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Gamecube Guts

Posted by michael on from the pg-13 dept.

CamelTrader writes: "I was runnin around the net looking for info on dreamcast controller hacks and I found this sweet site that exposes the guts of a gamecube. The pics are here. Take a gander at the rest of the GamesX site if you are into hardware hacking, its very cool."

138 comments

  1. Microsoft goes down!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Microsoft gets it as soon as Bill Gates opens this email:

    http://timestudies.skylab.org/anthraxletter.png

    Linux!

  2. The only worry is about pirate games... by -douggy · · Score: 1
    See with teh DC it was simple for people to burn their own games, but the GC uses those wee discs that are harder to find. Now the pioneer machine has its own dvd drive but taking the top off a big N GC will allow playing of cdrs one assumes.


    Still as SOON as one come out in the UK i will buy one to sit beside my DC

    1. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Aztech · · Score: 5, Informative

      Remember these 'wee' discs are not the same as the 8mm mini CD's you find now and then, they are truly weird custom 5mm DVD's which I doubt you'll ever find on the market unless some factory in China does a major haul. They are also double-layered, none of the DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD+RW drives handle double-layered discs of any kind.

      I doubt the GC could play games from CDR, given the fact it doesn't read Redbook audio discs this probably indicates it doesn't read CD's at all.

      Also... did you see the custom authentication strips on the innerside of the disc, try and get your DVD-R to burn those!

    2. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by DarkZero · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Three technical things about pirating GameCube games:

      1. If taking the top off will help people put full CDs or DVDs in there, then A LOT of them will do it. Who thought anyone would solder a chip to their console, or send it off to be soldered on by a "piracy professional"? Yet lots of people did with the PlayStation.

      2. Someone will find a way to replicate the safety strip, probably with regular PC hardware. If not, someone will make something themselves that can do it, and they will sell the pirated discs directly for a cheap price. Cartridges are difficult to pirate, but CDs and DVDs are still widely-used, easily burnable things. I have confidence that someone will find a way.

      3. DVD burners aren't ubiquitous in PCs yet. But then again, CD burners weren't ubiquitous when the PlayStation came out. But they WERE ubiquitous in the last three years of the PlayStation's life, and especially in the last two. Unless the GameCube bombs faster than the Virtual Boy, piracy for it will eventually be widespread.

      I don't condone piracy of new games. I am saying all of this just because I think the technical side of piracy is interesting, so please, waste your "privacy is wrong" flames on someone that doesn't agree with you.

    3. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by N. · · Score: 1

      You mean 8cm mini CD's and 5cm DVD's right? Othervise they are really really really small.

    4. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Sc00ter · · Score: 2

      What about how it's suppose to spin "backwards" how do you get around that? manually spin your black CD/DVD when you burn it?

      --
      Free Mac Mini
    5. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Ella+the+Cat · · Score: 1

      Still as SOON as one come out in the UK i will buy one to sit beside my DC



      http://www.projectk.com/ are advertising US import ones in the UK (see back pages of Edge magazine)

    6. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Aztech · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips, and as somebody else has indicated the discs spin in an inverse spiral, that's even if you can get hold of the discs since they're a custom size and spec. This isn't like PSX games, it would be very difficult to burn these things with a off the shelf DVD burner.

      As you indicated if a relatively simply operation allows people to play dodgy games then a lot of people will go down that path, Nintendo know this too well, hence all the engineering to make the drive as non-standard as possible, even if this means they have to fab and press non-standard discs at added cost it's still worth it in their eyes.

      I doubt taking the top off the box will let you use standard CDR's as stated before, if it doesn't play RedBook audio disc's then I doubt it plays any ISO9660 discs. They might have gone as far as using a different laser wavelength than standard DVD's.

    7. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Replace the GC mini DVD drive with a PC DVD drive.

    8. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by DarkZero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips, and as somebody else has indicated the discs spin in an inverse spiral, that's even if you can get hold of the discs since they're a custom size and spec. This isn't like PSX games, it would be very difficult to burn these things with a off the shelf DVD burner.

      This is where the "CD burners weren't ubiquitous when the PlayStation was released" part comes in. CD burners have come a long way since the PlayStation came out. In fact, I think they may have been in the $600-$700+ Dark Ages when the PlayStation came out. In the last year and a half of the PlayStation's life (and the PS1 games can still be pirated to your new PS2), CD burners came standard with your new Dell/Compaq/Gateway/Whatever machine, and were at $100-$150 alone. The point? Sure, you can't pirate GameCube games easily NOW, but technology will catch up fast. If DVD burners don't start coming out with dual layer capability, then packages of blank, specially made DVDs, complete with the GameCube security strip already on them, will start appearing on Lik-Sang. The point is, if someone doesn't figure out how to do it immediately, then technology in general will find a way soon, because writable DVD technology is bound to be a quickly growing market, much like writable (and rewritable) CD technology was a quickly growing market until it became completely ubiquitous in new PCs.

      As for the whole "inverse spinning" thing, the page makes no mention of that, and someone here has already said it's a rumor. Personally, I'm inclined to think that it IS a rumor, because I've been to that site many times before, and I seriously doubt that they would've noticed that the laser range is larger than the disc, but not notice that the disc is spinning backwards at the same time.

      I doubt taking the top off the box will let you use standard CDR's as stated before, if it doesn't play RedBook audio disc's then I doubt it plays any ISO9660 discs. They might have gone as far as using a different laser wavelength than standard DVD's.

      I completely agree. Using CDRs is a long shot, but I think someone should still try it out as a test. It would be dumb NOT to try it out.

    9. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Gizzmonic · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They are not hardware compatible with standard DVD's, first of all none of the DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM drives are able to write two layer discs, then you have the added problem with the protection strips

      The old Sega Saturn had a security track similar to these "protection strips" as well. It needed this, as Saturn games were all simple Mode1 CD-ROMs. As the game booted up, the Saturn would check the security track (burned on the very edge of the CD, and impossible to replicate on normal burners).

      The hacker's solution to this was to muck with the Saturn BIOS so that it "forgot" to check the security track.

      My point is, if the Gamecube's DVD-drive mechanism is a standard component (and doubtless it is, probably the same Matushita mechanism in Panasonic DVD players), HACKERS WILL FIND A WAY, whether it's to sell 1337 Gamecube games for $10 on their website or to backup that import game they paid $75 for.

      It doesn't matter if the discs themselves use proprietary format, how they spin, or anything lik e that. Sega's Dreamcast used proprietary GD-ROMs that were uncopyable by normal CD-R drives, but since the drive mechanisms were standard Yamaha 12x CD-ROMs, CD-ROM booting was made possible.

