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Hosting Provider Shut Down By FBI
An Anonymous Reader writes: "An 80-strong U.S. FBI agents raided the Texas-based host of Arabic Web sites, including that of the Arab world's leading independent news channel, prompting charges on Thursday of an 'anti-Muslim witchhunt.'" The Reuters story is at Yahoo! as well. Did you know there was a North Texas Joint Terrorism Task Force, or that it would be shutting down ISPs?
Imagine if an FBI raid on CNN resulting in the broadcaster going off the air for a few hours, or the website being shut down.
I think there's some bias here.
Sure, they probably have a search warrant. Sure, it's probably warranted. But this wouldn't be the first news organization had some information the police wanted or needed, and didn't hand it over. Journalists have these crazy ideas about protecting their sources, and don't always willingly give the police what they want.
But still, if it were a western mainstream media organization the police would be careful not to disrupt operations.
I think there must be some bias here.
Their operations were simply interrupted while the Fed's conducted their search. The sites came back online, fair and square.
...
The search was perfectly legal, and executed per the law.
For crying out loud, glib sensationalism is the last thing slashdot needs more of
Shame!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
While the fourth amendment may not have been violated due to the fact that there was a valid search warrant, this kind of tactic sounds like classic 'silencing' to me. The warrant was sealed, right? Why were the offices raided? The quote in the reuters story from the owner indicated that he seemed to think that his news outlets were being targeted for being related to terrorist groups. There was *no* firm reason for the raid given.
Sounds very totalitarian, doesn't it?
As a Texan, I'm rather upset that we have a 'anti-terrorism force' at all! Hevean help me if I started to express anti-American views on my website!
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush announced today in Washington that there was no longer any need to delve into the Social Security and Medicare surplus. During a press conference at the White House, President Bush said "After carefully studying the behavior of Microsoft, we have determined it to be a terrorist organization. As such, I have instructed the US Office of Foreign Asset Control to seize all assets of Microsoft, and it's founders, Bill Gates, Paul Allen, and Steve Balmer."
The seized assets are expexted to top 150 billion dollars, more than enough to pull the US out from the hole dug by the Bush administrations massive tax cuts.
- James
I have heard of this Arab newstation before. I saw a story about it on american television, I forget which channel.. perhaps BBC-america.
:(
The arab governments have fears that it may bring democracy.. well, not all of them. The newstation is located in Jordan. The prime-minister of Jordan, on this television documentary I watched admitted that the coming of democracy would be good and supported the efforts of this news station.
I can not see how their website was breaking American law, although they may have been breaking laws in other countries.. which shouldn't matter if it is hosted in the USA. The most the Arab countries should be able to do, imho, is to arrest the runners of this newstation.
Of course, the Arab government are afraid to do anything because they would be making martyrs of the procecuted.. I guess that is why they had the USA do the dirty work for them
This is the first direct sign that the USA is turning it's heels on democracy. This is the first time that the USA has tried to dissolve protesters cries of their corrupt, non-democratic government.
If it were a jewish ISP being shut down then this would be all over the news.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
Well, this is an interesting situation:
We have the FBI, who I don't trust.
We have the Arabic news sources, who I also don't trust.
The FBI is denying any kind of bias whatsoever, and that the investigation is totally unrelated to terrorist concerns, anti-palestinian, anti-muslim, or anti anything else.
Still, until we have any better information (which I'm looking forward to) this amounts to a very short period of Government sponsored hacktivism (okay, it's arguable how much hacktivism is involved when the G-men come in and take you offline, but it's the same result as geeks taking down opressors and terrorists sites on the other side of the world.)
Found some news clips.
Anti-terrorism agents raid Texas Internet business
FBI Raids Muslim Businesses, Charity Organizations
FBI Raids Dallas-Area Web Business
I guess it's OK for Muslim complaints to take out a Hindu web site, but it's not OK for federal investigation to shut down some Muslim web sites for a few hours.
BTW, the Hindu web site found hosting again on a server run by a militant Jewish group. The New York Times ran a story on it a few months ago; it's funny what strange bedfellows these sorts of things can make.
I expect this will be modded down to about -200 in a few minutes...interesting how the truth can do that.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
http://www.wfaa.com/wfaa/articledisplay/0,1002,310 13,00.html 1 20,00.html
http://www.wfaa.com/wfaa/articledisplay/0,1002,31
This reminds me so much of the Steve Jackson Games raid of a decade ago. Yes, the warrant was valid. And sealed. The effect was to nearly silence a voice the SS didn't like.
1Alpha7
Live to be Moderated
Bush is so asking for more heat from arab nations. I can not believe the U.S. government is still pulling this crap off. When is this ignorant pitiful administration going to get their act together. When is Dik Cheny going to start taking over the helm form bumbling Bush. Go Colin Powell!!!!!
Just an everyday guy....nothing special
And the search was probably justified. Muslim
terrorist groups use fronts disguised as charities
to move money around, and the Holy Land Foundation
has long been suspected of being a financial front
for Hamas. Since HLF uses the Web to collect
donations by way of credit cards, a search of the
Web hosting company is legit.
Please tell me it's not the same Infocom as this one.
In addition to the FBI, they may well find themselves in a legal battle with Activision, who hold all rights to the Infocom property.
Maybe the DOJ should just accuse MS of being a terrorist organization, bent on taking over the world. Apparently it's easier than taking them to court.
Where's the "-1: Self-Indulgent Posing" option?
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
The site involved was hinduunity.org.
The talk of *BIAS* is ridiculous spincasting by the media and by people that like to constantly complain about persecution. The FBI serves warrants and searches businesses all the time. That's part of their job, like it or not. They don't sit around a water cooler and say "Let's go raid some Moslem businesses this week...that'd be a hoot. We don't like Moslems."
