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Hosting Provider Shut Down By FBI
An Anonymous Reader writes: "An 80-strong U.S. FBI agents raided the Texas-based host of Arabic Web sites, including that of the Arab world's leading independent news channel, prompting charges on Thursday of an 'anti-Muslim witchhunt.'" The Reuters story is at Yahoo! as well. Did you know there was a North Texas Joint Terrorism Task Force, or that it would be shutting down ISPs?
Imagine if an FBI raid on CNN resulting in the broadcaster going off the air for a few hours, or the website being shut down.
I think there's some bias here.
Sure, they probably have a search warrant. Sure, it's probably warranted. But this wouldn't be the first news organization had some information the police wanted or needed, and didn't hand it over. Journalists have these crazy ideas about protecting their sources, and don't always willingly give the police what they want.
But still, if it were a western mainstream media organization the police would be careful not to disrupt operations.
I think there must be some bias here.
Their operations were simply interrupted while the Fed's conducted their search. The sites came back online, fair and square.
...
The search was perfectly legal, and executed per the law.
For crying out loud, glib sensationalism is the last thing slashdot needs more of
Shame!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
While the fourth amendment may not have been violated due to the fact that there was a valid search warrant, this kind of tactic sounds like classic 'silencing' to me. The warrant was sealed, right? Why were the offices raided? The quote in the reuters story from the owner indicated that he seemed to think that his news outlets were being targeted for being related to terrorist groups. There was *no* firm reason for the raid given.
Sounds very totalitarian, doesn't it?
As a Texan, I'm rather upset that we have a 'anti-terrorism force' at all! Hevean help me if I started to express anti-American views on my website!
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I have heard of this Arab newstation before. I saw a story about it on american television, I forget which channel.. perhaps BBC-america.
:(
The arab governments have fears that it may bring democracy.. well, not all of them. The newstation is located in Jordan. The prime-minister of Jordan, on this television documentary I watched admitted that the coming of democracy would be good and supported the efforts of this news station.
I can not see how their website was breaking American law, although they may have been breaking laws in other countries.. which shouldn't matter if it is hosted in the USA. The most the Arab countries should be able to do, imho, is to arrest the runners of this newstation.
Of course, the Arab government are afraid to do anything because they would be making martyrs of the procecuted.. I guess that is why they had the USA do the dirty work for them
This is the first direct sign that the USA is turning it's heels on democracy. This is the first time that the USA has tried to dissolve protesters cries of their corrupt, non-democratic government.
If it were a jewish ISP being shut down then this would be all over the news.
Well, this is an interesting situation:
We have the FBI, who I don't trust.
We have the Arabic news sources, who I also don't trust.
The FBI is denying any kind of bias whatsoever, and that the investigation is totally unrelated to terrorist concerns, anti-palestinian, anti-muslim, or anti anything else.
Still, until we have any better information (which I'm looking forward to) this amounts to a very short period of Government sponsored hacktivism (okay, it's arguable how much hacktivism is involved when the G-men come in and take you offline, but it's the same result as geeks taking down opressors and terrorists sites on the other side of the world.)
Found some news clips.
Anti-terrorism agents raid Texas Internet business
FBI Raids Muslim Businesses, Charity Organizations
FBI Raids Dallas-Area Web Business
I guess it's OK for Muslim complaints to take out a Hindu web site, but it's not OK for federal investigation to shut down some Muslim web sites for a few hours.
BTW, the Hindu web site found hosting again on a server run by a militant Jewish group. The New York Times ran a story on it a few months ago; it's funny what strange bedfellows these sorts of things can make.
I expect this will be modded down to about -200 in a few minutes...interesting how the truth can do that.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
http://www.wfaa.com/wfaa/articledisplay/0,1002,310 13,00.html 1 20,00.html
http://www.wfaa.com/wfaa/articledisplay/0,1002,31
This reminds me so much of the Steve Jackson Games raid of a decade ago. Yes, the warrant was valid. And sealed. The effect was to nearly silence a voice the SS didn't like.
1Alpha7
Live to be Moderated
And the search was probably justified. Muslim
terrorist groups use fronts disguised as charities
to move money around, and the Holy Land Foundation
has long been suspected of being a financial front
for Hamas. Since HLF uses the Web to collect
donations by way of credit cards, a search of the
Web hosting company is legit.
