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Make Your Own DSL
Logic Bomb writes: "Robert Cringley's latest is a striking set of instructions on how to create your own DSL service, or even your own "socialist Internet Service Provider". A cookie goes to whomever manages to implement this first! :-D" Cringley is on a roll.
Gives a new meaning to "Code Red"....
Je t'aime Stéphanie
You're kinda missing the whole if you think this article offers any useful information. Broadband without access to the internet is somewhat less than useful for the majority of people. And having DSL between me and Jimmy down the block doesn't do much good when it's just slamming into my 56k modem to get to the "internet".
I tried to order one of these circuits about three months ago, and apparantly the telco's are on to this. I wanted to connect two buildings, so I tried ordering a "dry pair" from Verizon, and they said they didn't do those anymore.
I ended up ordering a PtP T1, which is only going to increase the cost of replacing the aging 56k circuit, now connecting the two buildings, by $110. Not bad considering the increase in bandwidth.
Makes sense to me. People in my area have been waiting in line for months to get DLS installed correctly.
It's the same technology you use for your analog telephone, or that the burglar alarm companies use to learn of break-in attempts. Back in the days before the internet, it was how a business with two buildings in the same general area (but too far to walk) could keep in touch on their internal phone system.
Some of these wires probably powered the telegraph many decades ago.
Yes, except that then you coulld say, start up a local internet co/op in your neighborhood/apartment/housing project. Offer service for 30 bucks a month and if you get enough takers (approx 17 subscribers) you can afford a REAL T1 line to the net. With only 20 or so subscribers, chances are good that when you load up a webpage youre the only one doing so at that time. As long as no one is hosting linux distros, youre golden (and of course you can have a clause in your service contract to charge for thruput). Everyone gets cheap high speed internet access, and you get to make some money on the side.
I think his point is valid.
If I had a dry pair to your house, we could shuttle info back and forth very effectively, right? If we both had a 802.11b point, then so could our neighbors, for about a couple miles or whatever the range is. You now have 30, 40 people hooked up to each other.
If one other person in each of these clouds also had a dry pair to another house elsewhere, and their own bridge, they could connect pairs of clouds... linked dumbbells, as it were. Each point would link up 10 or so houses, until a grassroots net could spring up, catering exclusively to the town. All it would take is one individual, perhaps working collectively with 20 other people, to get a high bandwidth connection, say a T1, or whatever, even a 'normal' 2mb DSL line, and this gathering of clouds hooked up by dry lines would be connected to the larger 'net. He doesn't mention this in his article, but it's a reasonable next step.
It's about communal, grassroots, bottoms up, emergent behavior type internet, and not the traditional top down subscription based allocated and doled up bandwidth that is the norm.
GPL Deconstructed
OK, so you can rent a dry circuit between your house and the local CO for cheap. Big deal. As Cringley says, in order to turn that into an internet connection, you need to hook onto someone else's backbone. You need an IP address and (more importantly) have someone tell the upstream routers how to find it. And that is what's going to cost you. About the only way this could be made to work (cheaply) is if you know somone who'll let you hang a router off their backbone.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Cringely got it right, in my last business, the area was out of dedicated "Data Lines", so PB had to send out an install tech who really knew what he was doing, i was looking over his shoulder and noticed that he was using our alarm lines...the tech told me almost exactly the same story as Cringely, including that if you called PB and asked for a pair of "guard lines" you'd be told they didn't exist or that they were all assigned in your area.
SOME THINGS TO NOTE:
since this is a point-to-point connection, your throughput will vary with the quality of your wire pairs
you might also need to perform line balancing, as some of these wire have been in the ground/air for a LONG time
if you have big power transformers or other "leaky" devices near your wires, your S/N ratio could be terrible
AND, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, anyone can just simply t-splice your line to get 100% access to your communications, with maybe just having to perform a simple impedence adjustment...
