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EFF To Defend Music Swapping Service MusicCity

MattW writes "Yahoo is carrying the CNET story that EFF has come to the defense of MusicCity, which produces peer-to-peer software, but does not run central servers as Napster did. EFF has a whitepaper on the Sony Betamax case, and it discusses the implications of various court decisions during the Napster case and their effect on it as a precedent. A MusicCity lawyer, who was responsible for the successful defense of the Rio, is quoted, astutely observing: 'This case shows more clearly (than Napster) that what the plaintiffs are most concerned about is control of technology. This is all about whether they can leverage copyrights into control over software development.' And that's truly what the RIAA's interest in Napster was about: not money, but control."

117 of 341 comments (clear)

  1. control IS money by lyd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't the crusade to embed handicaps to file sharing of any kind into the OS more than enough evidence that control is the issue?

    Make no mistake, control==money.
    They do not want control, they want money.
    They need control.

    1. Re:control IS money by istartedi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why do they want control? So they can get money. Why do they want money? So they can get control. :)

      In the long run, the people with control will get money. In the long run, the people with money will get control. However, as a famous economist once said "in the long run, we are all dead".

      He who is controlled is a slave, and he who controls is a slavemaster. Those who seek to loose controls say they are fighting slavery. But what is slavery? If a man is hired, and receives nothing for his work, isn't that slavery? Those who seek to "loose controls" would have musicians receive no payment in exchange for recorded music. Isn't that the essence of slavery?

      Currently, copyright is a part of the government. What if it weren't? Well then, people would enter into contracts that are very much like what we have now with copyright. People would have to agree to a license that would be printed on a CD, much as things are with software now.

      It would be laissez-faire with IP law, much as it was with labor law in the 19th century. Now, labor laws were enacted when conditions were shown to be oppressive. The key law is minimum wage. Without minimum wage, it would be possible to create defacto slavery via debt as was often the case in "company towns".

      Now, there are certain people who hate copyright and would like to see IP law abolished, but ask yourselves, what would we get? We would get a totally unregulated market, which might be good or bad. Notice, making music licenses illegal is not the same as abolishing IP law--that would be just another form of government regulation.

      Let's say that we had the totally unregulated market. What would happen to the price of really popular music? What would the license stipulate? Would fair use be part of the contract? Most importantly, would the laissez-faire IP system become as oppressive as a 19th century coal mine? If so, what would be the remedy?

      The obvious remedy is some form of government regulation, which we already have in the form of IP law because the founding fathers forsaw that *creators* would be enslaved without it. So yes, there is a battle for control here, but it's more about who will get the power to regulate. Will the Fashionable Left with its current distaste for IP get the power, or will the Right In A Panic Over New Technology get the power? Will The People even have a clue? Will the careful balance crafted over the years fall to pieces?

      What do I do? I object to proposals from both the Left (mandates for Free Software in government as an example) and the Right (DMCA, SSSCA) and seek to return the system to a fair balance. I guess you could say that I am pasionately moderate when it comes to IP law.... which is a really strange position. It's hard to get people excited about balance but in the end, it's what makes good politics. We have all seen examples of what happens when people go too far to an extreme (Nazis, Communists, and most recently the Taliban). Given that, not only should it not be difficult to get excited about moderation, it should be a patriotic duty for citizens of every country--not just the USA.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    2. Re:control IS money by ryanwright · · Score: 2

      Let's say that we had the totally unregulated market. What would happen to the price of really popular music? What would the license stipulate? Would fair use be part of the contract?

      Quite frankly, without the control issues, recording and distribution costs the industry imposes upon artists, a good artist could give all of his music away and still rake in millions doing live concerts. One could record a hell of a nice album with their personal computer and give it away in MP3 format. With a large enough following at $20 a head for a concert, they could still be filthy rich.

      --
      -Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
    3. Re:control IS money by MaxGrant · · Score: 2
      One could record a hell of a nice album with their personal computer and give it away in MP3 format

      One could, and many are. I'm also selling the CD's (when we finish), no doubts there. But the modern, savvy musician is going to realize that recordings are a loss leader. The real money is going to have to be earned actively via performances, not passively via royalties. Gone will be the days when a band can spend months perfecting their sound in the studio with an Antares Autotune, sequencers, and unlimited punch-ins, and then go out and suck ass live. Oddly enough the same technology that has up until now been allowing sub-par musicians to make flawless music may be their undoing. Each year, home digital recording technology gets cheaper. They're practically giving this stuff away. You can buy a 16-track digital recorder for less than the price of a good guitar these days.

  2. Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by mosch · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Despite what everybody here wants to say, or how people want to spin it, the common way that software such as morpheus is used is ethically, and legally wrong. It's not fair use to give near-perfect recordings of copyrighted material to everyone on the planet. This is not the same as making a tape for your friend.

    That being said, the software is not at fault. The RIAA may argue that it's an enabling the behaviour, but this bad behaviour can, and does occur through other means. There are entire mailing lists devoted to the trading of copyrighted materials via the USPS. This does not mean that the USPS should be outlawed.

    Everybody should write your governmental representatives now, preferably with checks enclosed, to make sure that morpheus and the alike are not wrongly persecuted and prosecuted for behaviour that's beyond the author's control.

    1. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not fair use to give near-perfect recordings of copyrighted material to everyone on the planet. This is not the same as making a tape for your friend.

      Actually, it's exactly the same thing. The only difference is scale, and there is no legislative or judicial pronouncement which says that fair use may not scale.

    2. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Lysander+Luddite · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It's not fair use to give near-perfect recordings of copyrighted material to everyone on the planet. This is not the same as making a tape for your friend."

      I'm ambivalent. Why wouldn't I want to make my recordings as near perfect as possible? That is after all the marketing spin fed to us to justify the move to CD in the past, and now DVD.

      OTOH, yes, sharing it with the world is wrong IMHO. But wehre do we draw the line? Is it a specific number like 2, 50, 100? Is it only a non-profit use, for example trading or a give away? The fact that I can make a perfect duplicate in a small amount of time doesn't change the fact that I DO and should have the right to make copies for non-profit use such as gifts to a friend or backups. But it is a slippery slope.

      I fear that the government (who is supposed to decide these matters) will side with the industry on this one either by makin a law prohibiting copies or washing their hangds of the matter by saying "let the market decide". Of course, either option means the distributors (not the creators or consumers) win.

    3. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by GreenCrackBaby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So at what quality does it go from "it's ok for me to give this copy to you" to "you are a bad person" ???

      --

      "The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
    4. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by mosch · · Score: 2
      I'm not arguing that it's wrong to make your recordings near perfect... actually I don't see the point in making anything but perfect copies (SHN baby, fuck that lossy mp3/ogg shit)

      I'm saying that it's safe to say that if you don't know who you're giving it to, could not identify them, and don't know their name, it's probably not legally justifiable.