Where's the "-1: Self-Indulgent Posing" option?
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
The site involved was hinduunity.org.
The talk of *BIAS* is ridiculous spincasting by the media and by people that like to constantly complain about persecution. The FBI serves warrants and searches businesses all the time. That's part of their job, like it or not. They don't sit around a water cooler and say "Let's go raid some Moslem businesses this week...that'd be a hoot. We don't like Moslems."
Come on - that's just stupid. They're working an investigation and this is where it brought them. There are NO details in either article...just journalists looking for a story they can blow out of proportion. If it had been a warehouse where large quantities of twine is stored by a couple of surly old kansas natives it wouldn't have even made the news. No FUD value. That kind of thing happens every week.
-Rothfuss
They've shut down Infocom.
You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike. It is dark, if you proceed, you are likely to be eaten by a grue.
xyzzy AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
What kind of shit is this? If you're going to be violating people's property and impeding commerce, you'd better have a damn valid reason that will stand up to public scrutiny. Otherwise, we might as well get rid of trial by jury, the pesky fifth amendment or the obligation to prove one's guilt before issuing a sentence. Yeah, that's the ticket, just like in those documentaries about the Third Reich that must be the talk of the town in Quantico nowadays.
This makes me sick.
Now, I am about as pro-Palestinian as things get. But your rhetoric of racism and Zionism is nauseating. Yes, Israel is a fake country plucked out of Palestinian land. But that was 50 years ago. Israel exists and is populated with people who view themselves as Israeli.
The challenge is to carve up fair and equitable borders between the two countries. This is an extremely difficult challenge. The alternative, however, is mutual destruction. So stop whining about irrelevancies.
I'm glad that we have police forces to protect us from those vicious electrons, that so frequently get out of control and become destructive.
Bush's education improvements were
Frankly, this doesn't surprise me. George W. Bush and his administration have no problem with you being a different skin color, economic/social class, sexual orientation, etc. as long as you act like them. I'm not saying the Dems are better, but at least there's some indicator from them that you don't have to goosestep to their march exactly the way the Republicans do...
I'm seriously thinking of moving to Canada until the Shrub presidency is over if this type of action is going to become commonplace. I definitely don't want to raise my children (who will be European/Filipino) in an environment that the Bush Clan seems to think ideal if that environment means silencing dissent and allowing banks to close accounts based on religious views...
The Hindu Unity website incident is a very different situation. The site had some strong anti-Muslim views, particularly towards Muslims in India. Stuff that could be interpereted as a call for violence against Muslims in India (the current home page has a cartoon of Muslims stabbing to death a Hindu mother). And people complained to the ISP, who told the organization to take their business elsewhere. Here is an article.
The case of the ISP in Texas involves the government shutting down, albeit temporarily and as an incidental consequence of searching for evidence, lots of websites without explanation, only a sealed warrant. This includes one of the most prominent sites news of the middle east that is not controlled by a government of the region.
People get up in arms about controversial websites, like porn sites, hate sites, spammer sites, radical anti-abortion sites, etc, all the time. And sometimes, complaints to the ISP are effective in forcing the site to move to an ISP that is less concerned about complaints from the public. That isn't really news.
The government shutting down 500 mostly arab-related websites without explanation should be considered more newsworthy.
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
Jewish-Muslim relations are strained because for centuries these relations were dictated by Sharia Law, which placed Jews in a submissive position. A good portion of the Muslim community of the US regards Jews as if they (well, we) have cooties, and this won't change any time soon. At least since the US has never been under Sharia, Muslims and Jews can try to build relations that are not based on Sharia. The Mideast, however, was under Sharia law, and there are fatwas that explicitly forbid having equality with Jews in the region. Since Jews won't settle for less than equality nowadays, the Mideast is a hot potato.
I'm not a Hindu and some what HinduUnity.org preaches scares the heck out of me. But it shouldn't be forced off its ISP by crybabies. I just can't stand the hypocritical posturing.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Radio Free Nation had a quick story on this about lunch time.
Since they are a political site, they may be more appropriate for this sort of discussion.
They may even welcome an article if you put something up that is well thought out and coherantly argued.
- - -
Radio Free Nation
an alternate news site using Slash Code
"If You have a Story, We have a Soap Box"
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
For all kinds of great info on this topic, read The Hacker Crackdown, by Bruce Sterling. The entire text is available on the web all sorts of places. Like here, for instance. It's an excellent book.
An 80-strong U.S. FBI agents raided the Texas-based host of Arabic Web sites, including that of the Arab world's leading independent news channel, prompting charges on Thursday of an 'anti-Muslim witchhunt.'
Why is it that every time the government does something bad to (e.g. raids) something that is owned primarily by minorities (e.g. Muslims), the victims cry racism? I'd be ignorant to think that it doesn't happen at all, but this is just plain ridiculous. It seems to me that they are just looking for a scapegoat -- the FBI didn't raid us because of our [p0rn || warez || etc.], they raided us because of our [race || religion || etc.]! Give me a break. IMO people like this need to grow up and realize that not everything bad that happens to them is because of their minority status.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Fat chance. The problem isn't that you have to divide up Israel fairly and equitably - the problem is that there's a couple of major religions born there. The followers of those religions are of the opinion (delusion) that God has promised that land to THEM - so it is therefore their sacred duty to occupy that land and throw out the followers of those Other Religions because they're obviously working for Satan.
I don't think the situation will ever be resolved.
~ radiographite: art by john shepard
It's disturbing that not only do so many commenters have a negative opinion of slashdot, but moderators think empty criticisms like this are actually worth points. If you have criticism that isn't just glib, go ahead, but otherwise if you don't like it just go the fuck away or keep it to yourself. And please don't encourage this shit by moding it up!
I usually don't swear, and I usually don't like the "if you don't like it, go away" response, but the pretentions of these sorts of posts piss me off. They remind me of high school and the all the idiots who thought they were cool because they insulted everything and everyone.
I'm not a Hindu and some what HinduUnity.org preaches scares the heck out of me. But it shouldn't be forced off its ISP by crybabies
"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one." - A.J. Liebling.
As I understand it, the supreme court has pretty much ruled consistently with this quote. If you own a press, you can say anything that isn't libelous or obscene. If you don't own a press, you are guaranteed nothing. No one is required to help you say what you want. [*]
So, yes, sites like HinduUnity.org should be forced off their ISPs. They have a constitutional right to say what they want, but no one is required to provide them a forum to spread their hatred.
[*] - I believe there is an exception for "common carriers" - basically if you are the only game in town. This would be a huge backbone provider, not a small ISP. It wouldn't apply here.
(Keep in mind, the legal details here are all from memory. If someone has an authoritative link, please post it.)
How can it be racist if both sides are hateful of the other. More like mutual hate.
1. I find it hard to live next to anybody that would publically tell children on freaking SESAME STREET to go and kill me.
2. If I were palistenian, I would refuse to work for jews that looked upon me as inferior and shuffled my family about like cattle.
In other words, I find no one in the middle east has any brains at all.
We all know various histories of the areas. There is no excuse for any of it. Both peoples have a fervent hate that is based on intolerance.
Tolerance is the core of freedom. The middle east will never be free until people learn to accept each other.. NO POLITICAL SOLUTION IS POSSIBLE. I do not mean that palestinians need to go to temple, and vice versa. I mean that people are free to practice their religion next door. Whether you like them or not.
Who wins the spiritual battle? Certainly not Allah or God.
Panaflex
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
They also ran the IQ (Iraq) TLD as seen here. The day of the RAID, the DNS went down on the primary server. It appears to be back up now.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Legally, you are absolutely correct. I'm talking morally, though.
HinduUnity's words condemn them. Muslim groups that want to shut them down, and force them off of their servers provide evidence for their paranoia. It also drew a lot more attention to them.
Leaving them alone would have been best, but these idjits just couldn't _stand_ to have something somewhere that they found offensive. Substitute "porn" or "Howard Stern" or "neo-Nazi" or whatever for "Hindu Unity" and you'll get the idea.
Like I said, people piss and moan when something happens to a site they agree with but shrug their shoulders when it is something they don't agree with. Well I'm pissing and moaning even when I don't agree with it. And I don't think taking a bunch of sites down for a few hours while the FBI collects evidence is nearly as big of a deal as mob action against unpopular opinions. But that's just me.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Since the warrant is sealed, we shouldn't be too quick to jump to the conclusion that the raid is somehow directed at the Muslim clients. If it is, we can be outraged when the truth comes out. If it is not, we're just reinforcing the stereotype that Muslims are somehow always doing things shady enough to warrant 80-some FBI agents at a time. Few people will learn or remember that this was a false alarm.
