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Andromeda
Andromeda: A Review
For those of you unfamiliar with the Show, "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" has a lot of exceptionally familiar elements. The broad underlying theme is pretty palatable, 300 years before, there was a grand federa...er...Commonwealth (not unlike Massachusetts or Virginia) that fell when one of its member species, the Nietzcheans, staged a bloody betrayal. During the beginning skirmishes of the war, the Andromeda Ascendant , led by Captain Dylan Hunt (Kevin Sorbo) was attacked by the Nietzscheans, basically got his ass kicked and, after evacuating ship, snuck the Andromeda into the outer reaches of a black hole, hiding himself from the Nietzschean onslaught, ostensibly to keep the Nietzscheans from taking and using the ship against the Commonwealth.
In the Black Hole, time dilates, so to Dylan only a small amount of time has gone by for him while the universe at large gets more chaotic and is reduced to a less ordered, and considerably more dangerous, place. With no one dominating force and the Nietzscheans themselves reduced to intra-pride (as their tribal elements are called) warfare and fighting. In this time, a ship, the Eureka Maru, with her captain Beka Valentine and assorted crew are hired to tow the Andromeda from the Black Hole from which it is stuck. The assumption being, I suppose, that it was dead in space as it had not pulled itself out and, in the post commonwealth world, is a valuable and powerful ship to own.
Hilarity ensues, of course, with the end result being Dylan asking the crew of the Maru to join him in his quest to restore the grand systems commonwealth in all of its justice, fairness and glory. They agree as they figure living on a beautiful ship is more likely to work out for them them living in squalor doing tow jobs, oh, and this commonwealth thing sounds fine too.
It's actually not a bad premise for a show, you have the broad story arc, the plucky and clever crew and a tense universe to fly around in. And to give the producers of the show credit, the universe they created is not the buffed, dusted, windexed and polished one of the Star Trek universe, although they are clearly closely related. (The Andromeda is always very clean, but I digress). The Andromeda universe has one particularly grisly race in it, the Magog. The Magog are a basically very disgusting race which attack by swarming and overtaking any resistance, then, after subduing their foe, using them as nests for their eggs, in a very "Alien" type fashion. They are pretty nasty though.
Andromeda has come under fire, rightly so, for being derivative, "Star-Trek Lite", as it were. I agree with this, as Andromeda clearly has its derivative parts. Where Star Trek has the Federation, Andromeda has the Systems Commonwealth. Where star Trek had Warp Drive, Andromeda has the Slip Stream. And so on...
The question then becomes, are its derivations a problem? I assert that they are not, it's almost as if its creators said "Well, we have to go faster than light, what dopey apparatus shall we use?" , accepting the need for certain concepts to be necessary elements for a science fiction space opera to have.
It should be clear by now that I like Andromeda. Why? It's basically a likeable cast doing interesting things with some pretty okay cgi space battles. In fact, the cast is very strong. I never watched Hercules so I came into it not expecting much from the lead, if anything being surprised at his performance. I mean, we're not talking Sir Lawrence Olivier here, but he's good. You'll recognize his Second-in-command from the short lived second part of Forever Knight, after it had moved to USA, and she's likeable too.
It's worth pointing out that Canada apparently took the lead in the space race, so rah rah to our neighbors to the north! Like many of its syndicated brethren, Andromeda is filmed in Canada using mostly Canadian actors. It's not a criticism at all, but it is funny that the Canadian accent is the one behind each actor.
Andromeda clearly isn't perfect. Whoever was in charge of naming the cast was clearly a mental case. The actors all have names that were thought out way too much: "Trance Gemini", "Seamus Zelazy Harper", "Beka Valentine", "Tyr Anasazi". The names remind me of bad fan fiction. That said, the ship names are pure sci-fi poetry: "Andromeda Ascendant", "Balance of Peace", "Pax Magellanic", "Eureka Maru". So it's a mixed blessing. They are creative people, and sometimes, they get more than enough rope to hang themselves.
There are some very good things about Andromeda. For instance the way they handle the ship's artificial intelligence is hugely entertaining. And the ship itself is vast, with a complement of 4000 when fully staffed (which makes you wonder how a crew of 7 can make it work, but hey! It's all about androids.) You also get a feeling that there is more going on that just that one ship with its one crew, and the larger mission is a compelling one.
Whether or not you watch Andromeda will most likely depend on which episode you enjoy (or are subjected too) the first time. There are some episodes that are frankly embarrassing. Beka, for instance, is the daughter of a (now dead) drug smuggler and addict. So of course she is in danger of becoming one herself and in one episode, it details her descent into addiction and her fast, predictable recovery near the end of the episode. It's a hugely annoying episode which makes you want to stab the thumbs down button on your Tivo. But then there are episodes like the "Mathematics of Tears", in which a sister ship of the Andromeda, the "Pax Magellanic" is discovered, which really make you want to see more.
In fact what drove me to suggest this article was the season finale "...its Hour Come Round At Last". In the grandest tradition of golden era Hollywood serials, it is probably one of the strongest episodes to date, the cast comfortable with their characters and each other. I won't say much about this, but it was very good, and almost horrifying.
If you know me and my taste, you'll know that one of the things I judge sci-fi TV by is the quality of its space battles. Andromeda, well, has them. I'm not going to say that I'm disappointed by them, because I think they rock, and they do, but there is some final editing or gamma trick they aren't making, and it makes the battles look as if someone messed with the contrast or something, but the battles are generally very watchable and fun. That said, whoever came up with the slipstream sequences (while in slipstream, mind you, not the transitions into slipstream, which are bad ass), should be kicked in the stomach. The travel sequences in slipstream are cartoonish at best.
In short, Andromeda is derivative and annoying, but you'll like it despite its faults.
The pilot begins with Hunt's XO turning on him and forcing Hunt to kill him. Not very interesting with two characters we've just been introduced to minutes before. If it'd been (young) Kirk killing Spock and then being trapped just outside the event horizon of a black hole for 300 years objective time, it would have been a surprise that left people talking for weeks.
On the other hand, the Magog are a much better-designed and more intimidating race than the Klingons ever were, even before their treaty with the Federation castrated them.
I think the title of your article has it right. It was not the writers of the show that misinterpreted Nietzche accidentally, but that the writers of the show purposely wrote the Nietzcheans to have failed to live up to their namesake.
You should also try watching
Stargate: SG-1.
It's based off the movie,
but it's been going for four or five
seasons (produced under Showtime, actually)
and is pretty good...
if you can find someone to carry it.
Most of the stations carrying syndication
re-runs of The Outer Limits usually
carry Stargate at some time slot or another.
Aha! So I'm not the only one!
I swear he's gonna pull an Asimov (see: Foundation). I went insane over the first book. I loved the 2nd. I eagerly awaited the third. I got the 4th right when it came out. I got the 5th one pretty early. (See where this is going?)
And now, well, now I just WANT IT TO END! Please, Mr. Jordan, stop opening new subplots. =)
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
"was Star Trek really the first sci-fi concept with ... dematerializtion devices?"
Actually, I think it *was* the first to have transporters. Rememeber that the original Star Trek was pretty low-budget. It was easier to stage transporters than shuttlecraft trips. It's not much different than McCoy's instruments all being fancy salt shakers.
"I'm going to give season two a chance. But as I think back, I think that Star Trek TNG's first season: LAME, Star Trek: DS9 First Season: Oh, my god, this is LAME. Voyager: Took a few seasons and Seven of Nine (not for her boobs) to drag it out of the LAME pile to the passable pile."
...
"Babylon 5 and Farscape are the only two I can think off that don't fit that mold."
Actually, IMHO, the first season of B5 was OK. It took awhile to get rolling. Same thing with Farscape.
It's actually Balance of Judgment. Much better, IMO.
Nothing I've seen since has changed that thought.
There's way better stuff on TV. Now if only HBO could package up the second season of the Sopranos for DVD, I could put my home entertainment system to good use again... damn Canadian cable companies =P
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
It's syndicated, which means it doesn't have a network. In practice, it's picked up by the same "independent" tv stations that are generally also WB affiliates. This also has the annoying side effect that air times will vary from station to station. Your mileage will vary. (Check local listings. TV Guide has a great listings search feature, for those of you lucky enough to be within the United States.)
> Majel is his widow, the voice of most computers and Deanna Troi's mother.
She also played Nurse Chapel in the original series. (And the same character as Doctor Chapel and Commander Chapel in some of the movies, according to http://imdb.com/Name?Barrett,+Majel)
She was in the pilot too.
