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Techie Friendly Towns, Worldwide?
banditski asks: "A while back, there was an Ask Slashdot forum about Geek-Friendly cities. Invariably, most of them were in the U.S. Now, I'm finishing school in a month or so, and I'm looking to move abroad and see what else is out there before I settle down into a nice comfy niche. My question is this: In which 'foreign' cities (as seen from North America) is there a lot of Internet/IT action taking place? And how well could a predominately English speaking person adapt to living and working in these cities?" On a related note, you might want to check a slightly related article, aptly titled 'Good' Countries for Geeks.
Ok, so it's still in North America, but rated as one of the most techy towns in Canada :-) :-(
Last stat I heard, over 65% of the population had internet access. Lots of good techie places to work in Calgary to, JAWS (encryption company), there is an MS office, lots of good places. City is growing too, up by 12k or so just last year..
Problem is the taxes - ~40% of your pay is taxed
Though I am most probably biased, seeing as I like there, I feel Brisbane is a unique city to live in and has a thriving I.T. community. Many I.T. company's are based here and consequently there are many job opportunities. There are many good Universities in the city. Though the Internet Censorship laws have been enacted in Austrlia they have proven to be, as most people suspected they would, ineffective in stopping transfer of the kind of material it set out to.
Friendly people, smart people (not just I.T), very livable city with little polution and more Urban Sprawl than you can poke a stick at (we built outward rather than upward). All these things make Brisbane the best place for an I.T. professional!!!
Never believe in anything until it has been officially denied. -Otto von Bismarck
London is currently economically booming. There is a lot of work for IT consultants, IT contractors, Web everything. We have connectivity difficulties (no xDSL yet, and leased lines are expensive). Amsterdam is also (from what I hear) very developed in the field. Amsterdam is also very welcoming for English speakers. Everyone there speaks English very well and many of the businesses operate in English.
For the more linguistic esotic areas, I know that the Copenhagen/Malmoe area is rising quickly, but it's harder for find make-money-fast startups there. Copenhagen also has good beer.
Berlin is also up and comming, they've got good beer as well.
/dev/eskil ---
- Tokyo
- Geneva
- Amsterdam
But this also depends on what you actually expect from such a city.The ones above are just ones where you can easily and cheaply get connected, either at home or in a cyber-cafe.
In Paris, in March/April, there is also lots of Internet-related-attractions/activities like in "la Villette" (also known as "La Cité des Sciences").
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Isn't a bad place to live if you're a geek - The main attraction at the moment being the cable modem avaliability - ADSL isn't widely avaliable in the UK yet (Although BT keep promising that it'll be here Real Soon Now, Honest)...
Guildford also has quite a lot of tech companies based there for a town of it's size (pop. roughly 130,000) - especially games companies - EA/Bullfrog, Lionhead, Mucky Foot, Criterion Studios, Fiendish Games (The company I work for), KUJU Entertainment, Glass Ghost, etc..
It's main downside is that it's quite expensive - on the whole you'll be paying pretty close to London prices on most things. Speaking of London, though, it's only about 40 miles away, and it takes half an hour on the traing to get from Guildford to Waterloo station, and during the day trains are every 15 minutes...
I quite like living here - it's not the best place on earth, but I've got my cable modem, so I'm happy.
cheers,
Tim
P.S. And Guildford Computers is a great place to pick up old cheap bits of computer hardware - Just great if you're trying to put web terminals in every room of your house...
I used to live in Wellington, New Zealand. And that's a nice city - but small, only 400K.
:)
At the start of last year, I moved across the Tasman, to Melbourne. Melbourne is just a really nice place to live - great culture, night life, and the job scene seems to be going strongly.
I've found it pretty easy to settle in here, and meet people. There is always something to do. As for jobs.. try these sites:
IT Jobs site by Fairfax
Seek
Monster
As for other sites of interest, check out:
Immigration site
Autralian Taxation Office
Domain a great place to search for share accomodation
The Age newspaper
Umm.. I don't have links for what's on around the city, but some great stuff happens, apart from the good club scene - there's the formula 1 grand prix, if you like noisy loud things that go fast, moonlight cinema is a good thing in summer - outdoor movies. It's just really kind of relaxing and nice.
Melbourne is just really livable and has a good public transport system Victrip
Hope this helps.. and don't forget, I'm a kiwi saying this about Melbourne
Michelle
----
Be true, regret not, and let your star shine forth!
I moved to Norway a little more than 7 years ago, my wife is a Norwegian national. It has turned out better than I ever dreamed, and I will be here for the duration, whatever that is.
I have done some travelling in Europe for business, and gotten to know a little bit about most of the countries.
All of the scandinavian countries are great places to live, and really oriented to high tech.
The difference is in economy of scale. The American perspective is way too big, actually. Here, there are a zillion small companies that are a riot to develop for, because they aren't so big. Then, when you have come up with something really cool, use your American connections to market it stateside.
Here is the hard part - language and work permits. Generally, they are so hard up for tech types that you can make deals to circumvent these problems. However, I would STRONGLY urge you to learn the language of your target country. You don't have to speak it perfectly (I speak Norwegian with a John Wayne accent), whatever effort you make will be greatly appreciated. Plus, we spend all of our time learning C, PERL, etc., why not hook up with a whole new group of people?
Lykke til videre! (Good luck with your plans)
If you got a $100 bill, put your hands up...
