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Iridium Satellite Breaks Up Over Arctic
Julius X writes: "Early Wednesday morning, the first Iridium satellite to reenter the atmposphere broke up over the Arctic Ocean at 9:44 GMT. The satellite had failed just two months after its launch in September 1998, and had been tumbling out of control ever since. The report here on Space.com provides more detail, and says that another satellite is due to come down in the next three weeks or so."
ok those things are small enought to burn in the atmosphere but still we could hear kids say "hey ma, it's raining satellites". now i think this sounds funny but my taste of humor is rather awkward anyway.
ound the message used repetitively over and over still nothing grows silen
Read the article again... This is not part of the 'controlled burn' of all the satellites that was originally planned before the recent takeover, this is a single satellite that failed ages ago and was always doomed to crash... Nick...
penguins live in the Antarctic, and this was the Arctic. North vs South pole.
now if you read carefully it says of "anyone" being hurt, that means there is 1 in 10000 chance of it hitting some random escimo thats in the wrong place at the wrong time. not a 1 in 10000 chance for each of us to get hit
A blog about stuff.
Chapter 11 doesn't really permit the kind of activity you're describing, by the way. Nearly all Chapter 11 plans have to be approved by the debtors (and if they're not, the judge has to decide that it's an exceptionally fair plan, and the debtors are simply being malicious in refusing to approve), and if they don't approve (and the courts don't force it), then you'll end up under Chapter 7 instead. Chapter 7 is total liquidation. Actually, about 90% of Chapter 11 filings end up under failing to get approval.
I can't find any specific information, but based on certain information (eg, the fact that Iridium, LLC has sold their satellite constellation, without which they have no real business) I conclude they've filed for Chapter 7. The owner of Iridium Satellite, LLC is one Dan Colussy, a former Pan Am president, who to the best of my knowledge was never affiliated with Iridium, LLC in any manner. My guess is that Mr. Colussy wanted to keep the brand name, which is why the companies have such similar names.
Standard disclaimer: IANAL, but I was raised by one, and I've worked with companies going through bankrupcy before.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/sto ries/20001130/388184.html
-- This sig is.
No, I know, but in any other case I can think of, someone's responsible. If you hit someone, then you are responsible. Sure, the automobile may have made the situation more dangerous, but there's still someone to hold accountable. And, if you're worried, you don't have to drive. If you walk, and obey all traffic signals, and only cross at the crosswalk, anyone who hits you will likely be charged with manslaughter. If he's not, it's only because there were no witnesses.
On the other hand, with Iridium, if one of those satellites hits someone, it's not Iridium's fault because the government gave them a free pass. So it's the government's fault. Just from a moral perspective that strikes me as bad. From a political perspective, it could be even worse. Say it lands on one of the Chinese. American satellites are killing our citizens!
Yes, this will not kill many people (or, probably, any). But the fact that there's a good chance that it could, and the fact that the person killed likely has no involvement with Iridium, or has ever met anyone who has an involvement with Iridium, or even lives in the country that authorized Iridium, strikes me as being wrong.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
If I'm wrong, here's the math I used:
1/(1-(0.9999^70)) = 143.35
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
I don't know exactly what the orbits are for Iridium, but you can get the two line element sets used to track them from here: http://celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/ There's element sets for not only Iridium, but the other LEO's, Geo's, GPS's and the like. There's also tracking software on that site as well, but I don't know anything about it since I use STK at work.
(sarcasm)
Nah, it's on-topic. In Titanic II instead of sinking in the northern hemisphere... they sink in the southern hemisphere! Bam! It's synergistic - nobody would expect that kind of twist!
(/sarcasm)
Moof!
A polar orbit usually indicates something that's taking a lot of pictures of the whole planet. For sneaky purposes or not. :^)
and while we're at it.. the site has some pretty obvious flaws... to bmw fanatics :)
:)
it refers to a 535i with a "nickel" block. This is most likely referring to the Nikasil alloy used in the 530 and 540 engines in the E34 5 series (5 series models 89-95). The 530 and 540 are both V8s that originally used Nikasil alloy.. while the 535i was the legendary M30 based inline 6 motor and had no such problems (and indeed usually lasts well into the 200k mile range).