--
rant
gravity is the weakest of the four fundamental forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear and weak nuclear) and as such the interactions would be extraordinarily minute and the alterations to the particles position, K.E., etc... would also be minute,
Yep, and your measurement's precision would also be minute. You have a low resolution (since it's low energy) position measurement, and no real measurement of impulse.
Transporters won't ever work my measuring and duplicating. The only hope is to leave the quantum level alone at all times, like with the quantum teleportation of photons that was demonstrated.
At the quantum level, low energy means low precision of measurement. That's physics, not technology.
Or, as the old saw has it, "Capitalism is all about man's exploitation of man. Communism is the other way round."
spawn_of_yog_sothoth
The science is laughable???
... Lasers, etc. could not be aimed because you cannot see where the other ship is, let alone where it will be when the beam gets there)(also beam weapons would spread too far to have enough energy density to hurt anything at that kind of distance). Lasers, etc. are only used for point defense purposes.
Compared to what show???
Star Trek LAL (and I like Star Trek)
Babylon 5 (ok, the humans had lower tech, but Andromeda is set MUCH farther in the future(even before the 300+ years since the fall of the Commonwealth.)
Farscape Pure Fantasy technology, with no attempt to explain it(but they do not need to because it is more of a space fantasy like Star Wars.)
SG1 Inconsistent, but at least they make some concessions to just HOW much the tech levels may be different from civilization to civilization(but don't get me going on how the most advanced race in this galaxy(the greys BTW) cannot manage to duplicate, or even understand how a projectile weapon(like a M16!!!) works!!!!)
Earth Final Conflict Have never got to see it, because NO local or Cable station in that TimeWarner caries in Beaumont, TX, caries it.
LEX, Pure Science Fantasy again, so no need.
Andromeda uses appropriate weapons for the situation:
Missiles for long range
Beam weapons only for VERY short range.
Most all hand weapons are projectile based, even though the special effects do not always make it seem so.
In fact the major problem I have with Andromeda is that the special effects people see to have free reign to create whatever they think looks good without regard to whether it is what is being described on screen.
For example, battles in Andromeda usually happen at ranges of light seconds to light MINITES apart(which is why they have to use missiles, because they are self guided
They have gravity control(or maybe inertia control is more accurate). So??? What series does not? Even Babylon 5 had it. Not the humans but some other races had it. If B5 had been set in a space ship rather than on a rotating space station, I bet that they would have found some way for the Humans to have purchased, stolen, or been given gravity control devices, (or not have made it something that was rare.) It is just too much trouble to film a believable Zero G environment. The only show that did it all the time was(I think Tom Corbet Space Cadet!!!, which actually tried to get the physics correctly(for its day.))
One thing that bothered me at first was the fact that no one seemed to be able to hit Dillon with a gun in the first 2 episodes, and the CREW seemed ALMOST immune to the internal defenses of the ship, but it is part of the back story that all Commonwealth solders have ECM devices built into their uniforms and since almost all projectile weapons in Andromeda use smart bullets, that is explained in a logical way. And it is clear that it was intentional because the person trying to shoot him had a VERY surprised look on his face when he missed, and when questioned about it tried to cover up.
Sorry about rambling on so long, but this kind of statement really bothers me, when it is not backed up by examples of what is bothering the person.
James Kenney
James Ray Kenney mailto:jrkenney@swbell.net
They did after a few episodes.
James Kenney
James Ray Kenney mailto:jrkenney@swbell.net
look at the episode guide at http://www.andromedatv.com or the postings at www.slipstreambbs.com
James Kenney
James Ray Kenney mailto:jrkenney@swbell.net
I think that honor belongs to The Illuminatus Trilogy. ;) Though they may be right behind it.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
And sometimes Andromeda's projections, and Rommy.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
The first of that, Star Trek, was canceled after 3 years, brought back as an animated series, then as a series of movies.
The other two have enjoyed full seven year runs, and one of them has turned out three movies so far, with another on the way.
By any objective standard, he's a damned successful producer. A total of 17 years of TV, an animated series, and 10 movies were based directly off his concepts.
Everything else that says 'Roddenberry' is from notes, and was produced after his death. (Well, granted, he made a few pilots that didn't pan out, too.) You can't blame a man for writing down a story idea, and having people use it after his death.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
And, of course, he's the one who has to repair her, too.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
And, BTW, for someone who gets the 'best lines', he sure gets some lines that make him out to be a complete idiot.
And I kinda have to point out, the other characters really do get more story then he does. For example, with Daniel we have his wife and her children, with T'ealk (sp?) you have his wife, his son, his mentor, heck he has a whole planet, with Sam, you have her father, etc, plus Jollanare's (sp?) backstory...
All those are (or were) important and reoccuring characters. All Jack has is an ex-wife we've only seen in the movie, and a dead son. Everyone else has a direct connection to the other side of the Stargate, all Jack has is he's friends with Thor.
For him being the star, the show is actually a lot more balanced then other shows.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
LEXX is a blast, much more fun and inventive than most other sci-fi shows, and with a sense of humor too. Actually, it's not really sci-fi is it? Not much focus on science or technology. It's more "space adventure".
She's a canadian actress that used to star on a small tv teen show called Ready or Not.
On YTV she starred in Deep Water Black for onw show.
She's very, very hot.
john
"If a show of teeth is not enough, bite
As a Canadian, I can tell you that most americans definitely do have an accent. (With the exception, of course, of most movie stars, who manage to speak with a common movie-star accent. Except for "about," which I'll get to in a second.)
:)
As a Canadian, here's how you, too, can learn to speak like an American:
1) "About." This is the hardest word to get down, because it's so different and so commonly used. Americans typically pronounce it "Abowwwt," as if someone just punched them in the stomach. If you're having trouble getting this down, ask a friend for assistance. If they're anything like my friends, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to oblige you with a quick jab to your gut.
2) If you currently use the words "sorry," "pardon me," "excuse me," or "thank you" more than twenty times an hour, then I'm sorry but you can stop now; there's no way you'll ever pass for an American. My most sincere apologies.
3) When you're typing something with an "our" on the end, there's a good chance that there is no "u." (Apparently, Webster ever liked "u.")
4) A bag is now a sack. A Joe Louis' replaced by a Twinkie. Washrooms? Not anymore; now you use the bathroom. And you wait on line to use one, not in. A keener's now a brownnoser. Elastics are rubber bands. Runners are sneakers... track pants are sweat pants, a pop's a soda or coke, and brown bread's referred to as whole wheat...
What I'm really saying, of course, is that you'll never be able to do it. The Yanks have us, m'lads. They have us outmatched, outwitted and outnumbered when it comes mashing up the queen's English. I say you just do what I do; give up! Straighten your toque, crack open another two-four, place your arse upon the chesterfield, and watch yourself another Toronto-filmed Hollywood movie on your telly. That's the spirit! Cheers.
James (off to score some timbits..)
"My point of view on Microsoft right after reading it was 'leave em alone'"
Ah, but they can't. They have a psychotic desire to control everyone and everything around them, and to bend their environement (and other people) to their will no matter what the cost. Even if that cost means that there is no freedom in the future.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
I've heard women (I would go so far as to say 'feminist women') say that Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead were nothing more than rape fantasies. Of course they completely ignore that in both books the female was the one who controlled the circumstances that led to any sexual encounter.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
If they were Slashdot readers they'd be thin, pale creatures with no physical strength.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
I have noticed that every single person that likes to tear Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead up are either young and idealistic, or older socialists. They really don't have either the moral, ethical, principle, or intellectual base to understand the concepts presented without looking past the admittedly bad story line. They are all clones of either Peter Keating and Ellsworth Toohey. Followers, and sycophants with no imagination or originality running around parroting whatever the trend du jour is.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Which brings me to my point... I can't believe that (while skimming) I didn't see anyone mention the classic BBC sci-fi "Blake's 7"! A show in which they killed off main characters! (And I don't mean the occasional "Tasha Yar" every couple of series) Oh, and they STAYED dead (unlike most original Trek characters)
B7 was also not crawling with token aliens like many other shows do. Star Trek shows are all about 8 or 10 humans, one vulcan, and the flavor-of-the-week alien-or-android. Blake's7 was about a galaxy inhabited by Earthling humans who colonized the stars. That allowed for (1)cheaper production costs ;) and (2)more focus on the fight against the tyrannical federation <cough> than on battling the latest "worse than the last kind of alien" foes that shows like ST:DS9 and ST:Voyager kept pulling out of their asses. :)
Not that I don't enjoy Star Trek... I just like Blake's 7 (oh, and Babylon 5) better. ;)
I really want to make some kind of goofy video game that pits StarTrek's Borg ("assimilate! assimilate!") against Dr.Who's Daleks ("exterminate! exterminate!")