Switzerland has a shortage of IT types (especially people with Java skills) and is a very beautiful country. Here in Zurich everybody speaks three or more languages, with at least one being english. It's easy to get 2 Mbs cable modem connections with unlimited (rather than metered) bandwidth.
If you're interested in seeing Europe, Zurich is 30 minutes from Germany, 1 hour from France, 1 hour from Austria, 2.5 hours from Italy and 45 minutes from Lichtenstein. It also doesn't hurt
that it's only half an hour some skiing.
The cost of living here is pretty high, but the
pay is higher too.
Ciao,
Mike
the title says it all, but let me tell you a little more about Bangalore a small city (by western standards !) in South India. This cosmopolitan place is a revelation ..
...
... and its a greaaat place...
:)
Its not without the problems other Indian cities face esp. support infrastructure, public transport etc., but in terms of human potential, IT saviness etc., this place should stand out
If you are looking for GEEK power, this place is fairly up to the mark, what with most of the american big boys having a presence in some form and manner.. (I hate to admit but most of them send over their maintenance tasks here...) implying the geeks are around.. its a great place to be.
Let me continue to sell this place..
The main selling point for a place in India is the weather.. its brilliant.. I mean I have lived in Bangalore all my life
The night life is not as great as any of the western cities but you have a good crowd the the pubs (highest number in India I would imagine...), the people are very nice.. and its a fun place.
So thats some info for the people here who might be interested in knowing about other places...
Cheers,
-/ramas
- ramas opines !!
But, other than that and a few minor other impasses of freedom, I'm sure it's a great place! (No, that last bit wasn't intended to be sarcastic.)
---
seumas.com
If you want the best paying cutting edge job stay in the US. If you want to work abroad to expand your horizans, which I highly recommend, choose the country based on what you want. Most countries are in need of tech workers and will pay a good salary in relation to the area.
I was born, raised and am currently living in Canada, and have lived in the US, Australia and France for extended time and the UK and Germany for short periods of time. I would recommend any one of these countries, each of them has a slighty different culture and history, and any one can be a great expenence.
After living in Calgary for most of my life the 30c temperatures of Perth and Sydney in Australia was great, although Germany is also amazing.
If you want to make money stay in the US, even after living in five other countries I believe it is a great place dispite what people might say. I choose to come back to Canada to start a family near my family, but I could have stayed in, and have visited many of these countries.
Good luck
So here goes nothing:
Here's a great info page about Toronto. (An exerpt: "Toronto has nine months of winter and three months of poor skating -- at least that's what it feels like.")
Seriously, though: our winters will put hair on your chest, but the great summers make up for them!
Here's the City of Toronto's official web site.
<Dons flameproof suit>
Here's another great link to go along with the last two.
--
You want tech heaven? You want ultra obsessed geeky otaku fanboys? You want to go to where Ramen noodles come from? You need to try asia.
The following cities in asia are ultra techie:
Bangalore, India: The Silicon Valley of India, huge computer industry and very western compared to the rest of india. English is the first language for most tech workers in India.
Singapore: Clean, efficient, wired city. English is the first language. The state religion is capitalism and anyone found spitting gum on the sidewalk will be publically flogged.
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: The government is spending billions on fibre connections.
Tokyo: Bladerunner, Otaku, PS2 what more needs to be said?
Cambridge UK is the central point for high tech R&D in England (Reading is more of an commercial IT type area, and LondonCity is more financial) - with a lot of biotech and software firms, including a number of web based start ups. AT&T and Microsoft have R&D centres here.
Good points:
- it's a student town, so there are lots of pubs, and lots of people from different places, so a sort of international melting pot community.
- in the university environment, there are a lots of lectures, classes and interesting things to do if you are in the student/graduate social scene.
- job wise, there's a shortage of engineering supply, and lots of software work, you can walk out of a job one day and pick up another one the next day.
- close to the excitement of London, only 50mins by train into central London for museums, nightlife and everything else, London is one of the great cities you need to experience.
- close to major airports such as Stansted, and Heathrow/London, making it cheap and easy to take off on holidays around Europe, including discount operators such as Go, Easyjet and Ryanair.
- Cambridge university is on the academic tour circuit, so there are lectures by and visits by well known 'stars'.
- the pound is strong, so being paid in pounds sterling is good.
- its a cycle town, so you can get around by bicycle easily and cheaply, plus it's also semi-rural, so you can escape into the surrounding countryside in several minutes.
- a reasonably civil and cultured community: arts theatres, arts cinemas, reasonably good restaurants, museums, sports activities, etc.
- more of a community and friendly rural town feel than of a busy carbon-monoxide drenched city (i.e. the feeling of London or Oxford).
Bad points:
- traffic is bad, trying to drive around in during peak hour, or finding parking spots at any time, can be problematic.
- english weather is often dreary and bland.
- the cost of living is relatively high compared to the average salary that people earn.
- british reservedness and class attitudes, which are still somewhat prevalent.
- in technology/engineering/commercial terms, the practices are behind the united states and australia (in my experiences so far) - it is no match for silicon valley.
- high rents and living costs, and housing shortage in general - accomodation is impossible to find at times.
I've been here for 2.5 years now - I have worked, travelled, studied, attended university formal functions, made friends in the university, spent time in London, hung around coffee houses, devoured books in the many book stores, entertained friends as visitors and a lot more. I only wish that the weather was better.
