Your Qwest Leads To MSN

bee writes: "Qwest.net has announced an alliance with MSN that will 'transition' Qwest's dialup and DSL customers to MSN Internet Access. If you're a Macintosh user, you'll be able to continue on Qwest until they figure out what to do with you. Zero mention, of course, is made of Linux or BSD. Here's the FAQ they're pointing their customers to."

Comments

This is a GOOD THING(tm)

[the_rev_matt]

Given the crap quality of my qwest access, I welcome MSN. I'd even welcome AOL at this point. For the last several months (long before Code Red) my DSL has been going down 70-90 times EACH DAY (sometimes a lot more) and staying down anywhere from 5 minutes to 5 hours. Qworst tells me there's nothing wrong on their end, and I know nothing has changed on my end.

Re:This is a GOOD THING(tm)

[Anonymous Coward]

We've had the same problem out our office. We have a CISCO 675 and it was using an older version of CBOS (2.1 I think). We upgraded to CBOS 2.4 and it seems to have helped. I wish you well.

MSN in perspective.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, in the ISP business, Microsoft is the challenger/underdog and Steve Case wears the borg apparatus.

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[john@iastate.edu]

As a Linux Kiddy I just thaught you aught to know I pulled down £40k AFTER Tax last year

My condolences.

Perhaps if you improved your spelling you could get a raise.

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[ThePilgrim]

As a Linux Kiddy I just thaught you aught to know I pulled down £40k AFTER Tax last year

No, because...

[Sycraft-fu]

I have their Officeworks deal. According to the FAQ that'll still be Qwest. Plus I have static IPs on my Officeworks account. Well that, by it's very nature, means it doesn't matter what OS I use. I have an external Cisco 675 router that actually does all the logon and authentication, then routes everything to my little subnet. The router just talks to my switch and the switch doesn't care what's plugged into it, so long as it speaks eithernet.

Basically I think the "Windows only" thing is probably only an issue for people with internal Intel DSL routers. Since these things actually sit in a PCI slot, they need drivers and if those drivers are only available for Windows, that's what you have to go with. However when you have an external router, it's different. It has a phone jack on one side, and eithernet on the other. It is actually what talks to the equipment and logs you in and so on, the system behind it has no involvement.

I'm additonally unwilling to leave Qwest since they seem to be the only ISP willing to work with me on the static IP thing. None of the other ISPs I talked to had a workable deal for static IPs, and some just wouldn't offer them at all.

At any rate, I'm not staying with their service just ecause it works with my stuff (I also have a Linux server on the network), but rather because they have the best deal right now. If someone else can offer me something equal or better to what Qwest has, I'd consider switching but I'm not going to move to an inferior solution.

Re:No, because...

[Snowdrake]

Hrm, that's odd. Qwest.net seems to be the *least* available option for getting a static IP around here (won't even do it for a residential- class account), while my local ISP (a Mac/NetBSD shop) says "here, give up $5/month and we'll give you a /29." I'm happy to say qwest.net will not be losing me as a customer 'cos they never had me in the first place. (And as for the actual line, well, just *try* to get selling those off past the regulators short of actually selling off the POTS stuff too.)

Re:No, because...

[haruharaharu]

I currently use Speakeasy for DSL and they offer static IPs.

Re:No, because...

[Anonymous Coward]

Alright.. makes sense. Thanks for enlightening us :)

- The AC from #30

Re:No, because...

[Anonymous Coward]

What!? Whether you use an internal or external router doesn't have jack to do with the platform you can view MSN content on... this is about content and MS client apps... not how you get your connection. I have the exact same setup by the way. I'll ditch them just because it pisses me off that quest sold me out!

Re:No, because...

[Sycraft-fu]

Couple problems:

1) They aren't on the ISP list for a Qwest line. That means that I'd have to go with a line form a different provider, probably Covad. Well this means that I'd have to buy new equipment, a new line, and the whole ball of wax. This is an extra pain since Covad has to run a second pair of copper to your place and I'm in an apartment.

2) It would end up costing me more. Speakeasy looks to want around $140+ for what Qwest wants $90 for.

3) Speakeasy is based on the east coast. Now perhaps they've since improved their network but I recally that all trafic used to travel back to the east cost using them. Below average for me since I'm on the west coast and most of what I access is in the same state as me.

Re:No, because...

[GPB]

You seem to be misinformed.

It is true that Speakeasy only uses Covad for DSL. However Covad does not necessarily have to run a second pair of copper to your place. I have DSL via Covad and they did not have to do that. Some DSL circuits (such as iDSL) need a second pair. I would imagine it varies depending on location as well.

I've used both Qwest and Speakeasy and found the prices pretty comparable. Service and network quality on the other hand are no comparison. Speakeasy is leaps and bounds better than Qwest in these regards in my opinion. Remember that monetary cost should not be the end-all-be-all qualifier for rating an ISP.

Speakeasy is NOT based on the east coast. While they do have service points on the east coast, they are headquartered in Seattle, WA. They have many service points on the east coast, the west coast, and in the central US.

As far as I know Speakeasy does not have its own backbone, but instead relies on NSPs (Internap in particular) to carry traffic to and from customers in different service points. Under this model there is absolutely no reason why all traffic would have to go to the east coast and back...especially since they started out in Seattle.

-B

Re:No, because...

[Sycraft-fu]

However Covad does not necessarily have to run a second pair of copper to your place.

In my case they would, or at least they told me when I was pricing them out.

I've used both Qwest and Speakeasy and found the prices pretty comparable.

I pay $90/month for a 640k line and 5 static IPs. Looked to me like it would cost more than that from SpeakEasy. Please remember I'd have to go with their 1.5/384 option since I want more than 128k of upstream (I do have servers).

Speakeasy is leaps and bounds better than Qwest in these regards in my opinion.

They'd be hard pressed to provide better service than what I've got from Qwest. In the some 14 months I've been with Qwest as an ISP I've had about 3-4 hours of total down time all said and done, and I leave my connection up 24/7. That's all the support I need. So long as my ISP can give me consistant access, I'm happy. Plus all the config for IPs and so on is done via the web so I don't have to deal with techs.

absolutely no reason why all traffic would have to go to the east coast

This was just something I remember people on DSL reports whining about back when. PLease remember this was over a year ago when I last looked at them.

At any rate I see no reason to change to Speakeasy because I'm happy with what Qwest gives me. I get great uptime, my full speed all the time (it doesn't even sag during peak times), low pings, static IPs, etc. To move to Sepakeasy would just to be to move from a service I know is good to one I'm not sure about, and to have to pay and experience downtime to do it.

MS has no say in it

[Sycraft-fu]

The equipment you use for the DSL line is determined by the DSLAM the phone company uses. Qwest is still going to control the physical DSL cricuts, MSN is just going to replace Qwest.net as their ISP service. That means the equipment will not change. Also you'll still have the option to have your virtual circut routed to a different ISP as required by law. You have other options besides Qwest.net now with a Qwest DSL line and you will continue to have those options with MSN. I've had a DSL line for over two years now, one year with a Tucson company called Starnet, the second with Qwest.net. Both were on a Qwest DSL circut.

Re:MS has no say in it

[Cramer]

And which law is that? The line belongs to Qwest and the ISP terminating it. I don't care how loud you scream, your traffic cannot be "routed to a different ISP" unless they are a Qwest DSL partner ISP (i.e. they have a trunk to Qwest to receive the traffic.)

In the case of Covad, the current ISP has to release the circuit before a new ISP can become the terminus. The end user has no say (at least to Covad.)

Re:MS has no say in it

[Cramer]

They cannot out-right tell the competition to go away without opening the door to antitrust suits. HellSouth has faced a number of them for this sort of thing.

Yes, the FCC mandates they have to allow access to the local loop (what's called an Unbundled Network Element - UNE.) However, they don't say how much they can charge for it -- that's up to the Public Utilities Commision. Until the last few years, the lines being used for DSL didn't fall within any existing PUC tariff. The FCC also mandates they have to allow access to wire centers, but, again, they set no rates.

At any rate, DSL ain't POTS. Rerouting circuit switched traffic for a POTS line is trivial -- the entire PSTN infrastructure is designed to handle it. Rerouting DSL is a pain in the ass and often not possible. The line goes from your house to the CO where it connects to the DSL termination gear. The line can be terminated by any DSLAM actually in that CO (with the exception of ISDL which isn't, strictly speaking, DSL -- it's a leased ISDN line.) Either your ISP owns the terminating hardware or they buy a port from someone who does have hardware there (i.e. a Partner ISP.) Barring those two, you're SOL.

Re:MS has no say in it

[Sycraft-fu]

It's because Qwest has a monoply on wires. That subjects them to certian restrictions. Additonally, they want to be a long distance and data provider. That subjects them to more restrictions. Think: When you order DSL from Covad, the copper wire laid to your house, the wire belongs to Qwest (they have right of way) and the wire is installed by Qwest technicians. So why does Qwest do this? Why don't they tell their competitors to go away? Simple, they aren't allowed to. Thay HAVE to provide the wires for their ocmpetitors. They can charge for them, but only so much. Telcos are heavily regulated by the FCC and can't just do whatever they like.

Re:MS has no say in it

[twilightzero]

Actually you're both right. For instance, in the Rochester, MN area the only choice for DSL is Qwest and the only choices for ISP are qwest.net and a single other ISP. Covad I believe has tried to move into this area but had no luck, even though I know the demand is there. Anyway just my $.02 for the record. I hate telcos...

Re:MS has no say in it

[Sycraft-fu]

Well let me put it this way, in Tucson I have about 12 other options as ISPs with Qwest, and I can change to any one of them any time I like. That is the fact of the matter, so I'm not concerned.

The future for Mac users.

[Anonymous Coward]

As Macintosh users, you are used to paying twice as much for fewer features and lower performance. Therefore, the Qwest change will transition into a $50/month 9600-baud service without e-mail for Macintosh users.

It's not necessary

[chuckw]

to use MSN if you have QWest DSL. Simply locate an ISP in your area that supports DSL and call the QWest DSL department and request that they be your ISP. It's that simple...

Any good ISPs in MPLS?

[halcyon22]

Does anyone know of a good DSL-ready ISP for the Minneapolis area? I don't want MSN...

Re:Any good ISPs in MPLS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, me and some guys from work use Twin Cities Internet and have been really pleased. The tech support is great--you'll actually talk to a human and if not, they'll call you back promptly. Their pricing is much lower than the other ISPs, especially if you prepay for a year. Check it out: http://www.tcinternet.net

Re:Any good ISPs in MPLS?

[WareW01f]

Do yourself a favor and jump ship. I just moved to south Mpls and dropped Qwest for Time-Warner. Unlike Qwest, I don't need cable to get broadband. That and my block isn't exactly 'wired'. The bandwith increase is night and day!
Yes, it is switching from one giant soul-less corp. to another, but for me it's cheaper, faster, and more reliable. That and they hooked it up faster than Qwest has ever done so. (Qwest avg 1-3 months per move! where RoadRunner was a few weeks, and most of the wait was for them to wire the neighboorhood!)

Re:Any good ISPs in MPLS?

[Elkman]

I've been using Vector Internet Services (visi.com) for several years, and I've had DSL through them for about 2 1/2 years or so. It's been very reliable, and best of all you can get a static IP for your DSL connection. The support staff here definitely knows what they're doing, too. Check them out: http://www.visi.com. And I'm not just saying this for the referral bonus.

Look on the bright side....

[skrowl]

I'd much rather be transitioned to MSN than to AOL/Compuserv/Prodigy(!)/etc. I'm not really a big fan of any of the national ISPs.... the ones that are local or operated by the local telco seem to be the best for more people. I wonder how many people will dump qwest as a result of all of this.

Oh, good, the advantages :-(

[Lumpish Scholar]

From the FAQ:

There are many reasons why you should transition your service:

• With more than 230 million visitors per month, MSN is available in 33 markets and in 17 languages. (Mom, can I jump off the cliff, too? All the cool kids are doing it.) (More importantly, *any* ISP lets you visit MSN.)
• Quality, reliability and speed. (Unlike all the other ISPs?)
• Technical support, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at no charge!
• (Ditto?)
• 
  
• Continue to enjoy POP3 e-mail service, with an option to switch to the world's largest Web-based e-mail service, MSN Hotmail®, via MSN Internet Explorer and get up to nine e-mail screen names for you and the rest of your family. (You can get Hotmail, and hundreds of screen names, from any ISP. But once you transition your MSN e-mail to Web-based, it's difficult or impossible to go back to POP3/SMTP.)
• Instant messaging from MSN Messenger Service, the fast growing instant messaging service. (Accessible from any ISP.)
• You get more space for your personal Web site from 5MB to 30MB. (Okay, one real one.)
• Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better.
  • Catch up on the latest news from MSNBC (Accessible from any ISP.)
  • Listen to your favorite music (Accessible from any ISP.)
  • Play games (Accessible from any ISP.)
  • Send instant messages (Accessible from any ISP.)
  • Create an online photo album for your family (Accessible from any ISP, whether or not you use MSN to do it..)
  • Personalize your home page with weather, sports, news or local events (Ditto.)
  • Shop from the convenience of your home (Other ISPs block Amazon.com or something?)
  • Invest your money wisely (Accessible from any ISP.)
  • Search for information (Accessible from any ISP.)
  • Send online greeting cards (Accessible from any ISP, unfortunately.)-:
  • Plan your vacation (Accessible from any ISP.)
  • Take care of your family's health (Information to help do this is accessible from any ISP, though you're gonna have to get off the darned Internet to do something with it.)
  • And, so much more

And, I'm so much less impressed.

Re:I do tech support for MSN...

[BradleyUffner]

even if you use your own name server it still has to talk to other Nave server out there to fill requests it doesn't know. My guess is that you haven't memoriex more then 10 IPs for internet sites.

MacIntosh? WackIntosh? Argh!

[resistant]

If you're a Macintosh user, you'll be able to continue on Qwest until they figure out what to do with you.

Trick you into downloading a new and "improved" Internet Explorer with a special hidden feature that periodically makes your box erupt with a "blue screen of death", until you get used to it, then offer a discount on six months of future MSN service if you buy Windows Me on a new box, with the promise that "reliability will be better" (fewer blue screens of death).

That's what they'll do with you. Mark my words.

Re:I do tech support for MSN...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now this is great news, and I read the whole freaking thread thinking that someone would post instructions like this. I use @home, and I have use FQDNs for mail and news, unlike the M$ users, who just use 'mail' and 'news.' My question is: Why isn't this in the FAQ for both MSN and @home? They just say 'unsupported,' or (MSN) make no mention at all.

Re:interesting move

[phalse phace]

"This has to be very upsetting to alot of their users in general though"

Yeah, but what will be more upsetting to them.... the fact that "only win98 and above users can acces msn dsl" or the fact that Qwest dial-up and DSL customers will be "transitioned" to MSN Internet Access?

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your name is most unfitting. You, sir, are indeed biased. Biased towards Ass-Pilfering, no doubt.

Re:seriously,

[spongman]

FYI: ActiveState has an excellent set of Perl, Python and Tcl Win32/ASP packages available for free from their site.

When we moved from Solaris/Apache to Win2K/IIS, I moved all our old Perl/CGI stuff straight over without a hitch (although I did have to redo the sendmail stuff to use CDO).

Damnit

[Anonymous Coward]

SOB I'm just getting signed up with them for their special deal with IBM employees. I wonder what this (mistake) of a merger is gonna do.. If my rates go up, I'm telling them that I'm canceling the service. Hell, I'd cancel it just because of MSN. I'm going to be working from home, and I NEED RELIABLE connections!

Linux Doesn't Get "Transitioned"

[Anonymous DWord]

Eligible Customers:
Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:

• Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and,
• Use the Windows operating system
• 
  Looks like Linux users stay with Qwest.net. You get to keep your Qwest address, too, not like the Windows users:
  
  Your Qwest.net e-mail address(es) will be inaccessible 10 days after you successfully transition your service to MSN Internet Access.

Re:Linux Doesn't Get "Transitioned"

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't count on it. They refer to 'Windows 95 or later' and 'Windows 98 and better' in the footnotes, so all Linux users have to switch as well.

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[ThePilgrim]

Actually since I got my new job I've managed to convert all but one of my workmates in my office to convert from Windose to Linux.

And last Monday she turned up with a large Unix Reference book, so there's hpe for her too

Re:seriously,

[TomV]

Just get out of the way while we introduce these exciting NEW products!

<snip!>
VisualBasic Perl Interpreter for ASP

LOL, but just for information, here's a page from MSDN (dated Aug 1999) about the perl interpreter for ASP, since you mention it.

TomV

Re:Just another quote

[Godwin O'Hitler]

And when will they stop saying "you will be transitioned" when they mean "you will make the transition".

Re:I do tech support for MSN...

[pipeb0mb]

Yep. this guy's exactly right. MSN is just another ISP...most of their suburban lines are sub-let through national chains. They're *almost* a virtual ISP.
I have a lil P200 (fine, yes, it's running Linux) that acts as a dialer and dhcp server, and all I have to do is use "MSN/username" in the dialing script. Works like a charm.
Nary a butterfly to be found.

Is there ANY possibility..

[Anonymous Coward]

of windows-using Qwest users switching to another provider out of protest?

I mean, ok, obviously Qwest is happy (or at least satisfied) with throwing out the mac users and the linux users. And clearly the mac and *n?x users are going to have to find something else.

So, my question to the windows-using qwest people: if things turn out the way it looks like they will, and the mac-using and linux-using populace lose their qwest access, will you consider leaving qwest in protest? Or will it just be, hey, they'll accept MY hardware configuration, i'm ok, it isn't my problem?

Microsoft's newest tactic is amazing. In addition to their old tactics, they now have the new and amazing trick of buying customers. That's right, can't get a sufficiently high-quality product (or one that seems solid enough) that you can establish a user base through sheer quality of product? That's alright, you can always buy thousands of users from another ISP, or bribe anyone who is willing to develop for the directx apis or the xbox with gobs of money, so that you BUY an existing user base and create some sort of "momentum" for the platform. (Munch's Odysee will be a strong argument for claiming the xbox isn't vapour. It should be; microsoft paid good money to be able to produce the Oddworld Inhabitants as proof that there is, indeed, third-party support for the xbox. Except if you paid them off, can they *really* be called a third-party?)

Customers are now a commodity, to be bought and sold. Amazing. Customers are now what Labor was 100 years ago. Except this seems somehow .. wierder. Still..

Re:Is there ANY possibility..

[berzerker3]

I mean, ok, obviously Qwest is happy (or at least satisfied) with throwing out the mac users and the linux users. And clearly the mac and *n?x users are going to have to find something else.

I don't really know if they are as happy to throw us (Linux users) out as you think. I am not saying they are sad to see us go but probably don't really give a rat's ass. I was one of the first people in AZ to order DSL (actually purchase it, not get in on one of the test neighborhoods). The whole reason I ordered it was to host my site from home. At first there was no support for linux (publically - sp?) and you could not order static IPs but that (static IPs) changed when they started up Office works (specifically setup for users running servers). Sure Linux was not publically supported but I don't know how many times I called up and the guy at the other end was a Unix/Linux user also and hepled me anyway. Sometimes they even sent me to thier 2nd level support if they couldn't help. As for the something else... yes it may cost more but Qwest is still keepig its office works customers (for now at least) so it looks like another reason for me to bring my site back (I currently do not have the office works plan).

Re:Is there ANY possibility..

[(H)elix1]

If I could get a static IP address via DSL, I would care not who wants to put their name on the front of the ISP. Alas, they did not run enough copper in my area -- thank god for cable modems.

Re:Is there ANY possibility..

[PotatoHead]

I did this about a week after the first announcement.

What really peeves me about this is not the MSN content. Their suite of services is actually decent. It is that FAQ. Nothing more than a sales pitch to someone who has to buy. Terrible.

Re:Is there ANY possibility..

[Lish]

of windows-using Qwest users switching to another provider out of protest?

I doubt it very much. Qwest charges like $30 administrative fee to switch ISPs (I had to switch ISP's about 6 months ago because my service with my old ISP was unusable for about a month and they were unable/unwilling to fix it), and your service is down for a day when they do it. I think most people will decide that MSN can't be any worse than Qwest.net and go along. Besides, there's a good chance that if you're using the default Qwest.net that you don't even know that there are other ISP's out there, let alone who they are and what they charge.

who cares?

[kootch]

Does anyone really use the "start page" of their ISP?

Okay fine, my mother probably does... and maybe my grandmother... but so what? Great, when you log on, you have to look at the first screen of MSN.com.

and some things about those Jupiter ratings about visitors to MSN.com and related properties: the most recent TheStandard had an article breaking down the top sites (by visitors) in about 20 or 30 different countries and began making the story about how it seemed that with Passport, Hotmail, MSN.com, MSNBC, etc., it seemed that Microsoft was building an online media conglomerate with more unique visitors that Yahoo, AOL, etc.

What it turned out to be was a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Every time a windows user types in a bad domain or url, they get that auto-search redirect page (counts as a hit/visitor). When they log out of hotmail, their redirected to passport.com (another visitor to passport). And they found that a large number of users have never even changed their start page from the factory installed (microsoft) one.

Smoke and mirrors.

What this press release about Qwest and MSN says is very little except "lets get more newbies to go to our page first"

Privacy concerns!

[Agent Green]

I'd be packing up and running for the hills with the MSN agreement. As if passport's privacy isn't bad enough for email. Soon M$ will own not only anything you send and receive through email, but anything you send or receive over their connections.

Someone set up us a Qwest.
All your packets are belong to us!

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Anonymous Coward]

(This is the original "NSS" AC :)

True, that. But still, stating the obvious in the way you did was... Well...

Well, it was you being you I guess. Heh.

seriously,

[Anonymous Coward]

After Gringly's last article, I see no way out of a MS dominated world. Or at least USA. I honestly feel like ditching all my UNIX experience and Java and C skills and going Visual Studio + .NET + C#

Its so sad, here in DFW I know lots of UNIX/Java/C/C++ guys out of work while VB/access bitches are still employed and making 70-100k. Seriously, not a troll. Its getting depressing. I have even seen manager ads that specify past project management experience on MS based projects.

Anybody offer any hope?

Re:seriously,

[trash eighty]

you probably don't wanna move but here in england java programmers are very much in demand (or at least were when i was looking for a job a few months ago) ... java java java, unfortunately for me the only java i know is the lovely island ;)

Re:seriously,

[Anonymous Coward]

You and all the other out of work programmers could arm themselves, storm the MS campus, slaughter all the Microsofties you can find, and carry Gates' and Balmer's heads away on a pike. Then start on the PHBs that buy stuff based on pretty glossy brouchures. How's that?

Re:seriously,

[mcleodnine]

Anybody offer any hope?

Just get out of the way while we introduce these exciting NEW products!

• Microsoft Outlook for *NIX (and developer SDK!)
• New MCMBABCE (MS Mailbox Address Book Extentions Certified Engineer) certification.
• VisualBasic Perl Interpreter for ASP

I feel so embraced and extended...

Re:seriously,

[Anonymous Coward]

If it comes to that, better to just leave the industry altogether. Why learn VB when you can flip burgers or write books or heal the sick or sell shoes or fix plumbing or lay railroad track or teach or argue cases in court or read water meters or sell crack or fuck johns or build cars or sell real estate or balance the books or paint signs or $$$MAKE MONEY FAST$$$? Most of those other jobs are probably a lot more fun than writing VB scripts and having to look customers in the face when you know your screwing them and living off their ignorance.

Re:seriously,

[botik32]

I have to agree. M$ has acquired too much weight now. Events show that it can buy court decisions.

I can see a future where usage and distribution of linux is prosecuted with 10 years in jail by some infamous law and mothers have nightmares involving their kid and a penguin...

--- There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals

Re:seriously,

[botik32]

And achieved a 3x reduction in performance? Oh I guess you should thank Microsoft for supporting ActiveState. Send them some money today!

Thanks but native perl is slow enough.

Re:seriously,

[unitron]

Embraced (by the Iron Maiden) and extended (by the rack).

Re:seriously,

[rutledjw]

Dude, I have NO idea what the story is in DFW. In Denver, the "bitches" are just that... MCSE (My Career is Still Endangered) are a dime a dozen and treated as such.

Even though the ecomony is tough, Java skills are still good (even better are Java/Unix/Oracle). Any kind of sys-admin is tough, but I'd rather be a *nix sysadmin that anything else. $$$ wise, that is.

If you're going .net, don't go to far, I smell blood. A LOT of BIG, BIG promises are being made. At some point MS has to deliver a system that works as advertised -enterprise scalability, speed, reliability.

Yeah, wouldn't want to be at the client explaining why the project was working as promised

Re:seriously,

[spongman]

Actually, we saw a drastic improvement in performance moving from the expensive Sun boxes to the cheaper Dell servers. I'm not sure if it's the boxes themselves or the fact that IIS serves static content faster than apache. The CGI part isn't performance critical so I'm not bothered if that's slower, but it seems to be just as fast in my preliminary tests.

More customers for us

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of Qwest DSL customers might move over to local service providers like Velocitus (www.velocitus.net). This has happened before when other local ISPs sold out

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[phalse phace]

Personally, I know a few people and have seen a lot of people sign up for MSN when they bought new computers. Seems like a lot of people who bought new computers took advantage of that "sign up with MSN for 3 years, and take $400 off your computer purchase today" offer. That deal helped a lot of people get a computer in their home. Now everyone's locked into a 3, 2, or 1 year contract with them. Sucks, I know.

Re:Just another quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Broadband also includes any service that uses multiple frequencies to transmit just the single service. Switched56, ISDN, T1, etc. are included because (to the best of my knowledge) they use multiple frequency bands to transmit their data channels.

Baseband uses direct voltage states to send data. This includes Ethernet (like you said), Arcnet, Token Ring, and, at a stretch of the definition, I think it includes Fiber based ethernet.

Well, that's to the best of my knowledge, anyways.

What does MAC stand for?

[Anonymous Coward]

My awful computer

Cash Appropriating Machine (backwards)

Mouse and CPU

Michgigan Agricultural College

Macintosh Are Crap

Macaroni and Cheese

Much Atrocious Cost

Re:I do tech support for MSN...

[drdink]

Or you could use a non-MSN nameserver, such as running your own. Why depend on the beast when you can do it yourself or find somebody who you trust more to do it?

Can you say "pass the buck"?

[Uttles]

Q: Is there a phone number I can call with questions regarding changes in my service?

A: For more information about MSN Internet Access services or questions about your service, please contact the Qwest® Sales and Service Office by calling 1-800-244-1111.

I don't know, I just thought that was funny, for more information on MSN, just call Qwest... seems like they're giving people the runaround before they even call...

Translation forthe Legalese-Impaired.

[Anonymous Coward]

"When you upgrade your service, special promotions are available to you."

To be read as:

"Buddy-boy, you don't even know the meaning of junk mail yet."

Re:Quote time! YAY!

[Observer]

Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better.

Anyone else put in mind of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation? (RIP Douglas)

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Anonymous Coward]

To mod or to post... I'll post.

No shit, Sherlock. Anyone with anything resembling a brain would realize Qwest the telco can't move customers of other services, only their own.

Re:I do tech support for MSN...

[sirPaul]

I was doing just that for about 8 months on both Windows and Linux. Never had a single problem with it. Damn people make things out to be so hard!

Re:interesting move

[Sauron23]

Lie. Tell them you are using a Mac. Find another ISP.

qwest sob story

[Anonymous Coward]

i tried to switch isps from qwest.net to a local company and they told me it wasn't a good idea because qwest would fumble the switch i would be without internet for up to 2 months. they didn't say anything explicitly but i think the implication was that qwest fumbles on purpose or is at least incompetent. not only that the software qwest gives its competitors didn't even list me as a phone company user so he couldn't switch me even if he wanted to. he said my best bet was to drop my dsl and sign up again. of course that would take another month to get my internet back. and i just spent two months and 20 hours on the phone trying to get it the first time. bottom line is qwest sucks and i'm not sure how easy it is to opt out of the msn thing also the faq says all qwest.net customers are being switched to msn on november 4.

Re:qwest sob story

[Doomdark]

Well, I'm not a huge Qwest fan, but I had absolutely no problem signing up for Qwest DSL but using another ISP (I know, YMMV). Perhaps it is/was easier when you don't have to switch from Qwest.net, but it seemed to me that Qwest isn't all that hostile. Makes sense to me, because their DSL profits are most likely higher than their ISP profits (if they do any profit... it's much more customer service than physical DSL, and much smaller margins).

Anyways; I'd say that even with trouble, go with an external ISP (instead of Qwest.net). It is worth it.

But sex and drugs are good...

[fishbert]

Why lump good things like drugs and sex with violence and dominating governments... Seems strange to me...

Swallowed whole

[Sauron23]

Having watched Earthlink do the same thing with Sprint, and about 6 local ISP's I can say that the customer support will probably be worst, but at least the browsing will be slower. Poor bastards. You don't have to use them. Support a local ISP, sure its Qwest's DSLAM at the CO but you don't have to use them as your ISP. bah I'm preaching to the ...

Ignorance & blindness: all certain /. posters need

[bee]

Listen bonehead, I wrote the article, and I have four words for you: Read The Fucking Article.

Notice how the Very First Word is 'Qwest.net'. Therefore, anyone with a couple of neurons to rub together would realize what this applies to. Then notice how the FAQ uses Qwest and Qwest.net pretty much interchangeably. Hmm, gee, I'm not confusing the two any more than Qwest does themselves.

The rest of this article is ranting based on this false premise. And it even got moderated up to 5, how sad. Good moderator points wasted on someone who posts goatse.cx links in their articles. Check that article out, apparently it got all the way to +4 before being slapped down like the troll it is.

Hopefully get rid of that idiotic Qwest name.

[Anonymous Coward]

At best, "Qwest" sounds like one of those corporate projects that takes weeks and millions to come up with (like "Allegys" and "Unisys"). At worst, it sounds like a sugary 1970s cereal with a spaceman mascot. If it merges into someone else, maybe we can get rid of this name.

Next, Verizon.....

So many idiots...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a dumb gripe: Why do so many places think "MAC" is an acronym?

Macintosh Apple Computer?

"MacIntosh" is equally annoying. Shouldn't an office Qwest release have to go by some copy people who catch these things?

Was considering the option anyway... but...

[WyldOne]

Did you notice if your static ip + officeworks was any faster using the same speed line? The techs I've been able to talk too either don't know or can't say.

Re:Was considering the option anyway... but...

[Sycraft-fu]

Define faster. If you mean more bandwidth then no, of course not. If you mean lower pings, well perhaps slightly since the router is just routing rather than doing NAT calculations.

Alternatives in Denver?

[Erbo]

If Qwest wants to "transition" me and my Linux box to MSN, I'm gonna "transition" straight to another ISP.

Any recommendations for a good, independent dialup ISP in the Denver metro area that's reliable, doesn't limit your hours, is about $20/month, and doesn't give a rat's ass what OS you choose to run? Basically, I'd like to find the Denver equivalent of Santa Barbara's Silicon Beach.

(I wish we could do DSL or cable modem, but we're too far from the switch for DSL, and, as for cable modems, our apartment complex uses this company called Optel (not AT&T like most of the metro area), and they don't offer that service. Sprint's Broadband Direct service would also be cool, I just don't think we'd get permission from the apartment managers to put up the antenna.)

Eric

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Bowie J. Poag]

Heh.. Look. There are people who read this page who are willing to argue that 1+1 doesn't equal 2. Sometimes you have to state the obvious to diffuse any potential whining down the road.

Linux users are NOT being left out...

[bluephone]

As stated in the FAQ, the criteria for being "eligible" to be moved to MSN:

Currently, the plan is to transition those customers who:

* Have Qwest.net Internet Access using an analog dial-up line, Qwest DSL 256, Qwest DSL Select, or Qwest DSL Deluxe connection and,
* Use the Windows operating system.

MAC Customers: MSN is working on a MAC solution for your Internet access needs. Until that time, there will not be any changes to your Qwest.net Internet Access service.

Now, if this truly was ignorant of anyone not using a Mac or Windows box, then the second * would not have been posted, they'd have just told Mac users to hold on while Microsoft figures out how to best punish - er, service them. But Quest explicitly states this is for Windows users only. From what I see here, it's obvious that they recognize not everyone is either a Mac or Windows user.

hmmmm

[jayfoo2]

"Zero mention, of course, is made of Linux or BSD."

Actually I beg to differ, check this out from the small print at the bottom....

"MSN Broadband Internet Access is available only to users of the Windows® 98 or later operating systems"

Somehow I don't think they are considering 2.4 a 'later operating system'

Hmm, no mention of ISDN

[Brad Wilson]

I live in sticks in Qwest country, so rather than pathetic analog dialup, we have slightly less pathetic ISDN dialup (40k feet -- yes, 7 1/2 miles -- to our Central Office) with Qwest.net. Funny, no mention of our disposition... I guess they must've forgotten they provide ISDN dialup for homes!

Re:Polarisation?

[gnarf37]

As far as I could tell from the article, it didn't seem to affect your current "IP service" just your "homepage package" sort of thing. It doesn't seem to be affecting any part of your IP service, therefore if you never used your qwest.net e-mail, etc.. services, this MSN bull won't really affect you at all.

Re:I can only dream...

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF? What, did ShoeBoy hax0r somebody's account? Who modded this up?

Re:Quote time! YAY!

[shokk]

Wait until you start using MSN. You'll be so happy, you'll be leaping from windows. Or is that leaping from Windows? Hmmm...

Re:Just another quote

[Zarhan]

Actually, what I learned in broadband networks course (about ATM and SDH, mostly), the definition of broadband was "anything above T1/E1". In effect, anything above 1,54M or 2M, because that's the highest speed available to the end user on "traditional" (PDH) systems. There was also something about N-ISDN and B-ISDN, but "narrowband" IS a legitimate term and means T1/E1 and everything below. Baseband is a term used in signal processing, and it's opposite is a modulated signal, ie. baseband is the information signal itself, and it's trasmitted, but with a modulation it's raised to a carrier. A standard composite video signal is baseband. An RF signal that you get to your TV is exactly the same signal, but its modulated to TV frequencies (VHF/UHF).

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[Strangely Unbiased]

You sir, are a complete idiot. I will not tolerate idiots, especially when they talk. Linux is not Linsux, and your completely brainless rant about it being a 'hobby' OS should be pointed to the thousands of Linux web server(example) sysadmins who enjoy the reliability and stability of this 'beta' thing. Now, I'm mainly a Windows user, but I have learned to appreciate both OSes, and accept their shortcomings. You give computing (and Windows by the way) a bad name, simply by existing.
Other people: Please ignore this post and its AC parent.Thank you.

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[Adversive]

I work for a mid-sized ISP that has been affected greatly by recent ISP transitions. Micron.net/HostPro.net recently sold all its dial-up customers to Earthlink and several thousand of them have switched to my ISP. Most of them said they did not want to switch to such a bloated problematic ISP like Earthlink.

(Honestly, I think many of them decided to switch after waiting on hold for over an hour for technical support -- our average hold time is under three minutes...)

While many of our customers are still coming from AOL and are not ready for a normal internet connection, it actually seems that computer users are beginning to understand why large ISPs are getting such a bad name. Today, the average dial-up customer is much more likely to switch ISPs because of poor service than in the past.

Hopefully this trend continues. If I wanted to be an MSN customer I would have signed up with them...

(Despite my e-mail address, Qwest is no longer my ISP)

Re:Quote time! YAY!

[Zaknafein500]

Anyone else put in mind of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation? (RIP Douglas)

My favorite is page 719 of The Ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide. (can also be found in Mostly Harmless, but don't know which page) The Great Telephone and Ventilation Riots of SrDr 3454. Douglas' narration of the Breathe-O-Smart system is hysterical, and describes Microsoft to a T.

Re:Just another quote

[Q-Hack!]

The opposite of broadband is baseband

You are half right... baseband is an unmodulated signal as opposed to IF (Intermediate Frequency) or the final Transmission Frequency. Sometimes the IF stage is left out like in Home Stereo FM radio.

Narrowband and Broadband (or wideband) deal with the amount of baseband data that is being modulated to the carrier frequency. Narrowband is a single channel of data and broadband is multiple channels of data, and thus oposites.

Old News...

[nexex]

We already heard this here.

List of alternative Qwest DSL ISPs

[Anonymous Coward]

For all you other Qwest DSL users out there, here is the list of alternative ISPs you can use with your Qwest DSL line. Looks like we have till November 4th to switch.

As a Qwest DSL subscriber...

[TheOutlawTorn]

I am not worried about it. Why? Two reasons:

1. I have an external Cisco DSL router, which my Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris boxes are happily connecting through.

2. I have the ability to choose what ISP I want. I DO NOT have to use MSN. There are several local outfits that would be happy to provide ISP services through my Qwest DSL line.

BTW, it's not like Qwest service was good to begin with. Oh, I have to switch my email address? Oh the horror! Whatever shall I do? Well, considering I have a yahoo account, not much.

Re:interesting move

[phiwum]

"I can't imagine Microsoft forcing the the established DSL customers to buy new equipment." Oh, no, me either!!! How unusual that would be.

Re:I can only dream...

[AB_7A]

Even though your post was off topic, I felt required to reply. You'll have to forgive me though I don't know HTML. The reason is the average person doesn't know about DMCA and things of that nature is because people are sheep and their Shepard hasn't told them what to think about it, so they have no opinion. Until our Government, the media and corporate America give them an opinion they will stare blankly when you mention anything out side their scope of reality. They feed us social narcotics to distract us from what is really going on in the world. Television, Sports, Celebrity's and God are all things used to distract us from the truth. They take us away from our horrible lives and comfort us into submission. Making it easier to control us and throw us around. As Americans we have become comfortable with not thinking for ourselves, after all isn't is easier to have someone do something for you than to do it yourself? This country is lazy, overweight and ignorant, is our fault? Is the Shepard's fault? No, we share the blame, they do it to us and we allow it to happen. As for the Qwest/MSN deal, I doubt anyone will care. The average person is too numb to the reality of being bought and sold like cattle. All they want is to surf where they are told to surf. And MSN now has that many more sheep to lead. Will it ever change? I doubt it. It would have to take something very drastic for the bulk of the flock to stray from it's master. But that's just how I see it.

This is only the ISP part

[Publicus]

This doesn't mean that MSN will be running the line, Qwest still does that. Maybe this is just in Minnesota, but with Qwest DSL we have a choice (and a pretty wide range) of ISP, and a lot of local ISP's compete pretty well for price and services. I had DSL in my old apartment and we used a local ISP because their prices for static IPs were a lot less. I would imagine that this factor will leave a lot of the Linux/BSD users with fewer worries, as MSN will probably not be offering static IPs anyway.

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[Strangely Unbiased]

That's not my name. That's my nickname (duh), and it's a joke (course I'm biased). And you're neither funny nor smart, nor brave enough to create an account with your real name. And you probably don't have many friends (or dates) either.Bye sucker.

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[fifthchild]

I use Passport becuase that's what Hotmail became- and all I use it for is email. I started using Hotmail before MSN bought it, but now I use Passport purely because of Hotmail... I didn't really choose and I don't mind either. Not that I gave any real details to them.

the angle

[GroovBird]

What I see in this article is that Qwest is jumping out of the 'consumer' business, like more and more ISPs are doing.

My ISP provides me ADSL access. They stopped marketing their end-user products and focused their business on corporate and enterprise solutions, basically because it's become too expensive to keep supporting the many home users that keep leeching and trading movies and the likes.

I can see either one of two reasons here:
- What we pay for internet these days is really below the real cost for our ISPs, while punching each other in the face with lower prices to get the most customers.
- What the Big Backbone Boys (carriers, telcos, ...) are charging is way more than they should.

Can anyone else see a trend here?

Every time something like this happens

[HerrGlock]

I am more and more glad I turned to Speakeasy Network. They are Linux/BSD/Mac friendly and they have done me right from day one.

DanH

Not that I really care, but...

[Enigma23]

There is something I have to ask of those people who use MSN.

Why do you use it? I'll admit that I use it occasionally, but only in order to keep in contact with friends via MSN messenger (i'm trying to persuade them to get ICQ instead). Given the, shall we say, twtchiness of MSN in the last few weeks, I'll be surprised if the number of people using MSN hasn't plummeted due to the spectacular lack of customer service that they have exhibited in recent, and less recent, times.

Given the inherent problems that have been flagged up with regards to Microsoft and MSN in the last few weeks, months, years and decades, I personally have very little Faith in their much-touted security features (or should that be bugs?) in MSN.

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[plague3106]

Unlike the shitty OS, the shitty MSN does have viable competition. People could (and probably) would move to AOL, or perhaps another ISP all together. I knew someone that had MSN; they only had it for a few days, and went back to AOL.

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[Lumpish Scholar]

Why do you use it?

My mom uses MSN for dial-up because her Dell computer came with 12 months of MSN. (Now Dells come with 6 months of MSN.) As another poster said, click "Connect to the Internet," and you get the MSN home page.

Funny thing is, you can still use MSN (the Web site) with any dial-up ISP. We'll see how Mom feels about transitioning (say, to a $15/month account, instead of paying $22/month for MSN) when the year's up.

P.S.: Yes, I know, it's not free, it's included in the price of the computer.

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[celerity02]

Think of it this way. You're a new computer user. You want to check out this thing called 'the Internet'. So you boot up your brand new out of the box computer and see an icon for MSN that gets you "connected to the Internet".

What do you think you'd use? It'd be easiest to just click on that link and follow the instructions. Other ISPs? What's an ISP?

Same reason AOL's going for the link on the desktop sales slant. Newbies will eat it up. They don't care if the connection is crap. It's what they're comfortable with doing. And that's probably all that's really going to matter to them.

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[J'raxis]

Right, the complete shittiness of MSN is going to drive customers away... just like all those millions of people leaving Windows for its shittiness, right?

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[linzeal]

Mindspring used to be such an option with its stellar customer service and tech support;however, earthlink is run by a bunch of grumpy crazed unfun workaholic scientologists instead of a bunch of joyous drunk d&d playing pagans like mindspring. Is there any isp over 100,000 people with great customer service anymore?

Re:Not that I really care, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Best Buy was (still is, I think) doing a big promotion whereby you sign up with MSN and get a $400 voucher for anything in the store.

Frustration with my current ISP, a small, local operation that consistently overcharged me, knocked me offline, bounced my mail, and otherwise screwed me over, combined with the draw of a brand new TV and DVD player, drove me into the arms of MSN.

Is it perfect? Certainly not. But I've had a lot fewer problems and frustrations than I did with my local ISP -- which, incidentally, has now been bought out three or four times. So much for supporting the little guy. If the little guy can't provide service up to par with the (supposedly) notorious MSN, then quite honestly, fuck them.

Polarisation?

[Dr_Cheeks]

So does anyone else get the feeling that this is going to slowly lock out all non-Windows users (yeah, we'll update you Mac users, um, later. Linux? What's that?)? And if it does so, then would this be another case for the DoJ?

Re:Polarisation?

[Dr_Cheeks]

Wait; I get it now! What they really need is some sort of system that they can roll out to all the users to get them using their services. Something that'll run on every major platform. But what? Yes, Java!

Oh, wait a sec.....

New MSQwest Slogan....

[Unknown Bovine Group]

New MSQwest Slogan....

Bend over and ride the light.

Re:New MSQwest Slogan....

[TheWarlocke]

Somebody mod this up as Funny!

Re:New MSQwest Slogan....

[Unknown Bovine Group]

Why thank you.

Your .sig misses the best part of the quote "...We don't believe this to be a coincidence." ;)

Re:New MSQwest Slogan....

[unitron]

More like "Bend over and ride the LightSaber". Ouch!

MSN under *NIX

[IanA]

Zero mention, of course, is made of Linux or BSD

for dialup, you simply change your loginname to MSN\loginnanme and you can use dialup.

Same Service... Same "support"(or lack there of)

[ctl4u]

Hi, I'm currently a Qwest employee and DSL customer I agree that the Transition FAQ looks fairly scary for *nix users but that's just the public image. I have talked to nearly every level of DSL management in my building and Nothing is changing for Linux users. You can still use the same equip and get the same access while keeping the same address (unlike windows users who go to @msn addys). True you do have to use a Cisco 675 but you have to anyway because of the lacking drivers for the Intel modems in Linux... Everything remains the same... Just Relax!
~Cory

Re:Quote time! YAY!

[Dr. Merkw�rdigliebe]

Well, let's hope MSN will be first up against the wall when the revolution finally comes ;)

NOT one real one.

[Anonymous Coward]

"You get more space for your personal Web site from 5MB to 30MB. (Okay, one real one.)"

Free "personal" web space well in excess of 30 mb is available from many places already, regardless of how you connect.

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Eggshen]

Ummm... Just to point out that people will be migrated if the are "eligible" regardless of whether they wish to be or not.

Direct Quote:
"Note: Beginning November 4, 2001, eligible Qwest.net Internet Access Customers who have not transitioned their account will
automatically be transitioned to MSN Internet Access."

Here are the gritty details:

http://www.qwest.net/nav4/msn/faq.html#qwestnet_ se rvice

Of course there are some exceptions but I would think that they are signing over the majority of thier customers over to M$N.

So no I don't think its FUD.

Re:interesting move

[Adversive]

I think that the FAQ is intended to show what MSN will support. Qwest DSL uses the Intel 2100/2200/3200 DSL internal 'modems' and the Cisco 675/678 almost exclusively.

For customers with the Intel modems, you never could connect with non-MS operating systems anyway (correct me if I'm wrong, however). With the Cisco modems you could connect fine with just about any operating system. I had no problems getting Suse to run DHCP with my Cisco 675.

I can't imagine Microsoft forcing the the established DSL customers to buy new equipment. For existing Qwest.net customers with Cisco routers, I'd imagine you would still be able to connect as you were before.

Alternate sites for Qwest users

[WyldOne]

After much searching I found this: ISP's connected to Qwest.com

Even ISP Reports (A DSL rating site) did not have a easy way to find all the ISP's connected to Qwest easily. So still have to visit them and do some more research *sigh*

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[bigbadwlf]

"for every 100 windows/solaris users i know, there is one linux user"

Yes of course. That explains why we're all worried about Sun's monopoly.

Service Agreements with ISPs

[hillct]

Apatently Qwest.net users got screwed when it came to service agreements. Make damn sure you know what you're getting into in this area? How is it that MSN is able to provide less services ie: questionable web publishing, unreliable email service in a non-dedicated enviroment and so fourth. Don't these users have a service agreement they can fall back on to at least compel MSN to provide EXACTLY the same service they were recieving from Qwest until the termination of that contract term...? (not being a Qwest customer I don't know)

From a Qwest customer...

[KC7GR]

Being a Qwest.net customer, I'm in a really good position to comment on this (and you'd better believe I did my research when I heard about it!)

First off: The change only affects those customers who:

(1) Use analog dialup.
(2) Use residential DSL.
(3) Use any sort of Qwest.net web-based E-mail interface.

The change DOES NOT AFFECT YOU IF:

(1) You are a subscriber to Qwest.net's OfficeWorks or OfficeWorksLAN package.

(2) You are a subscriber to Qwest.net's DSLPro, DSL256, DSLDeluxe, or BrowseNow services.

In my case, I'm fully self-hosted. I run my own DNS, web, mail, FTP and (soon) caching NNTP servers. My Qwest DSL connection and static IP block is nothing more than a pipeline to the 'net at large. I have double-checked with the Qwest business office: The change will not affect me, or anyone else who is also self-hosted on a Qwest DSL line.

So, in summary: The only folks who have anything to worry about (and with MSN, there's PLENTY to worry about!) are the pure dialup and cheap DSL subscribers.

My deepest sympathies go out to them, and I would like to offer a brief list of alternative ISPs in the Puget Sound region that would probably be a heck of a lot better choice than anything the Redmond Empire can turn out.

http://www.blarg.net

http://www.drizzle.com (Heard good things, no direct experience with them).

http://www.kendra.com (Excellent reviews from some of my fellow Boeing employees).

For a full list of Puget Sound area ISP's, try this link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/technology/h tml98/isp_chart_030198.html

Good luck, and God help us all...

Whats up BORGNET? Don't they use DHCP?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does MSN use some wierd protocoll that only MS PC's have software for? I mean, when I signed up for RoadRunner, they of course were confused with a Linux box, but all I asked them to do was tell me the dns entries, default router, mail and newsgroup info was. No problems. Fatpipe and happy

.NET

[tstock]

It only makes sense. MSN will probably play a large part in promoting .NET to the public and Qwest owns alot of dark fiber which can't hurt either.

Microsoft needs strong platforms from which to be a "leader" in the Internet. browser, media players, .NET and MSN should all compliment each other quite nicely...

Better you than me

[mcleodnine]

Too bad, so sad. So I trust that the qwest subscribers will have to click-through the new privacy agreements with MSN. Or will they just be bound to it by the transition gods? Mmmmm. Yummy Passport. Tastes great, but leaves a greasy stain on your soul.

So will the DoJ wait until after MS owns the entire North American ISP business or just the top 10%?

Re:Better you than me

[Anonymous Coward]

MS can't own the entire NA ISP business! AOL will.

I can only dream...

[Racher]

I can only dream of the days when regular people wake up out of their dreams that what they are being told is good for them, is actually good for them. They public doesn't care about Dimitry, the DMCA, hard drive copy protection, getting switched to MSN, having their government lie to them constantly, being lead by elected followers with records of drug abuse, sexual affairs. Why doesn't the world see what it is doing? Do people really go around believing there is a god? They don't care if IE in integrated with windows, it could be linked into their brain, if the majority tells them it's good for them they would do it.

Well what happens when the majority is wrong?

I can't believe the things people do on a day to day basis, I can't believe that as a race of supposedly sentient beings, we live this way. The drugs, the sex, the violence, the dominating government, the dominating companies. We allow this to happen, we live out our little lives only caring about what is good for us in the short term. Well what is supposedly good for you is not good for you! Most slashdotter's seem to realize this fact because they are sometimes doing something about this messed up system we live in. Most everyone in this world is 'The Man's bitch... They take whatever he want's to shove down their throat. Why can't our world be focused on art and science and the developement of mankind. Why does it have to be the circus that it is.

Personally I am working to help out the world as much as I can in my present state. I am putting myself through college working in a job that produces scientific information that can help our understanding of the universe. My income can is refered to as sub-poverty by the government. But I personally am living quite richly because of my wise choices. I am surrounded by several other students who are being put through college by their parents, who have no job and constantly bitch about their life.

I simply wish I lived in a world full of thinkers and leaders, not a world full of ignorant followers.

If you know of a place, please let me know. Please...

Re:I can only dream...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I for one like the drugs and the sex -- and violence can be fun at times.

As far as people with rich parents and no job who are bitching about life... uh, re-read your post.

Re:I can only dream...

[analog_line]

I simply wish I lived in a world full of thinkers and leaders, not a world full of ignorant followers.

A wonderful, idealistic vision. Only problem is that it's purely idealistic. Ever hear the phrase "too many chiefs, not enough indians"? Everyone cannot lead. By definition, if you want to be a lead, you've got to have followers. If no one had followers, nothing would get done. Anyone with a great idea wouldn't have anyone to help implement it with. No decisions would ever get made because everyone would be second guessing everyone else.

A call for less ignorant followers I can agree with, but a world with just leaders is a world where nothing of consequence gets done. Followers are more important than leaders. The followers need to choose their leaders with more care.

Shout out to ma techies

[Hyperbolix]

In all the anger and frustration over mergers of this sort, one must not forget the increased workload that will befell the helpdesk technicians at these companies. An ISP I worked at got bought out by another local ISP and we had one hell of a time transitioning our puny 1500 person client base. While people may be angry, remember, technicians are humans too and this is gonna suck for them (the lucky ones who keep there jobs).
- Hyperbolix

Re:Just another quote

[Spock the Vulcan]

Yes. To be more accurate, baseband is called so because the "base" signal is transmitted, that is, the signal that's generated is the one that is transmitted. In broadband, there are multiple signals being transmitted - however, each one has been transformed, so as to occupy a unique "band".

The wide road leads to hell.

[Anonymous Coward]

Give it two years and all Broadband access will require Windows 98 or later.

Linux and MSN

[ChiaBen]

While I was travelling the last couple years I needed(wanted?) internet access most everywhere I went. The only real choice(AOL is not a choice) was to go with MSN. I ran Redhat 5.1 on a Toshiba laptop, and travelled all 42 states, Canada, Mexico, and visited all the others online. I worked fine after a little setup help from a knowledgeable fellow at MSN.

This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Bowie J. Poag]

I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but this "article" is pure FUD. It incinuates that all of Qwest's DSL customers (of which I am one..) are going to be forced to switch to MSN, which is total BS. To quote from the FAQ itself:


"Under the agreement, MSN will become the preferred Internet Service Provider (ISP) for some Qwest.net Consumer Internet Access customers."

So what if MSN becomes the "preferred ISP"? And beyond that, its only going to apply to some customers, not all.

Qwest is moving its "Qwest.net" customers to MSN. Thats right, there is a difference between Qwest and Qwest.net -- Qwest.net is Qwest's unprofitable, lousy internet provider service. Qwest provides you with a DSL circuit. Who you choose to have as your ISP is totally up to you. You can rely upon Qwest for that additionally, and become a subscriber to "Qwest.net"..You don't have to.

Beyond all this, if you have another ISP that youve chosen to do business with, such as a local ISP in your home town, Qwest does not have the legal authority to render the contract between you and your ISP null and void. Its only "Qwest.net" subscribers that have to "worry" about anything. I dont subscribe to "Qwest.net", so I don't have to worry about a thing. I use DakotaCom here in Tucson as my ISP, therefore it doesn't affect me.

This entire post should be modded down to -1 Troll.

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Anonymous Coward]

"Qwest does not have the legal authority to render the contract between you and your ISP null and void. Its only "Qwest.net" subscribers that have to "worry" about anything. "

True but couldnt quest deny access for the other isp's and force people who use their dsl subscriber lines to use their isp access

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Lumpish Scholar]

So what if MSN becomes the "preferred ISP"?

My mom uses dialup MSN. They've intercepted the "launch a connection to the Internet" action, so the only way you can get online is to run the MSN home page thingie (the AOL-ish screen that's a seriously DHTML'ed IE). Want a PPP connection to run just your favorite TCP/IP apps over, not your ISP's favorite app? Tough luck.

And beyond that, its only going to apply to some customers, not all.

"If you use a PC with the Windows operating system (rather than a Macintosh), between August 7, 2001 and August 24, 2001 an e-mail message will be sent to eligible customers [anyone who runs Windows and uses dial-up or DSL from Qwest.net]. The e-mail will provide a link to the transition Web site. Once you transition to MSN, your Qwest.net account services will be inaccessible 10 days after you successfully transition your service to MSN Internet Access.

Beginning November 4, 2001, eligible Qwest.net Internet Access customers who have not transitioned their account will automatically be transitioned to MSN."

"Some customers" means "any customers who don't immediately lie and say they own Macs"?-)

Beyond all this, if you have another ISP that youve chosen to do business with, such as a local ISP in your home town, Qwest does not have the legal authority to render the contract between you and your ISP null and void. Its only "Qwest.net" subscribers that have to "worry" about anything.

So all you have to do is change ISPs, change your e-mail address, and hope (dial-up) you can still get a local POP or (DSL) go through the whole DSL Installation Hell routine ("No, it's not our fault, it's their fault") again? How reassuring.

They came first for the Qwest.net customers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Qwest.net customer. Then they came for the DakotaCom customers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a DakotaCom customer.... Then they came for me, and by that time, was no one left to speak up. (Sorry, trivialization of a Holocaust-related quote ... but no intentional triggering of Godwin's Law.-)

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[Anonymous Coward]

My mom uses dialup MSN. They've intercepted the "launch a connection to the Internet" action, so the only way you can get online is to run the MSN home page thingie (the AOL-ish screen that's a seriously DHTML'ed IE). Want a PPP connection to run just your favorite TCP/IP apps over, not your ISP's favorite app? Tough luck. Yes, it is possible, and MSN TS will tell you that aswell, read this thread. You do NOT have to use the MSN software.

Re:This is anti-Microsoft FUD..

[GPB]

They would if they could. The only reason Qwest lets you use other ISPs besides Qwest.net now is because they have been legally forced to.

-B

Was there ever any doubt...

[bob_digital]

that a company with this background would eventually pull a stunt like this?

Re:Was there ever any doubt...

[unitron]

Was that link supposed to tell us anything other than that their stock price is about half of what it was a year ago? That's probably true for a bunch of electronics related companies and they aren't all rushing to get bought out by MS.

interesting move

[Anonymous Coward]

The fine print of the FAQ states that only win98
and above users can acces msn dsl. I wonder how
this will affect the relatively large userbase that
Qwest has? This has to be very upsetting to alot of
their users in general though.

Just another quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Qwest® and MSN are working hard to deliver great narrowband and Qwest DSL(TM) services to all customers.

When will they stop twisting the jargon!? "Narrowband"? The opposite of broadband is baseband, as in 10Base(band)T. Broadband does not mean "Big fat and fast line to the internet", but rather a single data cable that carries more than one type of a signal. Your CATV line is broadband because it can carry network data AND your usual TV channels. DSL (at least ADSL) is broadband because it can carry your phone (voice and low-frequency sound-based data) signals and your network connection. Ethernet is NOT broadband, even though it's faster than DSL, because it can only carry data signals... unless you happen to be one of those that happens to be using a very unusual kind of ethernet that was hardly implemented... I think it was called 10Broad36, and ran over 75 Ohm Coaxial. (aka, coaxial TV cable.)

Re:Just another quote

[Mr. McGibby]

When will they stop twisting the jargon!?

They're not so get used to it. Words mean what people think they mean, not what some techie has decided they mean. If the message is understood, then who cares? Nobody but you and a few other people with nothing better to do.

People are always going to have the wrong meaning for "hacker" in their brain. Well, if 90% of the speakers have one meaning in their head, who are you to challenge it?

Re:Just another quote

[unitron]

Baseband means whatever bandwidth it uses isn't heterodyned up to one of the many "channels" (of whatever bandwidth) stacked one on top of the other in the broadband medium the way that radio and TV signals share the airwaves or cable. In other words if the baseband signal varies between (plucks figure out of thin air or other location) 0 Hz to 3kHz, then it gets received as a 0 to 3kHz signal instead of a 50kHz to 53kHz signal that has to be shifted back down by a local oscillator or detector.

Re:Just another quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Nerd

Qwest.net

[Anonymous Coward]

This only applies to those using Qwest's network - *not* to everyone using Qwest dsl circuits.

So, for those who get "transitioned", they can instead just bail entirely and find a local ISP to
get their actual internet layer functional, using Qwest merely for the line.

I'm sure you could easily get out of whatever obligation your Qwest.net contract holds you to,
as breech of contract -- it was not under the terms that you should be switched to a different
provider for which your system is not supported
( ie - MSN for us *nix users ).

Regardless -- I think the whole fuckin' thing stinks rotten, and that both Qwest *and* Microsoft ( mostly Microsoft ) should die.

We're slowly losing more and more freedom.

Quote time! YAY!

[Vice_hkpnx]

Here's my personal fave:

"Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better."

Maybe that's why i'm depressed all the time. No MSN.

Re:Quote time! YAY!

[Enigma23]

I've noticed how sucky this will be for Qwest users. Such gems include:

1) Not being able to keep your own Qwest email address, but having to "transition" (great word that) your address over to MSN Hotmail. Oh, joy!

2) Only being able to transfer over your primary Qwest email address, but "secondary accounts will not be transitioned." But hey, you'll get to "create up to nine e-mail screen names for you and the rest your family" instead of having them "transitioned"...

3) To quote the FAQ "Qwest.net account services will be inaccessible 10 days after you successfully transition your service to MSN Internet Access." That's nice of them isn't it?

4) As icing on the cake, "Since Web Publishing will no longer be available after the 10 day grace period, you should make sure you have a local copy of your Web page(s)." I'm loving MSN more and more as I read through this...

Are We All Having Fun Yet? No, I didn't think so.

QWEST

[FunkSoulBrother]

QWEST = Quietly We Enrage Slashdot Trolls

Re:QWEST

[Skapare]

You should:

s/Quietly/Quickly/

so you will have:

QWEST = Quickly We Enrage Slashdot Trolls

They're trying to capture the 'net from both ends

[sjhwilkes]

On the one hand they encourage sites to use non-standard tags VB script etc. so pages don't work properly on non-MS platforms. On the other they're buying the access, again forcing people to migrate to MS products if they want service. Mac, and Linux and other users are stuffed...

Re:Ignore your post?

[Strangely Unbiased]

Hehe...Good point. But it was meant to be read only by the guy who posted the parent.

Ever hear of AOL?

[Anonymous Coward]

"So will the DoJ wait until after MS owns the entire North American ISP business or just the top 10%?"

This will be a very long wait. Ever hear of America Online, by any chance?

Qwest and Microsoft

[Faed]

I worked for USWest during the time Qwest took them over. Before the "merger", I believe Microsoft owned a 5% stake in Qwest. As a result, most of Qwest products were MS based. It also meant the painful transition from Netscape browsers/calendars to Outlook for all the US West folks. Luckily I left before that happened. But when it came to relaunch the website, our Netscape/Solaris infrastucture was much more stable - so all the Qwest content went there. Uptime has dramatically improved. ;)

To get to the point though, Qwest does not care about web services, all they care about is using their bandwidth. The ASP service, Qwest.net (formerly USWest.net) are only tools to sell more fiber. Since Microsoft is a big invester, fine, they'll use Microsoft products. As long as it gets traffic moving across their lines, they don't care.

Someone mentioned earlier that Qwest and Qwest.net are different companies. This is true, but only for regulation purposes. Joe Nacchio is still in charge of both.

Windows = Solaris?

[Anonymous Coward]

Including Windows and Solaris one on side of a numeric comparison as you did is quite odd.

It is like saying "For every Ford and Avanti driver out there, there is one Saab owner". Makes no sense having it there.

I do tech support for MSN...

[Anonymous Coward]

... and using linux, or any other PPP capable device on it is not hard... You do not need to use the software at all, the username just needs to be prefixed with MSN/ and you need the, easily accessable DNS server IP's which tech support would give you in a heartbeat.

Re:I do tech support for MSN...

[Internutt]

It took me over a month to figure out all the little details but I got it right and now it's working like a charm, my MSN connection.
MS doesn't want to mention anything other than their products to prevent people from know that there are other (better) solutions out there. They want to shield you with "user-friendliness".
I shake my fist at thee, Microsoft.

Uhm...

[NetJunkie]

People buy customers EVERY DAY. Look at the entire ISP market over the last 5 or more years. How do you think big ISPs got to be big ISPs? People didn't join them by the millions (except for maybe AOL), they bought smaller ISPs over and over.

Is it a bad thing? I think not. If you don't like it switch.

Good things from MSN?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better."

On the plus side, MSN does have "Terraserver". However, this is outweighed by the fact that 80% of the spam I get comes from MSN accounts. It does not make my life easier.

All your (customer) bases are belonging to MS

[WyldOne]

Is this how they do buisness? If you don't choose us we'll buy out your ISP? Bah. And I, like the internet, will route around this problem by switching my ISP. Wonder how many others will follow?

MSN is a good ISP

[robertchin]

Although some people say that people shouldn't use MSN because it's from "The Evil Empire," MSN is actually a very reliable and fast service. I don't hesitate to recommend people to MSN because it seems like they have a very large infrastructure with very little users. On top of that, although you can use the special MSN dialer, you can also log into MSN using a normal dial-up connection (your login because MSN/username or something like that). In addition, MSN is probably one of the only large ISPs that allows you to use a special modem to dial up with two lines in order to double your throughput. They also support ISDN and whatnot. Don't knock it until you try it!

MSN to Qwest.net:

[Anonymous Coward]

ALL YOUR ISP SERVICES...

Eh... Nevermind...

grotesque

[Anonymous Coward]

Any merger between Microsoft and U.S. West
is simply too grotesque to be believable. Won't the government stop this deal from going through?

vDSL customers are not infected, Linux on the....

[pmowry911]

other hand are "not supported by qwest.net" and therefore will be transitioned to msn as if you are a windows user as far as the sales rep just explained to me. All secondary e-mail accounts being terminated in favor of hotmail accounts would be the part to piss me off (if I was not a vDSL user).

I saw this coming!

[IMZombie]

and that's why @home is being installed on Monday. No more Qwest at all in my house.

Re:I saw this coming!

[twilightzero]

GODDAMIT I just got Qwest DSL installed a few weeks ago because it's the only broadband other than Cable in the area. Qwest doesn't want to work with other DSL companies and keep the pie all to themselves. And getting cable broadband sux because then you have to be on their digital cable and get the goddamn converter box that will only let you record on a single channel unless you're there to manually change it. This sux ASS! There goes my $200 for a DSL modem down the drain...could've spent it on that damn cd burner I want instead :( *sigh* Corporate America reams me up the ass once again...

Re:I saw this coming!

[Anonymous Coward]

I currently use Qwest for DSL but my ISP is Onewest.net They have done a great job, their cheap its less than qwest.net's service. customer service calls me regularly to check on my satisfaction, I got the first month free, and service has been up 24/7 since I started.

Your Qwest Leads To MSN

[csbruce]

The article title isn't phrased right. It should be:

All your Qwest are lead to Microsoft.

Re:MSN dialup/DSL with Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

For the data pipe aspect of MSN's service, this is indeed correct. It is worth noting, though, that MSN's mail service is now provided by Hotmail, and so can be accessed only by the website and Outlook Express. Thus, even Windows users who want to use Eudora or something else are out of luck with the pre-provided mail account, to say nothing of non-Windows users (except for people who use Mac OE, perhaps).

Still, if you ask me, getting your mail service through your ISP is a bad deal, anyway, whatever ISP it may be - as much as all ISPs (not just MSN) may want to tie you to their service, it's better to Just Say No, if you can figure out how.

Damnit all!

[ctimes2]

Now I have to switch AGAIN! going through the faq's, I have to make my point by point rebuttle:

A: There are many reasons why you should transition your service: With more than 230 million visitors per month, MSN is available in 33 markets and in 17 languages.

Does this mean it's not available to the rest of the internet? And why would I want to share my connection with 230 million others?

When you upgrade your service, special promotions are available to you.

You mean spam, right?

Quality, reliability and speed.

You mean I'm not getting that now? What the hell am I paying you for?!

Technical support, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at no charge!

Again, you mean I'm not getting that now? And if not, is tech support going to be through MS? Because they suck.

Continue to enjoy POP3 e-mail service, with an option to switch to the world's largest Web-based e-mail service, MSN Hotmail®, via MSN Internet Explorer and get up to nine e-mail screen names for you and the rest of your family.

Oh dear God. One at a time - Will my current pop mail be cut off? Do I have to switch to Hotmail? Do I have to use IE (attn. DOJ)?

Instant messaging from MSN Messenger Service, the fast growing instant messaging service.

Really, I don't use it and I don't want it

You get more space for your personal Web site from 5MB to 30MB.

That's what I get now. ?

Easy access to great resources from MSN that help make your life better.

Example please? Because in 7 years on the net I've never so much as found a service pack from MS that worked for me.

Catch up on the latest news from MSNBC

... CNN.

Listen to your favorite music

You mean I've imagined all the music I now listen too? Crap. I need help.

Play games

Again, my immagination?

Send instant messages

To who? Why?

Create an online photo album for your family

They're not pretty. Bad idea.

Personalize your home page with weather, sports, news or local events

... CNN.

Shop from the convenience of your home

How is this change going to change how I do it now?

Invest your money wisely

I'm assuming you're recomending linux?

Search for information

... google.

Send online greeting cards

... BlueMountian... oh wait. MS ruined them in 98.

Plan your vacation

.. stunned silence...

Take care of your family's health

.. still stunned.

And, so much more

I'm dumbfounded. I didn't realize that all of that wasn't available through my internet provider, quest.net. Those bastards have been ripping me off. I'm taking my porn and going home.

Use Qwest DSL, but not their ISP

[Doomdark]

I have Qwest's DSL (pro? 30$/month, 512 kbps) but a smaller ISP. I've been pleased with both, and (I hope) am not in danger of being transferred to the Borg. :-)

People should perhaps consider using separate company for their physical line (DSL) and actual Internet services (ISP). Combining those might produce small savings (for me about 5$... but no static IP, just 2 email addresses, no servers allowed etc. etc.), but it might not be worth the hassle. Since Qwest is cool enough (or non-monopolistic... as unbelievable as it is for ex-US West) to allow 'competing' ISPs, why not use this option? Competition really is the key. Besides, personally I think Qwest should be making much much more profit on providing the low-level connection and letting outside ISP take care of costy end-user help desk. I mean; ISP is the place people first contact; and they only get (in my case) 40% of the cake...
Disclaimer: I don't know if this is possible everywhere Qwest has DSL-service. I know it is in Colorado, though.

Extortion: Switch to MSN or be injured

[sp0rch]

Q: Why should I transition my service to MSN®?
A: There are many reasons why you should transition your service:
"Take care of your family's health"

Transition or we will put you and your family in a world of hurt

Slam on the brakes...

[SnakeStu]

I was just in the process of acquiring a dial-up account through Qwest... I should have known better than to feed the conglomerate, I guess I'll stick with the small ISP that costs more but isn't a MegaCorp. There's no way I would want to put any money toward MSN. I had my fill of Hotmail, as this Wired article describes.

Re:Ignorance & blindness: all certain /. posters n

[Bowie J. Poag]

Boy, who pissed in your Cheerios?

Your article is classic FUD, sir. Mired more in conjecture and fear than a careful analysis of facts.

And, as you put it, anyone with a couple of neurons to rub together would also realize that seeing your ISP being bought up by a larger parent company is something that happens pretty frequently these days. My old provider, Primenet, got bought up by GlobalCenter. Then GlobalCenter got bought up by yet another company, so I switched to AZStarNet. AZStarNet folded because their admins were inept, and swept their userbase into Concentric's dustbin. It happens all the time, and is no more newsworthy than any other simple ISP buyout. You billed it as FUD, and didn't even read your own crap before posting it to Slashdot.

And by the way, yeah, I put a goatse.cx link in one of my posts last week. I think that picture sums up what VA did to the Linux community more than any other picture i've seen in a long, long time. Since you've been kind enough to include a link to it in your own response, I suppose that means you're guilty of the same crime -- Posting a goatse.cx link in one of your responses.

Have a great day... Moron...

Re:Ignorance & blindness: all certain /. posters n

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha Poag, you got OWNED! :)

called qwest

[Anonymous Coward]

well its not as bad as i first thought. I called qwest and they said that Linux users would be treated as Mac users in other words be left alone and not changed until they can figure something out. also i can always change my isp to something else while keeping qwest as my DSL provider. Now if i can only get speakeasy.net to be my isp for qwest dsl it would be a perfect solution hook@speakeasy.org

MSN dialup/DSL with Linux

[XO]

I don't care if it's Microsoft, you people don't need to take that tone in your articles regarding MSN -- MSN Internet Access works just fine with Linux, with Macintosh, with OS/2 .. I've used it with all three.

Jesus, people. IT's like the ANTI-MS Hysteria has so gripped Slashdot editors, that they figure that NOTHING can be done right by them. (if it helps, MSN isn't really a big chunk of MS)

MSN in fact, is probably one of the fastest DIALUP carriers. When I used their Dialup, it was insanely fast compared to all others in the area. And trust me, I've been around long enough to have used virtually EVERY ISP.

Re:MSN dialup/DSL with Linux

[XO]

That's not true at all. I am accessing my MSN account from my Cable provider that has absolutely nothing to do with MSN.. using KMail 2.1 on a RH7 base..

(RH7 upgraded to XF86 4.1.0, upgraded to KDE2.1)

Works fine for me.
Also, Yahoo has excellent POP capabilities as well, from what I"ve seen, though their servers and datapipe aren't nearly the size/speed of MSN's.

And I'm still getting email services from my first landline ISP.. oh, and I've got my own email server setup on the LAN, so I've got 4 accounts there. And I"ve used it all on both dialup MSN, and MSN DSL.. and now with Comcast Cable.

It all works great. Just plug it into the new provider and bam.. it goes!

scary thought for the day

[mikeee]

What if the business and politics stories in the paper are just as accurate as the technology stories?

Worse than a cartoon cat

[bee]

You remind me of the cartoon cat wearing glasses with the bird painted on them so that everywhere he looks, he sees the bird. How hard is it for you to READ the FAQ and notice how it presumes that if you're not running Windows, you're on a Mac? Again, if you had a brain, you'd observe that users are being migrated from a service where all OSen are more-or-less equal to one that is heavily favored in favor of Microsoft, and other operating systems are marginalized or shut out entirely. This is what people don't like: Microsoft is using their leverage to try to make it less and less feasible for people to use other operating systems. This is why there's been this lawsuit by the DOJ and 20 states against Microsoft, in case you haven't noticed. There's my 'careful analysis of the facts', sir. It's the standard Microsoft playbook being run to the letter. My post was factual from start to finish, unlike your posts full of ad hominem attacks that get moderated up thanks to your multiple accounts (how else did your goatse.cx post make it to +4?). Go away, slashdot doesn't need fools like you.

Lesser of two evils-- or is it?

[photovoltaics]

I live in a Qwest area, and I hate them for their abhorrent phone service and over-billing and blatant lying to cover it all up. I hate Micro$oft because I'm a sys admin in a small business without big bucks to spend on a gig on RAM for a freakin' exchange server (not that I'd spend the money on it if I could-- see /. article on terrabyte server for less than $5K).
Like the current U.S. national politiical situation, the decision we have is seemingly left to the lesser of two evils. But if we dig a little deeper, we can do something about it. Neighborhood associations, Apartment complexes, and any other community aggregates should come together, get a T-1 or an 802.11b setup, and they'd save much of the hassle and money they will throw at either one of these two unscrupulous companies looking to fatten either Joe Nachio or Bill Gate's wallets.

Email from Qwest

[maX_]

On a somewhat related note....

I have USQwest's Choicetv and online service ( VDSL).
I received this email from qwest.net (sorry about the formatting)
From: gsp-change@qwest.net
To: gsp-change@qwest.net
Subject: Billing Changes
Status: U
X-UIDL: 996746157.89745.xxxxxxxx.xxxx.uswest.net
This is an informational notice only. There is no change in your total Qwest.net charges. Please do not respond to this e-mail.
Effective August 2, 2001 your Global Service Provider will change from T-NETIX to Touch.
Currently T-NETIX carries all your Internet traffic across the LATA.
You may continue to see T-NETIX on your billing until all our records are corrected, estimated time to complete the conversion is January 2002.
The Global Service Provider charge is separate from your Qwest.net service. However, the combined Qwest.net and Touch America charges continue to be the amount you are currently being billed for you Internet service.
Should you have questions about this notice, or about anything else regarding your Qwest.net billing, please do not respond to this e-mail, contact your account manager or the Business Office:
by calling: xxx-xxx-xxxx
I couldn't make heads nor tails of it, even after calling Qwest's billing and help desk
Then I found this disclaimer:
Qwest cannot provide interLATA long distance service originating, interLATA 8XX service terminating; or interLATA private line or data
circuits with either end in the states of AZ, CO, ID, IA, MN, MT, NE, NM, ND, OR, SD, UT, WA, and WY.
Qwest provides Internet services in these states in conjunction with a separately billed, required Global Service Provider (GSP).

After the USW/Qwest merger, they were forced to sell off certain services to not be in violation of the Sherman Act.
They sold their dialups to MSN, and are outsourcing their DSL in areas where they are the major LATA carrier.

Prices....

[FireChipmunk]

They Fail to Mention that the Price for MSN Internet is $21.95 a month. Thanks Microsoft!(up from $14.95)
So Let me get this straight, I get "better" service", and minimum linux support, and you want me to pay more?

Sorry I think I will change ISPs and take my DSL else where.
Anyways I doubt Microsoft would like to see WindowsXP RC2 ISO coming on my DSL Line. Or me connected to Gnutella. Nope I am going elsewere.!

Online internet belgium

[fenux]

pfff, actually, besides the ugly homepage ( a wrongfull combination of MSN and their previous page) I haven't found any problems when MSN affilated with my provider (now cable and wireless, used to be online internet)... and I only use linux... they still have no support for linux, and they still think i'm booting my pc when it's in textmode

Re:Worse than a FUD-throwing idiot.

[Bowie J. Poag]

Hah, thats the first time somebody accused me of having "multiple accounts". Thats a good one. So, lemmie get this straight. Microsoft is evil evil evil, and they're eeeevil, and evil. Thats your stance. Meanwhile, the rest of the industry is doing the same exact thing. Buying up ISPs, and migrating customers! The FAQ states pretty clearly that it only applies to Qwest.net customers, and only a portion thereof. To quote directly from the FAQ:

"Under the agreement, MSN will become the preferred Internet Service Provider (ISP) for some Qwest.net Consumer Internet Access customers"

What part of "some" is confusing to you?

This whole ordeal only affects Qwest.net customers...Each of which signed a contract that stated Qwest can do whatever the hell they want to do with their customer accounts. The rest of us use local, privately-owned ISPs, and aren't affected by this.

Re:Worse than a FUD-throwing idiot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bo,

This monkey couldn't sling shit in an ape cage at the zoo for a banana. He's be too busy sniffing it, and rubbing it all over his genitals.

Big slobbering curri-laced kissies,
Mojeeb

$32/month for 640k down 200k up

[bwhalen]

Look at the prices these guys are charging, you're being treated like a dialup customer cuz thats what yer paying for. they have 1 meg sdsl for 100/month. I havent seen that for less than 225 in cali. Bottom line, they want Uncle Bill's dough. There are some business class customers that apparently will not be transitioned.

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[SoftwareJanitor]

Why are you offering condolences? 40k in GBP is about $56k USD, and since the UK has obscene tax rates, if it is after tax as he says, then he must be making nearly six figures before taxes, if not into six figures. So you are trying to tell me that Iowa State pays better than that? I seriously doubt it. I worked there over 10 years ago, and basically doubled my pay when I went elsewhere. They, like most universities pay poorly. A friend of mine who worked there when I did and is still working up there probably makes less than 1/2 what I do now, dispite the fact that he graduated from ISU with a 3.9something GPA and I never bothered to finish my degree.

As for spelling, I know a whole lot of well paid people in the business who can't spell worth a damn. Yes, it can be annoying, but it doesn't seem to hurt them as much as all the anal retentive english teachers in school told us it would...

SO to avoid this for now...

[WyldOne]

Say I'm a mac user - Cool. they already think I'm a Windows user.

I just talked to a Qwest Rep.

[lyapunov]

Here is the skinny. I told them I used FreeBSD (they did not know what that was so I told them Linux) and they are going to hold off transition for those folks until something else can be figured out.

I asked about upgrading to the officeworks package but they said that that too would be phased over to msn shit access in due time.

they were happy to provide me with a list of alternative isp's in my area.

TAKE HEART!

[rutledjw]

I'm a qwest DSL user. I've been pretty happy b/c I'm running a Linux box and a couple servers and they don't really care. My IP is stable if there's no power loss at the modem, etc... BUT, I was NOT amused at this. i can only assume that MSN was NOT planning on offering any kind of Linux support (since you have to run their d@mn virusware to connect). A little notices item on the FAQ is that if you're not running Windows, you're not eligable! They only mention Mac by name, but when I called to ask, they told me I wasn't eligable. :( You mean I don't have Uncle Bill watching over my shoulder! Curses! Apparently they send you an e-mail asking you to convert and you reply telling them you're not eligable! Whew, i was starting to look for other ISPs...

Money talks

[babble]

Just did my own 'transitioning' When the customer services rep asked why I was changing ISPs I told it was because I objected to being SLAMMED. She actually didn't know what I was talking about which was kind of funny, and after she went away to talk to her supervisor, she claimed MSN and qwest.net were merging!

Looking over the site... couldn't help but notice.

[Mojo Geek]

..places to sign up. Places to tell them of technical problems. No place to tell them "gee, I would sign up but you don't friggin' support me". whoops..I meant to type .sig not .sigg

Aha!

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the FAQ - look at the nature of the service. This is aimed right at AOL.

Re:Jesus H. Christ, grow up!

[john@iastate.edu]

Iowa State pays me almost $80K/yr in salary and TSA (plus some really nice benefits like 41 days off), but the real money is in consulting where I can equal a week's salary in a day (but, of course, you get no insurance, etc with that).