Slashdot Mirror
Russian SLBM Launches Solar Sail
Barbarian writes: "CNN reports that a Russian Submarine has launched a rocket containing a solar sail payload sucessfully. The mission is a 30 minute sub-orbital test. space.com has more details on the craft." Our earlier story. Another submitter noted that today is the 25th anniversary of the landing of the Viking 1 Mars probe. JPL has a Mars site, which is not responding as I write this. Maybe the Martians got to it. :)
Oh, and lets not forget
first dead astronaut/cosmonaut.
You don't always want to be first.
Plus tacking between solar systems will add an awefull lot of distance and time to the trip.
The sail would get all tangled up in the trees when you try backing it out of the driveway. That's why.
First off, its not moving when they launch. Second, i'd imagine that they used it because they were able to get their hands on and modify an icbm from one, take a missile, remove the payload, insert the new payload.
Also, it seems that they wanted it to land somewhere in Eastern Russia, and it was such a short flight that I don't think it was going to orbit the earth. The submarine allows them to move to a location to the west so that they can better place its landing distance.
Solar sails do NOT use the solar wind for any signifigant portion of their impulse. They use light.
Photons hit sail. Photons impart energy (mass x velocity) to sail. Sail goes one way, photons go the other.
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
Better to say, photons impart momentum to sail. You can't calculate their momentum from mass x velocity -- they're massless, relativistic particles.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Um, unless I'm mistaken, isn't today also the anniversary of the first landing on the moon?
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CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
No, no, the politics are good!
In the Cold War, mankind went from nothing in space to men walking on the moon in a dozen years-- the Russians put up a satellite, and the Americans were scared.
Now that we're all _friends_, it's taking us longer than that to put up a space station. We probably _can't_ go back to the moon today.
Politics can be a good thing...
The site is down!? Maybe Mars is going to attack the "whitehouse" because of our pesky "Code Red" problem.
Let's hope that Dubya remembered to bring his favorite Slim Whitman LP. "When I'm Calling You"
-S
Scott Ruttencutter
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
Sub-orbital doesn't mean you didn't enter space - it means you didn't enter space with enough velocity to orbit the earth. Alan Sheppard (the first American in space) ahd a suborbital flight in the mercury program.
This test flight was only meant to ensure that the solar sail unfurls correctly IIRC. Be that as it may you would still be affected by solar 'wind' in a suborbital flight, just not as much as in you would in an orbital flight. This is especialy true of an extra-orbital flight outside the effect of the earth's magnetic field.
-Shieldwolf
just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
It was launched by the planetary society (of which I am a member) founded by Carl Sagan.
/ headlines/2001/launch_go.htm
Detail about the flight can be found here: http://www.planetary.org/html/news/articlearchive
It is one of the first non-government AND non-profit private ventures into space. It also marks the first solar sail launch into space (although the launch is sub-orbital).
-Shieldwolf
just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
As it is being launched from an intercontinental ballistic missile, does this mean that "son of starwars" should have tried to shoot it down;-)
Russia loves to be first in space.
first orbit
first man
first woman
first space walk
first paying customer
first sail!!!!!!
forget politics! celebrate advancement
whoever does it!!!!!
Why is this being launched from a submarine?
Why not? Anyway it's easier to get an optimal launch position from a ship.
Why make an experiment more complicated than it has to be? "I know, lets launch it from a moving submerged vehicle"
The speed of the sub is trivial compared with that of the rocket.
Also maybe the Russians wanted to show that their SLBM systems still worked, in the light of the US detaining one of their citizens.
>Solar Sails would never be able to push the craft faster than light so it's doubtful that the technology could take humans to other solar systems and back like we drive to the corner store.
:)
True.. then again, you won't make it to lightspeed with any known technique. Now if we could just control mass (say.. reduce it to 0), you'd be at lightspeed in no time
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
I also hope a civilian wasn't at the helm at the time...
Note to moderators... the parent post, depending on how patriotic you feel towards the US of A, might just be construed as "Funny", and not as "Offtopic" or "Flamebait"... If it was about Microsoft, it'd be +5 right now and you know it!
Wah!
Wah!
Actually, this is a reasonable question.
Launching from a sub offers a number of things.
1) mobility (potentially better choice of latitude)
2) a reasonably safe environment to splash and/or crash
if something goes wrong. The trajectory was sub-orbital
so presumably a failure would mean a quick return trip.
All in all, launching from the ocean is more
convenient than land if you discount the infrastructure
required to make it happen.
The article is correct, solar wind is a stream of protons not photons.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Doesn't anyone find it suspicious that the Russians launch a missile just days after one of their citizens is capriciously arrested in the United States?
They must be firing a warning shot across our national bow! The solar sail story was a sham, we have been served notice!
(tee hee)
Or maybe it was the Slashdotters who wanted to beat the rush.
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
I hope they double checked to make sure they weren't underneath any japanese fishing boats
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/bin/fortune | slashdotsig.sh
Aren't we also on a mission from God?
I just read Planet of the Paes. There's a cool solar sail in that.
Karma: T-rexcellent.
Cosmos 1's ride into sub-orbital flight came hitched to a modified intercontinental ballistic missile.
"ST: First Contact" and Zefram Cochrane, anyone?
Maybe the Vulcans will pick this one up.
-jKarma: T-rexcellent.
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
The Anti-Blog
If you don't understand how space news is "stuff that matters" ... [Wanders off, shaking head]
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
When a reflective sail is hit by photons, the force generated varies with the angle of the sail (i.e. the sail is pushed normal to the plane of the sail). When a sail is non-reflective, the incoming particles 'stick', transferring their momentum in the direction they were travelling, i.e. radially from the sun.
