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Auto-Suicide for Grey Market Electronics?
Atomic Snarl writes "For those of you breathing fast and hard about user rights after the purchase, what would you think if your TV/VCR/Cellphone/Dishwasher would die if you moved it out of an "authorized usage area?" Got a great boom box bargan on your last visit to Hong Kong, but now it won't work in Cleveland? Yuk! Read the New Scientist article to find out about a GPS chip design intended to kill your unit if it isn't supposed to be marketed in your area!" The implications are wide-ranging and unpleasant.
Fun happens >:)
If the software industry was a car dealer, every major software publisher would be in jail for fraud. Misrepresenting a lease as a sale *IS* fraud in every jurisdiction in the country. It puzzles me how "content owners" can claim that they are protecting "property rights" when it appears to me that they are intent mostly upon removing *MY* property rights. The Constitution provides for copyright law. Copyright law grants "content owners" the right to restrict duplication and redistribution of copies, but does not otherwise infringe upon my property rights. But it appears that these bogus "shrink wrap" licenses (after-the-fact post-sales "click this" deals) are soon to be legally enforcible as the law of the land.
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
When I began my electronics career 25 years ago, Motorola was the premeir supplier of semiconductor devices. They also made some of the finest VHF radios available. The first microprocessor I worked with was the 6800. Their applications notes were top notch. To say that I had immense respect for Motorola was an understatement.
By the mid 90s, all this changed when Motorola was taken over by bean counting MBAs who began to jettison less profitable product lines. They all but abandoned the power semiconductor market, announcing their intent to focus on the more lucrative CPU market. This was a harbinger of things to come. Now, it seems they are searching for new ways bolster their profits.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
The funniest thing I find about it, is that it causes me to always flush twice!!
Yeah...but you probably take a piss more than a dump, especially if you are like my wife. That way it's 1.5L instead of 6L or whatever each time that you whiz.
Sure, a "killer application" may take a couple of flushes, but overall, it still works out to less water.
Pfft. Capitalism is great, but the players in it suffer from feedback.
Remember, the goal of society permitting a capitalistic system (there may indeed be a better, though undiscovered one - never know) is to encourage efficiency through competition.
It's a lot like free speech; rather than declare any one idea right, it must compete against other ideas, expecting that good ones will bubble up. (of course a student of memes will expect slightly different results) Even if MS were the best software house ever, it would be foolish to trust that it is the best software house possible, or that this was caused by it's monopoly.
The goal of the businesses operating in a capitalistic system however is to make a profit. Generally at the expense of the competition. Eliminating them entirely is in fact ideal. Not for the system of course, but for the self-interested person in the system.
Without systems in place to encourage competition, and supress monopolies, they will triumph.
What happens when a group of companies forms a cartel? Well, they can pool their resources. And they can employ natural or create artificial barriers to entry to deny the market to competitiors. Tactical lawsuits certainly would seem to be a good method if nothing else works. Make your competitors burn through all their money and establish legal precedents to keep the rest in check.
Not to mention that even if the small competitors (which are tolerated at best like tickbirds and never normally allowed to grow) do manage somehow to be a real threat to the monopoly, it has no interest in helping you. Better if it too is part of the monopoly, or destroys the first only to install one of its own.
I agree that the government has been culpable, but your precious businesses are acting as expected. Using ANY means necessary to succeed. If that means buying off the government, they'd be happy to do so, and are known for it historically anyway.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
So all they need is a module that'll detect that the VCR is connected to a cable system that offers 100+ channels but nothing good on any of them and it'll know it's in the U.S.?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
They can force you to buy it the same way that they'll force you to buy all those internet connected refrigerators and microwaves that'll order groceries you don't want. They won't make any other kind and they'll make replacement parts for the older ones prohibitively expensive.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
It is more accurate to say that technology tends to serve the interests of the party that develops it. "Good" and "evil" aren't very useful concepts in that analysis.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that *most* people buying DVD's in Australia understand CSS, but a fair proportion do, as ordering DVDs from the US well before video release here is quite popular. It's gotten to the point where even the chain stores were openly advertising some of their units as "multi-zone" ;)
New Zealand have gone even further, every DVD player shipped there *must* be multi-zone, IIRC, because the monopolies commission could smell the distinct odor of rat coming from the movie industry :)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
How about POP TARTS???
--
Ah, but when WWIII comes and the military blocks the signals, you'll get automatic energy conservation for the war effort. Probably get a good deal of scrap metal too as people toss the shit out.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
One potentially useful applications might be in devices that broadcast RF, like cellphones or wireless networking stuff. A particular RF band licensed for use in one country might be reserved for, say, medical devices in another. With built-in GPS, your device could automatically switch frequency bands or shut off if it is moved into an area where it is prohibited.
