Slashdot Mirror
KDE 2.1 Beta 2 and Nautilus PR 3 - are out
As the title says - KDE 2.1 Beta 2, and Nautilus Preview Release 3 are out. Both are in the last beta stages. So, if you like KDE or you like GNOME, then go ahead - download the source or binaries, install, test, torch it - and give bug reports. KDE announcment is here which includes LOTS of improvments, while on the Eazel side, there is a nice demo mode which you can test it here or download it here. Enjoy.
I'd tell you which menu, but right now it is completely refusing to startup.
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
- kpr0nharvest v0.93b2 - A KDE application that mass-downloads material from the alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* hierarchy of netnews
- ines2600 v1.0 - An Atari 2600 emulator implemented as a Nintendo Entertainment System ROM image, suitable for use in iNES or the Nintendo emulator of your choice
- gweatheraudio v0.23 - A GTK+-based application that downloads a JPEG of the North American cloud cover from the National Weather Service, converts it to PCM audio, and feeds it to
/dev/dsp
- qdildo v1.3 - A Qt-based program that uses your machine's serial port to control various household devices according to several preset patterns
- billbros v2.0 - An X11 parody of Super Mario Brothers featuring Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer working their way through eight wacky and wonderful words of destruction and mayhem
- budwm v0.3b2 - A new window manager that pipes "WAZZZZAAAAP" through your speakers every time you open a new application
- crap-b-gon v1.13a - A filtering package that blocks material written by BSD users
- kB1FF - A KDE application that pops up a window reading "Y0U H4V3 N3W M41L, D00D!" whenever a new mail message arrives in your mailbox
- ModeratorBuddy v3.3 - A curses-based program that takes your ZIP code as input and determines the nearest available dealer of $3 crack
It seems a shame that with all of this software being released, Slashdot seems to have ignored nearly all of it in favor of those packages that are perceived as being "high-visibility." Let's get out to Freshmeat, people, and start downloading.We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
Additionally, Nautilus needs a better way to edit mimetypes. Ideally, I'd right-click a file, and have the options of:
For example, Gnumeric files are identified as gzip files (since a Gnumeric file is a gzip'ed XML file) that happen to end in ".gnumeric". While Nautilus knows about Gnumeric, it does not know to associate *.gnumeric with Gnumeric.
Also, when I first launched Gnumeric, it scanned every file system for trashcan folders. Not good, since I have my server's 40G MP3 directory mounted via NFS...
www.eFax.com are spammers
All of the sudden, Konqueror got good! It used to have a LOT of Java, Javascript, SSL, etc. issues, athough it was good for lightweight browsing in KDE2. I've been using the new beta all day, though (including testing all the weird features), and its worked great. One crash while trying to load a netscape plugin so far, but thats not bad for 4+ hours of use. Java is slow to start, but otherwise works great. SSL is very good: fast and stable (so far).
If only they could support IMAP in KMail working properly, I'd be able to leave Netscape behind. . .
--JRZ
-
To get the RPMs to install, I had to use --oldpackage with RPM to install both libghttp (as noted on their RH 7 install instructions) and also bonobo.
-
After installing, it started with some "first time" configuration stuff, then promptly crashed. Trying to restart it resulted in an error about having to reboot or re-installing. Rebooting worked.
-
Unfortunately, it insists on setting the desktop background color. Yay, just what we need, an Nth way to do this. Somehow, after launching Nautilus, trying to set the background with GNOME, Enlightenmnet, or even xsetroot fails. You have to go into one of the menus with pixmaps on it, select the "solid color" button to the left, and drag and drop it to your background.
-
While it definitely looks better than PR2, it is unfortunately so far a lot more unstable for me. (Red Hat 7, PIII 400Mhz, latest Ximian everything). It crashed on first time after install; now it is refusing to startup.
