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Space Diving
Anonymous Coward writes "There's a Canadian company that wants to introduce a new sport called "space diving." It's like sky diving, but from space down to earth. But the interesting thing is the inspiration behind space diving: NASA had a wacked-out idea in the '60s for astronauts to return to earth without a capsule. The astronauts were expected to leap from the capsule toward earth with nothing but a spacesuit, a backpack, and a retrorocket gun to save them. A ballute (maybe filled with nitrogen or helium but I checked and a light foam was considered) in the backback would slow the reentry so the astronaut wouldn't char, and then parachutes would guide a traditional descent. But the weirdest part is they'd have to fire the gun to point themselves to the right height and position to come down over land. I'd never heard of this escape system before. Read the article."
As for Generations...yes, they filmed a sequence with Kirk landing after making a successful orbital skydive, but it was cut from the final movie. One of the Generations action figures I have is Kirk in the tile-covered jumpsuit.
Eric
--
Be who you are...and be it in style!
hey, I'll join FROG and help raid Buckingham Palace! That sounds like a good time!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Don't tell you you actually read a *STAR TREK BOOK*!
*shocked silence*
You can't get much more wacked out than an idea from a "Star Trek" movie. As I recall (and IMDB confirms), Capt. Kirk skydived from orbit in an opening scene that was cut from "Star Trek: Generations." Though the scene wasn't in the movie, they sold dolls of Capt. Kirk with the high-tech chute. A friend of mine bought one with the absolute geek certitude that it would have even more value for being from a cut scene.
Sounds cool.
You try it first!
Have you ever seen us play hockey? I rest my case.
We know all about drunk, armed rednecks--we have Alberta. (Think Texas, but colder, and with moose instead of whatever wimpy game you have down there.) We also know what real beer is (hint--it's not that watery stuff you drink).
Besides, your drunk rednecks are just as much of a danger to themselves as to others. We'll just airdrop some strong Canadian Beer beforehand, and they'll all be in a drunken stupor when we arrive.
Probably wouldn't work. The human body is mostly water, which as you may know, has an incredibly high heat capacity. The laser could cause blindness or moderate burns, but not death. To quote the greatest movie of all time (well...), Blazing Saddles, "Don't shoot him, you'll just make him angry."
There was also an episode featuring a space elevator, which had its share of mechanical problems.
Well, if you jump out of a spacecraft that's orbiting the earth won't you just....orbit the earth?
Say you slow down enough to start hitting atmosphere, using that retro rocket, even in the extremely thin atmosphere you should be going fast enough to break the molecules apart.
The best way I can think about doing this is to strap everyone to the outside of the last stage of a rocket. Have it go up a hundred miles, everyone detaches and falls back to earth.
Man, riding a rocket on the OUTSIDE, that's extreme sports.
Later
ErikZ
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Is it just me, or was this ripped straight from the book Star Trek Generations? You know when Kirk goes through his whole adventuring phase and does the space diving?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I don't know about you, but I read the book first. It was a weird purple and blue book, but it *was* Star Trek Generations.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Go back and read my original post .. the word air is in quotes. There is very little "air" up there .. but it's still part of the atmosphere. The reason things burn up when they hit the atmosphere is due to one thing : friction. At 20,000 miles an hour, even very little "air" causes great friction. So things get hot and they burn. They need the baloon chutes not to slow down, but to keep them oriented in the correct position. The baloon keeps them from tumbling in 3-space. It's the same concept as a drogue chute that's deployed during a tandem skydive.
The problem is that when you get into the lower atmosphere, the baloon causes too much pull. The air is denser, so you can ditch the baloon and switch to a drogue chute to achive the same results -- no spinning.
anacron
Gotta rememebr from that altitude, the diver would exceed the speed of sound and be very aerodynamically unstable, a potentially life threatening problem...
Eric Aitala
www.f1m.com
I'm an USAF flight surgeon, trained in aerospace physiology. I'm not a skydiver, so those of you that are can add to my discussion below. I'm sure the Canadian folks have considered the following issues, but I thought it might be interesting to shed light on them here:
(1) Armstrong's Line - This is at an altitude of about 60,000 feet. At this level, the pressure is low enough to cause water to boil (remember Boyle's Law in physics?). Everything in you would boil - your blood, your interstitial tissue fluids, even the vitreous bodies (stuff inside your eyeballs). This is one reason why pressure suits are required at that kind of altitude. If you egressed from a spacecraft above that level without a suit, you would go "Cook! Cook! Cook!" (similar to Beavis' "Fire! Fire! Fire!"). After learning about Armstrong's Line way back, I have a different take when I watch movies when people go into space without any pressurization.
(2) Oxygen - Pressurized oxygen is required at higher altitude levels. Oxygen by itself it not enough, because at those levels, the partial pressure of oxygen in your blood is not enough to diffuse into your tissues. Therefore, without oxygen getting into your brain tissues, you would pass out. Interestingly, the TUC (time of useful consciousness, i.e. the length of time you would last without pressurized oxygen) at 25,000 feet is about one minute, while at 35,000 feet is about 15-30 seconds). This is why the airlines say you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and then help others next to you (not the other way around!). Another thing, assuming you're using 100% oxygen, measures have to be taken to prevent it from igniting - remember in the Right Stuff, when Yeager ejected at high altitude? It wasn't shown in the film clearly, but when he had ejected, his oxygen caught on fire and had to deal with it on the way down - he ended up with burns on his face. He's one of our regular patients at work, and he's always telling stories like that.
Unfortunately, "Naked Spacediving (tm)" probably wouldn't be possible. Hope this helps a little. Kudos to any non-USAF, non-professional skydiver who pulls this feat off without reaching subterranean mach speeds!
<Ob. Canadian "eh"> eh?
1. Yes, American beer is like sex in a canoe (fsking close to water), but I've never seen an American drink that swill -- the decent imported stuff is cheaper than soft drinks here.
2. Texas wild pigs vs. Moose: Imagine a small import car. Imagine it three times it's usual size, but with the same weight. Imagine it mad at you. You got moose. (They're essentially docile, and blind, but can get pretty mean if pissed off).
3. Canadians are world experts at telecom. They could probably coordinate a multi-city syncronized surprise attack from above. How much of telecom experts are Canadians? Canada is so big, with parts so remote, we shot up satelites with the sole purpose of delivering television to people... in the 1960s.
4. Failing a military-style assault, Canadians, well French Canadians from Quebec, could resort to a secret weapon: Poutine. It's got enough artery-clogging stuff to kill even the most insensitized couch potato. Consider it culinary warfare. Quebec soft drinks (to wash it down) contain triple the usual dose of sugar and so rot one's teeth to the point of rendering them ineffective -- the yanks couldn't even bite the invaders (and lest anyone think that Americans won't eat garbage, remember that they invented McDonalds, KFC, and, shudder, Taco Bell, complete with talking dog).
5. Canadians would attack in winter. From my experience, American cities and snow don't mix, becoming crippled with a 12 inch snowfall. Canadian cities get this about every 3-4 weeks in the winter. Nothing stops. Imaging a snowblower with a 100 inch wide and 36 inch tall maw, blowing snow 30 feet into the back of a truck (or your front yard). Imagine a vehicle big and strong enough to push the thing. Canadians know how to deal with snow. Americans don't even know what "snow tires" are. Yup, Canadians would attack in winter.
6. Celine Dion, Anne Murray, and Rita McNeal. What, you thought they were singers? Canadians think of them as "acoustic soldiers".
You could've hired me.
Well, Project Manhigh only tested the high-speed high-altitude deployment 'chutes. Their tests never left the atmosphere, and didn't really involve any kind of reentry procedure.
--
Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
It is my understanding that (at least some of) the crew of the Challenger survived the initial explosion, as the flight recorder showed their attempts to regain control. It is believed that they died upon impact with the ocean, a fall of ten nautical miles that caused them to go through their six-point harnesses. Of course, in that case, there was no possible way for them to abort or otherwise escape the craft.
That rules, in the future people will jump from space to disturb sporting events and prank dive Buckingham palace.
He didn't almost die from the failed glove, but of course it's dangerous. I would not want to jump out of an airplane either, for that matter.
# debian/rules
Even seen a Mercury capsule? They really arn't all that much more complex than some of these. Guess you could say this has been done 7 times already.
Mmm.. mush go watch "Right Stuff" now...
end communication
In the book "Orbital Decay" one of the beam jacks uses this exact method to escape to Earth. Steele wrote from the trainers point of view that given the choice between death and flying home on one of these contriptions they'd pick death. Anyway it's a good read if you can find it as it's out of print. So check used: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0441498515/
In 1960, Joe Kittinger went up in a helium balloon. This man is sometimes regarded as the first man in space, although he just went 20 miles up (outside the atmosphere, anyway).
A recent BBC documentary showed a film from this event, as the guy was smart enough to bring a film camera ;-)
Read more at http://fy.chalmers.se/~f3aamp/teaching/np/balloon. html
and http://www2.tsixroads.com/corinth/jk016.html.