Hehehehe...
Yep, in one episode Tyr is sitting around reading Atlas Shrugged. I've never read it myself, but if it could cause someone who just learned to read to swear off reading forever, I don't think I want to.
Andromeda is based on a concept of Gene Roddenberry's originally intended for the Star Trek universe. It's 300 years after the Federation has fallen.
The Nietzscheans being fallen Vulcans, right?
The similarity between the Nietzscheans and the Vulcans is clear after watching only a few minutes of the first episode of Andromeda. Both races are logical thinkers with superiority complexes. The main difference is that while the Vulcans wouldn't admit to the superiority complex, the Nietzscheans revel in it.
(I wish they hadn't been called "Nietzscheans". But then, I guess it wouldn't be a Roddenberry show if it wasn't a bit silly).
-Stephen
Actually, I'd been told by a number of exchange students that the basic American accent is pretty flat. There isn't much of one. I live here in Ecotopia, Seattle, or Pugetropolis if you prefer. There are other regional accents of course, such as the much maligned Southern accent.
Oh yeah, I like the show. The worst shows are merely bad.
The party's over
LEXX was good when the it was a small movie like series called "Tales from a Parallel Universe" I think I saw it on the movie channel or something. In that version they actually could have the sex aspect in it instead of just dumping buckets of inuendo and hints that get really annoying.
Or maybe I have.
Nah, that's too surreal.
Female Prison Rape in NY
I'd rather watch Babylon 5 re-runs. I'm gonna go back to DS 9, too.
Isn't that redundant?
Majel was also Nurse Chapel in the original series.
"I wish I didn't care,
but I do."
Note to self: No more arguing with the faithful.
Atlas shrugged and The Fountainhead are the closest thing to a mind altering drug that can be found in the world of literature. For some it is great, and can change the direction of their life. For others the tension with existing beliefs is too high, or in some cases the reader may entirely miss the point--some people actually come away thinking Rand is advocating socialism. Don't ask me how this happens....
One of the writers for Andromeda posts regularly in the television forums on Salon's "tabletalk" message boards. Rest assured that they know that the Nietzcheans are silly, and yeah, they're supposed to be that way cause it's a silly show. The writer I mentioned has never come out and openly said it, but I think the "atmosphere" they're aiming for with Andromeda is the "so cheesy it's great" feel the original Star Trek series had.
--
"HORSE."
"HORSE."
-Flaming Carrot
Direct rip off of Farscape? Back that up with proof! The two are completely different. Farscape stars a human lost in space after testing a prototype drive (hmmm.. reminds me of lost in space). The main character just wants to go home--back to Earth, and Farscape wnet down hill after the first season.
Andromeda, is mainly about Dylan Hunt (Kvein's character) trying ot re-establish the systems common wealth which spanned 3 galaxies before it's fall.
I have news for you. Voyager wasn't the first sci-fi show/storyline to have a quest. There was Battlestar Galactica which had a quest to reach Earth with the remnants of Humanity.
I will give you the special effects being like Babylon 5.
UPN? What does that have to do with anything? I don't get that reference. Where I am, the show is on the WB.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
Go to the official Andromeda web site and check out the boards there. They had a BIG debate going on about thet very topic, and they disected it a lot. I don't think there was a lot of stones left unturned.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
Hrm. I always had the impression that the Vulcans had become pacifist and arrived at the conclusion that peaceful, cooperative societies are needed -- as well as self-sacrifice (Spock)?
The Nietszcheans appear to be drawn loosely from a casual reading of Nietszche's dogma, with their apparent rejection of "slave moralities" such as the concept of helping the weak (rather than taking advantage), the belief in ruthless competition at the individual level, and so forth. In the episodes I've seen, they seem to reject the idea of trust as impossible, which to a Vulcan would probably be seen as illogical since it would lead to the disintegration of most societies.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
yep, pretty much ;)
probably cause the main dude's navel gazing would drive anyone nuts watching it on the screen. kind of like turning Thomas Covenant into a TV show.
Are you kidding? That's one of the better series I've seen. I'm just afraid Jordan's going to croak before he finishes it :-)
Even in the distant future, the tech industry is dominated by lonely, geeky guys who would never see a girl naked if they didn't program her themselves.
- They steal or trick others into 'giving' them products or ideas that are valuable
- The use their monopoly in a given field to create monopolies in other fields
- They do this without concern for the effect on the consumer, though in most cases it harms the consumer
- They use their marketing department to trick consumers into believing that MS is helping them, which they may be doing, but not with that intention. Their intention is to create a monopoly.
Left unchecked, they may end up controlling- Desktop computers, including OEMs
- The Web browser (nearly complete)
- Web servers (through control of the web browser)
- Online video and audio (through proprietary Media Player codecs which require Windows as the OS in both client and streaming server)
- Internet access (if MSN is the only included software in Windows, many consumers may not even be aware of alternatives)
- Office productivity software (complete, because of changes to file formats, alternative products cannot co-exist with MS Office, rendering them useless to the majority of businesses)
Having one company controlling any one or even all of those would not be bad in itself. But the fact is that Microsoft is not ethical. They will do anything to make themselves a profit, long term. They will spend, of course, to make that long term profit. But what this does is force people to pay Microsoft for what was once a commodity (the Web, for instance, and in the future, possibly web servers). What will we do when (not if, but when) Microsoft changes Internet Explorer so that any server must have Microsoft Internet Information Server? You think they give away IE for no good reason? Look at the price of IIS!So, no, it is not that they want to control, it is that there is a need for someone to put in justice, because they won't keep their ethics in.
A note on Office: I work for a company with 150 users. We are looking for alternatives to the $345 per seat reaming we are about to take for Microsoft Office. StarOffice is closest, but the user interface is horrible (replacing the desktop and "start" button, making one application icon for all documents of all types, ignoring Windows settings for many things). The price would be right, even if it were double, but we cannot take a huge step backwards and retrain all of our users.
Hello little man. I will destroy you!
40 PAGES? In my copy (paperback, tiny print), it was 175 pages at the very least. I skipped the middle hundred pages. I didn't need it. She liked to write dialog more than Robert Heinlen (who I like)!
/.) I realized it doesn't work that way unless _all_ people are ethical. Guess what, they're not.
Anyway, Atlas Shrugged had some good philisophical points. My point of view on Microsoft right after reading it was 'leave em alone'. After a little more research (before I discovered
Hello little man. I will destroy you!
The problem I've noticed with LEXX is the fact that way to many of your sci-fi type people, seem to lack a key function in the human brain, and its called a sense of humor. I mean come on, there is something strangely humorous about a dead guy, a janitor, a severed robot head, and a chick who was turned into a love slave as punishment, all stuck on a bug looking ship.
But then again, if you had a sense of humor, you wouldn't take all of it so seriously and perhaps even get a date once in a while..oh well..
hmm..perhaps its time for some absestos underwear, I feel things getting a little toasty
(In case there are a few people that don't realize it, Gene Roddenberry is the creator of Star Trek. Majel is his widow, the voice of most computers and Deanna Troi's mother.) She's also behind Earth:Final Conflict and has a role on that show too.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Actually, I thought Star Trek DID have the Slip Stream, in the Voyager series. I may be mistaken on this, so correct me if I'm wrong.
----
Striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap ho
Indeed, the Nietzscheans are too regimented and survival-oriented. Nietzsche was concerned about a full range of emotion, an overwhelming feeling (be it positive or negative) for everything and anything, that the Nietzscheans lack.
They really should be called 'The Social Darwinists' or something. Concern about the survival of one's species is not the be-all and end-all of Nietzsche.
--Nick
http://ident.cjb.net
Dunno, so far the loopholes have been few and far between. The crew seems to be more concerned with thinking its way out of a situation rather than rewriting the scenario at the end to allow them to win like in typical Star Trek episodes.
Frankly, the transporter thing basically only worked once and probably won't show up again for a while if ever. I liked the slipstream loophole because it showed the writers were thinking. What is to stop an AI from putting a brain in a jar and using it as a slipstream pilot? Nothing and the big bad resourceful AI did it. Cool, good for them for thinking about the rules of the universe and how a character would try to work around them.