BUT, still cool for all of that BTW, when "Boardwatch Magazine" still had Jack Richards they ran a very similar (but more detailed) piece on this about 3 years ago
Peace, Love to my Homies
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
Yup, even Slashdot has covered it before. I guess its novel 'cause Cringely's talking about it tho.
Somebody please, tell this machine I'm not a machine.
It is SDSL technology. And to learn more, I would check out "DSL for Dummies," which is actually a decent book. I worked in Network Ops for a year or so at a national DSL provider, and you'd be surprised how many of our engineers had a copy of that one. :-)
I'm right by new orleans... How much was the cost?
A cookie goes to whomever manages to implement this first! :-D"
:-). (I thought I'd never see the day when I'd come across "whom" on Slashdot)
I don't have a cookie to give to him, but I'd like to grant an honorary cookie to Logic Bomb for correctly using who/whom
PS Through researching the link for who/whom, I came across this surprisingly interesting discussion on teaching non-native English speakers the finer points of how to use the phrase "the hell!".
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
Once that dry pair is connected to the Net, you can subscribe to an IP telephony service, and then you're only paying Ma Bell for the wire. Sweet!
send all spam to theotherwhitemeat@ropine.com
Please note. My name is Cringely, not Cringley.
The former sounds like what people do when they read the alarmist drivel I write.
The latter sounds like a potato chip commercial.
Sincerely,
Robert X. Cringely
He's shown us how to get a circuit established cheaply. Actually doing it may be made difficult by your phone company, but it shows how they are trying to rape data services for so much more money than than things like security systems.
The real problem is that you want connectivity to the internet. Even if you find someone who's willing to piggy back you on their circuit, chances are they're violating their terms of service by doing it. That may get them cut off if they're caught. If they're doing NAT it would be hard for their ISP to find out.
If you really want to offer legitament ISP services, then you'd get your circuit to another ISP, and you'd ask to buy transit rights. Unfortunetly, these don't come cheap. You have to pay them for allowing your data to cross their network, and they probably have to pay transit fees to another ISP which they'll pass along to you.
It's a great idea. I'd like to see lots of free bandwidth. There's just many many hands between you and the global internet and they all want their cut. By the time you're done it isn't cheap.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The alarm line trick as been around for ages. Usually using the line to cross connect a CSU/DSU like it was a frame circuit. The problem isn't technology, it's quality. High speed datacomm expects certain line quality in order to do what it needs to do. Things like quality of the line, minium data throughput, etc are all defined in the tariff. Problem with these types of lines is that the tariff basically says the line should pass a simple continuity test and that's it. Afterall, that's all an alarm needs. So, if you get a real noisy line, you're sunk.
As an experiment that's fine, but don't let a business depend on this because you'll have no recourse with the Telco.
This is great! I live in an area in which DSL in not available, but a freidn of mine who lives jsut over a maile away can get it. We were considering a fewwireless solutions to get me connected to his network, but this seems much less expensive.
Seriously... has anyone with a legal background thought about this?
Price gouging. Protectionism. Unethical quashing of the competition. These are *supposed* to be against the interests of a truly free market, and therefore illegal.
Most of those lines were laid out during the govt-sanctioned monopoly days, so an argument could be made that the taxpayers are entitled to use those lines however they see fit. Why should the telcos act entitled?
Perhaps if a large enough group of people threatened to sue the telcos for fraud under anti-trust or (much harder to prove but also more powerful) RICO laws, we could bring things back into check?
:M
I'm reasonably sure that it's the reverse of what you state- the T-1 interferes with the DSL. T-1 is "high power" - there's real voltage running down a T-1 pair, and if there's a T-1 circuit in a bundle, that renders that bundle unfit for DSL.
I work at a phone company (a big, big one, with an ampersand in the name) and this is absolutely not BS.
In fact, we're now selling voice services over dry pair lines using DSL. If we can do it, you certainly can. As long as you don't give up before you even start...
There's only a couple reasons why he would be able to get DSL and you can't.
#1, you're on different CO's
#2, you have lousy wiring into your neighborhood
#3, He's close enough to the CO, and you're not.