There is a lady that is currently in training to do a "space drive", infact I believe I found the link on SlashDot. Also, more can be found here
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I'm a karma whore, mod me up damn you!
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58.0% slashdot corrupt
Ballute=baloon+parachute
A regular parachute will not deploy because there is not enough air, but the ballute will inflate and create just enough drag in the thin atmosphere to stabilize the spacediver.
I wonder if Cheryl Stearns is also considering using a ballute for her record setting dive.
----
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
And let's not forget the space diving scene that Voyager's Torres does. Hopping out of a shuttlecraft and doing reentry wearing a spacesuit covered with heat tiles.
Mmmmm....Sounds tasty....Hell, they could use the rockets to slow-roast the lamb on the way up...
As a skydiver, this is quite possibly the single most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
The article mentions jumping from a hight of 62 miles. That's interesting.
The highest jump ever performed to date was done by a guy name Joe Kittinger back in the 60's. His jump from a weather balloon was from an altitude of about 103,000 feet - or 19.5 miles.
The highest skydive EVER done was only at 19 miles, when this space article is talking about over 60 miles. Hrm. Yeah, I'll just line up for that one.
Whenever you hear stories about NASA (the air force, actually) testing escape procedures during the moon program, well - this is it. Kittinger was an air force captain.
It's interesting to note that Kittinger actually experienced a failure of his spacesuit during the jump. He landed with a (american) football sized right hand. He did not suffer any long term effects of the injury.
Kittinger's jump was scheduled to be one of three jumps. It was not repeated because a: it was two dangerous, b: it was too expensive.
Cheryl Sterns is going just a few thousand feet higher in her attempt. Read about it on Discover.com Should she succeed she will hold the record for the highest jump. To pay for her jump, Cheryl has organized the support of a great many sponsors.
You'll often hear snipits about both Kittinger and Sterns having to wear drogue parachutes to help keep them stable. While it was true for Kittinger, it is not true for Sterns. Kittinger required a drogue parachute for one simple reason: they hadn't figured out how to maintain a stable body position at any altitude.
Sterns will not require one, but may choose to use one. As she gets higher, obviously the air preasure gets smaller. The reduced air preasure will allow her to fall faster. The higher you go, the faster you fall. The faster you fall, the "wind" in your face increases. Your ability to control yourself is dependant upon the amount of "wind" in your face.
IE - if you're at terminal velocity, you can control yourself. As the air preasure decreases, terminal velocity increases.
Anyways, why is this absurd?
First of all the cost. Skydivers are really going to pay for a DISPOSABLE TWO-PHASE SOLID FUEL ROCKET???? WTF??? ARE YOU NUTS?
Secondly, it's a HELL OF A LOT cheaper to go to the altitude that Kittinger did or Sterns will. Why? weather balloons are a hell of a lot cheaper then two-phase rockets.
Thirdly, the return on investment just isn't that great. I mean, you've tripple the altitude (19 miles vs 60), but you need to remember that the higher you go, the less air resistance, the faster you go. By tripleing the distance, I seriously doubt you'd get a significantly longer freefall.
known estimated freefall times:
10,000 feet: 40 seconds. [*]
15,000 feet: 60 seconds. [*]
26,000 feet: 100 seconds. [*]
100,000 feet: 220 seconds!
327,000 feet: ???
* - from my personal log book.
Anyways, I'm offering bets that we won't be seeing this anytime in our lifetime... or our kids... or our grandkids... It just doesn't make sense.
_Am
These folks are obviously trying to win both the X-Prize and a Darwin award in one go. Thats getting a little too greedy if you ask me.
.^
^.
( @ )
Soylent Foods, Inc.
Here's somemore from Discovery.com
I'm seeing new uses for building roofs. Executives could land exactly on the building they wanted to visit, rather than waiting for cabs and lugging luggage through security checkpoints. As a frequent flier, let me just say that this is one heck of an idea.
"Thank you for flying air re-entry - you are about to touch down on your chosen building in downtown Boston. Your hand luggage is touching down in Manhattan and your underhold luggage is touching down in London, Paris and Prague. We hope you will appreciate the fact that your body is still intact. We look forward to trying to correct this oversight on future flights."
:)
I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down...
OK, so right now I can go and do a sky-diving tandem jump - I strap on to an instructor and off we go. I wonder if they'll have this facility (or equivalent) in this service. Hmmmm - given the joys of orienting/stabilising in zero-g, I'd prefer to do this the first time with an instructor.