Anyway, Andromeda has good points. Neitzchian culture rocks. The Magog are damn cool. It also has bad points like any show involving Beka's family. All in all I will continue to watch.
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
Hey, that's a Texan accent. The common "American accent" (e.g., the one you hear on most television shows, in movies, etc.) is Widwestern. There are tons of different American accents, though. Consider Bostonians who pronounce "Worchester" something like Elmer Fudd saying "rooster." Anyway, Canadians only have a slightly different accent than Midwesterners. Well, at least, until we get to the word "about" -- I swear if I hear someone say "ah-boot" again...
If a corporation is a personhood, is owning stock slavery?
Isn't that exactly what Babylon 5 was about?
No, people out in the maritime provinces say things like "arfter" (after) and "ruff" (roof) and just generally use too many r's. People on the prairies tend to mispronounce "bury" (e.g. rhyming with jury instead of berry). I'm not sure where "aboot" comes from. All I know is that everytime I hear someone in Manitoba say "aboot", I feel the need to hit them very, very hard.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Read the Odyssey some time.
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
We ain't speakin' no "queen's" english down in these neck of the woods boy.
Hell, I didn't even know transexuals had their own dialect.
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
Go to http://www.blakes7.com - there is talk of bringing the series back. But that has been going on for years - a friend of mine was involved with it, but not much came of the effort...
Eric Aitala
www.f1m.com
But I've heard rumors that the show contains some elements from Alan Dean Foster's "Humanx Commonwealth" series of novels, which include the great "Pip & Flinx" books. For instance, the fact that the big U.N.-style government is called the Commonwealth, and that at some point in the show they meet an insectile alien race that resembles the Thranx.
Some links to the conflict:1 7
http://www.andromedatvfans.com/thread.asp?b=2&t=1
And a call to action from the author in a letter to Sci-Fi Weekly (about 2/3 of the way down the page): http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue190/letters.html
Again, I haven't seen the show, and I've read a ton of his novels, so I'm not in a position to make a decision one way or the other. Anyone out there notice a connection?
Random Musings at Rum Smuggler
...is about as exciting as, well, something that's really not very exciting at all. In fact, whatever the opposite of exciting is. Never seen an episode that was worth anything. Boring. (with a caital B)
"Chatty Bitch should get on IRC if he wants to talk."
"Ah-boot" is *not* how most Canadians pronounce *about*. What you are referring to is an Acadian/East coast accent, from the New Brunswick/Nova Scotia/Newfoundland areas...
You know how each episode starts with a quote? Does anyone have these collected anywhere?
Peace,
Amit
ICQ 77863057
[o]_O
Actually I was making fun of the TV producers who really have no idea where the true state of the art is at. I personally have a high regard for Gene, and his work. It was some of the most culturally shocking stuff of it's time. Remember, he got the first interracial kiss on the air...
One Token Ring to Rule them All, One Search Engine to Find Them, One WAN to bring them in, and TCP/IP Bind them...
This is not a half bad series. Started off with a good movie, and has a few really good actors working on some fairly new and relatively broad situations. They started off just going through the stargate, helped stop a rampant species from destroying everyone, and continue on from there. Not bad. A heck of a lot better than what poor Gene R.'s name is slapped on today. May he rest in peace. I can just see the TV exec meeting now. "Hey, that Gene Something-or-other guy came up with a great sci-fi that those social recluses seem to have latched on to. Let's slap his name on everything we can find from now on, and the geeks/nerds/label of the moment will never know the difference. Muhuhaha [cont. evil laughter]"
One Token Ring to Rule them All, One Search Engine to Find Them, One WAN to bring them in, and TCP/IP Bind them...
I'd rather watch Babylon 5 re-runs. I'm gonna go back to DS 9, too.
In the immortal words of Socrates, "I drank what?"
i teleported home one night with pam and sid and meg. pam stole meggie's heart away and i got sidney's leg. thank you douglas adams.
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
If you like sci-fi but yearn for better writing, clever dialog, and decent acting, you should really check out Stargate SG-1 on Showtime (also available in sindication). I didn't think much of the original movie but have been enjoying the hell out of the series. It's one of only a handful of shows that I bother to watch regularly (the others being West Wing, Simpsons, and Futurama (like you care) ). SG-1 can be a little confusing at first so it helps to watch a few episodes and you can also consult the handy FAQ at http://www.stargate-sg1.com/home/faq/index.html . [all IMHO, of course] -Brien
Actually you have the collapse of the Canadian dollar to thank for all the movie and TV filming up here. The Canadian dollar is down to about 67 cents US. Twenty-five years ago it was on a par with the US dollar. Maybe 25 years from now it'll be so low that the US will pick up what's left of the Canadian economy at fire sale prices.
I guess I'll point out the obvious: that the characters that are mere background in one episode get much more attention and development in other episodes. BTW, Rev Bem gets a lot less "silly" towards the end of the season...
I'm not sure what he's talking, uh, about, either. I've never noticed a recognizable accent from any of the actors. Of course, I'm technically a Southerner, so maybe all y'all yankees just sound alike ;-)
B5 season one was inconsistent: alternating extremely lame with very cool moments. As opposed to the recent Trek series(s), which usually have a constant simmering lameness until they get going. And as for Farscape, I think Season One may actually be my favorite.
Just because it was supposed to be set 300 years after the fall of the Federation doesn't mean it would have happend 300 yrs after ST:TOS. Gene Roddenberry could have meant it to happen thousands of years after TNG even for all we know, as far as i can tell, and all that.
-- Judas96
"...don't take a nerf bat to a knife fight." - Joe Rogan, said on News Radio
Now what is the deal here! This is nothing but a retread of 2 old Rodenbury scripts for the late 70's, both of which failed to make it as a series but did make tv movies. Genensis 2 Planet Earth The only difference is that Andromeda is set in space. The story premise is almost identical to the other 2 versions. It's just a retread, and a poor one at that. If they were going to use his old ideas how about the Questor Tapes. Chris
I have never seen or heard Seamus spouting of techno-babble, and the "Particle of the week" seems to have recieved the well needed boot as well. Perhaps I will never again hear the words "If we re-calibrate the shield harmonics to defract the phased tetrion emission, it just might work". As much as I love Scotty and LaForge, I think Seamus spends more time doing things rather than talking about them. Huzzah for that.
The chains are broken
Loki is free
Ragnarok is at hand...
...
...
Good point on the misinterpretation. Reminds you of, what?, folks who think they're 'Christians'? But notice that the Nietzcheans in the show follow premises dear to modern sociobiology (or 'evolutionary psychology' as the movement wants to change its name to to protect its feigned innocence). All the references to the genes, to the whole point of life being to serve them, are to modern pop logic what Mr. Spock was to the pop logic of rationality in the 60s, when man first dreamed the Minskian absurdity that the ultimate embodiment of humanity would be as a calculating machine.
Me, I'm betting on the one with the tail to save the universe - the closest equivalent of Kirk's emotionalism and luck. Beka as space jockey though, taken from Harrison Ford's model?
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
- Jammer's Reviews
- TrekWeb Reviews
-Chris--
Is it okay to cry "Movie!" in a crowded firehouse? --Steve Martin
You know, I was about to bash them for the ridiculous interpretation of Nietzsche. But you hit the nail on its head. The Nietzcheans got Nietzsche just as you'd expect a bunch of people who spend way too much time at the gym would get Nietzsche.
Maybe, just maybe, Nietzsche's mental collapse happened when one of the Nietzcheans went back through time to meet him.
-- look, cheese ahoy!
Before you are modded down, buddy, let me cheer you up. I once read an article about Greenspan, who was, as you might know, one of her groupies. Supposedly, she didn't like him at first, because, get this, she thought he was "a social climber". Ha Ha Ha!! What sweet ironie, and then her groupie becomes the chief governmental officer regulating the economy. LOL.
so I do know what I'm talking about when I say that Rand was evil.
I don't know if she's evil, but her books are just infantile. They appeal to teenagers at that certain point in their life when they feel that every authority figure is out there to get them. People get to read her at that stage and get hooked. I wish they were reading "Mobby Dick" or something else that can plausibly be described as literature instead.
-- look, cheese ahoy!
Ooops. That poster was clearly confused. I see now that Objectivists are really the FERENGI's ! Thanks for clearing that up.
Can you please explain what you mean by Canadian Accent? Do you mean... people who say aboot when they should say about? I must say... I've never said aboot, and I'm Canadian. The vast majority of Canadians sound like new anchors, but without the cheese.