      Odd the way common sense is so uncommon these days.

    5. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Lysander+Luddite · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree and for the record, have never "shared" any music with somebody I never personally knew. That is my moral choice. But the issue isn't an all or nothing argument as the distribution industry wants to paint it. The court must decide the line where fair use ends and illegal activity begins.

      Piracy is the word bandied by the distributors, but piracy connotes financial gain and I doubt that many users of P2P services ever saw financial gain. That is an issue that needs to be addressed in any court case.

    6. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by quintesson · · Score: 2, Flamebait

      Making a tape for a friend is not fair use.

    7. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Xibby · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, it's different, sorta...here's how.

      You can burn a perfect copy of a CD for your friend. Your friend can burn a perfect copy for his/her friend. And so on and so forth.

      In this case, there will be some quality loss over time, but it's minimal.

      Or,

      You can make a near perfect digital copy of the file and e-mail it to your friend. Your friend can e-mail and exact copy of that file to a friend, etc etc...

      In this case, quality loss happens once. Every copy of the copy is the same.

      With a tape and consumer level equipment, quality degrades a bit faster, but it's mainly a media issue. And it takes longer to copy a tape.

      As tapes and CD's are physical, there're harder to distribute and easier to control compared to mp3s...

      The differences aren't huge, but they are there and worth nothing. It's the ease and scale of the digital media that has them concerned. My brother and girlfriend could do it without reading documentation. My dad could do it if he sat down and read a manual.

      Blah...I really lost focus with this post so I'm calling it quits.

      --
      I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
    8. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Erasmus+Darwin · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "Piracy is the word bandied by the distributors, but piracy connotes financial gain and I doubt that many users of P2P services ever saw financial gain."

      If there's a sale and I receive 50% off on the purchase of a $200 trenchcoat that I was going to buy anyway, then that's a net financial gain of $100. Everything regarding my possessions is the same as if the sale hadn't existed, except that I've got an extra $100 in my pocket. The gain comes at the willing sacrifice of money on the part of the seller. Of course the seller benefits, hopefully, by selling merchandise to people who wouldn't have bought otherwise, but in the case of someone who was going to make the purchase regardless, it's a win only for the purchaser.

      Similarly, if I was going to buy a CD but instead grab the mp3s off of a P2P service, I receive a net financial gain equivilant to the purchase price of the CD minus the cost of not having the physical CD (which can be close to zero for people who almost exclusively use their legally purchased CDs in mp3 form and/or have a CD burner). Furthermore, this gain comes from the unwilling sacrifice of sales by the copyright holder.

    9. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by krlynch · · Score: 3, Troll

      Everyone knows it's legally wrong, but most people do not believe it is ethically wrong (as proven by the sheer usage volume of services like Napster and MusicCity). Record companies commit original sins by denying musicians fair compensation, price gouging, and denying consumers fair use rights. In committing these wrongs they are forfeiting their ethical rights.

      I don't think it is clear that "most people" think it is ethically acceptable; most people, even in the United States, have never even been to sites like Napster and MusicCity.

      Further, justifying what "most people" may or may not believe to be ethically bankrupt or justified by claiming that record companies are unethical is just silly. Record companies are not "denying musicians fair compensation"; the musicians voluntarily agreed to the compensation they are getting when they signed a contract. If they didn't like the terms of the contract, they weren't required to sign it. Ergo, no denial of compensation. Record companies are also not "price gouging"; you aren't obligated to pay for any album in the first place, so you can't claim that you were obligated to pay too much. If you think an album is too expensive, don't buy it. Ergo, not price gouging. And no record company is denying you your "fair use rights"; since those are protected by law to the extent that they exist, you can sue them if they are denying you those rights. Ergo, no "denial of rights". That they may be trying to have the definition of fair use modified is not relevant to the point you made; you have the same rights to try and convince your legislator to advocate changes in the laws relating to fair use that they do. And you can vote, while the corporation can only lobby; that gives you the real power, not them.

      Look, I don't like the direction that fair use rights and DRM are going any more than you do, but don't try to turn it into a "righteous individual vs. evil corporation" argument; you'll loose, and we'll all look like idiots in the process. Fair use can best be protected by making logical arguments that accept the reality of the situation (i.e. most people use/used Napster to avoid paying for music they liked, that is, to break the law), and pointing out that the huge societal benefits that come from fair use greatly outweigh the few negatives, and that those negatives can in fact be addressed in ways that don't need to reduce the strength of fair use provisions.

    10. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by ncc74656 · · Score: 2
      You can burn a perfect copy of a CD for your friend. Your friend can burn a perfect copy for his/her friend. And so on and so forth.

      In this case, there will be some quality loss over time, but it's minimal.

      Um...if it's a perfect copy, where does the loss occur? If you're using something decent to rip your CDs and it makes a perfect copy every time (no unrecoverable damage to any of the CDs in the chain), then by definition there is no loss and the thousandth CD ought to be identical to the first (assuming that all of the tracks are copied in the original order). If your ripping software isn't so hot, it could introduce errors...but then we're no longer dealing with a perfect copy.
      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    11. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by jiheison · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The differences aren't huge, but they are there and worth nothing. [emphasis added]

      Freudian slip?

    12. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Lysander+Luddite · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Similarly, if I was going to buy a CD but instead grab the mp3s off of a P2P service, I receive a net financial gain equivilant to the purchase price of the CD minus the cost of not having the physical CD"

      True. And this is a good point.

      You are making an assumption here. You are assuming the individual would buy the CD if the P2P service was unavailable. You could just as easily make the assumption that had that service not been available the CD would not be purchased or the CD was indeed purchased at a later time.

      Again, claiming a theoretical loss is disingenuine IMHO. There are simply too many factors and "what ifs".

      In your example of the coat you could also assume the purchaser would buy 2 coats since he had allocated $200 to the purchase of the coat. The buyer could also walk down the street and pay $50 each for 2 jackets. There is no predicting the consumers bahavior and hence no way of determining the seller's loss. The only sure way of determining loss is if the coat was destroyed or stolen (never purchased).

    13. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Erasmus+Darwin · · Score: 2
      "most people do not believe it is ethically wrong (as proven by the sheer usage volume of services like Napster and MusicCity)."

      ...and most people do not believe criminal activity is ethically wrong (as proven by the sheer volume of people in American prisons. Hand-waving ascertations of popularity (which doesn't address whether 50% of people who listen to music utilize Napster) don't prove the point. Futhermore, even though someone does something doesn't mean they don't believe it's not wrong. If I had a quarter for every time I did something that I felt guilty over, I'd have enough money to get myself into even more trouble. :)

      "I have to say that the Metallica-vs-Napster case was the first and only correctly-handled scenario I've seen. Metallica identified actual users of the Napster service who were pirating material and demanded that Napster take steps to assist enforcement of the law by blocking those users."

