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Is Gaming Too Much Skin, Not Enough Good Clean Fun?
legLess writes: "Salon is carrying a thought-provoking article saying that 'The soft-porn fixation embarrassingly displayed at E3 is dooming the gaming industry to the nerd-geek ghetto.' It says that the gaming industry, in terms of sales and audience, is much closer to porn than Hollywood. Some great quotes ('[GOD] CEO Mike Wilson decided that preeminence should also involve a lot of cleavage and dwarfs'), and interesting thoughts ('Games should be treated as art, but they are becoming more and more like hamburger')."
one of the main points of the article; if you had bothered to read it, is that the gaming industry, by acting like a bunch of wanna-be frat boys is shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to market share.
every game publishing company out there spends millions of dollars trying to figure out why there aren't more female gamers(you know, that other 51% of the population with desposable income). and how to lure the elusive "female gamer".
here's a hint: hookers and gogo dancers might lure the Paul Steeds of the world, but they have the same chance of success as a car full of hooting gino's do at picking up a girl on the street.
So, if the interactive entertainment industry ever wants to see the kind of revenue that say Hollywood does, they have to Grow Up.
Seems to me like if females want to play games oriented at females, then females ought to start writing games. I'm not trying to be crass or offensive...I'm just pointing out that telling somebody else to make a game to appeal to you isn't necessarily the best way to do it.
Think about it this way...should I try to tell Amy Tan to start writing stories that appeal to men? I'm not saying that men don't read and enjoy her books (just as many females play and enjoy video games). I keep hearing, however, that women don't feel as engaged by games as men do. OK, fine...go ahead and show us what you're talking about! Getting up on a moral high horse and painting game developers as misogynistic retards isn't productive. Explaining what you are interested in might be productive. Making a game that you would like would certainly be productive.
In other words, if nobody understands your taste, why are you surprised that nobody caters to it?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
This then begs the question of what would be better.
:-)
Hypothetically, User #267435 is looking for a new boyfriend via the internet. She wishes to find a male user of internet discussion forums who enjoys neither computer games or pornography.
I foresee a potential problem here
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
Sierra, for example, which first gained prominence through family-friendly adventure games..
Like Leisure Suit Larry?
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
Excerpt 1:
(Then again, when it comes to erotic self-delusion, the average game boy is probably their peer. "I was all flirting with her and I gave her my business card," said a chunky, fish-lipped E3 attendee, proudly reporting back to his friends. "She said she'd send me some pictures, and call me.")
Excerpt 2:
It's the dearth of women, among other things, that consigns games to their geek ghetto, with no genuine celebrities, or pop-cult recognition outside its narrow subculture. So at E3, you're treated to the sight of hot young developers swaggering across the floor, tricked out in pimp daddy raiment and boy-band hair, whose only groupies are mouth-breathing dudes in "Akira" T-shirts.
Excerpt 3:
It only takes a couple of hours of floor gossip to grasp how deep the social retardation among most game developers runs -- and how not ready for prime time they truly are.
And I won't even mention the number of times that dreaded term "mainstream" was touted as some kind of desirable trait...
I read through pretty much all of the comments as of when I clicked the link (which was a while ago), and AFAIK nobody has brought this up yet.
What about the point in the article where it mentions that the most packed booths at E3 weren't the ones with lots of skin showing, but ones like Blizzard's. Ones that had actual interesting games.
Could it be that the game makers mistakenly think that sex sells? In actuality the best selling games out there are games like Starcraft and The Sims, neither of which has any real sex appeal. They're just flat out good games.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
No kidding. They've got all these ideas about one-to-many relationships... sinful, I tell ya!
Of course it's not just games. I find women beautiful, but I'm still sick and tired of seeing breasts everywhere as the primary focus of advertising. I fully support a women's right to celebrate her sexuality any way she chooses, for self-gratification, money, attention, or whatever. But I think it's sad that so often it's for the financial gain or prurient interest of emotionally-retarded men.
:/
I found the article's comparisons with porn interesting, but I don't agree with the author's premise that games are very far removed from Hollywood. Christ - Hollywood not exploit women? The difference here is audience, and it's a typical chicken-and-egg scenario.
Women go to see Hollywood movies all the time, and not always the notorious "chick flicks." Hollywood takes the female audience very seriously, and panders to it very successfully (just like it panders to everyone, of course; this isn't gender-specific). Porn and games, however, are consumed mostly by men, often young men, so these industries pander to that audience.
Is it lack of focus by game developers? Is it that men are more easily visually stimulated than women (porn), or more competitive (games)? In my experience, women are less apt to want to sit in front of a computer, for any reason. Dunno why
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Using sex to sell games demeans the entire industry and prevents gaming from being taken seriously. So what?
