KDE 2.0 Final Released

Well, as the title says - KDE 2.0 final is out! You can download it here or here or you can look at the mirrors (mirrors please!) Note: RH 6.2, FreeBSD and Solaris packages will be available soon. While you're downloading it, you may want to look at Kivio (a nice diagramming and flowcharting tool for Linux/KDE), or look for some applications for your KDE2 here. I've been using lately KDE 2.0 for a while and I must say - great work KDE team.

Comments

Party at #kde :)

[RPoet]

Now would be a great time to join the celebrations on the #kde channel at irc.kde.org. That is, if you manage to get a connection -- the server seems pretty swamped right now...
--

Re:where oh where has my task bar gone?

[Rich]

Install the KasBar panel applet and you can have the separated again. Currently non-embedded applets like this are not part of the release API however because we want to clean this part of the code up first.

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[Bongo]

My dad isn't ignorant, he isn't and idiot. He could talk the hell out of you in politics or sociology any day.

Hammer smashes nail on head. It's a mixing of categories and labels,

"Doesn't know unix" --> "ignorant of unix" --> "ignorant person".

Likewise for the category "stupid". But hell, it's even in the school system...

"logic/math/word thinking" --> "intelligent"

Which 'ignores' spacial/mechanical/musical and visual thinking.

Apple stole it from XEROX

[alacrityfitzhugh]

Duh! Apple thinks more than one button on a mouse is too complex. You must be pretty simple too?

Re:Apple stole it from XEROX

[be-fan]

Replicants are essentially like a highly simplified OLE. It allows you do embed objects into programs. For example, if you run a ticker program, you can embed that into the desktop (if you're so inclined) You can also embed things in your programs. There is a BeBook (the BeOS API Doc) browser called BeHappy. The developer wanted the thing to be integrated, but had no desire to code his own HTML rendrer. So he just made it so the program embeds NetPositive into his program and browses from there. Quite useful, but still underpowered.

Re:Apple stole it from XEROX

[be-fan]

Idiot.

A) Just because Apple's GUI works with a one button interface doesn't mean that they think anything more is complex.

B) Apple's UI guidelines kicks ass. I can't stand the company itself, but I've used Macs several times and the UI is great. The OS is a piece of shit, but the UI is wonderful. Take, for example, the menu-bar across the top. Not only does it greatly simplify things (since all apps have a menu bar in more or less the same place) it greatly shrinks the amount of screen space devoted to gadgetry like that. When I see that Apple's thin little bar takes the place of GNOME's entire monstrosity plus the "file edit view" bar present in every single app I see a well designed UI. When I see how well input boxes are labled and how usefull error messages are, I see a good UI. Even BeOS, which owes a lot of its friendliness to the Mac, still can't compete in some UI areas (though it outshines it in some others)

Re:Apple stole it from XEROX

[scrytch]

Technicalties and features count for something, but FEEL is king. For example, my mom just wandered into BeOS (the dual boot starts BeOS as default) and asked me to get Windows back. I asked her what she didn't like about it. She said it just felt bad. She's been using Windows for two days. Feel counts and it counts big time.

It doesn't help that out of some desire to be different and special, they used control-tab instead of alt-tab (even the mac has alt-tab, it just has a different name for alt -- same key position tho). And to switch it to alt, you have to reverse your accellerator keys from alt to control. Then there was the way they made it two-dimensional, with alt/ctl-tab going through groups and having to use the arrow keys to flip through each one. I never got used to that. Then there were replicants ... never did get the point of those, they felt like a window manager bug the way they had no borders or draggability.

Maybe they fixed all that in the latest version. Too late for me, I still don't really have a use for it that isn't already covered by a Mac, Windows, or Unix.

Re:Apple stole it from XEROX

[JasonKB]

Hum. I totally disagree.

First off, There is an option in KDE2 for having a shared menubar for all KDE2 apps. I use this myself. That + one more small panel seems perfect, because it gives a menu of all apps on machine, a tasklist and clock, launchers and desktop switchers, which the MacOS doesn't have.

When I use a Mac, I am constantly plagued with running more than one app. If I want to raise one browser window, the GUI forces me to raise all of my browser windows. And if I want to switch apps, I must go through a menu. And there is no way to show the desktop instantly.

Paging through Apple's OSX pages, I have noticed one glaring thing: It keeps raving about all of its new GUI features. The problem: KDE2 has implemented almost all of them. This gives me great hope for the future, with a contemporary free IDE and Office suite.

Good job KDE team!

Re:Apple stole it from XEROX

[be-fan]

Technicalties and features count for something, but FEEL is king. For example, my mom just wandered into BeOS (the dual boot starts BeOS as default) and asked me to get Windows back. I asked her what she didn't like about it. She said it just felt bad. She's been using Windows for two days. Feel counts and it counts big time.

