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Red Hat 7.0 Beta Is Out
Thorkild writes: "The subject says it all. They just opened up the directories on
the mirror sites." If you can't find it without me telling you where it is, then you shouldn't be running a Beta Red Hat 7.0 ;)
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I presume thats a carefully selected snapshot.
Has the IA32 c++ ABI been finalised (and implimented), or will there still be one more round of c++ program breakage?
I like to download slightly buggy debian packages and write to an author and say, "hey, this is a little bit messed up"
Sure, we listen to those, as well. If you don't want to use bugzilla for whatever reason, just pick the latest name in the changelog.
Chances are you'll get a reply, even if it takes a while (we get a lot of them, I'm admittedly about 500 mails behind at the moment).
I also like a minimalist base install
We've fixed that up for 7.0. (Pick custom install and select individual packages, then don't select anything).
We're down to 30 or so packages in a minimal install.
Why do distros feel the need to come with a shitload of software?
In some countries, net connections are terribly expensive, and the average computer store (unfortunately) still doesn't carry a lot of Linux software or mirrors of Linux ftp servers, so we're better off including a lot of things.
Including it on the CDs doesn't mean you have to install it... That's what custom installs are there for.
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I'm all for allowing fresh faces to come use Linux. And if they want to use wizards, that's fine, too. I think that most 31337 Linux users feel the same way, as long as their methods of unbreaking things are still available.
How could it not "stay true to the look and feel of Unix"? Red Hat does not remove your ability to hack your system from the command line any more than Slakware does.
It does however provide simpler tools to do it. I learned how to use linux on Red Hat. I used the tools to do what I didn't yet know how to, and I used the command line to do whatr i had already learned as I learned more I used the Red Hat tools less and less until I finally switched distros (Red Hat won't miss me I never paid them for it anyway). If I couldn't do it that way, I (and many others) would still be using, god-forbid, Windows.
And if more people start using linux with Red Hat, well that just makes me happier.
Devil Ducky
Devil Ducky
MY peers would get out of jury duty.
I've actually had a look at that before - but since I couldn't find any license in there, we can't ship any of them.
Who can guarantee that the fonts we pick aren't taken from some company that will sue us for stealing?
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Tux is still being worked on. Apache is probably being held for Tux.
They've been burned by bind once already.
Staroffice will be Open Source in October. It's not open source yet.
Which LVM tool?
Probably marked it as over-rated because (s)he didn't want to get marked down in meta-moderation. Although I haven't looked hard for it, this is probably a copy-and-paste, and the proper moderation could be argued to be "Redundant". (Probably afraid of "inbred clueless meta-moderators".)
Anyway, the metalab link was wrong. It can actually be found at htt p://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat /redhat-7.0beta/pinstripe/.
--
--
We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
I truly do not understand the purpose of releasing commercial beta code unless... Unless they want to use all their users to do their work for 'm
No matter how large a company is, it can't possibly have all combinations of hardware, so how are we supposed to find bugs that occur only in systems that have the MyNet 2000 network card in combination with a Weirdo UW-SCSI card?
That's (part of) why public betas are absolutely needed.
As for supplying beta testers with the final version, I'm all for it (no, I don't have any say on this), but it's probably hard to do - how do you determine who did "enough" testing? 10 Entries in Bugzilla? Then what about someone who found only one bug, but submitted a perfect fix?
You'll probably always end up being unfair to someone.
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I presume that's a carefully selected snapshot
For the beta, yes.
Everything in there except for the kernel and some compat packages has been compiled with the snapshot.
For the final, we hope to include the final release.
Has the ia32 c++ ABI been finalised (and implemented)?
Implemented: yes.
Finalised: Hopefully, but there might be some more changes (which will of course make it into the 7.0 final).
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I bet RH really really wanted to put XF86 4.0 and kernel 2.4 into 7.0. Can you imagine the problems if the kernel release schedule was dictated by RH (or any company)? They would be shipping 2.4.0-test3 (or whatever test we are at now)--with all the problems that implies. Long Live Open Source!
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
We're compiling some selected packages with optimizations - that way, we can still run on a 386, but get most of the speed out of optimizations.
Also, since we're using gcc 2.96, the generated 386 code is probably somewhat faster than the "optimized" code earlier versions produced.
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I apologize, this is not a flame, but there are a few things you missed. StarOffice will not be open source until october from what I understand. Redhat has never been in the practice of putting beta kernels in their distros, nor any other beta things for that matter. Mandrake, on the other hand, is known for this ;)
And don't get me wrong. I would love to see all of these features, but often redhat does not go that cutting edge
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
Unfortunately the Adaptec AIC7xxx SCSI driver was REALLY broken and 6.2 won't even install
It is my understanding that some cards using the AIC7xxx chipset are really broken and 6.2 doesn't have the right workarounds (it definitely works on my home machine with an original Adaptec 2940).
Did you try the patch from http://people.redhat.com/dledford/ai c7xxx.html? A couple of people have reported that fixes the problem (use the driver at the BOTTOM of the list), so I guess it's actually resolved.
I don't have the actual hardware to verify this myself.
