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Bonobo 1.0 released
infodragon writes: "Linuxprogramming.com has an announcment about the release of Bonobo 1.0. " The site has a nice list of the changelog -- I will say that Bonobo has gotten much more...stable over the last couple months. Grats to all who have been working on it.
This mundanium has chosen to repost some text it found in its master's post. Isn't that cute? This specimin looks harmless now, but he'll start with useless messages intended to curry favor with moderators, and soon will grow to be a full-sized adult Troll.
And now, if you'll walk this way, I'd like to show you a recently captured Firstposter, or Canibasmokis Timewastius...
I'm not a "GNOMiE" either. I have major problems with GNOME---but one of them isn't the "grab for branding" that seems to be going on.
Now, I'm also somewhat of a Free Software bigot. And that's mostly the reason I don't have problems with Ximian, RedHat, or Eazel. They're still writing free software. They're funding free software development. As far as I know, most of the GNOME developers are either on the Eazel or Ximian staff anyway, so it is "by the hackers".
GNOME isn't much more than a collection of loosely-related apps using the same toolkit anyway (one of the problems I have with it), but Ximian and Eazel both contribute to this. What's the problem? Now you have a file manager and some better graphics, services, etc. They're GPL'd and stuff, so everyone can benefit. There's no fragmentation as far as I know (two competing standards for a GNOME object model, for instance), so what's the problem?
It would be rather unethical in my opinion if you had a company taking GNOME stuff, adding a few non-Free gizmos, and selling it. But I don't see that happening here. And no one can predict the future, so "yet" is irrelevant. If that time comes, criticize it then.
So, in summary, I think GNOME has problems, but not this one. ;-)
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Link: http://www.ximian.org/tech/bonobo.php3
Bonobo is the GNOME component framework. Gnumeric and Evolution both make heavy use of Bonobo components, which can be reused to solve new problems in the future.
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I'd just like to add that those little critters are damn' tasty roasted, fried or stewed!
You might want to learn about some of the things that I am more excited about Bonobo right now: the Moniker system (basically a name space for Bonobo Objects). It is here: http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/monikers.html
Enjoy,
Miguel.
EEL and GAL are different libraries. They are both libraries that were extracted from existing applications to encourage reuse.
But they are both tied to different time schedules, and there is really little (if any) code duplication.
Both are libraries with unfrozen APIs and both libraries are just stop gap measures while we get the most reusable bits into glib, gtk+ or gnome-libs.
There is hardly any competition at all between gal and eel. They are fully complementary
Miguel.
Then perhaps you should use one of the 44,100 links at Google.
Or the 21,434 links at Altavista.
Or, try "bonobo gnome" and get 332 links at Google, and 21,462 links at Altavista.
Why in the hell should any story that is about a piece of software automatically include a complete recap of what's on the project web site? This is a news site, it's expected that not every single reader will want to view every single story, and that those who do want to view a story will possess at least a modicum of clue.
If not subject-specific clue, then at least the ability to type "www.google.com" into a web browser.
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Bonobos may have a crisis, but humans don't have a crisis related to Bonobos.
99% of all species that have ever existed are gone. Species would be dying out every day (statistically) even if Ogg had never discovered fire.
Evolution has chosen to experiment this time with an adaptation that allows a single species to fill many niches, even filling some of them with non-animals. If humans choose to employ nuclear weapons to win a war, that's no less natural than if a bird chooses to swallow a stone to grind it's food.
If we kill ourselves off, well, evolution is a harsh mistress sometimes. Get over it.
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Ok, go type in "bonobo gnome" like I suggested, and then come back here and tell what percentage of those links are about the primate.
I'll wait.
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It's a component architecture modeled after, you guessed it, COM from those evil guys at Microsoft. (See: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery)
Cheers,
Bonobo is released through the evolution snapshot channel because Evolution depends on it. Bonobo will be available through Ximian's 1.4 channel once that is available. The folks at Ximian are working very hard to get that out the door. Give them some time. They have to incorporate their own patches, build and package for something like 11 supported platforms, do internal QA and support two different delivery methods (helix-update and red carpet), one of which is still in beta.
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Celebrate the finer things in life
Actually it is available. Go to the Evolution snaphost channel.
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Celebrate the finer things in life
This does worry me, since I don't recall bonobo being a called Ximian project before. It was originally intended to get graphics in gnumeric using a guppi component in gnumeric at runtime. (It was probably intended for more at the time, but this was the most immediate application) Helix/Ximian GNOME wasn't even around then. So since when has Ximian "taken over" bonobo?