Come on - that's just stupid. They're working an investigation and this is where it brought them. There are NO details in either article...just journalists looking for a story they can blow out of proportion. If it had been a warehouse where large quantities of twine is stored by a couple of surly old kansas natives it wouldn't have even made the news. No FUD value. That kind of thing happens every week.
-Rothfuss
They've shut down Infocom.
You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike. It is dark, if you proceed, you are likely to be eaten by a grue.
xyzzy AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
What kind of shit is this? If you're going to be violating people's property and impeding commerce, you'd better have a damn valid reason that will stand up to public scrutiny. Otherwise, we might as well get rid of trial by jury, the pesky fifth amendment or the obligation to prove one's guilt before issuing a sentence. Yeah, that's the ticket, just like in those documentaries about the Third Reich that must be the talk of the town in Quantico nowadays.
This makes me sick.
Now, I am about as pro-Palestinian as things get. But your rhetoric of racism and Zionism is nauseating. Yes, Israel is a fake country plucked out of Palestinian land. But that was 50 years ago. Israel exists and is populated with people who view themselves as Israeli.
The challenge is to carve up fair and equitable borders between the two countries. This is an extremely difficult challenge. The alternative, however, is mutual destruction. So stop whining about irrelevancies.
This whole middle east situation is so one sided, it really sickens me.
I would rant on and on, but am sure on slashdot, it would fall on death ears...
One need only to look at the reaction of the US to
the NGO resolution, which is NON biding to the UN.
SO they basically punished the UN, by usual us tactics, ie, playign wounded little girl, for a resolution drafted, and rightly so, by an OUTSIDE UN BODY.
HEH, it never ceases to amaze me.
I'm glad that we have police forces to protect us from those vicious electrons, that so frequently get out of control and become destructive.
Bush's education improvements were
Frankly, this doesn't surprise me. George W. Bush and his administration have no problem with you being a different skin color, economic/social class, sexual orientation, etc. as long as you act like them. I'm not saying the Dems are better, but at least there's some indicator from them that you don't have to goosestep to their march exactly the way the Republicans do...
I'm seriously thinking of moving to Canada until the Shrub presidency is over if this type of action is going to become commonplace. I definitely don't want to raise my children (who will be European/Filipino) in an environment that the Bush Clan seems to think ideal if that environment means silencing dissent and allowing banks to close accounts based on religious views...
Yeah, go ahead. Don't feel any need for proof or similarily silly things.
If I had any points, I would have modded you down, that's for sure...
The Hindu Unity website incident is a very different situation. The site had some strong anti-Muslim views, particularly towards Muslims in India. Stuff that could be interpereted as a call for violence against Muslims in India (the current home page has a cartoon of Muslims stabbing to death a Hindu mother). And people complained to the ISP, who told the organization to take their business elsewhere. Here is an article.
The case of the ISP in Texas involves the government shutting down, albeit temporarily and as an incidental consequence of searching for evidence, lots of websites without explanation, only a sealed warrant. This includes one of the most prominent sites news of the middle east that is not controlled by a government of the region.
People get up in arms about controversial websites, like porn sites, hate sites, spammer sites, radical anti-abortion sites, etc, all the time. And sometimes, complaints to the ISP are effective in forcing the site to move to an ISP that is less concerned about complaints from the public. That isn't really news.
The government shutting down 500 mostly arab-related websites without explanation should be considered more newsworthy.
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
Jewish-Muslim relations are strained because for centuries these relations were dictated by Sharia Law, which placed Jews in a submissive position. A good portion of the Muslim community of the US regards Jews as if they (well, we) have cooties, and this won't change any time soon. At least since the US has never been under Sharia, Muslims and Jews can try to build relations that are not based on Sharia. The Mideast, however, was under Sharia law, and there are fatwas that explicitly forbid having equality with Jews in the region. Since Jews won't settle for less than equality nowadays, the Mideast is a hot potato.
Israel/Occupied Territories: Israel shows reckless disregard for human life
ISRAEL AND THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES: UNITED NATIONS CALLS FOR HALT TO TORTURE
CAT: ISRAEL CONTINUES TO DEFY THE COMMITTEE AGAINST TORTURE
ISRAEL: Human Rights Abuses Affecting Trafficked Women in Isreal's Sex Industry
An article on slave trafficking in Israel, from the Jerusalem Post
Google search results for "human rights" + israel" (have reading the 281,000 results)
If zionist moderators once again try to silence me, well, I tried.
I could speculate endlessly about why the US is so intent on supporting Israel, and why the US ignores Israeli human rights abuses that would shame even North Korea. But, I really don't know. I am truly puzzled.
If you have a problem with my views, REPLY, don't moderate!
After reading Robert Anton Wilson's "Illuminatus!" and subsequent sequels, I don't believe in any one world-dominating conspiracy.
And it certainly can't be read stone, because it's enough of a mind-fuck as it is.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I'm not a Hindu and some what HinduUnity.org preaches scares the heck out of me. But it shouldn't be forced off its ISP by crybabies. I just can't stand the hypocritical posturing.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
not state, Federal. it happened in Texas like Waco, but who took the heat for that one? so, yes, the Bush administration is ultimately to blame. this is another, in a long series of blunders that are setting us up for some ugly international repercussions.
For all kinds of great info on this topic, read The Hacker Crackdown, by Bruce Sterling. The entire text is available on the web all sorts of places. Like here, for instance. It's an excellent book.
An 80-strong U.S. FBI agents raided the Texas-based host of Arabic Web sites, including that of the Arab world's leading independent news channel, prompting charges on Thursday of an 'anti-Muslim witchhunt.'
Why is it that every time the government does something bad to (e.g. raids) something that is owned primarily by minorities (e.g. Muslims), the victims cry racism? I'd be ignorant to think that it doesn't happen at all, but this is just plain ridiculous. It seems to me that they are just looking for a scapegoat -- the FBI didn't raid us because of our [p0rn || warez || etc.], they raided us because of our [race || religion || etc.]! Give me a break. IMO people like this need to grow up and realize that not everything bad that happens to them is because of their minority status.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Jews in Muslim lands fared better than those in Europe, until the 1700's, when the tables turned in the other direction. Not that this is all that relevant. Jews were still third-class citizens in the Muslim lands the entire time, and in the year 2001 no Jew will settle for anything short of full equality.