      Unfortunately, you left out the ending part, where the banned users spent all of 10 minutes reinstalling Napster and then going, "Hello. My name is Mr. errr... Jones! That's it! Mr. Jones. I am a new user who would like to join your service, and I'm certainly not that MetallicaFan231 guy who you banned last week. You need a username? Uh, how about Metall1caFan231?"

      The unfortunate truth is that Metallica's theoretically[*] reasonable effort to go after the directly responsible parties failed due to poor accountability. In light of this, the RIAA has been going after the "common link", as unreasonable as this may be. It sucks and it's frustrating to have certain free speech protections trampled by the RIAA's crusade. On the other hand, I'm sure the RIAA thinks it sucks and it's frustrating to have certain copyright protections trampled by a hydra-like enemy. It's an ugly situation all around.

      [*] I say theoretically as it's my understanding that Metallica may have gone overboard with their criteria and fingered legitimate users because of it. I still agree with fundamental principle of going after the individuals actually providing the songs.

    14. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by mosch · · Score: 3, Informative
      Bruce Springsteen does not allow taping, yet DAT-heads contains numerous requests for his copyrighted material .

      It's clear this list is not the respectful, law-abiding group you make it out to be. The only reason it's still around is it's illegal activities have managed to fly under the radar, for now.

    15. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Grunschev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A little flawed logic and a lot of assumptions.

      First, you didn't "save" any money on the trench coat unless you didn't buy it. If you paid $200, you didn't save any money. If you paid $100 instead, you don't have an "extra" $100 in your pocket. You have $100 less than you started with. If you think you "saved" $100, try this: you can save even more if you don't buy the coat from me, because I'll sell it to you for $300. Bingo! You just "saved" $200!

      There is no financial benefit to mp3 traders, unless they sell the stuff. There is (perhaps) a financial cost to the artists. That is the difference between what they actually sold and what they would have sold if there was no trading. But this is, of course, unmeasurable. It has even been argued that trading may increase sales.

      Case 1: Much like I refuse to buy shoes I cannot try on for size first, I may not want to buy music I can't try out first. If I'm interested in artists that don't get radio play, and none of my friends has a copy, I may want to download an mp3 or two to try first. Without this opportunity, I won't buy. With the opportunity, I may buy. This would be a benefit to the artist.

      Case 2: I really like a band that has a long discography. This band released dozens of singles with b-sides unavailable on the album. The singles are no longer available, unless I get lucky and find it used. If I buy it used, the artist gets: $0. If I download it, the artist gets: $0. Net cost to the artist: $0.

      Case 3a: I'm really cheap and don't want to pay for any music, so I download it all.

      Case 3b: I'm really cheap and don't want to pay for any music. I spend $8 on a used CD, rip the tracks, then sell it back to the store for $5 in trade.

      Well, 3a and 3b aren't that different. I had to upgrade to broadband to get the bandwith to do 3a so my cost is an extra $20 or so a month. If I do 3b instead of 3a I can get several CDs a month for the same cost.

      The RIAA argues that 3a is evil and should be abolished. By logical extension, they might as well argue 3b is just as evil. The net effect to the artist in both cases is the same. So let's make CDs like software and license the use rather than sell them, and prohibit their transfer in the EULA.

      Igor

    16. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Erasmus+Darwin · · Score: 2
      "You are making an assumption here. You are assuming the individual would buy the CD if the P2P service was unavailable."

      Quite true. It is unfair to assume that it's always the case. I can't say that it's true in even 50% of the cases. However, it's true in at least some cases. Thus, there's at least some financial gain, justifying the term "piracy" (which was the original purpose of this mini-discussion).

    17. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by krlynch · · Score: 2

      Except that there's no real competition over what the terms of the contract are

      Which doesn't change the fact that you can choose not to sign that contract if you don't like its terms.

      the terms of the contract are generally misrepresented to the artist and

      Which is why you don't sign the contract if you don't understand each and every word in it; if you don't, go see a lawyer and have it explained to you, section by section. If you don't understand the terms of a contract, or it is vague, or it gives the corporation more than you are willing to give it, and you sign it anyway, that is your problem, and has no bearing on the legality of the contractual obligation. This is just as true for artists as it is for contract programmers, or engineering consultants, or any other employee or corporation bound by a contractual obligation.

      worst of all, the record companies are infamous for not abiding by the terms of these contracts when it suits them

      I'm sorry, but I don't believe that this statement bears any true resemblance to the facts of the industry. If what you MEANT is that the "record companies are infamous for not abiding by what the artist thought were the terms of the contract", then I you might be right, if the majority of artists make the mistake of signing contracts that they don't understand. But again, that is irrelevant. If the contract means something other than what you thought it means, you are screwed, plain and simple, and it isn't because the company is some "evil corporation". The contract says what it says, and if you don't know what it says you shouldn't have signed it.

      Do you know how impossible it is for an artist to get a fair and accurate audit of his business with a company?

      Again, I don't believe this. There are literally tens of thousands of artists under contract worldwide; if the business was as corrupt as you claim, and if the companies were really violating their contractual obligations as frequently as you claim, then those corporations would be sued out of existence in huge class actions by disgruntled artists whose contractual rights were violated, and, they would also be sued out of existence by the US, Canadian, and European tax agencies for tax fraud. But that isn't happening.

      Am I claiming that the corporations are lily white, and never violate a contract clause or lie, cheat, or steal? No, of course not, I'm am more certain that violations occur all the time than of anything else in this post. But it can't be as widespread as you claim, or there would be legal hell to pay; and in our "litigous society" they would pay. If what you meant is that it is "impossible for an artists to get an audit that he thinks is fair and accurate", that is something else entirely, and completely separated from the legal reality of the audits that actually occur.

      This is a good example of what goes around comes around.

      And even if everything you claim is happening actually IS happening, that doesn't make the illegal actions of music copyright infringers any less illegal. Under this type of logic the record companies could just as easily consider the DMCA and SSSCA a good example of "what goes around comes around", and be completely justified in their beliefs, couldn't they?

    18. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Erasmus+Darwin · · Score: 2
      "First, you didn't "save" any money on the trench coat unless you didn't buy it. If you paid $200, you didn't save any money. If you paid $100 instead, you don't have an "extra" $100 in your pocket. You have $100 less than you started with."

      I was using an actual real-world example (with the prices rounded off slightly). I went to the Macy's and found a trenchcoat I liked. I looked at the $200 price tag, decided it was acceptable, and took it to the cash register intent on purchasing it. Once there, I found out it was on sale (as they were having a big 40-50% off clearance thing) when it rang up as $100 less than I was expecting. As my intended purchase came out $100 below the budgeted amount, I saved $100. If it had came out to $1 (for example, if I was their one hundredth customer of the day or something silly), I would have saved $199. If there was no discount, I would have saved $0. Up until discovering the sale, I had already allocated the money to the purchase of the trenchcoat, so it was a financial benefit in my favor.

