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Attacks On US Continued Reports
I'm still having problems getting news from most normal sites, and we are just barely holding up.
Both world trade towers have collapsed after hijaacked planes crashed into them. New Yorkers are asked to give blood. Pentagon has collapsed after similiar crash. A pilot of another hijaacked plane crashed in a PA field rather then hitting another target in Pitt (unconfirmed). Military is at the highest alert. US Embassy in Oslo evacuated, all israeli embassies evacuated. 2 Flights to LAX lost radio contact. 3 other planes down. London evacuating. Camp David crash is false. Bin Laden threatened about 2 months ago. Many many many dead. Many other cities evacuating and shutting down.
wanna bet we get a suspension of our
"inalienable" rights?????
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
...what today's date is.
911...(9/11/01)
about the ability of our internet infrastructure to handle the demand in cases of crisis?
Amazing magic tricks
http://my.aol.com/news/news_special.psp?newsid=wor ldtrade
http://www.ual.com/Response/PressReleases/0,11641, -1_,00.html
Unite's link. flight 93 is the Pa plane, flight 175 is missing.
I didn't do it, and if I did, you can't prove it. Bart Simpson
We are turning our business into an emergency blood donation center for the red cross. I ask that anyone who has a business that has a large amount of free space to donate it as an emergency center for the ARC to setup at.
If you cannot do that please just go and donate blood. It is desperately needed for the hundreds if not thousands injured today.
Prospecting Stinks. Stop Wasting Time on Cold Calling.
Hmmm... Think about the racial paranoia that is going to stem from this tragic event.
People, unfortunately, look for excuses to target any group, and blame their woes on them. Whether they be economic (as is typical), or, in this case, terrorist. The Jewish people have long been scapegoats for Europe's woes. Even recently, with the Pauline Hanson issue, here in au, in years past, where migrants were blamed for the countries environmental and economic problems.
Now. A group has already been selected, pretty much by default and with no actual basis in fact (yet). People of Middle Eastern background.
Unfortunately, there will be ramifications.
- - -
giftedu
Whomever has done this has awakened the giant. We will not rest until we run them down and expose their evil and folly to the world.
I may be a frequent critic of W., but today, I'm behind him 100% and want the culprits brought to justice and their abbetors, likewise.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
There are 50,000 workers at the WTO. I don't see how 60,000 can die from this unfortunate disaster (include the plaines you add another 150 or so).
This is a national tragedy, I think I speak for all of us when we say that our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
Maybe the next time, people will question, "are having our rights trampled on really giving us security?"
Fight Spammers!
We are all screaming for blood, demanding massive retaliation.
That is exactly what "they" have been doing as their people are killed.
I'm not against retaliation, just before we start down the path, we should realize whose path it is, and where it goes.
May angels greet the dead in paradise and watch over the wounded, their families, and the rest of us.
Matthew,
This is not the time for such insensitive and frankly irresponble posting. It is attitudes like this that cause things to get worse.
If you have personally lost during this then my feelings go out to you....
AC
It's clear, by now, that we're in a state of war. But unlike Perl Harbor, where the enemy was easily identifiable, we now must figure out who's responsible.
/. Little kids on field trips.
I've always felt terrorists were chicken-shits. I've got friends and relatives who work both in the Trade Center, and the Pentagon. Regular family people. Moms with kids in school. Dads who surf about
Terrorist == Cowards
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
I sure hope your ``source'' doesn't suffer for your inability to keep confidential information.
Biological and chemical terrorism is something which is a bit of a boogey-man. We will probably never see a devestating attack using these means because they are simply too costly. However, the threat of a threat could be effective (in other words a claim is more important than the reality).
Now, there are a few things that have occurred to me about these events:
1: The planes must have been flown by the terrorists into the buildings. I have a hard time believing that a pilot of an airliner would be at the helm and be a part of such an attack.
2: This is an attack which would have been very difficult for a small organization to pull off. A large support organization would have been necessary for the necessary piloting expertise and intellegence work. Although this could have been state-sponsored, there is no reason at this time to think that it was.
3: One cannot adequately protect against suicide terrorists. There are too many otherwise inocuous items which can be, under the right circumstances, lethal weapons. The only defense against suicide terrorists is attack the morale of their organizations.