As for my facts, yes, I am a scholar of Mideast history and Jewish history.
Did you ever bother to post this news? This is the first I've heard of it.
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
Yeah I live in Dalls, and I woke up to see that story in the morning... was sorta werid cuz hearing the line "FBI anti-terror squad raids local ISP." Um'yeah.......... in my pre-congnitive morning trace leads me to imagine all sorta of clock'n'dager situations... Some suspected person who's bothers friends is a terrorist named kiezer Souse anonymously posts commands to a legion of suicide Jihad-freaks. Zing... I'm awake now!! Serriously, that sabout how it went down, at least for me.
It isn't a lie if you belive it.
Fat chance. The problem isn't that you have to divide up Israel fairly and equitably - the problem is that there's a couple of major religions born there. The followers of those religions are of the opinion (delusion) that God has promised that land to THEM - so it is therefore their sacred duty to occupy that land and throw out the followers of those Other Religions because they're obviously working for Satan.
I don't think the situation will ever be resolved.
~ radiographite: art by john shepard
It's disturbing that not only do so many commenters have a negative opinion of slashdot, but moderators think empty criticisms like this are actually worth points. If you have criticism that isn't just glib, go ahead, but otherwise if you don't like it just go the fuck away or keep it to yourself. And please don't encourage this shit by moding it up!
I usually don't swear, and I usually don't like the "if you don't like it, go away" response, but the pretentions of these sorts of posts piss me off. They remind me of high school and the all the idiots who thought they were cool because they insulted everything and everyone.
I think the issue of hosts being shut down by the goverment for ANY reason needs is important and newsworthy, ESPECIALLY on those hosts that may be serving content outside the realm of manistream thought.
I'm not a Hindu and some what HinduUnity.org preaches scares the heck out of me. But it shouldn't be forced off its ISP by crybabies
"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one." - A.J. Liebling.
As I understand it, the supreme court has pretty much ruled consistently with this quote. If you own a press, you can say anything that isn't libelous or obscene. If you don't own a press, you are guaranteed nothing. No one is required to help you say what you want. [*]
So, yes, sites like HinduUnity.org should be forced off their ISPs. They have a constitutional right to say what they want, but no one is required to provide them a forum to spread their hatred.
[*] - I believe there is an exception for "common carriers" - basically if you are the only game in town. This would be a huge backbone provider, not a small ISP. It wouldn't apply here.
(Keep in mind, the legal details here are all from memory. If someone has an authoritative link, please post it.)
Of course the US has been on an anti muslim witch hunt ever since the establishment of the DOF
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
LOL@ Parent (mod me up man!)
/. called it. Simply put - in the Islamic religion there a word called jihad... we've all heard that once or twice. It means holy war. If you believe that Jews are the only ones disliked by the Moslems, you are sadly mistaken.
/. knowingly put it up because all the anti-Israel posts. You have rights, so does the government - if they have cause they can get a warrant and get you.
This was the post I was waiting to respond to.
Yes Palistine was a state, yes it was TAKEN from them for the jews. But why was that? Remember what happened to millions of jews before they officially set up the state of israel.
There were many Jews living in Palestine then, what bothers people is the transfer of ownership.
What people don't remember is for many years Isreal/Palestine and many other lands were taken by Moslems (ITS NOT MUSLIM OUTSIDE THE USA!!!) and retaken by Christians and yada yada yada.
The Moslems are not a kind bunch. What you have here isn't a Jewish/Moslem problem - it could potentially be a American problem.
I don't in any way mean to start a 'witch-hunt' as
To all Moslems there is a Islamic world and a non-Islamic world. The goal (in present time, radicals) of every Islamic person is to destroy the 'Evil' non-Islamic world.
Really read up before you echo past postings.
The Jews/Israel has nothing to do with this whole story. USA is the great Satan, not because of religios reasons, mainly because of our lack of morals. We don't enforce morals on a national level. What is going on in the middle east doesn't have much to do with the disdain Moslems hold with the USA - although it is part. [ps: One Moselem goal/belief is to simply take over all the land/riches for their own (although live poor?!) but America is also in that business, or we try to be]
In Howard Bloom's book "The Lucifer Principle"** there is a passage about how Bishop Desmond TuTu (sp) was speaking in front of an Islamic group and the crowd held signs that read: "On Saturday we'll kill the Jews and on Sunday we'll kill the Christians!" (Sat & Sun is the 'sabbath' dates)
Once again, this isn't a post saying... 'let's kill the Moselems!' or even violate their rights. There isn't a YRO story here. This isn't DeCSS site:(which is illegal no matter which way you slice it don't forget)
This is a story which involved computers and servers so
**The Lucifer Principle is a great book that speaks on history and how simple ideas have changed it course. I'd recommed it to anyone who watches politics (and the phuckers in it) closely. There is many stories about Moselems but there is fairly stories about vary many cultures and religions. The Moselems are a good example of how an idea can get so much power, because its a great idea! I applaud the Moselems because the ability to control its followers so well. Get it from the library (sorry no gutenberg texts) or amazon.com - great read - reads like a awsome story. Sagan-esqe writing.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Israel discriminates against minorities. I'm Israeli, but I'm not two-faced enough to say otherwise. Arabs in Israel have fewer opportunities than Jews. But guess what:
Syria, our neighbor to the north, has a law requiring Syrian Jews to stay within their home towns at all times. There are old Jews in Damascus who have not left the city in their entire lives. How's that for discrimination?