It all says something about the human condition.
Well, speaking as a Canadian, I'd much rather hear a Canadian accent than an American one. Y'all come back now, y'ear?
Go Kathryn Thurber!
Seriously, it's a great show to watch if you like sci-fi and don't take yourself too seriously
My two cents on Andromeda... right off the bat it reminds me a great deal of Star
:)
Control 2... a ship that can no longer be built due to the state of the galaxy
comes back with higher technology and is self-charged with the task of re-uniting
the galaxy.
The plots don't always have the serious *feel* of, say, Babylon 5 or some other
sci-fi soap opera, but it's that "Hercules" spin that makes the show so enjoyable.
There is a subliminal climax that has been building for the last several episodes
as well that has made the show thoroughly enjoyable, and the latest season finale
was just incredible... and Harper is one of the coolest characters in any sci-fi I've seen...
My short summary on Andromeda: An epic-style sci-fi show with amusing characters, decent
plot, great potential for an excellent plot (possibly on par with the plot of B5).
My only problem with it is the showtimes! I'm never home when it's on...
~- Llah -~
I MEAN... HEY! The Nietzcheans would make Ayn Rand screach in disgust! They aren't capitalists-- they're slave-makin', thieving, double-talking dishonorable jerks! How could these genetically engineered morons read Rand and act like such schmeg-heads! They act like IRS field agents!
OK, I can tell that most of y'all never finished Atlas Shrugged (or couldn't get it), but Objectivism (Randism) goes about like so:
1. There is a reality which all our wishing and praying won't change.
2. Self-esteem is good. Ego is good. Reasoned self-interest is good, unless you violate #3. We should want to survive and thrive. Individualism, personal liberty, and freedom are our only birthrights.
3. We don't have any right that takes away someone else's rights nor should anybody else screw with ours. (We shouldn't steal, not even with the government's help). Taxation should be voluntary.
4. Money is our key to freedom, as commerce should be completely voluntary. People can work together, voluntarily (GPL!) and that's great, but laws that take away our rights are bad.
There are some corollaries to these, like Atheism, Libertarianism, and the evil of Socialism and other means of screwing the lucky and/or capable members of society.
Oh, and yeah she was pretty skeptical of mega-corporations without an individual owner that claim only to be out for the 'good of the stockholders' or the 'public good'. In her books sooner or later the CEO and board members try to screw everybody using the government!
-- mycr0ft
(BTW Frederich Nietzsche is totally contrarian to objectivism anyway, since he babbles about mysticism and destiny and graced superiority and other such crap.)
Me physicist. Me make rockets.
Yes! Simply by having a character who by most folks (even by Rand, if she was alive) is considered an immoral jerk, they have impuned objectivism/radical-capitalism. But hey all the rest of the Rodenberry world is anti-capitalist! Remember the Ferengi in ST:TNG? The Orion Traders in TOS? Aren't all the good-guys in Trek self-less and loathesome of money? (Janeway, most recently made me sick) turns my stomach. --mycr0ft A sci-fi fan wishing more Heinlein would be made into movies.
Me physicist. Me make rockets.
I like the show. I pretty much agree, some shows are embarrassing, but luckily others manage to push my 'interest' buttons.
Here's hoping they continue to improve in the next couple years. (Pleeeease learn from Voyager!)
James.
I've heard the same thing, though I haven't read much Nietzche.
:)
They do quote Nietzche a good bit--one of the quotes I recognized I think in the second episode "if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back" is a quote in the beginning of Baldur's Gate 1, which I thought was cool. Also sounds like a quote from the period of Nietzche's writings when he was certifiably insane
Scott
I have to say, if I had to pinpoint one thing I liked about Andromeda, it would be the Nietzcheans.
It's such a cool idea. A bunch of superhumans who organize themselves into prides, read nothing but Nietzche and Rand, and are general badasses. Some really good epsidoes have been built around Tyr and other Nietzcheans too.
Scott
It's not like the original Star Trek had good (or even decent) acting. The stories weren't much better either. I laugh often when watching the original ST now. But I enjoy it. Just like I enjoy Andromeda. Same was true with Babylon 5--baaad acting, corny jokes (especially saeason 1). I've seen every episode of bab5 up to season 5 though, and enjoyed most of them.
Watch the show for its imaginative value and the themes and what not. I think you'll enjoy more shows that way.
Scott
Well, the two shows were spaced apart by as much as 5 years, the Roddenberry pilot around 1974, and Buck Rogers around 1979...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
The Nietzscheans do indeed live in a bleak and horrible future. and you're right about Rand. and so was the original poster. :)
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
I've watched maybe a half-dozen eps. So.
I like Kevin Sorbo. I actually watched a few eps of Hercules because he was cool. The rest of the show sucked eggs, and I found something better to do when it was on, so I stopped. So that's the disclaimer.
The show's pretty good. And it doesn't remind me of Trek much at all. For lots of reasons...
Actually, if anything, it reminds me of Crusade. But that can't be right, right? I mean, it's from the Roddenberry universe, and Roddenberry's stuff had NO IMPACT on JMS?
Huh. Watch Genesis 2 sometime.
So, that said, I'd rather be watching Outer Limits. But Andromeda's pretty good.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
As to why nobody's licensed Pohl: Hollywood's still trying to turn every Phil Dick short into a Schwarzenegger blockbuster, haven't gotten to Pohl yet. :)
The Eschaton Sequence would also make a really interesting mini-series, even if they'd have to give whoever played all the Dannos a nearly-infinite amount of screentime. :) They'd probably have to use Careful Camera Angles when the humans first get captured, though.
However, perhaps Hollyrude will discover Dorsai! next. Certainly all the B5ers would eat it up.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
Much as they got, for example, Doctor Who later. ;)
On the up side (if you like the show :) I heard that Global paid for 40 eps, straight up. So it'll be around for a while. No matter what /. decides :)
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
KTXL Fox has it in my area (sacramento, ca) ... usually on sundays at 5:00pm PST
One of these days i'm going to find this 'peer' guy and reset HIS connection!
No kidding, that nubile little empathic grrrl with the tail ain't bad either.
Minor correction: In Farscape, it's called a starburst, not a slipstream.
Now, having said that, and having seen episodes of Andromeda, Farscape, Stargate SG-1, etc., I have to say that my personal favorite is Farscape. I can't really explain why... but I really disliked the Stargate movie and the series, with the exception of RDA, didn't impress me. Andromeda is on a wierd time for me (I also work the graveyard shift, which doesn't help), so I rarely get to watch it, but it isn't bad. It could be much worse, say Voyager-class bad.
Earth: Final Conflict, which is the only other "Rodenberry" series besides the Star Trek ones that I've seen, impressed me a lot more then Andromeda though. I'm a big fan of conspiracies, and I love any sci-fi series that has connected episodes, of which E:FC had many. ST:NG, Voyager, and most of DS9 didn't. (Farscape, so far, does it pretty well too, although it has a number of stand-alone episodes.)
I suppose I really like Farscape because it's realistic. Okay, yes, it's sci-fi. But the crew actually doesn't get along. They fight each other even when they're not being mind-controlled. They have arguements, and there's actual emotion, as opposed to a crew of however-many on the Enterprise who never ever fight with each other (unless mentally controlled).
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
It's a bit sad to see Roddenberry's name attached to this show... this is the kind of show I'd expect the Sci-Fi Channel to churn out... Roddenberry shouldn't be credited with this nasty little show, it would be better credited as:
"Gene Roddenberry's Napkin Sketching At 2am; Andromeda"
In the name of all that is sacred and holy in the world of sci-fi... please stop trying to milk Gene's notes for another series... there's a reason he never followed thru on this series I'm guessing.
Well, the one things that's always infuriated me about SG1 is the simple fact that McGyver^H^H^H^H^H Richard Dean Anderson always gets the best lines. Why? Because he's also "Executive Producer". He also seems to be the main focus of the whole TV show... and that irritates me because there are other characters in the show much more deserving of screen time.
There are exceptions to this rule... but the problem is that they are just that; exceptions! SG-1 is enjoyable in its own right, but often seems to sacrifice an otherwise good story idea for the sake of RDA's ego.
Andromeda is actually pretty enjoyable... and though I also came into it having avoided Hercules like the plague (I even hated the concept), I still find myself looking at Dylan Hunt and wonder when he's going to run around brandishing a sword. The science is laughable... but isn't it in much sci-fi these days? Yes, Andromeda's derivative of Star Trek, but most TV sci-fi these days is simply because ST had a successful formula and people want a piece of the pie... and as long as sci-fi fans demand more of that formula there'll be more derivatives.