If your career/job skills match the speciality of the area (high tech R&D), then Cambridge can be a good base for several years of work, travel and life.
-- Matthew - matthew.gream@pobox.com, http://matthewgream.net
Most European capitals have booming Internet and IT sectors, except maybe for south Europe. So Paris, Francfurt/Berlin, London, Amsterdam, Bruxell, Stockolm, etc... are all fine, depending on what lifestyle you are looking for. Salaries are usually the same once you relate them to life cost (London is well paid bug extremely expensive while Paris is not as well paid but cheaper to live in, etc...). I'd said Milan might be good too.
Of the western countries that have foreigner friendly immigration services three clearly stand out: Canada, Australia, New Zealand. All three have policies that with a bit of luck will allow you to work there for a while and even settle. Their governments run various programmes to attract foreign individuals with the right skill sets. Canada is probably the most prominent of the three so that's where I'm heading in September ;). All of them will have a requirement that you have some experience in your field prior to your work permit application. Usually they ask for two or three years.
Also with some luck you may get to South Africa. If you feel you are open minded enough you should try some Central Europe countries. Hungary, Poland and Chech Republic are the most developed of the lot and their major cities will have quite a few techie jobs. Their immigration policies are now in place but at least in Poland it's not a problem to get a permit as long as you have some sensible qualifications. The employers will be quite enthusiastic towards English speaking foreigners there as well so you'll probably feel quite welcome.
As for Asia I don't know much about it but I heard Taiwan is seeking English speaking foreigners to work for their companies but it's not something I could confirm. Don't know about the rest of Asia though.
So that's it. As you can see there isn't that many choices you have. Being an American if you have no or little work experience you can rule out pretty much all of EU straight away, unfortunately. They won't let you in. Consider Canada, Oz or New Zealand or perhaps Central Europe. Sorry about this pragmatic tone but despite all the media blabbing about global workforce the governments are still placing awkward barriers even for highly skilled people. This is something you will have to wrestle with. Good luck with your endavour.
Yip, the 3rd world country with the 1st world tech!
Two cities of reall interest:
Johannesburg, Host too two sepperate LUG's one for Linux Proffessionals with about a $100 one-time joining fee, and the other a standard run-of-the-mill free-for-all-lug with about 500 members. Severall Major IT companies in the City and surrounding towns including branches of Mecer, IBM and Microsoft (the one that got bombed) bringing us to the con, the highest crime-rate in the world, a city for martial-artsy adventurous techies.
Pretoria:
Home of the 3rd largest LUG, crime-rate extremely low (leading to Johburgers calling it boring). Politticall and live/gothic music capitall of the country. Also home to the largest university outside of America famous for having "higher standards than any european university". Birthplace of programs like mcedit and cd-tux. The city plays host to branches of severall other large IT firms including Mustek, Compaq and Amiga. This is also where you will find the largest engineering firms, developement companies ISP's et all.
"Semper in excretum set alta variant"
Stockholm is the "wireless capital of the world".
I was very suprised when visiting New York last week. Noone (I mean hardly anyone) talked in a
mobile telephone. In stockholm (and all of Scandinavia) about 25% of the people walking on the streets are talking in a phone. (Earsdropping on the bus is fun).
Besides the wireless broadband is hot (most appartments are offered some type of >512 Kbaud connection for about $25 a month.)
Copyright 1998 arne Verbatim copying and distribution is permited as long as this message is preserved
I could talk about University of Helsinki's CS dep. as well, but I won't. It seems that the Technical University would be a better place for studies.
Whatever is said of Stockholm, Oslo or Copenhagen, also applies to Helsinki - except for difficulty of the local language, which you don't have to learn if you stay just one year or so, since everybody really talks some english, most people fluently.
Want more of an experience? Choose Reykjavik, Iceland. That's where I'm going to go one of these days.
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
I'd say Amsterdam is a good place to go to. Almost all major IT companies have a presence here, which should make it easy to find a job. The dutch are very open to foreigners, especially americans. Amsterdam is one of the, if not the, most important points networkwise of Europe (hence all the companies here).
:)
:)
One of the things to consider is a workpermit and a residency permit. You can't just pick up your stuff and move to Amsterdam (or any other European city). You need either a residency permit (which will include a workpermit), or a workpermit (which will eventually include a residency permit).
You get a residency permit by either marrying or living with a dutch partner. After a few months you get your permit which includes a valid workpermit for any job you want to do.
You get a workpermit by applying for a joboffer that a company has open (check out all major companies like cisco, sun, hp, and so on). The workpermit you get then is linked to that company, and if you get fired you also loose your residency permit. So find yourself a girlfriend asap
And last but not least, Amsterdam is just a very nice and friendly city
Cor
today or yesterday it was announced that some ICT companies in the netherlands will get some extra room to hire people from outside the EU, so that may just be a good shot if you wanna come to the Netherlands. Speech is free, the beer is good, coffee is just about a national drink, job security is good. Most people know english quite well, so language shouldn't be much of a problem either. at age 18 you're fully adult, so none of this 21 year crap for buying alcohol. And then there's coffee-shops, but that's another story (that has remarably little to do with coffee)
//rdj
P.S. No, I don't know what companies are hiring.
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Both born here.
;)
SSH Tatu Ylönen
F-Secure Half of my friends work there (suckah's
It's not the end of the list but those are some cool things born here. As for cool geek stuff from Finland, you might want to check out Oulu as well - would 'IRC' ring a bell?