      The same thing will happen with the "closed" Gamecube, although undoubtedly the Xbox will be easier to hack.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    10. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> HACKERS WILL FIND A WAY, whether it's to sell 1337 Gamecube games for $10 on their website or to backup that import game they paid $75 for.

      Uhm, yeah. This is why hackers hack, for money right?

      Bzzt. If you must have an analogy, ask REI, developers of the first PSX modchip, or maybe the guy who created the PV-Backup homebrew N64 system.

      Why?

      A) Because I want to.
      B) Because I can.
      C) all of the above.

      That's all. Real hackers aren't kiddies trying to make grey money, because their parents cut off their allowances.

    11. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Sc00ter · · Score: 2

      Then how do you play GC games?

      --
      Free Mac Mini
    12. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Yorrike · · Score: 1
      There is an oddity about the GC discs that will be quite a hurdle to overcome.

      Unlike normal optical disc drives, the GC drive does not increase RPMs as the laser moves to the outside of the disc, it stays constant.

      But like you said, there will be a hacker somewhere who gets past this too (no doubt).

      It's going to take a long time and a lot of hacking though. And I doubt that anyone will find a marketable hack (people are less inclined to rip their stuff apart than you may think).

      --

      Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?

    13. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by nil_null · · Score: 1

      If there were an ethernet device I would mention booting an image off of the network (kinda like you can with Dreamcast). Looking at amateur software development methods is, of course, a nice, legitimate way of looking at whole console backup idea. Some of the free software written for the Dreamcast is pretty smooth.

      I expect there to be a backup device for the GameCube just as there have been for most game machines. Take the N64, for example, there was the Z64, and the Doctor V64 which let you play N64 backups off of CDs. I imagine a backup unit for the GameCube to use the serial or parallel ports and probably use CD or DVD media, or maybe it would have hard drive or use a network file system.

      In any case the internals of the GameCube look pretty smooth. The only hardware hack I can think up at this moment would be replace the cooling fan with a nice, loud ~50cfm fan :)

    14. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Aerog · · Score: 2

      But when you look at Nintendo's track record, that seems to be exactly what they intend to do. I'm quite sure that the N-64 cartridge-based thing was not entirely due to load times. Some of that had to be to discourage piracy.

      With the Dreamcast, it was the same thing. They used a larger (AFAIK 1Gb) CD, but enterprising people were able to strip out the essentials in order to fit it onto 700mb. I seem to remember friends talking about not having music on a game because it wouldn't fit or some such comment. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

      The other thing about burned games is the tendency to wreck the system (I've heard horrible grinding noises from my friend's coupled with the sound not working on games). For a DC, that amounts to about 100 bucks (Canadian), so it really isn't too bad. For a GC, that's substantially more.

      --

      - Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
    15. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, just reverse all the data before you write it to disc, doofus.

      At least you would if this rumour were true, which certainly seems unlikely.

    16. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1
      Uhm, yeah. This is why hackers hack, for money right?

      Okay, I take that back. Most hackers aren't out to MAKE money per se, but I don't doubt that they don't want to cough up $50 for each new game.

      The Utopia Bootloader (the original Dreamcast backup solution) was created by a group of hackers that ripped commercial games and posted them on USENET. While I doubt they actually made money, money was definitely a motivating factor. (I don't deny that traditional hackers' desire to control the machine and help the community was in there too.)

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    17. Re:The only worry is about pirate games... by DarkZero · · Score: 1

      People have made entire (and successful) businesses out of having people sending them their PlayStations for them to solder a mod chip to. People are more inclined to either rip their stuff apart or have someone else rip it apart than YOU think.

  3. PLEASE SUPPORT OPEN SOURCE GNUHAIKU!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    Islam is evil
    We have many ways to kill
    The dirty rag heads

  4. FP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    suck my duck!

    1. Re:FP! by Cheesy+Fool · · Score: -1

      Duck and cheese, what a combination.

      --

      Hail to the king, baby!
  5. Glad someone has the guts ! by Anton+Anatopopov · · Score: 3, Informative
    Whenever a new piece of hardware comes out, there is always one pioneering hacker who takes the risk, and opens the damn thing up to find out whats inside.

    Long live this spirit of investigation. It is what true hacking (as opposed to cracking) is all about.

    Whenever I buy a PC, the first thing I do, before I even plug it in, is take the case apart and have a look inside. Am I the only one who does this ? I doubt it :-)

    1. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Whenever I buy a PC, the first thing I do, before I even plug it in, is take the case apart and have a look inside. Am I the only one who does this ? I doubt it :-)"

      Yes, you are. The rest of us build our own. :p

    2. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 1

      Some of us don't even buy PC's, we buy parts and assemble them ourselves. [snicker]

      Seriously, I imagine most people here are familiar with the inner workings of PC's and/or hardware of some variety, and most are likely inquisitive enough to tear apart a PC to see what components were used (for pre-assembled systems, anyways).

      --
      All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
    3. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by bill.sheehan · · Score: 2

      Back in 198... er, back when I was but a mere sprat, I maxxed out my credit card to buy a Compaq Portable from a Sears Computer Center. Two 5.25" floppy drives and a whopping 256K of RAM. "You'll never need more that 256K," the salesman told me. I got it home, booted it up under Compaq's MS-DOS 1.1, and was enthralled. Then I turned it off and figured out how to take it apart. Incredible engineering skull-sweat went into that box! The outer shell was tough, impact-resistant plastic. Inside was a carefully constructed anodized aluminum skeleton, fit together to flex rather than fracture. The thing was so designed that you'd have to basically take a logger's maul to it in order to break it. I was impressed.

      Nowadays, of course, I just build 'em myself. One of these days I'd like to do a proper soup-up job on that Compaq Portable...

      Always yield to the hands-on imperative!

    4. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by Diamon · · Score: 5, Funny
      The outer shell was tough, impact-resistant plastic. Inside was

      Rich Creamy Nougat.
    5. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by RupertJ · · Score: 1

      If you are interested in the components of your PC, then why not build your own rather than paying for a pre-built? Home-brew is the best way to learn hardware skills if you are just starting out. Try to get hold of some cheap (old) hardware and play with that. "...true hacking..." is not just investigating. It is also experimentation and modification, and then sharing that knowledge with the community. Merely opening the case to get the chip model numbers (or HDD make/model etc etc) is not what I would call a hack.

      Have a look at The Jargon Lexicon .

    6. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by archen · · Score: 1

      Think the only reason I open up a case initally is to make sure all the cards are seated correctly. And of course now days some of us want to make sure the CPU fan is seated correctly so the entire thing doesn't burst into flames.