Your mileage will vary, but while I am excited with a new release, and it does look a lot better---maybe even faster than PR2---I am surprised at the stability problems I've seen so far. (3:1 ratio of crashes to successful runs? Rebooting to fix problems? I feel like I'm in Windows...) I didn't use PR2 super extensively, but it definitely didn't have these problems. Especially when I've heard GNOME 1.4 is due in February, and Nautilus is supposed to be the included file manager. I would hate to see GNOME's excellent stability (yes, in 2000, GNOME became very stable) tainted...And yes, I do plan to contribute by filing lots of bug reports...
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
Step One: enable desktop menu
:-)
Step Two: move kicker to the top and autohide it
Step Four: choose BII decoration and System theme
Step Five: enjoy
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Maybe you should try this in a windows machine one of those days.
> One of the coolest things you can do in KDE is access files via URLs from *any* KDE application.
Win2K. Take Notepad.exe. File->Open... Enter ftp://www.next.com as a file name. Open whatever file you want.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
It's a bit slow on my old Linux box, a K6/200 w 64M memory. Its worth trying out and having fun with, but it might be annoying for day-to-day use. On my 750 at work and my 1100 at home its completely usable though (I replaced gmc with it), with the smooth graphics turned on.
If you want to use it with a 200MHz machine, you'll probably want to disable "Use smoother (but slower) graphics", turn off "Use Nautilus to draw the desktop" (this capability is much improved, but still buggy and slow, even somewhat slow on the 1100.), and change most of the "speed tradeoffs" options to never. If the box is SCSI, you should be fine leaving a lot of these options on. The packages worked fine on both RH6.2 and RH7.0 systems for me, all of them already had Helix Gnome though.
---
They scream, it's for geeks, no one can use it! It's for servers ACK!!
The coders code, the weak fall, and the mighty tremble.....an award winning GUI or 2 are born.
But you can't do that, GUI's are for desktops and Linux is a great server!!
the coders code, khttpd and better smp comes out, nicer memory handling, USB support. Databases that are so fast commercial apps are forced to go open source.
MS is so upset it says "Linux is going to die by the end of the year". Critics claim that "without better market penetration (i.e. Linux on the desktop) that the open source OS is going no where"
The truth is Linux can do a lot of things very well. Where you put your time coding is your choise. You choose to do something you like, or enjoy. There is no one "target" that works for the entire Linux market. It's simple too big. As far the detractors, keep bitching the coders are listening
.......and the coders code......
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
Yeah... no thanks. I'll stick with 6.2 :P
...
Maybe if you compiled all of RH7.1 with "kgcc"
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
kde.tdyc.com
In fact 2.1b2 has been there for over 4 days
From the freshly started kde-debian FAQ:
6.-Q: How do I install it...I can't find a package called "kde"?
A: 27 Jan 2001
Go to http://kde.tdyc.com/ find a mirror close to you...throw that apt line in...apt-get install task-kde
if you want 2.1 beta packages you need to add a "beta" to the end of the apt line.
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
While I agree on the first point to some degree (particularly with package updating systems), I think you are confused about your second point. Nautilus is a file manager. Evolution is a mail client.
--Ben
Er, actually, they're both bitchin, and the flamewar is over.
,can we start creating desktop environments that actually match most desktop users, i.e., for people that choose aps based on quality rather than toolkit religion? I use KDE, Konqueror, and most of my other apps happen to GNOME based. This is because, to my own taste, Konqueror is the best fiel manager, and the (gnome based) rp3 is the best dial up tool.
Damned straight. Now we know that neither KDE or GNOME are about to go anywhere soon
* There's no (combined) style guide, so my kde apps shortcuts don't work in GNOME. And the common dialogues in both look completely different.
* There's no combined mime types, though I am told this is coming.
* The toolkits theme differently, so I configure the look and feel of one set of apps in a different place to another
* DND still doesn't work all the time. My respect goes out to whoever can prove me wrong by dragging a file out of a Konq FTP session onto a GNOME desktop. Yes, I've reported the bug. No, it hasn't been fixed.
* I can't have GNOME panel apps on my KDE panel, and vbice versa
* Package maintainers have to put apps in seperate directories for KDE and GNOME menus. Users have to update and manage them both.
* Eazel services tells me about nifty apps for any tollkit of desktop environment as long as its not QT or KDE. KDE calls GNOME `legacy' in their theme importer. And various other childish actions on both sides.
* Differing icon standards mean icons from apps designed around different desktop environments (not that this should ever be the case) look poor in another.
--Ben
Yes, Nautilus is a lot faster nowadays and Eazel is still profiling and working on performance issues. On my box (AMD K6-2 450 Mhz with 256 Mb RAM) it's quite fast. There are a few areas that are still a tad sluggish. Opening a new window takes long enough to make it annoying to wait and my home directory which has quite a few directories and files also takes a while to load. Once it does load the first time, though, things move along at a good pace.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
While I agree on the first point to some degree (particularly with package updating systems), I think you are confused about your second point. Nautilus is a file manager. Evolution is a mail client.
I believe he ment that installing Nautilus updated the libs that Evolution required, and now Evolution doesn't work.
"I'll take the red pill. No! Blue! AAAaaaahhhhhhhhh"
- Monty Python meets the Matrix
there is a nice demo mode which you can test
Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, root@localhost and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error log
Doesn't look a bit like Mac OS X to me.
Or do you mean that little irrelevent company from Redmond?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- Jeff
You can get the AA stuff working right now, but it takes a bit of fiddling. It is to do with patching QT to use the Xrender extensions available in Xfree86 4.0.2. Since KDE uses QT for drawing etc, it automatically benefits from it.) There are a few guides for it around the place, and I'm pretty sure there's one in the archives at www.mandrakeforum.com (though it may be a bit MDK specific). You need to be running Xfree86 4.0.2 with the Xrender/Freetype2 stuff set up right. and then patch + compile QT yourself IIRC. The screenshots I've seen are pretty darn swet though!
QT has known about the need for mulitple monitor support for several years now. I have requested it to be added, but just got the standard "We'll evaluate your request" form letter. I talked with one of the KDE developers and he had worked on a hack to get it to work, but it was just that, a hack.
I know we have a lot of zealotry and a lot of 'we must have *this*' for linux to be successful rants. But, for a window manager not to be able to support varying desktop configurations - that's unacceptable. In fact I use dual head everyday (on Irix) and I feel that this way of using your computer is going to become more mainstream than QT is anticipating. It's very nice. And with the price of a 19 inch and a GeForceMX so cheap, it's hard not to deny the urge and upgrade your standard linux box.
I don't know if it's a QT backwards compatibility issue, or what. But *please*, everyone who deems multi-monitor support important (especially in KDE), drop an email to Trolltech (the QT guys) and let them know.
"Flamebait"?????
How is "I'm a long-time programmer and I actually find many of KDE's features helpful", "KDE won't cause a shortage of crypto development", and "It's not just for newbies anymore" classified as "Flamebait"?
I, on the other hand, am more of a "grovelling newbie" *nix programmer, but I find KDE handy as well. If kwrite had a native "HTML with PHP" highlight mode I'd be in heaven (meanwhile I can get by using PERL highlight mode for php, which works reasonably well, until Quanta+ is out of beta...)
Or is that "Flamebait" too?
---
"They have strategic air commands, nuclear submarines, and John Wayne. We have this"
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
I think you are confused about your second point. Nautilus is a file manager. Evolution is a mail client.
No, he's not confused. The specific library theya re talking about is bonobo - to install the latest versions of evolution or nautilus, you inevitably need a newer version on bonobo, which breaks one or the other. I can't speak for this preview release, but to install evolution, I had to install a newer version of bonobo which broke nautilus.
Remember the Netscape Constellation project back in umm.. 1997 I think.. It was rumored to become a part of Netscape Communicator 4.0 and it was to integrate the OS shell, your browser, your push channels (heh) and your calendar. Netscape was going to build it with HTML, Java and JavaScript - a "platform" they called "Netscape ONE" as in Open Network Environment.
Then NS4 came but there was no Constellation. Instead, and I think it didn't even come right away, there was Netcaster, a crappy app put together in a hurry, made from signed JavaScript, Java applets and HTML, that received Marimba and HTML channels. Microsoft quickly followed with IE4 that had true desktop and OS integration to the browser, and a solid push implementation (not that it mattered, since push was dead at birth).
Desktop integration has never really been a big thing, though it lives on in Windows OS's. What HAS been successful is Windows OS's sharing the Explorer app (think "file manager") with the web browser. Directories can be customized using HTML files in just about any way you want.
Some 3 years later, Nautilus arrives on Linux. What I would like to know is what it does differently (better?) than IE/Explorer or Constellation. Does it also copy/inherit from other similar systems that I fail to remember and mention? I know it embeds Mozilla, which means it can probably also easily embed another browser Konqueror.. but then again, the same is true for the Microsoft shell, as IE is just an ActiveX component.. So.. what's new? What's good? What's better?
I assumed that it was "linux file manipulation for newbies" (ie, cp, rm, ls etc)
I use and like the command line for all file manipulation. But curiosity got the better of me, so I downloaed it. Here are my impressions:
I doesn't get any better looking than this - georgous comes to mind.
Downlaod and install was smooth as silk. Eazal is offering 25mb of online storage for free??? - sign me up!
Browser, file manager, file preview, network access, etc. all in one! Damn, that's cool! I bet it evan does ftp???
Did I mention how pretty it is?
I always felt that the Eazal folks were doing good work - I just assumed I wouldn't want to use it. I WAS WRONG! This puppy just got added to my "gota have it" list. In fact, instead of replacing Netscape 4.x with Mozilla (which I was gong to do when the remove all the debugging code from mozilla), I'm thinking of using Nautilus as a full time browser instead. So far it works better than either of the others do (IMHO).
If you haven't checked it out, I'd recommend it 100%.
Keep up the good work Eazel!
Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)
It's only been up on /. for TEN MINUTES and the demos on the site are already hosed? sheesh. Don't you peeps ever sleep? 8)
Nautilus is going to be really sweet when I get around to installing 'Nux on my Be machine.
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
This is obviously my personal experience, but Nautilus PR 1 and 2 had some serious performance and stability issues. I've had PR3 crash a few times, and it still takes too damn long to open new windows, but its definitely worth trying. There is no comparison between this release and the previous two, IMHO.
Also, if you have a 500MHz computer, be sure to turn OFF "smoother but slower graphics"
---
Hm... I guess you cannot just keep throwing new software to a P200 and expect the new software to let your old hardware to do things that wasn't possible before.
"Argh, Linux does not run on my 286!!" Well, we have to leave some hardware behind. More simultaneous new features = more computing power needed.
For something runnable on a P200 96MB however, try IceWM and DFM. It gives you a crude desktop environment that's like Windows 95 that takes minimal computing resources. (it is the default desktop for Vector Linux)
Hm...are you using the debug version of QT? You can recompile KDE and QT without the debug info and they'll be a lot faster, or so I heard.
you can also do a strip --strip-debug on the binaries and see if it gets any better. Just remember don't do a --strip-all to the libs.
--Ben
Hi,
I know kde has been experimenting with anitaliased fonts and have a working preview. When can we expect this to be integrated in one of the betas ?
When can we expect anything anti-aliased from the gnome/xfree camps ? IMHO this is one of the main missing features of desktop linux (along with the lack of a sorenson codec).
I am still concerned about Nautilus's lack of support for the .desktop file standard. *.desktop files are the standard for program launchers in both GNOME and KDE. Nautilus uses it's own file format for launchers on the desktop.
.desktop file for localization. You can specify if a program needs to run in a terminal, or what programs to use to open, edit, or view a file. The same format is used for urls.
.nautilus-metafile.xml. It also gets a "no write" emblem. The name that appears under the icon is the actual file name of the symlink (bad for localization). There is no way to specify that a program needs to run in a terminal. An entirely different format is used for urls, and this time the icon is specified in the file, not in .nautilus-metafile.xml.