Even the great Farscape (one of my favorite shows on TV) is often a little derivative of ST... but it manages to bring enough good science and good science fiction together with a very strong character-driven story that it manages to elevate itself WAY above the standard formula. I also like the fact that in Farscape every action has a knock-on effect... no story stands alone like in the ST universe... and the crew is rarely left unchanged at the end of a single episode. People pay for mistakes... and main characters have given their lives in the past with no chance of their return... sure one character died and was resurrected... but there WAS a major price to be paid... THAT I like. That's good story-telling.
Looks like my $0.02 worth has been exhasusted...
One night while talking in his sleep he uttered on distinct word, Andromeda.
> LEXX was, perhaps, the WORST "sci-fi" show I'd
> ever seen (which is saying a lot) I'd take 5
> EFC/Andromeda-type series over that tripe...
Silly little boy. Some day you'll grow pubic hairs, your voice will deepen, and you'll realize there is another reason to watch Lexx, much like there is reason to watch Cleopatra 2525, or the last few seasons of Star Trek: Voyager, or Xena and Gabrielle, or La Femme Nikita.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
That is simply not true. I have a few friends who have downloaded the divx encodings of the eps. I also know a couple of prominent encoders who encode eps of Andromeda. Want proof? Check out any one of the many Sci-Fi episode channels on Dalnet. Even the people that make divx rips of every show on tv won't rip that crap.
Sometime between 6:00PM - 9:00PM Central Time it is shown on WGN.
Think of what she could do with that tail. It would be...interesting...
This show proves if you mix the best parts of Sci-Fi into one series, well you get something that looks like a pile of vomit being played with by a mesomorphic Ally McBeal. I've seen the show a few times.
Quest:Voyager
Special Effects:Babylon5
Characters: Anyone a UPN (Ugly People Network) Plus the show is a direct ripp off of Farscape.
"Get them before they get....
No those shows, while cheesy, are waaayyyy better than andromida.
After reading the review and then some of the comments it sounds to me like everyone is saying "If I close my eyes and put my hands over my ears it's almost good." This series is a typical corporate product from a group of like-minded idiots that believe that if you glue together some special effects with pretty people you don't need to have a good plot. This show is pure crap.
It would have been interesting to see where the races would have gone 300 years after. If you want to know the basic ideas behind this crazy race you can read this bit about Friedrich Nietzsche and his ideas
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Interesting, she was also in Tek War (William Shatners' gig) and Earth:Final Conflict.
Hmmm, it seems like they might be having an actor/actress shortage.
Want to break into acting/tv? Don't go to Hollywood, go to CANADA!
The Science is their but it presupposes AI survives the Age of Windows where solid logic is replaced by topheavey languages whose programs don't demonstrate all their gliches til years later.
I used to think B5 sucked until I saw enough of them. It seems to be a recapitulation of Asimov's foundation philosophy. I got interested when I heard that it was created in large part using 5 Amiga 'Toasters' & then hung around for story developement. The characters could do with a little more developement but considering the extent of the story it might be forgiven. I was never into following characters to the toilette anyway but I can see where some artsey types might.
Ah. I don't know about your taste but the women that plays Andromeda is very hot...
That is very interesting. Please, tell me more.
Nothing without weasels can compare to Beastmaster.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
I was going to mention the excellent fantasy novels by Robert Jordan (and their plethora of apostrophe'd names) but everyone on the net seems to hate them. Oh well.
I agree, BTW SG1 is quite a bit more sci-fi oriented than the movie (thank God).
--
--
"You know you want me, baby." --Crow
About transporter technology, I've been thinking about the Heisenberg problem. Note: the technology to do this probably won't be around for many a century, but the theory is sound, so here it is. The problem is that when you try to figure out the location of a particle is and what it's kinetic energy and trajectory is that you end up having to bounce another particle off of it, or doing something else that will change it's position, K.E., and trajectory. Well here's my idea; every particle has mass and all mass creates a gravitational field around it; no matter how small, it is there. So what if, instead of bouncing particles off of particles, you surrounded the object you wished to transport with passive (for the most part) gravitational field sensors that would detect the mass, position, velocity and trajectory of the particles within the object that you wanted to transport. Now I say "passive (for the most part)" because to detect a gravitational field you do end up having to interact with it, however, gravity is the weakest of the four fundamental forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear and weak nuclear) and as such the interactions would be extraordinarily minute and the alterations to the particles position, K.E., etc... would also be minute, it would be there, but it would be manageable. Not like the alterations that would be made by a magnetic resonance imager or a scanning electron microscope, not by far. We have just dealt with the problem by real physics, not by a starfleet engineer saying the magic words "Heisenberg compensator" and not giving another nuance of explanation to the problem. Now, it would still never be used to transport a human; something as sensitive to, say, a few misplaced cells in the wall of a capillary in the brain (OOPS! aneurysm), but it could be used to transport a cargo of ore, some water, in general anything that wouldn't be dramatically affected by a few misplaced atoms, molecules or the occasional long carbon chain.
For example, I remember hearing years ago about a show that Gene wanted to make about aliens who come to Earth and seem to be friendly and to bring peace and prosperity and the advantages of their technology, etc. etc. But they also have some "evil" enemies that they need humanities help fighting. The premise was, I think supposed to be that humanity realized that they were being taken advantage of, and managed to throw them out with the help of the aliens enemies, who promptly moved in and took up the exact same position. It seems to me that the show idea I heard about was turned into Earth: Final Conflict. Obviously it's changed a lot, but the basic idea seems to be there.
Basically, Gene is producing new TV shows the same way that L. Ron Hubbard is writing new books.
I like it. All SF can't be the cream of the crop, but good journeyman quality stuff is imporant, and this show fits that bill. There is some good SF here, some cheeze, and some comedy...and it beets most sitcoms and drams on the TV today.
And as for Majel, she is a wonderful person. I met her at a convention in Montreal a few years ago, and she really cares about what the fans think of the shows created by her late husband, Gene, and of Science Fiction in General. Back when there was a lot of conflict between Babylon 5 fans and STrek fans, she agreed with JMS do a part in a B5 show to demonstrate that B5 was an O.K. show to like, and both STrek fans and B5 fans show learn to appreachiate each other's shows.
I'm a fan of The Old Series, and of the follow ons, I am also a B5 fan. And I like Andromeda. I am just tired of people who dis things just to make themselves look important, like the Rolling Stone used to do with album reviews.
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Yes, there are accents in the US, but it's not one single accent, and most of them do not sound like Dukes of Hazzard hillbilly.
I'm from South Dakota, and within South Dakota there are three distinct accents - Black Hills, East River and Rez (Rex being those from the Indian Reservations). Why I say this, is last weekend I went back to South Dakota for a wedding, and all the major accents were present for the wedding.
I have a bit of the Rez accent, along with some Black Hills, while my sister whom is living East River and on a Reservation, has some East River, Rez and a bit of the Minnesooota to her accent.
The same is true on a broader scale for the entire country. People from the south do not all sound alike. If all the states are as diverse as South Dakota, there's a whole bunch of accents. And I'd hope that in Canada there are as many differences as there are in the US.
Why was it worth anybody's time to write a review of this horrible piece of crap? I *SO* wish this show would just go away, and everybody could just forget it ever existed, so we could all reflect fondly on the era of the 80's and 90's where Science Fiction nearly gained mainstream acceptance on television.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
*cough*
ROTFL
;P
Silly pubescent teen. Someday you'll stop playing "choke the chicken" to mere TV shows and notice that there are *real* women in the world that will perform that service for you
[ quotes out of order ;) ]
hmm..perhaps its time for some absestos underwear, I feel things getting a little toasty
LOL - claiming that because someone really, REALLY dislikes a show they lack a sense of humor will generally get you some flames, yes =)
I mean come on, there is something strangely humorous about a dead guy, a janitor, a severed robot head, and a chick who was turned into a love slave as punishment, all stuck on a bug looking ship.
Yes, the situation itself could be quite humorous - if it was carried off with any talent at all. I'm not so sure the problem is with the actors though - I'm more inclined to think the reason the series is SO bad is they lack talented writers.