The article makes a point that the largest crouds were drawn not by E3 peep shows, but by *gasp* actual games. Blizzard and Maxis, in particular, were very popular. Both make, in my opinion, very high quality, fun games, and have even had breakthrough sucess with "mainstream" computer users. If you don't believe me, take a look at sales charts for the last few years. Starcraft and The Sims have made more cash than most major feature films, and they've done so by word of mouth outside of the gaming community.
The point that I'm trying to make is that good games don't need sex appeal inside or outside of the game to be popular. Companies like Blizzard and Maxis will be around for a long time because they make games that people want to play. Companies that rely on "booth babes" won't, because sex alone does not make for popularity in something that is marketed as a game. The porn industry will crush inferior, over-sexualized games, because it's been around for thousands of years, and knows exactly what it's doing when it comes to satisfying the latent sexual fantasies of the male psyche.
It's evolution at work. It all comes down to whether a game is fun, and fun is a concept that transcends the "geek ghetto". No matter what ammount of gratuitous sex or violence is added, it won't distract people if they're not enjoying themselves. Booth babes, your days are numbered.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
Salon would know a think or two about porn from thier own pay site.
It's our culture. Everything we do is sexualized. How many trade shows have you been to and not seen booth babes? How many ads have you seen use sex to sell things? The argument of the article is basically: There's a lot of gratuitious sex here and it's keeping video games in the "geek ghetto". But that's not true: All products use sex to sell, especially entertainment. Saying that video games are especially sexually charged ignores the legions of sexually charged movies, tv shows, magazines, etc that are already consumed. Video games didn't grow in a vacum. end rant.
"we should not stimulate those who cannot handle a heightened sense of awareness and can't resist their desires"
"it is the women of America who really pay for the porn and violence that our menfolk consume"
I hate to cut apart your entire post, but I just wanted to highlight those points, as they seem to speak clearly for themselves. I've gotten the impression that you're advocating that much of the male populace cannot handle such intense emotions without longterm side effects? And, as a result we should do our best to shield them from any intense media in order to protect the interests of the other 51% of society? The problem here is, this is an extremely gender-biased approach to solving some of the most harmful aspects of society towards women (spousal abuse, rape, etc). Perhaps those that do offend are directly influenced into their actions by sexual and violent media, but then again, such violence has been declining in North America (please correct me if I'm wrong) long before such media really existed in such a wide spread manner. Perhaps, instead of blaming porn and violent video games, we should look at unemployment, poverty, racial/gender inequity (gender inequity is not just a problem for women, it is a problem for men as well), and general social frustration.
-Medgur
And if all video games had the same (profitable) plot line, and wonderful character development.
"ding dong!"
"I wonder who that could be?"
"Hello, I'm here to clean the pool"
"My, but that's a large pole you've got there"
"Actually, it's a plasma gun. I intend to kill you with it."
"No, no. Please don't. I am very scared."
Cue the electric bass...
Please mod me up. My grandma might not make it to the weekend and she always wanted me to hit karma cap.
I mean, really. A guy going on and on about the "ghetto" nature of a few floozies stading at the booths is supposedly outweighing the over-sexxed nature of Hollywood? I think now.
If there's any industry that follows the "Sex Sells" motto, it would be that of the film industry. Sure, it's nice and all to idealistically blame videogames for the proliferation of viloence and sex in today's society, but it does little to explain the existance of the *realistic* violence and sex-laden nature of the movie and TV industry.
I suppose that using Brittney Spears and her hips to sell Pepsi is somehow more justified than having a "Booth Babes." I'm not saying the latter is better than the former, but it is definitly comparable. When following that line, the movie industry definitly carries protrayals of sex to a far more extreme nature than videogames ever could get away with. How many movies released last year had graphic sex scenes? How many videogames? Whatever high number you come up with for movies, you're still comparing it to a big *zero* in the gaming industry.
But, of course... With Hollywood, I guess it's considered "mature" and "artistic"--with games it's "Ghetto" and the "downfall of women."
What's a sig?
Admittedly, the use of hired booth bimbos smacks of tawdriness, but hey, if you can't get attention for your lame-o game you can probably get some by making a sexual connection. This is hardly unique to the gaming industry, or even to men. Just walk into your local supermarket and take a look at the covers of the magazines by the checkout aisle. It's all "Revive Your Sex Life" and "10 Things Men Wish You Would Do In Bed".
Sex sells. Wow, news flash. Sex sells to horny teenage gamer boys who are not the kind of alpha males who go to prom with the cheerleader on their arms. Geez, I'm so shocked.
There's a much better story, IMHO, in asking why so many videogames rely on explicit violence. Not that I think videogame violence turns our kids into monsters, but I do find it ironic that Americans are so puritanical about sex when we're so forgiving of graphic violence.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
I find this hilarious. You've got games where you can frag or blow up humans, mutants, zombies, terrorists, counter-terrorists, buildings, spaceships, starships, elves, dwarves, attack choppers, gangsters, aliens, vampires, hostages, and beings from the Alice in Wonderland universe.