    7. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by autopr0n · · Score: 1

      Whenever I buy a PC, the first thing I do, before I even plug it in, is take the case apart and have a look inside. Am I the only one who does this ? I doubt it :-)

      I've only ever purchaced one PC in my life. The rest of them have been 'cycled through' with continual upgrades. (that is, eventualy you'll upgrade you're PC enough that you'll be able to build another from used parts and a few extras, like cases/power supplies). So, when I get a 'new' There's no real reason to open it back up, since I just closed it :P

      --
      autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    8. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by wfrp01 · · Score: 2, Funny

      The outer shell was tough, impact-resistant plastic. Inside was ... Rich Creamy Nougat.

      Yes, but that leads to the question: What the heck is nougat?! It's the universal candy binder, I know, but WHAT IS IT??? I just ate some, but I don't even know what it is. I should maybe be alarmed, but instead I feel mostly satisfied, but hungry for more...

      If we can't unravel this riddle, then we really don't know what's inside a gamecube, do we?

      --

      --Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
    9. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Rich Creamy Nougat is people!

    10. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by NonSequor · · Score: 2

      Nougat is made from sugar or honey and nuts.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    11. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by Anton+Anatopopov · · Score: 1
      The problem is finding a guide to building a PC that is not riddled with jargon, and easy enough for the layman to understand.

      I lose the plot when they start talking about Bus-mastering IDEs and Front Side AGP ports and the like.

      Its not quite as easy as it looks to build a PC. Its not lego :-)

    12. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by TheRain · · Score: 1

      sometimes pre-assebled pc's are cheaper, and you can read what motherboard and manufacturer of video card etc. is in it... so you know you are not getting cheap crap put together for you. why build it if you can get it cheaper assembled?

      --
      Please help! I'm stuck inside my virtual reality headset!
    13. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rich Creamy Nougat ist Menschenfleisch! Rich Creamy Nougat ist Menschenfleisch! Now we just need a german band to make a song about it.

    14. Re:Glad someone has the guts ! by SilentChris · · Score: 2
      Aw, gee, now you took all the fun out of it. I found it more mysterious to think it was "made out of people".

      It's kind of like that stuff "retsin" which is in cough drops (to shamelessly rip off Seinfeld). What the heck is retsin?

  6. where's my soldering iron... by zenintrude · · Score: 1

    looks like most of my systems... and every system @ the ol' portable atari 2600 site...

    --
    - colin
  7. Hacks maybe? by Beowulf_Boy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I saw this had an ATI chip in it, maybe there is some way to hook it to a CRT?
    What about a Harddrive like that one webstation that came out from Circuit City a few years ago.
    Or maybe a keyboard? I've always hated game controllers, they never fit my hands right.

    1. Re:Hacks maybe? by leapis · · Score: 1

      There is a combination keyboard/controller in the works, per this previous post.

    2. Re:Hacks maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Why was this modded down as a troll!?
      What did I say wrong?
      Danged moderators!

    3. Re:Hacks maybe? by davidsmind · · Score: -1

      The mods are off there rockers right about now, that was not a troll. Anyway I wounder how long it'll be before someone figures out how to but a ramdisk version of linux on one of those memory cards, and boots up mandrake on one of these puppies. Now that i'd like to see.

      --
      I'll Sig you!
    4. Re:Hacks maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess ppl though he was taking the pee... since adding a CRT, Hard-Drive and a keyboard is basically the same thing as a PC.

    5. Re:Hacks maybe? by timbloid · · Score: 3, Informative
      And again, LikSang come up trumps with a GameCube/N64 VGA adaptor, which allows you to:
      • Connect your Game Cube or Nintendo64 console to a VGA monitor for a much brighter display
      • Auto switching between TV game or PC connection (you can connect your PC and GC/N64 at the same time)
      • Automatic PAL/NTSC detection
      • Outputs: Speaker, VGA, AV Multi Out
      • Inputs: VGA, AV Multi, Sound card
    6. Re:Hacks maybe? by Idolatre · · Score: 1

      I bought the PS2 version of this box, the only thing it does is scale 320x240 to 640x480 (by doubling the pixels), so it doesn't really give you a better resolution.

      Is this the same thing for this one, or is it able to
      give you a better resolution (I think the N64/Gamecube support more than 320x240), like the DC vga box?

    7. Re:Hacks maybe? by Surak · · Score: 2

      I saw this had an ATI chip in it, maybe there is some way to hook it to a CRT?

      The chip is only produced by ATI. It was designed by someone else.

      --
      My journal has hot /. gossip.
    8. Re:Hacks maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was designed by ArtX, who are now owned (and have been since just before the first Radeon was released) by ATI

    9. Re:Hacks maybe? by phaze3000 · · Score: 1

      The Gamecube has a DVI port, so you can plug a normal DVI monitor into it.

      --
      Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
    10. Re:Hacks maybe? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

      Line doubled to 640x480? yuck. But given that the converter box works with both N64 and GameCube, better resolution should not neccesarily be expected...
      Aren't these consoles supposed to offer HDTV outs?

    11. Re:Hacks maybe? by Bert64 · · Score: 0

      Aren`t these consoles capable of 640x512 PAL modes (same as tv signals use, plus overscan), which are interlaced and flickery as hell on television sets, if they could de-lace these modes and send them to a VGA monitor the display WOULD look better. It would be good for television pictures too, look closely at most television sets.... they flicker like hell

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    12. Re:Hacks maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe there is some way to hook it to a CRT?

      Um, correct me if I'm wrong...but I believe nearly every television contains a CRT.

      Unless it's an LCD, of course.

    13. Re:Hacks maybe? by CityZen · · Score: 1

      Um, no. It has a proprietary digital video port into which you can plug Nintendo's digital to component video cable. Presumably they should release a digital to RGB video cable as well. Perhaps if someone figures out the spec, they could produce a digital to DVI adapter.

    14. Re:Hacks maybe? by phaze3000 · · Score: 1
      I could be wrong, but I thought there was an official Nintendo DVI cable?

      I'm pretty sure I saw one in a local import shop..

      --
      Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
  8. curious about dreamcast controller hacks by xavii · · Score: 4, Interesting

    i was more interested in the "dreamcast controller hacks" aspect of the post.

    what exactly is available and what where you looking for?

    dreamcast is now only 80 dollars, a keyboard is 20, plus 20 more for a mouse. add 60 for a broadband adapter and you have a pretty well rounded game console. also, in the coming months, dreamcast stuff will start appearing in funcoland`s and the like and stuff will be cheaper.

    also, there are tons of cool stuff like nester dc or a vcd player, a divx player, and tons of other stuff including linuxdc

    i`m looking for a hack for adding other controllers such as an old nintendo controller to play on dreamcast.

    xavii aka bob
    1. Re:curious about dreamcast controller hacks by brunes69 · · Score: 2

      Who the heck modded the parent to Troll? Looks like a good post to me.

