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More on NVIDIA's Involvement In X Box
ManWithNoName writes "In the Private Eye, there's an interesting look at NVIDIA's involvement (which was officially announced today) in the X-Box, with their APU and iGPU and how these technologies could have the potential to be used for other products other than Xbox. There's also a very satirical "General Industry Interview" (involving Sony, Sega, 3dfx, NVIDIA, ATI etc...)with everyone involved in the industry that either is inside the Xbox or has tried to get into it over the pasty year. On a more serious note, the authors talk about a conspiracy that Microsoft's Xbox will punch the PC industry in the nuts with the whole Delay to DX8 causing NVIDIA, 3dfx and ATI to delay the releases of their next generation 3D chips, which are dependant upon the unreleased API."
ATI and NVidia both know now that it's a race just as it is for AMD and Intel for chips. They would not delay their release of a chip just because DX8 wasn't out yet. After all, they could add extensions to OGL to fully use their hardware. Hell, when the GeForce came out, no game existed that could fully utilize its power, and few exist today. Just because directx 8 isn't out yet doesn't mean that they won't release the new chips. After all, it's the drivers that wouldn't be released, not the chips.
witty sig goes here
>...has tried to get into it over the pasty year...
Isn't the word 'pasty' widely used in your country? Those of us on this side of the pond could use some help with it in this context.
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
DRIVE BY TROLL!!!
BANG BANG!
"If I'm not mistaken, all of the progress in Direct3d, from v1-v6 was to *catch* up to OpenGL.
Which means, as of D3d6, MS is starting to reach parity with OpenGL"
Well, if (according to you) they caught up to OpenGL around version 6, I guess they're PASSING OpenGL now, since D3D 7 has been out forever, and D3D 8 is on its way.
Then again, I think you just got your version numbers mixed up. I haven't done any D3D since version5, which was a complete mess. I did a little OpenGL too, and it was very simple and clean. I guess I'll have to try some D3d 8 programming soon, just to see how it will progress. Yeah, I'll be a game programmer someday, suuuuuuure I will....
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
In terms of game boxes, I tend to think that people recognize Sony more then Microsoft. Frankly, the big boys when it comes to game boxes are Nintendo, Sega, and Sony (not necessarily in that order). So, in a sense, MS is stepping into an arena that is already fairly well defined and dominated by others.
Will the X Box succeed? Well, I'm not going to buy one, but that's just me. If there are enough interesting games for it, it should sell. If the games blow chunks, the X Box will tank no matter how good it itself is.
I'd also like to note that if the X Box even does moderately well, it will probably be followed in a couple of years by a new model (in the manner of Nintendo, Sony and Sega)... but I don't see any 2nd stage MS gamebox being backwards compatible for some reason...
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
What ever happened to the new 3D API, called Farenheit, that was to be co-developed by MS and SGI? I remember it was announced not long after the GL vs. DX wars went into full swing, about 3 years ago. Where did that go?
Farenheit was basically dropped by both MS and SGI. SGI opted to concentrate more on the open-source, OpenGL on Linux, etc. There's a lot of debate on whether MS really ever intended to do stuff with Farenheit, or if it was a merely something they did to keep folks busy while they simultaneously marketed DX/D3D.
Does really matter, however. The end result is that Farenheit is effectively dead.
Don't tell me they're counting the blending multipliers.
--
It's a
-- Danny Vermin
Yea bitch! that your original?
Lars, I just wanted you to know I found myself humming Master of Puppets in the shower, how much do I owe you?
Dude, I couldn't tell you.
I just got bitchslapped HARD; look at my history.
It's ALL marked as Troll.
I mean, yeah, I wasn't tryin' to be serious or nothin', but I still want people to read my posts! And some of this stuff is completely unrelated.
So either someone's been harvestin' too many mod points, or this was Slashdot Staff who didn't feel like sendin' me an e-mail sayin' "By the way, we don't like you" and shit.
I'd like to know which one it was, by the way. So if'yall creeps been viewin' my history and moddin' me down, just shout out so we can return the favor, you know what I'm sayin'?
Will the real Bruce Perens Please Stand Up
I just went to an X-box presentation last Wednesday where that exact question was asked.
Their answer, in short, was that they are Microsoft. They make DirectX, therefore it makes since for them to push DirectX. The Dev guy also stated that if anyone wishes to make an OpenGL subsystem for the Xbox, they are welcome to, but it won't be supported by Microsoft.
One of their exact quotes was:
"Why put our eggs in 2 baskets that are half-assed, when we can put them all in one and it be kickass." This was from the Multimedia Head of the Xbox Dev Team.
