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AMD's Secrets Revealed
Techman writes "Three days ago AnandTech brought you a glimpse of Intel's plans for 2001. Now they're following up the coverage with AMD's roadmap for the next year and on into 2002. Does AMD have what it takes to continue their incredible winning streak, or will AMD return to the state they were in before their recent success?"
Trust me, if you wanna play Quake3 at 1024 using a 2MB S3 Virge you'll need more than 650 Mhz.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
AMD have an impressive roadmap on paper. But then anyone can make anything look good on paper (Especially .coms!), so i'm not going to simply say "Good oh, good old AMD thrashing Intel! Yay!"
AMD have always had poor luck with their own processor designs, and seem to stuck following in the footsteps of Intel when it comes to inovation. They've created some compitition in the short term with their cheaper CPU's, sure, but thats only been in the last year or so.
The future is a little more murky. Their x86-64 architecture isn't compatible with Intels IA-64 architecture. Aside from the fact that the x86 instruction set is crap anyway, Microsoft have no plans to support x86-64, instead choosing their long standing partnership with Intel and focusing on the IA-64.
Now, i know that there are people working on Linux, *BSD ports to x86-64 etc. but that is not going to carry AMD into the next decade by any margin. Without industry standards and support for their architecture, they are going to die, pure and simple. We all know how poor Microsoft are at supporting anything other than Intel as well, so don't hold your breath for them (And others) to support two diferent systems.
At the moment, it's AMD 1, Intel 0. But thats going to change pretty quickly, and thats a fact.
T. Lee
Don't you see where this is a really good thing?
Intel is going to develop all of these instructions and then AMD can just implement them in one of their future chipsets.
They arent "betting" a whole lot on these instructions either, its just something for an edge, even a small one which can mean everything in a highly competative world
Jeremy
You're bitching about a ~$47 for 600Mhz cpu not being cheap enough when you're using SCSI for your disk subsystem? Are you nuts? ;-)
With regard to the MB price difference, I can sort of see your point but the delta only looks to be 20-30 dollars... (I'm looking at www.pricewatch.com for general prices and www.essencom.com (<--been a satisfied customer there several times) for specifics.).
(Oh, sorry, the retail box with fan & heatsink Duron at 650Mhz from essencom is a whopping $75... heh heh On pricewatch the lowest price is 47 for a back-o-the-truck-special duron 600)
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News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Could be issue latency to account for the frequency domain changes. They may have to throw in an extra clock every N clocks to keep the PLLs happy.
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https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Hmmrmm... am I the only one that noticed low end systems supporting AMD processors are expected to give up on AGP in favor of UMA architechtures?
This will be a great thing for cheap systems, if they can get the bandwidth there. Of course, it probably means we'll be stuck with the video solution that is provided with the chipset (like the blasted CRM graphics on my 5-year old UMA-architechture O2), but it still will be interseting to see how this unfolds.
I haven't looked at a processor roadmap for a while (heck, since Intel announced Celerons with cache!)... does anyone know if Intel is planning the same core architechture move? I recognize that the i740 graphics and successors were a step in this direction, but are there plans for the future?
-Chris
...More Powerful than Otto Preminger...
It does run x86 code, but is designed for IA-64 (NOT X86). Curiously, most of the /. crowd is bashing Intel for this because it won't run x86 code as fast as a Pentium 4. The Hammer series from AMD is a 64bit version of x86, with all the problems that traditional x86 chips have. It may work out in the short term, but I would much have a 3rd generation IA-64 bit chip than a 3rd generation Hammer chip.
I just pray that whithin 10 years Intel releases an IA-64 based chip that is NOT backwards compatible. For God's sake, it's time to cut the cord...
Dan
we'll see what happens after SUN buys them. I can easily imagine SUN using the SledgeHammer in their servers as opposed to US III. Solaris will run on x86-64 before it runs on ia-64.