In the case of #1, you can't use an alarm circuit. In the case of #2, you won't have the quality to get a signal anyway, and in the case of #3, your line has to go from you, to the CO, and back to him. If you can't get DSL one way to the CO, you definitely can't do this in and back out again.
The companies can tell you they don't offer the service, but sometimes they will be lying (as Cringley notes).
Telcos are regulated. Unlike a regular corporation they can't just stop offering a service that they don't like. They can just neglect to train their staff in it and hope eveyone forgets about it.
But if you push them they have to comply. The services that Verison can offer in New York is specified by the tariff in that state, and it's state law. There are some really nit-picky regulations (down to standards for signal strengh and placement of network interfaces in apartment buildings). In exchange for all these budensome regulations Verison gets a monopoly on New York state phone service for all intents and purposes.
The Public Service Commission is the state body in New York that oversees this, using both carrot (deregulation) and stick (fines) to motivate Verison. In my experience, Verison-people CARE about getting in trouble with the PSC, and more people should know that. The evaluation of managers at all levels includes a measure of PSC complaints.
So if the phone company denies you your "burgler alarm" check with your state's equivalent regulatory body to see if you are being lied to. (You may also want to do research on the actual tariff itself to see if it's still on the books where you live.)
$300 here, $250 there, I'd rather just pay for Verizon DSL or a cable modem.
-You can cry, but you'll still die. There'll be no tears in the end.
The problem is, Verizon lies to me. They say they won't support me, too far away, blah, blah, blah.
I had Northpoint for a couple of months (before they went tits up) and it worked fine. For whatever reason (cable modems not yet available in my neighborhood?) they won't service me.
FWIW, this is a great idea. I live in one of those community things with a neighborhood swimming pool, and crap like that. I may go to the next meeting, and propose that we do something like this. Having 'free' internet service (covered in your neighborhood association dues) would likely boost property values slightly. Let the server be at the neighborhood center, put up an antenna that covers the neighborhood.
Then, sell wireless cards to residents (record the MAC) and give them service. In addition, block people with 'wild' MACs, and if they don't pay the neighborhood fee, suspend access.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I ran a connection over a dry loop for a few years when I lived in student family housing at my school. At the time, the only connectivity choice was a 9600baud ISN (serial) connection. So, for $3 a month or something the University's telecom group connected a dry pair between my apartment and my office on campus.
I used a pair of short haul modems to run a 38400 SLIP connection over the dry loop. This is nothing compared to the speed of DSL technology, but at the time $150 an end was about all I could afford, and DSL stuff wasn't available at a consumer level.This setup worked great until bridge construction (the over a river type of bridge) caused the connection to be rerouted, and it never worked right again. A kind telecom employee took pity on me and I used an illicit second phone line to dial into my office for another year or so, until somebody noticed the connection on the switchboard. After that I was limited to dialing in on my main phone line and getting a cell phone for voice. (Paying the university for a second phone line was more expensive than getting a cell phone.)
Of course, now a few years later the apartments I lived in have 10/100 connections onto the University backbone.
BTW, if anybody is interested in buying some used short haul modems, let me know...
Almost forgot: partner with a local ISP for the connectivity. Or, partner with the local cable company. Let them run a big fat pipe to the neighborhood center, and let us take care of the last mile.
A bit of advertising (and income) for them. Hell, with a bit of money, we could run the mail servers and all of that crap (and obviously some sort of proxy).
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The main reason that you should go and do this is that, with the current situation, the Telco has no incentive to drive cheap and fast installs of DSL out to your area. They will not build new COs as a way to deny this, and require you to go T1/T3. They will claim "there's a line problem" on a fresh install in a new house when you can see the CO at the end of the block.
But, if enough people do this, they will have to react. Sure, they'll try to shut it down. Then you just get a Burglar Alarm business and buy em up that way. Eventually they'll get a clue stick and realize that they need to stop seeing those disappearing T1/T3 sales that stop them from driving out DSL quickly (they lose money), and see those disappearing DSL sales that at least they made some money on.
In the absence of regulatory push, sometimes you have to push it yourself. We are Americans - we deserve DSL to every building! Nothing less. Until they wise up and deliver it for less than $50 a month, we need to fight guerilla style, and grab all the high-speed access we can, at whatever the cost.
We shall fight them on the airwaves. We shall fight them at the COs. We shall fight them for every sliver of high-speed data access. We shall never surrender, for we are the wired age, and noone shall stand in our way!
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
A class action suit would be the last resort, first complain to the local utility board.
My problem (which a roll-your-own DSL would solve, but with a cost I don't want to absorb) is how to do a wan over an area of about 3 miles radius, with at least one connection having to span 2.5 miles. The roll-your-own DSL would require too many connections, wireless won't broadcast over 1 mile (AFAIK) and everything else is a pain. I'll I'm looking for is something cheap, easily changed (moving nodes - wireless is preferred), and is capable of about 1 - 10 mbps.
Any ideas? I'm happy to fish ebay for parts to lower costs.
Does anybody know the prices of satellite 2-way internet service?
science is a religion
bear the cost of the T1 access point, and pass it to the neighbors monthly. I've had a dry pair connect going before to a friend the lives block or so away. A couple of guys in our local lan group are phone techs who set up the lines for us.
We had 10 people at my house and 8 at his connected to UT and TFC via the dry pair and both our cable/dsl connects. Worked nicely and made for an AWESOME lan party.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
MAN I believe, as in Metropolitan Area Network. :)
Urban Area Network, might be closer but it is lacking as a name
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Has anyone successfully convinced their ISP to provide internet access for them this way - i.e. to order that "alarm circuit" from your house to the ISP and have a DSL model located at the ISP to which they give you a net connection? If so, then how did they handle support (say you want to reset the DSL model at their end)?
Maybe I'm a bit cynical, but I find it hard to see an ISP offering this personalized level of service...
Cadvision is a great example of this. Too bad they sold out to the man ;)
I've also done this completely home-brew several years ago. It's nothing 'new' or 'revealing'... people just don't bother to look beyond the buzzword.
The whole point of ADSL was that it worked over standard copper pairs...
Also.. for those trying to order a 'dry pair' and being told it can't be done.. check regulations, or try asking for an 'alarm circuit'. I believe most phone companies are obliged to sell such a service.
We use the megabit modems extensively for our business DSL deployment (no DSL offered from the telco, so we do it the hard way). When we started we couldn't justify buying a DSLAM so we just hooked them up back-to-back as described in Cringely's article and as long as you have the rate set the same on both ends, they just work. No, they're not RADSL and personally, I prefer that.
We've had zero trouble with these units, having installed about a dozen or so over the past 3 years. Great for businesses who KNOW they want on the 'net at high speed, but for a personal connection or as a trial they're a bit pricey. That's why I've been working on some alternatives.
I've just purchased a pair of Efficient Networks 5250 SDSL bridges. They don't specifically state that they'll work back-to-back but after some research and initial legwork I think they'll work just fine as a cheap alternative. They can be had for USD$50 from Ebay.
Pairgain stuff has the longest "reach" of all the DSL equipment we've investigated but they are also one of the more expensive ones out there. I suppose you get what you pay for. :-)
He really doesn't like the phone company, does he...
Since they're a dry pair, they didn't need the load coils- since it's not going into a switch. It's a short-haul modem/300-9600 baud line as far as they're concerned and the impedance isn't going to be off by enough to mess any of that up.
Of course, they're right, the load coils aren't a problem, per se, with the alarm system hardware, but that's beside the point- you asked for a dry pair, meaning nothing on it at all.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I'm hardly a neophyte when it comes to technical stuff, but a lot of this article went over my head. Am I alone here? Maybe I'm just tired right now.
It's really that easy.