Or, let's turn our gaze to Egypt. Nasser, many years ago, confiscated properties from many groups of people, mainly the Jews, Greeks, Copts and Maltese, but also rich Muslim Egyptians. Of those four groups, guess which one is not eligible for restoration of the confiscated properties, nor for compensation. You get one guess.
Let's hop one over, to Lybia, where in his first year in power, Khadaffi confiscated the homes of all the Jews, but forbade them from leaving. Italian arm twisting prevented this spectacle from continuing. They were shipped to Sicily, hence to Israel. Lybia is now Jew-free.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of racism in the Arab World. Israel is angelic in comparison.
dhimmi.com is a good start.
Isn't it ironic? when Muslim countries were open minded they were dominating the world. Of course, then muslim extremists took the power and with a blink of an eye everything changed.
How can it be racist if both sides are hateful of the other. More like mutual hate.
1. I find it hard to live next to anybody that would publically tell children on freaking SESAME STREET to go and kill me.
2. If I were palistenian, I would refuse to work for jews that looked upon me as inferior and shuffled my family about like cattle.
In other words, I find no one in the middle east has any brains at all.
We all know various histories of the areas. There is no excuse for any of it. Both peoples have a fervent hate that is based on intolerance.
Tolerance is the core of freedom. The middle east will never be free until people learn to accept each other.. NO POLITICAL SOLUTION IS POSSIBLE. I do not mean that palestinians need to go to temple, and vice versa. I mean that people are free to practice their religion next door. Whether you like them or not.
Who wins the spiritual battle? Certainly not Allah or God.
Panaflex
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
It has been the war on drugs.
Now it's anti-terrorism.
Day by day we give up our rights. Freedom of speech is okay, except when it may anger someone, or make them sniff something that will kill them. You have protection against unreasonable search and seizure, unless you violate the above restrictions on what you can say, and then you can be violated and robbed if the government wants to.
-twb
They also ran the IQ (Iraq) TLD as seen here. The day of the RAID, the DNS went down on the primary server. It appears to be back up now.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
The iviews site seems like a strange choice, if you dig deeper on the site, it is clearly anti-Israeli. Its there right to be anti-Israeli, but when they let their bias spread to their news, its ceases to be news and becomes merely commentary. Certainly there were better sources that could have been referenced(the person who actually posted it found one). Next time wait for someone who is not biased to submit the story with links to legitimate news sites.
My other sig is extremely clever...
From the Yahoo article ...
We're hoping to find evidence of criminal activity? WTF? Is a mere hope all it takes the FBI to get a freaking search warrant these days to carry things out in boxes?!
Be afraid ... be very afraid.
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
Ok, so the government believes that the Holy Land Foundation has "ties" to an organization which engages in terrorist activities ... not exactly the biggest reason to shut down people ... but they go after the ISP across the street!?!?! Have they lost their mind, or is there some sort of huge thing that all (six or so that I've read) these news stories have left out?
Bizarre. Truly bizarre.
And frightening.
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
How about the Bush family's extensive holdings in IG Farben and the other companies that manufactured weapons such as poison gas for the Third Reich?
http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve3/1033bush.html
Legally, you are absolutely correct. I'm talking morally, though.
HinduUnity's words condemn them. Muslim groups that want to shut them down, and force them off of their servers provide evidence for their paranoia. It also drew a lot more attention to them.
Leaving them alone would have been best, but these idjits just couldn't _stand_ to have something somewhere that they found offensive. Substitute "porn" or "Howard Stern" or "neo-Nazi" or whatever for "Hindu Unity" and you'll get the idea.
Like I said, people piss and moan when something happens to a site they agree with but shrug their shoulders when it is something they don't agree with. Well I'm pissing and moaning even when I don't agree with it. And I don't think taking a bunch of sites down for a few hours while the FBI collects evidence is nearly as big of a deal as mob action against unpopular opinions. But that's just me.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Since the warrant is sealed, we shouldn't be too quick to jump to the conclusion that the raid is somehow directed at the Muslim clients. If it is, we can be outraged when the truth comes out. If it is not, we're just reinforcing the stereotype that Muslims are somehow always doing things shady enough to warrant 80-some FBI agents at a time. Few people will learn or remember that this was a false alarm.
Consider another possibility: wasn't that recent big kiddie porn case also based in Texas? It's hardly unreasonable to ask if this might be that site reborn. It would certainly explain the agents keeping quiet, especially if they're actively monitoring attempts to connect to that site since they took control.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
In fact, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam ALL have their nastier bits. They all have elements that preach hatred, and they all have elements that preach love and tolerence. None of them claim the moral high ground over the others. However, just about any other religion on earth is more tolerent than the three of these religions.
I'm glad to hear the FBI is looking out for us and that they were able to put together a force with enough intimidation to make their point. It might be a little different if people were shot and killed, but there doesn't sound like there is any permanent damage.
It might be interesting for you to mark that the population we call Palestinian has come to israel in the second half of the 19th century, about the same time as the Jews did. Before that, Palestine was a very sparesly populated land. Of little worth, but for its holy sites.
As an Israeli, I find no use for bigotry regarding religion. Israel beleives in freedom of religion (for example, Muslim Sharia' courthouses are equal in their right to the Jewish Rabinnical courthouses in Israel), and therefore if Arabs beleive Jerusalem is holy for them, they are welcome to come there. As a side note, such courtesy was not given by the Jordanians to the Jews who had wanted to come to the Western Wall in the years 1948-1967.
The Palestinians abuse many of the world's news sources to put through a line of extremist propaganda. Of course, its antisemitic nature is by itself wrong; however the main problem is in the violence they incite. I do not consider them much different from the KKK so far as either style or content is concerned. I don't think there should be room for such media in Israel, the US or any other country which understands the danger in propaganda of violence.
Yes, I remember. But if someone destroys your house and kill your family, you don't get to take over your neighbor's house because you always liked his swimming pool. The person who does the damage is the one who has to make restitution.
If the Holocaust were the main issue, a homeland for European Jews would have been carved out of Germany. But that's not what Zionist radicals wanted, and they managed to twist the German crimes against Jews into an excuse for committing crimes against Palestinians.
Isreal - like the U.S. - is stolen land. Like the U.S., it was stolen based on faith (faith in "manifest destiny" in the U.S. case). And like the U.S., it's been around too long for the natives to have a hope in hell of getting their land back.
Your anti-Islamic prejudice and ignorance is nothing short of astounding. I'm tempted to think that you're trolling, but unfortunately there are a large number of people who do hold the beliefs you illustrate.
Followers of Islam are no more a monolithic group than are Christians, Jews, Pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, or Zorasterians. There are wise people, and scary mofos, in each group. Unfortuately, the scary mofos are the ones in power right now in Israel, and they're encouraging the scary mofos amoung the Palestinians.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
(WASHINGTON, DC - 9/6/2001) - American Muslim leaders today said a raid Wednesday on a Texas internet business was part of an "anti-Muslim witch hunt" promoted by the pro-Israel lobby in America. Early yesterday morning, more than 80 agents from the FBI, INS, Customs Service, and other federal agencies raided the offices of Infocom Corporation in Richardson, Texas.
In a statement released at a news conference outside Infocom's headquarters, the Muslim groups said:
"American Muslims view yesterday's action as just one of a long list of attempts by the pro-Israel lobby to intimidate and silence all those who wish to see Palestinian Muslims and Christians free themselves of a brutal Apartheid-like occupation. We believe the genesis of this raid lies not in Washington, but in Tel Aviv.
"Hundreds of innocent American businesses and citizens are being harmed by the government's actions. This incident can only serve to marginalize millions of American Muslims who are committed to the betterment of our diverse society.
"While Muslims understand the FBI's mission to protect American citizens, we are concerned that the civil liberties of Infocom's owners and their many important clients were violated by this unexpected raid. Such an assault leaves the Muslim community and the public at large with many unanswered questions and a lingering sense of violation. We expect the FBI to provide a prompt and full disclosure of the circumstances that led to this raid, the basis of their suspicions and the evidence for which they were searching.
"It is disturbing that American law enforcement agencies are now perceived by American Muslims and Arab-Americans as being tools in the hands of a foreign government. Our elected officials must not allow Israel to import its unjust and discriminatory policies to this country or to mislabel peaceful challenges to those policies as 'support for terrorism.'"
Groups represented at the news conference included American Muslim Council, American Muslims for Jerusalem, American Muslim Alliance, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Society of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Association for Palestine, Muslim Alliance in North America, Muslim Public Affairs Council, and Muslim Student Association of US and Canada.
Infocom hosts web sites for some 500 companies worldwide. For several years, Infocom and other Muslim entities in Texas have been the focus of pressure from pro-Israel groups who object to American Muslim support for Palestinian human and political rights. Authorities did not reveal the motive for the raid except to say it was part of an "ongoing investigation."
One of Infocom's clients whose web site was shut down by the raid is Qatar-based Al-Jazeera satellite television network. Al-Jazeera, a popular and respected Arabic news outlet, has frequently been criticized by Israel for its reporting on that state's brutal policies in the Occupied Territories.
The raid came just weeks after a Wall Street Journal column by Steven Emerson and Daniel Pipes that called for just such an action by the government. They wrote: "...the federal authorities should use the tools it already has for closing down these Web sites and organizations."
Muslims say Emerson and Pipes are infamous pro-Israel "muslim-bashers" who have a long history of defaming their community.
SEE: "Steven Emerson's Crusade," http://www.fair.org/extra/9901/emerson.html and "Who is Daniel Pipes?," http://www.cair-net.org/misc/people/daniel_pipes.h tml
This
I thought we'd settled this with Steve Jackson Games.
Do we have any info yet on what this is about?
....kind of like how American tax dollars find their way to Israel in the form of kewl Apache helicopters used to assassinate Palestinian political leaders?
Well given that we now have more info, is the story less invalid?
That guy's funny, mod him up.
There, that's got to be my moderating contribution for the next 10 years I reckon.
Post any story on slash that has a muslim or arab highlight to it and watch the Jews show their racist side. Every comment will have a comment by a Jew telling us something negative about Arabs or Muslims, even though the story might not have anything to do with Jews or the conflict in the Middle East.
Right now the Jews in the US are strong and they have money but Muslims are emerging fast in the US and are getting strong fast and the Jewry in the US is panicking. This is just one aspect of their panic, use their influence to get as many Muslim orgs as they can banned.
I will tell you what American Jew work as fast as you can because you dont have much time, 10 maybe 15 years, before muslims are as influential or maybe more influential than you. We will see who can save Isreal after that!
I think the FBI if nothing else was probably planting bugs, may be even carnivore type stuff so that they can intercept or ease drop on communications in these Muslim Organizations.
There are at least 20 Arabs/Muslims in Jail right now without being told of their crime. Their American Attorneys can't even see that evidence. They can be held like this because they are not US citizens. In most of the cases the suspects are Green card holders. At least they told Skylarov what crime he was being held on.
The cases are usually thrown out once a judge is allowed to review the evidence against the suspects, but this can take years, average of 4 years per case before the judge gets to see the actual evidence. The evidence usually is an anonymous phone call from an enemy or a former wife or a news paper article from a small town news paper insinuating terrorism charges without any concrete evidence.
The reason the warrant is sealed in this case is probably that the evidence is very weak. If you don't agree there is a bias against Muslims or Arabs then read about these so called "Secret Evidence" cases.
Neither, especially when both of them are the same being/god. Same dad, different sons.
A few points:
One can enjoy Slashdot and criticize it at the same time.
Less is more; briefness is not always thoughtlessness.
That said, your point is well taken. Positive criticism is usually better than cynicism.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
Right... an organization called "Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights", that in its declaration mentions only Islamic radicals and Jihads. That's about as decieving as the name Holy Land Foundation.