Also, they stated that it will not BSOD.. they can't afford that. That quickly got questions like: "Then what color is it?". heh, quite funny.. you had to be there I guess.
But, overall, the presentation really didn't impress me... too much "This is what 10% of the theorectical power of the Xbox will be able to do" crap.
Well.. that's my bit for now.
Think how much more Blizzard would make if they re-released all their titles for Linux
Judging from past experiences, including Q3 for Linux, I think the answer is "not much." Linux may be growing 2000% a year or whatever, but it's a strange market. If you make one minor license screw up, you end up as a Slashdot headline and vigilantes bring down your site. Warning: This is how many developers see the culture surrounding Linux. Don't laugh it off.
Running an open standard in these days of hyperactive lawyers is a pain. One concern is that people adding new functionality to OpenGL (or even reviewing specifications for it) might sneak in some proprietary intellectual property. If this made it into the standard unchallenged, the owner could then reap a substantial windfall by suing anyone unlucky enough to implement it.
The way this problem is solved is to require anyone active in the ARB to sign an agreement stating that they'll simply disclose any proprietary interest they might have in features that are being considered for use in the API.
Wasn't this exactly how we wound up with RamBus? A quick summary from one of the comments on that story :
1. Rambus joined JEDEC, a consortium of companies devoted to sharing R&D work and forming industry standards to keep costs down for everyone
2. Rambus files for patents after joining the JEDEC, without disclosing the fact. These patents go directly against the industry standards the JEDEC is trying to establish.
3. Rambus is now using this information learned at meetings to "extend and prosecute pending applications to target the latest industry standards proposed in these meetings."
The link is here.
Honestly, this kind of stuff scares me...
--
Fair enough. But could you please follow the link in my original post? Sony isn't #2, Microsoft is. And that's not just computer related circles, it's overall brand recognition.
You got a better source than Interbrand for your claim? Post the link.
Yes, lots. The Xbox site has a list of 17 game developers (Flash required).
There are many others who say they'll release Xbox games.
Maybe an X-Box only type game?
Ahh, there's the rub. If you write to DirectX 8, an Xbox game should be an easy port to a PC, so long as the PC has an similarly powerful graphics subsystem. But if you target a game for the vast range of PC configurations from Intel 815 integrated chipset to whatever the top-of-the-line NVIDIA GPU is in 2001, it's unlikely to be that special on the Xbox. I suspect Microsoft is torn -- they'd like unique "franchise" games for the Xbox, but if the game leads to Windows sales as well, the'll take it.
=S
Sounds like you need to start playing nethack...
Hey, if they ported NH to X-Box, it might be worth having. I wouldn't have to lug around a monitor with my hack machine. (I tell ya, it's not that easy to wheel my 486 and a 19-inch monitor all over the place just in case I have a few extra minutes...
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
That article is interesting, but makes some flawed comments, IMHO. The XBox is not a replacement PC - MS would actually lose money everytime someone bought one for non-gaming applications. And the complaints about "overdesign" seem a bit specious.
:-), and you have an enormous amount of computing power.
I'm wondering about those legacy PC bottlenecks on the xbox. It's on a x86 based processor going against a 100% 128-bit PS2 Emotion Engine that's got a main 300 mhz CPU and two vector coprocessors that blow Pentium III floating point ops out of the water.
You're forgetting a few things. Not only is the PIII over twice the speed of the PS2's CPU, it can also issue 4 SSE instructions every clock, effectively a vector processor in itself. I think you'd find its FP performance is faster, not slower, more than comparable to the PS2's CPU and 1 vector unit together..
The CPU won't have to do double duty on the graphics, either. The nVidia programmable T&L engine will do that, and reportedly faster than the PS2's vector units. Add to that the 4 DSPs assisting in the sound generation (Dolby Digital 5.1 with no CPU effort required
The XBox's RAM bandwidth should be more than sufficient for the 640x480 resolution that TV games will be running at, even considering the 2-3 GB/s used by the T&L and CPU. Dr. Michael Abrash wrote a very interesting article about that a little while ago. The PS2's VRAM is fast, but small - developers will have to go easy on the textures, or it'll get swamped by thrashing.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
He won't follow the link. There is nothing that he can read that would change his preconceived notions. That is why he is a loser.
I will buy the Xbox the second it is released. I'm hearing the same from most of my friends. Even the lamers who think they're Bill Joy jr. because they run Linux.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Yes. yes it is.
