Fahrenheit 451

Greetings, all. I thought I'd let things settle down a little bit after my Cluetrain review, and try something slightly safer. :-) It never ceases to amaze me how, in an age where we use the phrase "that's so yesterday!" without flinching, the best lessons are those from "long ago." Book burning has been a hallmark of our century, although we certainly did not invent it. From the blatant actions of the Nazis to the self-censorship of the post-WWII age to today's filtering fights, the struggle to express ourselves has never ended. Come the middle of this century, at a time when the status quo was as strong as it has been in recent memory, a man with a story reminded us of something that Thomas Jefferson expressed two centuries before, that a little revolution now and then is a good thing. That revolution may generate some uncomfortable instability, but in the end we as a society are better for it. Fahrenheit 451 author Ray Bradbury pages 179 publisher Del Rey rating 10/10 reviewer Jason Bennett ISBN 0-345-41001-7 summary Although written in a "calmer" era, F451 still resonates with us today as uncomfortable views continue to be repressed.

The Scenario Since this is fiction, I'll keep this short to avoid giving away the story. Imagine the Jetsons in a time where owning a book is illegal, in a society dominated by mindless media. In other words, it's set in the present, as the present could be. Ok, I'm exaggerating, but not as much as I'd like to be. In this time, houses have been made completely fireproof, and therefore the firemen don't stop fires -- they start them, by burning down houses containing contraband (books). The rationale is quite simple: Books are divisive. There's always someone complaining, or feeling attacked, or generally unhappy that someone else knows something he shouldn't. But there's no need to repeat what Bradbury has so eloquently expressed.

Now let's take up the minorities in our civilization, shall we? [Giant list of every possible philosophical group] The bigger your market, Montag, the less you handle controversy, remember that! ... It didn't come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick, thank God. [italics mine] ... Surely you remember the boy in your own school class who was exceptionally 'bright'.... And wasn't it this bright boy you selected for beatings and tortures after hours? ... And so when houses were finally fireproofed completely... [firemen] were given the new job, as custodians of our peace of mine, the focus of our understandable and rightful dread of being inferior: official censors, judges, and executors.

Jon Katz, fifty years early. Be afraid.

What's Bad? I'm supposed to tell you what's bad about a classic of science fiction written around the time of my parent's birth? Yeah, right. I gave it a zero above for a reason: there's no way to rate this. Is this a better book than, for example, Cryptonomicon? In terms of influence and longevity, certainly. Will you like it more? Go find out for yourself! It's short!

What's Good? The best books are the ones that last, the ones with the timeless lessons that speak across the ages. I felt this way with my first review for Slashdot, of The Mythical Man Month, and I feel the same now. Fahrenheit 451 expresses the issue just as well today as it did when it was written. Cyberpatrol, the CDA, and peacefire may have been decades away, but that only makes the lesson all the more poignant. In addition, there are more recent addenda in this edition written by Bradbury himself that relate some of what has happened since the original publication. All in all, a satisfying and poignant read.

So What's In It For Me?

A needle that will prick your heart, and a voice that will speak to your soul.

Purchase this book at ThinkGeek.

Table of Contents

• Part One: The Hearth and the Salamander
• Part Two: The Sieve and the Sand
• Part Three: Burning Bright
• Afterword
• Coda

Comments

An excellent book.

[Legolas-Greenleaf]

I really enjoyed this book, as I do with most political fiction (i bought it one cold winter night when i had nothing to do).

It makes a really good comment about political correctness. While it is a good thing, this book paints the nightmare scenerio where free thought is eliminated through the destruction of books and programming of people (with television). Even the bible was changed so that Jesus was one of the family.

I do agree that being sensitive to people is important. However, even though it may offend some, having a seperate identity is important - it's what makes us human. Otherwise, as was the case in this book, we're all the same. And is that a life worth living?
-leoglas

i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

Re:An excellent book.

[belgin]

It makes a really good comment about political correctness. While it is a good thing, this book paints the nightmare scenerio where free thought is eliminated through the destruction of books and programming of people (with television).

Allow me to append to the bolded quotation: in moderation. The simple problem that the book illustrates (along with various absurdities in the United States today) is a lack of moderation. No I am not talking Karma here, either.

Any special interest group is formed because the people involved share a set of opinions and priorities. When those groups suggest that the general public should or should not do X and give a valid reason, the public should listen, think about it, and usually agree to some extent. If, on the other hand, extremists in those groups are dictating public policies to the public and the public is simply acquiesing, that is the path to problems like F451 examines. Guess which one we are getting in the US? There is one version of zero moderation that we call fascism, and most people seem not to like it. This inverted version of it that arose from more liberal ideologies really just boils back down to fascism with a different coat of paint on it. Instead of starting with a majority and eliminating minority deviations, it starts with a federation of minorities and forging them into a majority that wipes out deviations within, then outside of the majority.

Are we in danger of this in the next year or two? Probably not. But unless people start making decisions based on their own ethics, representing themselves in society, and generally acting as a voice of "reason", they will continue to be trampled by the power of much smaller groups. I am not advocating any particular ideology, but stand up for whatever ones you believe in. As those of us who are not extremists drop out of the political picture in disgust, there are only the extremists left. Extremists come up with extreme solutions to problems. People are getting strange ideas from books? Get rid of the books. People are insulting minorities disproportionally? Make it a special, worse kind of crime that punishes anyone who insults a minority. People don't like Jews and Gypsies? Well, put them in special camps where they won't bother people.

As people complacently ignore political and societal situations, they tend to sit on their duff or pursue their own particular interests. (We /.ers tend to fall into the latter category from what I have seen.) With the TV right in front of them and nothing better to do, these people fall into the complete complacency of a world where nothing affects them. Those who lose themselves into their own interests tend to ignore or forget about the rest of the world unless it directly stomps in the way of their interests.

Who could change things and prevent the powers that control a government from doing the extreme things I mentioned? That middle group that isn't paying attention. Why aren't they paying attention? Because it is a lot easier to go with the flow and do everything according to the "right thing to do" of the moment. Who is keeping them content and uninterested? People who make money from having content and uninterested TV viewers. Hollywood makes such a disproportional amount of money to stage theatres that it isn't even remotely funny. Why would they ever want to give that up?

If people took every good-sounding idea and applied it in moderation, they would have a lot of things get better. When the good idea turned out to be not-so-good, there is a smaller mess to clean up. Oops! Burning books wasn't such a good idea! Good thing we only burned a few thousand instead of all of them!

B. Elgin

But the thing to remember here is....

[CSG_SurferDude]

But the thing to remember here is that the government knew that there were people who were memorizing those books for the day when the government finally collapsed and that knowledge would be needed again.

The governement in the book is the government the people wanted, but at least those in power knew it was wrong, and took steps to protect mankind (Not the citizens, per se, but the future generations) from the idiocies of the present.

And why yes, I own two copies presently, paperback, and an autographed hardcover edition.

And, BTW, I am still waiting for somebody to turn A Sound of Thunder into a full length movie.

F-451

[BWS]

I have to agree that F-451 is one of the best books that I've ever read. Along with ClockWork Orange, 1984, Animal Farm, and numerous others.

Too bad the younger generations are now growing up and reading too much crap. I mean, Shakespeare is all good and stuff. But how many Shakespeare books should a person read in school before its declared enough? 5? 10? All?

The reason why the teachers never mention these books is that they never read them. They don't want students to know something they don't. They don't want their students to learn new stuff.

I say, we should make reading one of those classic books [above] mandatory reading in schools.

Re:F-451

[ceo]

I actually originally read F451 because it was assigned reading in junior high English (in, like, 1982 or so). This review reminds me I really should reread it someday and pick up all the stuff my hormone-crazed 9th-grade brain missed.

The movie is definitely worth a rental, too. (directed by François Truffaut, starring Oskar Werner, Julie Christie and Cyril Cusack); it features some spectacular acting, vaguely surreal visuals (in classic mid-60s European style) and the opening credits are spoken, which makes perfect sense when you think about it.

Re:F-451

[BigZaphod]

"However, and I a hope that I am not the only dissenter here, but F-451 I find to be the most boring and laboriously told of any of the Bradbury fables. There is no wit, as the point is beaten home with a sledgehammer."

In a way, I think that's the point. There's more to the story than just the words. The style speaks volumes as well.

As I remember the story (I read it in high school 4 years ago), society had become amazingly dull and boring. People didn't really know what to do with themselves. Some would engage in terribly dangerous sport just so they could feel that rush of living and dying. Life was boring. So the style was boring too. It helped set the mood and drive the boredom of the time home to the reader.

My $0.015.

l8r
Sean

Hooray for Slashdot Reviews!

[zpengo]

If there's one thing I love about Slashdot, it's the fact that they're not afraid to remind us of the things we already have. Every newspaper and magazine in the world reviews the latest bestsellers, in an effort to promote what is already selling; Slashdot, however, often reviews things in a completely anachronistic manner, and makes us aware of some of the great works of our geeky past.

This post will almost certainly get modded down as trolling or kissing up, but I just wanted to say hooray for Slashdot! :o)

If there is one book ...

[Bad Mojo]

If books had to justify their existance in this world, this book would surely be one of the very few around. No other book that I have read has proved it's worth to be published so clearly.

I think everyone who can, should read this book. Reading it online will never do justice. Having it read will not be the same. And seeing the movie is almost blasphemous. If anything, it's a wonderful warning about how society can crush an individuals freedoms without vigilance. Not to mention a good story about a guy who is willing to fight the status quo for something as silly as some pressed wood and ink.