Although, the basic setting (minus the sex) was done before, in a show called Red Dwarf. =)
What's Majel whatshername's involvement in all this stuff? Does she spend all day digging through the attic for lost scripts? Or has 'Gene R.' just become a sort of brand name for random new sci-fi?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
I ask as someone who likes good science fiction - and also quality works from other genres - and is consistently disappointed by 95% of the sci-fi I see. (Last good sci-fi film? Gattaca. And I got bored of the Star Wars franchise when I stopped being a teenager.)
It was a joke I first heard from a Russian friend in the 80s. I've seen it a couple times since, but never found an original source.
spawn_of_yog_sothoth
But never retold in nearly as entertaining a fashion as in...
Chelloveck
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
I only saw half of one episode, so I was never really sure of the premise before reading this review. Still, of what I saw, much of the dialog was rhetoric about what a great and moral people the Confederation was, and how the captain was going to uphold their ethics at any cost. From that ep, it had sounded like the Confederation was still a going concern.
So, given that the Confederation collapsed n-years ago and Andromeda and her captain seem to be the last remnants of it, what's his goal? Is he trying to rebuild the Confederation? If so, how does he intend to do so by flying around from rock to rock? Or is he just playing interstellar evangelist, pulling into town, moralizing a bit, and leaving again?
That's a serious question, BTW. I actually liked the show (in my own twisted way, much as I also enjoyed "Space Rangers") but knowing what he's trying to accomplish would probably help.
Chelloveck
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
As you might have guessed, I'm not a fan of ... with two legs ...
... speaking english. I also
Star Trek. Largely this has to do with
cartoonish Sci-Fi. I hate all these masked
actors pretend to be aliens
and two hands
dislike Roddenbery's humanist message:
nothing wrong with the message except it
constantly smells of moralizing.
That said, I watched Final Conflict for a while.
The first season was strong because aliens were
kept to a minimum and looked like an excuse to
explore human drama. As well, they had hints
dropped of mysteries and villainous nature of
aliens. There were no good guys and bad guys,
it was all in question. Then they started to
featire aliens more, answered a few key questions,
killed off the most talented cast members
replacing them with people who have no concept
of acting and now the show is unwatchable.
I did watch Andromeda a bit mostly because ny
local station runs the episodes at 2am when I come
home from work. The show displays complete lack
of imagination. Suffice it to say that one alien
species is an overgrown bug and you can see the
plastic costume on a human actor. Character
interaction is mostly a moralizing tripe. In fact
the only characters that look human are the
Nietzcheans. They hold grudges, conflict with
each other and are generally bastards enough.
Tyr is probably the best acted character too.
I guess Dylan Hunt in a totally Nietzchean world
would make for a good show about why Roddenbery's
ideals don't work. But alas, the script makes
Mr. Hunt into a sort of a hero, rather than a
lunatic that he is.
I would be even shallow enough to watch the show
if some hot booty was on display. Unfortunately
the cast is lacking in that department too.
er.... Jesuits...
/bit/ silly.
They are a
The secret of success is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake those, you've got it made. (Marx)
Or, "pizza boy falls into suspended animation unit and awakens 1,000 years later."
But at least it has Bender!
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
True enough.
But it's on FOX (broadcast TV) where I live. I don't watch enough TV to justify the cost of cable.
Sure, Andromeda is cheezy, but compared to [each month's variant of] "Survivor" and "Millionaire", I hope they drag Gene's name through the mud a few more times.
Better cheezy sci-fi than no sci-fi at all.
So I was sitting here reading these messages, 'Androm is a hash of [insert 5 household name scifi shows/books, etc here].' And I thought, 'So? Where's the suprise?'.
In music there is a long tradition of being influenced by other peoples works and doing your own riffs off of an existing work. Noone points a finger and says, "You're ripping off Louis Armstrong!" when they go to listen to a jazz artist.
I vividly recall in school during english class when they explained that every book is based on one of essental conflicts. Man vs Man, Man vs himself, Man vs Nature, or Man vs Machine. (Yes, you can animorphize something else, but it still has man-like qualties, or we would not be able to relate to it. The truly alien is, well, alien.) I was devistated. What point was there in reading books anymore? I mean, they were all the same in the end. Eventually I learned to celebrate the differences in books, even books that were very close to each other had huge differences in the details. And that's one of the reasons I read, to be absorbed into a captivating universe. If I'm lucky, I might see 12 completely origial books in my life (arguably original. I personally believe when something's original enough to be considered a new genre, it's original. I know a lot of lit majors who'd disagree. So be it.) does that mean I should forsake all non orignal books? Of course not. Does that make the orginals better? Nope. I know a lot of people who can't stand Neuromancer (admitably, probably not a lot in this crowd, but still), and by my previous definition it was Original.
The point of this rather roundabout naritive is that something does not have to be totally original to be enjoyable. Take delight in revisiting an old friend, looked at from a slightly different angle.
This is the same problem we have with intelectual propiety. There are a finite number of good ideas in the universe, the longer we go aorund saying, "this good idea is mine!" the smaller the remaining solution space for the function H(idea_number) becomes, the the more likely that n is going to hash close enough to n-1 to infringe. Common sense.
Common sense isn't. -- Voltaire
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Remove the rocks to send email
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
Like, with trek, how many nose and forehead prosthetics can we dream up? Plots good for one sitting.
... open ended, nothing canned.
Andromeda's not bad. Different feel without the intellectual depth of Zena. [grin]
I guess sg's cool because the good guys don't have the technical advantage and have to scrap it out. Just like real people. The cultural diversity (alien species) angle is handled way better, more variety, more depth and always a sense that there's more to an alien society than what can be told in a single episode
I guess that's a good point too, about serialized dramas. The set up needs to be such that enables the writers to tell a variety of stories.
Another nice thing about stargate is that they aren't stuck on some damn spaceship forever.
I found Andromeda more entertaining than any of the Star Trek series. They got very boring after there first seasons. It is one of the few shows I watch on a regular basis.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
The show's production company has a local listings page. Good for U.S. channels only.
Proud to be / Smiley-free / Since Nineteen / Ninety-Three
Oh yeah! She can ride my rocket any day of the week.
Yes. To be precise, those two things are:
It's good that they're not relying on boguson particles to save the day, but that by itself does not mean they have good science.
quantum slipstream? I could have sworn I had heard the term beforeYes. You heard it before on Star Trek. I'm pretty sure that Voyager even phase modulated the quantum sliptream at some point. The horror!
That detail being that the Magog character has found "the Way" to overcome his beastly nature and wears a pendant with the AA symbol around his neck. This counterpoint between his nature and his conscience while in some ways similar to the early struggle that the Vulcan race was said to go through, differs in this case because the battle is being won by spiritual means rather than pure reason.
The closer to your soul you choose your goal, the nearer to your heart the work can start.
I watch Andromeda and Earth Final Conflict for two reasons...
1: Theres almost NO sci-fi on right now, its all lawyer, doctor, or sex shows.
2: While they aren't that great -- these shows really are the best thing on television during the saturday afternoon CRAPORAMA. Saturday afternoon is really a wasteland for quality programming, and even something like Andromeda and EFC where they've made 3/4ths of an effort really stands out amongst the "Private Benjamin" saturday movie and the body by jake infomercials.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
My problem with these shows is, first of all, they're targeted towards women and gay men with all their touchy feely crap :) Second of all -- Most of the shows are just about sex. I've had sex, I don't need to see a show about it. If I wanted to see T&A I'd pop a porno and watch that.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
Her involvement with EFC has been variable over the lifetime of the show, and I don't know what her current involvement level is with Andromeda, but my understanding in general is that she wants to ensure that the shows stay true to Gene's vision.
JMS is really talented guy, scripting entire series of B5 and finding time to answer his fans through all of it.
On the other hand, Roddenberry is a producer who had one good idea his whole life and milked it for all its worth. Other than Star Trek, he's produced nought but scores of second rate, short lived sci fi series.
3 series but one idea - Star Trek. Most of his other ideas whether alive or dead at the time have amounted to little.
Forgive me I meant season. He wrote an entire season though I can't recall offhand which one.
One thing I've personally enjoyed about Andromeda is that the writers seem to know a thing or two about science. For example, look at the episode with the teleporter. The big argument against Trek's transporters has always been the uncertainty principle. Usually everyone just shrugs and points out that mainstream TV audiences don't know anything about physics, so just let them be dumb and happy.
On Andromeda, when Harper proudly announces that he's constructing a teleporter, the first thing Beka says is "don't look now, but Dr. Heisenberg wants to have a word with you." No long explanation of the principle, they just figure we're intelligent enough to get it. Nice to be treated as an intelligent person by prime time television for a change.