Another submitter noted that today is the 25th anniversary of the landing of the Viking 1 Mars probe.
Today is the 32nd anniversary of the landing of Apollo 11 on the moon. While the Viking 1 lander was significant, it's pretty hard to beat the first landing by any human being on another world ever. I guess it must be ancient history or something.
"Bite me, it's fun!" - Crowe T. Robot
The purpose of the flight is to test the deployment mechanism of the sail.
It's 106 miles to Mars. We have a full sail of sunlight, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. HIT IT!
This ought to be interesting to watch... a solar sail that didn't come out of an SF book. I like. The romance of space is not dead.
/Brian
Solar sail technology looks cool (cheap, free fuel, less bulk) but for some reason I think I'd still prefer the reassuring vibrations of a real engine. Solar Sails would never be able to push the craft faster than light so it's doubtful that the technology could take humans to other solar systems and back like we drive to the corner store.
Still, it'll be interesting to see where the scientists can take these ideas, a relaxing silent luxury cruise to Mars anyone? =)
WEll, we are! At least on the Seven seas...
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, here, but solar a sail works because it is being bombarded by *photons*, not protons...
--CTH
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--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
It would take a mega huge solar sail to move anyone on earth because the air resistance, ground friction, and the fact that there is less light due to atmospheric refraction and absorbtion. Plus no one could go out at night:)
As x approaches total apathy I couldn't care less.
Okay, this was kinda funny, but I just want to point out that it is impossible to tack with a solar sail in space.
:)
On a sailboat, tacking works because the wind coming at an angle across the sail bellies it out into a wing-like shape, with the front of the sail being curved like the top of a wing. Just like on an airplane, this creates an area of lower pressure, which pulls the boat forward. Also, the large keel on the sailboat keeps it from just being pushed sideways.
In space, apart from no-one being able to hear your screams, no-one can provide a medium in which a keel will work. As well, the aerodynamic properties that make tacking possible just don't apply, as there is not medium in which a lower pressure can be made (except, of course, the ether...
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
Why is this being launched from a submarine? Are there extra points for the higher degree of difficulty? Why make an experiment more complicated than it has to be? "I know, lets launch it from a moving submerged vehicle"
May you got good points but wrong place, wrong time
learn how to read
my 2 cents plus 2 more
Man I bet I could get the russians to let me ride in one of their MIG fighters for some cash if they are willing to let these bozos launch tin foil kites into outerspace!
Oh wait my bad they already do let cash paying citizens get a ride on the ultimate rollercoster!
( $10,000.00 per ticket )
http://www.rocketguy.com/rocket/mig.html
I just want to know if I can sue the Planetary Society if this dam thing falls in my backyard and kills my dog.
They just know how to apply all that what is Physics and Maths better than anyone else.
Voltaire: God is dead.
God: Voltaire is dead!
I got some "solar" wind of my own due to my last couple of meals, but rest assured that no one would wanna build a sail for it.
karma capped
So, this sounds great, a solar sail to Jupiter... wow!
But how long would it take to get to Jupiter? I didn't see any mention of speeds or estimated travel times.
And what about getting back? You can turn the "paddles" for steering, so does that mean you would use a similar strategy to sailboats tacking? How long would that take?
Another thing is, with rocket powered things we know the exact speed to use for navigation calculations. This is how photographic satellites intercepted the planets of the solar system. With something as dynamic as sailing, it seems that it would be nearly impossible to actually get to the correct point in a planet's orbit to intercept it.
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~ now you know
Ok, it's time to star-confederation contact us.
Don't worry, it'll hurt as much as an amputation
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
I know we're strange, but... Martians? c'mon... geeks are people too...
Screw 3...
why cant they use similar technology for intra-earth travel..i.e on roads? maybe i misunderstod how the propulsion system works
Democratic USA - Government of the corporations, by the Corporations, for the corporations.
err the link points to site dedicated to the sport of rugby...
Democratic USA - Government of the corporations, by the Corporations, for the corporations.
I told you us Russians would pull ahead in the space race!
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Sig
Actually it exploded during pre-flight tests in April.
."
"What the hell happened?"
"I pushed the button like you said"
"Which button?"
"The red one . .
"The solar sail launched by the russians today was fine until it unexplicably exploded 2 minutes after launch. This is a sad day for the space industry, as solar sails could have paved the way to cheap interplanetary exploration."
"In other news, Boeing announced today that they won't be conducting their planned missile defense system test today. An official at Boeing commented, 'We feel confident that our system will work. There is no reason to shoot down any more expensive American ICBMs...'"
;-)
Free as in *BUUURP!*
Why did they launch this thing from a submarine? Wouldn't it have been cheaper to launch it from land? I mean, the Russians are still using launch sites in Kazakhstan, so what's so different about this project that they wanted to launch from an SSBN?
and I still have a 56k modem :(
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article
lol, yes startx is far beyond Joe sixpacks capabilities.
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article
Linux has come a long way in terms of its GUI, and I have a feeling if Linux became mainstream it would be pre-configured and set to start in x. Any windows user could use a newer version of KDE fairly easily if it was already configured for them. If the courts decided Microsoft was a monopoly tomorrow and forced them to break up what do you think would happen? Windows would die, Linux would be the only real choice (in my opinion), especially for companies. What Geek toy could replace Linux other than a newer and beter OS not made by Micro$oft?
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article
Perhaps the Russians are trying to protect us from The Terrible Secret of Space.
Seriously though, is there any word on the cost of this device, according to space.com this thing was privately funded. Wish I had that bankroll.