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NetBSD/Dreamcast Official Port
sparcv9 writes: "The NetBSD/sh3 developer Saitoh Masanobu, who was able to boot the
NetBSD/sh3
kernel on his Sega Dreamcast last summer, has now officially forked a
NetBSD/dreamcast port. The Dreamcast effort will focus specifically on supporting the Dreamcast hardware, rather than just the Super-H processor contained within. Currently, it only boots into single-user mode, and the only function hardware is the serial port, but, hey -- it's a start." This project ranks right up there with all the tivo hacking going on in my eyes. When all is said and done, we could have really inexpensive, but reasonably powerful machines to play with.
NetBSD's strength is in its portability. It already runs perfectly well on x86 platforms (doesn't it?), but since embedded systems and workstations are increasingly non-x86 (the former more so than the latter, but give it time), porting to any generally available hardware is a Good Thing.
Besides, an SH evaluation kit with less firepower than the DC is about $4k, and since the SH is as good as the StrongArm for PDA and other nifty applications, having an el-cheapo development environment is a huge bonus for those of us who want to design hardware on a budget.
b.g.
b.g.
what uses would the dreamcast have once this project is reasonably advanced and what might this resulting machine compare to in standard pc-ish language in regards to speed (or anything else you care to compare it to).
basically, as a linux neophyte, i'm wondering if i should get on the mailing list and trying it out once it gets to a semi-useful phase.
My .02,
My .02,
zencode
iactivist.org/jason
Now if only they would make some rpg's for the DC that DON'T look and feel like evolution. c'mon, what ever happened to originality?
Now this is a nice hack, the one that you would do just just to see if you could.
And when someone came up to you and asked why, you would say,"I wanted to see if I could". You would not need any reason for doing it other then the fun of it. And people wouldn't understand.
I remember when I had time to do such things, that was fun times, but now there's too much work in the real world.
I guess I have become one of those who asks,"That's great, but does it do? What do you plan to use this for?"
--------
for hacking that is! Imagine getting nailed for hacking with your Sega Dreamcast? hehe you get nailed red handed and you get off because you don't even own a computer... "No officer the only thing I have in this house is a dreamcast... it couldn't have been me" hahaha... just a thought ;)
-=Redir
Linux can be freely hacked to do that job, but it's unlikley it'll be used more often if theres a BSD available to do a similar job.
:)
The reason is quite obvious, license. If changes are needed, BSD is the first source. I say this as someone who works regularly with custom hardware for specific purposes.
Linux may be advertised more however as it's a buzzword at the moment. Nothing beats an XML complient, Linux and Java powered machine
Rod Taylor
Man, that would be cool! Think about it, you can pause the world, rewind, record other things while you look at something! Its an amazing idea!
I think it would really come in handy at strip clubs....
- 200 mhz processor: $35
- Custom PowerVR card: $25
- Custom Motherboard: $25
- Memory: $20
- Custom Yamaha sound chip: $20
- Controller: $20
- Modem: $15
- Two games (coming with most bundles now): $40
That's well over the $150 you can spend on the sports bundle, which includes all these things. How is Sega making money on the hardware again?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Is it illegal to sell a DC that has been modified?
GiraffeSville, a place anyone can call home
Cool. He got it to boot on a Dreamcast. But what about my Knitting Machine?
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Technically those two games cost nothing more than the cost to burn and package them. Cut that down to two dollars.
A planet where apes evolved from men? Long live the apes.
So what's the general purpose performance of this Super H CPU in the DC? is it fast enough to make up for the slow serial port?
Never mind the hacking. I think a decent percentage of DC owners pirate game isos. It's quite easy to find cd-burnable DC games despite Sega's feeble anti-piracy features. Pretty much every PSX owner I know pirates tons of games. PSX2 isn't immune either.
I could be wrong, but I thought the DC ran on an SH4 processor, and this is an SH3 port. Am I right or am I mistaken?