The reason why I suspect that this attack originated in the Middle East is that they are the only region of the world which a) has suffered enough at the hands of Europe and America to create that sort of response and b) has the resources at their disposal for such an attack. (Yes, I have studied my Middle East history, and a should point out that Britain was probably more a part of the problem than the US, but the US has been the present main player in the region).
IMO, we will eventually have to adopt a different policy toward the OPEC nations which aims to foster their economic independence (and live with the higher oil prices) or come to terms with the fact that low oil prices will be bought with human lives. Terrorism is expensive both in lives of supporters and in material resources, and this attack indicates that we as a country (America) have not adequately targeted the morale and/or finances of the terrorist organizations.
Don't get me wrong. I think that terrorism should be fully prosecuted etc. and I think that people who use innocent victims as weapons against a larger enemy deserve no respect, I think that, for the sake of security, we need to create a comprehensive plan which aims not only at attacking the actual terrorists, but also reducing the support they have from economically powerful people by responding to some of the root economical realities which have fostered terrorism in many areas of the world (but especially the Middle East).
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
This is a terrorist attack.
Its main purpose was to strike fear into the hearts of Americans, and to cause our economy to collapse. If everyone is afraid, then the economy WILL collapse.
The emergency workers are busy. The military is obviously busy. Go to work and conduct your business as well as possible. Unless you are working in one of the obviously dangerous areas.
They only beat us if we let our fear win.
I'm not a soldier. I'm not a fireman or paramedic. I'm not a police man. But I'm going to work today, and I'm testing software, and I'm making sure that my little cog in the big machine keeps turning.
Now, we're going to see what kind of a leader dubbya is. I have very grave doubts about his ability to deal with this situation rationally - think martial law - think more raids in Iraq - think more raids in Afghanistan. Think Arab Americans being rounded up (I'm sorry, but you know this will happen). There isn't much we can do about those things other than keep a cool head, and do your job as best as you can.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
excellent idea!!!
that should ensure even more Anti-US ill-feelings are stirred up amongst Arabs, and guarantee more support for Arab extremists leading to ever-increasing circle of terrorist violence -> retaliation -> terrorist violence.. etc.
Dear God/$DEITY, please let the US be measured, rational and enlightened in response to this terrible act of terrorism, for the alternative is surely a road to darker days for this world.
--paulj
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
I'm talking about personal freedoms lockdown -- goodbye encryption, goodbye privacy. This is the administration's opportunity to make some giant strides in the anti-freedom direction they've taken over the past decade.
Re: terrorist retaliation -- point is, they will retaliate, and will up the ante each time. Last time, it was a car bomb under the WTC. This time, the destruction of the WTC. Next, a nuke in the heart of NYC.
It's necessary to think long-term. The terrorist organizations will wait a decade if they need to. Time is immaterial.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Today was the day the camp david peace accord was signed in 1978
The last time something this big happened, someone ended up getting nuked.
bug.gd: error search engine. Humanity working together to solve all errors.
Most buildings arn't developed to withstand aircraft impacts. The WTC was a concrete re-enforced building. The initial impact would have stripped away a good deal of the concrete, and then the fire did the rest.
As an aside, my brain has ceased functioning on any comprehensible emotional level. How do you cope?
end communication
And it's precisely this sort of amazingly arrogant assumption by americans of godlike power over the world that has brought this situation into being. This type of response will inevitably produce an escalation of hostilities, up to and including a global war, and if that happens, *EVERYBODY* loses. Grow up.
It's a terrible atrocity, and those responsible must be brought to justice, but automatically assuming it's those horrible uncivilised middle-eastern types may well be a tragic mistake. Even if it does turn out to be the work of people from that part of the world, casually talking about sterilising entire countries in retaliation is a bigger obscenity that the current day's events.
Anyway, I think you'll find that Palestine has already been invaded and occupied.
This is what frightens me about the US response. On past performance, there's a tendency to keep the great American moron^w public happy by randomly attacking Muslims, or Arabs. The people celebrating are Palestinians, who been on the end of activity that, were it performed by any other nation, would be condemned as warcrimes. Israel routinely kills non-combatant civilians in retaliation for attacks. This is not the way to stop people who already hate your guts, stop hating you! There is NO MILITARY SOLUTION to this.