:)
Of course, this immediately leads to:
"Any ol' loser can be in the Mile High Club, but I joined the 50 Mile High Club!"
Man, this thing just brings whole new meaning to the concept of re-entry
I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down...
There was an article on here awhile back about a lady, Cheryl Stearns, who is planning on skydiving from over 31 miles up (165,000 ft). She'd reach upto 1.5 Mach coming back to earth.
m l
http://slashdot.org/articles/00/11/02/0411221.sht
First, NASA didn't come up with that, the Air Force did in Project Manhigh.
Second, it's not far-fetched, it worked! Twice! both paticipants survived the incident unharmed, and had NASA had chosen to inherit the technology it might have saved Challenger.
# debian/rules
so, how do baloons and parachutes work? Baloons work by being lighter than the air around them (hence, hot-air baloons work in cold air, helium (or hydrogen) baloons work in standard air. PArachutes work by using the resistance of the air to slow one down.
Neither of these really work outside the atmosphere!
I can only presume they only fly you up to a height that, while arguably 'in space' is not totally out of the atmosphere--just most of it.
I think I won't be first in line for this. MAybe 100th.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
I don't know if anyone's noticed this yet, but every article that shows up on the space.com slashbox get submitted for a story within a week. Couldn't we just hurry things up and funnel those directly to the frontpage?
This was a great song we sung when I was an active skydiver (my buddy was an excellent acoustic guitar player!) Ahh...the memories!
For more humorous skydiving things, check out
http://www.afn.org/skydive/humor/
Blood on the Risers
Sung to the tune of "Battle Hymn of the Republic"
Revised and edited for sport by Little David
First jumper on the wingstrut called the spotter as he looked
Our hero now was fearless for he'd read Russ Gunby's book
He jumped right out into the blast, his static line unhooked
He ain't going to jump no more.
Chorus:
Gory, Gory, what a helluva way to die,
Gory, gory, what a helluva way to die
Gory, gory what a helluva way to die
He ain't going to jump no more.
He counted long, he counted loud, six thousand was his goal
He tumbled out of stable and began a forward roll
He spun out flat, began to dive and went out of control
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The risers wrapped around his neck, connectors cracked his dome
The lines were snarled and tied in knots around his skinny bones
The canopy became his shroud, he hurtled to the ground
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
He pulled the handle on his reserve and threw it far away
He tried to grab the skirt, but all his thumbs got in the way
He threw it out all full of holes and then began to pray
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The days he'd lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind
He thought about the girl below, the one he'd left behind
He thought about the medico's and wondered what they'd find
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The ambulance was on the spot, its mighty siren wailed
The medics rolled their sleeves and smiled as through the air he sailed
For it had been a week or more since last a chute had failed
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The drop zone coming fast, a hundred miles or more
"I get his helmet and his boots," he heard a buddy roar
He bounced around the runway in the welter of his gore
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
His pelvis crashed into his chest, his ribs poked through his side
His helmet bounced a hundred feet, his head was still inside
The ground crew stood there laughing as he rolled around and died
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
Hey, this has incredible implications for the airline industry. Instead of paying ridiculous fares to get yourself somewhere you don't really want to be (the airport), you could just hop on a rocket, head for the stratosphere, and then guide yourself down to the general vicinity using your handy rocket-powered backpack.
I'm seeing new uses for building roofs. Executives could land exactly on the building they wanted to visit, rather than waiting for cabs and lugging luggage through security checkpoints. As a frequent flier, let me just say that this is one heck of an idea.
Not.
What's your damage, Heather?
..this is how we plan to take over Earth. Our spaceborne regiments of hockey-stick armed toothless warriors will plunge towards the Whitehouse and burn it (again) just as the Presidential transition is taking place, eliminating both of your "great leaders". This will leave you with no choice but to bring back Jimmy Carter.
Essentially leaderless, you Americans will be easy pickings for our elite spacedivers. Imagine the surprise advantage of having a regiment of troops show up out of nowhere. Once military objectives have been achieved, we will appropriate your radio stations, and subject you to Canadian content, 24-7. Those Americans who do not kill themselves after two continuous hours of Celine Dion will be given the option of slavery or becoming part of FROG (France Reconnisance Operations Group).
Our next objective will be Buckingham Palace. A quick, effective strike on the Royal Family will destroy the tabloid industry and thus destabilize the world economy. Demoralized and destitute, the rest of the world shall fall beneath the crunch of our hockey skates.