Wouldn't that be more like:
I. ALL YOUR TOAST ARE BELONG TO US!
(snicker)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Sorry, the consumer looses again.
No, the American consumer loses again.
For all the bullshit that is spouted about these corporate marketing restrictions existing to "foster innovation", the truth is anywhere outside the US you're pretty likely to come across a TV that takes PAL/NTSC/SECAM, a region-free DVD player, a Macrovision-free VCR, and a multi-mode cell phone with global roaming (not to forget the dirt-cheap HDTV flat widescreen TVs we are told are "prohibitively expensive")...
---------------------------------------------
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
This article on the New Scientist web site discusses marine parks to preserve fish stocks. It demonstrates how marine parks increase fish catches in areas outside the parks and advocates an increase in their number.
Fishing vessels could have this GPS chip installed in them. The chip could then shut down the fishing equipment when the vessel was within a marine park, or in an area where the vessel is not supposed to be, such as the territorial waters of another country.
Governments could make it mandatory as a condition of the fishing licence for this chip to be installed and working properly. There is the likelihood that old vessels without the chip could fish illegally. The best way of deterring and combatting this would be for such vessels to be scuttled when detected, and only catches from certified compliant vessels having access to the best fish markets.
Such measures may sound draconian, but they may ultimately be necessary. At present fish stocks the world over are being overexploited: one estimate I have heard recently puts the annual catch of the world fishing fleet at 40% more than the level needed to maintain stocks.
However, installing this sort of technology in consumer electronics to serve no higher purpose than protecting the profits of the manufacturers will ultimately result in lower profits for the manufacturers. Not all manufacturers will opt to licence this technology, and they could gain market share because of it. There are also countries in the world with a good manufacturing base who would not allow this technology to be employed. Globalisation and free trade could also see such technology being made illegal, so expect a lot of bribes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H lobbying by major corporations to ensure that such technology is legal.
We seem to be rapidly moving towards a corporate-run police state, with all the dire consequences that such a state will bring. A worst-case scenario would see the majority of the Western world's population enslaved by profiteering corporations within 50 years. (You Must Spend All Your Income To Make The Corporation Richer. This Is Where You Will Go Today. You May Not Do Anything That May Compromise Corporate Profit. Work Shall Make You Free.) The sooner the general public is made aware of all this restrictive technology, the better off we will be in the future.
Finally, I have a short reading list that you may find useful.
George Orwell, "1984".
Ray Bradbury, "Fahrenheit 451".
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
But you don't mind me using the word "kaflooey" in the same sentence?
Funny thing is, you don't get to decide what is and is not a word. If I use it and you understand it, it's ia word whether you like it being one or not.
Kevin Fox
--
Kevin Fox
Fact is, if something like this is implemented, within a week you'll see "GPS Signal Squelchers", and / or "Short Range GPS Transmitters" to fool your dishwasher into thinking it's still in Cambodia. I think development of this type of gps technology is good, as is most development. But if it's being used for no-good, then people will just take the power back. That's our theme here at Slashdot isn't it?
GPS is going to be ultra cheap very soon. I worked for a company that has a one chip + antennae gps solution, and the antennae can be wound pretty tight if you're willing to give up some performance (which for simple needs devices like this would be acceptable). You can get the whole package into about a 2x2 inch area for a cost that will come down into the $5 range as soon as they produce them in large numbers. $5 is still high for an addon to consumer equipment, but at least for high end gear (anything over $300 retail) it is probably feasible, and the cost will
obviously keep coming down, particularly once they can wind or fractal the antennae onto the chip.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Actually, my understanding is that the low-flow toilets are 1.5 gallons per flush... and when I've done some major, uh, business, two flushes is lucky...
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
We don't even need to do that. If Sony puts it in the PS2's, Saddam's weapons program will be set back years.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
... things like this only work where there is a very strong monopoly on a particular technology. the fact is, if all major producers of TVs band together and support this technology in a do-or-die fashion, there will be hundreds of upstarts from china, korea, even the US, who will happily jump in and provide what consumers want.
because the big companies are usually not willing to risk everything (literally) for a relatively small gain like controlling grey markets. what surprises me is that they try it over and over again.
the RIAA's/Napster conflict is different. the RIAA (thinks it) becomes obsolete with Napster, so it has to stage an all-or-nothing war. and even there, Bertelsmann is there to try and spoil the party. capitalism - sometimes it works.
nik
ps: Motorola, get back to speed up those PowerPCs! God, this company is lame...