    2. Re:curious about dreamcast controller hacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      mod this up

    3. Re:curious about dreamcast controller hacks by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

      Here in Canada the prices (adjusted to US dollars) for those goods are 60$ for DC + controller, 20$ for keyboard, 13$ for mouse, and 140$ for BBA (since you have to find them secand hand on an action site, and most go far ournd that).

      If you're paying 80$ USD for a Dreamcast, you're being ripped off.

      You can also get the Connectix 4-in-1 which lets you use Playstation/Saturn controllers and PS/2 keyboards (DDR pad + Space Channel 5, Saturn Twinsticks, use an IBM keyboard for 'Typing of the Dead' :))... Lots of fun can be had very cheaply with this great console.

      --
      --
      Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
    4. Re:curious about dreamcast controller hacks by Tofuhead · · Score: 2

      Official Sega DC Keyboards are more like $10 brand new, or you can buy a PS2 to DC keyboard/mouse adapter for pennies. But if you can find me some BBAs for $60, please reserve me 20 of them.

      (I'm dead serious. I'd buy 20 at that price, maybe up to 100.)

      < tofuhead >

      --
      It is still the dark of night.
  9. guts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    A real pioneering hacker will freeze the whole system with dry ice, mill 0.1mm, take a picture, mill another 0.1mm, take a picture, etc, until the whole thing has been 3D-scanned in visible light.

  10. Art. by vaxtor · · Score: 1

    I don't know about the rest of you but things like the gamecube are a work of art. Nice Pics...

  11. Total Boycott of m$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    Talk about guts?

    That's right, we're saying: No more payper liesenses. No wab-tv/x-box crud. No MiSsy BugWear servers. No more worth less billybuks (dump 'em), etc....

    Vote with your wallet (NOT your m$'e-wallet' of course, as IT is 'broken', at least as far as you're concerned). Show that you're NOT going to be herded around like so many sheep, at the whim of some felonious softwar gangsters, with the support of 'our' lamo gov't.. mass FraUD IT is.

    NOW is as good a time as any to disempower criminals, & their supporters. God bless/help US all, 'cause we sure do need IT now.

  12. Does it run linux ? by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    before moding me down, read the post...

    The CPU is that smaller IBM chip, everithing else is done by the ATI chip.

    Well, we know the CPU is a PowerPC derivative, and we know linux kernel have some support for ATI video cards.

    I just want to know what kind of proprietary stuff or changes ATI and IBM introduced to make things harder for linux hackers...

    Sony already have an official version of our beloved system for PS2, there's a version of linux for the Dreamcast too...

    I hope someone (Nintendo, maybe???) puts togheter a distro for the GameCube too. It's a shame wasting all this hardware just for games.

    BTW, the guy who gutted his Cube just lost the warranty...

    --
    What ? Me, worry ?
    1. Re:Does it run linux ? by davidsmind · · Score: -1

      As I said in an earlier post the only way this bad boy could run Linux is with some sort of Ramdisk technology (because of the Gamecubes lack of a hard drive), which is entirely possibly. The tricky part would be getting the game cube to recognize the memory cards before the game in the tray.

      --
      I'll Sig you!
    2. Re:Does it run linux ? by brunes69 · · Score: 2

      Only way? My Dreamcast has no hard drive and its been running Linux for awhile, and that sure isn't with any memory card. Ever hard of a bootable CD? Or an NFS root?

    3. Re:Does it run linux ? by davidsmind · · Score: -1

      oh yeah, I guess your right brunes. Sorry if i misled anyone.

      --
      I'll Sig you!
    4. Re:Does it run linux ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      The only reason that the hardware exists is to profit off of the sale of game CDs. It's detrimental to the profitability of Nintendo to waste resources on a half-baked science experiment. The hardware is by no means "wasted" if you can't put together some faggoty little linux box.

    5. Re:Does it run linux ? by racerx509 · · Score: 1

      Nope not yet, but their previous console, the N64 did. Here is link to an article dating back to 1997 about an N64 with a dev of linux.
      http://www.ix.de/ix/artikel/E/1997/04/036/

      --
      13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
  13. Lik-sang had gutted Gamecube long ago by Titney · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hong Kong game store Lik-Sang had pics of a dissasembled gamecube quite a while ago, Sep 12 to be exact.
    They have a bunch of other interesting news, such as the portable screen making the gamecube if not exactly portable, at least luggable.

    1. Re:Lik-sang had gutted Gamecube long ago by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 0

      I agree.
      * 2001-09-12 19:35:16 Nintendo GameCube Disassembled Pics (articles,games) (rejected)

    2. Re:Lik-sang had gutted Gamecube long ago by NEOGEOman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they beat me by a whole two days (which was no small source of irritation) 'cause strangely Hong Kong got their systems before the street date in Japan. I had these pictures up the first day of release in Japan - not because I want to be first, but because I wanted to see what was in it.

      GameSX.com is all about my obsessive need to understand how things work, and modify them to suit my own evil ends. If a few other people like the same stuff, great! That's what the site's there for. =)

      Lawrence.

  14. so, what? it's the company's problem now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when do people expect video game consoles to come with their own linux distro? This is ridiculus, hell half the fun is in figuring out how to do that kind of stuff when the company doesn't support it.

    1. Re:so, what? it's the company's problem now? by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 1

      Ok, I admit that there's some fun in puting a linux distro by ourselves, but... (There's always a "but")

      What to do if the chip manufacturers refuses to release the data sheets for the components ?

      the only way to put a linux distro without these info is by reverse-engineering the console's bios/OS, which may be ilegal in some countries, so we still need some support from nintendo/IBM/ATI...

      --
      What ? Me, worry ?
    2. Re:so, what? it's the company's problem now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you speak in a collective tense? You've done jack shit in OS development or porting. Shut your fat trap, cockbreath.

    3. Re:so, what? it's the company's problem now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did translation and documentation, old fart.

      I also know how to put togheter a distro (Linux from Scratch. ever heard about it, jackass ???)

      If needed, I CAN help in GC distro...

    4. Re:so, what? it's the company's problem now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. You wouldn't know where to start, may it be reverse-engineering as of yet closed documentation chipsets, or getting some sort of storage media loaded onto the unit for I/O! Since you don't strike me as all that intelligent, I'm going to assume that the height of your capabilities would be loading a "distribution" collection into an ISO9660 image file, and making "documentation." You are worthless.