On the other hand, companies writing open source software is good. I'm sure they want to build their Ximian GNOME brand so they can sell it some day (Buy Ximian GNOME with full commercial support!), but this means that we who manage without this commercial support get stuff for free. Like RedHat gave us RPM.
...Or unless you're a diehard GNOME user. Bonobo is very cool technology---it's what allows Evolution (the mail client) and Nautilus (the file manager) do what they do in a sane componentized mannor.
Bonobo going 1.0 means that the technology has stabalized enough to be ready for programmers to really work with which will mean a lot of cool stuff is just around the corner.
--Ben
Okay.. I checked my Red Carpet updater and bonobo 1.0 isn't there. You know what else still isn't there? Gnome 1.4 final that was announced last week. What is the point of Red Carpet again? I'm confused. :(
-the spoony fork
Speak truth to power.
Would you mind filling the rest of us in? What exactly is bonobo? not everyone subscribes to gnome-announce. Neither of the links provide any good explanation.
I saw a show on TV about the extinction of the dinosaurs once. The scientist pointed at a hill side explaining that "in this three inch layer of dirt there is nothing but ferns, below it you can find dinosaurs and above it mostly mammals". I though to myself. Millions of years of domination over the earth and they were wiped out in a massively catastrophic event and in the end what happened? Three inches of dirt!.
We humans will no doubt erase ourselves from this planet and we will do it by eliminating every other creature that we can first. But in the end the earth will recover and some alien or future species might notice the millimeter or so of dirt we will end up as.
BTW it won't take nuclear weapons just a steady elimination of species, poisoning the water and air, and messing with our own food supply.
War is necrophilia.
How about plugging, say, only the initial releases of truly innovative software? That would give the rest of us the chance to get slashdot attention.
-bugg
Actually, people do have a crisis related to Bonobos because we are related to Bonobos -- very closely related -- indeed more closely related than any other species.
The reason this is important to humans is that at just the point when we have the capacity to catalogue the full genome of various animals, including ourselves, the nearest "genetic control experiment" to humans in is on the verge of being wiped out thereby potentially depriving us of key genetic information that would allow us to better understand ourselves.
There are interests that benefit from our ignorance about ourselves, and they may already be acting to bury the evidence.
Don't help them.
Seastead this.
It's fine and dandy to want to preserve real diversity (which is furthered by preserving species as well as peoples -- as opposed to mixmastering ecologies and cultures which homogonizes that which it doesn't destroy), but Bonobos are actually quite tame sexually compared to some of our more distantly related primate "cousins" and there is much abuse of bonobos for sexual political agendae of humans. For example, the "gay" activists like, such as "Anne Marie" above try to portray bonobos as being queer as a three dollar bill when the reality is more accurately portrayed by "her" own politically-motivated tract in the following passage:
Even before the food was thrown into the area, the bonobos would be inviting each other for sex: males would invite females, and females would invite males and other females.
Note, the conspicuously absent male-male sexual approach that one would presume from assertions by "Anne".
Another site is more realistic about primate homosexual behavior and it really puts Bonobo "gays" in perspective:
Some of these examples of "homosexuality" in phylogenetically distant animals may be analogous rather than homologous to human homosexuality, but as we move closer to humans the likelihood of homologous behaviors increases. In mammals many different behaviors have been observed that might be associated with male homosexuality. Among primates homosexual behaviors are particularly diverse. These include such practices as the mounting of one male by another (e.g. Langurs, pig-tailed macaques, baboons, orangutans, chimpanzees, bonobos) (Sommer 1990; Oi 1991; Lorenz 1963; Yamagiwa 1992; Hayaki et al. 1989), including mounting with anal penetration (e.g. stumptailed macaques, squirrel monkeys) (Sommer 1990; Maple 1977), and mounting with anal penetration and ejaculation (Japanese macaques, rhesus macaques, gorillas) (Sommer 1990; Gadpaille 1980; Edwards and Todd 1991). Masturbation of other males has also been reported, including mutual masturbation (e.g. stump-tailed macaques) (Sommer 1990) as well as genital-genital contacts (e.g. bonobos) (Enomoto 1990), at times leading to ejaculation (e.g. gibbons) (Edwards and Todd 1991). Fellatio has also been reported for stumptailed macaques (Sommer 1990). Other perhaps related behaviors include sniffing/inspecting the genitals/anal region of other males (e.g. stumptailed macaques,) (Sommer 1990), "displaying" an erect penis to other males (e.g.vervet macaques)(Henzi 1985), and urinating a few drops on the other male during the display (e.g. squirrel monkey)(Castell 1969). In some cases males have shown a preference for their homosexual partners over heterosexual partners (e.g. rhesus macaques)(Sommer 1990).