Doesn't snaptrack inherently depend on information sent and received from servers through the cellular network (i.e. what satellites are up, etc?)
Sorry, GPS doesn't work indoors.
It might work for the cell phones, but not
for the TV's. The TV's would require off-air
antennas for the broadcast signal.
Let's look at DIVX.
I'm sure Motorola, et.al., have. They will be smarter with the introduction. They will not advertise the presence of the devices. This will not be a problem for most people, and the first few who complain will find a call to tech support will get them a replacement. Remember, most people don't know about country coding for DVDs now, because most people don't travel overseas very often. Only after the use of these devices have become very ingrained in business will Motorola open discuss what they are doing.
I always thought the American environmental regulations controlling toilet flow creating a black market in old toilets was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of
The funniest thing I find about it, is that it causes me to always flush twice!! That is, I use more water with the new 'water efficient' models than I did with the old 'use enough water to make sure it all goes down' types. Mark this down to the laws of unintended conseqences. Not only will the market for used A/V equipment open up, but people will be a lot more willing to buy an off brand TV made in some no-name Mexican plant using dated technology.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
True.. in the grand scheme of things, aircraft navigation and auto crashes are more important than the operability of my toaster, but if there was a problem with the GPS system, my airbag would still inflate and the pilots would still manage to get the plane to its destination.
And this doesn't even get into more likely problems. I've never owned any GPS devices before, but how well do they work when you're inside a building, or underground? My CD player doesn't care where in the world I am, but if it had as much trouble operating as my cell phone does when I'm in the basement, we may see other problems even when the GPS system IS functioning perfectly.
Play with my webcams and lights here
what, did Talkie Toster meet a lawyer?
- The price is fair (only 40% as useful? then 40% the price)
- An uncrippled version is available for purchase at the original price
But I'm pretty sure that as soon as crippled songs/dishwashers/kitchen-sink become available, the costs for the crippled versions will be unreasonable if you stop and think about it for a second (but few people will), and the uncrippled version won't be available except through questionable vendors.My point is... the use of technology to produce "lesser" products isn't evil... but the use of technology by large companies to gain more control over consumers and squeeze more money out of them is. Just don't knee-jerk about a particular technology.
--
Unlike software, where most companies routinely get away with "license" terms that deny the implied warranty of "fitness for a particular purpose", hardware manufacturers have to see to it that what they sell you works, and if it doesn't you get your money back.
SO, if you buy a Sony walkman in Tokyo, and it torches itself when you step off a plane in Vancouver, Sony owes you a refund, and you can take it up with your local consumer protection agency. Every US state and Canadian province has them.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Moderate this up. I am still amazed by those who believe that government is the solution to corporate abuses, when these abuses are only possible because the government rewrites the law to favor itself and certain businesses at the expense of consumers. Region coding and CSS would be non-issues if they weren't legally enforceable with the DMCA. Many privacy concerns today would not exist if the US government had not prevented the widespread use of encryption. Then there's the Sonny Bono copyright extension act, the Communications Decency Act, Echelon, and the list goes on. The government and both major parties have a very poor record of protecting our rights, and giving them more power is the last thing I would do.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Yeah, but why would anyone buy something that had such bad reliability?
First DVDs, now electronics.
:-(
WTF?
If I bought it, *why* can't I *use* it wherever I go?!
Can someone explain the rationale for dvd region codes? (Aside from the obvious answer of "money"
You are missing my point. Just by silently boycotting, you aren't getting your point across, whatever your particular point is. The RIAA and MPAA folks are misinterpreting your actions and that leads them to doing things that aren't going to address your concerns.
It's sort of like the Florida vote. I've cast blank ballots in protest before but I'll think twice about doing it now since it's been labelled OK for some tea leaf reader down at county election to 'interpret' my blank ballot as really voting for X.
DB
in a freak accident takes out one of the GPS satellites. Every bit of consumer electronics in the 'North American Marketing Region' immediately shuts down
Nice joke, nice theory, but that's not how GPS works. There are up to 30 satellites, including spares, in orbit. The receiver needs to have line of sight to three of them to pinpoint latitude and longitude. My receiver usually can see six or more, giving altitude and redundancy.
Also, to the other jokester who commented that military scrambling could break devices who depend on GPS, the military SA (Selective Ability) feature just degrades the accuracy, it would not render GPS totally offline. It could, in extreme scenarios, but too many USA forces depend on non-military-enabled consumer GPS units.
[
No, I did say that in severe cases, they can turn it off. It was in fact during Operation Desert Storm that they tried tuning SA for best military advantage, but they reversed themselves.