  15. Interesting... by James+Foster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the article: "Nintendo stuffed everything possible into as few chips as they could"

    I'm not an emulator guru, but from what I do know, the fewer chips, the easier a system is to write an emulator for! Of course, if those chips are highly complex (as they probably are), then it's still hard but probably not quite as difficult. Is it possible Nintendo have finally succumbed to emulation and have thought about the possibility of themselves writing a GameCube emulator for PC?

    1. Re:Interesting... by ethan_clark · · Score: 1

      Probably more like the hardware designers knew they only had so much room to work with.

    2. Re:Interesting... by sshore · · Score: 1
      [..] the fewer chips, the easier a system is to write an emulator for!

      This seems like an oversimplification. If the chips integrate the functions of several normally seperate chips, as these surely do, emulation isn't any easier. It may even be harder, in fact, since you can't build on chip emulations that may already be available. With custom ICs like these, getting specs may be more difficult too.

    3. Re:Interesting... by James+Foster · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you're right. Of course it depends on the factors that you mentioned although consoles with several CPUs and other chips are usually well known for being easier to emulate, since all of the chips need to be kept in sync.

  16. In other news ... by zensonic · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... the world shortage of aluminum has finally been explained!

    Seriously speaking, it's one big heatsink for a processor known for its low power usage! Gotta be for the flipper chip i guess.

    --
    Thomas S. Iversen
    1. Re:In other news ... by CodeMonky · · Score: 1

      Better safe than sorry, probably figured that a little extra heat sink doesn't hurt.

      --
      --"Karma is justice without the satisfaction"
  17. Wheres the Troll ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Wheres the Troll ? ... can someone point it out please ....

  18. Hey, wow, I've been slashdotted! by NEOGEOman · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wow, I've finally made the big time after all these years. Just thought I'd say thanks to CamelTrader (whoever you are!) and welcome everyone else to my life's work - GameSX.com.

    It's originally named after a retail store I opened some five years ago - Game Station X - but the store is no more.

    It is, I believe, the single largest collection of game hardware pinouts and hacks and so on. It wouldn't be there without the help of all the fantastic people who've sent in their mods and info, so thanks to everyone!!

    The ISP hosting the site might freak out if it's hit by the normal slashdot traffic. Please try again later if it buckles.

    Lawrence.

    1. Re:Hey, wow, I've been slashdotted! by DarkZero · · Score: 1

      I just wanted to say thanks for making your site, man. I love it. It's very informative and helpful.

  19. How they got it so small. by Angry+Black+Man · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you've ever seen the GameCube in person the first thing you probably thought was "Wow it's small!" Well I noticed a few things that contributed to how they made it that size. One was the power source. It's external so it resides in the AC adapter. This thing is fairly large for a console adapter. Here is a picture:Cube IGN.

    The second is the processor. IBM has developed a VERY tiny 485Mhz processor for the Cube. It's called the Gekko and is based on PowerPC technology (uses copper wire tech as well). Have a look at it: GameSpot Dossier.

    The GameCube hardware is unique. The chip is produced by ATI although it was designed by another company (hence, it is not a Radeon). It also features 1T-SRAM developed by MoSys. It's more efficient although not necessarily all that much better than the RAM used in the Xbox. Unfortunately only 24mb out of 40mb of the RAM in the Cube is 1T-SRAM.

    --
    the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
  20. Mozilla is already on the Gamecube!!! by jazzman45 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    look! http://image.lik-sang.com/content/gc/gcopen16_l.jp g bottom mid.

  21. Slashdot crushed my site! by NEOGEOman · · Score: 1

    That didn't take any time at all. Curse these small-town ISPs and their measly drinking-straw pipes to the net.

    Of course, the game-cube page is the single most graphic-intensive page on the site, so it's probably to be expected.

    And four hours until I can call tech support!

    At any rate, I'm sorry the site snuffed it. Please check again later at your leisure.

    1. Re:Slashdot crushed my site! by cetan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      just set up a geocities account until then :)

      --
      In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
  22. Watch out you by Genghis+Troll · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Some motherfucker on my subnet keeps posting crap to /., and getting the rest of us IP banned. If I find out who it is, I'm gonna anally rape him with a hedgetrimmer!

  23. Gamecube control is a cheap piece o' crap by Cheesy_Poof_Man · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    It seems Nintendo copied from every controller made in the past 5 years(PS2, Dreamcast, N64, Saturn) and combined them...

    To make one ugly, unconfortable monstrosity know as the Gamecube controller. Maybe it works for 6 year old pokefreaks, but my hands can barely manage to hit one button w. out mashing down 3 more.

    1. Re:Gamecube control is a cheap piece o' crap by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 1

      It still beats the X-Box controller, which was seemingly designed for people with HUGE hands. Their Japanese controller is a lot better designed..

      --
      All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
    2. Re:Gamecube control is a cheap piece o' crap by +Majere+ · · Score: 1

      From what I have seen in GamePro and other gaming mags, The Cube has the best controller of the next generation machines.

      - Majere

    3. Re:Gamecube control is a cheap piece o' crap by xmalenko · · Score: 1

      Wait till you hold one. Here's how my experience playing Smash Brothers Melee went at the Nintendo Club thing in Cambridge:

      "Hmm, let's have Pikachu use his lightning attack!"

      PUNCH!

      "Uh, jump out of the way!"

      PUNCH!

      "One more time Pikachu, do anything!"

      PUNCH!

      Needless to say, I got my ass handed to me. The A button on this controler is simply too big. I dont know, maybe kids these days have fingers that bend or extend in different ways than mine, because I know no matter what I did, I was hitting A, unless I held the controler like a lobster would. It's not an improvement over the N64 controler, it's just rearranged. The R and Z button mess dosent help much in the heat of battle either. I hope some 3rd party companies release some controlers that make sense quickly!

    4. Re:Gamecube control is a cheap piece o' crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      N64 has the best controller ever, bar none. It's like three controllers in one!

    5. Re:Gamecube control is a cheap piece o' crap by SilentChris · · Score: 2
      I thought the placement of the D-pad (for quick menu hunting) below the left analog was very intelligent.

      I agree, though, some of the buttons are a bit of a stretch. Rogue Squadron was an exercise in thumb-strengthening. Not much better than the XBox controllers, though (*sigh* -- seems like a better system for "adults").

    6. Re:Gamecube control is a cheap piece o' crap by Master+Of+Ninja · · Score: 0

      It doesn't seem too bad - the dreamcast controller was a bit fiddly to use (for me anyway). Nintendo just need to do something like the SNES controller which was excellent, or the PS controller.

  24. mirror requested by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    someone PLEASE mirror this site!!!!

    1. Re:mirror requested by gabebear · · Score: 2, Informative

      someone already posted this but messed up the URL. Google's text cache is at http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:UPJqyYJnstg:w ww.gamesx.com/misctech/gamecube.htm+&hl=en

  25. Rats...got an error 404. by A_Non_Moose · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Maybe someone was trying to run a beaowolf webserver cluster of game cubes?

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  26. Nintendo's Warranty by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 2
    BTW, the guy who gutted his Cube just lost the warranty...

    Oh HEAVENS, not the warranty!

    Let's think about this for a second--

    • GameCube isn't released in the United States yet, this guys is most likely an import, and can't be serviced in the United States for warranty repair anyways.
    • In the United States anyways, Nintendo's warranty usually lasts a whopping 90 days, after that you're on your own anyways. (Whee, THREE whole months of assurance that the thing doesn't have any defects-- Nintendo sure is confident in their QA department, aren't they? (Of course, I should note, as far as I know every other console maker has a similarly short warranty period, so I guess they're all in the same boat regarding quality assurance)).

    It'd be neat if the warranty lasted longer though, it really would. I'd think there should be some pride involved with this kind of thing.

    --
    All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
    1. Re:Nintendo's Warranty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, none of the consoles I have bought ever failed on me, even my older-than-hell Megadrive still works.

    2. Re:Nintendo's Warranty by radish · · Score: 2


      Is that true? Gee I'm glad I live in the UK. 12 month minimum warranty on everything by law.

      I can't believe they let companies get away with setting their own warranties...

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    3. Re:Nintendo's Warranty by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      The philosophy behind this isn't that they don't expect the console to die shortly after three months. The way of thinking here is that if the console is treated properly, if it doesn't break in three months, it is probably not ever going to break - at least not in any particularly critical way. On the other hand, if the machine is abused, yeah, it might last three months still, after which, the manufacturer can wash its hands of it. No company wants to be responsible for the negligence of their customers.

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    4. Re:Nintendo's Warranty by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 1

      Yep, completly true. Of course, it IS possible that the US GameCube will have a longer warranty than all of the other previous consoles, but I really doubt it. (This 90-day warranty issue goes back as far as the original NES, so I don't see it changing. =))

      About a mandatory warranty-- it sounds nice on one hand, but on the other it doesn't. As long as the consumer is made aware of the short warranty, I figure the "let the buyer beware" position should suffice. (And the warranty, atleast for Nintendo products, is almost always on the box someplace.) It is interesting that it's required in the UK though, I didn't know that. =)

      --
      All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
    5. Re:Nintendo's Warranty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That made sense back when consoles were 'solid state' -- if they survived burn in, they were probably good forever (with cleaning). However, now you have all the mechanics of the DVD/CD drives, and if every CD player I've ever owned is an indication, those tend to wear out in a few years.

      If there is some defect and the drive burns out in 12-18 months, there's going to be lots of pissed Joe Sixpacks out there.

    6. Re:Nintendo's Warranty by NEOGEOman · · Score: 1

      Just FYI, I currently live in Japan so the warranty on the GameCube is as easy as a five minute trip to the nearest Toys R Us. I don't intend to tell them I opened it if they don't ask. And it's not broken yet anyway. =)

      My xbox warranty is going to be a little harder to take advantage of when I import one from the states in a few days. Gotta gut that too.

      As for 12 month warranties, yes that's a fun idea for the consumer, but I would imagine this is a contributing reason to the UK paying so much more for their consoles.

  27. I've got to disagree with that. by NEOGEOman · · Score: 1

    People hated the DC controller. People hate the Xbox controller. Some people hate the snes controller. Personally I found the GameCube controller to be the most comfortable controller since the Super NES, with great tactile response and analogue sticks far easier to manage than any other, IMHO. My hands aren't small either.

    My suggestion is: get used to it. I did, others have, I'm sure it's within you to love that purple thingus like the rest of us do.

    Lawrence.

  28. Re: I've been slashdotted! Use Google for text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:UPJqyYJnstg:w ww.gamesx.com/misctech/gamecube.htm+&hl=en

  29. 8mm? don't you mean cm? by autopr0n · · Score: 1

    8mm cds would be pretty small. (actualy, there wouldn't even be room for a data track).

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  30. Um... by autopr0n · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Geocities sites die quick if they get hit with much bandwidth. Somethingawful.com can take a geocities site down in minutes by linking from the front page. Slashdot would probably kill one in seconds...

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:Um... by cetan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I guess I need to put </joke> at the end of all my comments now...

      :P

      --
      In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
  31. GC discs don't spin backwards. by NEOGEOman · · Score: 3, Funny

    They don't. They spin clockwise, same as every other console I have handy to check with. Strangely I don't actually own a CD player...

    I dunno who started that little rumor. Or maybe it's only south of the equator they spin the wrong way?

    Lawrence.

    1. Re:GC discs don't spin backwards. by 13Echo · · Score: 1

      Are you Lawrence Wright? Your site is sweet and I am surprised that some of these stories weren't mentioned here sooner. It is good to see some more frequent updates lately. I have been checking out your site for years, ever since it was part of the store.

  32. games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    How do you get Pikachu on a bus?

    Pokemon.

    (random joke from the funny girl who does the lead in/out voice overs for star trek tng on sky tv).

  33. Does the Japanese machine play US games? by Taurine · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A month ago a number of sites indicated that when they gutted their GameCubes they found two switches near the position of the region switch that was seen on demonstration machines at shows like SpaceWorld and E3. It was hypothesised that by pushing different switches (I think they were pushed by lugs on the disc door?) you could choose which region of software the machine would accept. It was proved that Japanese software only worked in one of the four possible switch combinations.

    A week or so ago it was reported that some of the mainstream game review sites now had final US region discs. Ever since I have been waiting to see if anyone is able to prove or disprove the hypothesis. If it is right, I (and many others) would cancel our orders for an import US machine, and get a Japanese one right now. Ultimately I will be buying US region software, and possibly the odd European title - how I long for the machine to have an easy multi-region hack!

    Has anyone heard any further news on this stuff?

    1. Re:Does the Japanese machine play US games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      According to many, it's been confirmed that the lid switches have nothing to do with the cube's territory lock-out "feature." IGN said they knew it was possible to mod the japanese system to play north american games, but now that they have NA systems they can't figure it out. Here's a hefty thread from the IGN boards discussing the japanese-gamecube-mod (or lack thereof).

