Slashdot Mirror
Stolen Enigma Machine Held For Ransom
AaronLane writes: "The BBC has a story on the robbery, and ransom of one of the only three German Enigma encryption machines from World War Two. The people holding the machine say they bought it unknowingly, and want to be compensated before giving it back, or they will destroy it. The Bletchley Park musuem, from which the machine was stolen, is offering 25,000 pounds." [timothy butts in --] Here's a link to the slashdot story posted when the machine was stolen.
The Spanish also used other Nazi sourced hardware for a long time. Their airforce was flying locally built Mescherschmitt Bf 109s (although with Rolls Royce Merlin engines) until the late 1960s.
I'm not either, but what counts is 'intent'. If I have no idea something is stolen, and buy it in good faith for a reasonable price, it's mine.. even if it was stolen. This is how it works in the netherlands, and probably in the entire EU. ofcourse.. if you buy an original enigma, that in itself is enough reason to at least suspect it was stolen... which is enough for the law.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Nothing is ever so clear-cut.
:)
The intelligence was provided by the Polish (who were breaking some German Army Enigma before the war, and got some of this info, including an Army Enigma, to the British) the French (why had a German spy giving them Enigma codebooks) and the British and Canadians (who captured enigma wheels and codebooks on *several* raids on sinking U-boats and German weather ships). The British (Alan Turing) were the ones who were working on the codebreaking efforts during the critical years of the war.
It wasn't the Enigma machine itself that was so valuable (they knew how it worked before the war) but instead the wheels (especially when a wheel was added) and also the codebooks that contained the wheel and plugboard settings.
The Americans provided additional bombes (mechanical computers used to brute-force Enigma settings) to the effort later in the war. The Americans were also busy breaking the Japanese Naval cypher as well (entirely different).
Everyone contributed - there is lots of national pride to go around.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
Rich...
Ignore Alien Orders
Or better yet, you feed it a barcode input from a CueCat scanner and it will tell you where to download the DeCSS source MP3 via Napster.
--
Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
This machine was stolen. A widely publicized fact due to the massive attention the media placed on it. What doesn't make sense to me is this: If you are purchasing an Enigma machine (and this is mysteriously available right after one is stolen from Bletchley) you are not the 'average antique collector' in the first place and should have more wits about you than to make this type of 'mistake'. This type of collector is much smarter than the average bear and I am not buying into thier story, they would know the difference between the various models of the Enigma (2, 3 and 4 wheel). The fact that they are threatening to destroy this tangible piece of history also points to this party not being a real collector either. A real collector would not threaten to do this as true collectors view it as a privelge to be in posession of a part of history for the time that they have it. I think that this party is more than likely the ones who stole the machine. The ransom notes are (imho) obviously from the people who stole the damn thing. They couldn't find someone to purchase thier prize and in an act of desparation are trying to quadruple the reward for returning the machine to its rightful owners via extortion. /. $authors)
Note to self: IF s/N ratio>=facts(old news +
Prospecting Stinks. Stop Wasting Time on Cold Calling.
"They are wanting recompense for something they bought in goodwill - they want their money back. We are hoping this person will get in touch."
Goodwill? The British cops sound like they will be grateful for this person(who for all they know is the real thief). So I'd like to know - would they give this person the ransom and congratulate him for his goodwill? This definitely wouldn't happen in America, and I find it hard to believe it would happen in Britain. Here there would be no question - the person would go to jail for a long time if the cops got to him.
I watch the sea.
I saw it on TV.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Wasn't the first one stolen by the Polish? Or plans for it or something.
No they bought it. The german military adapted an existing commercial product. Maybe doing this is a bad idea...
I'm not up on my English law, but in the Colonies across the Atlantic, when you purchase stolen property, irregardless of whether or not you knew it was stolen, you are required to return it and eat what you paid for the property as a loss.
No compensation, no ransom, just pure honesty.
Only deal with honest people, and you don't get hurt. Always be honest, and you increase the chances of other people always dealing with honest folks.
It's like encryption. Only take emails from trusted sources. Encourage your friends and family to go the same. Eventually, everyone uses encryption and you can grow the keys on your chain.
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
You should probably go re-read your naval history. The naval enigma machine that the story in U-571 is based on was, in fact, captured by the RN in 1941. That much is correct. However, in 1944, the USS Guadalcanal battle group captured the U-505, including its code books and naval enigma. The U-505 is currently on display in front of the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Not sure where the U-505's engima wound up, but if I had to guess, it's probably at the NSA museum.
IIRC, it's right in front of the exit of the Sub, on the left, in the museum.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Police want the author of the ransom letters to contact Detective Chief Inspector Simon Chesterman, of Milton Keynes CID, on 01908 686000 and quote reference number 86519900, to negotiate the exchange.
This news just in.. Here is a transcript of an anonymous call just placed into the police on the possible return of the enigma machine
Inspector Simon Chesterman: Hello?
Anonymous caller: Hello Inspector Chesterman, I calling about the stolen enigma machine that I have in my possesion and would like to negotiate return of the item.
Ispector: What item are you calling about now?
caller: The enigma machine
Inspector: The enigma machine, let's see here what was that about now?
caller: Someone stole it from a museum, I bought it in good faith, and now would like to negotiate its safe return.
Insepctor: Sorry not ringing a bell. Do you have a case reference number?
Caller: A what?
Inspector: A case reference number. I can't lookup the case without the number.
Caller: I'm sorry I don't have it.
Inspector: Then I'm sorry, can't help ya
Caller: Look I'm sure that you have the case file sitting right on top of your desk. Or just ask anyone else, I'm sure they will know what I am talking about.