First, our own forces didn't have enough milspec GPS units available, so they had relatives mailing over civilian Garmins and Magellans. Second, the Iraqis didn't have much in the way of GPS, so they decided to kill SA so our forces could use civilian GPS signals.
SA is also targetable to terrain: if they want the satellites to remain mum over Bosnia, it won't hurt your Garmin receivers in Texas one bit. That's the "selective" in "SA".
[
Everyone crys out foul whenever some scheme like this is hatched. But everyone always forgets that WE, the technology lovers, the ones who are the first in line to buy (or at least take a look at) new devices, are the ones that determine the success or failure of new technology. We adopt these new things early on and (if they are good), reccommend them to out non-technology-saavy friends are relatives. Where would DVD be if, back in 1997, we weren't first in line to buy both consumer and computer DVD players, drives, and other hardware? It would be a niche product that wouldn't have the sales volume it has today (sort of like laserdisc), despite all of Hollywood's hype.
So, the solution is not to buy new products that have restrictions on them. Pure and simple.
And, if by change, they work their way into existing products, BUG THE HELL OUT OF THE MANUFACTURERS with constant "It doesn't work" calls and letters. Make it no longer cost effective to produce them.
There's one major difference between technologies like this and DivX. DivX was intrusive, annoying and obvious. Something like this is not advertised, except in fine print somewhere that says you can't use it in a country outside where you bought it.
Further, the difference between DivX and something like this is that DivX affected what most people did normally. I don't know that many people that transport dishwashers between countries. Most people I know buy their dishwashers in the US and use them there. These people would not care if their dishwasher would not work in Hong Kong because they don't intend to take it there!
Mmmm.. Donuts
They want the best of both worlds. They want to be able to use cheap third world labor and slack third world environmental laws to cheaply create products that they can sell in different parts of the world, for the maximum price that that part of the world will pay.
They want to stop us from importing electronics, movies, CD's and such from parts of the world where they sell the exact same items for 1/2 the price.
Free trade is not something the common man is supposed to be able to take advantage of. It is supposed to be something the corps can use to increase their profits.
Against intellectual property chapter three of Information Liberation
Need a website host? Try out http://WebQualityHost.net
Putting these chips in phones sort of kills the idea behind international roaming doesn't it? I can't see the mobile phone service providers being happy with this.
International roaming is one of their highest profit activities.
"Do you think we could wipe out world hunger forever if scientists figured out how to make AOL's Free CD's edible?"-
I agree it seems like it should be easy to jam. Which would then make these little jamming devices (which would probably be programmable for any area) ubiquitous. That would then cause a lot of havoc for the ever more legitimate uses of GPS, which in turn, would lead to the knee-jerk reaction by government, to outlaw the GPS jammers. So we would end up criminals again, just for trying to use legitimately purchased electronic equipment. Sucks to be us.
Definately not a pretty scenerio.
My guess is that the regional encodeing will not be integrated into larger chips (at least at first) so it may be possible to by-pass them on the circuit board, without having broadcasting a pirate GPS signal.
Also isn't there some type of encryption/error checking, etc involved with the sign itself? Otherwise what is to prevent a rogue nation from intercepting/jamming/spoofing our GPS signals?
I image a scenerio where the little broadcast chip is taped onto a watch battery, and put into some type of "buckshot" arrangemnt dropped over urban areas, or some other strategic place.
I cannot image the engineers who built the system would have made it so vulnerable. But since I know abosultely nothing at all about how GPS works, I am just speculating, and so I am probably way off base. So if someone more knowledgable would enlighten me I would be gratefule.
Thanks,
MS2k
Man, stuff like this keeps moving me closer and closer to just buying a hi-fi stereo integrated-amplifier instead of a surround receiver.
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise.
Except in the case of NTSC vs. PAL and CDMA/TDMA/GSM/CDPD, etc., the fragmenting was haphazard and the result of different areas using incompatible standards. The difference here is that it's NOT an incompatible standard, in fact, it's a very uniform, world-wide standard on how to artificially create regions. The first has no clear malice of forethought, while DVD encoding and this Motorola GPS system are very specifically designed with the malicious creation of artificial market segments in mind. The former is bad for consumers, but not illegal. The latter is bad for consumers, and highly illegal. I just wish someone in Washington would figure that out, since they seem to have missed the threat to free trade that AOL/TimeWarner/Netscape/Mirabilis poses, and that other cartels such as the MPAA and RIAA pose. Yeah, Microsoft is up there, but the cartels are even more dangerous.