--Giving to trolls for the benefit of us all
xbox...no, i don't think so.
why on earth would anyone want to buy closed hardware? to use with closed software? just because the imac did well, doesn't mean this thing will take the industry by storm.
in fact, if it does well, it could have a devastating effect on microsoft. let's face it, there are numerous hardware companies that can probably bring a better, faster, cheaper product to market than MS, and have it be an open standard (they wouldn't have misguided loyalty to der fuhrer)
MS has had awful luck with previous ventures into hardware. the only two devices that ever sold were the mouse and keyboard, which, as i recall, were invented elesewhere and BBB (bought by bill).
i stopped buying MS software/products in about 1993, after they settled with stac, cuz i don't buy products from illegal, lying corporations. i did buy a natural keyboard, tho. i just don't understand why anyone would use a microsoft anything, given a choice.
about a year ago, i stopped buying computer hardware -- mostly because of bill (and friends) outrageous behavior in a court of law. i really have no interest in spending any money on PC hardware or software until MS is basically destroyed.
here's hoping the Xbox will be another nail in the coffin. fortunately, i have enough put aside from my unix career that i'll be able to just walk away from it all in a year or so, even if bill is able to bribe/lie/cheat his way through his legal problems again.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
And just when unofficial selfwritten SB specs popped up by people that bugged C.L. for years trying to pressure them to release at least _some_ usefull documentation (which they never got), C.L. turned around, coldly dropped their older SB technology where it was, and is now completely into Wavetable synthesis, a technology which was introduced by Gravis. Unfortunately, Gravis, back then, was slaughtered by C.L. as C.L. agressively bought undisclosed and self-engeneered hardware support wherever they could (games/os/..)using proprietry api's, meanwhile leaving the Gravis cards as a second best option (at best) and additional support for other soundcards at the mercy and woes of the programming teams.
Today, Gravis, one of the finest soundcard manufacturers of the early nineties and pushing the limits in soundtechnology, makes joysticks and gamepads. C.L. was never interested in making hot new technology, or great soundcards for everybody to enjoy. It was only interested in protecting it's virtual standard-monopoly across the PC platform. Whenever people got too close, they were either forced out of the market, bought, or discouraged by surprisngly fastly upgrading their key technology.
This would probably be the point where you'd see a black cat miaauw, twice.
With great power comes great electricity bills.
The same could have been said about Sony before they launched the PSX. Others had tried to enter into competition with Nintendo and Sega, and they failed quickly. NEC's TurboGraphix and 3DO were unsuccessful, and NEC definately had money. Sony came in with no console or arcade experience whatsoever and managed to conquer the market. Sega had been extremely successful with the Genesis, and even tried to do the backward compatibility thing with the 32X. Sony won because they marketed a single decent platform and threw tons of cash at developers, sometimes bribing them to not develop for Sega or Nintendo. It didn't matter that the Genesis had a large market, because backware compatibility wasn't a desirable option. If you wanted to run old games, you used your old console. You didn't look to getting a faster console to run old games faster.
Microsoft doesn't even need to find new developers. Most PSX games have been ported to the PC. Sony won't be able to rely on their past success to sustain PSX2. They'll definately gain from the loyalty and name-brand respect they garnered from the original PSX, but that's not enough by itself.
Microsoft isn't a nobody either. The PC has become a major game platform. It used to be that PC games were imitations of console games. But now look how things have changed. People are playing Quake and Tomb Raider on consoles. And hardware in game consoles is now influenced by the PC market: the DC is using a PowerVR2, and Sony is including stuff like USB and hard drives. And Microsoft has stronger ties with PC hardware makers. Instead of porting existing technology, they have the advantage of being able to get newer technology on their platform before or at the same time it arrives on the PC. Of course Sony invents their own technology, but their stuff isn't successful unless it becomes a shared standard.
I'm not saying that Microsoft will beat Sony. But I think they definately have a chance at being very competitive. But I hope that M$ loses!
Why is it that the dependence of the majority of consumers on Windows is considered apathy by the majority of non-Windows users? Guess what, Linux evangelists: Windows works fine for MOST people! Does it work perfectly? No way. Does Linux work perfectly? No way. BeOS? MacOS? Nuh uh. However, they all work for the purposes that people are putting them to. Fine, Linux is more stable. Fine, Linux handles networking better. But this idea that Windows is crushing productivity all over the country/world is ridiculous. People who install Windows and then install Office or Word Perfect and then use those programs (a plurality [sp] of consumers) are doing just fine.
In addition, do any of you know the costs associated with converting over to a new operating system in a medium- to large-sized business? While I don't have the figures (not an economist), the training alone would drain many valuable hours from employees who are already productive under their current systems.
Hell, I've seen people still using Windows 3.11 because it continues to serve their particular needs.
What does this mean for innovation? I don't know. I do know that, despite the paranoia rampant among the Linux community, nobody but Microsoft has an interest in their perpetual hegemony over the operating system market.
Most people, and most business, deal in percentages when dealing with the idea of this kind of sweeping change (changing operating systems). By what percentage is the productivity of my employees who are currently using Windows going to increase by moving over to Linux? By what percentage are my profits going to increase by adopting Linux? Unless the answers to those questions are significant, people are going to stick with what they now.
Look how long the NTSC and PAL standards for television transmission have lasted, despite the fact that capabilities could have been added, particularly over the last 20 years? Know why? Because they have worked well enough. Sure, we haven't had as detailed a television picture as we could have, but the picture was fine. Of course there was some static, but you just needed to get an antenna, cable or satellite dish. Hardware geeks lamented the fact that their televisions and monitors (particularly in the last 10 years) could handle more resolution and agitated for changes and HDTV is still coming slowly.
I think that Linux has the potential to gain a more significant share of the operating system market (particularly as compatibility and usability issues decrease in number), but you need to be patient. The PC world has been a Microsoft world for a long time, and that kind of inertia doesn't go away overnight.
If you can't be patient, then at least lose some of the condescending attitude toward the rest of the population, who feel that their work and play are getting done just fine.
SB Live has been out for 2 years now.
Has anyone ever noticed that projects which were started to make great advances have never yielded the great advances they were supposed to deliver. (Like the Aswan dam, Reagan's "austerity" budget which racked up the largest deficit in US history, contact with sport safety equipment being the leading source of sport injuries, etc.)
I have a sneaky suspicion that the X-box that will eventually come out of the pipe won't be the be-all and end-all that is being touted and that the premises (I won't call them promises, they are more like soggy dreams,) are going to seem like the other stains in somebody's shorts when something finally pours out of the pipe.
Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it depends on what you put into it. This is the same bunch that took six years to kludge up an OS (NT) that's still worse that what a kid in Finland managed with no budget but with a lot of friends
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
They ARE making a network countroller and a sound chip for the X-Box. Their chip is supposed to be used as an ultra-high-end DSP to generate all the neato surround sound effects, as well be a "broadband" gateway, effectively turning the X-Box into a 'residential gateway' for everything hooked up to it.
Great - Aureal had a tradition for closed source Linux support, so it's likely that NVidia (who seem to be following in their footsteps here) would do much the same.
NVidia supply a kernel driver. Like the Aureal drivers, it's a few wrappers that interface with a binary object. If you find yourself having kernel problems when using it, it's unlikely that you'll get much support from the kernel developers because it's difficult to tell whether the bug's due to a problem with the kernel or a problem with NVidia's lump of code that is sitting in kernel space. NVidia also supply an XFree driver. Again, you're using a chunk of binary code with no source availability. One of the end results is that if XFree gets upgraded, there's no guarantee that your NVidia driver will work. Even if it does, it makes it harder to tell whether any strange crashes you have are due to bugs in XFree or bugs in NVidia's code.
By using binary drivers, you're throwing away a great deal of the support that makes free software useful. I was able to work around fundamentally broken hardware in a bunch of machines I once had to deal with due to the fact that I had the source available to me and the authors of that source were willing to talk to me about it. In the end it turned out to be a one line patch. The chances of me being able to do this sort of thing with closed drivers is approximately zero, and the chances of the hardware company providing me with a fix in the timescale I required (the machines arrived on a Thursday. The users were arriving on the Saturday) were not much better.
Not that I'm complaining about NVidia's hardware, of course. What I'm concerned about is that not everybody realises that by using these drivers they do lose one of the major advantages of free software and don't do a great deal to encourage hardware manufacturers to release specifications in future. It certainly doesn't do much to help people on non-i386 platforms.
check out this white boy trying to be controversial.
one eminem is enough.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
On a more serious note, the authors talk about a conspiracy that Microsoft's Xbox will punch the PC industry in the nuts with the whole Delay to DX8 causing NVIDIA, 3dfx and ATI to delay the releases of their next generation 3D chips, which are dependant upon the unreleased API.
;-)
This would certainly not endear them to the DoJ, let alone lend credibility to their comical denial of monopolistic behavior. I keep expecting M$ to learn and shape up, but it's like there's pattern of behavior... Too bad Bill's not in California, we could possibly get him on the 3 strikes and cool him off in the pokey
Interesting side note (considering for a second the capacity at the XBox to do other than play games) The Register concerning the ditching of M$ ActiveTV by AT&T
It's all true! ±5%
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Well, GL hasn't been sitting still, either. GL was released 1.0 on 1992. 1.1 in 1997, and 1.2 came out in 1999.
1.2 adds 3d texture mapping, multi-texturing, new pixel formats, specular lighting, level-of-detail etc.
V1.3 is under proposal, though I can't find anything concrete about it.
But this is why I asked; what is D3D doing that's surpassing OpenGL?
The nick is a joke! Really!
GPL Deconstructed
DirectX is winning lots of developers because MS actually implements new features and concepts ina standardized way in the API. All you get with GL is a bunch of vendor-supplied extensions. The paradigm for development hasn't changed at all for GL, whereas DX has moved along with the times.
That said, I think GL has a superior implementation. It's just a shame that GL is withering away in the face of new feature developments, losing to the MS machine.
What ever happened to the new 3D API, called Farenheit, that was to be co-developed by MS and SGI? I remember it was announced not long after the GL vs. DX wars went into full swing, about 3 years ago. Where did that go?
Really, 13-16 year old? To play doctor I suppose?
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
While the XBox may have superior performance over something like the Playstation2, think about what matters most in a game machine.... the games!
Microsoft's developers are all PC platform developers which means most of the games of the XBox are going to be nothing more than ports of PC Games (why wouldn't you just play them on the PC in the first place), whereas Sony has a huge developer base, experienced in developing CONSOLE titles. Sure, there's some overlap, some games play equally well on either console or PC, but some just flat out SUCK ported to console (Descent, Doom... need I say more?).
Just something to think about, the hardware alone cannot make the system. It takes software thats popular to drive a system to the top. Why do you think that the original playstation still has new titles coming out for it? It's certainly not the fastest/prettiest console out now... it's cause the system is popular, and it's popular cause it has a lot of games, and some extremely good ones.
It will be some time before the XBox gets enough really good titles behind it to do anything to the popularity of Sony's and Sega's systems.
I'm not saying that Microsoft will or won't succeed (I hope they succeed just enough to hemhorrage a bunch of cash into this disaster called X-Box, and then get the rug pulled out from under them...) but Sony was in exactly the same position a few years ago. They had a huge name, no experience in consoles. Nowadays, the Playstation accounts for a very significant fraction of their revenues.
It's been done before.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Since the X-Box is going to be using a 733MHz PIII, which, by the time it is released, will be pretty slow, is it possible to just stick in a newer, faster, processor?
get nemulator
HAHAHHAHAAHHAAahahahahaha. Thank you, that was great :)
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
> It's already here AND it's cross-platform.
Which is *exactly* why Microsoft won't use it. "Cross Platform" gives them nightmares. MS's mission is to lock consumers into *their* products, *their* systems, and *their* way of doing things. That way consumers are forced to keep buying MS, no matter what sh*t the company puts out.
Cross Platform means easy migration, which is wonderful for consumers, and horrible for Microsoft. If you could easily pick up shop and take your business elsewhere, MS would be forced to provide a decent product to win your business. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world. I keep hoping that consumers will wake up and realize that MS's actions are not in their best interest, but that's probably asking too much.
I can dream, can't I?
--Lenny
I can go anywhere on earth and buy a sony radio or phone. The majority of the world's population is not computer enabled, think about it.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
The GeForce is quality hardware, but I won't spend a dime for a black box lacking proper documentation. Intelectual property my ass, this is a $400 card we're talking about! Can you imagine Ford claiming they can't document the internals of your new car because of "Intelectual Property" issues? Would you buy that car? Would you have bought an S-100 Dazler shipped without documetation?
I'm a long time Linux user, and let me say: after going through the undocumented video card mess from Diamond years back, nVidia gains no "loving affection" from me. The last thing I need is to be forced into a video card upgrade because nVidia stopped updating drivers for MY old card and nVidia can't release their "Intelectual Property" (read: documentation) to their customers. Been there once before, NOT AGAIN!
Well, I've been a consol gamer and pc gamer for the longest time, and there are plusses and minues to each of them.
IMO, the best thing about console games is the ease of use. No worries about compatablity, tweaking environemnt variables, installation nightmares. Just open the box and put in the (cartridge/CD/holo-cube), and play.
As for the display on a tv, the display may not alway be that great, but just think how much a 60" monitor would cost, then check out the same size tv... Of course, you could always hook up your tv to the computer, but that leads to my third point. With console games, you've got a joystick for control, no more, no less. No worries about where to put the keyboard/mouse/joystick/external drives/other misc hardware. If I tried to set up my computer in the living room, we wouldn't have room for much of anything else. However, I've got about 6 or so consoles hidden in the tv stand, and they rarely get in the way.