If the car was ineed a 535i, its engine had no such problem. If the car was really a 530, and did have an effected nikasil block, then depending on mileage, the block could have perhaps been replaced under warranty. Finally, there is no guarantee that a nikasil laden engine will exhibit the particular problem so trading in a car based on heresey from someone else seems kinda foolish
furthermore, "beamer" is a misnomer. Dumb as it sounds, BMWs with 4 wheels (i.e. cars) are "bimmers", while the BMW motorcycle heritage (which i might add is much older than the automobile side) produces the "beemers".
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
--
The shareholder is always right.
All generalizations are false.
--
I like to watch.
From Josh:
MY MOM WAS AN IDIOT, SHE READ SOME CRAP ON THE INTERNET AND SOLD THE CAR!!! It was a 535i. And in AMERICA we say beamer. Just ask anyone in Los Altos...they say beamer.
All generalizations are false.
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I like to watch.
Intel pulled off their processors - then Transmeta does it with 300 pieces of their processors - and now IRIDIUM! :)
:) :) :)
AAAAAA!!! What are we going to do?! Where to hide?! What will be left of us?! Who's going to maintain the Linux Kernel!?
And most important - is the last backup of my DivX collection recoverable?!
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That is, there is a one-in-10,000 chance of anybody being hurt on the ground by a falling ing Iridium spacecraft, he told SPACE.com.
Hmm. I'd like 1 in a million a lot more..!
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If you look up at the right time, you can see Iridium satellites, even during the day, because they have big panels that reflect sunlight like a mirror. You just need to look up at the right time, in the right place.
The Heavens Above web site can tell you where to look.
Check out http://www.heavens-above.com.
If you plug in your latitude and longitude, or choose your location from a menu, the Heavens above calculator will tell you exactly where and when to look. It also tells you where to look to see the Space Shuttle and other cool stuff. One time I saw Mir + Space Shuttle connected together!
If you watch TV news, you know less about the world than if you just drank gin straight from the bottle.
Heh, sad that this is news? :-)
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
It just seems a shame that these satelites are being deorbited. Someone should start a public fund to keep them up there. Isn't there some commercial interest?
Have you read my journal today?
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
So it seems that falling satellites are attracted to areas of dense population. Head for the countryside!
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Some people seem to be making the mistake of thinking that this was a planned re-entry as part of the supposed de-orbiting that was planned before Iridium Satellite LLC bought out what was left of the Iridium company a month or so ago.
This satellite was one of the satellites that had failed, two months after its launch in 1998. It never worked, and subsequently has been tumbling about in orbit around Earth without control nor function for the last two years. Just another piece of space junk, basically, which only now has reentered our atmosphre.
The functioning satellites are still planned to stay in orbit, and providing the service that they were originally designed for.
Just thought I'd clear that up.
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
Iridiums are in geosynchronous orbit, that means hovering above a fixed spot on the planet. Otherwise they would not work. those satellites are in low-earth orbit, meaning that they are 1)garbage 2)spy satellites 3)other surveying (landsat-type) 4)something i didnt think of.
"Chill, Orrin!"---Trent Lott
All generalizations are false.
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I like to watch.
Chicken Little was right?
Say, wasn't it an Iridium meteorite that killed all the dinosaurs?
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
They say there is a one-in-10000 chance being hit by a falling iridium spacecraft. Anyone knows how big the chance is to win in lotto?
...whatever ;)
The satellite had failed just two months after its launch in September 1998, and had been tumbling out of control ever since.
That sounds an awful lot like the story of the company itself and in particular, their stock.
Black holes are where God divided by zero
NASA has acquired a new fleet of 1980 model Fords. It is believed this latest acquisition will allay fears of the Iridium satellites surviving re-entry and crashing into areas of dense human population.
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Steven
With a one-in-10000 chance of getting hit by a falling satellite and a world population of about 6100000000 roughly 610000 people have a good chance of being hit. The lawyers could make a killing!!!!!
"2th (Score:1, Insightful)" who let the trolls moderate?
"fp (Score:1, Funny)" Once again, testing of the troll moderation system is a complete failure.
All generalizations are false.
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I like to watch.
Just my 0000 0010 cents worth...
"See, we plan ahead! That way, we never have to do anything now."
They could make a website where people could buy storagespace on the satellite for poems. Lots of people would probably fall for the idea of sending a poem for their loved one into orbit around the earth. Like with the site where you can buy a star.
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How about telling your girlfriend/boyfriend on a clear night, that if she/he look at the orion, just to the left of it there is a poem written especially for her/him, and it goes like this . .
You would of course get a certificate with the poem, and a map showing where on the sky the poem is located. For an extra fee you could have it framed, too.
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This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for higher security.
I think there is a serious ecological threat for the native penguins. Can we risk a species with such obvious grace, beauty, and nobility? I propose that a commity should be set up to relocate the penguins from the crash site, as well as providing psychological support.
We've been trying to figure out what the (apparently) satellites are that you can see at night traveling from north to south/south to north. Speedy little guys that go by every 20 minutes or so. Are those Iridium or something else? Anyone know?
Is the webmaster of space.com reading this? The site looks nice, there is a lot of information, but it is pure navigational hell. I feel like I am going in circles. Hundreds of things to click on, but they don't seem to get me anywhere
WHAT?! So, according to census.gov, the current U.S. population (the nation of which the quote speaks) is 276,242,855. And if there is a 1-in-10,000 chance of being hit (and hurt) by a piece of an Iridium satellite, then 27,624 people are to be struck, right?
BEWARE!!!!
thelocust[dot]org
Just how big are these sattelites, and what would be left of it by the time that it actually hits earth? Also if anything significant is left, how large would the impact be? Remember: 47.6758% of all statistics are wrong !
Didn't Dan just buy Iridium?
Must be a real bummer to spend a pile o' money on a bunch of fire-sale satellites, figuring that, hey, they're basically unused, gotta be a good deal.
Only to have the wheels fall off as soon as they get outta the parking lot.
I think he outta go back to the store and demand a full refund.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
The gods of Iridium are crying, and their tears like large satellites crash into the sea.
io hymen hymnaee io
io hymen hymnaee
Certainly seems like it!
I just saw an add for another global sat-comm company. Wonder what hardware they use. Don't remember anything else.
Just wonder if they ever learn? Or do they have a trick they think will work?
That would mean mid-November of '98 was when the satellite failed. So presumably, unless he didn't bother asking them what the operational status of the satellites was when he bought them, it comes as no surprise :)
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Arr! Damn you, This falling Iridium satellite has just cut a gap into the hull of my boat. Arr!
I thought a while ago I had heard of someone buying out/saving Iridium a few months ago and they would be funding getting the satellites in working order. Guess this kind of proves that was false? Still a sad waste of machinery. Well hopefully in another 20 years I will be able to comfortably afford my own comm satellite, lol. :D
.--bagel--.---------------.
| aim: | bagel is back |
| icq: | 158450 |
( o ) one could say I'm rather baked
I saw a satelite re-enter the atmosphere last year at Burning Man, in Nevada; it was surreal. At first, it looked as if a 747 was comming over a mountain range, but as if the aircraft was only a few hundred metres up, but as it moved you could tell it was something else. It was quite beautiful. It's unfortunate that it's too dangerous to bring these things down near populated areas - a re-entry is definitly something that I'd LOVE to see again.
i'd have a volvo over a bmw any day
Only the ignorant do.
Self respecting BMW owners know the difference.
Let me guess, This was a 535i _auto_
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
If you are not familiar with NORAD 2-line elements, look at celestrak's documentation. You can also look at celestrak's software archive.
Paper: An Operational and Performance Overview of the IRIDIUM Low Earth Orbit Satellite System -
Stephen R. Pratt, Richard A. Raines, Carl E. Fossa Jr., and Michael A. Temple Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Air Force Institute of Technology
If you are really interested in playing around with looking at the constellation, take a look at one of the best product's around for visualization and prediction, AGI's STK . You can download a modelling limited version of their software for free from their "Resources" tab.
Generally the satellite business has benefited not so much from technological advances but from industrial maturity. It is now possible to build satellites with a greater variety of off-the-shelf components, which are able to be tested and made reliable at a much lower cost than one-offs. Some satellites are designed for lifetimes up to 15 years. Still, a more typical design lifetime is between 5 and 10 years.
The trouble is that designing longer lifetime into satellites actually is not cost-effective. Technological advances or economic changes on Earth could completely eclipse a satellite's originally-intended functionality. In the case of Iridium, a $5 billion LEO satellite network that took a decade to build was eclipsed by cellular networks spreading worldwide during the same time period. Even though the overall cost of the cell network is probably greater for the same approximate coverage, its per-customer cost ends up being much lower. By the same token, a weather satellite returning 10m resolution images of the atmosphere could be designed for 20 years of life, but if ten years from now the market will only buy 5m resolution images, that satellite is useless.
If you are to contrast Iridium with the Pioneer program, you should also consider the failures of that program. No satellite or interplanetary probe is invulnerable. In most cases, the best defense isn't higher reliability, but greater volume. A satellite may be expensive in the event of a failure, but unlike humans, it is not irreplaceable.
Think long and hard about the technology that you were personally using 15 or 20 years ago, and how much you'd pay now for that functionality. Eight-track tape players for music? Betamax VCR? Non-cellular radio telephone? TRS-80 computer?
Don't be so sure that longevity is a good thing for all technology!
Iridium was a good idea. It was just an unlucky one. Lots of telephone companies in the 19th century failed, too, but we all use Bell technology today.
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lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
six bands asks:
Also why is it more cost beneficial to 'waste' the satellites than to sell them on for other purposes?
Don't think they have not tried to sell it. Last summer they were prepared to sell the entire company for US$50 million, or approximately one cent for every dollar that was spent building the network. The deal failed. Most recently, there have been some last minute talks in the $25 million range.
They're ready to sell it for half a penny on the dollar. But the takers are skeptical, because even if you can imagine repurposing the network, in just two or three years you'd have to start replacing the flying birds. It's a proposition, then, that comes something like getting a free car knowing that it needs tires, a new engine, and a new body.
Iridium isn't the only Low-Earth-Orbit satellite network, but it was the largest and most extensive (and expensive). It's become clear that the need for the technology is limited.
Whatever prupose you can imagine, it will have to be one that you can make about $1B to $5B over the next ten years to cover your capital replacement costs. Right now, Iridium's customer base is measured in something like the low thousands. Are you ready to pay $1 million for cellular service over ten years?
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lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
Well the friend of me said that largely the porn you find on internet is in space in satelites so if the satelites fell from the sky like a bird sick from a rock would that stop me from getting the porn?
I LIKE SEX!
The surest way to make a monkey of a man is to quote him. --Robert Benchley
It says in the article that Iridium LLC went bankrupt and Iridium Satellite LLC bought up the assets for $25M but Boeing is still doing the upkeep on the satellites and Motorola is providing equipment for a subscriber service run off the satellites. Now is it just me, or does this just sound like they filled for Chapt. 11 and sold the company to themselves to try and reorganize and screw people that have IOU's with the company?
Does anyone have any solid information on what is really going on with Iridium? I'd like to see what the current plans are for what they're going to do with it.
I need a funny sig
The juxtaposition raises a few questions in my mind, most immediately, how much faith should we place in the reliability of our spacecraft? Or, more generally, has there been a change in the quality surrounding spacecraft over the past 20 years?
I am not talking about single event errors (explosions, failed mars probes), but instead thinking about how Iridium could have spent so much money and then not provided any real benefit to the creators. (I am assume and believe that most would consider the Pioneer missions successful to all parties involved in it.)
You're obviously unfamiliar with the pressures facing young teens in rich communities to drive an expensive car. Not driving a BMW is frowned upon in in rich neighborhoods like the one Josh lives in, and at times the vehicular envy can become overwhelming. Please help him out by clicking on the banner.
as a 2 time BMW owner, i'd have to agree. No rich brat should be without a new BMW....It's important that rich idiots buy brand new BMWs as status symbols, so BMW AG can afford to make the cars fun and worthwhile for legitimate auto enthusiasts. As long as soccer moms are buying V8 X5's and 750iLs and the whole paralegal crowd is paying too much for the 3er and 530, i can continue to expect to pick up a used one and drive it the way it was meant to be driven...for pennies on the original cost.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.