Those of you (Americans) who try to be thoughtful about this, /PLEASE/ try to avoid knee-jerk "It's the ay-rabs!" jingoism. I realise that revenge must be the first thought in many people's minds. Try to remember, the people who did this WERE ON THE PLANES and they're ALREADY DEAD. Modulo Bin Laden or whoever.
Now, offing him would get my support...
I wonder if this could have been averted if the FBI put their resources into preventing terrorism instead of things like Carnivore, and arresting Russian programmers. Granted Carnivore is supposed to prevent things like these, but terrorists that have the ability to coordinate an attack of this scale won't be using conventional email to communicate anyway. I hope they don't try to use this to outlaw encryption.
No It is funny... very very very funny... we never THINK life is important... of course not important for the Palestinians, nor the Chinese, nor the Japanese, nor the North Korian. They all could be killed and being laught at... "let's go bomb them" right! Yeah... we are justic American!!! But one day you may see your child get shot while laughting!
The only way to prevent attacks like this is to be a nice country, and to make sure that anybody who ever does something like this is shortly in very serious pain. We haven't done much of the first, and should possibly rethink how we deal with the world. The second is absolutely necessary for our continued freedom.
As Teddy Roosevelt said "Walk softly and carry a big stick."
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Quote from the...
"But Professor Paul Rogers, of Bradford University's peace department, warned against assuming Middle East extremists were behind the tragedy.
"We've been here before. With Oklahoma, everybody assumed it was Middle East [terrorists], then it turned out to be home-grown Timothy McVeigh," he said. "Again with the pipe bomb in Atlanta, it
turned out to be domestic."
Today is the anniversary of the Camp David Accords.
Edith Keeler Must Die
it's a good measure of both how dependent we have become upon the internet and how woefully inadequate it still is as a large-scale information outlet for important events [things other than pictures of Movie Star Julia Roberts eating her favorite B&J ice cream].
From The Register:
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
I've been getting emails from a friend at Globix, the giant internet exchange in southern Manhattan. Here is the latest news:
Globix is located on Centre Street south of Canal Street. Businesses south of Canal have been asked to evacuate. The dust from the WTC collapse has forced buildings to shut down their air conditioning. Only a few large computer operations can operate without normal air conditioning, but major exchanges, like the AT&T telephone building and Globix, have backup cooling systems that should hopefully operate in these conditions.
Globix engineers are taking care of major service problems and trying to prevent potential major problems so they can leave as soon as possible.
Globix is hooked into the 3 largest backbones that pass through the region, and at least one must still be operating. Email messages originating from Globix are making their way out, but messages sent to Globix are not coming in.
A telephone call to (212-334-xxxx) from NJ (856-672-xxxx) got through, but no calls to the 718 area code are working. I just received a call from a 212 phone as well.
My friend at Globix was walking to a class at Sun Microsystems at the World Trade Center when the first plane hit. His view of the collision was obscured, and he was not injured. He commented:
> I ran down to the woolworth building and stood
> looking in shock at the North tower, the smoke
> billowing out of it and the thousands of papers
> fluttering down against the blue sky. Suddenly
> I saw something hurtling down the side of the
> building. It was a man, limbs, tie and suitcoat
> flailing. several more followed. I turned and
> slowly walked back towars the sunny, newly
> renovated park in front of city hall.
>
> I heard the second explosion hit, and people
> began screaming and running past me.
>
> As I sit here at my comfortable nest of a
> workspace, my skin crawls, and I feel sick to
> my stomach. I have read about events this bad
> or worse a hundred times in the novels my
> father derisively terms storybooks, but the
> reality is completely incomparable. Perhaps he
> had a point.
>
Another friend of mine was in the 70th floor of the second building to get hit, and he made it out alive. I don't yet have the details on that.
Transportation update (from a Brooklyn friend):
Subway lines are running off and on, and bridges and tunnels are closed to cars. The W line was still bringing people into Manhattan at 9:30, but that has ceased. The N/R is now running above 14th Street. Pedestrian traffic is allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan Bridge. People in suits have been streaming over these bridges into Brooklyn all morning.
Historical Note:
Today, September 11, is the 28th anniversary of the CIA-led coup that overthrew the democratically elected government headed by Allende in Chile. Why is this relevant? I feel an immense amount of anger towards the people who caused this, and I think the people who caused this are the murderers sitting in Washington D.C. who direct U.S. foreign policy. They recklessly inspire anti-U.S. sentiment in every other country in this world. We ruthlessly bombed civilian targets in Yugoslavia (including water purification sites); we starve the children of Iraq; we blockade Cuba for no good reason; we topple democratically elected socialist governments in order to install pro-U.S. dictatorships. My anger does not direct itself solely towards the government officials who have perpetrated these crimes. I am furious at the millions of Americans who voted for George W. Bush. They are responsible for putting into power a person who is walking all over international agreements about global warming and arms control. And anybody who sits by and pays taxes and watches our imperialistic military and State Department do its dirty work has to take some responsibility for these murders. WAKE UP AMERICA: THIS IS YOUR FAULT. No missile defense shield will protect us from the hate that is justifiably spawned worldwide by our pro-corporate foreign policy.
Experience of an anarchist:
When the mail carrier knocked on my door this morning, I was worried that I was about to be taken in by the FBI. If you know what I've been through, you would not think this was a paranoid reaction. There will be a witchhunt following these events, and the U.S. government will probably use it as an excuse to harass activists. Right now the joint anti-terrorism task forces around the country spend most of their money tracking and harassing the anti-corporate activists who have been targeting world financial summits. A good chunk is also spent on the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front, neither of which actually have any members; they are just slogans that autonomous cells apply to their acts of vandalism. Today's events show yet again that money spent on national security does not in fact serve national security, but rather serves the insidious ends of the people controlling this country. Expect there to be calls for more money to fund politically motivated witchhunts against the Left. Expect calls for outlawing consumer use of encryption.
Finally:
Eben Moglen, Columbia University Law Professor and general counsel of the FSF once said about the inevitable rise of encrypted communications:
I don't doubt that there will be downsides. You should accept the truth that harms will be caused, as harms are caused by free speech all the time. But don't let yourself be panicked about this. The world of the twenty-first century will be more free, and will continue to be, as the spooks often say, "a tough neighborhood." Indeed, some bombs will go off; there will be, in Stewart Baker's signature phrase, "some mangled, burnt bodies." You will notice that there are already. But fewer of them will be in Iraqi prisons; none of them will ever again be in a gulag or Lager maintained by a KGB or SS state with a tap on every telephone. And of that you should be very proud, because it is we who will have made it possible.
Traditionally, Americans have been by far the most vicious and ruthless when it comes to defending their own. I know MY history. It might be worthwhile to note that prominent leaders such as Kissinger, to say nothing of those who's futures hang in the balance, favor painting with a borad brush. It's not just the assholes who hijacked the planes, it's not the assholes who told them to, it's not the assholes who trained them, it's not the assholes who provided the financing, it's not just the assholes who provided shelter, it's not just the assholes who turned a blind eye, it's all of them. When it comes to killing, no one knows how to do it better than Americans, this they will learn.
When we find the whos, and we will, anything this big leaves a trail, then the time of retribution will be at hand. Believe me, it would be an ignorant if not suicidal move to stand between US and revenge. Right or wrong as it may be, "If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Notice how quick the Taliban responded, they know what they allowed to happened. They have a dim idea of what the consequences may be. I can only assume that the comparisons to Pearl Harbor, and the eventual fate of Japan translate into their native tongue. It would behoove those who consider themselves enemies of the West to reflect on what happened to the last nation to attack American soil. I, for one, will lose no sleep over any lives lost should we decide to show those who traffic in terror, what it is to fear. They can hijack planes, we can wipe their cities from the face of the earth.
But hey, we're a representative oligarchy, and in this instance, I'm more than happy to let the rich representatives, who've lost a lot, make a strong point by spilling blood in my name.
I remember when I was about 10 being on the observation deck of one of the WTC, and looking down at all the people. I remember how impossibly huge those buildings seem. Now, those are gone. Maybe a little kid not so different from me was experiencing that still familiar sense of awe. It seems unlikely that anyone in such a situation would have been able to escape (thankfully many others have, seemingly most). What was their sin? If they can be killed in the name of a "benevolent" diety, then my "corrupt" government has my blessing to proceed with any retribution that can be described as "indescribable."
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
but definitely not flamebait...did you moderators READ the article(s) the previous poster is talking about? Hello, donations, fundamentalist mideastern terrorist groups? Pull yer heads out, it sounded relevent to me.