One of the reasons why I think that SUN will buy AMD is because in order to be successful at making processors, you have to sell lots to pay for development, production, new fabs and so on. So how long will SUN keep making their own processors (ps: I know that TI fabs their CPUs but they still develop them)? It would make sense for SUN to acquire AMD because they seem destined to introduce a cheap and good workstation that sells lots. And since the Sledgehammer will have the server goodies (good bus, scallability, tons of cache, etc), it will happily fit in a server line. They have already stated that Solaris will be ported to x86-64.
Intel and AMD will produce lots of fast processors for cheap. SUN knows that eventually people will see that a x86-64 or ia-64 trounces the US-III with no problem. They will need real performance and a good price. Intel and AMD don't make toys like they used to (except in terms of FP which is due to the x87 isa and not the hardware, and which will be replaced in both ia-64 and x86-64). The best net profits come from hardware support anyway and not development + sales.
Sorry if what I said was a bit incoherent, there is a lot on my mind at the moment. But I do think that before next summer, SUN will have bought AMD because of what I said and more. The only two unknown variables that I can think of right now are MAJc and SUN's pride towards using the Alpha bus, which I was told but can not say whether or not it's true, which is somewhat not as good as SUN's own.
Chipsets have been capable of doing that for years.
For example: 100 x 4.5 = 450MHz
It's not like there isn't a lack of non-x86 processors out there. If a non-x86 processor was going to kill x86, why wasn't it the Alpha/PowerPC/MIPS?
This is why I think Intel has just sunk billions into what will become Just Another Chip, the non-x86 Itanium. It will join the Alpha, MIPS, Power, Sparc, and others in a crowded server-chip market.
AMD, on the other hand, is going to make a fortune on the x86-64 platform, dominating the NT-or-Linux server market running a mix of x86-32 and x86-64 software. Intel will desperately adapt the Pentium V to handle AMD's 64-bit extensions, and probably run afoul of a judiciously-placed AMD patent. AMD will wind up getting royalties on every Pentium V, and eventually overthrow Intel as the #1 chipmaker.
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
Give it a rest. Don't be such a heavy. This is a forum for information exchange. We can't all be experts in every branch of comp sci.
BTW you missed on the interpretation of developer: the author wasn't referring to software developers, but chip developers/manufacturers.
So take your own advice and someone please mod this inappropriate rant down.
To be honest, I'm not a Troll, just in a bad mood today...besides, quite a lot of my recent attempts at being funny got moderated as being interesting or informative for one reason or another. And I'm not stupid, just awake for a very long time...
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Penguin Computing already sells AMD Linux boxes. If VA doesn't want to sell you the box you want, Penguin will. They're fast, helpful and ship with a shitload of extras - like a mountain of docs. I highly recommend them.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
I think AMD recent success is dues mostly to Intel's woes. One comment I saw recently (can't remember by who) said that "Intel just keeps hitting parked cars." Quite apt really. It's time Intel spent more time developing chips that people want, rather than pushing stuff that people don't want (e.g. Rambus). I for one am pleased that AMD are currently doing well.
return 0; }
Cheap, tight, rubish laddie, we transcend even our dreadful rep. You should see my system, cost me about £250($400 I think), and that includes upgrading the mobo once and the CPU twice. (K62-500, 128Mb PC100, 5Gb HDD (3+2), SB128 PCI, Ext v90 Modem, Dual-Head (8Mb RagePro PCI + 32Mb Geforce2 Mx + a spare monitor I don't know what to do with), Dual Boots win98 and Mandrake 7.1)
Trust The Computer, The Computer is your friend.
I see where I am unclear, when I say CAD I mean having the computer come up with the logic and the circuitry, I know they use computers to actually design but its humans doing the design, not a program.
They already did. Doesn't the 760 chipset support DDR and RDRAM???
Space Cadet
hahah, mod this up! If you read the article you'll get it
Okay, okay, the thing is I do a lot of CD burning so transfer from the harddrive to the cd writer is the most important step, not raw processing power. I got a scsi drive basically free so instead of spending the extra 70+ whatever dollars on duron, I went celeron and put those 70 bucks into a controller. That's all.
Its the strong dollar vs. the euro. Durons are manufactured in Dresden, Germany. Not only are they a great value in the U.S. when compared to the celeron, but even more so in Europe. In an AMD system purchased in Europe almost every part needed can be purchased from a company based outside the U.S. (I'm thinking Taiwan here), ignoring the strong dollar problem. In an Intel based system, you've always got that damnable processor priced on the greenback :)
Hey, don't knock Olds...back in the day, they developed most of the new stuff (automatic transmissions, front-wheel drive, etc.) that eventually appeared in other GM divisions' products. Especially in the era of the Rocket V8s, Olds engines were a Good Thing (TM) to have, used to some extent by everybody but Chevy (an Olds engine would've been too expensive to put in a Chevy, but Pontiac, Buick, and Cadillac used a few).
If I had to compare processors to cars, the P4 would be a Cimarron (a J-car from Cadillac is still a J-car) and the Athlon would be more like a 442 (lots of power for a not-unreasonable price). :-)
Don't knock "your father's Oldsmobile." :-) (Hell, mine isn't all that different from his...a '77 vs. his '73.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Didn't the quakes take out memory warehouses, and not chipset fabs?
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Where can the word be found, where can the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence.
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
I wonder when semi companies will have to switch to alternate materials such as GaAs for chip manufacturing, and I wonder what the cost impact will be. Also, how about the guys making boards, will they eventually have to switch to alternate materials to reduce signal coupling, etc?
Intel keeps constantly betting on extra SIMD instructions like SSE, but must've realized already that only a small niche of developers is actually going to support them if not directly payed to optimize their software.
a). Adding SSE2 was directly responsible for the 79% speedup of P4's SPECfp score over P3/Athlon. The instructions are superior to the X87 instructions which the other ones use. This is "innovation"
b). AMD is copying SSE2 on the Sledgehammer project.
A Celeron system is MUCH cheaper than a Duron system, because an integrated chipset is available for it. AMD didn't even have an integrated chipset on their ROADMAP until a few months ago. So, Intel can afford to charge more for the CPU and still have the lower system price. This is a massive competitive advantage for Intel. Indeed, AMD's share of the sub-$1000 market has deflated from 50% to 5% in the last year.
If it wasn't for games, they'd just use Macs, DUH! Go into any major magazine company or such, and see if you can find a PC that is used for design/layout. I bet that the percentage is less than 20%, and that's playing it safe.
-I had a good sig. Then it died so I replaced it with this one.
If AMD's run so much hotter, they should just condone the use of alternatives to air cooling. That would help promote more mainstream acceptance, and make heat just a little bit less of an issue. . .
I have just bought my second Nissan 300zx Turbo (sigh) - used one ...
I care less about a name, so I won't pay premium for BMW if some other company comes up with equally good product for less.
Returning to the topic of AMD - don't you think that one of the reasons for AMD not being used in the corporate environment is the corporate obsession with DELL, the only Intel-only big PC manufacturer?
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
Um maybe I'm mad but I was under the impresion that Durons were manufactured exclusively in Austin on Aluminium. Dresden only runs at 50% capacity right now and produces T-birds on Copper. If anyone knows better and can tell me where to get Dresden Durons I'd be a very happy man. Durons clock higher then equivalent T-birds due to having more voltage overhead to play with and I'm sure a Duron with copper interconnects would clock higher still. As to why Durons sell better here (I'm in Scotland), search me. Could be that most folks here bought celerons to OC them and Duron is just so much better for that.
Trust The Computer, The Computer is your friend.
Hey, that seems to work for Microsoft, and they are the biggest software company on the planet.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
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Perhaps that's true, but all the motherboard + CPU combos in the range you mention had integrated sound and video, which I try to shy away from because 1) they're frequently incompatible with linux, and 2) it's much more difficult to repair, replace, or upgrade those integrated components.