--GrouchoMarx
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
For the record a cartel is defined as "a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition or fix prices." (Mirriam-Webster Online)
Now, regionalization schemes do what? (Be it CSS, Motorola's GPS system, or something else.) They divide up the market so that companies can charge different prices in different areas. That is, fix prices. The fact that we haven't broken up the MPAA and RIAA is already a disgrace, as they are some of the most obvious and blatant cartels in American history, but if we allow companies to now segment ALL products into market regions? Californians have more money than Kentuckians, on average, so lets charge twice as much for a washing machine in California than Kentucky, even though it's cheaper to ship them there. "What the market will bear" and all of that jazz.
"Free market" capitalism is one of those things that works really nice on paper, but in the real world fails miserably. What's to stop competitors from joining forces into a cartel? Absolutely nothing. Oh, wait, except the government who can stop them through the legal system. But we can't have that, that would be socialism which is synonimous with demon spawn, right? And no, you can't "vote with your dollars" and go elsewhere, because there is no elsewhere to go. That's the whole point of a cartel. And no, you can't start up your own company, because the cost of entry in the modern marketplace is so high. Add to that the licensing costs of using technology to be compatible, and you have yourself an impenitrable cartel. (You don't like CSS and want to make DVDs without it? Sorry, they won't be compatible unless you sign agreements with the patent/copyright holders, the MPAA, who will require you to play by their rules and become one of them.)
I know there's a strong anti-government sentiment in this country and on Slashdot in particular, but I offer you a choice: The government you pick in the voting booth (buying an election only works if people like you are dumb enough to vote for the best commerical rather than the best candidate) and have control over and is YOUR GOVERNMENT, or a consortium of a few rich individuals who are answerable to no one but their own bottom line and who are indoctrinated to screw you over if they possibly can.
I don't know about you, but it's an easy choice for me. It's time to start busting some trusts left and right, starting with the MPAA, moving on to AOL/TimeWarner, any company that incorporates this "market division" technology, and just keep right on going. Splitting the compaines up should encourage competition, which is supposedly a good thing, right?
Ah, Teddy Roosevelt, where are you when we need you?
--GrouchoMarx
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
For those of you breathing fast and hard about user rights after the purchase, what would you think if your TV/VCR/Cellphone/Dishwasher would die if you moved it out of an "authorized usage area?" Got a great boom box bargan on your last visit to Hong Kong, but now it won't work in Cleveland? Yuk!
Sounds a lot like region coding on DVDs. Take your DVD outside zone X, and it won't work any more. Just imagine what an uproar there would be if TVs/VCRs/Cellphones/etc. did this as well.
---
Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
Honestly, this technology could be used for many other things. Military electronics and the such could be set to self destruct over time, so that things like The Sum of All Fears by Tom Clancy can't take place when terrorists find things lying around. However, this technology should stay out of the civilian area.
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
When the industry does something like this, you have two choices. If the equipment, along with its restrictions, is worth the price to you, then you go buy it. If not, then you don't. Simple as that. I've never heard anywhere that anyone somehow has a god-given right to equipment without content controls.
If this poses a problem to enough people, (which companies will notice by people not buying their products), then somebody will get the bright idea to manufacture the machines without the controls. It's obvious that hardware manufacturers don't particularily care about maintaining control; they just want the money. Maybe they'll charge more for equipment without content controls; it will be up to you consumers to decide whether it's worth the price or not.
The biggest argument I see here is that, "But soon, I won't be able to buy [insert topic of slashdot article here] without [insert control being discussed here]." So what? Even if that's true (and I tend to doubt it, as for the most part companies haven't had much luck convincing consumers that they need to be controlled more), that shouldn't effect you. If the reduced utility or infringement on your 'rights' makes it not worth having, don't buy it.
The problem is that most of the posters here won't follow up on what they say. Not only will they not make their thoughts known to the hardware manufacturers, but when the newest toy shows up, who will be first in line? Businesses exist to make money, and the people here provide a substantial amount of what goes to any sort of tech industry.
Sorry for the long and probably senseless ramble ... but I think it has to be said once, so you'll all have something to jeer at.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Heh ... now what would be useful would be if weapons manufacturers started using something like this... "Sure, Saddam, we'll sell you any missiles you want." Then, as soon as the weapons are fired...
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Cookiecutters they would work better and not be nearly as messy and we should give them to the "elected" people to same conditions. :)
If you don't get the above go read "The Diamond Age" and then talk to me.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
I can just see it now... All hotel towels will have little tags reading Warning: This towel will burst into flames if you remove it from the hotel.