And you're concerned about Lara Croft's short shorts? Only in America.
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
The writer seems to have a major problem with men and boys. They like sex. The horror! However, the fact is, with the exception of a small "non-mainstream" percentage, most women like sex too. Ever taken a look at a "Woman's Magazine" lately? It is full of pictures of half-naked women/girls and explicit advice about sexual matters. Half the content is advice on how to attract wealthy and powerful men, and how to get rid of losers. Just as men rate women on how good their figures are, women rate men on their success, or "alpha-characteristics."
The only difference between Cosmopolitan and Playboy is that Cosmo sells sex from a "Producer" perspective and Playboy sells it from a "Consumer" perspective.
Magnus.From the article:
"As it stands, the whole jig is just one disgruntled female employee away from toppling under a sexual harassment suit. Very likely, the "hostile work environment" clause of the code is fulcrum enough to bring the entire embarrassing enterprise down around the industry's ankles."
She is talking about E3, but if she only knew what kind of hostile work environment exists at your average male-dominated game development house....
At one (nameless but could be any) game company a few years back, I remember hearing guys down the hall screaming "EAT MY FUCKING MANGINA, BITCH" repeatedly while playing games. This, at 4pm on a weekday. Also, surfing fecal porn during work hours brought barely a blink from our producer.
If I ever have a daughter who's a programmer, she's going into databases.
"Nerd-geek Ghetto." Ah ha ha. So true, I have many friends who pick up NHL 2001 or Madden just to have it on the shelf to balance out the "nerd-geek" factor.
"When it rains, it pours." --Morton's Salt
They're harder to make games for, I imagine Black and White might appeal to some girls, but there are a lot of other market forces competing for those dollars. Getting girls to shift some of their income to games, might be like getting boys to shift some of their income to nail polish for men (yeah right). In Japan I think the games that really have the attention of the ladies, are the relationship role-playing games which (from descriptions I've read elsewhere) seem to revolve around a girl picking some boy and convincing him to fall in love with her, in a game akin to an old skool pick-a-path adventure.
At the end of the day, it looks like good games are one of the rewards of being born a male. Hand-eye coordination is easier to code for than relationship building.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
I guess this is more believable and consequently a better troll, but your post earlier this day in the Japanese gadgets discussion was much funnier.
yeah, right, Wagner, we should keep sex out of things. so, i guess writing stuff like this is completely out of the question.
Let's only have disgusting, unattractive characters from now on. We'll replace Lara Croft with Rosie O'Donnell. Will that satisfy the Tipper Gores of the world?
NO!? In other words, basically nothing will make them happy, because they enjoy preaching and making people feel bad. It has nothing to do with their cause; if they actually got what they wanted they'd still bitch just as loud.
Not to mention the fact that any hack who would use the word "cock-tease" in an article about alleged over-sexedness in an industry can be safely ignored. That in itself is proof that we live in a day and age when sex has mass appeal and is not considered by most to be impropriety when used like this. The majority of society--not just geekdom--is accepting of sexuality as an everyday part of existence, not something that needs to be kept private but something to be used as any other tool and any other type of appeal. This writer is just out of touch, and believes all the out of touch statements by old and out of date people like Sen. Lieberman and the others who are trying to close the gate after the horse has already left the barn.
Gaming is not a market for the old. It is a market for the young, the bulk of the industry aimed at teens through 30. As such, it is natural that the gaming community should reflect the values of its audience. And those values include treating sexuality openly. When the writer speaks of "the industry's dogged unwillingness (or inability) to join the mainstream," he's being ignorant of the fact that the behaviour he is denigrating is actually the mainstream.
It's ironic that at the same time old throwbacks like Lieberman who want to return culture to the 50s, are complaining that Hollywood is marketing sex and violence to teens, that this writer is ignorant enough to try to try to separate Hollywood from the gaming industry based on the gaming industry's wealth of sexuality and violence that is exactly akin to a typical Hollywood blockbuster. When he complains that gaming is an industry "with no genuine celebrities, or pop-cult recognition outside its narrow subculture" he conveniently ignores the fact that any given teen or twentysomething, and many older folks, can list their fvorite games just as they can their favorite films, and list their main characters just as they could list film stars. The lack of flesh-and-blood gaming icons outside the hardcore community is merely a reflection of the fact that people don't star in games--computer generated characters do, at least so far. So that's the fair comparison to make. Whether Mario or Lara Croft or Frogger, mainstream people know these characters and their games just as they know Hollywood stars and their movies.
The writer is just out of touch.
Chasing Amy
(We all chase Amy...)
Chasing Amy
(We all chase Amy...)
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus