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Dell Drops Linux on Desktops and Laptops
aclute sent in a bit saying that Dell is dropping Linux from desktops and laptops. They cite low demand, and they plan to continue shipping Linux on the server. I've sworn off Dell PCs since their finance dept. tried to screw me over on the laptop I leased for a few years in college (No, we never got that laptop back. Nor can we explain why you have signed confirmation that it was delivered. You owe us a year's worth of late fees). Frankly there are much less expensive places to get a Linux laptop, but those suckers with the 1600x1200 screens and the GeForce 2 video card are still super pimp.
I didn't feel they were serious about GNU/Linux. I think it was more of a market ploy. IBM may not be perfect, but at least they give back to the community in the way of good documentation, supporting their hardware, etc. That's why I bought a Thinkpad. I'd rather do business with someone who thinks my views are valid, and shows me their support with actions, than someone who doesn't believe in the ideals of the Linux world but is willing to make a quick buck off them.
And how much more effort does it take to pop in a Redhat CD to load a Linux image as opposed to popping in a Windows CD to load a windows image? This is probably because they want to use cheaper hardware... They probably want to use WinModems, WinLCDMonitor, WinSoundcard, Winkeyboard, WinMouse, WinPowerSwitch, and WinPowerCable. That way, they could make a Laptop for $35 and still sell it for $5000! That'll really push up those profit figures (until the warranty repairs start flooding in).
Michael Dell blows goats. And he chortles. And GODDAMNIT....I WON'T TOLERATE CHORTLERS!
Well, if you looked close enough and compared the prices of a latitude with Linux installed or Windows installed - you would have seen that with Linux it would costs you MORE...
So if I was in that situation - I would order it with windows, resize the Windows partition to the minimum (you never know when you need it), and install manually Linux - it's not that hard with the Dell notebooks..
Hetz (Heunique)
I'm not surprised they gave up.
I spent a lot of time trying to buy a Linux box from Dell (since I already have some with Windows, I wanted to stick with one vendor). In almost every configuration the boxes were MORE expensive than identical models with Windows. Configuration options were lacking, and the standard hardware (video cards, etc) wasn't anything to write home about.
So I gave up and bought from someone else.
Ok... You are aware that you aren't supposed to stand on laptops in order to reach up on the bookshelf right?
:)
We once had a user that did that. Stood on his laptop bag in order to reach up on a bookshelf.
The damage you describe is identical... bad display, busted keyboard.
Warranties are supposed to cover manufacturing defects. Not user stupidity.
Dell also can't get anyone locally to work Linux support for it. They had to outsource all of it. Any Linux-friendly techies got totally burned out at Dell and left circa 1999, and ever since the local Linux crowd has stayed pretty far away from them. (They have a reputation as a bit of a slave driver around here. And we remember the time Bill Gates visited Austin and stayed at Michael Dell's house.) I don't remember who they outsource Linux support to, but if that deal fell through (or the company at the other end went under), they wouldn't have much choice but to pull the plug on Linux support. They CAN'T support it internally.
Rob
Does it bother anyone else that the ability to purchase a Dell system with Linux appears to have been limited to people who already have a PC and an internet connection? OK, or maybe those who go down to the local library and use their PC and 'net connection? The printed catalogs that I used to receive in the mail never had Linux as an option except for servers.
Of course Dell never sold many Linux desktop systems. Their advertising campaign was so low key that it'd make an NSA security officer jealous.
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CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
I sent Dell asking whether I could dual boot their laptops into Windows and Linux. Got no response.
Also AFAIK, their UK website made no mention about offering Linux installed on their systems. It certainly didn't appear as a purchase option (Select Operating System:Linux -50UKPounds) when I went through the options in order to buy one.
In short, if you don't advertise or even offer the option on your website, you are unlikely to get any demand.
I don't want to install JUST Linux on my laptop, as I still need Office tools and want to play Diablo II occasionally.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
This is really a non-issue. The only people who could get Linux on a Dell had to know from the beginning that Linux was an option and know where to find the page that allowed them to select it. Dell only offered Linux in the first place as a flimsy token to open source people. Now Microsoft probably used that as a reason to not let Dell stick AOL icons on the desktop or something, so the option is gone. Is anyone really surprised?
== Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====
If you have signed confirmation, then you could have a case in small claims court. Just threatening one could cause them to relent and just replace the darn thing.
Or are we going to see Taco on Judge Judy?
Now, I doubt (God forbid) that this is typical of Dell service. I think I just caught this guy on a bad day. Also, I can see the logic of not supporting a low-volume (for Dell) OS on newer models. They have to qualify it, which takes time and money. The Optiplex GX400 is a P4 with RDRAM, so it's not just a simple upgrade. Having said that, RH 7.1 really was a slam-dunk install. The 2.4 kernel also has settings for the P4. I rebuilt the kernel with that switched on, but I didn't benchmark it. But today's announcement makes clear that the lack of Linux support wasn't merely a delay, but a hint of things to come. They've decided that Linux sales on the desktop don't justify the additional expense in qualifying the hardware and supporting it post-sale. Is that Dell's fault? Partly, maybe. But I'll bet the decision made sense in cold black, white and red.
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll
get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
I dont see any real computer company actually seriously selling Linux on their user level computers any time soon. This is not a troll, but most users dont want Linux.
I totally agree with that. It's exactly why I like Linux so much. Right now, Linux is made for people who know what they're doing and demand total control, and that's all I can ask from an OS. The only way Linux can make it into the mainstream is to become at least as dumbed-down and full of security holes as Windows, at which point I'd probably start looking for alternatives. But I don't think that will ever happen, as most Linux developers have power and security as primary design goals, not what has come to mean "ease of use" nowadays.
- Geeks buy LINUX. (Generalization, I know)
- Geeks deal with computers better than people (more generalizations), so they would order over the Web.
- Web ordering never allowed LINUX as an OS pick for desktops.
- Geeks never ordered LINUX.
Thank you. Please drive through.
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Dell's offering linux pre-installed on desktops and laptops was nothing but an attempt to gain publicity. Now that linux isn't pulling headlines, they're dropping support...
.technomancer
However, it really does cost Dell a lot to support Linux. They have to test and validate the OS with every hardware configuration they sell and note those configurations that don't work, they have to make changes to the manufacturing process to support the new OS, and they have to train and staff support lines for Linux customers, and so on.
My opinion differs.
One, Dell desktops are generally regarded among the best rated machines for PC hardware reliability. I know people that support a range (over a thousand desktops) of different PC machines day to day, week to week, year to year, and their experiences bear this out:
Published surveys like this and like that support the same conclusion.Personally, I also like Dell's for their low decibel rating compared to other brands.
Their prices are only low if you're restricting yourselves to Intel processors. Dell's are not dirt cheap to buy in any case. It's just that for the level of hardware reliability and reduced maintenance costs, corporate buyers like them.
If you're willing to venture beyond the safe confines of 5 year track records that corporate buyers rely upon, then much better performance and price deals can be found if you're willing to do some research and testing.
I think Dell is vulnerable sticking to Intel for processors that are overpriced for the delivered level of performance. The technically inclined that support Dells at work buy Athlons for home - at some point they might notice their home Athlons great price performance ratio is augmented with tolerable reliability.
Yes, Dell operates on the slimmest of margins, assembling to order and not enduring the 1.5%/week depreciation that applies to computer inventory that the other firms keep. Maybe their Intel-only policy gets them on the priority list from Intel to compensate for no inventory.
Also, Dell minimizes the amount of high-powered technical staff they keep on hand, so it's little wonder they're bowing out of the small-sized high-knowledge overhead of the Linux market: it's not justified on a purely business level.
While Dell is making the right tactical business decision in this case, the long-term strategic consequences are that they will lose a small but vital share of the high end x86 workstation market to HP, IBM, Compaq and any other company willing to listen to the Linux desktop customer.
Case in point.