  34. How much? by SimplyCosmic · · Score: 2
    "... add 60 for a broadband adapter ..."

    $60 USD? That was the original list price for those little babies, but the fact that they're so hard to find and no longer produced, means that they fetch double to triple that amount these days.

    I have a Dreamcast which I bought recently precisely because of its current budget price, however, the Broadband Adaptor is the one thing I want, but really don't see the cost justification in purchasing.
  35. Please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    Do not port that monstrosity called Linux to this beautiful creation. That right is reserved for the NetBSD crew, and the Lunix PCP faggots get the leftovers.

  36. gutting of the gamecube - props by daevt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    i think this is one of the best 'gutting of the $product' i've ever seen. it denotes at least a small amount of research, and the color coding legends were a very cool idea. i'd love to see this kinda well thought out gutting done more often.

    good job!

  37. ATI chip huh? by posmon · · Score: 1

    how's quack 3 run then?

    --

    update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315

  38. XBox by SilentChris · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Ida know-- the XBox still looks like a better choice for hacking than this thing. Everything about the GameCube screams "proprietary". Everything about the XBox screams "hack me".

    That said, I got a chance to play both the GameCube and XBox kiosks, and attend the XBox Unleashed event in New York. The GameCube has a ridiculously functional controller and some really fun games-- it was just plain old entertaining to see Luigi yell "Mario!" in full 3D. The XBox games vary wildly. NFL Fever looked absolutely awful-- almost like a Dreamcast game. Project Gotham Racing and Dead or Alive 3 looked absolutely beautiful. The controller also gave me a mixed opinion of the system. It's large for "real-sized" hands but bulky as well.

    What seals the deal for me, I think, is the hackability. If it turns out that XBox releases some crap games (which is possible) I still have a nice NVidia motherboard, chipset, and PIII to play with. Plus I can always use the hard drive and I'm sure I can tweak the USB ports to fit "regular" USB. GameCube, I don't think, would ever be that tweakable. Heck, I can probably make the XBox into a Linux server if I felt like it.

    I'm going to get an XBox for hackability, and you should, too.

    1. Re:XBox by pi+radians · · Score: 1

      Most people buy a gaming console for games. We buy computers and/or computer parts to hack around with.

      Honestly, this is the dumbest reason to buy an XBox.

      --

      sin(6cos(r)+5A)
    2. Re:XBox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except, I don't have $300+ to spend on a game console that I'm a) going to be voiding my warranty on and b) won't have any games I want to play anyway. Pity. I'll pick one up when they're $25 at Funcoland in a few years. :-)

    3. Re:XBox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Sorry dude, the XBox isn't just a nVidia card and a PIII. You can't just install Windows 2000 on it and hack away. Contrary to what many believe it is more than a PC-in-a-box. Just because your PC has a GeForce3 and a 1.0 GHz CPU doesn't mean that it would even come close to the XBox in performance.. The XBox squeezes an incredible amount of performance out of the system components.

      Microsoft also implemented some satanic certification mechanism thingy that prevents retail consoles from playing compiled/developer versions of games. You would require a developer console plus the developer SDK/license (several thousand dollars, and joe shmoe can't go to microsoft and get one with a handful of cash). Then you gotta send your final product to MS for them to embed some digital certificate mojo and burn it onto custom DVDs (binaries cannot be run from the internal HD except on devkits).

      I don't think that the XBox would be any easier to hack than the GameCube. Of course, that won't keep people from trying.

      I'm not saying that the XBox rules all.. Just trying to point out that it is just like the other consoles and not a PC in a perty box. On a side note: It doesn't have as much 'general-purpose' power as the PS2, but the texturing capabilities make up for that.

      I'm not an expert... just reading slashdot, taking a break from programming on an XBox devkit ;-).

  39. I agree. by SaDan · · Score: 1

    The XBox doesn't impress me, and its games do not impress me. "Hackability" is a pretty weak arguement to buy the hardware. You could spend the money on upgrading your home PC, which has the capability to do so much more than an XBox.

    1. Re:I agree. by SilentChris · · Score: 2
      What an ignormaus.

      Assumption: you are against Microsoft.

      "You could spend the money on upgrading your home PC, which has the capability to do so much more than an XBox."

      Microsoft is losing about $100 on every XBox they sell. Thus, you're getting PC hardware at a discount price, WHILE screwing Microsoft if you don't purchase any games (The console industry relies on game sales, not hardware, to drive the market. All royality sales are made off software).

      If you really wanted to get Microsoft, you'd purchase the XBox hardware (which has an excellent motherboard) and not buy any games. Fool.

    2. Re:I agree. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hackability of the XBox is a huge unknown at this point. What is known, per MS: 1) it only boots of DVD-9 media, which nobody has a burner for, and 2) It's got a crypto-authenticated boot sequence.

      Certainly someone will hack it, but it might end up being a hardware hack and more trouble than it's worth for someone who just wants a $300 PC.

    3. Re:I agree. by benwb · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately you will be helping microsoft spread it's name around, which is probably what they really want anyway. Microsoft has enough cash on hand to take the write down in a single quarter for giving every single person in the united states an XBox. (There latest 10-k lists them as having $32 billion)

    4. Re:I agree. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Certainly someone will hack it, but it might end up being a hardware hack and more trouble than it's worth for someone who just wants a $300 PC.

      It's not 'just-a-pc'... A uniform memory architecture does wonders for a game (especially at over 6 GB/s). This eliminates the AGP bottleneck present on common PCs. What would Quake3 look like if a PC could use a crap load of 1024x1024 textures without a hiccup. Just a PC for $300? That's a bargain considering there is a GPU that is one generation ahead of the nVidia Quadro DCC (which is their expensive high-end card). This puppy can probably run quake/quack3 at 250-350 fps (educated estimation).

      Why isn't the GameCube 'just-a-pc'? It has a PowerPC CPU (slightly modified), and a ATI GPU (will one day end up in consumer hardware). Oh I forgot.. GameCube isn't made by Microsoft.

  40. Nice one. by flip-flop · · Score: 1

    This is one of the best articles I have read in a long time. Short, sweet, all on one page, and containing lots of concise, useful info plus some excellent diagrams. Well done guys!

  41. Yeah, there Xbox losses are irrelevant by alexhmit01 · · Score: 2

    MS wants to sell the whole widget. Dell has profits. People buy Dells (generally) to run MS OSes. As a monopoly, MS is able to extract MOST of the profits. If they were a pure monopoly, they would get it all. MS has SOME competition, so they have to leave some profits to the OEMs.

    XBox is a multi-billion dollar play to get their systems into homes. They are trying to monopolize the gaming market.