Don't take me wrong, I love PC games, and could give plenty of benefits for them as well, but being a pc gamer yourself, I don't need to.
-Space for rent
Halo does look good. How many more can you name? It takes many many many games to make a console a success.
Oh, and Halo's been confirmed for the Mac at least.
Halo is coming out on Mac and PC.
I think MS was planning on making it an Xbox exclusive, but the rabid backlash from the Bungie fanbase was massive.
I hope they don't delay Halo until Xbox... By then, it might be outdated. If you've read any of Carmack's interviews about Doom 3, it seems he's brewing up a monster in graphical prowress.
- Amon CMB
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
I found this interesting article on the internet recently:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/x box.html
I'm wondering about those legacy PC bottlenecks on the xbox. It's on a x86 based processor going against a 100% 128-bit PS2 Emotion Engine that's got a main 300 mhz CPU and two vector coprocessors that blow Pentium III floating point ops out of the water.
For example, SquareSoft is trying to make their beat-em-up, The Bouncer, have Dolby Digital 5.1 support in gameplay. They used to think it was impossible, but it might not be so with the VU units. It seems MS just thought "Hey, we can beat 300 mhz easy!" without thinking about the hidden trump card in the PS2. Also, I noticed the 6.4 GB/sec memory bandwidth on the Xbox (shared, so it indludes video memory speed). And the PS2 has dedicated VRAM that flies at 48 GB/sec. So what do you guys think?
- Amon CMB
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
>...don't get to strip bars much. ...We don't have this problem in New York, any place a man can be topless, a woman has a right to be topless, too.
Are you trying to tell me that men in New York take off their tops in strip bars? I always knew that place was flaky.
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
There's also a very satirical "General Industry Interview" (involving Sony, Sega, 3dfx, NVIDIA, ATI etc...)with everyone involved in the industry that either is inside the Xbox or has tried to get into it over the pasty year. I'd agree.. it's been a pasty year.
click here to incinerate homeless people
... is a delay in $400 video cards really going to rochambeau the PC gaming industry? I think not...
if NVidia started making network controllers and soundcards? Now that would rock! Considering that numerous Aureal employees are now working for NVidia, and Guillemot is a trusted partner, this could spell a new era for soundcards. Enough of this AC97, skimpily buffered, below 64 hardware channels crap; it's time for a MAN's soundcard!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Rumor has it, that they are working on a
Southbridge Chipset for motherboards, now that would be cool and makes sense in the xbox contex.
"think of it as evolution in action"
Microsoft taking on Sony?? You got to be kidding. Sony is the second most widely known name in the world (behind Coke). I don't think they're going to roll over anytime soon. I wouldn't be suprised if the X-box was Microsoft's Network Computer. Sorry Larry, the time wasn't right for that either...
What directX conspiracy? Sony is the name for game consoles. Have they even heard of Nvidia or DirectX?
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
Microsoft is clearly pouring a great deal of money into the XBox. A lot of it is, of course, going to nVidia. nVidia in turn, uses this big bag of free money to create a killer 3D accellerator (200 million triangles / second I believe?) for the XBox. Clearly it's unlikely that nVidia would not simultaneously (or a shorttime thereafter the XBox is released) present video card manufacturers with this technology. I also doubt that nVidia would do anything to limit this accellerator by making it DX8 specific. It'll support OpenGL too. (Why wouldn't they support OpenGL? After getting their act together with XF86 support, they're regained the loving affection of the Linux community.) So, after all that wordiness, my point is that we can actually thank Microsoft for helping to fund a truly great product on the part of nVidia. Thanks Bill!
Vendors should stop waiting and start coding their games in OpenGL/Glide/SDL for Linux.
Why wait for Microsoft to finally release API's
when you can start doing it now for Open Source.
Think how much more Blizzard would make if they
re-released all their titles for Linux and also had a hand in improving the API interfaces.
Gaming in Linux would take off like a rocket and leave toys like X-Box in the dust.
So please clue me in on the advancing nature of Direct3d.
At least, I'm separating DirectX from Direct3d, because comparing the sound libraries of DirectX is meaningless.
If I'm not mistaken, all of the progress in Direct3d, from v1-v6 was to *catch* up to OpenGL.
Which means, as of D3d6, MS is starting to reach parity with OpenGL.
Which features are you talking about, in terms of GL, is M$ overtaking them? GL does rely on vendor extensions because it makes sense; each vendor will *want* to supply optimizations and features that they have, and when everyone else has those features, the GL board will increment the version number and include that feature into the set.