      "It has even been argued that trading may increase sales."

      There's a big gray area here. There's pretty much no question that promoting pretty much any item for sale generally increases sales. It's also accepted (as evidenced by who pays who with radio) that giving away promotional pieces of your product in some form helps promote that product at a cost. The goal is to thus maximize the increased sale/lost sale balance of giving the product away.

      Given the gray area (which I think is also shaped differently depending on whether we're looking at an already heavily promoted act (such as Britney Spears) versus an independent (such as... err... someone I've never, ever heard of), it makes things trickier to decide. However, I feel the decision is fundamentally want that should be made by the person with the rights to the work (the artist or the label the artist has assigned those rights to -- yes, I hate record contracts, too, but I don't feel that disolves the copyright protection on the work).

      I still feel that there's financial benefit on the part of at least some (not necessarily even half) of the "pirates" to justify term. However, in the aggregate, I feel it still boils down to the rights of the artist to control how the work gets given away.

      "So let's make CDs like software and license the use rather than sell them, and prohibit their transfer in the EULA."

      I don't see how that changes things. I was under the impression that, despite the EULA, software trading and music trading are viewed more or less the same under the law.

    19. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Danse · · Score: 2

      Thus, there's at least some financial gain, justifying the term "piracy"


      Justifying it in some cases perhaps, but certainly not for the blanket accusations made by the RIAA.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    20. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Moonshadow · · Score: 2

      How many of those using p2p are under legal voting age? Yeah, the biggest users are probably the college crowd, but I suspect a substantial number of them are the junior high and high school crowd. My brother, who is in 8th grade, has a collection of several thousand MP3s, and it'll be 4 years till he can vote. The correlation is bound to be flawed.

    21. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by kevinank · · Score: 2
      Given the gray area (which I think is also shaped differently depending on whether we're looking at an already heavily promoted act (such as Britney Spears) versus an independent (such as... err... someone I've never, ever heard of), ...

      The Naked Barbies/Vagabond Lovers are my favorite local band. Seriously, get out and support your local bands; the players are accessible, you don't have to wait in lines or pay hundreds of dollars for front seat tickets, and the music is much more edgy and interesting than yet another crappy Rush album (my favorite commercial band.)

      --
      LibBT: BitTorrent for C - small - fast - clean (Now Versio
    22. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by MrResistor · · Score: 2
      Despite what everybody here wants to say, or how people want to spin it, the common way that software such as morpheus is used is ethically, and legally wrong.

      I would argue that the members of the RIAA have abused their copyrights, and therefore lost those rights.

      I offer as evidence the exhorbitant prices charged for music CDs. A CD cost twice as much as a Cassette (asuming one is available), but it actually costs much less to produce a CD. They have used bully tactics, leveraged their distribution monopoly, and pushed through unconstitutional legislation to artifically maintain those inflated prices.

      I'm not saying I would necessarily win in court, that would depend on the real evidence I could bring to support my claims. My point was to demonstrate the inherent flaws in your statement of ethical and legal absolutes. Both are dependent almost entirely on spin.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    23. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by dasunt · · Score: 2


      So, when I let my friend borrow my tools, instead of making him buy his own, and when I borrow some VHS movies he bought, instead of buying them myself, I'm a dirty, rotten communist whore, and so is he?


      I'm sorry, but your argument is flawed. Losing the sale, of, say, a satelite dish just because I visit a friend to watch the few shows I like doesn't mean I "stole" or "pirated" free satelite TV. In a way, I don't even recieve net financial gain, since the alternative would be not to have any TV at all, since I'm not interested in going to the hassle of getting a satelite dish (hell, I don't even have a phone yet at the new place).


      A copywrite holder can unintentionally sacrifice sales in several ways. A song being overplayed on the radio or TV might make a potential buyer otherwise lose interest and not buy the CD. Movies being played on broadcast TV might make an otherwise potential renter not rent a specific movie. (Oh, speaking of broadcast TV, I seem to watch it alot, at least the 4 channels I get, yet I rarely, if ever buy anything advertized. Is this wrong too?)


      Anyways, your argument is flawed. Just my $.02

    24. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Rogerborg · · Score: 2
      • there is no legislative or judicial pronouncement which says that fair use may not scale

      There's no legislative pronouncement, and never has been, that says that fair use encompasses making a tape for your friend.

      There's judicial precedent, but that's unreliable when applied to new technology.

      I'm really puzzled by where the idea came from that "fair use" covers anything other than non-commerical copying for educational or review purposes. It's an urban legend.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    25. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Rogerborg · · Score: 2
      • If there's a sale and I receive 50% off on the purchase of a $200 trenchcoat that I was going to buy anyway, then that's a net financial gain of $100

      If I see a designer outfit on a catwalk that costs $5000, and I make a perfect copy of it from an old pair of curtains, what's the loss to the designer? $5000, because I should have bought the original? Or nothing, because I was never going to buy the original anyway?

      I haven't bought music in any form for about fifteen years. Up until about two years ago, I didn't even bother downloading it. Now I have about two dozen tracks on my hard drive, from a dozen artists, most of them old or hard to get (try buying an album by a dead Canadian folk singer in the UK).

      What's the loss to the music industry? Two albums worth? A dozen albums worth (as I should only have been able to get these tracks by buying the albums that contained them)?

      Bollocks. It's zero. There's no way that I'd have paid for that music. I could wipe it all today and not be bothered. That's not an empty claim, I have done that repeatedly in the past: pull down a few tracks, dump them, pull a few more.

      Occasionally I'll pull down a track and then not listen to it for days, weeks, months. Sometimes I even pull one down and then never bother listening to it. Is that still theft? What if I pull down an Ogg Vorbis track, and don't have a player for it? Is that theft? Or a partial download? Is that half a theft? Is it better or worse than someone who pulls down a track and then listens to it ten times a day? If you're going to draw a distinction, where do you draw it?

      That's the problem with using trite analogies. They don't actually match the diversity of the actual activity in the real world.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    26. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by MrResistor · · Score: 2
      IANAL, but I would say not necessarily. That would certainly be the best way to do it, but you would also have to be able to show that their abuse has harmed you personally, and more importantly sufficiently to justify the loss of copyright. I think that would be very difficult for any given individual to do, although it could perhaps be done as a class action. I'm asuming, of course, a civil action rather than a criminal one, and I'm not sure what this would fall under. For an individual I suspect it would be easier to use that arguement as a defense or coutersuit.

      But again, IANAL...

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    27. Re:Trading copyrighted material is wrong. by Erasmus+Darwin · · Score: 2
      "As a result, the number of people who sampled and bought so outweighed the number of people who stole that during the period that Napster was fully operational cd sales *increased* by 5%. As soon as Napster was gutted cd sales *fell* by 5%"

      Slashdot | Napster Alternatives Coming Strong -- Napster may be dead, but its heirs have expanded the kingdom. If anything, I'd argue that the 5% figure is more of a reflection of how spending on luxury goods is tied to the state of the economy.

  3. Surprising. :) by Meefan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not sure how much of a difference this is going to make. The EFF is great and all, but, frankly, they don't have much of a presence in Washington. Not compared to the MPAA, RIAA, and friends.

    Still, Napster had one legal target; Peer to peer services have many. How are they going to stop these services? Especially open source ones? Seems to me that even if they "ban" or limit a given service, the legal ramifications are unlikely to extend to forks anyway. Change some comments and, violla! A new port!

    The fact that there is no clear person responsible for the content of the services except the users themselves makes it difficult, as I said. They can't prosecute eighty thousand or more individuals. It's impossible.

    --

    ------
    http://cooltech.org
    If it ain't cool, it ain't coolt
    1. Re:Surprising. :) by Fjord · · Score: 2

      How are they going to stop these services? Especially open source ones?

      If they can make it illegal to peer to peer, then they just have to make a few high profile cases against individuals in order to make people afraid to use it.

      --
      -no broken link
    2. Re:Surprising. :) by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      How are they going to stop these services? The fact that there is no clear person responsible for the content of the services except the users themselves makes it difficult...

      Easy. They'll use a three pronged approach:

      They'll start at the highest tier, making large ISP's kick out any user who shares P2P under threat of suit.

      They'll sue any major directory provider as an enabler (see the Music City suit).

      Finally, if there's anyone still sharing files to any noticable extent, they'll go after them individually.

      Remember that the RIAA doesn't need to completely stop sharing to win. They only need to make it dificult enough that most people don't go to the bother of doing it. They don't plan to win via eradication, but by attrition...

      --
      That is all.
    3. Re:Surprising. :) by Sheetrock · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The RIAA doesn't need to prosecute everybody using the systems to win; they need to make it impossible or at the least inefficient to copy material rather than to buy it. One way that they seem to think will be effective is to blast away file-sharing services using their massively superior legal budget -- but as you mention attempting to carry over this attack from the companies or individuals providing these services to the individuals using these services isn't feasible, particularly when you're talking about completely peer-to-peer filesharing with no central servers (like Gnutella).

      Their other tactics are more frightening, however. They are already coercing software and hardware manufacturers to add copy prevention and access controls to their products. They are trying to get laws pushed through to mandate these controls in products in which manufacturers are not already convinced to add them. I am not convinced that they aren't lobbying Congress to make file sharing using peer-to-peer methods (without some form of RIAA or government surveillance) illegal as well; and just as their other ideas have proven to be damaging to our rights well beyond simply protecting their material from massive copying (by, for example, getting Congress to give their tacit approval to copyright holders defining what fair use is on a per-product basis via the DMCA) I sudder to think about what plans they might have for us in the future... but I have little doubt that the EFF will once again be integral to whatever defense we can put up.

      --

      Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
      -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    4. Re:Surprising. :) by ryanwright · · Score: 2

      Easy. They'll use a three pronged approach:

      Nothing they can do will stop friends from sharing, however. At the last office I worked, there was a group of 5 people who had a CD burning club of sorts. They copied anything and everything they could get from friends, then brought them to work and made copies for each other. The net results was that within a few short months, each of them had thousands of CDs they didn't pay a dime for.

      This sort of thing has gone on forever. When I was in high school, I had hundreds of copied cassette tapes. I also had hundreds of tapes I'd purchased. The industry has done just fine with this sort of copying going on, and their profits were way up right smack in the middle of Napster's heyday. Why? Because people still buy CDs. I download thousands of files from Napster, and I've also purchased thousands of dollars worth of CDs. I never bought more music than when Napster was online - I found so many new (and old) artists that I hadn't added to my collection, and it's easier to buy the damn CD than spend x hours searching for every track with a flawless rip.

      However, I haven't bought a single CD since they shut Napster down, and won't until all of this silliness of lawsuits and copy protecting CDs stops.

      --
      -Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
  4. "freedom of technologists to innovate" by Alrocket · · Score: 3, Funny

    "This case is about the freedom of technologists to innovate and the public's right to communicate," said Fred von Lohmann, senior intellectual property attorney for the EFF.

    This sounds chillingly like what Bill Gates said a few days ago... :)

    Al.

  5. finally... by Prion86 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    as a muscian, the only thing i worry about is not getting credit for my music. if people want to share it, go right ahead. if i happen to make some money as an after effect....right on. im just happy that there is someone with some clout speaking out about the fact that it really is control over technology. this sort of thing has to be nipped in the ass now before more legal precedents (ie dmca) are established.

    --
    "Alot of people don't know what they are doing...and most are pretty good at it." -George Carlin
    1. Re:finally... by FortKnox · · Score: 2

      The amount musicians make vs. what the recording industry makes are two completely different numbers. If you were a true musician, you'd understand this.
      Ignorant musicians (read: Metallica) think they'd get less money if the recording industry lost a couple million (which is crap, cause the recording industry is still making a killing).

      Yeah, I bit on the troll, but I didn't want it modd'ed up more.

      --
      Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
  6. MusicCity or FastTrack? by CaseyB · · Score: 5, Interesting
    MusicCity produces only the "shell" software. The guts of the system (which is common to Morpheus, Kazaa, and Grokster) is called FastTrack.

    I'm not sure why the "shell" company is the target of the suit. Wouldn't it be more productive to attack FastTrack directly? After all, they're the company selling the real technology. I suppose the American company is easier go after.

    From a legal standpoint, if a piece of software is composed of many different components from different vendors, who do you hold accountable if they collectively create an "illegal" whole? Would Netscape or MS be held responsible if someone wrote a FastTrack plugin for their browser?

    1. Re:MusicCity or FastTrack? by deander2 · · Score: 2

      who do you hold accountable if they collectively create an "illegal" whole? Would Netscape or MS be held responsible if someone wrote a FastTrack plugin for their browser?

      No, MS nor Netscape would be responsible (according to the RIAA). The person who wrote the plugin would be.

      NOTE: I think the RIAA's position is BS, I'm just pointing out an error in this thinking here.

    2. Re:MusicCity or FastTrack? by CrazyBrett · · Score: 3, Funny

      They might be picking random targets because they don't know any better. Things are getting so desperate that they'll attack anything that has the word "Music" in the title.

      I vote we write a piece of software called MusicShareNet which does something trivial and unrelated, like editing text. Then we advertise it all over the place, and see if we can get the RIAA to panic and sue the authors :)

    3. Re:MusicCity or FastTrack? by CaseyB · · Score: 2
      No, MS nor Netscape would be responsible (according to the RIAA). The person who wrote the plugin would be.

      That was sort of my point. In a sense MusicCity has just written a "browser" to contain the FastTrack "plugin". So why are they the ones that are accountable?

      The analogy is a bit off, but you get the drift. Certainly the system could easily be written using a real plugin architecture -- would the blame then be shifted to FastTrack, just by virtue of the technical redesign?

    4. Re:MusicCity or FastTrack? by Cheeko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      By the same token, what if you simply had a newsgroup listing people's ICQ accounts (or other such program). People could then go initiate a conversation with anyone on the list, (ex: "hey do you have the new song"), then use ICQ to transfer any files. In essence this is an attack on peer-to-peer networking technology in general simply because it "could" be used to transfer music files. What if MusicCity was to change its name to pr0nCity, but still let people transfer whatever file types they wanted?

    5. Re:MusicCity or FastTrack? by autocracy · · Score: 2

      Because MusicCity is part that you notice. They don't want effect, they want glitter and control. How many people know|care what is behind the system?

      --
      SIG: HUP
    6. Re:MusicCity or FastTrack? by dhamsaic · · Score: 2

      or "IllegalMP3Swap - The software used by millions every day to illegally copy and distribute copyrighted music files!", put a pretty face on it, and, upon start-up, prompt for a password that's inputed by dragging the mouse in a very specific manner. Then let them pay some bozo $100/hour to crack it, only to find it prints "Hello, World!" and exits. :)

      --
      Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
  7. Not a very nice description of EFF by Erris · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The article's sound bite: The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), which has represented hackers, cryptographers and computer scientists in its push for digital rights..

    Is considerably at variance with the EFF's description of themselves. I'd say the EFF is closer to the truth. They represent all of us not just a minority that can be Reasonably And inconsequentially Discriminated against.

    --
    DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
    1. Re:Not a very nice description of EFF by null_session · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not sure what is bad about representing hackers, cryptographers and computer scientists. I guess you have already fallen for the media portrail of hackers, cryptographers and computer scientists as criminals and deviants. To my mind, at least, it would be an accolade to say that someone represented hackers, crypographers and computer scientists. Better that than lawyers, congressmen and fbi agents.

    2. Re:Not a very nice description of EFF by Danse · · Score: 2

      It's not that he's fallen for it. This is a mainstream piece, and given the mainstream media's consistent portrayal of hackers as criminals, do you think this makes the EFF look good to most people? Not likely.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  8. The problem is by GreenCrackBaby · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The RIAA and Motion Picture Association of America argue that this case differs little from those against Napster, Scour and Aimster, other file-swapping services that have been sued or shut down. All three companies are profiting from the trades of copyrighted works, or "building a business on the back of piracy" as the trade group executives are fond of saying.

    That's the problem with this....RIAA is actually correct. MusicCity, by serving up ads, is profiting from the piracy of content.

    What we need is someone to drum up some Morpheus-like software, and to release it as open source sans-ads. Then RIAA cannot argue their "they're making money off our copyrighted works" and will have little hope of winning on those grounds.

    --

    "The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
    1. Re:The problem is by Ardax · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean kinda like gift?

      --
      Pax, Ardax
    2. Re:The problem is by BryceH · · Score: 2, Interesting


      MusicCity, by serving up ads, is profiting from the piracy of content.


      True but thats not what the RIAA is saying. MusicCity is making money off of adds, true. The largest use of the software is for piracy, true. But i belive that the RIAA is saying that they, MusicCity, would not survive without piracy, and should be shut down. Now thats where the slope starts to get slippery. Would they survive? And whos job is it to deal with the copyright infringement anyway?? Should MusicCity be shut down because it is an enabling technology??? ftp and http are enabling technologies as well, and firearms? who needs them.. someone could get shot! Where should the line be drawn for software? i tend to think it should be the same line.. and the RIAA will have to ... (drum roll please) ... adapt!

      --
      "Shut up brain or ill stab you with a Q-tip" Homer Simpson
    3. Re:The problem is by mickeyreznor · · Score: 2, Informative

      What we need is someone to drum up some Morpheus-like software, and to release it as open source sans-ads. Then RIAA cannot argue their "they're making money off our copyrighted works" and will have little hope of winning on those grounds.

      You mean like opennap?

    4. Re:The problem is by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2
      Ya know, I think the whole broadband industry wouldn't survive without piracy (not like they're doing so well anyway). Downloading MP3s, downloading warez, downloading divx movies - these comprise a large portion of bandwidth traffic and justification for broadband access. Just look at the usage of an average college network as a model for what people do with broadband access. Let's say 20-30% of those packets fall into these categories (this primarily based on the massive size of this type of content - and yes, I've seen college network segments where this was clearly the case, like my roommate who was running a 10 gig MP3 server open to the Harvard network when I was a senior - he was sucking down a lot of bandwidth. Can you then argue that broadband access is "for a large part" supported by copyright infringement?


      If 30% isn't enough, then I suppose 80% is? Or 90%? Where do you draw the line? If 50% of the material transmitted via some mechanism is illegal, is the mechanism then illegal? I don't get it.

  9. Re:Central servers by binarybum · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Keep in mind that a lot of small bands wouldn't be making much money anyway and that several small bands that I've spoken with praise song swapping as a way to distribute their stuff so that someday they can become a "big band" and then they can rest comfortably knowning that since they're brining in revenue the RIAA will protect them by making sure listners sign a form and pay a service fee everytime they listen to one of their new releases.
    It's the college radio philosophy, and yes, it does work.

    --
    ôó
  10. It would be better by PineHall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    if MusicCity had a different name like FileShareCountry. Their name says that they are in the business of sharing music and thus making illegal file sharing a likely part of their software business. It would be better if they were about the general business of sharing files.

    1. Re:It would be better by dstone · · Score: 2

      if MusicCity had a different name like FileShareCountry.

      The obscure name approach didn't help "Napster" any.

  11. The Constitutional Bottom Line by melquiades · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's worth remembering in all of this that the US constitution grants congress a limited power to enact copyright law. Any such law must be design for the promotion of "science and the useful arts". The constitution does not grant congress any power of any kind to use copyright law to defend the profitability of corporations, or guarantee them that their business models will remain unchanged by technology.

    So, ask yourselves, does file sharing -- the exchange of information on a scale far exceeding anything we have seen in human history -- promote the progress of science and the useful arts?

    Does de facto control by coporations of the technology which makes this exchange possible promote the progress of science and the useful arts?

    1. Re:The Constitutional Bottom Line by Danse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They don't, but we'd better hope that the court does.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    2. Re:The Constitutional Bottom Line by hublan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, ask yourselves, does file sharing -- the exchange of information on a scale far exceeding anything we have seen in human history -- promote the progress of science and the useful arts?

      Not sure about the science bit. But I don't think I've ever bought as many CDs, or been exposed to as rich variety of music, since I started to use file swapping services.

      As the lawyer said, it's a technology control issue, plain and simple. Not worth arguing otherwise.

      RIAA doesn't give a hoot about the artist, even though they use that as their main defense. As an example, I met the singer from Twisted Sister (a massive 80s band for those of you born after 1985) working in a t-shirt shop in New York, looking rather sullen. Never saw a penny from the "benevolent friends of the artists", the music publishers, which RIAA is the front for.

      And by the way. It's not pirating, it's copyright infringment. Totally different issue even though the ??AA people would like the public to believe otherwise.

      --
      My spoon is too big.
    3. Re:The Constitutional Bottom Line by namespan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The constitution does not grant congress any power of any kind to use copyright law to defend the profitability of corporations

      The problem here is that the prevailing wisdom is that the arts/sciences are most advanced when profit from them is assured. And profit (again the prevailing wisdom goes) is only assured when people tightly control the rights to use their discovery. It's hard to completely argue that viewpoint away. Profit is a powerful motive that works in a lot of cases.

      So if you want to argue the case in the current political climate, you have to be able make an economic case, or make a truly compelling case to the average individual that some legitimate rights are being taken away.

      --
      Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
    4. Re:The Constitutional Bottom Line by krlynch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's worth remembering in all of this that the US constitution grants congress a limited power to enact copyright law.

      From the great document itself:

      Article I, Section 8, Clause 8: [The Congress shall have Power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

      As has been pointed out in the past on Slashdot, note very carefully that "limited" applies only to the time duration of the copy and patent rights; the Constitution explicitly gives Congress the power to grant rights of any scope as long as those rights are limited in duration, and as long as those rights do not infringe on any constitutionally protected rights.

      The constitution does not grant congress any power of any kind to use copyright law to defend the profitability of corporations, or guarantee them that their business models will remain unchanged by technology.

      I don't see that restriction anywhere in the Constitution; if Congress believes that such a provision would "promote ... science and the useful arts", it certainly could use its copyright power for such purposes. However, I challenge you to locate any section of the U.S. Code that actually authorizes the government to do that. What you will find are provisions in the Code that "secure for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries", and that among those Rights is: the Right to transfer of copyright (from artist ot music company); the Right to restrict the forms and methods by which those writings and discoveries are initially distributed (they aren't required to sell scribed wax cylinders or vinyl records); the Right to encrypt those writings and discoveries and to solely distribute the rights to decrypt them under terms decided by the holder of the copyright (DMCA); and many others rights.

      Whether these Rights that have been granted by copyright law satisfy the Constitutional requirements is not clear, as they haven't been tested in court, nor is it clear that they are good public policy; you and I may not like them, and you and I may think that some of them go too far, but it is not at all clear that they are unconstitutional (I would guess that most of them ARE constitutional, but bad public policy). And even if the law satisfies I.8.8, it is not clear that it doesn't violate some OTHER portion of the Constitution (some claim First Amendment rights are violated, others claim Fair Use and First Sale are constitutionally protected rights, just like the right of privacy), or if the law is in conflict with other legislation in certain circumstances (DMCA appears to many of us to conflict with the fair use provisions of the rest of the Copyright Act). I certainly think that some of the provisions of the DMCA are not Constitutional, but not because they violate the Copyright Clause.

      All that aside, claiming that the law has been written to "defend the profitability of corporations", or to "guarantee ... business models" is, frankly, silly. If that were the case, then the protections in the law would not apply to you and the things you create or discover (since you aren't a corporation); and the protections most certainly DO apply to you. That you don't like the way some corporations are utilizing their granted copyrights has no bearing on the question of whether the granted rights are Constitutional; certainly, I don't like the way government contractors are required to bid on a project as if they were a union shop even when they aren't, but that doesn't mean the laws requiring such things are unconstitutional.

      So, ask yourselves, does file sharing ... promote the progress of science and the useful arts?

      Certainly this is irrelevant to the copyright argument! Sharing files may or may not promote progress; sharing of copyrighted sound files without the express permission of the copyright holder, even without the DMCA, is certainly illegal, and making it so was certainly within the purview of the Congress -- that you are using FreeNet instead of SneakerNet, or that you are using mp3 instead of analog-casette, simple changes of technology, doesn't make it any less illegal. The technology in this case is irrelevant to the legality of exchange; the Napster case (and all other similar cases) was not about technology, but whether by being an enabler of copyright infringement to the near exclusion of all other business, Napster was an infringer itself. The question of whether copyright infringement itself occurred was never questioned by anyone associated with the case, because it was crystal clear that infringement had occurred. Trying to hide from this fact and claim that Congress doesn't have the power to make that type of infringing illegal is only going to get you ignored by the public, the legislators, and the courts.

    5. Re:The Constitutional Bottom Line by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2

      17 years is a limited time. This is how long copyrights lasted at one point, IIRC.

      Now it's 90 years after the death of the author. That's still a limited time.

      When Disney buys Congress in 2038 or whenever to keep its cartoons from going into public domain, the new limit of 1 billion years will still be a limited time. That's a problem with the Constitution (actually, it's not, it's modern law-makers). If it's not spelled out explicitly (and sometimes even when it is), law-makers feel they can deconstruct the language to make it say anything they mean.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  12. But you don't need a plugin.. by PopeAlien · · Score: 3, Funny

    'Illegal' files can be got via HTTP or FTP.. You can find lists of them on webpages, most likely created with MS front page and viewed on Internet Explorer.. I think its time we really got tough on piracy and threw the whole Redmond lot in jail!

  13. Gnutella by CaptainSuperBoy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Gnutella, although it's horribly inefficient, is just what you mentioned: Morpheus-like software that uses no central indexing server that can be shut down. The protocol is freely available and many open source clients exist.

    The RIAA's approach to Gnutella thus far has been actively discovering copyright offenders and sending DMCA complaints to their ISP. The problem with Gnutella is that by design, everyone knows your IP.

    What we really need, is a distributed storage network such as FreeNet. If I share my songs, the don't come from my computer - various parts of them are propagated to Bill's computer in Texas, Alice's computer in Canada, and Charlie's computer in Norway.. The RIAA is already having nightmares about this technology maturing. If software like this can become as efficient as Morpheus currently is, the RIAA's only hope would be SSSCA-type legislation that bans software such as FreeNet.