Why don't you 1) examine the facts yourself (from a relatively impartial news organization like NPR), 2) go to the library and find some history books, prefereably by Jewish, Arab, and non-biased historians, and read them all to discern the true facts, and 3) if you reference organizations, reference non-biased, egalitarian ones like Amnesty.
Someone who considers a website like dhimmi.com a good place to start becoming knowledgable in these matters is a far cry from being a "scholar" or Jewish (or any other) history.
_sig_ is away
Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
Much of his writing, including the Crackdown, is available here
Best Slashdot Co
How many FBI agents does it take to shut down a web server?
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
Funny, but Israel IS a terrorist state according to the USA definition:
The DOD definition of terrorism is:
"the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."
http://www.terrorism.com/terrorism/bpart1.html
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
I'm not a Jew, so I'll reply to this.
- there are no other replies to this comment, so immediately you are proven a liar (as no jews have replied to it)
- 98% of the comments I have read say nothing negative about Muslims or Arabs. In fact, the general concensus is that the FBI actions seem a tad harsh and possibly unnecessary
- So far the most racism I have seen in response to this story is that inherent in your post. e.g. "American Jew work as fast as you can because you dont have much time" is blatantly a racist threat.
How about you learn how to be tolerant to other people and their religions - after all, isn't Islam meant to be more tolerant of 'single god' religions than any other religion out there?
~Cederic worries about people like khannakhazana
> And it is, eternally a Jewish state, promised by
> G-d to the Jewish people.
Why does God get such a boner for that little plot of land, anyway? There are plenty of farms in this country larger than that. You're talking city-state sized areas of land.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
> the constitution applies to hateful bigotted and closed minded scum as well.
Not necessarily. Evidently kidnapping someone, raping them, and sawing off their head while they're still alive is much worse if you hate them racially than if you do it to steal $5.00 from them.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
But you might get your neighbor's house if he gave aid and comfort to the arsonist who burned down yours. Check out who the Mufti of Jerusalem at the time of the Holocaust was best friends with. Hint, he planned to ride into Jerusalem in Rommel's baggage car.
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch
At the risk of becoming serious flame-bait here, anyone stop to consider, that maybe the Feds are right here, and that the warrant is sealed for a reason, and not some government-coverup conspiracy crap?
Not everything the government does is evil - lets give the facts time to shake out before we castrate the government for this one. That is, if the facts ever come out...
(note - this was origionally posted as a reply to the wrong news item. D'OH!)
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
NPR is nowhere near unbiased.
makes no provision for "sealed warrents" at all. This is blatently unconstitutional (to say nothing of the constitutional problems with the FBI and similar agencies conducting armed raids, that is, THEY HAVE NO JURISDICTION) and will continue until Americans decide to defend the Constitution by whatever means neccisary or until the courts decide to read the 4th (and the rest of the bill of rights) and says "sealed warrents are probably not consititutional, so we shouldn't issue them. Oh, and the FBI really only has jurisdiction on federal property, so maybe we shouldn't have them execute search and seizure on private property."
This republic is slowly turning into a police state. Remember Elian? a blatently unconstitutional kidnapping basically ordered by the EXECUTIVE BRANCH (unconstituional). That's my favorite, that picture of the federal agent is our future. One day you'll be looking down the barrel of that automatic weapon, maybe you'll notice that the agent has his finger in the trigger guard, maybe you'll do some research on what our domestic security forces are packing and realize you're an agent's twitch and one second away from 15 9 or 10mm chunks of lead puncturing you. Maybe you'll realize that you and the general public will never know the names of these federal agents (unless the federal government makes a mistake), so when your rights are violated you can't even bring charges or sue.
Ever hear of Lon Horiuchi? If you or I had killed somebody's defenseless wife with a high-powered rifle regardless of what legitimate targets might be in the vicinity (like I suppose a deer, since that's all civilians are supposed to own rifes for, I guess), we'd be called a murderer, tried, and probably rot in jail. If a government employee does it he's "dedicated and hard-working" and "just following orders."
Ja, ja. We've heard that one before. So much for "never again," eh? Well, the moral of the story is when it gets to the point that you're hiding in the attic, please, when they come for you, TAKE SOME WITH YOU.
AC's cheerfully ignored
Rrrgghh
/. post doesn't do the trick.
You don't get to pick which laws you want! There is ways to get something done. I smoked lots of pot, and the law is still on the books, just because I don't agree with the law doesn't make it go away.
Problem is, the S.Court hasn't repealed the law, and thats the only way it can be declared unconstitutional. A
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Tell me one part of that post that is wrong?!? In retrospect I know that I phrased a few things wrong and I apologize. I have no comments there are lies though.
Yes they all have their nastier parts. The only one that doesn't is Christianity! No where in the actual beliefs does it say to hurt anyone... they just do it (a lot). The pope killed many peoples searching for the grail - crusades - Ireland... all of these things breach the faith. Although, Jesus said it's 'ok' to dislike the rich.
Jews thought that God was with them in battles against other cultures/religions and the Koran specifically points out that non-violence isn't the answer.
I am not a hate monger, and I really resent that. I do know that someone could take my post as saying 'those evil Moselems!' but I post this to urge people to not take it that way.
But! on the other hand Moselems are not the most innocent people that other posters would like you to believe. Yes! People kill each other - they always will. Moselems will kill Jews and the opposite.
It's completely ok for you to kill the other side in battle or over fundamentals. This will happen till we are all dead - there isn't much anyone can do about it.
**PS I CAN'T FIND ANYWHERE THAT MENTIONS JEWS OR MOSELEMS IN THE STORY ** THATS THE PROBLEM WITH THE WHOLE STORY BEING ON SLASHDOT - THIS IS A USA PROBLEM!! PEOPLE TAKE IT AS A JEWISH BACKED SEARCH**
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Do you own any Mutual Funds? You may also own part of IG Farben.