This guy has an IDE interface for the DC, apparently, which seems to be 5 chips on some veroboard.
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
If didn't deliver me to the page. It delivered me to a page with a link.
It's like saying here's an interesting story...
NetBSD 1.5_ALPHA (DREAMCAST) #8: Fri Jul 14 01:42:14 JST 2000e vbsh3/compile/DREAMCAST
msaitoh@vslock.xxx.yyy:/var/sources/src/sys/arch/
total memory = 16384 KB
avail memory = 12988 KB
No, it's *not* available. Neither is the NetBSD one. So how exactly is the linux version further along?
-lx
Both are the truth. Sega makes a profit, though a small one, on each DC. Sony loses a ton on each PS2, partly because of Rambus and partly because it's just plain more expensive to build. This article explains it in some detail, along with a few pokes at the alleged superiority of the PS2.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Very good.
Did you know that the GD-ROM format uses the same wavelength as normal CD-ROMs, unlike DVD which uses a different wavelength laser?
You could feasibly re-write the firmware on some CD-ROM drives to allow it to read GD-ROMs.
Also only some of a GD-ROM drive is actually set at the higher denisty. It is possible to read the inner rim of the GD-ROM with an ordinary CD-ROM drive.
Next time you care to taunt me, why don't you be more complete.
This project ranks right up there with all the tivo hacking going on in my eyes.
When did CmdrTaco get the Tivo implanted in his eyes?...
---------------------------------------------
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
-Omar
It does, but only because the Toshiba (or Yamaha?) play to be the first sellers of 1G CD-RW systems failed. Mosty because nobody wanted them. Many can still write them! They can't be read on normal CD-ROMs, so people wern't intrested. It fizzled, and then later Sega licenced it.
The Dreamcast can also read normal CDs, otherwise we wouldn't have any music :-)
There is a CD image of a bootable netbsd for the DC at: www.hh.iij4u.or.jp/~bsh/netbsd-dc/netbsd-dc-001.ta r.gz
Burning instructions are at: http://mc.pp.se/dc/cdr.html
However, the image only has serial support (set to 56,6Kb 8N1. There is a ramdisk which the kernel will boot that has sh and a few other basic bits and rouge is installed under /usr/local or maybe /usr/games. You'll need to set TERM and do `stty nl' to play rouge.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a brutal anal raping at airport security
I certainly hope that GD-ROM discs have a capacity higher than one megabit. Otherwise, we're all going to have to go back to playing Asteroids and Frogger.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
So that's our solution? We run them into the ground?
It's a good thing I don't want to buy two of these "low-cost machines", considering they won't be in business anymore.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
What about developing them?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
i wonder if there are any plans to create an emulator, so netbsd/dreamcast users can play their dreamcast games from within netbsd... that would be a really neat thing, although it's probably pretty tough.
It wouldn't be too tough if the Dreamcast's processor supported virtualization (ala IBM S/390)... assuming it was like the i386 processor, some work would need to be done emulating certain functions. If neither of the above, it wouldn't be possible without full-blown emulation.
We, the Arab people, will be triumphant!!!! ALLAH ACKBAR!!!
Wait a minute. ACKBAR? Wasn't that some alien general in Star Wars? Jesus Christ, another conspiracy! We're doomed.
that DC comes with a modem. Now I'll be able to build a server more powerful than ZDnet's
I saw Linux boot on dreamcast in September at Linux Kongress.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Consider this. NetBSD is not the most portable. It may run on a lot of junk hauled out of college dumpsters but not on current hardware. NetBSD counts processors multiple time when they claim portability, e.g. Sun 3/50, Apollo, Amiga, etc. are all Moto 68K. Same with various MIPs systems. Most of what they make the claim for is obsolete and out of production for years.
In sharp contrast, consider Linux. Think about Linux portability: current silicon like S/390 and Palm, and even some older stuff like i8088 and i80286 where NetBSD isn't anywhere to be seen. Go through the list of NetBSD claims and you will see that it is built around old MIPS 3K and Moto 68K junk. Certainly Linux beats everyone in scalability; from the Palm to the IBM mainframe, Linux runs it all. No one, commercial or otherwise, has that kind of Linux scalability. NetBSD lives in the past. Linux is the future.
Sorry to feed the trolls, but
Sigh. First off, that was years ago, most people have gotten over it quite a while back. No one cares anymore. Yes, Theo's a bit of an ass (though not so much as he used to be), but Linus is rather a prick himself.
Secondly, NetBSD and OpenBSD are hardly the whole of the BSD community, in fact I imagine that they don't even have the combined userbase of FreeBSD. Considering that BSD usage and press coverage in general has spiked enormously during this year, and seeing that BSDI is getting massive funding and making great progress on the FBSD 5.x branch, I think BSD hardly has one foot in the grave.
Moderators, give this guy the flamebait rating he deserves. Simply because someone writes a lot of words doesn't mean they have anything to say.
-lx
It's scary to think that all these c001 h4ckz that we come up with end up in the hands of total lamers like Saddam. I am sure that is what he has in mind with all the playstations he scored. Cluster a thousand 300MHz 128-bit boxes and you have one killer supercomputer that's just itching to design an H-bomb.
Need a Linux consultant in New Orleans?
Your criteria is "small, fast, and compatible" not to mention "freely hacked"
Yet BSD is a BETTER choice based on your criteria.
Small - PicoBSD is a fully functioning Unix OS on a floppy.
Fast - BSD on benchmarks runs FASTER than linux. 10-30% faster.
Compatible - The result of the X86Open group (creation of a common binary format for X86 unixes) was a Linux ELF format. Thusly products like FreeBSD can run Linux binaries. And, FreeBSD can run Quake III linux binaries FASTER than Linux does. And, it is well known and accepted that NetBSD is ported to more platforms.
And, "freely hackable", the BSD license allows the user of the code to commericalize their product without the worry of having to release the IP the company uses in the product. The code is MUCH more free to do what a human wants to than other licenses.
Looking at 2 'linux' projects that are willing to admit they used the pioneering work of NetBSD are the dreamcast port (acknolodge the boot code is NetBSD inspired) and Linux on WinCE
Linux may 'work well', but in the world of computer code, the BSD tree is BETTER!
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Why do people put their efforts into netBSD/DC? Because they can. Because obviously it's something they want to do. Because they have that freedom of will.
Besides, maybe they don't want to work on PC/Mac hardware. Maybe some of them ALREADY work on PC/Mac hardware. I don't know.
Consider this, though: To port netBSD to the Dreamcast, they probably have to have a good idea how to develop and OS port, they have to have an idea how to write device drivers, and certaily they would have had to have exercise that knowledge before. So what do you think they honed their skills on?
You know, it's probably better to have people working on project that are very enthusiastic and personally interested in a positive outcome.
So why climb that mountain? Because it's there!
--
--
Intelligence is definitely a recessive trait.
What about developing them? ----> What about it? If you're including the development cost of the games in your calculations then you should also be including the engineering, development and marketing costs of the consoles in your figures as well....
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
I think you neglect the power of bulk purchasing in nearly all of these estimates.
Let's take one: "Custom motherboard: $25." Exactly what hat do you pull that out of? In single quantities a motherboard like the DC would be $1K+, but in the lots they're having them made I don't see why they would be more than $2.00 a unit. There is a quantity/delivery/price factor in every item you mention which you are ignoring.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Hmm... That adds a whole new meaning to the term "LIMITED Edition!" ;-) What does the LE Dreamcast have that would make it attractive to consumers?
Ask your doctor if getting up off your ass is right for you! -- Bill Maher
With everyone hacking their Dreamcasts to run BSD, and noone buying games, and Sega losing money on each piece of hardware sold, won't this drive Sega into further money problems? They already lost something like $300 million this past year (and this was a good year for them).