Re:Apple stole it from XEROX

[be-fan]

The Alt-Tab thing can be switch with three clicks (literally) Also, the group thing is due to the way BeOS organizes by application, then by window. The Deskbar is the same way (two levels, one for apps, one for windows.) As for replicants, they kick ass! BeOS has no need for the complexity of Kparts, or whatever because messaging is already built into the system. Replicants allow you to use replicant enabled apps in your own programs. They're a bit underpowered, but they are a much better solution than the morass of code that makes up most object systems.

Re:Apple stole it from XEROX

[scrytch]

> The Alt-Tab thing can be switch with three clicks (literally)

At the cost of switching the key used for all your accellerators too. I just wanted to switch that one feature, not make another big global change.

> Also, the group thing is due to the way BeOS organizes by application, then by window

I understand the thinking behind it just fine. I just can't stand it.

> Replicants allow you to use replicant enabled apps in your own programs

Translation for an end user? When I made a replicant of NetPositive from some menu, I forget where, it didn't seem all that useful. Was that just some kind of experimental feature to show it off to developers or something?

I like BeOS from an architectural point of view. It's a precocious new kid, but it seems to be an orphan without a home. It's like linux is for many other end users: "It's neat, but ... what do I *do* with it?"

Md5 Check Sums

[meekjt]

Does anyone have the MD5 check sums for the kde 2.0 rpm's? I can't find them anywhere.

Source is:

[Anonymous Coward]

here

Re:Konqueror

[pointwood]

So please let people speak for themselves instead of playing the victim and throwing a pitty party.

I, of course, don't think that all people on /. is like that, I'm just saying that I've seen a lot of flames against KDE. Imho KDE hasn't been treated very well here at /. - just look at the amount of stories that are Gnome related versus KDE related. /. is "Gnome-country" and if you use KDE, you suck.

I'm glad to see that you at least isn't that way - thanks!

Re:where oh where has my task bar gone?

[be-fan]

Really? The seperate taskbar was the whole reason I ditched KDE1! Those huge button bars at the bottom must be the most useless things ever invented. They take up screen space and the auto-popup never works correctly. What's I'd really like to see is something along the lines of LnLauncher (a BeOS shortcut program) It stays in the corner of the screen, and it never interferes unles you bring your mouse over a little rectangle in corner. Since mine's on the left, I almost never hit it by accident. (Unlike every other auto-hide menu I've ever used.) Of course, they should have an option for the big-ass buttons, if you're so inclined.

Re:KDE is a beauitful environment...

[pointwood]

I know I shouldn't comment on this (AC) post, but oh well...

Have you even tried KDE2.0 or one of the beta versions?

My guess is that you haven't - then how can you say that he is a karma whore? I think he might be right (I'm not saying he is)! KDE2 really is *that* much better than KDE1.x - it is highly modular integrates a lot of new features, "bells and whistles" without being slower than the previous versions!

Disclaimer: I use Helix Gnome right now, but I'm sure going to try out KDE2.

Is this true?

[minkwe]

The first tip I got when KDE2 started said:

KDE does not contain any GNU software that is licensed by the Free Software Foundation.

I'm I the only one that thinks, they didn't have to say this??
--------
You can bite the finger that fed you if it finds its self in your mouth again.

Re:Is this true?

[RelliK]

;-) I guess that's their way of "asking for forgiveness", as RMS insisted.

While I do not like this remark, I think KDE developers have a right to be pissed off at RMS. Heck, I was pissed off when he started preaching his forgiveness thing. With all due respect to RMS, I think that was unnecessary and, indeed, counter-productive.
___

Re:Xinerama?

[HeUnique]

You can use Xinerama (well, thats what I heard from users who used it) but this will take 30% of your CPU..

A better solution will be dual head support for Matrox, but no one done have it yet :(

no source available for Kivio

[pneuma_66]

I saw the announcement for Kivio on freshmeat yesterday, and i eagerly went to download it from their site. Since i use linuxppc, i look for the source or an srpm. Failing to find an srpm i downloaded the tarball thinking it was the source, it wasn't.
I emailed them about the source or a ppc rpm, and they said "the source will be released with our next version in the next couple weeks"
oh well, i dont get to play
cristiana

Re:Living with breasts

[stefanlasiewski]

Hrm, if the European developers are so equitable, where is the topless man?

Re:Weird filesystem traffic

[AArthur]

KConfig, the KDE 2 config file cache thing used to read way to many files when starting apps. In general it has been improved quite a bit from older version, but it still has room for improvement. But hey, it's a .0 release.