Why is it unfortunate? It would be a huge error to waste billions of lines of code written for x86 just in order to get some theoretical improvement in speed.
And in any case if you really need serious performance why not get an Alpha? Few people do actual computations and for most it is really unimportant whether the architecture is x86 or not.
1 P4 1.5Ghz is faster than 1 1.2 Ghz Palomino. Fortunately, AMD can call in the infantry and add a second Athlon...
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
The biggest problem with the P4 is its extremely long pipeline (I won't mention the girly-man FPU, 'cause SSE2 may fix that). This makes it unsuitable for any application that has hard-to-predict branches. What happens is that the P4's branch predictor can't work so well, and coupled with the immense penalty for a branch mispredict, the P4 dies horribly. This problem is not just related to Word, etc. Compiles take much longer on the P4 compared to PIII, Athlon. And, for all you gamers out there, AI just kills the P4 (those pesky branches again). With modern games having ever more complex AI's, this will be a significant problem. (And for all who point to the P4's Q3 numbers, take a look at the review on Ace's Hardware.) If Athlon continues to scale, and AMD brings Clawhammer out on time, Intel will be in trouble.
Written by a single drunk monkey in 30 minutes with a copy of MS Word 2000.
How can they claim that both the 200 and 266MHz FSB CPUs are the same speed? That simply violates the FSB x multiplier rule (1100 / 266 = 4.135338345865; 1200 / 266 = 4.511278195489). I seriously don't expect a chipset to be able to set its multiplier to a non-integer setting.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Intel keeps constantly betting on extra SIMD instructions like SSE, but must've realized already that only a small niche of developers is actually going to support them if not directly payed to optimize their software.
I ask myself: why bother? Don't they see that playing their cards on such proprietary instructions is a very bad thing?
I remember that not a lot of people complained when Intel decided to introduce Slot1, and I still don't know why. It looked perfectly clear that Slot1 wasn't necessary at that time and Intel was doing it to screw AMD and Cyrix over. (Only Intel's processors would be Slot1, and you wouldn't be able to use both on the same motherboard).
It didn't work quite like they expected, even with their quite large market share. At this moment the situation's even worse, and I can't see a very good future to the ones who decide to fragment the market like this.
Not only this is bad for Intel, it's bad for us (developers AND consumers) as well. AMD also occasionally releases new instructions, even less successful than Intel's.
I, as a developer, wouldn't want to write my software 3 different times to make them compatible with (a) old MMX-only machines; (b) AMD's processors and (c) Intel's processors.
People in general, as consumers, wouldn't get software that's optimized for anything because developers aren't _willing_ to optimize their stuff.
The bottomline: everyone loses.
Note that I don't blame Intel for this practice. The new instructions are good for marketing and they NEED to get out because they are intelligent solutions to coding problems. AMD thinks the same way. The problem is we need compatibility.
Flavio
Cooling can be silent it just takes some effort. And the heat isn't due to bad design, it is due to the fact that above-zero conductors tend to have resistance. That is if it is a design flaw, it is inherent in everything eletrical.
I need a roadmap to navigate this article.
IA-64, Intel's 64-bit architecture is not based on x86/IA-32. Starting with the Itanium and going to McKinley. Supposed to be for servers, but so was every other chip. I would guess in a few years we will be seeing quite a few IA-64 desktops....hopefully.
okay so they didnt really steal it, aquired it then.
The AMD K7 whomps the PIII and in some instances, the P4, while being cheaper.
The K7 to my knowledge doesn't have a serial number on it that other people can happily query for.
Whereas it's possible for the P4 to be faster at new software compiled and built with new extensions, etc. The Athlon is faster at what's running now and appears to be a better PIII than the PIII.
SMP + Slightly upped MHZ = sweet right now.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
There's also the issue of Rambus, inc's shadily-aquired patent on computer memory. They're suing everyone who makes DDR or DDR chipsets for royalty fees, which is probably putting a crimp in its deployment.
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Where can the word be found, where can the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence.
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
Resorting to the worn-out automobile line of analogies, it looks to me like AMD needs to spin off a differently named company to sell the "quality" line of (really AMD) processors. Pull an "Acura" in other words.
It's because the Duron isn't that much cheaper than a Thunderbird* of equal frequency in North America. At least two people I know decided to just shell out the extra $15-20 for a Thunderbird* soon after they came out. The price gap is probably even less now for the slower chips.
* Or "Athlon with enhanced cache", but personally I think that's a long-winded and silly name.
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Where can the word be found, where can the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence.
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
It all depends on how soon Intel will release a DDR chipset, and whether it resembles the stability of the 440BX or the follies of the 820. If Intel can make a nice clean DDR chipset compliant with the DDR standards (as they have promised to do), then Intel could have the fastest desktop x86 setup out there. Of course, they already do, but cost is prohibitive and the demon Rambus has not yet been dispatched to the pits of hell. A price drop and a DDR chipset for the P4 could very well be the tolling bell for the Athlon.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
AMD's site, as well as Anand has been saying that AMD re-released the new Athlons (1, 1.1, and 1.2 ghz) with the new 266Mhz front side bus. My question is, where are they? I'd like to pick one up, but I have no clue where to get a hold of one...not even Pricewatch has any info.
El riesgo vive siempre!
Maybe the future will be different but so far AMD has failed to create its own designs.
AMD has a good plan, take other companies great designs and use them as their own. It works well if you have designs to buy, but its hard creating a company when you dont have the ability to innovate. They got the Athlon design from some small company that they purchased, the name escapes me.
The p4 will come out in newer revs with faster clockspeeds, DDR support, .13u technology, and copper interconnects and when it does it will kick ass, the NetBurst technology will really help when it gets up to 2Ghz speeds. On the lowpower market we have the low power p3 and on the server market we have the Itanium that will become widely accepted. AMD looks like its in a good position now, but it should go down dramatically in the future years.
jbischof
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The article mentions that AMD Duron isn't selling that well in North America, whereas in Europe the sales are "incredible". Why is that?
What difference would it make if AMD or Intel introduced a totally new processor (non-x86 compatable) or if you just had a look around at what other options are already available today?
The PowerPC is very nice processor. IIRC, IBM has released open "PC like" MB designs based on the PowerPC - with an invitation for anyone to manufacture them. Any takers so far?
Unfortunately, giving up on x86 binary compatability is still considered to big a risk for PC/MB producers. Even us open source OS users recognize that there will be that occasional binary driver or commercial software that we need to run and it's only available for x86.
Ever see NetBSD on a G4 cube? I did at Comdex/LBE and it's nice, reportedly much faster than equivalent Pentiums but expensive...
Better stuff is already out there, but it's the old cliche of BetaMax vs. VHS - the product with mass market appeal will continue to reign.
--Aaron Greenberg
If only they tested the damn second serial port on the new 2130's...
I had to use one of those motherboard serial cables that waste a slot (quite valuable in a 2U). I found one in a box 'o' cables and it worked. Then we told VA (we asked for two serials in the first place) and they sent us a box of them, all different. None of them worked. I can get the winmodem in my notebook working, but not a simple external USR 28800?
Tested, huh?
Maybe I'm angry because my thumb is still a little scarred from removing a hard drive from one a couple of weeks ago. Ouch.
When will VA Linux start selling AMD based systems???
What if you don't play Quake? You neglect the fact that media apps in consumer space are becoming more and more popular. Low-end 3D renders, video editors, web-media apps will all become popular soon due to the content revolution. Guess what a GeForce2 will do for Premiere? Nothing! For all of the apps mentioned, a fast CPU is absolutely critical. Also, you forget that CPUs have to keep up with the bloat of the OSs. If it weren't for the KDEs, Xs, GNOMEs, Win2Ks, and Office 2000s in the world, much fewer people would need faster CPUs. Win95 killed my 486, and Win2K and Linux killed my PII300. It is impossible for people to resist buying faster CPUs given the fact that the entire software industry is against them.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
The author seems to be of the opinion that Intel is somehow in the advantage here, but as long as the P4 doesn't carry SMP, the Palomina should come out victoriously on this one. Seems the P4 will be covered with horseshit.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
From the fortune program that came with my Linux distro (red-hat).
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Maybe Motorola and AMD need to get together and share some technology. Let's hope that means that Athlons will be cooler and PowerPCs will move beyond 500 Mhz. But see how the universe loves a perverse outcome and how people are ussualy more hard headed about keeping their bad decissions we will probably get an Athlon that cant get beyond 500 Mhz and a PowerPC chip that can cook the thanksgiving turkey in ten minutes flat.
Granted, but IMHO 90% of desktops with 1.2Ghz chips in them sold next year, will be used for 2 things..
Quake and Email..
Followed by..
StarOffice/MSOffice
Napster/Gnutella (hopefully)/ICQ/AIM/etc
None of which need massive numbercrushing power..
Followed by a small black dot on the horizon which is all the applications combined that need more than 650Mhz!
Spend your dimes on RAM/HD/NERF toys..
Official GOD FAQ.
Well, yeah... but, don't you think that might be overkill?
One Can Never Own Enough Musical Instruments...
They're extremely useful for 3D graphics and signal processing and can speed those up quite a bit. I'd still rather see some dedicated signal processors on add-on cards, but that would cause a whole lot of new bus traffic.
Anyway all those software synthesizers and cool multimedia stuff can really benefit from floating point SIMD, since it can basically speed up common floating point operations by 200-300%. e.g. digital filters usually mostly use multiply and add and that's what SIMD speeds up. SSE2 seems to do to double floats the same that SSE did to single floats.
However the question I have is... is either company looking into and/or developing something not based on x86 architecture?
Isn't there going to be some point where the developers have to sit back and realize that they've done all they can with it?
I realize that this will potentially cause huge problems both in hardware and software but I think both companies would be doing themselves a favor to start planning for that day now.
I think those bus speeds tend to be irrational so it is 266.666.... And the 0.5-multiplier which has been available for ages is definitely a
non-integer number
So that makes it all clear for 1.2GHz tb, but 1100MHz and one gig parts are still strange, as the 1.1GHz would need 0.125 step... well, maybe the new chipset does support those as well.
First, I'll take your capitalized "so" as sarcasm and reply...why yes, yes it is faster...by 100MHz. That would be 100 Million cycles a second. That is a lot. lets see that would be 1/9th or about 11.1%. Now lets see when you had a 66MHz cpu and your buddy had a 166MHz cpu you were completely blown away. Sure it's a different ratio, but it is still a sizeable step. It's not like they have produced a 933MHz cpu and claimed it made a difference.
Second, if you're building a "low end" processor why the hell are you throwing SCSI at it? If it's low end SCSI doesn't/shouldn't even cross your mind.
Where the heck were you checking prices? At pricewatch it took me 10 seconds to see that the cheapest "Motherboard w/CPU+Fan Celeron 400" is $149, while "Motherboard w/CPU+Fan Duron 600" starts at $129.
I love going down to the elementary school, watching all the kids jump and shout, but they dont know I'm using blanks.
Man go back to bed and get a little sleep. Star Wars, created by George Lucas first came out in 1978. Battlestar Galactica didn't appear until the like the 1990's and then it was more like a rip off of Star Trek.
If it wasnt for Q1/Q2/Q3 does anyone really think these chips would be getting so fast. For the real world, if you want to process 2X as many email, Buy 2 computers! Then you have double redundency as well... Thats why Sun boxen are still the choice for many serious apps, despite having only 450, or 650 Mhz chips... And i read somewhere that the ENTIRE Space station formely known as the ISS runs on a handfull of 386SX chips!
Official GOD FAQ.
Are you sure you wouldn't want a million Exanode beowulf cluster of 9.99 x 10^(100 x 10^(100 x 10^99999) Exahertz Processors, 2 x 10^1000000 way SMP? That would be a lot better, IMHO.
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
The links to tech documents are fake. I can't see any 92% failure rate; the document doesn't exist. Read the links before moderating up some moronic troll.
If you are modding me down because you disagree with me, use the "Flamebait" category, not the "Troll" one.
Personally, I am a U.S. citizen, and all I really want is either a sedan or a sporty hatchback, but they must have a stickshift. I like pickups and vans too, but there are some places where you wouldn't dare take them.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
the future, however, looks dicey at best. right now, the P4 isn't hands-down outperforming the Athlon or the P3 .. but once the SSE2 instructions work themselves into software, this CPU will BURY the Athlon, Palomino, and whatever else AMD throws at it ... and you better believe this thing will ramp like a champ. Tom already has his 1.5 Ghz part running at 1.7Ghz. this is an AMD fan saying this.
AMD is pursuing the right goals by working almost exlusively to decrease the power consumption of their current core. thet should be able to milk significantly higher clock speeds and more stability out of it. i worry though, because they've all but handed the high-end market back to Intel, unless they get SSE2 support on to the Palomino.
pezpunk
Internet killed the video star,
i could live a little longer in this prison
What I think's impressive is that they're actually meeting their demand. That was always AMD's biggest problem (besides the fact that every product was a direct Intel knockoff ;) - they could never turn out enough chips. Seems like they finally turned that around with the Athlon.
However, the article did raise at least one important point - for a "low end" processor, the duron's just not cheap enough! I'm assembling my own computer right now, and I chose to go with a celeron because the Duron chips and compatible motherboards were just more, and I preferred to put the extra money into some things that really enhance performance for me, like a SCSI card and more RAM.
Of course, as soon as DDR is budget priced, I see myself putting together a different system altogether...
Naturally, this applies somewhat differently to the /. kind of crowd. It is possible for someone to build their own box that has an Athlon chip in it that is still a quality machine. I just built my own machine and it has an Athlon 800 chip in it and a real 3Com NIC and a video card with it's own RAM. This however isn't the usual case when you buy a preassembled AMD machine. These are often the budget models that have a winmodem, shared video RAM and all manner of other shortcuts. This reflects badly on AMD and when combined with their lack of support for dual processors rules them out in the high end mass market.
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I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
If you do the maths you'll see that petahertz processors aren't that far away - you certainly won't need to freeze yourself whilst waiting for them.
1 petahertz = 1,000,000 gigahertz
1,000,000 = 20 doublings (2^20)
Assume speed doubling every 18 months
1.5 years * 20 doublings = 30 years
There are loads of other assumptions in there about the nature of computing, even that we'll stick to computers with clocks, but it's a back-of-the-envelope figure at least.
Do the maths for "several hundred years" yourself!
No, Windows 2150 will need double these specs to even run!
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I've read through this article noticing the number of posts bashing AMD for a past lack of innovation. However, right now (with Pentium III vs. Athlon), AMD has a pretty decent leg up on the competition. I think everyone's ignoring what Intel's biggest problem is right now -- itself.
In the name of catching up to AMD on raw speed, Intel released and then pulled back their 1.13GHz processor. It shipped on a special motherboard, with a special heatsink and special microcode. To all those people I talked to who worked at Intel or saw one of these, it was unstable as hell.
In addition to this, the Pentium IV is getting pushed back repeatedly. Has anyone noticed that two new TV commercials have appeared for the Pentium III? I keep wondering why the hell they're promoting it so much, and I think the answer is pretty obvious: the Pentium IV is not going to be a part marketable to consumers for a while because of the price, and we will not see systems based on it before Christmas.
But what about the Celeron? Well, with prices that aren't competing well with the Durons (although a Duron motherboard will set you back more) and the fact that they are just now introducing the 100MHz FSB Celeron chips, they've practically killed Celeron from lack of attention.
According to someone I've heard from at Intel, some of the problems of the Pentium IV weren't worked out before final silicon, and it sometimes falls back on slower methods to get things done.
Don't get me wrong, AMD still has problems. They're still working on a laptop chip that won't have the heat and power issues of the Athlon (the transmeta partnership should fix that), they've made some bad decisions with SMP (only Tyan was given the go-ahead to make a SMP motherboard with the 750 chipset and never did... that mistake won't be made again). But at least they haven't tied themselves to RDRAM or pushed anything out with obvious flaws lately.
I think that's what they have done to a certian extent. When they launched the Athlon they wisely decided not to refer to it as K7. Not only did they change the name associated with their CPU but it was also the fastest chip on the market when launched. Now a little over a year later they've managed to look less like a Geo ("It'll get you there and back, but don't expect too much.") into more of a Chevorlet ("Quality, full featured automobile at a fair price."). Now with their recent development of dual processor capable motherboards they may be approaching something on the lines of a Pontiac ("Good performance, quality machine, low cost."). While Intel is starting to look more and more like an Oldsmobile ("A nice comfortable car for fuddy-duddies.")
My apologies to those of you who aren't from the US. I realize that these auto brands aren't exported very often and you might not be all that familiar with them. Also, I apologize for the slogans, it should be quite clear why I am in computer programming rather than advertising.
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I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
The only thing that really counts, in the end, is what is your overall performance, and what do you have to pay to get that performance.
Reviews on anandtech, tom's hardware, and hardocp all indicate that the 1.5 GHZ P4 is essentially equivalent to a 1.0-1.2 GHZ Athlon. A 1GHZ Athlon can be had for under $300 : a 1.5 GHZ P4 is running at a touch over $1000.
The socket 423 that the P4 fits in is going out by early next year: OTOH, there don't appear to be any plans to phase out socket A any time soon. This leads me to think that the Athlon will be more upgradeable.
At the very least, you can start with a Duron now and get an Athlon later- the same cannot be said for the celeron/p4 scenario.
RDRAM is more expensive than SDRAM and has marginal performance benefit. DDR-SDRAM will reduce this benefit to nothing in real world tasks.
For those of you that buy on brand, buy Intel: if you buy based on real numbers, buy AMD.
~mindlace
Second is the 64 bit stuff. x86-64 is one of the lamest ideas to come out of a high tech company since boo.com, and everyone who so much as looks at the name knows it. The only way it could go anywhere is if the competition was, what, several years late, having difficulty ramping to high clock speeds, requiring major new compiler technology, and probably many more things as well. Since they've met the first few requirements, I'll hold off on judgement.
They are counting on Intel to screw up. From the past, this may work. It's not really a good thing to count on. Innovation often fails too, but I hope they don't just go into a holding pattern with the Athlon. That was a big win for them; to do well they have to follow it up with others now.
If you are modding me down because you disagree with me, use the "Flamebait" category, not the "Troll" one.
One Can Never Own Enough Musical Instruments...
The truth is, Intel was one of VA's original financial backers, and Intel is still DEEP into VA's pockets. They have an "Intel Deal" and that's about all there is to it.
VA will tell you, "there's more to it than that, you have to realize that we make sure EVERY componant on a motherboard and system is FULLY functional in Linux before we aprove it for use. We have done a lot of software engineering for Intel systems, and it will take a lot of time to do it for AMD systems." But, that's bullshit. With all of VA's staff and resources, and the whole open source community porting to every bit of hardware under the sun, VA can't do an AMD system... Yea, ok... whatever...