I guess it could be argued that God himself gave the land to the Jews... but we don't need to go there.
But please check your history books! Jews lived in the region before the Islamic religion ever took root!
The greeks ran the land, the romans ran the land - the whole time the Jews where the people who lived there. Most everyone ran the land besides Jews until after WWII.
So how is it the neighbors land? What about the crusades years later after romans and greeks ran the land? What about the ottoman empire? Wasn't there not a time Moselems owned just about everything from Turkey to Spain? Oh, there is mosques in Spain? Who built them??
Thats the problem - people only see back 50 years.
For years each religion (and some non believers) has gone in and taken this and that over! They killed many, many people in doing so. The handing the keys over of Palestine was one of the most non-violent transfers of ownership ever.
Read that book mentioned above, you will learn how things really go down and why. No one is innocent and I don't mean to give that impression at all.
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Look at any world map before 1945, there's a clearly marked country calledcalled 'Palestine'.
Yes, but called it that? When, and why?
Have you read my journal today?
In 1948, the palestinians were made second-class citizens in their homeland of thousands years, in order to recreate the fictional "homeland" of a tribe of eastern europeans
Palestinians were there for thousands of years? Two thouand years ago is was a Jewish country. After that it laid desolate for hundreds of years with minor Jewish settlements. Some Arabs moved in a bit after that and then there were fights between Christians and Arabs. After that, both Jews and Arabs lived there.
As far as calling it a fictional homeland. They definitely lived there. If you argue that, I am not willing to argue the point, as I doubt it would be worth it. It you argue the term "homeland", well, that may run into philosophical and/or religious arguments.
Have you read my journal today?
Palestinian Arabs had lived for over 1400 years in peace with every one in their country, there are peace full people the are defending their lives, land, in war against by Zionist Jews.
You are so funny. You make it sound as if everyone loves the Palestinians. As if all Arabs live together in perfect harmony. Aren't the Palestinians most of Jordan, but have no control. Weren't their rights to own land recinded in Labanon? Aren't they still in refugee camps for over fifty years when they could easily be given housing in neighboring states.
You may disagree with how the Israelis treat the Palestinians, and it is your right to express that opinion. But don't lie about how they are treated by others. And by themselves.
Have you read my journal today?
The hosts being shut down was a side-effect.
The raid wasn't on the sites... anyone can access their site.
The raid was on the computers.
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Once again.. my facts are moded as flamebait - yet someone calling me a hatemonger is modded up.
Nothing in that post isn't true! The whole damn article is a troll.
Somehow it's become a question of the middle east and not even the fact the FBI had a warrant.
I guess special rights should be given to Muslims and everytime one is pulled over for speeding its because we are an ally with Israel.
Simply put, Islamic nations don't like us! There has been attacks on our own soil by {{{RADICALS}}}
Bin Ladin? He's a radical - he's hit US targets overseas. He's got PGP, uses stego, he hates the USA.
I know half of this hate for the USA comes from our friends being Israel - but the rest comes from other areas!! USA sucks, they know it - and they want to take us down. There is a threat.
Even if we hated Israel next week, Islamic countries aren't going to be our friends. Part of this hate was started on behalf of Russians (DURING WWII, NOT AFTER) who saw the radicals as an easy way to hate us. Why do you think they own Migs?
When FDR, Churchhill and Stalin meet in Iran for a chat FDR suggested planting trees would help stop the landscape from eroding. This was taken as an insult!
Our cultures don't mix, they won't. They don't like us - the FBI saw a threat that we didn't see so they went in.
This has 0 to do with religion or the Mid-east.
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Along with agents from the State Department, U.S. Customs and the U.S. Secret Service, the FBI began their search at Infocom Corporation, based in Richardson, Texas earlier this morning.
FBI> find subversive islamic web server
> I don't see any subversive islamic web server here.
taka
my other post is +5 insightful
Well it sure keeps your religion from losing to MTV!, 00.html
In England it is: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001310271
So this works well for both sides. Sure you kill a few followers but it beats having you power base being destroyed by MTV, the Green Party, and the Occult.
Heck you wouldn't want those people to start thinking for themselves. They might eat PORK! Or they might drink beer! Or any of those REALLY important things that are worth killing each other for...
I'm all for morals, and ethics, but when you have to keep killing others in the process it kinda makes the rest of your "values" fscked. Seems the Christers learned that after slaughtering the Native Americans, and it still continues today with a few Doctor Assassins but no where near what goes on there.
I'm not a kettle calling the pot black here. We in the US of A are far from "rational" with how we conduct or lives. We execute people... Thanks to the Internet you can see a lovely video of a real old fashion stoning... Stoning or electric chair the end result is the same that the STATE has killed. The STATE is supposed to be BETTER than it's people. How can the STATE say killing is wrong then do it?!? We take mentally ill people and throw them in prisons for being ill, or people who are addicts. Science shows us that for many it's NOT a matter of will power or moral fiber that makes a person an addict. It's the brain chemistry and social situation of the person, but still we act like people from the Salem witch hunts. Blind to facts and sucking the teat of lies from the press.
Nuff Said.
No the FBI executed a search warrant to make sure there aren't terrorists there that could bomb, nuke, poison, or infect American civilians.
I think you're right on that. However, that shouldn't be sufficient reason to get a search warrant. "...no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Remember that little annoyance for law enforcement known as the 4th Amendment? From what I read, this sounds more like what you described, rather than a search based on probable cause of illegal activity, which is the standard law enforcement is supposed to follow. In addition, it sounds more like a fishing expedition than anything else.
Isn't in great to know anyone can suspend your constitutional rights by calling you a terrorist?
How would you like it if your mother/father/daughter/son got killed by a terrorist?