Re:Anyone else notice the breasts on the screensho

[ashpool7]

So, by "topless", you mean "annoying KDE window covering the breasts"? :)

Re:How to build a FAST kde2

[darial]

oops, I was a litttle whacked out there. It IS ok, and even apropriate to define -fno-exceptions. khtml correctly overrides this. It probably won't make a difference, but it made me feel better :)

THE BIG MOMENT

[tackat]

I photographed it ;)

ftp://derkarl.org/pub/incoming/kde2_out.jpg

Come and join our release-party on

#kde on irc.kde.org / irc.openprojects.net

Konqueror

[FranzBE]

I don't understand why nobody here seems to recognize Konqueror... Java, Javascript, NS-Plugins, CSS...WOW! To me Konqueror is the best thing happening in Linux Software at the moment. It's simply amazing how well it competes with IE (not to mention Netscape, Mozilla, Opera et al) Try it! [this posted with Konqueror - of course...]

Re:Konqueror

[pointwood]

Me too - Konqueror is pretty amazing!

But I think it is because most of the people here are pro Gnome and most of them don't intent to even just try KDE2 - it's nearly a religion to many (beats me why, I just want what suits me best).

We are all free to use whatever we like - right now I would say the best browser for Linux is Konqueror and I feel sad for all the (Gnome) people that haven't "met" Konqueror :-)

Re:Konqueror

[pointwood]

I'd debate that. Now if you'd said the Gnome/GNU/FSF true-believers are the more vocal, dare I say even annoying, posters, then that's another issue ;->

You are right, I'm not always that good in making myself clear and combined with the fact that english is not my native language...you get the point.
KDE has been "flamed" a lot because of licensing issues, but not any longer, so what are they going to bitch about now? :-)

(beats me why, I just want what suits me best)

If you keep making sense like that, you'll never get into the proper /. frame of mind...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

Re:Konqueror

[extrasolar]

Hmm...you know, stereotypes really suck. I have been and continue to someone who cares for the spirit of freedom with software and GNU system. I know why they are here.

But I am looking forward to KDE2. The biggest change in my mind is that KDE2 is Free Software. If it is Free Software and it has great usability and technical design...then I'm all for it.

So please let people speak for themselves instead of playing the victim and throwing a pitty party.

Its just that some of us value Freedom over Marketshare and Popularity. If you think that is strange, fanatic, or esoteric, then I might think the same of you. You. Just you. Not All-KDE-Users. I don't play that game.

Because that's the way its supposed to work.

Re:Living with breasts

[Rob Kaper]

If the person who put together those screenshots is so concerned about displaying "the human form", why aren't there any pics of some guy with his ass hanging out?

Being that person, I think I can answer that one.

That wallpaper simply happened to be one of the wallpapers I was using at the time I compiled the screenshots. That's basically the whole story.

No need to make a big fuzz about it.. I've seen many software screenshots with models/actresses on it. Gail Porter doesn't seem to mind having pictures taken where some off her clothes tend to fall off, so why should we?

This is just objectification of women.

I doubt she reads Slashdot, but shouldn't it really be up to Miss Porter herself whether she objects her pictures being looked at in/on magazines, sites and wallpapers?

I find it unprofessional to have it on the main KDE site.

I'll take this view under consideration when preparing new screenshots. Chances are I will create some new ones showing off 2.0 Final.

free visio replacements

[linuxbert]

i had a look at kvisio there and it looks like a great flowcharting tool, it even looked/felt like visio (wich is still a good product, microsoft hasent wrecked it yet) wich is good, because that what i know, but i am currious, are there any good network diagraming packages out there? for net diagrams visio cant be beat, or can it...

Re:free visio replacements

[StarFace]

Dia does networking diagrams. It comes with a decent set of templates. You just switch to the networking set an drag little servers and PCs onto the pasteboard. Connect them up with several options for lines, or make your own lines from scratch.

Dia is still a 'new-ish' program, so it isn't perfect, but it is getting good. I like the feel of the program a lot.

I thought their flowchart template was a little...quaint though. Punchcard templates? Really now.

Re:Very disappointed.

[shippo]

Since trying it I've seen quite a few segfaults just running the base applications, particularly when attempting to set a JPEG as the background wallpaper. I'll have a look at the code tonight.

Kmail also refuses to contact my pop3 account. I havn't yet looked into this in detail, but it doesn't even appear to attempt to contact my ISP. Pity, as I receive an HTML formatted email once a week and need to be able to read it, and I wonder if it renders it better than Netscape Communicator.

I've not yet tried the other packages (games, admin, office). Probably need to wait for the weekend for this.

Re:yay!

[be-fan]

Is it just me, or is does Win2K's vaunted stability totally break down when you do anything network related? I can run 3D Studio, Visual Studio, and Photoshop all at the same time with no problems, but the minute I try to browse my other computer of TCP/IP the bloody thing freezes hard. Funny thing, NT4 never used to have this problem, but Win98 did.