Fire is bright. Fire is clean. Burn all. Burn everything.


Bad Mojo

The ISO 9000 compliant version is "Celsius 283"

[georgeha]

to make it match SI units.

George

Great, important classic

[Ray Dassen]

Fahrenheit 451 is indeed one of the great classics. Not only as one of the most powerful arguments against censorship (together with, say, Nineteen Eighty-Four) and repressive societies that force people to conform to an extremely narrow norm (like Brave New World's classes/levels of people), but also as a book about the joy and the importance of reading, and as a persuasive argument for the need for individuals taking personal responsibility, rather than relying on the collective (be it state, church, or movie rating board) to know what's best for them.

dogma

[Golias]

The reason why this book continues to be venerated is because so many people consider it "important". Not for its influence on literature, but because its message that captures the attention of its audience. (Like other "great" science fiction of the 30's-60's, it uses the fictional setting to convey a warning about trends that frightened the author. Brave New World, 1984, Atlas Shrugged, etc. were all motivated by politics... The creative vision was a secondary consideration, and it shows. These books were written to make you think, not to make you dream.)

451 has an edge over these other works, in that it preaches to the choir as few works of art ever have. After all, it is a book about how important books are, so the audience (people who read novels) are more apt to be shaken up by this nightmare than the average Joe.

Bradbury claimed that once he had the idea for this book he was able to write the entire book in one sitting. Just like "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis, it is a story that almost writes itself, once the author invents the concept.

Perhaps because it was written so quickly, the narrative really flows. Reading this story makes for a great lazy summer afternoon. If you just recently finished pounding your way through the choppy prose of a William Gibson novel (say, "Virtual Light"), then F.451 is a great choice for something to clear the palate with (before moving on to "Idoru").

Re:dogma

[John Fulmer]

> 451 has an edge over these other works, in that
> it preaches to the choir as few works of art
> ever have.

I disagree. The book has been revered by book lovers, but it's origional popularity was also shared by the general public.

The book was written in a time where wholesale banning of books was still the norm, not just an occasional outrage. F-451 was banned from many libraries itself. McCarthy-ism (sic) was in full swing and anyone 'different' was targeted by society at large and frequenly labeled as a 'troublemaker', 'freak', or 'communist'.

Sound familiar?

There is a short story referenced by F-451, in which a man is stopped by police and arrested for walking for enjoyment, because it was against the norm.

Not only that, but the story was origionally published in a shorter form in a magizine (Harpers?), not in book form.

> Bradbury claimed that once he had the idea for
> this book he was able to write the entire book
> in one sitting.

And he pretty much had to. He was renting a typewriter in the basement of a local library for 10 cents an hour, in a time when he was dirt poor. :)

Book burning == Moderation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Idle thinking out loud...

It's interesting to draw a parallel between book burning and the propensity for Slashdot moderation to silence those with strong opinions that go against the "popular culture". I'm not talking about Natalie Portman trolls, but opinions that are very strongly worded. Having been on the receiving end of "fascist moderation", I know that it happens.

Now, granted on Slashdot messages aren't destroyed per se. But it's interesting to note how often it happens that the tyranny of the Slashdot masses asserts itself to at least attempt to silence those voices that dare to question the conventional wisdom in too strong a manner.

Re:Book burning == Moderation?

[DuBois]

The real problem is that the moderation trolls (trolls who moderate) haven't read the guidelines for moderation. Instead of mostly moderating up, they use all their moderation points to moderate down.

Moderating down is a kind of book burning. And it illustrates one of the basic defects of democracy: the majority becomes invincible and minorities and minority viewpoints are trampled under the jackboots of the mob. That's one of the major reasons I never vote DeMOBlican, and instead vote Libertarian.

Re:Book burning == Moderation?

[pmc]

Could you give some examples of where this has happend? The only times I can think of that a non-obvious-troll post has been moded down are when they are either a) factualy wrong or b) illerate flames

It happened to me - I posted at +2 and the post was modded down as being overrated. Why? All the post said was that stories were being changed after being posted (admittedly it was only a few typos but once it's released than that's it. If they are going to change it say so.)

Was it wrong? No. Was it illiterate? No. Did it (indirectly) criticise /.? Yes. Not the first time I'd seen it either.

Re:Book burning == Moderation?

[finkployd]

Ok, let's look at that example. Historically on Slashdot (and Chips N Dips before it) the discussions were supposed to surround the TOPIC that the story contained. Before the trolls hit, there was no problem and no moderation was required. Now we have people who post completly offtopic junk and and some (most) of us would like to be able to only read the relevant posts. Along comes moderation and we can once again do that.