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That's why distro inflate their numbers. Unfortuantly the commerical market thinks that higher numbers means much newer (and better). Its the very reason that Slackware jumped from 4.0 to 7.0 (they've openly admitted this). Just like your comment about Caldera, they didn't want people to say "Redhat 6.0 MUST be better than Slackware 4.1." Even Perl is doing it. Instead of making 5.006 they are going to 5.6, because people don't realize the significant change from x.005 to x.006
---
I agree with most all of your points. I have long thought that Linux was too "unstable".
I feel that Microsoft Windows NT is too "unstable" and it only changes major components once a year.
Major releases generally cause stress amongst IT shops, both trying to deploy upgrades as well as retest and develop software against the new changes. Ye olde Mainframe went for years without major changes, allowing IT to focus on solutions to problems rather than upgrades.
Now I have to correct your FUD...
Windows 98 is #2 in terms of retail sales of business software, at least according to www.pcdata.com. It's in the top 10 of all retail software sales.
Windows Me is supposed to ship this fall, not two years from now, more like two months...
RedHat 6.2 is #17 in business retail sales.
Windows 2000 is #18 on the retail sales charts.
As far as noone likes Windows 2000... That's not true. Personally my trials at home show it to be great. It's slow in sales right now only because corporations are slow to upgrade, due to the difficulties I pointed out above.
Also given that most sales of Windows are in the corporate and OEM markets, it's not doing bad at all...
I was talking to someone who hires support staff, and he actually considers such certifications on a resume to be black marks.
So in some cases, those certifications hurt your chances of getting a job.
Each time the version number of glibc is increased by 0.0.1, Red Hat grabs the new version and uses it to bounce up its version number by 1.0
Entirely untrue.
We increase the major version number when there are changes that will prevent stuff compiled on the new version to run on the old version without being recompiled.
For 7.0, that's caused by the change of compilers (C++ binary incompatibility) and glibc (2.2, not 2.1.8).
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What's missing:
sendmail 8.11
Missing from the beta, present in our current tree (and definitely the final).
kernel 2.4test5ac
Actually it's there, on the 2nd CD and not installed by default because it's known to have some critical bugs.
tux 1.0
Needs kernel 2.4
apache 2.0pre4
Chances are 2.0 won't be released in time for 7.0. It'll probably be in 7.1 (and I'll make RPMs for 7.0 available as soon as I have the time).
bind 9.0
Same as for apache - I'm actually using the 9.0.0 release candidate to host bero.org, but it has a couple of problems, like some missing utilities, and requires all master zones to be changed because the TTL stuff is now mandatory (and most people haven't used it with bind 8), so there's no really clean update path. Not something we could do in the couple of days between the 9.0.0rc1 release and the beta.
staroffice
It's still binary-only, they've just announced they'll GPL it by October 13th. We'll include it once that happened, until then, it will be on the Linux Applications CD in the boxed sets.
LVM
It's present in the 2.4 kernel we're shipping.
reiserfs
Too unstable at the moment. They keep changing the journal format, and the recovery tools aren't quite where they should be.
Yes, reiserfs is nice while it works (I'm actually using it on one of my machines), but if something doesn't work and a journal replay doesn't fix it, you're usually in trouble.
I'll make a kernel RPM with the patch available over at people.redhat.com/bero/experimental when I have the time (probably shortly after the 7.0 release) for those who want to play - but for now, we don't feel we can support it.
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Red Hat Beta 6.0, 6.1 and Alpha 6.2 which include the newest and most unstable of all releases.
You must be using a different 6.2 than the rest of the world then...
If you have any issues with 6.2, report them - we can't fix problems we aren't aware of. Considering my web server (running 6.2) has had an uptime of 103 days before I rebooted it for a kernel upgrade, I'd hardly call it alpha-quality code.
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With almost all distributions (including Red Hat), most drivers are built as modules. Because you often need those drivers at boot time, Red Hat puts the modules you need into a ram disk image that gets used before your root partition is mounted. Personally, I like to rebuild my kernel with all critical drivers built in so as to avoid this ram disk.
So how do you find out what drivers you need?
Well, to start, use the command `lsmod` to see which modules are loaded. That should tell you which network driver you need to build.
send flames > /dev/null
Only 'flamers' flame!
Why does there need to the start of beta? Should not all distributions be continuously in beta?
Yes. And we are. Check out Raw Hide, which is actually a snapshot of our current development work, updated every couple of days.
Our official betas are when we decide something has all the features we need in the final version, and generate ISO images to make it available to a broader group of people.
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I have been keeping up with RawHide and I haven't seen anything going which would warrant a 7.0 designation
All the major number increase means is that an application compiled on a 7.0 system won't run on a 6.x system without being recompiled (because of the glibc and compiler upgrades).
Binary compatibility throughout a major number release is very important to us (do you think we LIKED keeping egcs 1.1.2 as the primary compiler in 6.2?).
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Why does a multi-million dollar software firm seem to have no idea about major/minor software versioning? A quick pass over the binary packages included in this release tells me that the only major changes here are XFree 4 and gnome 1.2. For this we're going to version 7.0? Shouldn't this 7.0 release have included KDE 2 (not beta) and kernel 2.4 (not beta) at least to make it a new major version?
Does the XFree 4.0.1 in RH 7.0b come with it's own free TT fonts? (Freetype IIRC)
Freetype is a LIBRARY that supports handling truetype fonts.
We've been including it and patching XFree86 to handle it since 6.0 or so.
However, there are no TT fonts included ATM (neither with the 7.0beta nor with Freetype) - if you can point me to a place that has good and free TT fonts that we could include, do.
It's hard to find any high-quality free TT fonts.
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with each major kernel release, a relatively major reconfig was required of certain packages to get optimal performance
:>)
We're ready for 2.4 in these terms.
Everything in the distribution has been compiled with 2.4 kernel includes, and all packages have been updated (we're even including iptables, the ipchains replacement for 2.4 kernels).
why not include the beta kernel with a product not expected to ship for another few months?
We don't expect to see a 100% stable 2.4.x release before going gold on 7.0. Therefore, we need beta testers to check how well our updates to the 2.2 kernels work with all sorts of hardware. That's why we're including the kernel that's closer to the default kernel for 7.0 final.
If you take a look at the kernel source RPM, you'll see we've added a number of patches, such as USB support - we don't want to include them in 7.0 without having had any public beta testing on that kernel.
Why rush 7.0
I'd rather delay 7.0 by a few more weeks to wait for some projects, but it's out of the question for the business side.
Not many would run beta in a mission critical situation
Right - but the beta is supposed to be as close as possible to the final, and the final will have 2.2.17 by default (with 2.4.0 included on the CD for those who want to play).
We can't go "2.2.17 is tested well enough, we'll just throw it in if 2.4.0test9pre7 isn't stable enough at release time" because we don't want to ship untested kernel patches. That would be suicide... (Then again, maybe not, seems like Microsoft has done it all the time
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I can not understand why redhat doesn't include any of the two available free (speech) SECSH (ssh2) implementations in their standard distribution. This would be a very simple step towards a much more secure out-of-the-box product. The crypto-regulations in the US shouldnt be a problem since OpenSSH and others are distributed by default.
Oh come on, we can all see straight through that!
:-)
We all know the REAL reason you release so often is because is gets announced on slashdot and you write replies to everyones comments. Your replies all get modded up to +5 and your karma soars.
THAT is why RH really releases so often - You simply want more karma.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
Gorkman
It would seem readily apparent that some postings here are only present to start pissing contests. Hopefully this is not one of them.
.. now how much would you pay ? All the distros have that built in.
...
Please stop arguing about which distro is better. Any Open-Source OS that can be tuned to YOUR needs is the one you should use. It's not about which one, its about all of them.
It's getting boring to read _lame_skript_kiddie_ complaints about how *pick-your-distro* doesn't have a 2.4 kernel, or StarOffice, or whatever. Did you know you could go get it yourself, review the code, configure, make, and install too?
If you didn't like it, you can change it, yep, learn a little programming, and make it exactly how you want it
Can you do that with MS ? nope nope nope, You get it Bill's way.
Anyways
So Beta 7 is out, great, RH is taking a positive step towards decreasing the MS marketshare on the desktop. I think that a 6 month turnaround is about right, remember, MS released new OS's what, about every 3 years (95->98, 3.51->4.0->2000). That is one of the benefits which is driving *nix up the marketshare ladder, server and desktop.
Lets pull it apart boys !!! (and girls)
-BrewX
Not for now, because it's too unstable (journal format changing every couple of releases), and once you've managed to mess up a filesystem beyond what a journal replay can fix, chances are you're in trouble with reiserfs.
Once it has stabilized, we'll include it unless something better comes along before that.
For 7.0, I'll put up a kernel RPM with the ReiserFS patch on http://people.redhat.com/bero/experimen tal/ when I have the time (probably shortly after the 7.0 release) for those who want to play, but don't say I didn't warn you.
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I don't really like that it boots to X as default
/etc/inittab than someone who is just looking for a way to start an easy interface at bootup.
You can turn that of at installation time if you choose a custom install.
The reasoning is, basically, that someone who can't run a custom install probably won't find his way around on the text console. Someone who can (and wants to) handle the text console as primary UI is much more likely to know how to vi
I didn't mean to be insulting of course
I thought so - I just prefer "an advanced user might miss the XYZ feature FreeBSD has" over "it seems to be targeted more at newbies", because once we know WHAT is missing, we can fix it...
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Both are right actually - the main dist consists of the two CDs, but for a normal installation, the first will suffice.
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I think it's cool that the Red Hat folks take the time in their busy schedule to come here, in Slashdot, to keep us informed -- right from the true source.
People who say that RH have sold out are plain wrong.
Oops, you caught us... :)
;)
Yes, the plans are to get a user account with karma > whatever the code currently supports, thereby causing a buffer overrun and taking over Slashdot, and thereby WORLD DOMINATION!
Oops, now I told too much.
Guess I'd better do something to make at least some people believe we're releasing because we're actually improving something...
400th post!
I'm currently pouring hot grits down my pants and looking at a Natalie Portman poster!
Your favorite Linux distribution sucks, all real people do "cat >/dev/hda"!