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
I came from Australia and have been here 9 months. I prefer here to working in a native-English speaking country because there is so much more culture. However you should do your own research on the culture in the places you're considering (eg the Dutch live on meetings :)..
The other great thing about .nl is that grog is cheap (and there's no minimum drinking age - i was at my girfriends old school last night for her bro's graduation and they were giving beers to the (15yo) kids), geek toys are amongst the cheapest in EU, and all the cities are very compact so dont require cars to get around.
Anyway, as I said - do your own research on the culture in the various countries, but do keep .nl in mind as it is a great place to experience.
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker
I'm not sure what that country's attitude is towards foreign tech workers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they encouraged outside brains helping their economy. Trinidad is the last island in the Caribbean chain, and its economy was devastated after big oil companies (Texaco) drained its resources in the late 70s without regard to the country's long-term well-being. In my view, when a skilled CS or other tech worker goes into such a country, she is performing a service to that country similar to a volunteer in the Peace Corps.
Unfortunately, I can envision some problems with living/working in such a country. Your salary, unadjusted for cost of living, will be much lower than in the US. However, you can live quite comfortably in Trinidad on a significantly lower budget (maybe 20-50% less than in the US?). At the same time, you are surrounded by economic squalor. I can see how this would be depressing. Another problem would be interacting with the government. It is common knowledge in Trinidad that to get any kind of interaction with government inspectors, officials, etc, involves bribing your way into a permit, contract, etc. For instance, if you get pulled over for speeding, you take the cop down to the local rum shop for a few beers. Literally. In fact, corrupt government officials are largely responsible for the decay of Trinidad's economy and infrastructure. If you don't want to play by this country's dirty rules, it might not be the place for you. On the other hand, one might view this as an philanthropic opportunity: it's probably much easier for one person, company or organization to change the political or economic climate of a nation such as Trinidad (pop: ~1.5 million) than it is to become influential in a North American or European country.
I wouldn't be surprised if these comments apply to other small countries as well? Just some thoughts...
If you're not wasted, the day is.
Avoid tech towns with a low/medium ratio of universities/students to jobs. Salaries will be signifigantly deflated below norms because of the college students that are desperate for a quick buck, and don't care/don't know what the going rates for their skills are elsewhere.
This isn't an issue with major centers, but most people know that SF is a good tech center, I'm assuming that the article is looking for worldwide/smaller/non-obvious places.
On the up side, university towns have lots of "real" women and quality bars, so, YMMV. I'd rather have more $ to buy car toys with :).
Kudos
..don't panic
There are a lot of reasons to live in Barbados, but if access to high-tech IT is your goal, keep looking.
There is a lot of encouragement for the national adoption of information technology. Considerable effort being put into encouraging early adoption in schools. There is even a policy to allow computer hardware and software to land duty-free, so as to keep the cost down and allow wider acceptance. However, the costs are still high enough that you won't want to purchase hardware locally if it can be avoided.
Bandwidth is another matter. Point-to-point local telephone is flat-rate, so there is no per-minute charge for dialling an ISP. But the telco has a terrible reputation for customer service. They are also the LD carrier, and the top-level ISP as well. Say "Monopoly". And compared to the USA, the bandwidth is relatively expensive, and the QOS is poor and spotty. Only limited services are available (ADSL only now being tested). To nail up an internet connection of (say) 128kbps would cost you thousands of dollars each month for private use only. To be able to re-sell the bandwidth will cost several times more.
Local employers are often thick-headed and hide-bound. If you send the boss an e-mail on the LAN, he is likely to call you on the phone, tell you to print a copy, and bring it to his office. Unless you work for a company that is directly related to the IT industry, chances are they are computer-illiterate. Even some of the companies that are in the IT field are so incompitent I refuse to use their services.
As for the entire issue of "Online Rights", well, it has not to my knowledge been tested even in the tinyest way. But I have a feeling that the local ISPs would rush to terminate your service if there was even the smallest suggestion that you were being a naughty boy! So I don't think you will be able to set up an off-shore data haven to make copies of DeCSS available to the world.
As I said, there is considerable interest for national adoption of IT, and I hope that we can rapidly catch up in that regard, but as of today, I would have to say that Barbados was not an ideal spot.
But as I said, there are lots of other reasons to live here, and it's a great place to visit!
For those of you looking for a change of pace, try Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada - great beer, unlimited DSL for $40 bucks a month, good tech sector, low, low, low cost of living, it's actually possible to buy a house, and you're only three or four hours from some of the most beautiful scenery (and some of the best roads to race on) on the east cost, the Highlands of Cape Breton.. Plus, the women aren't bad either.
If you want > $70k CDN/year, you'll have to poke around, but the jobs are there if you're as good as you think you are. I can't overstate the cost and quality of life on the east coast. People are _nice_ to you. :)
Kudos
..don't panic
One interesting correlation between hi-technology and the people who live in them is the tolerance of the area for alternative lifetsyles according to a recent article in the Austin American Statesman. Apparently both groups of people, gays and hi-tech workers, are looking for the same type of place to live.
There are many US basied tech firms with offices here and English is an official language. Seems like an IT revolution is on in India. (That and the fact that there were a few recent Miss Universes from India)
Home of the HyperLink. Good things: errr, you can work at BT. Labs. property is cheap beer is cheap Bad things: the women are ugly (although they will want to sleep with you, something about fresh genes or some such) the nightlife is... limited.
--------------------------------------------- "In the end, we're all just water and old stars."
Ireland seems like one of those overseas places that is booming, because:
a) it's close to the States (roughly - you can't walk, but you know what I mean)
b) they speak English over here
c) it's in the EU
d) the government is giving HUGE tax breaks to businesses in order to get them over here.
Java/C++ people in Dublin are getting the most attention, as there are a lot of companies with big plans but no people to carry them out. Everyone from Dell to Micro$oft to Intel are looking for people who know how to do IT, and the government is finally catching up to the demand. They recently lowered the bar for US citizens coming over to Ireland, and made it much easier to get work authorization (see here and here for government info - I like the part about being an 'IT Specialist' - heh). One company is now considering delaying their major construction and expansion of their chip plant because they can't find enough people to work there.
The country is broken up into two parts, it seems: Dublin and everywhere else. Dublin is like a medium-to-large sized town in the States, with a good social life and clubbing, nice and friendly people (not like New York, more like, um... Chicago! Go Cubs!), and some of the most beautiful countryside you'll see around.
I'll stop rambling: here's some more links.
Move to Ireland - a site on what you should do to move; very helpful.
IrishJobs - one of a number of job sites for the burgeoning working populace (like you).
Ireland Department of Foreign Affairs - another government website, good links.
And yes - I moved over here, and it's pretty cool. The only drawbacks are that there's no Taco Bell (argh!) and no ESPN on the TV (AAARRRGGGHHH!!!). But hey, what the hell.
Good luck!
Will
Only problem with Vancouver is you're competing with a few thousand PhD people who ran over here from Hong Kong for the exact same reason - so it might be harder to find a job than you think. The bare minimum for good employment there is a post-grad degree (although, if you've got a BSc. Eng or CS, or a MCS you should have no problem). Our immigration laws are a lot more sane, although nobody wants to move to Saskatchewan, hehe.
Come on over to the east coast and get some non-americanized Canadian culture :).
Kudos!
..don't panic
About Amsterdam - if you're planning to move to the city center it would be best if your employer can arrange a place to live for you (and foot the bill).
We called several estate agencies and the message was uniformly 'sorry, there just too much demand for too few places.'
The few places we did see were about the same price as one would pay in London.
Great games
As as German living in the US, I have a bias towards Europe. When I return there, I will consider one of these options:
Berlin. Huge place, largest city in Europe. Tons of money are pouring into the place, even though right now it's still one big construction site. My feeling is it will become more and more the German show piece, so lots of things will be "firsts" in Berlin. Deutsche Telekom (most hated in Germany, btw) is planning flat-rate DSL rollout this summer, so eventually connectivity will be good. Personally, I'm biased towards large metropolitan cities (despite where I live right now!), and Berlin definitely fits the bill. Road infrastructure is good and getting even better with more city freeways. The surroundings are pretty good too, with lots of lakes and stuff to do, especially up north towards the Baltic.
However, I'm not sure I want to live in Germany again. For one, my wife is American and doesn't speak a lick of Deutsch. Besides, I'm sick of Germany for various reasons: Germans are very conservative overall--politically, socially, economically, financially, technologically. True, lots of tech came out of Germany this century, but those were different times, when Germans were still adventurous. Now they're used to the good life and don't want to jeopardize it with any "risky business". Most bright and open minds have left for the US long ago.
Also, Germans can be incredibly rude, especially in the service industries. I've never been treated with more indifference and contempt than in German shops and restaurants. And that at hourly wages many times more than in the US, where you get better service regardless.
Add to that a strong dose of arrogance. Germans still think of their country as the leading edge in all the areas that made it great, completely ignoring that times have changed and the world has moved on. While they certainly haven't missed the train yet, they need to wake up and smell the coffee--and I'm not sure they're capable of that anymore.
Ireland. Seems to be really booming in the IT area. Life should be a lot cheaper than in most of Europe, though I'm sure that'll change. Language is English (well, arguably anyway), and the people are reportedly very friendly, especially after being lubricated with some ale. However, the weather is reputed to be bad a lot of the time. It's also pretty far from the Continent. I'd be interested to know how long it takes to get to the mainland, and at what cost.
Spain. One of the cheapest European countries, except for telecom. Friendly people, great weather most of the time. After living in Australia and the southern US, I'm not sure I can return to cold climates again, so Spain is a strong favorite there. The language is a problem since my Spanish is worse than my Swahili, and I don't speak Swahili. I don't know how far English will get you in Spain either. But I'm willing to learn, so that should count for something .
Amsterdam. It's on the Continent, so there's easy access to everywhere. Everybody speaks English, and good English at that. It's quite a high-tech city from what I hear, so that's a plus.
Other than these options, I can't think of anything else. Eastern Europe won't be an option for at least another decade, their infrastructure simply sucks.
Americans looking at Europe should keep the following things in mind in general. They're not show stoppers, but they can be very irritating in day-to-day life.
-cost of gas. Europe sucks the blood out of you there. Filling up a mid-size sedan runs about $50. On the flip side, there's a plethora of public transportation, and you don't need a car as much as in the US, but it depends on where you live. If you're used to the US lifestyle of two cars no matter what, that can get pretty expensive.
-cost of housing. Rents are high, houses cost even more. I only know about Germany, but I assume things are similar everythere. Most houses in Germany start at $400,000 or so and go up, up, up. There's really no equivalent of the small three bedroom suburban house for $100,000. Properties are really expensive ($150 a square meter in many places, do the math for acres), often running almost as much as the house. Therefore people build big expensive houses to make it worthwhile. Get ready to pay for the rest of your life (and maybe your children's lives) for your house.
-communications. Most European telephone companies were only recently privatised, and they're still dragging their feet. They're simply used to monopoly status and price their services accordingly. In most places even local calls are metered, so staying online with your ISP will cost you a bunch. The ISP costs themselves are comparable to the US, the real killer are the phone company charges. Downloading a Linux distribution will probably cost you more than buying the boxed version. However, it's a fast-paced field and a lot of competition is arriving. In many countries DSL is starting to arrive, and along with it flat rate Internet access. With respect to DSL, I don't think Europe is far behind the US, where it's still impossible to get DSL in most places and will be for the next 5 to 10 years.
-culture. Americans are used to travel all over the US and still remain within their cultural context: same language, same politics, same restaurants, same TV and media. Travel that much in Europe, and your head will spin. No language is truly common to all of Europe (though English is the official language of the EU). No TV is common, you have to adjust to what's available in each country; and while people on the street might speak some English, the evening news most certainly will be in the local language. Magazines and newspapers differ widely, too, though you will find many international ones also. People's lifestyles and attitudes differ incredibly, and you can make no safe assumptions except with time and experience. Don't forget, these are still independent countries, proud of their differences and heritage. In the US we can all make a joke about the South and rednecks and all, safe in the knowledge that we're all Americans after all. In Europe, make a joke about another European nation and you're liable to get your head bashed in if the wrong people stand around.
All in all, you can live quite nicely in Europe--300 million people do it every day and wouldn't be anywhere else. But be prepared for a serious culture shock for the first few months. I know of a lot of people who went through serious depression until they got used to the place. Eventually most people settle in and like it a whole lot.
Uwe Wolfgang Radu
He said "cheaply connected", and it's pretty much true nowadays (if you live in the right area). It's certainly not as cheap as the States, but you can get a 1Mbps cable connection for around 5000 yen (~$US45), an ADSL connection for about 10,000 yen (~$US90), or a 128Kbps dedicated line for 32000 yen (~$US290). Dial-up is expensive because of NTT's monopolistic deathgrip on the domestic telecommunications market, but that might be getting cheaper RSN...
I'm offered a job in London that would more than double my salary in Paris .. and I would'nt be much better off considering taxes and cost of living. London is probably the most expensive city in city in the world, all considered. Housing is more expensive than NYC or the Valley, maybe just slightly less so than Tokyo or Hong Kong, and then you have a crappy weather (rain, rain, rain ...), and on top of that goods are very expensive. I hear though that with a good tax advisor you can save a bundle, but the legality of it is doubtful, somehow. ;) LOL
Paris has not so bad taxes compared to the rest of Europe. Actually, if you have kids you'll probably end up paying less income taxes than anywhere in western Europe.
We have semi working ADSL (ok pricing, not very reliable and some tech. problems though), working cable connectivity in some areas (but with upload limitations that may make it extremely expensive but for the casual surfer).
Also the Telecom industry is being forcefully opened -- the telecom regulation authority is making quite a good job of breaking the existing monopoly.
The city life is getting better (10 years ago it was sad) with some good stuff happening, and there's a trend to make it more environment friendly (less cars).
The weather is balanced, not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter, not too much rain (that's, compared to London or Amsterdam!).
It's not as crowded as London or NYC. Crime is rather low.
No drinking age (I would be extremely surprised if a 13 y.o. was denied buying a beer). Age of consent, 15. No fscking moron telling you what's good or bad (that's compared to the US). If you're into haschisch, it's not that great, still not yet liberated (despite having a few ministers in office publicly claiming to smoke or having smoked), personally I don't like it anyway. No stupid political sex scandals as in the UK, as nobody gives a fuck.
Lots of easy female US tourists
Good food. I can't believe I forgot to mention that. Good cheap wine. Bad cheap beer.
Doing business with french people is strange at times. I mostly work with foreigners, personally.
It's not absolutely great, but it's really ok.
As you come into town from the airport, there's a big sign proclaiming that you are now entering the Silicon Valley of Mexico.
Guadalajara has a couple of high tech plants there (disk drives, I think -- I'm not entirely sure). When I was there in January, I was surprised by the Internet connectivity. Walking around town, there were Internet cafes and computer stores every couple of blocks.
You'll want to pick up some Spanish for living in Mexico, that's for sure. But most people in Guadalajara speak a little English -- they've got the university there, plus there's a community of about 2,000 American expatriates living on the outskirts of town. I found it a little frustrating since I wanted to practice my Spanish and everyone kept trying to talk to me in English.
Finally, the cost of good tequila is very low there, as the town of Tequila is only 60km away.
The people are very friendly, the cost of living is really low, and it's a major city so there's lots going on and the populace is used to foreigners. What more could you want? A tech job? They've got those, too!
Oh, go on, check out my job.
I can't imagine a place much better than Ashland, OR (pop. 18,000). Here's what it took to get me to move, and stay, here:
The city has its own fibre optic network over which it offers Internet access and cable television. The local cable company does the same. Yes, Ashland may be the only place on the planet where you can choose your cable company! High speed Internet access can be had for $20.00 a month.