Back to your post. I don't think that it was moded down because it indirectly attacked slashdot, I think it was moded down because it was offtopic, and seemingly pointless. Who cares if they fixed the spelling on their page? Apparently nobody, since it was not moded up, and was moded down instead. I'm glad, since when I want to read comments and participate in discussion revelant to the topic at hand, I don't want to have to filter through whiny complaints about slashdot any more than I want to filter out hot grits posts.

Remember it's the users who are the moderators, not some brainwashed army of little CmdrTacos. Why you thought that everyone would be interested in slashdot correcting their spelling (so much that you posted it +2) is beyond me, but you were apearently wrong.

Finkployd

Why take a shot a Shakespeare?

[lythander]

You should read them all. They're good for you, too. There's much drivel in school literature classes nowadays, and I certainly agree that these latter-day great books (1984, F-451, etc.) should be included, but not at the expense of other classics. This is like saying that you should give up eating salad to add more vegetables to your diet. Give up the cake.

Re:Why take a shot a Shakespeare?

[^_^x]

Personally, I think Shakespeare was a great author for his time. Still, I think people put too much stock in his writing just because of his reputation. I think that one or two books should be mandatory reading, but after that, a greater range of authors should be introduced instead of more Shakespeare. Personally, I think Masamune Shirow was (is) a better author, depending on the stories being compared, but being manga, it'll probably never make it into the curriculum despite the reading level and philosophical questions brought up in it. (I'm referring to the book when I say this.)

Re:It's scaaary :)

[Wah]

DeCSS and Napster are the books that are currently trying to be burned. And others. Metaphorical books perhaps, but nonetheless they are bits of knowledge and logic that some people don't want you to have...because it weakens their control. Same story, new century.

--

The new century is in for some nastiness

[PingXao]

In America it's said that people vote with their pocketbooks. I don't see anyone rushing to pledge their fortunes anymore for the idea of liberty. Here's where I see our net freedoms going:

France wants to ban Nazi items.
Australia wants to ban porno.
America wants to ban gambling over the net and drug-related information.
China wants to ban all criticism.
God only knows what Iraq will want to ban when it finally gets its shit together.

It's pretty easy to see where this is all going to end up in a few years. There WILL be some sort of international treaty where all signatories agree to implement and enforce these bans. ISPs will be licensed and audited. Separate licenses will be required for T1 (and other high speed) backbone connections to the net. There's really only a handful of really big nodes in the US and probably the same is true in most countries. MAE EAST and MAE WEST anyone? Add in a dose of protect-the-children and anti-terrorism hysteria and kick it up a few notches with organized crime fears, Intellectual Property wars and BAM! it becomes all too clear. People, i.e. the Governments, will demand this wholesale control over who sees what. And the people who make those decisions will have absolutely no idea what they're doing or talking about. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

We, the enlightened ones, won't be able to stop it. We can't stop the RIAA or the MPAA. We're losing the DeCSS battle on the DVD front. Napster might be doomed, for all we know. The companies that have the money will get their way like dingos in a day-care center and THAT will set the precedents. Once the technical means are in place to impose content filtering on a large scale, then the really radical do-gooders will follow in their footsteps and screw it up but good.

I hate to say it but the Geeks and privacy activists and defense-of-rights groups are going to be left out in the cold like one-legged men in an ass kicking contest. Unless people start taking stuff like liberty seriously.

Other Suggestions

[vvulfe]

F-451 is definately a landmark book...but enough complimenting. If you enjoyed Bradbury's novel, you might want to check out "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatin, a Russian author writing, interestingly enough, before the USSR, but during the Russian Revolution. It shares some striking thematic similarities with F-451, and is definately worth a read if you are interested in Dystopias. Other suggests are: Brave New World (Huxley) 1984 (Orwell) Animal Farm (Orwell) Walden 2 (Skinner) ..For bonus points, read them all in the space of a few days, and then hide in a dark room, frought with depression for a week or so. ttyl, VVulfe

How close to our world?

[Anonymous Commando]

Some days I get frightened by this world, and how it's starting to converge with the world of F.451...

...every time I see "America's Most Wanted", I think of the scene where the TV tells everyone to go out to the street to watch for Montag...

...in the clutter of banner ads, billboards, infomercials, and sponsorship logos, I hear "Denham's Dentifrice"...

...when my friend buys a big-screen TV, I think of Montag's wife in her "parlour"...

...when I hear about WAVE and profiling, I think of the young girl who moved in next door to Montag...