M$'s way is to implement in software mode, what isn't found in hardware, isn't it? That's not terribly useful, actually, if software can't keep up, and if software can keep up, then there is no need for there to be vendor implementations, right? So software supplied multi-pass texture is useless in this light.
So as far as I can tell, GL isn't behind and M$ isn't actually doing all that much.
The nick is a joke! Really!
GPL Deconstructed
Sorry to break up your rituous rant, but the parent was *sarcasm*. The P Naughton bit should have tipped you off.
what does the word "nvidia" mean anyway? i guess it means feeding monkeys with 2 cups of powdered coffe granules and then letting them code device drivers for GeForce on Xfree86 4.
senseless prediction made by people like me tend to disturb the Force
But this is why I asked; what is D3D doing that's surpassing OpenGL?
As far as I can tell, nothing. All the 3D accelerated functions available on my NVIDIA card are exposed under the OpenGL 1.2 spec, GL_ext_ extensions or on NVIDIA specific extensions - GL_NV_. This is of course on Linux using the NVIDIA drivers and the NVIDIA GL/gl.h etc. headers converted to Linux. In many respects the functionality of the card is available faster on OpenGL than DirectX because the Vendor specific extensions do not have to go through the OpenGL ARB before being implemented, whereas vendors are dependent on DirectX being releases with their own extensions built in.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Could have been worse. They could have said "... kick the PC Industry in the jimmy." Boy, is that overused or what? Then there's always my favorite, "... shove the PC Industry's face in it's sweaty nutsack." Mmmm ... imagery.
This is my boom sick...
I'm all for burying trolls, but for goodness sake, have a sense of humor.
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
Microsoft maintains that the starting price of the X-Box will be competitive with other consoles (especially PS2), so that places it at $300. Really, when you think about it, they can't sell it for anything higher than that; the market has certain expectations for console prices.
X-Box has a mascot, her name is Raven (there's a few pics on that page). I'm sure we can expect to see her in a few games.
And here is a list of X-Box developers. The only major console game company I can think of that's missing from there is Squaresoft, who is pretty tight with Sony.
On a more serious note... Microsoft's Xbox will punch the PC industry in the nuts
At least Hemos didn't say it this time
Trolls throughout history:
Jonathan Swift
--Ty
I don't understand why you'd wait for the next version of DX--why not just use OpenGL? It's already here AND it's cross-platform.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
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so far, I've only played one game on my brother's playstation. I've always been a computer gamer. Looking at the stats on this thing and knowing that NVidia is putting some pretty killer hardware in there, I might have to consider one of these when they are released. Is there a price guesstimate out there anywhere?
Also, are there any major game makers planning on developing for the X-Box? Maybe an X-Box only type game? Like Mario is only for Nintendo, something like that?
Come to think of it, I wonder if the X-Box will have a mascot? Maybe a cute little Borg!
I'm on a chair.
I think you mean pastry.
-Homer
With some serious 3D crunching, broadband and (I think--the article's verbiage gets a little dense at this point) voice recognition, doesn't this sound like a great opportunity for some serious networked virtual reality? I can live without Quake, but I'd sure buy one to be able to have my own little desktop avatar.
--meredith
--meredith
Sometimes a scream is better than a thesis
May I have your attention please,
...........
may I have your attention please,
will the real bruce perens please stand up,
I repeat will the real bruce perens please stand up
.....we're gonna have a problem here.........
Ya'll act like you never seen a slash poster before
mouse all on the floor
like mom and daddy just burst in the door
and started whoopin yer ass worse than before
they first had endorsed
buyin' ya a crappy computer (aaaaaah)
It's the return of the...
"awww..wait, no wait, you're kidding,
he didn't just say what I think he did,
did he?"
and Mr. Cray said...
nothing you idiots, Mr Cray's dead
he's locked in my bassment
microsoft women love Sig '11
chicka chicka chicka bruce perens,
"I'm sick of him, lookit him
walkin around, grabbin his GNU know what
flippin' to GNU know who"
"yeah, but he's so smart though"
yeah, I probably got a couple of screws up in my head loose
but no worse than what's goin on in your sister's webcam (eheheheh)
sometimes, I wanna get on ZD and just let loose
but cant, but it's cool for RMS to hump a dead GNU
My mouse is on your link, My mouse is on your link
and if you're lucky, I might just give it a little click
and that's the message that we deliver to little kids
and expect them not to know what a free software is
of course they're gonna know what Microsoft is
by the time they hit 4th grade
they got MS-NBC, dont they?
we ain't nothing but omnivores
well, some of us carnivores
who read other people's mail like crackwhores
but if we can read your e-mail like it's available
then there's no reason that a man can't forge spam from your account
but if you feel like I feel, I got the antedote
trolls wave your penis birds, sing the chorus and it goes........