Inspector: I'm sorry we are extrodinarily busy today so no one is free to ask.
Caller: It's very simple. This device is a high ticket and newsworthy item. Just take my info. I'm sure that you will get a call from the museum soon asking if anyone has called, and will have my info handy.
Inspector: Well I would like to accomodate but I can't file your info without the case file, which I can't find without the reference number.
Caller: Oh bloody hell. {hangs up}
Inspector: {to himself} If only people would be prepared before they call...
you mean the ransom note looks like a Micosoft product key?...hehe
Except that the DMCA is a US law and the Bletchley Park Museum is in the UK. Can't quite force our way on the Brits, now, can we?
Which is located in Woolsley Itch Underhamptstead Oldbury Cottenginton Westbloodyhammersmith.
--
Chief Frog Inspector
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Unknowingly, indeed!
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
--
Here's a link to a slashdot review of the Code Book by Simon Singh, which covers this stuff :-)
(It's by Jon Katz BTW, so you might not want to read it....)
Can't quite force our way on the Brits, now, can we?
;-)
Nope. Only the EU is allowed to do that.
Steven E. Ehrbar
To whom should we make the check payable. Thank you. Hello, Scotland Yard? I need a job on . . . that's right, no prisoners. Jolly good. Bye now.
~~~
The fools! Instead of stealing the Enigma machine, they could instead sue Bletchley Park for bypassing the Enigma machine's access protection device! By suing under the DMCA, they could bankrupt Bletchley Park and seize all their assets, including the Enigma machine!
Silly robbers. Don't they understand the way to commit crimes these days is to use the law?
--
What happens when you outlaw guns
CYGQ RTTY FAPRRG QYIDH GBNV XCM SKAF LPQFRPLS!! or the machine gets it...
---
---
Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
A short description of how the machine worked.
An Enigma simulation and some good links.
Some cool stuff!
----
Josh
for a Janet Reno-esque invade and reclaim project... kinda like that Southpark espisode - "Just give us the Enigma!"
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
The yanks stole it from the Germans originally, so really the Germans should get it back, not the Brits :-)
Uhm....
I saw one at the Natl Crypto Museum and one at the MIT flea market last year (wish I had the $7500 he wanted..).
If an Enigma shows up at MIT, you know there's more than three in the world.
-- Ever notice that fast-burning fuse looks exactly the same as slow-burning fuse? I didn't... (Edgar Montrose)
I think they should use the other enigma to write where the money will be deposited, then have them decrypt it. Just for the fun of it.
But then, when they try to pick up the money and the cops get them we could hear funny stuff like from scooby doo.
Ex: "I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you darned americans decrypting my code!"
I'm sure that there are more than 3 surviving Enigma machines. It is more likely that there are only 3 of this particular model, which IIRC has one more encoding wheel than the standard model. Abount 15 years ago I saw an Enigma in a museum of occupation in Jersey, the Channel Islands. Left over from when the islands were liberated. I can't recall how many wheels this one had.
Let's call it cs_enigma. No hostages, but the counter-terrorists have to storm into the blokes' apartment and recover the machine. The enigma itself will probably be an add-on (item_enigma), so when a CT picks it up, he has to evacuate the premises and run for the main street! "Counter-Terrorists Win!"
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
If the original owners give in, they're just gonna end up encouraging more fuckers. I wanna see the SAS in action! Yeah baby...
*ahem*
And why ransom it? How fucked up are these people that they know what the enigma machine is but they've never heard of ebay?
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
I dunno. See, in the US they could be charged with posession of stolen property, under that should they destroy it, they would be elligble for criminal and civil damages. Not exactly the smartest bunch if their identity is known.
I'd like to hear what any brits feel their law covers in these terms.
--
Chief Frog Inspector
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Oh, sure -- why, just the other day I was at a yard sale and saw an Enigma machine, one of the propellers from the plane Admiral Yamamoto was shot down in, and the original V2 plans signed by Wehrer von Braun.
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
This is a job for 007! Now that Milosevic is out of the way, what else could Bond do?
R could come up with all kinds of devlishly clever gadgets and weapons, including a £200,000 BMW (which Bond would wreck in the first 10 minutes). Bond could destroy streets, buildings, parked cars, and maybe do a crop circle or two, all with lots of shooting and huge orange fireballs. That'd show those mangy bastards that they can't extort Bletchly Park Museum out of £25,000!
--
Chief Frog Inspector
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
There is a four wheel naval enigma included in the U-505 exhibit at the Chicago Museum of Science and Technology.
That kinda sucks... even though the Allies cracked the code (I think) before the machine was stolen the first time it's kind of a shame that a Brit is willing to destroy one of the artifacts that prob saved his way of life from being wiped off the face of the earth. I mean, if Enigma wouldn't have been cracked (or stolen) the UK would have been pushed closer to the brink of destruction then it was.
Message to Enigma Owner: Have some respect for what your parents fought for and give the friggin thing back!
BOSTON SUCKS!
Too bad there are only three of them or you could imagine a Beowu[CHOKE-GAGGGG]
NO CARRIER
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
They would have to go after the people who sold it to them for perpetrating a fraud or something. So for them to say that they won't return it without compensation is to hold the wrong people responsible. And it could be considered blackmail.
never mind jail terms if britain has laws against destruction of national treasures, historical artifacts, etc.
This sound suspiciously like something the original crooks would do, but that is pure speculation on my part.
- - - - - - - -
"Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem."
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I'm just picking a regionally derisive term for the perpetrators of this crime. They're demanding money for returning a piece of history, and both my grandfathers fought in World War II (one an engineer in the Normandy to Belgium run, the other in the North African campaign), so it's only natural to take this personally.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer