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Gamecube Guts
CamelTrader writes: "I was runnin around the net looking for info on dreamcast controller hacks and I found this sweet site that exposes the guts of a gamecube. The pics are here. Take a gander at the rest of the GamesX site if you are into hardware hacking, its very cool."
Long live this spirit of investigation. It is what true hacking (as opposed to cracking) is all about.
Whenever I buy a PC, the first thing I do, before I even plug it in, is take the case apart and have a look inside. Am I the only one who does this ? I doubt it :-)
I saw this had an ATI chip in it, maybe there is some way to hook it to a CRT?
What about a Harddrive like that one webstation that came out from Circuit City a few years ago.
Or maybe a keyboard? I've always hated game controllers, they never fit my hands right.
i was more interested in the "dreamcast controller hacks" aspect of the post.
what exactly is available and what where you looking for?
dreamcast is now only 80 dollars, a keyboard is 20, plus 20 more for a mouse. add 60 for a broadband adapter and you have a pretty well rounded game console. also, in the coming months, dreamcast stuff will start appearing in funcoland`s and the like and stuff will be cheaper.
also, there are tons of cool stuff like nester dc or a vcd player, a divx player, and tons of other stuff including linuxdc
i`m looking for a hack for adding other controllers such as an old nintendo controller to play on dreamcast.
xavii aka bobbefore moding me down, read the post...
The CPU is that smaller IBM chip, everithing else is done by the ATI chip.
Well, we know the CPU is a PowerPC derivative, and we know linux kernel have some support for ATI video cards.
I just want to know what kind of proprietary stuff or changes ATI and IBM introduced to make things harder for linux hackers...
Sony already have an official version of our beloved system for PS2, there's a version of linux for the Dreamcast too...
I hope someone (Nintendo, maybe???) puts togheter a distro for the GameCube too. It's a shame wasting all this hardware just for games.
BTW, the guy who gutted his Cube just lost the warranty...
What ? Me, worry ?
Remember these 'wee' discs are not the same as the 8mm mini CD's you find now and then, they are truly weird custom 5mm DVD's which I doubt you'll ever find on the market unless some factory in China does a major haul. They are also double-layered, none of the DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD+RW drives handle double-layered discs of any kind.
I doubt the GC could play games from CDR, given the fact it doesn't read Redbook audio discs this probably indicates it doesn't read CD's at all.
Also... did you see the custom authentication strips on the innerside of the disc, try and get your DVD-R to burn those!
Hong Kong game store Lik-Sang had pics of a dissasembled gamecube quite a while ago, Sep 12 to be exact.
They have a bunch of other interesting news, such as the portable screen making the gamecube if not exactly portable, at least luggable.
From the article: "Nintendo stuffed everything possible into as few chips as they could"
I'm not an emulator guru, but from what I do know, the fewer chips, the easier a system is to write an emulator for! Of course, if those chips are highly complex (as they probably are), then it's still hard but probably not quite as difficult. Is it possible Nintendo have finally succumbed to emulation and have thought about the possibility of themselves writing a GameCube emulator for PC?
1. If taking the top off will help people put full CDs or DVDs in there, then A LOT of them will do it. Who thought anyone would solder a chip to their console, or send it off to be soldered on by a "piracy professional"? Yet lots of people did with the PlayStation.
2. Someone will find a way to replicate the safety strip, probably with regular PC hardware. If not, someone will make something themselves that can do it, and they will sell the pirated discs directly for a cheap price. Cartridges are difficult to pirate, but CDs and DVDs are still widely-used, easily burnable things. I have confidence that someone will find a way.
3. DVD burners aren't ubiquitous in PCs yet. But then again, CD burners weren't ubiquitous when the PlayStation came out. But they WERE ubiquitous in the last three years of the PlayStation's life, and especially in the last two. Unless the GameCube bombs faster than the Virtual Boy, piracy for it will eventually be widespread.
I don't condone piracy of new games. I am saying all of this just because I think the technical side of piracy is interesting, so please, waste your "privacy is wrong" flames on someone that doesn't agree with you.
... the world shortage of aluminum has finally been explained!
Seriously speaking, it's one big heatsink for a processor known for its low power usage! Gotta be for the flipper chip i guess.
Thomas S. Iversen
Wow, I've finally made the big time after all these years. Just thought I'd say thanks to CamelTrader (whoever you are!) and welcome everyone else to my life's work - GameSX.com.
It's originally named after a retail store I opened some five years ago - Game Station X - but the store is no more.
It is, I believe, the single largest collection of game hardware pinouts and hacks and so on. It wouldn't be there without the help of all the fantastic people who've sent in their mods and info, so thanks to everyone!!
The ISP hosting the site might freak out if it's hit by the normal slashdot traffic. Please try again later if it buckles.
Lawrence.
If you've ever seen the GameCube in person the first thing you probably thought was "Wow it's small!" Well I noticed a few things that contributed to how they made it that size. One was the power source. It's external so it resides in the AC adapter. This thing is fairly large for a console adapter. Here is a picture:Cube IGN.
The second is the processor. IBM has developed a VERY tiny 485Mhz processor for the Cube. It's called the Gekko and is based on PowerPC technology (uses copper wire tech as well). Have a look at it: GameSpot Dossier.
The GameCube hardware is unique. The chip is produced by ATI although it was designed by another company (hence, it is not a Radeon). It also features 1T-SRAM developed by MoSys. It's more efficient although not necessarily all that much better than the RAM used in the Xbox. Unfortunately only 24mb out of 40mb of the RAM in the Cube is 1T-SRAM.
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
look! http://image.lik-sang.com/content/gc/gcopen16_l.jp g bottom mid.
What about how it's suppose to spin "backwards" how do you get around that? manually spin your black CD/DVD when you burn it?
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Oh HEAVENS, not the warranty!
Let's think about this for a second--
It'd be neat if the warranty lasted longer though, it really would. I'd think there should be some pride involved with this kind of thing.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips, and as somebody else has indicated the discs spin in an inverse spiral, that's even if you can get hold of the discs since they're a custom size and spec. This isn't like PSX games, it would be very difficult to burn these things with a off the shelf DVD burner.
As you indicated if a relatively simply operation allows people to play dodgy games then a lot of people will go down that path, Nintendo know this too well, hence all the engineering to make the drive as non-standard as possible, even if this means they have to fab and press non-standard discs at added cost it's still worth it in their eyes.
I doubt taking the top off the box will let you use standard CDR's as stated before, if it doesn't play RedBook audio disc's then I doubt it plays any ISO9660 discs. They might have gone as far as using a different laser wavelength than standard DVD's.
someone already posted this but messed up the URL. Google's text cache is at http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:UPJqyYJnstg:w ww.gamesx.com/misctech/gamecube.htm+&hl=en
They don't. They spin clockwise, same as every other console I have handy to check with. Strangely I don't actually own a CD player...
I dunno who started that little rumor. Or maybe it's only south of the equator they spin the wrong way?
Lawrence.
A month ago a number of sites indicated that when they gutted their GameCubes they found two switches near the position of the region switch that was seen on demonstration machines at shows like SpaceWorld and E3. It was hypothesised that by pushing different switches (I think they were pushed by lugs on the disc door?) you could choose which region of software the machine would accept. It was proved that Japanese software only worked in one of the four possible switch combinations.
A week or so ago it was reported that some of the mainstream game review sites now had final US region discs. Ever since I have been waiting to see if anyone is able to prove or disprove the hypothesis. If it is right, I (and many others) would cancel our orders for an import US machine, and get a Japanese one right now. Ultimately I will be buying US region software, and possibly the odd European title - how I long for the machine to have an easy multi-region hack!
Has anyone heard any further news on this stuff?
$60 USD? That was the original list price for those little babies, but the fact that they're so hard to find and no longer produced, means that they fetch double to triple that amount these days.
I have a Dreamcast which I bought recently precisely because of its current budget price, however, the Broadband Adaptor is the one thing I want, but really don't see the cost justification in purchasing.
i think this is one of the best 'gutting of the $product' i've ever seen. it denotes at least a small amount of research, and the color coding legends were a very cool idea. i'd love to see this kinda well thought out gutting done more often.
good job!
They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips, and as somebody else has indicated the discs spin in an inverse spiral, that's even if you can get hold of the discs since they're a custom size and spec. This isn't like PSX games, it would be very difficult to burn these things with a off the shelf DVD burner.
This is where the "CD burners weren't ubiquitous when the PlayStation was released" part comes in. CD burners have come a long way since the PlayStation came out. In fact, I think they may have been in the $600-$700+ Dark Ages when the PlayStation came out. In the last year and a half of the PlayStation's life (and the PS1 games can still be pirated to your new PS2), CD burners came standard with your new Dell/Compaq/Gateway/Whatever machine, and were at $100-$150 alone. The point? Sure, you can't pirate GameCube games easily NOW, but technology will catch up fast. If DVD burners don't start coming out with dual layer capability, then packages of blank, specially made DVDs, complete with the GameCube security strip already on them, will start appearing on Lik-Sang. The point is, if someone doesn't figure out how to do it immediately, then technology in general will find a way soon, because writable DVD technology is bound to be a quickly growing market, much like writable (and rewritable) CD technology was a quickly growing market until it became completely ubiquitous in new PCs.
As for the whole "inverse spinning" thing, the page makes no mention of that, and someone here has already said it's a rumor. Personally, I'm inclined to think that it IS a rumor, because I've been to that site many times before, and I seriously doubt that they would've noticed that the laser range is larger than the disc, but not notice that the disc is spinning backwards at the same time.
I doubt taking the top off the box will let you use standard CDR's as stated before, if it doesn't play RedBook audio disc's then I doubt it plays any ISO9660 discs. They might have gone as far as using a different laser wavelength than standard DVD's.
I completely agree. Using CDRs is a long shot, but I think someone should still try it out as a test. It would be dumb NOT to try it out.
That said, I got a chance to play both the GameCube and XBox kiosks, and attend the XBox Unleashed event in New York. The GameCube has a ridiculously functional controller and some really fun games-- it was just plain old entertaining to see Luigi yell "Mario!" in full 3D. The XBox games vary wildly. NFL Fever looked absolutely awful-- almost like a Dreamcast game. Project Gotham Racing and Dead or Alive 3 looked absolutely beautiful. The controller also gave me a mixed opinion of the system. It's large for "real-sized" hands but bulky as well.
What seals the deal for me, I think, is the hackability. If it turns out that XBox releases some crap games (which is possible) I still have a nice NVidia motherboard, chipset, and PIII to play with. Plus I can always use the hard drive and I'm sure I can tweak the USB ports to fit "regular" USB. GameCube, I don't think, would ever be that tweakable. Heck, I can probably make the XBox into a Linux server if I felt like it.
I'm going to get an XBox for hackability, and you should, too.
Assumption: you are against Microsoft.
"You could spend the money on upgrading your home PC, which has the capability to do so much more than an XBox."
Microsoft is losing about $100 on every XBox they sell. Thus, you're getting PC hardware at a discount price, WHILE screwing Microsoft if you don't purchase any games (The console industry relies on game sales, not hardware, to drive the market. All royality sales are made off software).
If you really wanted to get Microsoft, you'd purchase the XBox hardware (which has an excellent motherboard) and not buy any games. Fool.
I agree, though, some of the buttons are a bit of a stretch. Rogue Squadron was an exercise in thumb-strengthening. Not much better than the XBox controllers, though (*sigh* -- seems like a better system for "adults").
The old Sega Saturn had a security track similar to these "protection strips" as well. It needed this, as Saturn games were all simple Mode1 CD-ROMs. As the game booted up, the Saturn would check the security track (burned on the very edge of the CD, and impossible to replicate on normal burners).
The hacker's solution to this was to muck with the Saturn BIOS so that it "forgot" to check the security track.
My point is, if the Gamecube's DVD-drive mechanism is a standard component (and doubtless it is, probably the same Matushita mechanism in Panasonic DVD players), HACKERS WILL FIND A WAY, whether it's to sell 1337 Gamecube games for $10 on their website or to backup that import game they paid $75 for.
It doesn't matter if the discs themselves use proprietary format, how they spin, or anything lik e that. Sega's Dreamcast used proprietary GD-ROMs that were uncopyable by normal CD-R drives, but since the drive mechanisms were standard Yamaha 12x CD-ROMs, CD-ROM booting was made possible.
The same thing will happen with the "closed" Gamecube, although undoubtedly the Xbox will be easier to hack.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
MS wants to sell the whole widget. Dell has profits. People buy Dells (generally) to run MS OSes. As a monopoly, MS is able to extract MOST of the profits. If they were a pure monopoly, they would get it all. MS has SOME competition, so they have to leave some profits to the OEMs.
XBox is a multi-billion dollar play to get their systems into homes. They are trying to monopolize the gaming market.
The problem is, without analyzing the console penetration, game developers won't know if Xbox sales are propped up by Slashdotters saying "damn the man" and buying them to play with.
If Xbox looks like it has great penetration (and 1 million "nerds" buying them to play with WILL be significant in the first 3 months), the games will come for the Xbox, and all us Gamecube owners will be left high-and-dry for third party apps.
Oh well, I've been reasonably happy with every Nintendo console because of the first party apps. My favorite was the NES followed by N64 followed by SNES, but I enjoyed them all.
The N64 was a failure, but I loved Mario 64, the first Zelda game, Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, and Hang Time. Those were enough games to keep me interested in the console.
I am getting a Gamecube for Blitz 2002, the new Smash Brothers, the new Hang Time (forget what this one is getting named), plus the new Mario and Zelda games. A new Metroid and Star Wars games are icing on the cake.
I haven't seen anything for Xbox that makes me want one. Halo looks nice, but I'll wait for the full featured PC version. I mean, anything good for the Xbox should be ported to the PC, and the PC will have games that the Xbox won't be good for (RPG/Strategy games that I really love). I have a HTPC for gaming in my system, so the TV isn't even an advantage for hooking up a console.
PS2 is starting to look good with some exclusive games. I may pick it up as a second system. The Gamecube just looks more impressive to me and has the games that I want.
Hackability? Give me a break. I want a gaming machine so my friends (the human kind, not on IRC) can come over and we can play a few games after work. You're right though, MS isn't going to be hurt by losses, not their style. When they have a high stock price, they use it to persue global domination. When they don't have a high enough price, they use cash to do so.
Their shareholders? Management controls enough of the shares to avoid a take-over.
Taking MS on head-on is likely a failure. Your best bet to hurt them is to create an alternative in either core or secondary markets. Buying a Gamecube helps fight MS taking over the console market. Buying Linux servers helps stop NT's spread. Keep MS contained, build alternatives.
The only reason to target MS is if you can find a way to stop them from coercing you. I'm not concerned that they make a lot of money. I'm concerned if they can dictate the Internet on the server side because of a client-side monopoly.
Alex
Then how do you play GC games?
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Yeah, my bad, that is what I meant by the console market. Gaming is the first foot in, I would expect a follow-on product RSN (real soon now) that includes a large hard drive and TV tuner. It would be a UltimateTV/XBox combo with the DVD player. They might even bundle an MP3 player.
Once they have the system, all these other uses require no additional processor, etc. They can embed the equivalent of all these add-ons.
They need a strong gaming market to do this however. Why?
The processor/graphics are best subsidized by the gaming market.
Think about it, if there is a $300 price for the gaming, they can add the functionality for little more. They have the $300 Xbox, and several $400-$750 Xbox+ systems.
MS is always about bundling. The audio/video market is split into a low-end integrated solution and a high-end component solution.
MS will target the low-end (their specialty) with the integrated solution, and Xbox will be the first step. I would expect in 3 years Xbox2 which plays Xbox games as well as some new Xbox2 games. They'll speed up the process of console replacement, but game makers will just set whatever requirement they like. No problem that Xbox5 is out, some games will require Xbox1, Xbox2, Xbox4, etc.
The real trick for them, IMO, is getting the gaming market to make people pay for the processor. Once the processor/graphics is paid for, the extra features are just a matter of software and harddrive space, neither of which bumps up the product much.
Xbox is a console, designed to make money off games.
The long term goal is the monopolization of information into the home. Then they get a cut of EVERYTHING: games, music, video, time-shifting, etc.
As a whole-widget company, it will be increasingly difficult for single solution players to compete. Sure the high-end will never adopt the MS all-in-one solution, but Panasonic, AIWA, and everyone else that plays in the space is in trouble.
Expect Xbox based solutions to come in all forms... including those with a built-in amp to power 4, 5, or 6 speaker configurations. Some will include speakers, some won't. They'll create a family of solutions that share the same core and come in different bundles.
That's scary, if only because of their previous licensing strategy.
Alex
But when you look at Nintendo's track record, that seems to be exactly what they intend to do. I'm quite sure that the N-64 cartridge-based thing was not entirely due to load times. Some of that had to be to discourage piracy.
With the Dreamcast, it was the same thing. They used a larger (AFAIK 1Gb) CD, but enterprising people were able to strip out the essentials in order to fit it onto 700mb. I seem to remember friends talking about not having music on a game because it wouldn't fit or some such comment. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
The other thing about burned games is the tendency to wreck the system (I've heard horrible grinding noises from my friend's coupled with the sound not working on games). For a DC, that amounts to about 100 bucks (Canadian), so it really isn't too bad. For a GC, that's substantially more.
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!