All you're ordering from the phone company is a pair of copper wires going from point A to point B. The names differ depending on the phone company, but that's all it is. Two pieces of copper wire, which go from your house to your friend's house.
Now, within reason, you can pump anything you want across that wire. Voice, ordinary modem data, etc.
DSL is simply a special kind of 56k modem. It carries the data exactly the same way as an ordinary modem, but it uses a few tricks so that you can use the telephone line at the same time. For one thing, it carries the data at higher frequencies than voice communications - that's how it doesn't interfere with voice. The next thing is that it doesn't load down the telephone line enough for the telephone company's equipment to detect that a phone is off-hook. But aside from that, it's just a 56k modem.
An ordinary modem is restricted to run no higher than about 3kHz, leaving a small pipe to carry the data. On the other hand, DSL typically starts at about 5kHz, and depending on circuit (line) quality, can go up to about 256kHz. That's a lot more bandwidth than a 56k modem has available; as a result, using 56k modem modulation techniques (QUAM, it's called, "QUadrature Amplitude Modulation"), you can carry a lot more data.
If you connect two DSL modems to the copper pair that you get from the telephone company, they should connect and communicate, just like two 56k modems on the same line. (Hell, you could even do it simultaneously!) That's all there is to it.
An established ISP merely has the telephone company connect a modem at the phone company's central office. Today, they're usually built into your "loop card", which is the device that connects your telephone line to the switching system.
Problems with a do-it-yourself copper line from the phone company could arise with distance (since the dry pair will probably go to the phone company and will be manually patched on the other customer's dry pair) and with EMI line coils. (Telephone companies will often put inductors across the line to help with stability for voice communications; often, these interfere with the high frequency DSL signal.)
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
If you haven't read Cringley before, he's in an area where he can't get DSL access. However, if you can talk a business (who has a T-1 or better) or a local ISP to let you set one end of your connection there, then you're in business.
And just think, you'd have your own DSL, on your own private loop, *without PPPoE*!
While Roaring Penguin's PPPoE kicks butt, PPPoE is still a messy kludge, and being able to get away from it is reason enough to attempt something like this.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
It sounds like a great idea - But the phone company will eventually catch on. What happens to your business (and all your capitol costs) when the phone company calls you up and says you can't use those pairs anymore?
Of course, just try getting a "real" T-1 anymore (at least in PacBell or Verizon territories). What they give you is HDSL with T-1 emulation at the NIU.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
As a city dweller, this sounds like it would have hack value, but little more for wiring up my house.
However, some of my family lives out in rural Washington State. The nearest telco exchange (and the only ISP) is 10 miles away, and the terrain is so hilly that 802.11 is absolutely impossible.
The way I read this, one would be able to set up a broadband connection to Stixtown with four segments of copper and a few DSL modems set up as bridges.
8 Cisco 675s @ $80/each off Ebay = $640 in upfront
costs.
4 Segments of wire @ (hypothetically) $30/month = $120/month + bandwidth charges.
If a sharing arrangment (via 802.11b?) could be set up with the nine or so houses which are line-of-sight from Stixville Farms, it might even make financial sense.
Did I miss anything, or can a DSL maven see a problem with my plans?
j.
Would that be "Dyslexic Line Service"?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
i used to work at an isp where dsl was no where in the near future for our customers, only because of the practices of the local phone company (read baby bell). anyway... you may also want to check in what is sometimes refered to as a BANE circuit (i believe) as this is another name for the alarm circuits.
;) ) basically hdsl over a single pair, with increased distances.
one last thing to keep in mind: if the phone company has a load coil on that pair that you plan on using, your dreams have just been killed. sorry.
either way, some new equipment is starting to surface which brings some new ideas to the table for lines like this such as hdsl2 (search on google, you'll like it
i have to say tho, the idea of moving into the old alarm company's building is a good one, too bad there weren't any around really where we were looking to do this.
"Here's 50 bucks, take this in case I get drunk and call you a bitch later." - Ricky (Vince Vaughn)Made (2001)