I could probably think of more, but it's been a couple years since I've read it... definitely will be pulling this one from the bookshelf again tonight.
________________________

Dissenting Opinion

[gus2000]

I strongly disagree that this book is 10/10. To be great, books must have great content and great style. This book has none of the latter. The writing is uninspired, the plot twists are predictable and mundane, and virtually all dialogs are so contrived that they are completely unbelievable. That having been said, I will admit that I have read this book twice. Once in high school where our teacher gave it to us as an example of how an author can start with a wonderful idea and situation and then proceed to completely ruin it. Once again several years later to see if I still agreed with that opinion (and I do, even more so than before).

Here is some more food for thought: if this is such a wonderful and classic book that warned us 30 years ago about the perils of censorship, then why is it that every year that goes by our reality
gets closer and closer to Bradbury's fiction? (hint: it has something to do with the fact that posting opinions to slashdot does nothing to change to world... go out there and do something about it!)

Re:Dissenting Opinion

[Bad Mojo]

"The writing is uninspired, the plot twists are predictable and mundane, and virtually all dialogs are so contrived that they are completely unbelievable."

I used to think about stuff like this. Then I started meeting people who actually talked and acted like someone who couldn't act or talk. Maybe actors and writers who seem bad, are really just doing really good jobs portraying badly done people?

Still, there's no excuse for Battlefield Earth.

Bad Mojo

Buy Link..

[slashkitty]

Well.. the buy link wasn't working.. so I went to half.com where I bought it for $1.19... free shipping if you buy two more. .

You of course realize...

[Shin Elendale]

This is the exact thing Bradbury was talking about :) He noticed that PC stuff (in this case, ISO correct stuff) was causing a massive wave of fear even then. The book's problem, the fact that most of the characters are zombies, was created because the minorities took over and no one could insult anyone, in other words: imagine a world on happy drugs. Much irony (and yes, I'm misusing that word... I think... errr... now I'm not sure...)

-Elendale (Not to mention it has something to do with my .sig)

Re:Inherent hypocrisy

[ucblockhead]

I just want to point out that the main reason that it is a great deal of work to find a gem among the -1 trolls is not so much the moderation as the low number of gems and high number of trolls. It is trivial to browse at -1, but it is not so trivial to find anything worth reading at -1.

Were there no moderation system, hence no "censorship", you'd not have any easier time finding those gems. Likely you'd have a worse time, as there'd be even more trolls.

/. moderation is a filtering system, not a censorship system. The difference being that it is voluntary for the reader. This means that if 99.99999% of /. readers decide to browse at 1, that one lone reader willing to wade through the crap still can. That's why it is not censorship. Censorship is me telling you what you can't read. It is not me telling you what you ought not read. The latter is merely reviewing as it restricts you in no way whatsoever. And that's all /. moderation is. A reviewing system.

Too many people equate the freedom to not read what you don't want to read with censorship of the writer.

Re:Why?

[Ray Dassen]

Why is Slashdot reviewing a book that 90% of the educated population read years ago?

There can be plenty of reasons.

Slashdot is read by many non-Americans. F451 is in all likeliness read by significantly less than 90% of the educated population in, say, Europe.

Books, films, articles etc. like all things tend to fade in one's memory. F451 makes points about the human nature that many feel are extremely relevant to today's and tomorrow's societies. I see no harm in paying attention to such relevant items, even if they're not the latest news.

Check out the movie also

[Randy Rathbun]

There are some differences between Bradbury's book and François Truffaut's 1966 film, namely that Clarisse makes it to the end of the film, but some of the performances are just down right scary.

Bee Duffell (the lady who played the Old Crone in Monty Python and the Holy Grail) is the lady who gets burned with her books. Cyril Cusack plays the fire captain and is most ruthless in his treatment of the young firemen who let their hair grow too long.

Oskar Werner is Montag and does a very very good job at playing the part.

Some of the scenes in the film just send chills down my spine, like when the van drives down the street announcing "Calling all Citizens. Wanted for murder, the criminal is alone and on foot. Let each one stand at his front door, look and listen." Damn powerful stuff.

Seeing the fire truck is almost comical - it is very surrealistic for some reason. I don't quite know why. Perhaps because that truck is just so damn red, or that the fire truck is not on it's way to put out a fire.

Just do yourself a favor and read the book and see the movie. You will love both of them.

Re:Why?

[georgeha]

My contributions to the SF list are

• 
  
• F451
  agreed
  
• Martian Chronicles
  agreed
  
• I Robot
  agreed, maybe add the Foundation series
  
• The PostMan
  Never read it, should check it out
  
• The Adolescence of P-1
  Never read it, should check it out
  
• FootFall
  Disagree, I think Niven and Pournelle do much more impressise stuff, eg. The Mote in God's Eye.
  
• The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
  agreed
  
• Starship troopers
  een, too juvenile, replace with Stranger?
  

And I would add, for Science Fiction

• Dune
  
• The Stars My Destination
  
• Shockwave Rider
  
• A Scanner Darkly
  
• The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
  
• Who Goes There
  
• Protector
  
• Hyperion
  
• Neuromancer
  
• Snowcrash
  
• Mars trilogy
  

Well, that's enough for now

George

Re:Inherent hypocrisy

[ucblockhead]

I read what the moderators tell me to read.

But only because you choose to read what they tell you to read!

If choice is involved, it is not censorship, and not even close to censorship.

Censorship would be me telling you that you must browse at 2 or, for that matter, that you must browse at -1.

"Censoring yourself" is not choosing what to read. It is choosing what to write.

Gauss 10K

[ch-chuck]

How about a rewrite of F-451, I'd suggest Gauss-10K (cheesy sci-fi background: that's the strength of the magnetic field required to erase all the information on a hard disk (not necessarily true, just too lazy to research the real numbers)) about a CRSPES (pronounced 'crispies', the CopyRight, Security and Privacy Enforcement Squad) unit that does dramatic public invasions of ISP's that have been fingered as harboring or transmitting Not Permitted (NP) information, with the protagonist clandistinely and successfully creating a 'data haven' hidden, to the global CRSPES forces chagrin, deep in the Himalayan mountains.

Hey, front me 1.5 yrs salary and I'll finish the story!

A sad anecdote...

[Remus Shepherd]

I was working with a young hotshot techie last year, and we were discussing various obscure physical constants. Until the subject of burning paper came up. "Oh, and you know that paper burns at Fahrenheit 451, of course," I said to him.

"Of course," he replied. "Fahrenheit 451. I remember because Jon Bon Jovi wrote a song about that."

I stopped breathing for a few seconds, then quizzed him on whether he knew who Ray Bradbury was. He didn't. Quickly, I got up and left the room, muttering, "...must resist...urge to kill..."

So remember -- no matter how important your contribution to modern culture, pop culture can still assimilate, digest, and distort your entire life's work. :-)

Re:A sad anecdote...

[Pope]

I thought they only had the "7800 Degrees Farenheit" album?!

Pope

Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!

Re:Inherent hypocrisy

[(void*)]

Totally agree.

Not only that, you can even turn off the display of scores, if you feel that it biases you towards reading some comments but not others. This must be some kind of censorship if people can choose not to see the scores!

It's not about censorship though...

[dirty]

Personally I feel that many people have it wrong about Farenheit 451: the book has nothing to do with censorship. Think about it, what's the point in censoring books if you censor ALL books, not just the ones that are subversive to your cause? Farenheit 451 is a novel about what happens when people stop caring and just want their lives to be easy. People don't want to have to think about the things in life that make them upset, so they burn the books. Poetry is sad, books contain controversial ideas. Everyone has their nice TV room where they watch programs that have no plot, where nothing ever goes wrong, and where everything always turns out being happy.

The scarry thing is that present day society is heading right down this path. Look at today's society. People injur themselves due to an action that is entirely their fault, but they sue some company. Why? Because it's easier. It's easier to make company X pay you for your mistakes than it is to admit your mistakes. Parents don't want to raise their children, so they blame teachers, they blame the internet, they blame everyone but themselves.

Farenheit 451 isn't our future, it's our present. Replace book burning with law suit and it's our society.

I dunno about the Turner Diaries

[Jonathan]

In the limit of ab absurdum, given the choice between reading the Turner Diaries and F451, I would probably read F451. Would you prefer that everyone read F451 over the Turner Diaries? (Most people would)

Considering that I, and most people, haven't read the Turner Diaries, I'm not sure if this is a meaningful question. All I know is that the media has made it sound as if the TD were some sort of mind control device which can turn normal people into fanatic anti-government terrorists. It might be interesting to see what the fuss is all about, but it probably isn't interesting enough to risk being profiled as a potential terrorist by the governments of the western world by purchasing it.

Damn good point.

[Anonymous Coward]

Something else to remember: The book is set against a backdrop of impending war. The characters in the book never find out what the war is about because their society doesn't give a damn.

The media is filtered by what people want to see (ie, they only want to hear about themselves), not censored. The danger our society faces today isn't censorship by Big Brother, but filtration by market forces.

Want proof? Compare any CNN/NBC newscast to a BBC newscast. CNN/NBC are selling entertainment, not information. If they think an issue isn't going to get them viewers, it doesn't get covered.

The truth is out there, but the marketing folks don't think you want to see it.

ERR 451 - Server on fire

[Mignon]

A while ago I collaborated on a system that is used to send news stories into a proprietary system. I wanted my error replies to have an official feel, so I consulted the "Theory of Reply Codes" (appendix E) in Jon Postel's RFC 821.

One condition I wanted to report was colloquially described as "News is on fire" so I checked the appendix.

The 4xy series is for "Transient Negative Completion reply", i.e. errors which are temporary, indicating the client can try again.

The x5y series is for "These replies indicate the status of the receiver (mail) system vis-a-vis the requested transfer or other (mail) system action."

Since it was the first error in this series, I arrived at error 451, which gave me a chuckle...

And Amazon is willing to ban Mein Kampf

[unquiet]

Late last year I published a spoof interview with Adolph Hiter regarding the requested ban of his own biography in Germany. Supposed to be semi-humorous, but I think I got the point across as well.

Versus last century?

[Reality Master 101]

Let's see; two world wars. Huge death and suffering under Communism. Innumerable smaller wars.

At the beginning of the century, no antibiotics. Polio disfigured millions of children (Most of the churchbells in the US rang when the cure was announced).

Now let's see, at end of the last and beginning of this one, we have incredible medical advances. The world is (relatively) at peace, and borders are the most stable in history. There is more freedom that at any time in history. The Internet has created more free access to information than at any time in history.

And people whine that their "right" to steal music via Napster may be taken away. Oh yeah, no generation has ever suffered like this generation.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: The people of today are the most spoiled in history. Instead of looking at the incredible upward curve of freedom and quality of life, they can only focus on "hardship" the current generation endures. Cry me a river.

--

more than just book burning

[mlas]

Fahrenheit 451 is one of the few books I make myself reread every two years or so, because we are, in some ways, in the middle of the world gone mad that Bradbury prophesied. But it's interesting for many, many other reasons than the censorship issue. The "parlor walls" that Montag's wife interacts with presage MUDs, chat rooms and cybersex, and her dependence on artificiality over reality leads her to suicidal depression when confronted with her husband's reality. And the scene in the end, when the suspected murderer is on the run, running past houses filled with people who are watching the chase on TV, and they come out to watch the chase-- yes, Bradbury described OJ in the white Bronco forty years before the fact.

But the essence of the story really is the nature of the censorship. There's no 1984/Brazil-type monolithic central authority that's the source of the repression here, but a collective of unthinking people doing their part to keep the imagination of the individual under wraps. Note Mrs. Montag's lady-friends in the parlor tut-tutting over Guy's strange behavior, or the amoral teenagers driving fast on the highways looking for something to hit, or the blase half-interest in far-off wars on the TV. Even the chief fireman isn't presented as a functionary of central authority, but a dangerous anti-intellectual who functions with some autonomy but has no reason to change his relationship with society, because he's comfortable with his influence over others, not because he's pure evil.

Well chosen, a book that gets subtler upon rereading. Get it, read it often.

Re:Why?

[georgeha]

I thought Starship Troopers was juvenile because it was mostly

"Rah rah, get tough, train tough, kill skinnies."

"Rah rah, get tough, train tough, kill buggies."

Not because of some lame marketing attachment.

The most interesting parts of the book, ie. the citizenship requirements, the generals jumping with the troops were barely dealt with.

I think a far superior treatment of the same theme is Haldeman's The Forever War.

George

Re:Inherent hypocrisy

[ucblockhead]

The point is that the moderation system doesn't stop something from reaching anyone unless they personally decide they don't want to see it.

Censorship is making a choice for someone against their will. That distinction is crucial.

Moderation does not stop a person from speaking. It may stop a person from being heard. That is a crucial difference. Free speech is about the right to speak. It is not about the right to be heard. The reason for this is that any "right to be heard" would infringe on someone else's right to choose what they listen to. Free speech means being allowed to stand on your soapbox and shout to anyone who will listen. It does not mean that you can demand that everyone must come listen.

The fact that people may decide not to post because they don't think anyone will willingly listen is does not show censorship, no more than the fact that people may decide that standing on a soapbox and shouting is pointless shows censorship.

You have a right to speak, not a right to force people to listen. The moderation system is merely a means whereby people decide what to listen to.

Re:DeCSS has one use

[Wah]

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

Call it what you want, but its still illegal.

All DeCSS does is dump a 4 gig file on your hard drive.

....
--

I had a censored version of this book once...

[soren.harward]

I read Fahrenheit 451 in English class freshman year of high school. We were issued the school's copies of the book, while my teacher used her own copy. Well, to make a long story short, I had read the book before, and I noticed a distinct lack of profanity in this edition. Sure enough, I flipped through the publisher's introduction, which promoted itself as a "Special Student Edition" of the novel. What they didn't say was that all the mild profanity ("Damn in, Montag!") and other potentially objectionable material had been removed -- including several whole paragraphs, which my teacher hadn't noticed because she was reading from her own copy. The book was published by a now-defunct publisher (Lloyd-Merson Publications), that edition copyright 1985; with a little bit of digging I found that it had been published against Ray Bradbury's permission, and when he found out about this abomination he was nothing less than immensely pissed off, as was I and my teacher (one of the few that I've ever had that really had a good head on her shoulders). Citing [legitimate] bugetary constraints, the school and district politely refused to buy new copies, so all the students wrote "Warning: this book has been censored" in the front covers. How ironic that a book critiquing the censorship and repression of objectionable material is itself censored for a few pathetic words which are already in every American student's vocabulary.

Re:DeCSS has one use

[Wah]

You seem to have mistaken my sig as some kind of anti law anarchist.

No, I visited your link and saw you were a gun nut. :) It's a link to "The Most Dangerous Site on the Web!" Aaaaahh! *Wah runs in terror*

I am all about having less government control, but that does not change the fact that DeCSS is illegal, and so is 90% of the mp3s on napster.

Hmm, if we had less government, perhaps 90% of the MP3s and DeCSS wouldn't be illegal. Not that I think copyright law needs to be done away with, just redefined. With less government.

Am I supposed to type in random words in hope of finding a cool band?

Well, I guess I can't help you here ;). Most of the bands I look for on Napster are ones that my friends think are cool.

Here's a few from the last few days.

Eminem
Brooklyn Funk Essentials
Billie Holiday

Type in those random digits from a monkeys fingertips, hit "search", and tell me again that Napster is a bad thing.
--

Re:Why?

[Goonie]

You're absolutely right - this bug is juvenile. As I understand it, that was the point - Heinlein wrote it as a plea for the young men of the time to understand the need for people to place their lives on the line in defence of their fellow citizens, presumably concerned about the early signs of the social changes of the 60's.

However, in Paul Verhoeven's (the movie director) opinion, and my own, along the way he advocates fascist military government, and consequently the movie was a brutal satirisation of the book.

I had an interesting discussion with another Slashdot reader about the book a few months ago on whether Heinlein really intended to advocate a fascist political system in the book or not. After an exchange of fascinating e-mails, we agreed to disagree on the book.

I still think it's well worth a read now, just to decide for yourself what he was really on about.

My 5 paragraph review

[PooF]

I just read it for grade 11 english: My review

Fahrenheit 451 is about a time when books are banned in order to preserve the status-quo. Its author is Ray Bradbury. In the book fireman are the people who burn books for a living. People refer (not jokingly mind you) to their televisions as the "family". I throughly enjoyed the book and would recommend it to anyone who has an opinion about censorship, people who enjoy stories that force you to stop and think about the world. The book is good for a number of reasons. The book achieves it's goal fully, it's written in a very pleasant way and it let's the reader do most of the thinking.

The main goal of the author is to educate and to intice people to think about what books mean. Books have for a long time played an important role in society. Books allow people to imagine whole new worlds, books tell their stories, and teach people countless things. Fahrenheit 451 displays a world where the value of books has been lost. Only a few people still value books, they memorize books and then burn them to prevent themselves from being killed. The world portrayed by Fahrenheit 451 is a dismal place, people run over people while driving 100 MPH just for fun. The picture painted by Ray Bradbury lets people sit back and think about the value of books, therefore achieving its goal in the fullest sense.

One of the best ways to fail as an entertainer is to draw out the work needlessly. No one enjoys the part of the movie where nothing important is happening, the plot isn't thickening and people rant on and on about nothing; the same thing is true with books. Fahrenheit 451 never shoots itself in the foot by boring people, everything is important in one way or another. The books keeps the plot flowing and never has to backtrack just to clarify details. The book maintains a consistent connection and does not break the flow without a very good reason. The only place where more detail would have been nice is the ending, I would have liked to see a much more detailed portrait of the events. However, if Fahrenheit 451 were to draw itself out needlessly and continually force distraction from the normal flow it wouldn't have been as good a book.

Fahrenheit 451 lets the reader do most of the thinking, it doesn't distract from the train of thought and it doesn't explicitly tell the reader to think anything. By allowing the reader to think for themselves the book can achieve its goal more fully. The book only presents an underlying tone, but it doesn't shout out its message directly. The book's bias is obvious but it does provide a good counter argument for all of the points that it raises. The counter argument causes the reader to agree with one side more then the other, therefor sympathizing with certain characters more then others. Letting the reader think creates a whole new dimension in this book, it can change a happy ending into a sad, the "good guys" can become the "bad guys" just in how the reader choose to interpret the message.

Fahrenheit 451 achieves its primary goal very well, by not being overly complex, not dragging on forever and forcing the reader to make choices and gather their own opinions. When I finished I knew I would be reminded of images from the book. The book is very well written and provides a consistent path, letting the reader sit back and enjoy. No major mistakes were made, combining for a great read. To finish with a short quote from the book "The books are to remind us what asses and fools we are".

Aaron "PooF" Matthews
E-mail: aaron@fish.pathcom.com
To mail me remove "fish."
ICQ: 11391152
Quote: "Success is the greatest revenge"