Re:Anyone else notice the breasts on the screensho

[tinla]

Gail wouldn't take kindly to such talk. She isn't topless, netpixie is correct.

3rd pic, seems a tad rude... but whats this ...She has a top on after all. (PIC 2 from left on top row, Fortunecity filter direct links to images. Click to enlarge.)

I agree that the top in question is very slight and may get you arrested in the land of the free, but thats beside the point.

Time to grow up and stop gaulking I'm afraid, even your mother had them.

Just wait until you see the picture of her arse (PIC 2 from left, bottom row. Click to enlarge.) the gnome boys have lined up for the login dialog on the next killer release...

I bet Suse feels stupid.

[be-fan]

Imagine, releasing their 7.0 a week before KDE2 final. He he. You realize what the problem is, don't you? All the desktop users who aren't UNIX gurus (you know, the guys still running the stock kernel) will be using RC1 (or whatever KDE2 Suse comes with) for the rest of their lives. I don't care what all the blowhard UNIX gurus say, KDE is too hard to install. Helix has the right idea with Helix GNOME and its about time that KDE (and the rest of Linux) gets with the program. Believe it or not, Storm and Corel are doing a great thing by mixing the GUI and apt-get, but
A) It still isn't pervasive enough, and
B) It still isn't automatic enough.
Windows Update is a very cool thing for the mass of users. The system takes care of itself, not the user. That's the way it should be.

PS> It's incredible how nearsighted the bulk of the Linux community is. They look at Windows and think, "oh, its ridiculously easy." That's just not true. No computers are yet to the ease of use of every other damn consumer product. Take, for example, resolution and refresh rate. You do realize, don't you, that 90% of home users without at least an intermediate computer knowledge (or a sysadmin) are sitting there running there 19" moniter at 640x480 @60hz. The computer should detect he monitor type, and configure itself. Then you have networking. What the hell is an IP? Your telco's equiptment (assuming DSL) should automatically configure your modem and your computer for you. Think of the present day cars. They do so much behind the scenes so the user doesn't have to bother with it. For example, our car automatically runs the AC fan on a hot day to evaporate the condensed water. Without features like that you end up with thousands of people with corroded radiators.

Sorry for the OT, but I had to vent. Moderate away!

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[smolix]

First off, there's always the update directory for SuSE distributions which allows you to update your packages automatically from yast. So it isn't quite that bad.

Secondly, The Kompany will be releasing a similar update tool as Helix/GNOME really soon for KDE.

Thirdly, if you use Sax2, it automatically does configure itself for the highest resolution that the monitor supports (i tried it with a TNT2 clone and it worked beautifully).

And of course, for the IP you can use DHCP. Works out of the box (at least for SuSE, but I don't know about Redhat).

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[be-fan]

Really. I'm sorry my attempts at installing KDE Betas 1.91 through 1.93 (both RMP and compiling) don't count as trying. Why do Slashdotters automatically assume that when I say something is too complicated, I haven't tried it?

Second, you got into dangerous territory the minute you hit the CLI. Third, RPM upgrades are a dangerous thing. The Slack package is probably the easiest thing to do, and that is still too difficult ("install_pkg kde2.tgz")
The problem is that it isn't automatic. I should be able to go to a webpage (or program) click on the things I want upgraded, and have the thing download all RPMS automatically (another sticky point, does anybody actually ever download only one RPM? Why keep them seperate?) install the thing, and reboot. Take a cue from the way BeOS does Tracker upgrades. I hit the ActiveUpdate button. It downloads Tracker and Deskbar. It warns me that it is installing, and Tracker reboots while I am still typing in Netpositive. THAT'S the way it should work.

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[be-fan]

To a certain extent that is true, but take a look at the rest of the consumer industry. A Prosche gives you so much damn power, and a Range Rover gives you so many more features (off-road, etc) yet they are as easy to use a Toyota Echo. Developers MUST think beyond the current levels of software. Paradigm shifts are hard, but nobody ever said life was easy.

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[be-fan]

I'm not having trouble with it. The minute you got to the second arrow, you screwed it. That's too much for a user who couldn't care less about the computer. You should hit start -> Update. The computer finds the FTP server, it checks which updates you need and it installs them. If you mess something up, hit start -> Fix, and the computer should scan itself and fix the problem. You plug together two computers, it should work. That's how it is supposed to be.

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[be-fan]

You still have to figure it out. You should be able to hit a button, and have it automaticaly update all software on the system. Like magic.

