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Red Hat 7.0 Beta Is Out
Thorkild writes: "The subject says it all. They just opened up the directories on
the mirror sites." If you can't find it without me telling you where it is, then you shouldn't be running a Beta Red Hat 7.0 ;)
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I like to download slightly buggy debian packages and write to an author and say, "hey, this is a little bit messed up"
Sure, we listen to those, as well. If you don't want to use bugzilla for whatever reason, just pick the latest name in the changelog.
Chances are you'll get a reply, even if it takes a while (we get a lot of them, I'm admittedly about 500 mails behind at the moment).
I also like a minimalist base install
We've fixed that up for 7.0. (Pick custom install and select individual packages, then don't select anything).
We're down to 30 or so packages in a minimal install.
Why do distros feel the need to come with a shitload of software?
In some countries, net connections are terribly expensive, and the average computer store (unfortunately) still doesn't carry a lot of Linux software or mirrors of Linux ftp servers, so we're better off including a lot of things.
Including it on the CDs doesn't mean you have to install it... That's what custom installs are there for.
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How could it not "stay true to the look and feel of Unix"? Red Hat does not remove your ability to hack your system from the command line any more than Slakware does.
It does however provide simpler tools to do it. I learned how to use linux on Red Hat. I used the tools to do what I didn't yet know how to, and I used the command line to do whatr i had already learned as I learned more I used the Red Hat tools less and less until I finally switched distros (Red Hat won't miss me I never paid them for it anyway). If I couldn't do it that way, I (and many others) would still be using, god-forbid, Windows.
And if more people start using linux with Red Hat, well that just makes me happier.
Devil Ducky
Devil Ducky
MY peers would get out of jury duty.
Tux is still being worked on. Apache is probably being held for Tux.
They've been burned by bind once already.
Staroffice will be Open Source in October. It's not open source yet.
Which LVM tool?
We're compiling some selected packages with optimizations - that way, we can still run on a 386, but get most of the speed out of optimizations.
Also, since we're using gcc 2.96, the generated 386 code is probably somewhat faster than the "optimized" code earlier versions produced.
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Each time the version number of glibc is increased by 0.0.1, Red Hat grabs the new version and uses it to bounce up its version number by 1.0
Entirely untrue.
We increase the major version number when there are changes that will prevent stuff compiled on the new version to run on the old version without being recompiled.
For 7.0, that's caused by the change of compilers (C++ binary incompatibility) and glibc (2.2, not 2.1.8).
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What's missing:
sendmail 8.11
Missing from the beta, present in our current tree (and definitely the final).
kernel 2.4test5ac
Actually it's there, on the 2nd CD and not installed by default because it's known to have some critical bugs.
tux 1.0
Needs kernel 2.4
apache 2.0pre4
Chances are 2.0 won't be released in time for 7.0. It'll probably be in 7.1 (and I'll make RPMs for 7.0 available as soon as I have the time).
bind 9.0
Same as for apache - I'm actually using the 9.0.0 release candidate to host bero.org, but it has a couple of problems, like some missing utilities, and requires all master zones to be changed because the TTL stuff is now mandatory (and most people haven't used it with bind 8), so there's no really clean update path. Not something we could do in the couple of days between the 9.0.0rc1 release and the beta.
staroffice
It's still binary-only, they've just announced they'll GPL it by October 13th. We'll include it once that happened, until then, it will be on the Linux Applications CD in the boxed sets.
LVM
It's present in the 2.4 kernel we're shipping.
reiserfs
Too unstable at the moment. They keep changing the journal format, and the recovery tools aren't quite where they should be.
Yes, reiserfs is nice while it works (I'm actually using it on one of my machines), but if something doesn't work and a journal replay doesn't fix it, you're usually in trouble.
I'll make a kernel RPM with the patch available over at people.redhat.com/bero/experimental when I have the time (probably shortly after the 7.0 release) for those who want to play - but for now, we don't feel we can support it.
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Red Hat Beta 6.0, 6.1 and Alpha 6.2 which include the newest and most unstable of all releases.
You must be using a different 6.2 than the rest of the world then...
If you have any issues with 6.2, report them - we can't fix problems we aren't aware of. Considering my web server (running 6.2) has had an uptime of 103 days before I rebooted it for a kernel upgrade, I'd hardly call it alpha-quality code.
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With almost all distributions (including Red Hat), most drivers are built as modules. Because you often need those drivers at boot time, Red Hat puts the modules you need into a ram disk image that gets used before your root partition is mounted. Personally, I like to rebuild my kernel with all critical drivers built in so as to avoid this ram disk.
So how do you find out what drivers you need?
Well, to start, use the command `lsmod` to see which modules are loaded. That should tell you which network driver you need to build.
Why does there need to the start of beta? Should not all distributions be continuously in beta?
Yes. And we are. Check out Raw Hide, which is actually a snapshot of our current development work, updated every couple of days.
Our official betas are when we decide something has all the features we need in the final version, and generate ISO images to make it available to a broader group of people.
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I have been keeping up with RawHide and I haven't seen anything going which would warrant a 7.0 designation
All the major number increase means is that an application compiled on a 7.0 system won't run on a 6.x system without being recompiled (because of the glibc and compiler upgrades).
Binary compatibility throughout a major number release is very important to us (do you think we LIKED keeping egcs 1.1.2 as the primary compiler in 6.2?).
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I can not understand why redhat doesn't include any of the two available free (speech) SECSH (ssh2) implementations in their standard distribution. This would be a very simple step towards a much more secure out-of-the-box product. The crypto-regulations in the US shouldnt be a problem since OpenSSH and others are distributed by default.
Oh come on, we can all see straight through that!
:-)
We all know the REAL reason you release so often is because is gets announced on slashdot and you write replies to everyones comments. Your replies all get modded up to +5 and your karma soars.
THAT is why RH really releases so often - You simply want more karma.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
Gorkman
Not for now, because it's too unstable (journal format changing every couple of releases), and once you've managed to mess up a filesystem beyond what a journal replay can fix, chances are you're in trouble with reiserfs.
Once it has stabilized, we'll include it unless something better comes along before that.
For 7.0, I'll put up a kernel RPM with the ReiserFS patch on http://people.redhat.com/bero/experimen tal/ when I have the time (probably shortly after the 7.0 release) for those who want to play, but don't say I didn't warn you.
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It's Linux 7.0 that's out. See, all my favorite commercial apps say they require "Linux 6.2" to run, so therefore this latest version must be Linux 7.0. And we all know the commercial programs must be right because they can afford to sell the products. If this GNOME thing was any good, they would sell that too.
BTW, what's this "kernel" thing people keep talking about?
(hey mods, it's a joke)
--
Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.
Bero - it's not about patching the kernel - everyone can patch the kernel easily...
Its about installation. Mandrake 7.1 gives you the ability to create a ReiserFS and a swap partitions - and thats it! you don't need another ext2 partition for booting etc.. - and THATS the beauty here..
So, what about releasing a boot/root disk that will add the options to create a ReiserFS in addition of ext2? like Mandrake does...
Hetz (Heunique)
It's little things like that that can really irk your support base... the pointy hairs might not notice, but we do.
---
I haven't installed it yet, but it looks as thought the Logical Volume Manager tools still aren't packaged with the distro. This concerns me. This is among several concerns I have about RedHat's future directions. I've always liked redhat (since the Mother's Day release back in the day) and especially have appreciated their attempt to balance the new and fancy with stability and security.
But recently they've been failing on both fronts. Suse seems to be taking the lead on new features (with their support of X drivers, and shipping LVM and reiserfs), and Redhat has slipped on the security front. Redhat took two weeks (two weeks!) to issue patches the the last round of security problems affecting the 2.2.14 kernel. Not the 24-hour turnaround I've come to expect.
I suspect the distro will be good in other respects, though.
less and less to those who seek to immerse themselves in the goodness of a unix environment (bad).
/etc with vi and hack till your heart's content.
how does RedHat (or any distributon, for that matter) lessen the potential for total immersion in the unix environment? it's not like the graphical admin tools and scripts that are provided mean that you can no longer go into
skip automatic hardware detection, don't set up TCP/IP at install time, don't install any windows managers, and certainly don't install GNOME or KDE. there you go...its thin'n'crispy (tm) just like unix 'should be'.
on the other hand, you can install all the bells and whistles if you'd like, and pretend the technical details don't exist
i thought this whole 'choice' thing was what linux was about?
Well, this is great news for the community since like it or not, public perception of Linux comes from what RedHat are doing more than any other organisation - hence this'll be seen as Linux 7.0, which sounds better to the newbie than Linux 2.4.0-test3 :)
It does seem that people who are long-term Linux users don't use RedHat anymore, maybe because it has been geared towards the "newbie", but at the end of the day surely Linux is Linux, and you can set up any distribution how you like given a bit of time.
Still Linux does need something aimed at helping newer users overcome the initial "fear factor" of running Linux. Whether you like it or not, by doing so they're doing everyone a favour in the long run. So although I don't use it, I wish them all the best and hope this release goes well for them.
It would be great if the installation routine could create a .config file in /usr/src/linux that would match the current installation and hardware! I can't build a new kernel because I can't figure out what network card I have (/proc/pci says one thing, conf.modules says something completely different, I can't find the chip on the motherboard, and nothing I've tried works anyway). However, the installation itself knows what hardware I have, but if I try to build another kernel, I have to manually figure it all out. There is no reason for this.
The installation routine should generate a .config based on the hardware it has detected and the options the user chose during the installation. In other words, I should be able to build the kernel from /usr/src/linux without specifying any options, and it should work!
--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
The latest kernel is 2.40.pre5 (It's upgrade time for me.)
I was looking at Redhat-beta-pinstripe on sourceforge, and they do have SRPMS for
XFree86-4.0.1
kernel-2.2.16-17
and
kernel24-2.4.0-0.16
So their hopes must be pretty high. I bet the final release of 7.0 will have kernel 2.4.1, at least as an option. The big selling point will probably be the GLX support for the i810, rage128, matrox, voodoo3, etc.
They do have support for Xfree86-3.3.6, though, so they may be hedging their bets.
Let's see, most comp-usa's and other retailers that are nervous about selling linux to begin with are going to be stuck with shelves full of 6.2 releases when the 7.0 release comes out ov beta in 30-60 days... Man, if I was a retailer I would really think twice about stocking RedHat on my shelves. First it's not selling as fast as the other (OK Win isn't selling either but 98 is still a current release... millenium isnt expected for another 24 months, and noone likes 2000) so here's this upstart that makes me eat 20 copies of their software every 3 months. Example : I start with 6.0 - 6.1 comes out then 6.2 and now 7.0 beta means 7.0 final is soon. this is all within the past 12 months... As a store manager, I would have to make a decision to not carry redhat on my shelves as it is too "unstable"
I fear that RedHat will drive the penguin out of the retail market faster than any MS generated FUD could .
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Picture things in 2 years, we're going to have Redhat Version 14, Slackware Version 15.1, and SuSE 42.
They're going to have to stop the insanity eventually! :)
Who's the black private dick, who's a sex machine for all the chicks?
That's just wonderful...
I just got the RHCE certification (didn't really care about it but my company insisted on paying for it, so who am i to argue?). Since the certification is specifically for RH6.2, and that it will expire at the end of the RH7.x serie (that's what the instructor said anyway, but nobody is really sure) - at the rate RH is going that should be in a year or so?
As I said, I am glad my company paid for this. Considering how much it cost ($700 just for the test), and how soon it becomes obsolete, I would NEVER have paid for it.
Announcing...
h at/beta/pinstripe/ d hat/beta/pinstripe/
a t/beta/pinstripe/ h at/beta/pinstripe/
t a/pinstripe/ e ta/pinstripe/
/ pinstripe/ a /pinstripe/
r edhat.com/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
n stripe
/ redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
/ beta/pinstripe/
a /pinstripe/ t /beta/pinstripe/
i pe/ r ipe/
i nstripe/
i nstripe/ p instripe/
/ redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
i nstripe/
h at/beta/pinstripe/
/usr/man is now /usr/share/man
/usr/doc is now /usr/share/doc
/usr/info is now /usr/share/info
/home so it may be automounted.
Red Hat Linux "Pinstripe"
a Beta release
Red Hat. Inc. presents a beta release of Red Hat Linux for your
hacking pleasure. First, the regular drill:
This is a beta release of Red Hat Linux. It is not intended for
mission critical applications. It's not even intended for
non-mission critical applications. Important data should not be
entrusted to Pinstripe, as it may eat it and make loud belching
noises.
Significant changes have been made since the last version of Red Hat
Linux. We need your help to find and report bugs. Search for
existing bug reports for problems you find by using bugzilla at:
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/
Attach patches if you're motivated!
This beta includes so much cutting edge software, the binary packages
come on two iso images. The installation program now handles reading
packages from multiple CDs.
* Where can I get this release?
Pinstripe can be downloaded from our public FTP site at:
ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe
With the support of volunteers ftp site administrators, Pinstripe is
available from several mirrors. The following have complete copies of
Pinstripe, please use a mirror close to you:
North Carolina, USA:
ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/red
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/re
California, USA:
ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redh
http://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/red
California, USA:
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/be
http://www.kernel.org/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/b
Connecticut, USA:
ftp://ftp.uselinux.org/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Indiana, USA:
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/beta
http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/bet
Michigan, USA:
ftp://mrhankey.bizserve.com/pub/linux/redhat/ftp.
New York, USA:
ftp://ftp.ee.cornell.edu/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pi
Pennsylvania, USA:
ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions
Pennsylvania, USA:
ftp://cronus.res.cmu.edu/pub/linux/ftp.redhat.com
Tennessee, USA:
ftp://sunsite.utk.edu/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/bet
http://sunsite.utk.edu/ftp/pub/linux/redhat/redha
Australia:
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/redhat/beta/pinstr
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/redhat/beta/pinst
Germany:
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/mirrors/redhat.com/redhat/beta/p
Germany:
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/redhat/beta/p
http://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/redhat/beta/
Norway:
(ISO images only)
ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions
Peru:
ftp://sajino.terra.com.pe/pub/linux/redhat/beta/p
Japan:
ftp://ftp.kddlabs.co.jp/Linux/packages/RedHat/red
* What's new in this beta?
General system improvements:
o FHS compliant packaging of files
See http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ for more information
o Document roots for Apache and anonymous FTP are removed from
o Packages with services are automatically restarted on live
upgrades
o Expanded LDAP integration
o Expanded Kerberos integration
Core system components:
o glibc 2.1.91
o XFree86 4.0.1, XFree86 4.0.1 runtime environment
o XFree86 3.3.6 X servers included for maximum hardware compatibility
o GNOME 1.2
o kernel 2.2.16
o GCC 2.96
Expanded hardware support:
o Basic USB support (mouse and keyboards)
o Expanded hardware accelerated 3-D support
System service changes:
o inetd replaced by xinetd
o BSD lpr replaced by LPRng
A sampling of package upgrades:
o GIMP 1.1.24
o Perl 5.6.0
o Tcl/Tk 8.3.1
A sampling of Package additions:
o SDL, smpeg
o SANE
o gphoto
o MySQL
o AbiWord
o dia
o ispell has been replaced by aspell
o XEmacs
Next generation development library previews included:
o pango: Unicode font rendering
See http://www.pango.org/
o Inti: C++ foundation libraries including GTK+ GUI toolkit classes
See http://sources.redhat.com/inti/
Enjoy!
The OS Development Team
Red Hat, Inc.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Here's what's new about RH 7.0:
perl 5.60
php 4.01 - speed boost over version 3
mysql - now open source, no longer just in power tools
XFree86 4.01 - speed boost over version 3
enterprise kernel - raw filesystems and other performance patches
kde 1.91 - beta for 2.0, includes new browser
kde office 1.91
And what's missing:
sendmail 8.11 - crypto smtp
kernel 2.4test5ac - decent smp performance
tux 1.0 - very fast RedHat kernel web server
apache 2.0pre4
bind 9.0 - major rewrite
staroffice - now it's open source
LVM
reiserfs
Sendmail and staroffice aren't beta and should have gone into this release, the rest are probably too bleeding edge. Anyone think of anything I've missed?
With the support of volunteers ftp site administrators, Pinstripe is available from several mirrors. The following have complete copies of Pinstripe, please use a mirror close to you:
North Carolina, USA:r ipe/ s tripe/
ftp://metalab. unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/beta/pinst
http://metala b.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/beta/pin
California, USA:p e/ r ipe/
ftp://ftp.sourc eforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstri
http://ftp.sou rceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinst
California, USA: /pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
ftp://ftp.kernel.org
http://www.kernel.o rg/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Connecticut, USA: /beta/pinstripe/
ftp://ftp.uselinux.org/pub/redhat
Indiana, USA: .purdue.edu/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn
http://csociety-ftp.e cn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Michigan, USA: ftp://mrhankey.bizserve.com/pub/linux/redhat/ftp.r edhat.com/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
New York, USA: ftp://ftp.ee.cornell.edu/p ub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe
Pennsylvania, USA: ftp ://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/red hat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Pennsylvania, USA: ftp://cronus.res. cmu.edu/pub/linux/ftp.redhat.com/beta/pinstripe/
Tennessee, USA: ftp://sunsite.utk.edu /pub/linux/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/ /
http://sunsite.u tk.edu/ftp/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe
Australia: ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pu b/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/ pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Germany: ftp://ftp.gmd.de/mirrors /redhat.com/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Germany: .de/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.d e/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
http://ftp.uni-bayreuth
Norway: (ISO images only) ftp ://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/red hat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Peru: ftp://sajino.terra.com.p e/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Japan: ftp://ftp.kddl abs.co.jp/Linux/packages/RedHat/redhat/beta/pinstr ipe/
Truth to tell no difference at all. Except, Debian always ships with much older and more stable versions of many packages. This way, it looks more stable as a whole.
Either than this, they are all the same. They all package free (as in freedom) software developed by someone else.
RedHat however has the best balance when it comes to ease-of-use/stability/quality/support....
It has also built a good brandname, kindda like Sony for electronics. Sony stuff might not always be the best, but you know it's among the best.
As for hardcore geeks prefering Debian. I think it's mostly the "I don't use what newbies use" attitude or maybe it's "I use something very few use"
Anyway, conclusion: they are 90% same stuff with some version number difference.
The kernel needs a Gtk/Gnome-based post-install device configuration tools "a la" make xconfig. (Better sig coming soon
s/needing/supporting/g
For a normal install, you won't need the second CD. It's just there for some extra packages that most people probably won't need.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Interesting that they wouldn't include a beta of the kernel but of KDE
We are actually including a 2.4 kernel package (I think it's on the 2nd CD), it's just not installed by default.
The reasons are simple - you don't want a mission critical server to crash because of a broken kernel.
While a UI segfaulting is not very nice, it's hardly as critical.
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Wow, you are so intelligent, erudite and clever I'm amazed you lower yourself to our level. I find myself enhanced by the very presence of your posts here on Slashdot and am naturally swayed to believe everything you say purely due to you incredible qualifications, no doube gained at a particularly young age.
;)
I'm guessing from the quality of your post that you are also fantastically good looking, witty, urbane and generally perfect.
Keep up the good work, we all know that there are very few highly educated Slashdot users around and we need reminding every now and then as to that which we should aspire to.
troc
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
Do any distros have palns to ship nVidia's official drivers with their distros?
;)
We'll start doing that as soon as they release the source. If anyone at nVidia is reading this, please cause the right consequences.
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