.desktop files specify an icon, a program to launch or url to open, and the text label and tooltip for more information. The translations for the text labels are contained in the
Nautilus's system is inconsistent and incoherent. Dragging a program from the GNOME menu makes a symlink to the excutable program. The icon is specified in
I am not just complaining. I test Nautilus on a daily basis and file bug reports. I think this is a design problem that has been overlooked and is of greater importance than some people at Eazel believe. I sincerely want Nautilus to be the best file manager / desktop environmant possible.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
However, icons can be removed and the toolbars can be made smaller by choosing "tiny" in the toolbar config.
I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (evil tone) Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
hmmmm...whats the name of that corporation that "cannot innovate"? You know, the one that spends millions of dollars to test and design a nice little interface that functions just fine for both grandma's and sys-admins alike.
hmmmmm...
All I want is a good, fast file manager. One that doesn't have huge ugly icons in a huge ugly toolbar and NO BLOODY SIDEBARS .
Why is it that all File Management work on Linux is geared to making everything as unpleasant to use as Windows? I can see an argument for making things easy for converts from Windows but surely not every single project has to start with someone saying "Okay, let's see how Microsoft does it."
What really gets me is the waste of talent; these guys mostly seem to be pretty good programmers. Although they could do with trying to run their code on a sub 1GHz machine with 64Mb of RAM every once in a while.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I like Nautilus. It feels good to use, and it's pretty to look at. But there's a few things that bother me.
Nautilus does some pretty spiffy anti-aliased text using libart; it should be even spiffer when GDK is set up to use the Render extension (slated for GTK 1.2.9, I think).
It would also be nice if Nautilus was using Gecko stripped of XUL and made to use GTK, rather than all of Mozilla embedded.
And it would be nice if Helix^W Ximian and Eazel would get together on their libs. Nautilus killed Evolution.
That said, it's looking good, actually installs, runs reasonably fast, and hasn't crashed!
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Odd. I'm running 2.0.1 on an ancient P-100 laptop with 48MB and no L2 cache. I would describe its performance there as "adequate". It's still faster and more useful than the Windows 95 it replaced on that machine...
If you haven't tried it already, you might try recompiling QT with the "-fno-exceptions" switch (which solved the "huge and slow" problem for me when I saw someone else post that in a much earlier article - thanks, whoever you were!)
---
"They have strategic air commands, nuclear submarines, and John Wayne. We have this"
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
I'm not certain, but I kind of got the impression that KOffice was included with KDE2 mainly to get more people jumping up and down on it to test it, and so people in the "mainstream" would be able to see that KOffice existed. It seemed like they are leaving it out of the newer "current releases" simply because it's not QUITE ready for "prime time" (though it seems to be coming along nicely. KWord's not so hot at the moment, relatively speaking, but KIllustrator seemed nice during what little I played with it. I also notice that Kivio is now in the KOffice snapshots...).
Personally, I can cope. I can deal with StarOffice 5.2 for now until KWord is "ready". (Side note - does anybody know if "OpenOffice 6" can export/save as postscript files? That'd give me a way around the lack of a print function, and I could try it out...)
---
"They have strategic air commands, nuclear submarines, and John Wayne. We have this"
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
Why would anyone use Gnome? Granted, they done alot of work, and it looks pretty good, but KDE is better for so many reasons. They were the first ones to create a full desktop enviroment. It looks far better than any version of Gnome does, too. Also, they have done so much for the community, creating projects like KOffice, KDevelop, kPPP, and KWM; Gnome just can't compete!
Why would anyone use KDE? Granted, they done alot of work, and it looks pretty good, but Gnome is better for so many reasons. They were the first ones to create a full free desktop enviroment. It looks far better than any version of KDE does, too. Also, they have done so much for the community, creating projects like Gimp, Gnumeric, GnuCash, and Sawfish; KDE just can't compete!
Er, actually, they're both bitchin, and the flamewar is over. I think you (and all the other morons who actually debate this issue) lost. This is why the Ninjas vs. Pancakes debate was created on Slashdot, that way the trolls would have a worthwhile subject to debate that could easily be automatically modded down to -2 via regex.
---