I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so won't the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
Sig 11 don't got to cuss in his posts to get Karma
well I do, so fuck him and fuck you too
you think I give a damn about my Karma
half of you trolls can't even stomach me, let alone stand me
"but bruce, what if you win, wouldn't it be weird"
why? so you guys can just lie to get me here
so you can sit me here next to Natalie here
shit,Enoch Root's momma better switch me chairs
so I can sit next to trollmastah and Post First
and hear em argue over who modded it down first
little troll, flamed me back on IRC
"yeah, he's fast, but I think he types one-handed, hee hee"
I should download some audio on MP3
and show the world how you released it BSD (aaaaaah)
I'm sick of you little troll and l33t groups
all you do is annoy me
so I have been sent here to destroy you
and there's a million of us just like me
who post like me, who just don't give a fuck like me
who code like me, walk, talk and act like me
and just might be the next best thing, but not quite me......
I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so won't the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
I'm like a head trip to listen to
cause I'm only givin you things
you troll about with your friends inside you rabbit hole
the only difference is I got the balls to say it
in front of ya'll and I aint gotta be false or sugar coated at all
I just get on the web and spit it
and whether you like to admit it (riiip)
I just shit it better than 90% you trollers out can
then you wonder how can
kids eat up these posts like gospel verse
it's funny,cause at the rate I'm going when I'm thirty
I'll be the only person in the chat rooms flirting
cyberin with nurses when I'm jackin off to porno's
and I'm jerkin' but this whole bag of viagra isn't working
in every single person there's a bruce perens lurkin
he could be workin at Micron Inc., spittin on your SDRAM
or in the printer queue, flooding, writin I dont give a fuck
with his windows down and his system up
so will the real perens please stand up
and click 1 of those fingers till you drag up
and be proud to be outta your mind and outta control
and 1 more time, loud as you can, how does it go?
I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
cause I'm Bruce Perens, yes, I'm the real Perens
all you other Bruce Perens' are just imitating
so wont the real Bruce Perens please stand up,
please stand up, please stand up
haha guess it's a bruce perens in all of us........
fuck it let's all stand up
Will the real Bruce Perens Please Stand Up
If you want to go that route, OpenGL, at version 1.2, is 5.8 versions behind DirectX 7.0a! Wow, Microsoft sure rules!
Direct3D just got caught up to OpenGL 1.1 in 6.x, IIRC. The "new features" in DX7 and DX8 are mostly already present in OpenGL, or they're bogged down in some standards body.
DirectX is also a lot more than just a 3D API; I'm always amazed at people comparing "DirectX" (which is a hole bag of stuff) vs. OpenGL (which is just a 2D/3D graphics API).
- chrish
IMHO he says what his advisers want him to say, then he says what he wants to. Pity is, he doesn't realize how much this qualifies him to run for president. It's like the kiss of death.
It's all true! ±5%
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
First of all, not all games are made for the 13 year old hyperactive destructive kid (and I don't believe all of that media bullshit which tells us that violent games make kids violent; you can tell what is real by the age of 3..). There are actually games which are calm, and require some thought. I'm not saying it's gonna make you a genius or be harder than your Robust Digital Signal Processing class, but they aren't made to be for the twitchy-fingered young-uns.
Second, you might notice who plays the games: there are actually a lot of people in their 20s or 30s who play games, and they play all kinds of games. However, I must say that it is true that most young gamers do play twitchy games....
Oh. And there are Barbie games, as well as, gasp, a Barbie printer! It's sooooooo cute!
Ahem.
Just tryin' to defend us gamers some... Hyuk....
Fnord.
Quake 3 Arena!
Diablo 2
Counter Strike!!!
The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind!
I will not buy a machine that is completely controlled by Microsoft. Its bad enough they have so much influence in the PC world... Too bad Sony is a bitch of a company as well... I guess I'll go with Indrema for my console needs, since they have the most open platform.
They misunderestimated me. -- George W. Bush
They make games for the 13-16 year old teenage boy market because they believe that the market for boys is larger than for girls. Besides, blowing stuff up and killing people has been a staple of the videogame diet for a very long time. (I think it really got in full swing when Mortal Combat came out)
I'm not closed-minded, your just wrong!
Is Bill trying to tell us something?
Maybe Microsoft just can't do anything well...
My current GF loves these games as much as any guy I've met.. :)
So do a lot of women...
I think, if you look at the amount of time spent behind a keyboard by gender division, you'd find the amount of games purchasers/players are consistent with the PC home users figures.