My organization is in the middle of evaluating various high-end x86 Linux desktops to replace some aging Suns. Dell was on our first round list, mainly because the corporate PC support people have them on the "approved" list and they're reliabile.
However, Dell's Linux technical support was never thicker than 2 web clicks. So it's no surprise that we're looking only at HP and IBM at the next stage.
We'll probably buy about 200 machines at around $5K apiece, but Dell won't be getting any of that. Given their size, I doubt they'll miss it.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
"high demand" does not mean a small number of people squaking loudly. It means either a large number of people willing to pay a little, or a small number of people willing to pay a lot.
Actually, in economic terms, "demand" is a graph of what people are willing to pay for a unit vs. the number of units.
So, all you have established is one datum on the demand curve, and you haven't provided us with any information about how many units you'd be willing to buy at a given price.
Now, if Dell actually tracked requests like yours and added them up, they undoubtedly have some kind of report on some manager's desk that approximates the demand (in the economic sense) for laptops loaded with Linux.
That same report also contains a "supply" which is the price at which companies are willing to sell units vs. number of units.
The intersection of these two curves is the equilibrium price, and if Dell can't sell units at that price, and make a profit, they have no business selling these boxes.
That's all there is to it. If you don't believe me, just ask the CEO of VA Linux. :)
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
...we still have to pay for that pre-loaded software that we aren't using.
Times are tough. This is just an example of zero based budgeting. There is nothing here that claims that Dell says "Linux is a bad operating system." They just made a decision that with limited resources, they would get better return on their investment by supporting other products.
Too often, when an announcement like this comes out, the slashdot community starts crying foul and looking for Microsoft conspiracies. Dell will start shipping Linux based laptops and desktops when they think they can make money doing so, or when business improves to the point that they can afford to take more chances.
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
I purposely bought the Dell that they use(d) for Linux. Then I whacked the drive put W2K on one half and RH6.2 on the other.
Recently I called them and asked them to fix the problem I was having wherein the B-Memory chip slot would occasionally "drop" the memory chip out.
They sent a guy who had just completed his A+ Cert... Hey it's just a motherboard I thought. He never hooked the fan up. He fried the chip and the "new" board.
Dell sent more parts. And the same guy. I sent him home. I requested a veteran to do the replacement. New guy comes. Installs everything. Boots the machine. This guy FREAKS out and tells me, "What you're doing is against the law. I should report you. You CANNOT install another OS on a Dell."
I gently inform him that Dell ships laptops with Red Hat.
An hour later I get a call from the repair place (IBM) who also inform me that since I have voided the warranty I am now liable for the repair costs and they'll send me a bill.
I called Dell back and they fixed everything, but still...
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This
Dell wanted an additional $200 per linux PC. The end result is people are buying win2k on them because they are cheeper, even with the little sticker on the box. They apparently never considered users with a linux CD for any PC they buy. But Dell discuraged their buyers by charging more for a free operating system installed than a $100-200 operating system they are already supporting.
Who wants Pork Chops?
Maybe there'd be more demands for Linux on Dell desktops and notebooks if I could actually select it on their website. If it was available as an option on that machine, I couldn't find it.
As it was, I was hunting around for a Dell desktop for a friend of mine. Nothing spectacular, but he didn't want to pay the Microsoft tax, and liked the look of Linux on one of my machines.
We chose the link to customize the machine, and Linux wasn't on the list. In the end, he went with a generic clone because he could get it without the liability of a copy of Windows Me. Oh, and we downloaded an RH 7.1 ISO from their website.
Wanna hire a computer geek who can configure BIND and whip out a soldering iron to hack a monitor? www.glowingplate.com
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Maybe if they actually sold to people who asked for Linux they would find that demand isn't as low as they think.
This is the height of hypocracy for Dell. They are known for custom building boxes to order and for having the lowest inventory levels in the industry (5 days). Tell me they can't slap a hard drive with Linux in as easily as they can load more RAM. Excuse me while I barf.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
I agree. Dell default installs are horrific. I also remove Linux from their servers, and reinstall.
/.-ers, if you know of any other vendors for 'good' (good used loosely when referring to x86 servers) 1,2 and 3-4U servers in that price range, let me know. IBM and Compaq are pricey, Linux Vendors, like the former VA-Linux and current Penguin Computing sell garbage that you can build yourself (better). I think I'll switch to IBM as soon as I can convince the brass.
/., I must have you read the following: Dell "hides" the truth, and won't update BIOS of relabeled Intel board!
I used to get Dell machines - ranging from Win9X to NT4 and beyond. I always do a fresh Install with windows because the apparently know nothing about Windows.
Now, for the Linux machines, they know nothing about it either. We have 31 Dell/Linux boxes (1550, 2450 and 2550), and after about 3 machines, we decided fresh RedHat would be far better. Its too bad they have the best deals on 1U servers,
AND NOW FOR THE DELL SCAM.
Brothers of
When I bought a Dell Dimension XPS Pro 200N, I got a Dell BIOS, A00. It was really a masked BIOS for an Intel VS440FX motherboard. I begged Dell at version A06 (Intel version 11) to give me the latest Intel version, 18. They claimed ignorance. After some hacking, I got the Intel BIOS to install and I was able to put more memory and a larger hard drive in. The moral. Dell withholds firmware updates to force obsolescence.
Another story. Dell Won't provide firmware updates again even on Servers!
We have OC12/ATM/POS cards from Intel. Fairly rare. They are called GigaBlade. They have two PCBs, a few Xylinx asics on them, nice silver flush mount jobs, and HP/Agilent optical framers. Cutting edge crap. Well, I wanted to put this card in a Dell box. It appears the AIC-7899 BIOS 2.X series doesn't like to behave well, and the 3.X BIOS for the Adaptec lineup fixes the problem, especially on RCC/Serverworks chipsets. Needless to say Dell has done NOTHING to help me, I have submitted about 10 requests through various channels and Adaptec has confirmed they gave Dell and all OEMS the 3.X code.
Finally, Dell has told me NO - they will not do it. The Intel GigaBlade cards are too rare to be worth their time.
I personally see why IBM charges more for their stuff - I have never been told to go screw in that manner by IBM. (MHO here is that IBM > Dell)
I think Dell is a bad company now, and I hope they go out of business.
Another story is: Dell is Scrooge McDuck, yet worse.
.... one of the charities I worked for had Michael Dell over for a thank-you dinner. Dell had given this charity some land in the middle of nowhere that is essentially worthless. He did it to get a tax write off, and the charity couldn't sell the land for much (even though it was "valued" at some arbitrary number). When confronted at the dinner, he was asked to give the $50,000 in fees that would have to be paid to close a real-estate deal, something of this nature, I forget the details.
Well, needless to say, Michael stormed out of the dinner, upset that the people he gave this "gift" to "spit in his face."
Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
Linux is still far from being mainstream capable. Installing that, for the common folk, is NOT easy.
Consider that these are the people who avoid DOS, which is the child's intro to that sort of interface. (and I'm sorry, but some bash is very necessary in Linux)
Dell has no reason to think it'll make them any money to provide it, especially when you can just download, burn and install :op
Screw 3...
If we don't want happy Dell-enhanced Windows we CERTAINLY don't want to leave a much more configurable Linux install in their hands.... and as for those users who DO like the hand-held pre-installed setup... they're not Linux users. At least not yet.
m00.
Oh man, this is no good. I know a lot of people are thinking "Fsck Dell, who cares what they do. I'll install it myself," but I was geniuinely happy to see Dell offering the choice between Linux and M$. When my friend was assembling his own PC on Dell's webpage he noticed you could save some cash by choosing Linux. He asked me about it, and I said I'd help him learn about the OS if he picked it. He did, and has been a huge Linux fan ever since. This is beautifully illustrative of the kind of cooperation between the open source community and OEMs that Linux needs to expand to the desktop world. I really hope that the other OEMs don't follow the lead of Dell, but since it is the largest of the pack I'm a little worried.
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Hey man, can I bum a sig?