Hope this qualifies as Troll, -1.
Obviously, I'm not after Karma.
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Here's how to configure & build a stock RedHat kernel. This won't work when you upgrade to a new kernel, but at least you can look at all the options as they are configured.
/usr/src/linux/configs
/usr/src/linux, run
Look in
You'll see several files, names something like
kernel-2.2.15-i386-BOOT.config kernel-2.2.15-i586.config
kernel-2.2.15-i386-smp.config kernel-2.2.15-i686-smp.config
kernel-2.2.15-i386.config kernel-2.2.15-i686.config
kernel-2.2.15-i586-smp.config
Decide which one you want. I'm using
kernel-2.2.15-i386.config on my laptop and
kernel-2.2.15-i686-smp.config on my desktop.
You that you have a file, in
# make xconfig
or
# make menuconfig
Depending on X or Text mode. Look for an option like "Load Alternative Config File". Type/Paste in the name of the file you picked. Save & Exit.
# make dep; make clean; make; make modules; make bzlilo; make modules_install
It's Linux 7.0 that's out. See, all my favorite commercial apps say they require "Linux 6.2" to run, so therefore this latest version must be Linux 7.0. And we all know the commercial programs must be right because they can afford to sell the products. If this GNOME thing was any good, they would sell that too.
BTW, what's this "kernel" thing people keep talking about?
(hey mods, it's a joke)
--
Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.
Caldera's Linux 2.4 Technology Preview includes:
This is not to be confused with Caldera's confusing versioning scheme in which 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 all were based on Linux kernel 2.2.x. Maybe Caldera will jump up to 7.0 when the real 2.4.0-honest-to-God comes out in October 200x, and RedHat, Mandrake, Slackware, and SuSE all come out with 8.0.
The contest of being to first to announce a distro has a beta out. Pissing contest for geeks. Have to love it. I do wonder, though, how much wasted bandwidth goes to ftp lurkers waiting to pounce at the first sign of something beta.
Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
Bero - it's not about patching the kernel - everyone can patch the kernel easily...
Its about installation. Mandrake 7.1 gives you the ability to create a ReiserFS and a swap partitions - and thats it! you don't need another ext2 partition for booting etc.. - and THATS the beauty here..
So, what about releasing a boot/root disk that will add the options to create a ReiserFS in addition of ext2? like Mandrake does...
Hetz (Heunique)
what are the problems with 6.1? I've been using 6.1 for over 6 months (since shortly after it came out) without encountering anything serious (other than the bind vulnerability). Mind you, I've replaced the kernel and modified several other things.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
It's little things like that that can really irk your support base... the pointy hairs might not notice, but we do.
---
Well, I've been using Linux for four years now, and I still use Red Hat - on my servers and on my desktops.
.tgz's of Slackware are just non-standardized enough, and that's why no software maker will claim it works on Slack.
I started on Slack in 1996. Painful. But I loved it. Today I know and understand linux, and I'm looking at being more productive. Sure you can use cp and mv and find -name, but that gets tedious and redundant. Nothing beats the ease of point-and-click. I recently installed Slack 7.0. Downloaded the ISO. Still had to make those root/boot disks. Sorry to say, but Bootable CD's aren't just for newbies.
The RPM is (IMO) the best package manager out there. Upgrades are easy, new software installs are easy. Don't get me wrong, I love compiling software as much as the other dude, but that's not productive for _me_. Give me a binary RPM so I can _use_ the stuff. The
Looking in the iso directory:
pinstripe-en-i386-cd1.iso
pinstripe-en-i386-cd2.iso
Are they finally breaking down and needing 2 CD's?
Give a man a match, you keep him warm for an evening.
Light him on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life
haha. oh, yeah. but we're still behind Solaris 8 :)
javajawa# sleep
Meh
I haven't installed it yet, but it looks as thought the Logical Volume Manager tools still aren't packaged with the distro. This concerns me. This is among several concerns I have about RedHat's future directions. I've always liked redhat (since the Mother's Day release back in the day) and especially have appreciated their attempt to balance the new and fancy with stability and security.
But recently they've been failing on both fronts. Suse seems to be taking the lead on new features (with their support of X drivers, and shipping LVM and reiserfs), and Redhat has slipped on the security front. Redhat took two weeks (two weeks!) to issue patches the the last round of security problems affecting the 2.2.14 kernel. Not the 24-hour turnaround I've come to expect.
I suspect the distro will be good in other respects, though.
less and less to those who seek to immerse themselves in the goodness of a unix environment (bad).
/etc with vi and hack till your heart's content.
how does RedHat (or any distributon, for that matter) lessen the potential for total immersion in the unix environment? it's not like the graphical admin tools and scripts that are provided mean that you can no longer go into
skip automatic hardware detection, don't set up TCP/IP at install time, don't install any windows managers, and certainly don't install GNOME or KDE. there you go...its thin'n'crispy (tm) just like unix 'should be'.
on the other hand, you can install all the bells and whistles if you'd like, and pretend the technical details don't exist
i thought this whole 'choice' thing was what linux was about?
Uhm, actually, as a Debian user, I'm pretty much used to this situation.