They did take a bit of time to explain quantum entanglement, though. I had recently read the Slashdot story about it, and thought it was interesting to see that show up. The whole time travel thing got a bit weird, though.
Anyone know about quantum slipstream? I could have sworn I had heard the term before this show started. I want to say it's a real theory, but I'm not sure.
Overall, the way I describe Andromeda to people is "good writing, crappy production". Too much T&A factor for my taste (like what TNT did to season 5 of B5), and I think the space sequences could use some improvement. Like the episode where another ship was destroyed 5 light minutes away, and the AI had to remind the captain that he couldn't do anything to help, since the images they were seeing were 5 minutes old. (Yes! Writers who know about the speed of light!) But I think the exterior animation showed them considerably closer than 5 light minutes apart. sigh...
But, for me, ANdromeda has failed to not suck for the most part. Or, to be clearer, it has not declined to prevent itself from avoiding not being the opposite of not blowing.
Or something.
They had a limitation to the Slipstream that I found neat: only an organic pilot could navigate it. This keeps it from being all magical like in Star Trek. They made a loophole to that in the tenth episode. And I think that they started the series with no transporters, but they invented one in episode three or four which, by the way, also lets you travel through time. And of course it was the second time travel episode so far.
I don't know. Maybe I'll catch a particularly good episode one of these days and get back on the wagon... but not today.
"The year is 1987 and NASA launches the last of America's deep space probes. In a freak mishap Ranger 3 and its pilot Captain William 'Buck' Rogers are blown out of their trajectory into an orbit which freezes his life support systems and returns Buck Rogers to Earth 500 years later."
cue cheesey theme music
The actors all have names that were thought out way too much: "Trance Gemini", "Seamus Zelazy Harper", "Beka Valentine", "Tyr Anasazi". The names remind me of bad fan fiction.
At least the names don't have random apostrophes insert into the name. Memo to frustrated writers out there: If you have a name with an apostrophe, that's a good indicator that your novel sucks. I don't think it's a coincidence that Star Trek Voyager had a major character with an apostrophe'd name. You could've predicted the series was going to be lacking just based on that.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
This pilot failed to sell (in an era dominated by Planet of the Apes and Bionics), but the series concept was tried once more as Planet Earth which also did not sell. Majel starred in both of them.
There's also the small fact that Star Trek itself is derivative of the sci-fi influences in Gene Roddenberrys life. I mean, was Star Trek really the first sci-fi concept with space ships that "warped"? Or energy beam weapons? Or dematerializtion devices? Or computers that talked? Or alien races? Or "federations" of space faring creatures?
People who think so, clearly don't read much classic sci-fi.
And I'm not saying this to knock Roddenberry, to this day I rewatch the original and the next generation(I can't stomach Voyager, although Deep Space 9 had it's shining moments). Star Trek was/is a cool and innovative concept, both in it's original form, and in the next generation incarnation, but the technologies and elements that each one was built on were far from ground breaking or unique, from a sci-fi perspective. From a tv perspective, of course it looks like the father of all sci-fi.
Show me an effect without cause and then I'll believe in chaos.
I think that the Heechee saga (about 4-5 books) would make a really cool movie or series. Wonder why nobody's picked it up?
"sweet dreams are made of this..."
I had a similar reaction to the X-files (thought it was dumb but got into it several years after it started).
Anyway I think I've seen the whole third year and still like it a lot. In fact, I'm thinking about getting the original trilogy of movies on DVD.
I think they've got a really interesting cast of characters with the cowardly security guard, the sweet/lizardly sex goddess and cool dead-guy.
The only thing I think sucks is the damn robot head. They should edit that out!
Besides they have cool CGI.
"sweet dreams are made of this..."
To sum up rambling: Ok show, if I run into it again I will give it a go.
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--hongpong.com
I'm sick to death of darkly brooding, overly simplified alien characters who are dominated by their need to struggle over their particular cultural/religious heritage. They are supposed to be complex and interesting because they have these complex, interesting ethnic problems. But whether it's Worf the brooding Klingon, or the brooding sword-wielding guy on Farscape, or the brooding guy on Andromeda always trying to out-macho Sorbo, they're just as boring as darkly brooding people in real life.
If I did have to choose an oversimplified alien from tv it would be Quark. He may have been predictable, but at least he wasn't brooding.
What network is this on? I've never even heard of this show. I'm very interested in seeing it, and yes thats just because of the Gene R. branding. Final Conflict wasn't quite star trek but was still cool; i have high hopes for this. So where can I see it?
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The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
OMG! It's Hercules in space!
They could at least have cut his hair, sheesh
"read nothing but Nietzche and Rand"
You don't mean Ayn Rand, do you? What a bleak and horrible future they live in! And before I get downmodded, I'd like to point out that I read - voluntarily - all of Atlas Shrugged, including the 40-page monologue on the evils of anything other than pure cutthroat capitalism, so I do know what I'm talking about when I say that Rand was evil. Evil I say! I still have a hangover from that book, and I read it two years ago.
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Is he amoral then? Or is he simply passive? I seek clarification.
I'm the stranger...posting to
But the plot stank, and was a cruddy form of propaganda for objectivism. I never impugned the philosophy.
I'm the stranger...posting to
The other reason Atlas Shrugged appeals to teens (and this is why I read it) is that the female lead is hornier than the entire population of Slashdot combined.
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Do you know who said it? Just curious.
I'm the stranger...posting to
One big difference with Star Trek is that on Andromeda they don't solve their difficulties by "magic", i.e. they don't suddenly realize that they can 'convert their deflector array into an ice cube maker & chill out the attacking aliens'. Also Andromeda isn't as concerned with the characters personal lives---it's an action/adventure show.
p.s. the official web site for the show is http://www.andromedatv.com
Chris
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
Andromeda is one of the few shows I will skip out of work early for. I'm impressed by the dialog wrt military conduct and discipline. Sounds like it's been ripped right out of the Senior Leadership manual....the Canadian Senior Leadership manual, of course.
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
It doesn't hurt that hologram personifying the ship is pretty hot.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The series has not disappointed me too much. I has weaknesses, but I'll still watch it. One of the great weaknesses of Star Trek was the infalibility of the federation and the perfection of the technology (to the point where they had to dream up inplausable problems to fause failures in unbelievable technology...). The ST:DS9 series sort adressed the political infalibility of the federation, but Andromeda, has a highly falible set of characters, political climate, and technology. It makes for much greater potential for good storylines, which raises the question, Why fall back on the Rodenbury standby of Time Travel?
Having said that, by far the best part of the Andromeda series is Lexa Doig. What can I say? she's really cute.
--CTH
---
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
...and the jury is still out. I was just getting to the point of not really being interested in it, but then the season finale came out and really kicked some butt. There is some interesting character development going on, and things are starting to come together.
I'm going to give season two a chance. But as I think back, I think that Star Trek TNG's first season: LAME, Star Trek: DS9 First Season: Oh, my god, this is LAME. Voyager: Took a few seasons and Seven of Nine (not for her boobs) to drag it out of the LAME pile to the passable pile.
It always seems that the syndicated Sci-Fi shows always suffer from budget crunches the first season or so, and then take off. Then just as they reach their break even point for syndication is when they are getting good.
Babylon 5 and Farscape are the only two I can think off that don't fit that mold.
TomAs a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Andromeda is based on a concept of Gene Roddenberry's originally intended for the Star Trek universe. It's 300 years after the Federation has fallen.
I guess Paramount wasn't interested, so somebody else did it.
(In case there are a few people that don't realize it, Gene Roddenberry is the creator of Star Trek. Majel is his widow, the voice of most computers and Deanna Troi's mother.)
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"Ain't no right way to do a wrong thing."
Or perhaps I see where the writers misinterpreted Nietzche accidentally. Nietzche was an advocate of something he called "the will to power", especially when carried out by something he called the "overman" or "superman". The problem is, first of all, that "the will to power" does not neccessarily mean power over other people, but also over oneself. It refers to a high degree of self-control, something /. would benefit from. :-) Compare that with the Nietzcheans, who are hardly restrained in their interactions with each other.
t i=761572710 )
Furthermore, I thought that the "overman" had a higher degree of moral development, but not necessarily physical development, according to Nietzche. I could be wrong on that one, though.
If anyone wants a quick overview of Nietzche, Encarta actually has a nice little article. ( http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&
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