Bonobos are endangered and that should be enough for us to care about protecting them. The survival of Bonobos is unlikely to benefit from enlisting them in the cause of gay rights.
Finally, if gays really want to justify their sexual activities within a technological civilization, they can do much than to compare themselves with other, far less civilized and technological, primates.
Seastead this.
Everyone likes a good cause.
Seastead this.
In posts like this (X 1.0 released! X goes beta!), please mention what X (in this case, Bonobo) is.
Thanks.
-Puk
Note that I say these things as a GNOME hacker. I agree with you that GNOME has a disturbing record for ripping off microsoft. This bothers me mostly because the history of microsoft is one of complete and total disrepect for the end-user and an absolute unwillingness to design graphical user interfaces along lines of good, sound UI design principles that have been established throughout 20 years of scientific testing. And Miguel et. all are trying to pass the usability test by cheating off the stupidest kid in class (namely, Microsoft). I've gotten so upset over this that I'm now forking the GNOME UI. Despite this, the GNOME people are good people who really do want to bring linux to the desktop. Even if they have no clue as to how to do it or what end users really want and need, they give people like me who do understand good UI design access to *all* the source code. Guess what would happen if I took a trip up to Redmond and said "Hi, Bill. Your software is the most user-hostile piece of sh*t ever designed. Give me all the code so that I can do the job your programmers aren't doing and make stuff easy for people to use". He'd tell me to piss off. For all of their faults, the GNOME project won't do that. Open source isn't socialist, because having total control over your code and making everything run on schedule is facism at its best.
Hey, did anyone else notice this from the announcement? If I were a GNOMiE (full disclosure: I'm not), I would find that a tad worrisome. Even Red Hat did not do this when they controlled GNOME and came under big fire for immoral practices, but now Ximian is basically trying to 0wn the GNOME brand. GNOME == Ximian GNOME.
But that's not true. GNOME == (Ximian GNOME - Ximian services, logos, ads, propaganda). GNOME is a community project but is basically being hijacked by companies trying to make a buck. Eazel has already taken over the GNOME shell with the much balley-hooed Nautilus.
Surely the GNOME community should take action and halt this downward spiral? What happened to the admirable GNOME spirit of by the hackers for the hackers?
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
I am really a little bit confused about this announcement. I thought Bonobo was part of GNOME 1.4? And that the GNOME 1.4 release was a release of *stable* packages with a *stable* API? I thought Bonobo was the core component of GNOME 1.4 (also used in, e.g. Nautilus)? And now, a few days after the release of GNOME 1.4, Bonobo gets stable. Can somebody explain me what's happening? Thanks!
It's... It's...
"We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
Don't take it skiing.
Oh, wrong Bono.
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
You can try the slow-loading FAQ.
It's a bunch CORBA component stuff. Bonobo itself is a component architecture, but the distribution appears to come with lots of handy tools. But I've never heard of it either, I'm just checking out the FAQ. But it's a good bet that if you love your interfaces, you might want to check this out. And if you think your code should communicate the old fashioned way-- by just calling a function, goddammit-- you'll want to take a miss. Personally, I'm sick enough of all these C/C++ attempts at component and interface design, I'll probably just ignore this too.
This is of course quite cool as Evolution, Nautilus, etc. are for a large part just frameworks for Bonobo applications. Trolls might want to remember that before they complain that Nautilus, Evolution, etc. are bloated.
Monkey sense
Seeing as it was their employees who headed the bonobo project it's hardly a crime for them to make the announcement. Look, Ximian and Eazel are embraced as PART of the Gnome community, will you silly slashdot trolls please stop trying to drive a wedge where nobody wants one?
got drum'n'bass?
http://mp3.com/vitriolix
Why yes I have. In fact you are right. We monkeys ARE really humans. They made me a special keyboard so I could type this. You are so right. In fact I don't think you are crazy at all for thinking we monkeys are humans or for thinking that killing animals is the same as killing people. EEEEP EEEP! Oo oo oh AH!
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Don't suppose any of the Gnome people are reading this, but can we assume that Bonobo is going to be held to a set standard that won't change drastically over short periods of time?
