can enjoy both!
Larry Niven, at least in the early 1990s, took strong exception to anyone using his material for fanfic, after a work of fanfic was written about Niven's kzinti that Niven found distasteful. Niven's own words on the topic can't be found online, but are in the introduction to _The Man-Kzin Wars IV_ published in 1991.