    The problem is, without analyzing the console penetration, game developers won't know if Xbox sales are propped up by Slashdotters saying "damn the man" and buying them to play with.

    If Xbox looks like it has great penetration (and 1 million "nerds" buying them to play with WILL be significant in the first 3 months), the games will come for the Xbox, and all us Gamecube owners will be left high-and-dry for third party apps.

    Oh well, I've been reasonably happy with every Nintendo console because of the first party apps. My favorite was the NES followed by N64 followed by SNES, but I enjoyed them all.

    The N64 was a failure, but I loved Mario 64, the first Zelda game, Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, and Hang Time. Those were enough games to keep me interested in the console.

    I am getting a Gamecube for Blitz 2002, the new Smash Brothers, the new Hang Time (forget what this one is getting named), plus the new Mario and Zelda games. A new Metroid and Star Wars games are icing on the cake.

    I haven't seen anything for Xbox that makes me want one. Halo looks nice, but I'll wait for the full featured PC version. I mean, anything good for the Xbox should be ported to the PC, and the PC will have games that the Xbox won't be good for (RPG/Strategy games that I really love). I have a HTPC for gaming in my system, so the TV isn't even an advantage for hooking up a console.

    PS2 is starting to look good with some exclusive games. I may pick it up as a second system. The Gamecube just looks more impressive to me and has the games that I want.

    Hackability? Give me a break. I want a gaming machine so my friends (the human kind, not on IRC) can come over and we can play a few games after work. You're right though, MS isn't going to be hurt by losses, not their style. When they have a high stock price, they use it to persue global domination. When they don't have a high enough price, they use cash to do so.

    Their shareholders? Management controls enough of the shares to avoid a take-over.

    Taking MS on head-on is likely a failure. Your best bet to hurt them is to create an alternative in either core or secondary markets. Buying a Gamecube helps fight MS taking over the console market. Buying Linux servers helps stop NT's spread. Keep MS contained, build alternatives.

    The only reason to target MS is if you can find a way to stop them from coercing you. I'm not concerned that they make a lot of money. I'm concerned if they can dictate the Internet on the server side because of a client-side monopoly.

    Alex

    1. Re:Yeah, there Xbox losses are irrelevant by blair1q · · Score: 2

      Nobody's going to "monopolize the gaming market" by putting out Yet Another Game Console.

      What MS really really wants to do is monopolize the set-top computer market. Think of how they could own us if they could replace our tv tuner, video recorder, game console, movie player, music player, and main home computer with one box, and just in time to get the last-mile bandwidth to finally get video-on-demand working to the home.

      --Blair
      "If this is in their 5-year plan, can you imagine their 500-year plan?"

  42. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where is the mozilla reference?

  43. Monopolizing the set-top market by alexhmit01 · · Score: 2

    Yeah, my bad, that is what I meant by the console market. Gaming is the first foot in, I would expect a follow-on product RSN (real soon now) that includes a large hard drive and TV tuner. It would be a UltimateTV/XBox combo with the DVD player. They might even bundle an MP3 player.

    Once they have the system, all these other uses require no additional processor, etc. They can embed the equivalent of all these add-ons.

    They need a strong gaming market to do this however. Why?

    The processor/graphics are best subsidized by the gaming market.

    Think about it, if there is a $300 price for the gaming, they can add the functionality for little more. They have the $300 Xbox, and several $400-$750 Xbox+ systems.

    MS is always about bundling. The audio/video market is split into a low-end integrated solution and a high-end component solution.

    MS will target the low-end (their specialty) with the integrated solution, and Xbox will be the first step. I would expect in 3 years Xbox2 which plays Xbox games as well as some new Xbox2 games. They'll speed up the process of console replacement, but game makers will just set whatever requirement they like. No problem that Xbox5 is out, some games will require Xbox1, Xbox2, Xbox4, etc.

    The real trick for them, IMO, is getting the gaming market to make people pay for the processor. Once the processor/graphics is paid for, the extra features are just a matter of software and harddrive space, neither of which bumps up the product much.

    Xbox is a console, designed to make money off games.

    The long term goal is the monopolization of information into the home. Then they get a cut of EVERYTHING: games, music, video, time-shifting, etc.

    As a whole-widget company, it will be increasingly difficult for single solution players to compete. Sure the high-end will never adopt the MS all-in-one solution, but Panasonic, AIWA, and everyone else that plays in the space is in trouble.

    Expect Xbox based solutions to come in all forms... including those with a built-in amp to power 4, 5, or 6 speaker configurations. Some will include speakers, some won't. They'll create a family of solutions that share the same core and come in different bundles.

    That's scary, if only because of their previous licensing strategy.

    Alex

    1. Re:Monopolizing the set-top market by SilentChris · · Score: 2
      "The long term goal is the monopolization of information into the home. Then they get a cut of EVERYTHING: games, music, video, time-shifting, etc."

      Yes, it's easy to derive this from their "past strategies". Moron.

    2. Re:Monopolizing the set-top market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming the retail version of the Xbox is the same in this particular respect as the devkit (and I have every reason to believe it is) the XBox supports MP3 ripping and playback out-of-the-box. I must admit I haven't tried playing existing MP3s on CDRW (hmm, something to try at work tomorrow) but if you stick an audio CD in the drive, it'll offer to rip it to the internal hard disk.

      Posting anon in case this information is technically under NDA or something ;)

      Oh, and yes, they're so obviously after the set-top box market. There are already alledgedly leaked artists impressions of an XBox-derived STB floating around. Might even have been posted to slashdot.

  44. Question for the webmaster by pythorlh · · Score: 1

    On the second-to-last big picture, the key has an orange colored bit, in the right corner. That orange was left off the key. What is it? (or don't you know?)

    Thanks.

    --
    Do not confuse duty with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different.Duty is a debt you owe to yourself.
  45. Angry Black Man is a TROLL!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Before you moderate this up, PLEASE check Angry Black Man's posting history, READ his posts, and check the links in those posts. You'll see that every one of them is an Adequacy-style troll.

    Proof that Angry Black Man is a troll:

    1. Most of his posts are crafted to look informative but contain gross factual errors that nobody could make inadvertantly.

    2. Angry Black Man posted to the old Trolltalk.

    3. Angry Black Man often goes for obvious karma-whores early in a story, such as copy-pasting kernel release notes.

    4. Angry Black Man often lies about his identity and flat-out makes things up in order to deceive people.

    5. Angry Black Man lies about his race -- he is NOT Black, he is a pasty-white Adequacy editor. Black people are not intelligent enough to use computers, so obviously he is not black.

    Please send his karma to negro hell.