1. It's not "everyone". Let's be generous and state that's 0.05% of all Dreamcast owners.
2. That's Sega's problem.
It has a 128 bit(!)
>>>>>>>>>>
We've had 128 bit processors ever since the PIII came out. Console manufacturers will use the widest thing on the chip to talk about the "bitness" of a console. Thus, the reason PS2 is a 128bit console is the fact that the vector pipes are 128bits. Using that logic, Intel could call a Pentium an 80bit chip (the FPU is 80 bits), and Intel and Motorola could call the P4 and the G4 (respectively) 128 bit chips (because both SSE2 and AltiVec are 128bit vector pipes.) PC companies stopped doing this after Neomagic came out with a 256bit graphics chip (the memory bus was 256bits) for laptops.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
There's a surprising number of apps being written, by random people, for the dreamcast. MP3 players, emulators for other consoles, it's all good. Try dcemulation.com for a start.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
With everyone hacking their Dreamcasts to run BSD, and noone buying games, and Sega losing money on each piece of hardware sold, won't this drive Sega into further money problems? They already lost something like $300 million this past year (and this was a good year for them).
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Hm, interesting
EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
Actually, the DC was recently (appx 5 months ago) cracked. If you search for DC, and warez on a IRC network's list of channels, you will find a list that will rival that of PS ISO channels. I do not condone this, but poeple can burn the ISOs of the games on normal CDs, and play them without modification to the dreamcast itself. I imagine that if they can do that with the origional games, they could easlily do it with their own programs.
i wonder if there are any plans to create an emulator, so netbsd/dreamcast users can play their dreamcast games from within netbsd... that would be a really neat thing, although it's probably pretty tough.
would they have to do the trapping that vmware and plex86 do?
they could call it 'dreamware' or some knock-off of vmware. but then that wouldn't be very creative.
jon
-- http://www.cerastes.org
Sega's got one in the works. Use that. Or, if it's an atapi drive, use the interface.
Keep this quiet, otherwise Saddam will snap them all up for his supercomputer cluster, like he did with the PS2.
It will probably also run nicely on on the X-Box. :)
Bibo Ergo Sum.
a beowulf cluster of these...
I bought a Dreamcast so I could work on the DC Linux project, but I've already bought two games for it and I intend to buy more. PC's beat the crap out of consoles in terms of graphics and speed. The whole point of having a console, other than the hack value, is to be able to put in a game and spend a few hours playing it without crashes, rebooting, compatibility problems, or someone killing your game by sending you an instant message. I'm willing to bet that nearly everyone involved in DC hacking also owns a few shrinkwrapped games. That's where Sega makes its money. Just because someone wants to hack a console doesn't mean they don't also want to have some mindless fun with Crazy Taxi or Armada.
-John
Don't forget that Linux is at a much further stage of development for the Dreamcast. It's available at http://linuxdc.sourceforge.net/
You've got tivos in your 3y3z?
and they're getting h4x0r3d?
The real trick would be to find enough room in the case for one of those miniature IDE drives found in laptops, otherwise some external hack might be needed.
Nope, still wrong. a little "b" denotes the word "bit". A big "B" stands for byte. A gigabit = 1/8 of a gigabyte.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Dreamcast had a proprietary "GD-ROM" drive that has a capacity of 1Mb or so I
:)
"1mb"? That's not real impressive... I mean you can fit 1.44mb on a floppy.... oh you meant 1gb right?
http://www.bootyproject.org
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
From the geek in me, that's really cool!
From the logical side in me... If the developers hacking these systems would concentrate their obvious talent into something like perfecting support on standard PC/Mac etc hardware I think it may be more benificial to the community at large.