Great, let's all boycott controlled devices! Sounds good to me! Only it's A.D. 2048, and there ain't no such thing anymore. So, what are you going to do? Give in and get one, or keep up your boycott at all costs? You can probably do without a TV, given the crap that TV programming has turned into, and you can even do without a dishwasher if you don't mind getting your hands dirty every once in a while. But how about your fridge? Will you walk to the store every day for your food--not that you'd have anything to cook it on except your old charcoal grill--or will you build yourself an "unencumbered" bicycle and hope that the authorities don't come and take it away before it breaks down of its own accord?
Or will you just give in and get a fridge with one of those nifty two-way TV screens on it?
--
BACKNEXTFINISHCANCEL
They aren't just using GPS, however. It sounds like they are contemplating other signals to determine location. TV signals, radio signals, or some other kind of signals could be used, if the signal is different enough to determine the area it is being used in. Don't think of the weaknesses of GPS reception, think of radio and TV reception.
What is the impact? If you want to buy cheap electronics from some other country, electronics you could buy in the U.S. at a higher price, you'll have to take other actions, such as modifying the equipment, sheilding your house, or other drastic measures.
It seems a little counter-intuitive. Only the "cheaper" version needs protection, but the cost will go up with the addition of protective devices, lowering the demand for the cheaper version. Free-trade areas like WTO and EU seem to be against it. The only benefit seems to be in the area of consumer electronics like Playstations, where regional sales tactics may already be in place, and there is already a healthy market in moding these boxes. Healthy, but it is a minority market - most people won't go through the trouble of ordering from China and waiting a month if they can pick up the same thing, 10% more, at the local store.
Just the problems this would cause the government. At least in the cases where they move their employees around. Not to mention the private sector.
_________________________ Visit me at http://pornforcomputers.com
It is a bad idea to make devices fry themselves permanently if they do not constantly recieve a GPS signal. Realisticly, at the very worst the device will cease to operate until it begins recieving the GPS signal again. This still sucks, but it's not QUITE as bad.
I seriously doubt a system in which devices permanently fry themselves as soon as there is a lapse in the GPS signal are what they intend to implement.
I don't see them getting away with this one though. There are far too many things that could go wrong.
If they can make a GPS engine cheap enough to throw into a VCR to enable this scheme I think I will buy one just for the engine ;)
i didn't purchase the travel license.
fsifhcuierk.
what?
Just think, we'll be driven back to using stuff in antique stores, simply because the greedy bastards won't sell us one without some chip. Back to the future.
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
2. Put this crap in your product and suffer an end around by industries who don't play ball the way you want them. Sony would be able to flex some muscle, as they own music, TV and motion picture rights to a sizeable catalog, but see how well the Mini-Disc is doing if you want a preview of this poorly thought out logic.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Not any more it doesn't.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
Or short those companies as they get sued to death!
Let's look at DIVX. Now there was a product that was needlessly complicated and overly restictive and Circuit City probably lost a bundle when it failed. Who, in the tech community _didn't_ see it coming? Not many, I imagine. I have a feeling that this kind of application of technology could backfire immensely on any companies that choose to use it.
If only it always worked that way. DIVX was stupid. Here's how people play the game now:
1. "Industry standards". Actually a form of collusion, all the makers of HDTVs or DVDs or whatever get together and agree to incorporate anti-consumer technology into all their products. This is illegal, the Justice Department should sue their asses into oblivion, but that isn't gonna happen.
2. Stealth mode. Windows XP will keep playing all my MP3s until MS sends the signal to cut off the "illegal content" - the MP3s I got from MP3.com and my own CDs. You can do this with anything - just install a clock that the user can't modify and give it a fixed date to switch to "control mode".
3. The DMCA. Ruthlessly hunt down anyone who tries to give us our rights back, and declare that they are thieves.
Motorola's on to an interesting marketing gimmick enforcement mechanism. But what about the legal/contract law implications?
For example, If I buy a CD player, will I be required to agree to a license? If I don't agree and the device suicides, will I be able to sue the manufacturer, the distributor, or the retailer? After all, if I buy the device at the local Circuit City but the sales clerk didn't point out the agreement to me, or I bought the device on the gray market, I shouldn't be bound by the terms of the license, should I?
This looks like one more insidious possibility of UCITA shrink-wrap licenses causing grief in the marketplace.
Don't forget to read the unbiased news about UCITA, also (Not that Stallman's opinion doesn't explain enough...).
MacOS, Windows, BeOS, GNOME, KDE: they're all just Xerox copies
Just imagine...
Give's a WHOLE new meaning to the term 'lube job', don't it?
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
A piece of paper inside a toaster box isn't a license, or contract. It's just a factually incorrect statement. Presumably, the arguement behind EULAs holds because the user "signs" the contract by clicking a button.
A contract must be agreed to, for it to be valid. If you don't agree with the contract included in the box, don't accept its terms. The vendor may ask you to return the product; if it does so, simply refuse. If they want it back, they have to pay for it, like you did.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
Or something
I can See It Now(tm).
It's 2012, we get hit by a bad solar flare. A Payload Assist Module accidentally ignites and in a freak accident takes out one of the GPS satellites. Every bit of consumer electronics in the 'North American Marketing Region' immediately shuts down because it is 'out of the authorized market area'. The crowds do go wild - but not in a nice way. The heads of the networks will go up on pikes right alongside the heads of the government for letting em foist the technology on us.
Now that would be a real plot for a disaster movie. But don't come a calling if you are a member of the MPAA. I'll sell the screenplay (already in progress) to an indie.
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
As long as there are acceptable alternatives, the market will avoid stupid products.
If I have a choice between two similar cellphones, one that works everywhere, and one that self-destructs if I take it to Canada, I'll probably choose the non-self-destruct one. But if I'm offered $100 off the self-destruct phone, I might be willing to live with that limitation.
How much of a discount would typical consumers need in order to purchase a limited product? Is the manufacturer's gain in market control worth it?
She should die when she attempts to leave the kitchen.
And if someone spoofs it once, goodbye? I can just see driving round with a spoofing unit set to, say, india, and trashing every appliance in the neighbourhood. It'd be worth doing just once for the sheer havoc you'd cause. How about grand final day, about noon?
Hm. Won't this upset these orgs. I mean, this is hindering of free trade...
Btw, someone will probably _quickly_ find out a standard way of bridging over these chips if they aren't integrated into some other chips ine one dye.
--The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
DIVX consumers were likely to understand how the system worked ("what's that phone line for again?") Newer right-restricting technologies are more cleverly hidden. What percentage of American DVD purchasers do you think understand what region encoding is? I'd wager it's about 20% and getting lower every day. Everything they see for sale is R1 - they don't have to know about it.
Devices like MP3 players are already incorporating content controls - nobody knows they're there. The same will be true of content sensitive HDTVs, speakers, etc. The average consumer will never attempt to "cheat" and will never even be aware of the limitations.
Under these conditions I really don't think consumers will reject content controlling devices.
/* The beatings will continue until morale improves. */
Yeah. Hang them from trees and lead folks around in 4K circles in the woods! Then make wierd noises from off in the distance and leave bundles of twigs and stuff outside their tents every night.
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What would happen if for some reason the GPS network developed a... problem. Say we have an unusually heavy meteor shower, which would cause no undue damage to earth itself but could reign utter havoc on satellites in orbit. Its not inconcievable that enough of the GPS satellites could be disabled that would cause GPS devices on Earth to become disabled. If this were to happen, does this mean that all consumer goods would fail to function until the sats were repaired or replaced?
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
The Anti-Blog
Hmm, if devices 'are programmed to identify the signal transmitted by national broadcasters' then just think what fun you could have with a small radio transmitter and a bit of hacking. Drive around town transmitting codes from another country, and cause everyone electronics to self destruct. Now, better get shares in those electronic manufacturing and retail companies first... then as people rush out to replace their old stuff, sit back and rake in the money.
Power comes from understanding how the technology works and being able to bend it to your will. This is the essence of being a hacker.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
National broadcast signal? How hard would it be for me to either a) block the signal by clipping the antenna so it does not know where its at, or b) jam the signal so none of my nebigors equipment knows where its at. If the unit must know where its at so it can operate all my nebigors will complain when someone jams it, and if it will default to functional then a pair of wire cutters should do the trick.
This scheme will never work.
You would need an antenna capable of receiving the signal, the necessary amplifiers, at least one CDMA correlator, and a microprocessor to drive the show. You would need to find at least one satellite and then download the satellites almanac (keep in mind GPS satellites are no geo-synchronous). From the almanac downloaded from the satellite, and the satellites PN number you could computer a rough idea (probably about 300 miles, I would have to look closer at the specs) of where you are.
What more would you need for a full-blown GPS? Just multiplex the use of the one correlator, and keep track of the relative locations in the PN code. That's mainly just software. So cost wise, there isn't much difference. Sorry.
Better still, your premium can be billed by how much, and how fast, you drive. If you think that having your telephone billed by the second was neat, wait until Allstate and Geiko make GPS transcievers a mandatory feature of being their client.
Things to watch for: A deal between Microsoft and Toshiba that renders Office XP useless on Toshiba laptops when taken into countries where Microsoft software is known to be pirated.
How absolutely fascinating.