Consider another possibility: wasn't that recent big kiddie porn case also based in Texas? It's hardly unreasonable to ask if this might be that site reborn. It would certainly explain the agents keeping quiet, especially if they're actively monitoring attempts to connect to that site since they took control.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
In fact, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam ALL have their nastier bits. They all have elements that preach hatred, and they all have elements that preach love and tolerence. None of them claim the moral high ground over the others. However, just about any other religion on earth is more tolerent than the three of these religions.
I thought we'd settled this with Steve Jackson Games.
Do we have any info yet on what this is about?
A few points:
One can enjoy Slashdot and criticize it at the same time.
Less is more; briefness is not always thoughtlessness.
That said, your point is well taken. Positive criticism is usually better than cynicism.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
Right... an organization called "Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights", that in its declaration mentions only Islamic radicals and Jihads. That's about as decieving as the name Holy Land Foundation.
Why don't you 1) examine the facts yourself (from a relatively impartial news organization like NPR), 2) go to the library and find some history books, prefereably by Jewish, Arab, and non-biased historians, and read them all to discern the true facts, and 3) if you reference organizations, reference non-biased, egalitarian ones like Amnesty.
Someone who considers a website like dhimmi.com a good place to start becoming knowledgable in these matters is a far cry from being a "scholar" or Jewish (or any other) history.
_sig_ is away
Much of his writing, including the Crackdown, is available here
Best Slashdot Co
Funny, but Israel IS a terrorist state according to the USA definition:
The DOD definition of terrorism is:
"the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."
http://www.terrorism.com/terrorism/bpart1.html
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
Yes, there are part of the Koran that advocate violence against infidels. But that is not really the message of the Koran any more than the message of the Old Testament is to kill homosexuals or the message of the New Testament is to kill Jews. The fact is all Judeo-Christian texts are self-contradictory and advocate violence in places and pacifism in other places. Extremists of all three faiths have historically used these contradictions to justify their violent, evil behavior. That goes for suicide bombers, crusaders, and Jewish terrorists. If you want to start painting religions by the evil done in their name, Christianity is the place to start looking. More evil has been done in the name of Christianity than any other religion.
My point, however, is not that Christianity is evil. It is that you cannot describe one religion in terms of its extremists and then ignore the actions of extremists in another religion.
Once again.. my facts are moded as flamebait - yet someone calling me a hatemonger is modded up.
Maybe it is because you are a hate monger?
Simply put, Islamic nations don't like us!
Islamic nations do not like us? You mean like our allies Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey? Or do you mean the Albanians we saved from genocide in Kosovo? Simply put, that statement alone shows you are an ignorant hate-monger. Some Islamic nations like us, some do not, and most have mixed feelings about us. Just like Christian nations.
We have not actually done much, anyways, to endear ourselves with the Islamic world. We supported a policy that forced Palestinians from their homes to create an artificial Jewish state. Wonder why they would be pissed off at us? I would if I were them.
You mention bin Laden? He is one lunatic. The world is full of lunatics of all religions, races, and nationalities. You cannot judge a group by its lunatics.
Even if we hated Israel next week, Islamic countries aren't going to be our friends. Part of this hate was started on behalf of Russians (DURING WWII, NOT AFTER) who saw the radicals as an easy way to hate us. Why do you think they own Migs?
Who is "they"?
Oh yeah, I forgot. You think all Muslims are bin Laden clones. That would be a sign of an ignorant hate-monger... the tendency to make sweeping generalizations against a very diverse group of people. Some Muslims have American planes. Some have Russian planes. Some are African-Americans who play basketball in the NBA and are among the most pious people on earth. Some are Arab. Some are southeast Asian. Some are Iranian. Some are Spanish. Etc.
Our cultures don't mix, they won't. They don't like us - the FBI saw a threat that we didn't see so they went in.
Well, so far you have not exactly demonstrated a commanding understanding of Islamic culture. It is therefore hard for me to understand how you jump to the conclusion that our cultures cannot mix.
Searches of News organizations are governed by the Privacy Protection Act of 1980
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
Really. I am not sure what point you think you have.