Good jobs. There are lots of high tech firms that are hiring. Almost all sects of computing (Microsoft, Open Source, Mac) are represented. Wages are not as high as in the big cities, but there not bad, either.
Proximity to a larger city. Medford (pop. 45,000) is only 15 miles away, and has a Barnes and Noble for those late night book runs.
Good restaurants. A good Thai joint is a necessity. We've got two. The local breweries and cafes are very good, too.
An economy not based on local natural resources. Other similar sized towns in Oregon have languished because of a reliance on the timber and fishing industries, which are waning. Ashland has embraced tourism and high tech and is flourishing.
Good schools. Ashland has exellent schools, consistently outscoring the neighboring community's schools in both math and reading. Ashland also has a University with a better than average Computer Science program.
No commute. I live on the very edge of town and my commute is less than 5 minutes. By bike it's 10.
A liberal minded community. Ashland has great diversity in both individual and family lifestyles. People who would be outcasts in other places are accepted, or at least tolerated, in Ashland.
Good outdoor recreation. When I'm tired of looking at a CRT, I can drive 20 minutes and be hiking in old growth forest.
Unfortunetly, much of what I value cannot be reproduced in somplace like Pittsburgh. I feel that the best places are no longer in the big cities. Small, foward thinking, towns seem so much better, particularly if your a geek with a family.
I've been living for London for about a year now doing mainly contract work. I came over here on a student work visa that is soon about to end.
My impressions of London are as follows:
Very expensive. I pay £300/month for flat in central London (Whitechapel). It is a slum. Mice/rats and mushrooms growing in the bathroom. Yuck. Everything else is expensive as well. It was recently (and in the past) named the most expensive city in Europe.
Very oppressive. Public transport is hideously expensive. If you live in London unless you want to spend money to get out...you are stuck. Luckily if you are doing IT you have a lot of money...Also there is a lot to do here, but it is honestly a pain in the ass to get around the city.
Money: London is full of dot.coms and web consultancies and tons of vacancies. Basic knowledge of any web technology will get you a job. I got my first job six months ago with a few months knowledge of Perl and a lot of balls. I was making £20/hr. I was meant to write Perl/CGI/DBI scripts. I barely knew Perl. As they say here, I blagged it. 6 months and 4 contracts later I've learned a great deal and am now making the ridiculous sum of £50/hr. I see job adverts all the time for £60+ outside of London. For me this is a lot, maybe its not for you Silicon-Valley-startup-share-option-millionares.
Alas, immigration laws are stringent. Unless you get a company to sponser you for a visa or do the student program I did you can't work here. Once you get the visa, you can ONLY work for the company that hired you. They are relaxing the laws because they finally realized that their economy will suffer if they don't fill the vacancies but as of now its very difficult to work in the UK.
The current issue of Wired has a list of the 40 biggest tech cities in the world (this is the issue that has Sealand as its cover story). They rated the cities by the VC coming in to the cities, the start-ups in the cities, the established tech companies in the cities, and industry ties with local colleges and universities. This doesn't quite tell you what cities will be geek friendly but it will give you a good idea of where your skills will be most wanted and a lot of the time if companies are looking for a lot of geeks they will try and make the people in the city geek friendly, especially if its a city where one of these companies employs many of the city residents.
-Grant
|grant.henninger.name|
Well, being a native of Reikjavik I can give you some idea how things are here.
I think the situation is pretty good here. Lots of things going on tech-wise, icelanders are indeed very quick to grab new gadgets and technologies, I think that f.ex. the number of cellphones per capita is about the highest in the world (second only to Finland, I think). Almost every home in the country is connected to the internet, many ISP's and several free ones, ADSL is available everywhere and cable connection in several areas in the city, although not everywhere. There are a lot of firms ranging from low-level programming to high-class multimedia and should be fairly easy to find a job as the labourmarket is fluid and unemployment rate is very low.
Plus, the people are friendly and everybody speaks english fluently (a problem if you wanna learn the local language!) and the nightlife is phenomenal!.
Gummi
Bavaria is Germany's best performing region economically, but the rest
is a mixed bag. Culturally, it's very conservative. The Oktoberfest
are at best a mixed blessing: who wants 1 million foreigners puking in
your front garden? Food is great though, as is the beer (though my
preference is for the North German stuff).
This place is a fascinating mix of east and west.
Net geeks lean heavily to the libertarian side and HK is definitely one of the freest countries in Asia.
No net censorship here a la Singapore and Australia. Free press, laissez-faire government. You're also free to chew gum. :) HK is consistently chosen as the freest economy in the world. Low flat tax. No sales tax.
For English speaking geeks, they should be able to fit right in as there is a sizable expatriate population and English and Chinese are the official languages.
Plenty of start-ups here. There's a culture of entrepreneurship born out of the place's immigrant roots. Some interesting sites:
now.com
comicinema
Lots of cutting edge tech. People are gadget crazy here just like in Japan. One of the highest rates of cell phone usage here, behind only Nokia-land, aka the Scandinavian countries. People change cell phones like clothes. WAP is already widespread here and i-mode is coming soon. Broadband is rapidly being adopted. Had the world's first interactive TV system.
Great food, HK movies, excellent public transportation system. Clean subways, trams, buses, ferries, even the world's longest escalator that cuts through the city up the hills!
Downer: pollution. That's the major complaint that people have but it's getting better. Also high cost of housing. Prices have dropped in the past few years but costs probably rival those of Tokyo and SF.
Oh yeah. And there's Starbucks, CNN and CNBC if you're into that sort of thing.
If you speak English and only English and don't want to learn another language, your options are somewhat limited. The UK is incredibly expensive and for the most part ugly. Telecommunications aren't nearly as subsidised or state-supported generally, which means that nowadays you pay the same rates in the UK as elsewhere, but you can't take advantage of new infrastructure. Ireland is coming around with the growth of high tech there, but you still have to live in one of Europe's most deeply conservative countries.
Australia is okay if you can command a tech's income. Otherwise, recent dismantling of the school system and social services makes it awful. Public transit isn't very good there either. It is in many ways the worst of America combined with he worst of Britain.
New Zealand has been a mess for years. Stay clear.
English Canada is okay, but either you pay a fortune to live in Toronto or Vancouver or you live in dull, cold secondary centres with little to offer the tech or anyone else.
Montreal is cheap, very tech oriented, and has cheap DSL and cable modems as well as a first rate telecom infrastructure, but good knowledge of French improves the experience dramatically. Ottawa is a bit of a compromise between Toronto and Montreal, cheap and dull, fairly high tech, and somewhat French.
It is possible to live in Brussels with only English. It won't be as much fun, but it is possible. Brussels and the university towns of Leuven and Louvain-la-neuve are fully wired for cable modems and as I understand it DSL is now available. Rates are good. Rent is high, but not as much as in Silicon Valley.
Paris is still an excellent place to live, if you can afford the rent which is at roughly Silicon Valley levels. The French telecommunications system has come back from being one of Europe's worst 20 years ago to one of Europe's best and most modern. If Paris costs too much, Lyon, Toulouse, Strasbourg and the new high tech centres at Sophia Antipolis and Grenoble have a lot to recommend themnselves, including topless beaches or good skiing.
I'm told Barcelona in Spain and Coimbra in Portugal are pretty good - at least for relatively cheap and poor European countries - but you can't live there with English alone.
I haven't lived in Germany in years, but it doesn't strike me as a haven of high-tech. Leipzig and Chemnitz used to be the communist Silicon Valley before reunification, but I doubt they're much now. Perhaps the newly rebuilt Berlin is good for tech, but I want to remember the cool, artsy, punk West Berlin that was. Without it, I don't think I'd want to live there.
Stay away from the major west German cities. They are all post-war ugly construction. And, German taxes are out of control. France or Belgium are much better on that count.
I'm told Stockholm and Göteborg are good to techs these days, as well as the area around Uppsala, but I can't verify this. Finland is reputed to be the most wired nation in Europe, with more than three-quarters of the population online. In Sweden, you can survive on English alone. In Finland, it's a bit harder. Plus any idiot can learn Swedish - it's pretty easy to do - but Finnish is extremely hard.
I've never lived in Italy or the Netherlands. Switzerland is home to a lot of high tech now, and things are getting better there, but you have to put up with a lot of boredom to live in Switzerland.
Outside Europe and the Americas, Bangalore is the place to be in India. They speak English and have most of India's high tech sector. Compared to the US and Europe, it's reputed to be dirt cheap. In China, Hong Kong is the most wired city, but also the most expensive. Guangdong, Shanghai and Beijing are supposed to be pretty modern and have good computer infrastructure. Taiwan is also a well wired country, but it is pretty expensive. Of course, learning Chinese may pose some barriers to integration. Singapore is wired and anglophone, but expensive and deeply conservative. Malaysia is cheaper, and quite high tech now, but still very conservative. Japan is just expensive, and no longer quite the paragon of technology it used to be.
As far as I know, that covers your options.
I've lived all over the place searching out hi tech jobs. For outside the US, here is my list in order of techiness, not in order of livability
London and M4 corridor without a doubt the hi-tech consumption leader outside the US. London has the city, with its outrageous salaries and rents to match. All the tech companies stretch out towards the west, following the M4 motorway. Best nightlife in europe, and traffic sucks.
Dublin Lots of development following the dual carriageways north, south, and west from the city. The nightlife is friendly but muted and it ends too early for my tastes. Home of Guiness.
Netherlands Several areas around the netherlands are good for technology. Utrecht is a university town, to the tech is good but the salaries are bad. Cable and DSL are appearing all over the place. Amsterdam has good tech, and Rotterdam is starting to take off despite it being a big ugly port city.
France The frenchies are starting to pull their heads out of their asses, and technology is starting to become cool. Paris now has a few startup centres where the hyper-cool hang out, with a level of pretentiousness that puts san francisco dot-commies to shame. There are a few other tech centres, but they don't have that entrepreneurial spirit. Grenoble has tons of hi tech, but is too distant and not wired. Sophia poses as hi tech, but the riviera is still rural french work ethos meets tourist ripoff. You will have to learn fluent french, but your english will make you very valuable.
Belgium There is a lot of hi tech starting up here. Cable and DSL are spreading around Brussels and east to Leuven, and a few other big cities. Brussels can be a fun place, it's home to the commission, and employs many young, single women. The nightlife revolves around drinking, and most everyone speaks english.
Torino Turin is becoming home to many hi tech companies as the automotive industries evolve. Italian is a must, though. But it is centrally located to the alps and the riviera.
Singapore Tech heaven. Life is hell.
South AfricaCapetown is the nicest, but jo-burg has the connectivity.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on