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[be-fan]

Jackass. I had no problem compiling the KDE beta on my Linux box. I still think it is too much trouble to go through. Let me ask you. What system are you running? When I'm not running BeOS or Win2K, I'm running a minumal slackware box with custom complied X, the NVIDIA drivers, ALSA compiled from source, a 2.4-test kernel, and KDE compiled from source. I edited all the config files by hand to set up NAT, my two network cards, ALSA, etc. I think I have a little idea of what the hell I'm doing!

Re:I bet Suse feels stupid.

[be-fan]

My dad isn't ignorant, he isn't and idiot. He could talk the hell out of you in politics or sociology any day. He doesn't want to use the computer, he just needs to get work done. Its a means to an end. Just like a cofee machine. Nobody wants to use the damn thing, they just want cofee. As such, it can NEVER be too easy.

Anyone else notice the breasts on the screenshot?

[sprag]

While checking out the 2.x screenshots I couldn't help but notice that the 3rd one down has a topless woman. I don't have any problems with it, but it does beg the "subliminal message" selling point: "if you like topless women, you'll love KDE!"

Re:KDE is nice

[update()]

Regarding speed -- try rebuilding Qt without exception handling. I got a huge performance improvement with no apparent drawbacks. In any case, KDE speed has improved significantly since the early betas, which may be be what you're judging it by.

irc.kde.org is part of OPN = more servers

[thefatz]

http://openprojects.nu/services/irc.html

There are plenty of irc servers on opn. irc.kde.org is one of them. irc.linux.com is another one. Many listed above. Visit #kde and #slashdot. The opn version of #slashdot is better then the slashnet version!

Why do you do it?

[Anne Marie]

First, I'd ask you to find even half a dozen feminists on slashdot.

Second, I ask why you even bother to write stuff like that, much post it with your +1 bonus. Does it contribute to the collective intelligence of slashdot? Does it make this a more inviting community for people already grossly unrepresented in slashdot's readership? Does it actually help anyone? Do you just find some kind of vicarious pleasure in being "politically incorrect", some sense of freedom in having complete unabashed disregard for the impact and consequences of your words on others?

I don't have the energy to be pissed off by people like you. You just make me sad.

Re:Why do you do it?

[be-fan]

If a person doesn't care about race/religion/sex/whatever and takes no special precautions to try to avoid offending someone, why is that a bad thing? Isn't that the whole definition of race/relgion/sex-blind? I couldn't care less what is P.C I treat everyone the same. When you take special care to try to avoid offending people, then you acknowledge that race/religion/sex plays a bigger part in your life than it should.

If somebody tells me it makes me uncomfortable, I don't joke. In general, I tend not to make jokes because people are uptight about these things. However, I never seem to mind Indian jokes and they just don't offend me. There are jackasses out there who make jokes to make other people feel bad. However why should I have to be careful for their sake?

That's the whole thing you miss! I shouldn't have to show respect. I should be able to treat women EXACTLY like I treat men.

Re:Very disappointed.

[GypC]

Sorry guys, but linux still isn't ready for the desktop.

It's been on my desktop for years... and I don't even use Gnome or KDE. Oh, you mean for the lusers' desktops. *Yawn* Guess not if you say so Chief.

"Free your mind and your ass will follow"

Re:KDE2 vs FVWM95

[GypC]

Ummm, guys, KDE is not a window manager. It's a Desktop Environment (like Gnome) that gives you things like desktop document icons, file associations, and drag-and-drop. It comes with a window manager (kwm), but you could use other KDE-compliant window managers instead.

Personally, I just use a standalone window manager (Sawfish) instead of Gnome or KDE, but get your facts straight.

"Free your mind and your ass will follow"

Re:Living with breasts

[RelliK]

Hrm, if the European developers are so equitable, where is the topless man?

Please tell me you do not really want to see a topless man...
___

Not about spite

[JohnZed]

This isn't just the continuation of some flamewar. The FSF believes that it would be a licensing violation for KDE developers to link and GNU-developed software to a QPL'ed version of Qt. They asked that anyone trying to link GPL'ed code with Qt get a special exception in writing from the copyleft holder (this came up with the apt libraries and Corel Linux, for instance). Now that Qt is dual-licensed, it might not be an issue. But the team is just trying to steer clear of legal difficulties, so we shouldn't mix that up with pure flaming.

Re:Not about spite

[drivers]

I don't understand. The FSF specifically said that it was ok to link in an FSF copyrighted GPL code into Qt programs, regardless of the past. It is other GPL developers (in theory only) who may have an argument with their code going into Qt code before it was GPL. What is the use of intentionally avoiding FSF code?

Mascots

[ichimunki]

No matter how much insanely, um, Kooler, the wizard and the dragon are than the Insane Pervert Paperclip... I still experience a sort of post-traumatic stress reaction whenever I see them in some sort of helpful dialog box.