Except of course that we don't even have KDE 1.x yet... (c:
(of course, I still *use* Debian...)p.--Cycon
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
The version number looks like a marketing trick to me...
:)
If you take a look at what have been changed from RH 6.2 -> 7.0 - you'll see that its not much...
So my guess will be that it will take you from 1 day to 1 week to learn what has been changed and study the changes...
I'm sure that no one will disqualify you because you have the RHCE for 6.2 while they'll use 7.0
Hetz (Heunique)
Well, this is great news for the community since like it or not, public perception of Linux comes from what RedHat are doing more than any other organisation - hence this'll be seen as Linux 7.0, which sounds better to the newbie than Linux 2.4.0-test3 :)
It does seem that people who are long-term Linux users don't use RedHat anymore, maybe because it has been geared towards the "newbie", but at the end of the day surely Linux is Linux, and you can set up any distribution how you like given a bit of time.
Still Linux does need something aimed at helping newer users overcome the initial "fear factor" of running Linux. Whether you like it or not, by doing so they're doing everyone a favour in the long run. So although I don't use it, I wish them all the best and hope this release goes well for them.
Well, according to the dates that the KDE team posted, KDE 2.0 will be out the door before RH 7.0 will be released as gold.
Take a look at the releases of KDE beta's and you'll notice that they were released exactly as planned (with few days more for packaging - but I'm sure this is not a problem for Redhat).
Hetz (Heunique)
I predict 15 red hat vulnerabilities will be posted on securityfocus within 48 hours. at least the script kiddies will be kept busy scanning ip addresses for boxes running the beta distribution and wont bother with trying to crack my freebsd box.
RedHat's basic OS strategy seems to be to release a .0 with lots of new stuff and improvements, but with it inevitably comes lots of bugs. For example 6.0 had 2.2 kernel, libc6, etc. the first distribution to do that. But it was terrible, lots of problems and bugs that I have seen on many 6.0 systems, like the mysterious "Shutting down X font server [FAILED]" and "nfsd: terminating on signal 9" messages every time to halt/reboot. The version of GNOME it came with was also really unstable.
.1 release. I was much happier with 6.1 when I quickly installed it. It worked much better but I didn't appreciate the unmaintained/undocumented text mode installer, or the fact it didn't install a kernel with kernel module loader.
.2 releases, but I presume they fix more problems, making them the most stable.
Then RedHat fixes most of these problems in a
I don't know about the
So imaging what a beta of an unstable product will be... 2.4.0-test4pre2, gcc-3.0pre5, etc.
I would stick with 6.2 unless you're really brave.
# debian/rules
It would be great if the installation routine could create a .config file in /usr/src/linux that would match the current installation and hardware! I can't build a new kernel because I can't figure out what network card I have (/proc/pci says one thing, conf.modules says something completely different, I can't find the chip on the motherboard, and nothing I've tried works anyway). However, the installation itself knows what hardware I have, but if I try to build another kernel, I have to manually figure it all out. There is no reason for this.
The installation routine should generate a .config based on the hardware it has detected and the options the user chose during the installation. In other words, I should be able to build the kernel from /usr/src/linux without specifying any options, and it should work!
--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Fonts are copyrighted as computer programs. The glyph shapes themselves are uncopyrightable (the longest English word that doesn't repeat a letter).
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Will there ever be a mta other than sendmail? I'd like qmail included.
Moby Dick bites my ass. I don't need 2 chapters on chowder and 3 on harpoons.
I gotta agree there. However, Shakespear, now that is literature.
To troll or not to troll, that is the question
wether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of moderation, or to login to a sea of troubles, and by posting intelligently gaining karma
To whore, to troll, no more
And by a troll we say to end
The intelligence and thousand on-topic threads that slashdot was heir to.
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
It is nonetheless not at all obvious that this winds up causing an actual problem.
After all, if a new version comes out every 6 months, that means that CompUSA and BestBuy have the opportunity to have regular displays that say: New! Improved! Buy now!
I would certainly agree that this results in there being some obsolete RHAT boxes out there that may become virtually unsalable. That does not forcibly represent a problem; computer stores have already needed to be able to cope with "best before" dates, and dealing with products that have to head to the Bargain Bin.
Thus, for Red Hat Linux releases to exercise the "Bargain Bin" does not forcibly represent a problem for retail marketing.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
The point really is that there are mechanisms already in place for coping with returns, and a fair bit of control is in the hands of retailers, at least those that buy in bulk.
If BestBuy knows that RHAT does a release roughly every five or six months, but winds up over-ordering based on estimating sales badly, I'm not sure why this ought to be considered the fault of RHAT. The dummies are in BestBuy's purchasing department...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Looking at the features, I dont see why this would be a 7.0 release. The only real major upgrade is XFree86... I think they should release this as 6.3, and when Gnome2, KDE2, Kernel2.4, etc is out, and stable, then make it a 7.0 release.
-Brandon
XFree86 4.0.1
Latest Beta KDE (3!)
MySQL Now Included
Latest Postgres
Looks like some fun stuff. Intesting that they wouldn't include a beta of the kernel but of KDE. Guess RedHat knows what will and will not be done by the time 7 ships.
Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
--
"I have a good idea why it's hard to verify programs. They're usually wrong." --Manuel Blum, FOCS 94
Excellent. I tried to install RH6.2 onto an LS-120 to use as an emergency boot disk, but it didn't fit. When your base install, with no packages selected is over 120MB, it's a sure sign you've gone too far in the bloat direction. Then again, I've been using Linux since it came on a boot and root disk direct from Linus, so everything seems a bit bloated these days :-)
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
To other distro maintainers: when you can duplicate the effects of kickstart (or roboinst or jumpstart, etc), I'll use your distro. I hate Red Hat, but you're just not getting the job done for me. Sorry.
Let's see, most comp-usa's and other retailers that are nervous about selling linux to begin with are going to be stuck with shelves full of 6.2 releases when the 7.0 release comes out ov beta in 30-60 days... Man, if I was a retailer I would really think twice about stocking RedHat on my shelves. First it's not selling as fast as the other (OK Win isn't selling either but 98 is still a current release... millenium isnt expected for another 24 months, and noone likes 2000) so here's this upstart that makes me eat 20 copies of their software every 3 months. Example : I start with 6.0 - 6.1 comes out then 6.2 and now 7.0 beta means 7.0 final is soon. this is all within the past 12 months... As a store manager, I would have to make a decision to not carry redhat on my shelves as it is too "unstable"
I fear that RedHat will drive the penguin out of the retail market faster than any MS generated FUD could .
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
About twenty minutes after the beta directories were opened up on the mirrors, the first of the ERRATA files were transmitted to the mirrors for downloading...
FNORD!
All the world's an analog stage, and digital circuits play only bit parts.
Picture things in 2 years, we're going to have Redhat Version 14, Slackware Version 15.1, and SuSE 42.
They're going to have to stop the insanity eventually! :)
Who's the black private dick, who's a sex machine for all the chicks?
I make it a point to always buy the newest version of Red Hat, just to support my fav company, but occasionally, I have to wait for the store I get it from to get more in, because they say they sell Red Hat's stuff very quickly. To quote the guy at the cash register, "Yeah, I may wanna try it, people seem to be buying it a lot these days." Sure it could sit up and take up shelf space, but I see a lot of places selling it rather easily. Don't even ask me how long the local Media Play managed to keep their hands on 12 copies of Corel Office 2K for Linux....ahem gone in a week....
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
I'm running reiserfs with journaling on 2.2.13. That works fine (so fine that I've moved everything except root,home,archive partitions on my machine over to it). That said, reiserfs with journaling on 2.4.0test does NOT read them (i.e. refuses to mount).
This is a problem that I have, and is probably one that THEY know of, and is a good reason not to include reiserfs as part of the basic install.
Including the reiserfs patch (as part of an upgraded kernel source archive), and providing ext2-to-reiser utils (if and when they are written) would help things a good deal.
p.s. I haven't bothered to check/contact the reiserfs mailing list over this. This is not an excuse for me not having the problem 'fixed' -- 2.2.13 works fine for me. However it is a valid excuse for not having reiserfs in -their- kernel at this point.
p.p.s patience. I'd personally like to see LVM first, and reiserfs to wait in the wings until it is virtually (i.e. at least appears) designed for LVM.
John
John_Chalisque
(1) There's an apt-get mechanism that you can set up to do automated updates (think, security patches) of your system software. Redhat is working on this, too, but Debian has been there for a long time.
(2) They don't ship alpha quality software! I sincerely hope that RedHat has bought some QA with their IPO money, because despite having a reputation for being easy to install, RedHat upgrades always strike me as a severe nightmare.
(Hey, maybe I'll try a *beta* release of a "x.0" version of RedHat! That sounds so exciting! Uh, on second thought....)
But then again; I also can't understand why people buy Microsoft beta's and participate in the testing. MS is afaik the only company which can test a beta and make money out of it as well.
You must means SunOS 5.5.8? Or is that Solaris 2.8? Too many #$@#$ version numbers...
That's just wonderful...
I just got the RHCE certification (didn't really care about it but my company insisted on paying for it, so who am i to argue?). Since the certification is specifically for RH6.2, and that it will expire at the end of the RH7.x serie (that's what the instructor said anyway, but nobody is really sure) - at the rate RH is going that should be in a year or so?
As I said, I am glad my company paid for this. Considering how much it cost ($700 just for the test), and how soon it becomes obsolete, I would NEVER have paid for it.
Nine times out of ten MS betas are far more stable than release versions. I'm quite convinced a vital step in the MS development process is "beta test to ensure optimum bug saturation - add bugs as necessary to taste". I think the point that was being made is that it isn't necessary to HIDE stuff; put up a link, let the morons who decide to download it and kill their systems die, it's their own problem.
---
Tim Wilde
Gimme 42 daemons!
>"Document roots for Apache and anonymous FTP are removed from /home so it may be automounted. "
/home directory being a default automount point (meaning you access other people's remote home directory though /home). They use /export/home for the actual location of local home directories. Redhat used to place local things in /home, making it more difficult to use in a heterogenous environment.
/home, you can use it as an automount directory without RPM being upset when you upgrade Apache or FTP.
What the heck does that mean, exactly?
Sun started (I think) the practice of the
By taking everything out of
"It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
Oh, yes. Suggesting that people who can't browse an FTP site (or get links mailed to them on the announce list) probably shouldn't watch their system being torn into shreds by a beta distribution is going to ruin Linux's chances in the real world.
So that's the reason my grandparents got Win2k betas?
We are aiming for better binaries - more ones, less zeros.
Seriously speaking, we compile with optimizations for pentiumpro but no architecture specific commands (selected packages excepted, like glibc and the kernel). And since we use a compiler with a new x86 backend, we should actually see some performance gain - previously, "optimizing for pentium" with gcc was just a gimmick.
Announcing...
h at/beta/pinstripe/ d hat/beta/pinstripe/
a t/beta/pinstripe/ h at/beta/pinstripe/
t a/pinstripe/ e ta/pinstripe/
/ pinstripe/ a /pinstripe/
r edhat.com/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
n stripe
/ redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
/ beta/pinstripe/
a /pinstripe/ t /beta/pinstripe/
i pe/ r ipe/
i nstripe/
i nstripe/ p instripe/
/ redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
i nstripe/
h at/beta/pinstripe/
/usr/man is now /usr/share/man
/usr/doc is now /usr/share/doc
/usr/info is now /usr/share/info
/home so it may be automounted.
Red Hat Linux "Pinstripe"
a Beta release
Red Hat. Inc. presents a beta release of Red Hat Linux for your
hacking pleasure. First, the regular drill:
This is a beta release of Red Hat Linux. It is not intended for
mission critical applications. It's not even intended for
non-mission critical applications. Important data should not be
entrusted to Pinstripe, as it may eat it and make loud belching
noises.
Significant changes have been made since the last version of Red Hat
Linux. We need your help to find and report bugs. Search for
existing bug reports for problems you find by using bugzilla at:
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/
Attach patches if you're motivated!
This beta includes so much cutting edge software, the binary packages
come on two iso images. The installation program now handles reading
packages from multiple CDs.
* Where can I get this release?
Pinstripe can be downloaded from our public FTP site at:
ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe
With the support of volunteers ftp site administrators, Pinstripe is
available from several mirrors. The following have complete copies of
Pinstripe, please use a mirror close to you:
North Carolina, USA:
ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/red
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/re
California, USA:
ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redh
http://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/red
California, USA:
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/be
http://www.kernel.org/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/b
Connecticut, USA:
ftp://ftp.uselinux.org/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Indiana, USA:
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/beta
http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/bet
Michigan, USA:
ftp://mrhankey.bizserve.com/pub/linux/redhat/ftp.
New York, USA:
ftp://ftp.ee.cornell.edu/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pi
Pennsylvania, USA:
ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions
Pennsylvania, USA:
ftp://cronus.res.cmu.edu/pub/linux/ftp.redhat.com
Tennessee, USA:
ftp://sunsite.utk.edu/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/bet
http://sunsite.utk.edu/ftp/pub/linux/redhat/redha
Australia:
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/redhat/beta/pinstr
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/redhat/beta/pinst
Germany:
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/mirrors/redhat.com/redhat/beta/p
Germany:
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/redhat/beta/p
http://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/redhat/beta/
Norway:
(ISO images only)
ftp://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions
Peru:
ftp://sajino.terra.com.pe/pub/linux/redhat/beta/p
Japan:
ftp://ftp.kddlabs.co.jp/Linux/packages/RedHat/red
* What's new in this beta?
General system improvements:
o FHS compliant packaging of files
See http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ for more information
o Document roots for Apache and anonymous FTP are removed from
o Packages with services are automatically restarted on live
upgrades
o Expanded LDAP integration
o Expanded Kerberos integration
Core system components:
o glibc 2.1.91
o XFree86 4.0.1, XFree86 4.0.1 runtime environment
o XFree86 3.3.6 X servers included for maximum hardware compatibility
o GNOME 1.2
o kernel 2.2.16
o GCC 2.96
Expanded hardware support:
o Basic USB support (mouse and keyboards)
o Expanded hardware accelerated 3-D support
System service changes:
o inetd replaced by xinetd
o BSD lpr replaced by LPRng
A sampling of package upgrades:
o GIMP 1.1.24
o Perl 5.6.0
o Tcl/Tk 8.3.1
A sampling of Package additions:
o SDL, smpeg
o SANE
o gphoto
o MySQL
o AbiWord
o dia
o ispell has been replaced by aspell
o XEmacs
Next generation development library previews included:
o pango: Unicode font rendering
See http://www.pango.org/
o Inti: C++ foundation libraries including GTK+ GUI toolkit classes
See http://sources.redhat.com/inti/
Enjoy!
The OS Development Team
Red Hat, Inc.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Here's what's new about RH 7.0:
perl 5.60
php 4.01 - speed boost over version 3
mysql - now open source, no longer just in power tools
XFree86 4.01 - speed boost over version 3
enterprise kernel - raw filesystems and other performance patches
kde 1.91 - beta for 2.0, includes new browser
kde office 1.91
And what's missing:
sendmail 8.11 - crypto smtp
kernel 2.4test5ac - decent smp performance
tux 1.0 - very fast RedHat kernel web server
apache 2.0pre4
bind 9.0 - major rewrite
staroffice - now it's open source
LVM
reiserfs
Sendmail and staroffice aren't beta and should have gone into this release, the rest are probably too bleeding edge. Anyone think of anything I've missed?
Personal is aimed at the desktop-market, so maybe it will be preconfigured not to run all services under the sun by default and make beginners a bit less vulnerable.
Actually, they are moving to Gcc 2.95 (2.96?) and a newer glibc, which means they are breaking compatibility w/ 6.x releases (well, they may include old compatibility libraries, but it isn't a trivial change). Another 6.x release means they would probably have to keep using egcs-1.1.x.
Kernel 2.4 is optional (and the release should be mostly compatible w/ 2.4 final)
"It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
less and less to those who seek to immerse themselves in the goodness of a unix environment
How so? (If we don't know what's wrong, we can't fix it!)
I'm running it without X about 90% of the time, I'm not missing anything...
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
With the support of volunteers ftp site administrators, Pinstripe is available from several mirrors. The following have complete copies of Pinstripe, please use a mirror close to you:
North Carolina, USA:r ipe/ s tripe/
ftp://metalab. unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/beta/pinst
http://metala b.unc.edu/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/beta/pin
California, USA:p e/ r ipe/
ftp://ftp.sourc eforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstri
http://ftp.sou rceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinst
California, USA: /pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
ftp://ftp.kernel.org
http://www.kernel.o rg/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Connecticut, USA: /beta/pinstripe/
ftp://ftp.uselinux.org/pub/redhat
Indiana, USA: .purdue.edu/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn
http://csociety-ftp.e cn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Michigan, USA: ftp://mrhankey.bizserve.com/pub/linux/redhat/ftp.r edhat.com/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
New York, USA: ftp://ftp.ee.cornell.edu/p ub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe
Pennsylvania, USA: ftp ://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/red hat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Pennsylvania, USA: ftp://cronus.res. cmu.edu/pub/linux/ftp.redhat.com/beta/pinstripe/
Tennessee, USA: ftp://sunsite.utk.edu /pub/linux/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/ /
http://sunsite.u tk.edu/ftp/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/beta/pinstripe
Australia: ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pu b/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/ pub/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Germany: ftp://ftp.gmd.de/mirrors /redhat.com/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Germany: .de/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.d e/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
http://ftp.uni-bayreuth
Norway: (ISO images only) ftp ://carroll.cac.psu.edu/pub/linux/distributions/red hat/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Peru: ftp://sajino.terra.com.p e/pub/linux/redhat/beta/pinstripe/
Japan: ftp://ftp.kddl abs.co.jp/Linux/packages/RedHat/redhat/beta/pinstr ipe/
Truth to tell no difference at all. Except, Debian always ships with much older and more stable versions of many packages. This way, it looks more stable as a whole.
Either than this, they are all the same. They all package free (as in freedom) software developed by someone else.
RedHat however has the best balance when it comes to ease-of-use/stability/quality/support....
It has also built a good brandname, kindda like Sony for electronics. Sony stuff might not always be the best, but you know it's among the best.
As for hardcore geeks prefering Debian. I think it's mostly the "I don't use what newbies use" attitude or maybe it's "I use something very few use"
Anyway, conclusion: they are 90% same stuff with some version number difference.
The kernel needs a Gtk/Gnome-based post-install device configuration tools "a la" make xconfig. (Better sig coming soon
Well, this is great news for the community since like it or not, public perception of Linux comes from what RedHat are doing more than any other organisation - hence this'll be seen as Linux 7.0, which sounds better to the newbie than Linux 2.4.0-test3 :)
It does seem that people who are long-term Linux users don't use RedHat anymore, maybe because it has been geared towards the "newbie", but at the end of the day surely Linux is Linux, and you can set up any distribution how you like given a bit of time.
Still Linux does need something aimed at helping newer users overcome the initial "fear factor" of running Linux. Whether you like it or not, by doing so they're doing everyone a favour in the long run. So although I don't use it, I wish them all the best and hope this release goes well for them.
-- In the future, everyone will code Perl for 15 minutes. --
This I see as a nice thing:
/usr/man is now /usr/share/man
/usr/doc is now /usr/share/doc
/usr/info is now /usr/share/info
=== Cut ===
General system improvements:
o FHS compliant packaging of files
See http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ for more information
=== Cut ===
What about the rest? Ex. KDE - where does that get installed?
Read this article for more info about what I'm talking about.
Wow, you are so intelligent, erudite and clever I'm amazed you lower yourself to our level. I find myself enhanced by the very presence of your posts here on Slashdot and am naturally swayed to believe everything you say purely due to you incredible qualifications, no doube gained at a particularly young age.
;)
I'm guessing from the quality of your post that you are also fantastically good looking, witty, urbane and generally perfect.
Keep up the good work, we all know that there are very few highly educated Slashdot users around and we need reminding every now and then as to that which we should aspire to.
troc
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net