I'd like to say that I trust Miguel and the folks at Ximian to give us a good programming model, but based on the GTK+ toolset and all, I kind of don't. Simple widgets like list and tree widgets went from GtkList and GtkTree in 1.0 to GtkCList and GtkCTree in 1.2 and last time I checked both were getting dropped in a later release for some entirely new widget that combined the two. This isn't exactly developer friendly.
Also, after the latest Gnome download suddenly some of my older GTK+ apps are exhibiting weird behaviour -- okay, it's a problem with high scores in Same Gnome, but last time I checked, that was a widget tied directly to GTK+, and if that's no longer working, what other unexpected surprises are there going to be? What steps are being taken to make sure that stuff written for Bonobo 1.0 compliance won't become outdated before we reach Bonobo 2.0?
Basically, as someone who was really looking forward to getting into GUI programming in Linux, it was a little disheartening to find out that I was learning obsolete material. Considering Bonobo is being touted as a programming philosophy as much as it is a library, how rock-steady is that philosophy going to be?
I suppose all the hardcore Gnome and GTK+ coders will come out of the woodwork and flame me to hell and back, but I had to ask. It's not like my karma can get much lower, anyway...
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Bonobos are sentient chimpanzees comparable in intelligence to humans. Like dolphins, they are as smart as (or smarter than) humans, but because of their evolutionary niche, they don't need to build machinery of death or destroy their habitats the way humans do. We could learn a lot from Bonobos.
But we haven't. We haven't learned a thing. We persecute them the way we persecute homosexuals, and even for the same reasons. Unlike Christians, Bonobos have no qualms about their sexualities. They live in a state of sexual bliss where all sexual relationships are practiced: heterosexual, homosexual, group, father-daughter, brother-sister, etc. (only apparently excluding mother-son). But just as Texas outlaws sodomy, so do humans hunt and kill Bonobos for their sexual deviance.
The future is pretty bleak for Bonobos. Their populations are getting corraled into smaller and smaller territories. Their numbers are being thinned. In many ways, it resembles the way American Indians were decimated by colonists. It's the genocide of our time.
Can we hope to live in a world free from sexual oppression? Can we hope to live in a world where a primate doesn't have to worry about where she puts her tongue, lest she be caged and lashed? If we cannot protect even the weakest among us, we cannot hope to achieve true justice.
Bonobos are people. They deserve full human rights.
By naming their distribution "Bonobo", the Gnome developers have done a little to bring the public attention to the crisis of Bonobos. But what will happen when the project is given its next codename? What will happen to the Bonobos then?
I don't want to throw stones at Gnome, but I almost want to suggest they chose the name "Bonobo" because they think monkeys are funny and they think it's a funny name. But let me tell you, monkeys are no laughing matter. Have you ever been a monkey? Have you ever experienced what it's like to be a monkey in today's fast-paced world? Have you ever wanted to scream out "But I'm an 'ape', not a 'monkey'!" and had no one listen to your cries?
We have a chance to make tomorrow brighter than today. We can do it piecemeal by giving ecologically conscious names to our distributions, or we can do it wholesale by invading Africa and reclaiming the Bonobos' ancestral tribal homelands in the name of Bonobos everywhere. But at no costs shall we squander this opportunity.
Solidarity!
-- Anne Marie
hi all (george here)
well well well, now WHAT in the HELL!! who was the IDOT that came up with this name. bonobo!! what in the HELL is that all about, is that what linux users want to be ASSOCIATED with!! monkeys!! well is it or isn't it!! god!! are you PROUD of your computer!! or do you WANT to be associated with crap-throwing creatures. i don't know about you but if i want to see a feces-flinging primate i'll roll over in bed and look at my WIFE.
god that is ALL we need, to get interviewed on TV and have the guy ask "what operation system do YOU use" and then have you say "i use linux" and then have the TV guy say "oh are you a monkey!! ooh-ooh-ooh AHH-AHH!!" i am a linux user and will NOT STAND to be made the butt of banana jokes all god damn day long, now do you got that!! fuck!! let me say THIS: linux would be on 100% of all desktop and bill gate would be eating fucking TRASH out of the gutter if it wasn't for the STUPID design decisions of the linux developers. first they pick a god damn penguin as the mascot. now they name this component system after a monkey. GOD HELP US what is next!! they will probably name the killer office app something like "goat sex!!"
WISE UP you morons!! god
your bud
-gbd