Done...

[Anonymous Coward]

took about 15 minutes on my RS/6000. Mayve you should become more technically competent.

Re:Where've ya been?

[talesout]

Yep, it's awful easy to be 'the most stable' when it hasn't even made an appearance yet. And as far as I know it is barely out of the "let's see what we can do" stage of thought processes.

But flame away. Keep telling us how great .Net is! God knows it has to be good if it's from the great Redmond monolith.

Re:read *my* words, not his

[torpor]

I didn't use dictionary.com, I used a real dictionary. Thanks for the reference though.

Your obsession with the size of my penis can mean only one thing: penis envy.

Maybe you'll get lucky, and be born male next lifetime...

Re:Great! But does it work yet?

[11223]

If you suspect that, go get Open Motif (Connectiva is RPM, so try Metro Link's packages, which work great for me!). However, Flash for Linux is likely statically linked to Motif, because they don't expect everybody to have a copy of "Real OSF/Motif" (Lesstif just doesn't cut it when they use obscure portions of the API, as they might).

Re:Install

[/Caspian/]

Well, if your compiling kde from scratch I wrote a simple script to compile the whole ball-of-wax and install it for you. Don't email me with problems, but you can find it here

-Brandon_Z

hope for it to work

[josepha48]

I tried upgrading the rpms for kde2rc2 final and for some reason it tried to install support for 1.2 and support 2.0. Is this necessary? I hope not I hope it was just a bad rpm. I'll wiat a few days. I am sure that this is going to be a whole lot better, but right now I am using GNOME. If it turns out to be really sweet like the screenshots have shown it to be then I may actually consider switching. I need to do something as I had to remove kde 1.2 and kde 2rc2 and reinstall 1.2 and now my icons are all missing the images that went with them and I cannot get them back. arg!!

I guess the one big thing that bothers me most about kde 1.x is that the task bar or 'start' bar never seemed to get hidden. It apeared in the top left corner of my desktop and covered my icons. The other thing I was botherd by, but not as much was the fact that the icons did not take to 'random placement'. They were to ordered and inline. GNOME's does not do that nether does windows.

It will be nice though to have 2.0 if they use gtk themes as well, then all the kde and gnome apps can finally start to look like they belong on the same desktop.

My final wish is that the two adopted API's into each other. I.E. a user could write a program in QT/kde libs and then another user could add to it in GTK/GNOME libs. Or call functions from the differnet libs more easily. It would be nice if there were interfaces into QT/kdelibs from gtk/GNOME and visaversa. It may reduce some of the overlap in software.

I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!

Re:Install

[Patrix]

apt-get install kdebase that's even better than your helixgnome install ;)

Re:Have they fixed it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Were you using gcc 2.95.*, 2.96 or 2.97 on Alpha? This smells like the bug I've recently fixed where vtable thunks were not reloading $gp on Alpha. This should be fixed e.g. in gcc-2.96-60 rpms in Red Hat rawhide. egcs 1.1.2 and earlier were not using vtable thunks I think (and thus should not segfault). jakub@redhat.com (too lazy to create /. account right now)

KDE is a beauitful environment...

[Gendou]

I've been using KDE 2.0 since the 1.93 release and I am convinced that it will definitely give major headway into the desktop market.

KDE's features are so powerful, slick, and incredibly accessable. I've configured it such for some users that they couldn't tell the difference between KDE2 and the Windows UI (other than the fact that it's look *so* much better!) - which is important because it gives such a seamless transition between Windows and Linux.

KDE's internal model is also great. Unlike those *other* desktop environments, it's written in a language that supports objects directly - rather than using something hacked together. (Sorry for the jab - I love KDE! :-) I foresee it as being incredibly extensible and incredibly powerful for rapid application development (which is really good for commercial applications to take hold on the platform).

If you're using GNOME or haven't switched over from 1.1.2 yet, I *highly* recommend doing so. KDE2 is definitely worth it and a HUGE milestone for Linux on the desktop.

Props and thanks to the KDE2 teams! :-)

Weird filesystem traffic

[Some guy named Chris]

The last KDE beta had some weird filesystem traffic going on. My home directory lives on an nfs export on a central fileserver, and kde was trolling through the .kde subdirectory often enough to be generating about 500 nfs packets a second. It's an annoyance rather than a real critical issue, so I haven't bothered to do any more research to see what program is causing it, but I suspect kicker.

Has anyone noticed this behaviour, and does anyone know if it is fixed/reduced in the final version?