I'd be damned unhappy. But that is extremely unlikely, while the trampling of our rights by law enforcement--justified by fear-mongering drivel like what you just posted--is an absolute certainty right now. I don't feel like trading my rights away to give you a false sense of security. Because it would be false. If a terrorist wants to find a way to blow up your apartment building, they will, no matter what kind of draconian powers you give the police.
But I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt now.
Why? The federal law enforcement authorities have a history of abusing their authority and trampling our rights that's lasted over a century. Why would you be foolish enough to give them the benifit of the doubt? They've proved repeatedly they don't deserve it. If they want us to operate under the assumption that they're worthy of trust in any way, they've got to prove it. Given their repeated, constant abuses in the past, they've got their work cut out for them at this point.
Posting as AC because posting the truth would cost me karma otherwise. Censorship at work, eh?
Oh, bullshit. Despite having no real arguments in your post, you woulda been at least 3, Insightful and you know it. Do you have any idea how OLD whining about this mythical Slashdot censorship is? Besides, you're supposed to be logged in when you kwhore that way.
There is no sin except stupidity -- Oscar Wilde
Yes, there are part of the Koran that advocate violence against infidels. But that is not really the message of the Koran any more than the message of the Old Testament is to kill homosexuals or the message of the New Testament is to kill Jews. The fact is all Judeo-Christian texts are self-contradictory and advocate violence in places and pacifism in other places. Extremists of all three faiths have historically used these contradictions to justify their violent, evil behavior. That goes for suicide bombers, crusaders, and Jewish terrorists. If you want to start painting religions by the evil done in their name, Christianity is the place to start looking. More evil has been done in the name of Christianity than any other religion.
My point, however, is not that Christianity is evil. It is that you cannot describe one religion in terms of its extremists and then ignore the actions of extremists in another religion.
Ask a Palestinian how it feels. I swear, if the world doesn't go after certain members of the Israeli govt. for war crimes, it'll be all the biggots will need to forever win arguments about Jews having too much power/influence/whatnot. Karma be damned, the fact the the world is letting this crap happen is really getting to me.
itachi
Once again.. my facts are moded as flamebait - yet someone calling me a hatemonger is modded up.
Maybe it is because you are a hate monger?
Simply put, Islamic nations don't like us!
Islamic nations do not like us? You mean like our allies Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey? Or do you mean the Albanians we saved from genocide in Kosovo? Simply put, that statement alone shows you are an ignorant hate-monger. Some Islamic nations like us, some do not, and most have mixed feelings about us. Just like Christian nations.
We have not actually done much, anyways, to endear ourselves with the Islamic world. We supported a policy that forced Palestinians from their homes to create an artificial Jewish state. Wonder why they would be pissed off at us? I would if I were them.
You mention bin Laden? He is one lunatic. The world is full of lunatics of all religions, races, and nationalities. You cannot judge a group by its lunatics.
Even if we hated Israel next week, Islamic countries aren't going to be our friends. Part of this hate was started on behalf of Russians (DURING WWII, NOT AFTER) who saw the radicals as an easy way to hate us. Why do you think they own Migs?
Who is "they"?
Oh yeah, I forgot. You think all Muslims are bin Laden clones. That would be a sign of an ignorant hate-monger... the tendency to make sweeping generalizations against a very diverse group of people. Some Muslims have American planes. Some have Russian planes. Some are African-Americans who play basketball in the NBA and are among the most pious people on earth. Some are Arab. Some are southeast Asian. Some are Iranian. Some are Spanish. Etc.
Our cultures don't mix, they won't. They don't like us - the FBI saw a threat that we didn't see so they went in.
Well, so far you have not exactly demonstrated a commanding understanding of Islamic culture. It is therefore hard for me to understand how you jump to the conclusion that our cultures cannot mix.
The anti-Arab hysteria of our government is best demonstrated by the fact that the FBI confiscated as "evidence" from our offices an Arabic Bible!
Searches of News organizations are governed by the Privacy Protection Act of 1980
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
Fact is, Israel's the closest thing to a fascist regime there is in the western world. During the apartheid era, the South African government imposed the same measures (curfews, shoot-to-maim orders, etc.) on black townships, and there was an entirely justified outcry. The government of Israel is on very shaky ground here.
It's interesting how anyone criticising Israeli politics is automatically an anti-Semite, btw. I suppose it's easier to make a straw man attack on the messenger than deal with the message.
I don't care about it being a largely Muslim site or rather supporting a lot of Muslim web presence. What I care about is that our government can come in on some pretext and copy any of our computer files in toto and even cart of our machines without even specifying what it is about. That is extremenly frightening and quite antithetical to any sort of genuine human freedom. RISE UP!
It is not the Muslims or any other smokescreen that is under attack and oppression here. It is all of us.
This all started when the government decided to take away due process of law when dealing with what they claim to be terrorism cases. What this means is that they can do things without filing any charges or reasons, or showing any evidence. This is calles secret evidence, and has been used to detain nearly 30 Muslims -- all without any evidence, charges or any due process of law. This is unconstitutional, but the joint terrorism task force has given themself "above the law" status, so they act with free raine against the people of the United States.
What you can do?
Call you congressional representative and insist that he/she support HR1266, The Secret Evidence Repeal Act of 2001. This Act is aimed to re-instate due process of law as promised in our US Constitution. We can not allow our constitution to be hyjacked by special interest groups (ADL) who care more about foreign governments that our own people and our own nation.
Go to http://www.politics.yahoo.com and enter your zip code to find your Rep. Also check out CAIR -- they have good info on this issue.
9/12/01
Really?
Lets see
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An israeli to talk of propoganda by violence, should be a well repsected authority on the source! I'm not an anti-semite by the way I'm anti-israel particularily in the face of the current fighting. Rocks and suicide bombers versus F-16's and Tanks, shame on you. Call people things like nazis, KKK, and whatever your little heart of hate desires, but don't expect people to listen when you are no longer oppressed and are instead the oppressor.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Really. I am not sure what point you think you have.