As the Dreamcast will be totaly revamped in its next iteration (probably), making this port almost useless. If this port only runs in backward compatibility mode, whats the point? And to what end other than a cool hack that gets posted on /. does this have. Are all the pimple faced kids who are playing games on theirs going to rush out and download a port of BSD to run on their systems? If they have a burner to make the CD, don't they already have hardware that's probably pretty cool already?
So the intention of getting cheap hardware that can be usefull is now useless? Who becomes the end user? Some little old lady who's grandkid has all the cool toys and has thrown his Dreamcast asside for the new PS2 he finally got off backorder?
I think if the community of hackers is to survive, focus must be applied. How many projects at source forge are duplicates doing the same code for the same end but independant of each other.
And for the troll... wouldn't it be cool to build a cluster of these...
Before you hack that fish... think about why your doing it.
AF-Design, web development.
When *that* bootdisk first got out on the net I read a lot of the sites which sprung out of nowhere giving tips on illegal game CD burning and also DC programming. (The reason I was interested is so I could play import games, and if you don't believe that, tough luck, it's true, there are still a few of us left who have scruples).
Anyway, one issue which kept coming up on the boards was the supposed death of the GDROM unit after playing CD games for a while. Lots of people posted saying it had actually happened to them, and people tried to explain it in terms of the drive's access pattern, i.e. they said that the original games were written in an optimized way for sequential access, and with home burns the reads would be skipping about more...
What I want to know is, was this all covert FUD from Sega agents, or is it really true?
Sega have been working with Iomega on a zip storage device (that sits snugly underneath the DC) for a while now. The reason it has so far not been released is economic reasoning; up until now it would have cost as much as the Dreamcast console, and that is to much for the average consumer to consider paying.
Perhaps the coolest thing in my opinion, is now anyone who wants to can write a bootable game for the DC
The only big show stopper for me is thwe lack of storage. Unlike tyhe ps2, the DC has now usb or firewire ports, which means that adding a hdd ain't going to be easy. In fact, does anyone know if adding a HDD to the DC is doable?
GiraffeSville, a place anyone can call home
yeah - silly typo...
:-)
still I can always plead "deliberate mistake"
Kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera, who cares!!!
Has anyone conceived of and is working on a USB-to-DC serial adapter? It probably would require buffering hardware for the interface but at least all additional hardware could be external to both the USB host and the DC.
As far as I know, the USB 1.1 spec specifies a 1.5 Mb/s subchannel and the DC serial port can run at 1.5 MB/s as well.
Are there any USB-on-a-chip implementations available which might support such an effort?
Sega are due to release a limited edition Dreamcast in Japan soon, which is unable to play the bootable cds, and also other CDs such as the GameShark, Action Replay. They then plan to introduce the same technology into the normal Dreamcasts.
There's loads of other info about DC emulation at www.boob.co.uk and Edge magazine (in the UK) recently had an article about DC emulation.
GiraffeSville, a place anyone can call home
as a dreamcast enthuiast and part time linux user, i'd be very interested in tinkering with a netbsd or linux port on the dreamcast. i've tried a number of time to get a sucesful burn from the code i get at sourceforge with no luck. has anybody ever seen a cd image of any of the current *nix projects on the dreamcast?
And then we can Beowulf cluster that little bastard child of a PDA and a memory card that goes in the Dreamcast controller, and then we can Beowulf cluster a bunch of TI-85's, and then we can do it with tivos and aibos, and a box of crackers, and we'll get computer chips implanted in our brains and Beowulf cluster those, and we'll beowulf cluster blah blah blah blah
This needs to stop.
idiot.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
My understanding was that the Dreamcast had a proprietary "GD-ROM" drive that has a capacity of 1Mb or so I asked Is this being used a the boot device for NetBSD?
So I dug around, it looks like the DC is actually capable of booting off a standard ISO-9660 CD-ROM.
Interesting? I thought so... Here are some really interesting links on Dreamcast Software Programming and Hardware programming.
It's incredible what's going on. What else has been ported to the DC?