Also, the choice to not allow a running program in the root menu is annoying as well. I liked having a scrolly running in my root window telling me what song I was currently playing from my mp3 database. The new kdesktop thing in the betas had a maximum refresh rate of once every five minutes. Not often enough when an average song is 3.5 minutes long.

read *my* words, not his

[Anne Marie]

Be-fan criticized someone's use of "babe", saying it should be reserved for referring to women and not to software. If you disagree with his conception of "babe", then take it up with him, not me.

Your swift, misled, unthinking, and ad-hominem attacks against me, combined with a knee-jerk resort to dictionary.com and the inability to format your italics tags correctly, are consistent with possessing a small penis. In fact, the possibility isn't excluded one bit. Tut tut tut.

To the moderator...please reply as AC if necessary

[e_n_d_o]

Why would you moderate this comment down as flamebait? It's OBVIOUSLY a joke. If you don't find it funny, fine, but why in the hell would you moderate it down as flamebait? Only a complete moron would actually reply to a comment like this and say... Oh I think (GNOME | KDE) is better because of X, Y, or Z.

Please spend more of your moderator points burying this comment so you'll be less able to screw anyone else.

Announcement also here:

[Karma Sucks]

http://www.kde.org/announceme nts /announce-2.0.html

Re:KDE is nice

[pointwood]

Well I can certainly say, that from what I have testet, KDE2 is not a bit slower than (Helix) Gnome.

Furthermore I find KDE to be more polished" and "clean", but then again - this is also just my opinion.

How to build a FAST kde2

[darial]

Here's what I did to build a very speedy version of kde2. Package maintainers and tech heads take note!

first, I CVS co'd off the KDE_2_0_BRANCH. Check out qt-copy,kdesupport,kdelibs, and kdebase at a minimum. Do try out other packages, though...

In qt-copy, edit the /configs/your-architecture file to include the -fno-exceptions option in teh CXXFLAGS variable. Optionally, change the compiler to pg++/pgcc if you have them. If you're feeling lucky, kick the -O2 up to -O3 or even -O6. Then define -mpentiumpro (for portable objects) or -march=pentiumpro (for Pentiumpro+ only objects). Then configure and build the sucker.

Before building kde, define in the shell:

CXXFLAGS="-fno-exceptions [-O6][-march=pentiumpro | -mpentiumpro]"

and

CXX=pg++

CC=pgcc

if you have them. Do NOT define -fno-exceptions, as this may jack up khtml, and each module already correctly determines it's prefrence on this option. Then build as per normal instructions.

This gave me a %100 startup speed improvement (mostly due to turning of exceptions where not needed). It also gave me a noticable runtime speed boost and improved app 'feel'.

Major distro packagers, if you're out there, PLEASE DO THIS! It's unfair to give KDE a reputation for slowness just because you chose to use poor compiler options!

Re:Xinerama?

[JabberWokky]

A better solution will be dual head support for Matrox, but no one done have it yet :(

Arg! I should stop immediately, then!

I've been using Matrox's XFree86 4.0 drivers for months now. Oh, and they use Xinerama, as that is how XFree handles dual head issues like monitor placement and such.

--
Evan

irc party update

[Wickie]

Our release manager matthias just announced that every visitor can download a free copy of KDE2.

Will Compile For Food

[Delirium Tremens]

If somebody out there does not know what to do for the next two weeks, I suggest he tries to compile KDE 2.0 on AIX... I'll send him Pizza vouchers if he succeeds!

Living with breasts

[fm6]

I don't have any problems with it, but...

Obviously written by somebody in the Western Hemisphere, where we have a weird obsession/denial thing going when it comes to the human form. Remember that most of the KDE team is in Europe, a region that seems to have misplaced that particular cultural artifact. Lucky them.

__________

What an ugly, clunky GUI!

[Anonymous Coward]

I cant speak to how well or stable KDE will be for long term use -- but I cant stand the feel of it.

KDE violates most of the Human Interface Guidlines for good GUI design (which, of course, were written by Apple -- after years of painstaking study).

The icons are too slippery, the fonts look awful and are too small, the toolbar is idiotic. The window sliders have a mind of their own. Might as well be pulling the shortcut keys out of a hat -- they're that random. Dialog boxes are not straightforward and appear at seemingly random positions on the screen, unrelated to the parent app. Window sizing is not consistent. Overall, even within the KDE project, the behavior and appearance of apps isnt even consistent...much less with other non-KDE apps.

Awful, awful GUI. But better than nothing, I suppose. No one who's used a Macintosh for any length of time could stand it though.

I mean, gee whiz...my Grandma just wants to write an e-mail! Why do you have to make things a million times harder than they need to be!

Re:Install

[mcrandello]

I just downloaded all the packages into one directory and...

Anyway for RedHat and derivitaves try

rpm -Uvh q*
rpm -Uvh k*

And for Slackware, after I aliened the rpms for the release Candidate 2 packages

upgradepkg *.tgz

Couldn't be simpler. Please note that the rpm command will upgrade existing KDE packages. Please consult your documentation (man rpm) for further details.

Fulfillment!

[fm6]

I often wonder if anybody reads my posts. But this this time I got moderated up and down. Five times yet! I find this very fulfilling!

__________

Re:I bet they dont.

[be-fan]

KDE 2 Might have been released later than they said look at the 2.4 kernel and other projects.
Theres more than one component in a distribution do you wait for the new gnome, the new apache, the new mozilla...
>>>>>>
For a desktop, Apache is one thing, the main DE is another. If you're going to release a desktop OS, wait for the latest XFree, the latest kernel, and the latest DE. If you're releasing a server, use a mature kernel, and wait for a couple of point releases of Apache.

Regards the making computers easy to use, yes its true windows isn't easy it has GUIs for everything but you still need to know what to but in the each
configuration box. BUT, there is a big difference between the computer and the car, the car does one thing, no latest feature upgrades and so on.
>>>>>>>>>
No there is not. That's the kind of thinking that gets you in trouble. Who says computers have to do many different things? Most people use their computers for one set of tasks anyway, right? The computer should mold itself to fit those tasks. Its high talk, but I'm not looking for YADE (Yet Another DE) here, I'm looking for a user-interface revolution.

The car is
much simpler. The car is one kind of hardware, the computer can have thousands of different options for hardware, just look at all the video cards, sound
cards, network cards, and so on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ummm, last time I checked, there are more types of tires than graphics cards. Cars are made up of thousands of different, interchangable parts. Sure computer parts aren't interchangable, but maybe they SHOULD be?

We need to move towards the target you talk about and this is getting there for most software people use.
>>>>>
Uh, no. Sorry. But you still get the consolation prize. Take, for example, CD burning. On a dedicated copier, you plug in a disc, and hit copy. Then take a look at Adaptec's software. You've got dozens of different options. Multi-mode, Disc at once, image types, speed, etc. That is simply unacceptable for consumer level software. To make a disc, all I should have to do is put in a CD, and drag files into it (which DirectCD does, but it adds it's own set of problems) Some software makers do the Beginner/Advanced interface scheme. Wrong again. The software should grow as the user grows. Its a dumb idea to hem an intermedia user into a beginner interface, or drop them into an advanced one.

Waited so long...

[RPoet]

Two years I've waited for KDE 2.0. And when it's finally released, it happens to be my birthday as well :) Wohooo! :)
--

Re:Hard to install ... ?

[be-fan]

Or I could download nt4sp6a.exe, double click it, and have a totally updated system! You people think too much inside the box. I have no problem compiling KDE from scratch and installing it on my Slackware box (though it takes too damn long and I should only have to give one set of make commands) but for those who really don't want to use computers, 10 packages is silly. Hell, downloading an *exe is silly. It should be one click to upgrade.

It will nuke KDE 1.x

[roystgnr]

Or at least, that's the impression I get. The beta RPMs that bero@redhat.com was putting together were set up to install alongside KDE 1, but I gather the attitude for the release candidates and final is "why would you want to have both installed at the same time?"

That's not a horrible policy, I guess, but it seems unnecessary. One of the things I always liked about Linux was the ability to have, say, libc5 and glibc, or ncurses 3,4, and 5, all installed at the same time to support old binaries.

Re:It will nuke KDE 1.x

[bero-rh]

Yes, it will - the reason is that it's supposed to be compatible with the future, and therefore ugly semi-FHS compliant locations like /usr/lib/kde2 should be avoided.

I'll be pushing out a kde1-compat package (so people can continue to run KDE 1.x apps) later today.

Have they fixed it?

[pantherace]

There were some problems on Alphas, and after a friend with the help of someone who is a c++ wizard on alphas, got it to compile, kmail would crash. There were some other things, and have they been fixed. Some of the problems existed on other 64-bit computers too.

Alright, perhaps that was a little offtopic, but when you see all this great stuff, and can't use it because of $%#$^@ 32-bit only users, it makes you a little mad.

Re:Great! But does it work yet?

[talonyx]

I'm in some preview version release, the latest Debian had on hand when i installed linux abotu three hours ago because i was bored, and Flash works great...

Re:Anyone else notice the breasts on the screensho

[gnugnugnu]

Thats Gail Porter, a diminutive and curvey Scottish women and former childrens saturday morning tv presenter whos ass was projected onto the English Houses of Parliament by a well known mens magazine. (most of the mens/lads mag's have American counterparts and im sure google can find "Gail Porter"if you want to look it).

I recognise those photos, and she is in fact wearing clothes, albeit rather skimpy tranparent ones. (You have to look really closely, be careful you dont go blind :) )