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
DVDs will work in any geographic area. They just wont work on players made for that region. If I have a portable Panasonic DVD player, I can take it with me to Europe and still watch my Region 1 discs. If I had one with a zap chip in it, I couldn't use the unit at all outside the area (and depending on how you interpret the article, anywhere else after attempting to do so).
Kevin Fox
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Kevin Fox
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This is terrible. First off, what happens if it can't detect a GPS signal at all? Will it operate? I know GPS doesn't come through many buildings, or any basements.
If the GPS system hiccups, or there's a bug like the 'thousandth week' GPS bug that could have wreaked havoc in 1999, do the boxen all go kaflooey?
Worse yet, considering DGPS uses ground stations, could someone set up a few local area transmitters to give out false readings, selectively destroying hardware in a localized region?
Even worse, what would stop a foreign power from doing the same thing, sending out false GPS from a few of their sattelietes at a specific moment before an attack. When a pager sattelite went down in 1998, US productivity went down 6% (if you really want me to find the link, I will, but this is an statistic). what happens if 70% of the cellphones, radios and televisions all went out at the same time? This sounds like just the FUD tactic any superpower or terrorist organization would love to have.
Bomb an embassy? Bad. Knock out half the TVs in the continental US and you'll have serious consequences.
I'd be as likely to buy something with one of these cips inside it as I would to install a utility on my Linux box that wipes the drive if someone tries to SSH in with the wrong password.
Kevin Fox
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Kevin Fox
I shake my head whenever I see things like this. Companies seem to have the idea that they need to maintain control over products after they have been sold to a customer. Do we need a consumer's bill o' rights? It's obvious that we are basically helpless as consumers to enact any change. All the WTO protests in the world aren't going to change the fact that people _need_ a refridgerator.
I think part of this new concept of control stems from the basic idea of selling software: when you buy software (when you _do_ buy it) you are buying the right to use the software. This is slowly being extended. Now we don't buy the music, we buy the right to listen to it. Soon, will we buy the right to open a fridge?
The concept of ownership is slowly being erroded. We need to do _something_ to ensure that in this next century we have the right to use the products we buy how we choose, even if it doesn't fit into the scope of its intended usage.
We are hearing more and more about technology that will impose capricious and draconian restrictions on what we consumers can do with the products we buy. From the DCMA and its offspring like SDMI, to built-in GPS for region control, to the alleged new CD format that will prevent copying, to digital TV that won't allow the signal to be recorded, to speakers that won't allow unauthorized signals to be played, there are so many new ideas being floated about of ways for companies to "protect their rights" (which also means artifically increase profits and take advantage of helpless customers). The industry's reaction to things like Napster could end up having a terrible effect on people who have never even used it.
When these technologies become incorporated into new CD players, DVD players, VCR's, etc, those products had better offer something so new, so cool, and so revolutionary that people will be willing to submit to Soviet-style restrictions on fair use in order to get them. If that doesn't happen, you can guarantee that savvy customers will boycott the products.
Let's look at DIVX. Now there was a product that was needlessly complicated and overly restictive and Circuit City probably lost a bundle when it failed. Who, in the tech community _didn't_ see it coming? Not many, I imagine. I have a feeling that this kind of application of technology could backfire immensely on any companies that choose to use it.
I always thought the American environmental regulations controlling toilet flow creating a black market in old toilets was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of, just wait until we see old analog A/V equipment becoming more and more of a prized possesion, so people can make reasonable use of the products and software (i.e., music, movies, etc) they buy.
Big Brother is alive and well, but he's currently employed in the private sector.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
I propose implanting these chips into lobbyist's heads, along with a small charge of TNT. We then program the chips to detonate the charge whenever the lobbyist gets within a mile of an elected official.
This, of course, requires we chip elected officials, and continuously monitor their locations. Since this seems to be what they wish to do to us, they should have little problem with experiencing it themselves.
This would also have the side effect of allowing us to locate the positions of bars, brothels, and gambling houses with unprecidented accuracy.
www.eFax.com are spammers
ACME TOASTER 1000 END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
Congratulations on your purchase of a ACME Toaster 1000. Prior to opening and using this toaster, you must read and accept the terms of this agreement.
I. GRANT OF LICENSE.
The EULA gives you the following rights:
II. RESTRICTIONS:
I think this is a great idea, especially for things like aircraft components.
One of the many things I hate. thingsihate.org
hrmm.. except that I can't receive GPS signals indoors on my Garmin GPS receiver. I doubt they're going to put a higher powered receiver in my dishwasher than I've got in my standalone, dedicated GPS receiver.
So I'll just unplug it if I need to take my dishwasher outside for anything...
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