    1. Re:Gnutella by blair1q · · Score: 2

      The RIAA's lawyers could convince the government invoke RICO and declare anyone participating as a server in a piracy network to be a racketeer. That's federal time you'd have to serve just because you think "music should be free".

      --Blair

    2. Re:Gnutella by FFFish · · Score: 2

      It'll be interesting should they send a letter to my ISP. I'm up in Canada. If I get any heat about my Gnutella use, I'll be laying claim in court.

      I pay a surtax on CDs that goes to the music industry. By that basis alone, I believe I have the legal right to copy as much music as I wish.

      --

      --
      Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
    3. Re:Gnutella by keytoe · · Score: 2

      I pay a surtax on CDs that goes to the music industry. By that basis alone, I believe I have the legal right to copy as much music as I wish.

      I've been wondering about this a bit lately. The RIAA is pushing surtaxed CDs in the US onto manufacturers of comodity devices (CDtoCD recorders, et al). This is ostensibly done to provide a means to collect 'lost' revenue for the artist. I'm assuming that 'lost' revenue is coming from piracy.

      I guess I'm unclear about which position the RIAA holds. Is copying a CD absolutely unallowable, or can I copy it if I pay the tax on the blank media? I think I'd be fairly happy to pay a nominial fee for my media if I were given carte blanche duplication capabilities.

      So, RIAA, where do you stand. Am I never supposed to copy a CD, or are you going to go the path of blank cassette tapes? You can't continue this hypocrasy - either I can, or I can't copy. Make up your damned mind...

      And 'only when I say you can' is not a valid answer.

    4. Re:Gnutella by OmegaDan · · Score: 2

      Im pretty sure sharing mp3s isnt a rico predicate in any conciveable way.

  14. I havent touched a file sharing program by night_flyer · · Score: 2

    in over three months, Ive been getting bootleg concerts from alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootlegs, on the same note, I havent purchased a CD from a retail store in over a year, instead I look for used ones at pawnshops.

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
  15. They'll have to do this forever... by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let's see, first it was ftp server hiden in machines at work or college, they conviced companies and colleges to shut them down. then came napster, they sued and won. napster is no more.

    Now the target is Music City. The may eventually win this too, and they can even win some kind of legal stuff to force ISP to filter Gnutella trafic...

    But there's more thing in the oven. Cult Of Dead Cow, the same group tha gave us BackOrifice, is developing what they call "project X" that will be ablle to do peer-to-peer file sharing despite censorwares installed in the midle...

    And if RIAA wins over "project X" too ??? smart hackers (in the good sense) will come with aven another tool to share files.

    RIAA is just trying to atract free publicity to the copyright issue, because technically speaking, it's a lost war for them, and I think they know this.

    --
    What ? Me, worry ?
    1. Re:They'll have to do this forever... by Rogerborg · · Score: 2
      • RIAA is just trying to atract free publicity to the copyright issue, because technically speaking, it's a lost war for them, and I think they know this

      There is a body of opinion that thinks that the long term goal of the RIAA/MPAA is to lose, lose and lose again, each time strengthening their argument (supported by limos full of roofied cheerleaders and small unmarked non-sequential bills) to the legislature that the only way to stop this happening is to control the content until it hits your brain, and to jail anyone who so much as dissents, let alone tries to crack the system.

      Paranoid? Cynical? Get back to me in ten years, and we'll compare notes.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  16. P-2-P for Linux Distributions... by A+Commentor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why hasn't Morpheus been used to distribute new Linux distributions. The last time that Mandrake and Red Hat were release, I looked on Morpheus and could not find the current release... I had to fight along with everyone else to get to a ftp server that would let me download.

    Once I downloaded the ISOs, I put it in my files directory for Morpheus, but didn't notice anyone downloading it...

    It could speed up the downloads (and require less bandwidth from their servers) if Redhat/Mandrake would put the files out on Morpheus to get shared.

    --

    Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com

    1. Re:P-2-P for Linux Distributions... by O2n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why hasn't Morpheus been used to distribute new Linux distributions

      For exactly the same reason they didn't use windowsupdate.microsoft.com : completely different audience, completely different content.

      Although I agree it would be nice idea, you'll see that a surprisingly low number of people would agree to share the redhat iso images compared to the ones ready to share pr0n.

      -- I am not a troll

    2. Re:P-2-P for Linux Distributions... by mickeyreznor · · Score: 2

      I put it in my files directory for Morpheus, but didn't notice anyone downloading it...

      could be because morpheus doesn't work in nix.

    3. Re:P-2-P for Linux Distributions... by dvdeug · · Score: 2

      If I have a choice, I'd rather download something from a web source. There's more confidence that it'll be there, that it's what it says it is, and that it hasn't been trojaned, and if it has been messed with, I know who did it.

      Frankly, that's one of the big legal problems with peer-to-peer. I'd rather go to www.promo.net/pg for my public domain texts; I'd rather go to www.debian.org for my packaged linux software. If an artist put up a webpage with his music, I'd go to that webpage for the music. So Gnutella and most other peer-to-peer systems end up being 95% stuff that can't have an official source on the web (copyrighted music, movies, porn, etc.) with the other 5% crank stuff and the occaisonal free song that got slipped in there or someone's personal porn creations or the like. Peer-to-peer just isn't an efficent method for legal stuff.

  17. RIAA is going to buy out FastTrack... by mmacdona86 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and then Kazaa, Morpheus and MusicCity instantly become irrelevant. FastTrack is a small company in it for the money. The record companies could make them happy probably for less money then they would spend in legal fees suing the other companies.

    FastTrack will probably announce its new, "rights-protecting" software at about the same time that the record company-sponsored download sites become available, so its large customer base will be in the lurch and vulnerable to being picked up by the record companies.

    EFF should save its resources for defending file-sharing based on Open Source software.

  18. Difference? by UCRowerG · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I just don't see how these services are all that different from existing technology, notably photocopiers and scanners. True, a photocopier doesn't make an exact and perfect copy of the source, but most of the time it's just text. As long as it can still be read easily, there's no complaint.

    It is true that photocopiers are often used to illegally duplicate copyrighted material, but I have yet to hear of any court or government agency outlawing their use. Is this situation really that different?

    1. Re:Difference? by sam@caveman.org · · Score: 2, Insightful

      actually it is different - and don't ignore me because i disagree, because in principle i'd like to believe that 'MusicCity' has substantial, non-infringing use, but in truth it doesn't. photocopiers are primarily used to copy things which are allowed to be copied - to make 100 copies of a resume, to make 500 copies of a flyer, etc. 'MusicCity' and most of the other 'file sharing' networks are primarily used for the purpose of copyright infringement - worse, most were designed with the explicit goal of easily infringing the copyrights.

      whether you or i believe copyright infringement is bad is irrelevant. the law currently exists to prevent this kind of thing, and those who feel they are being hurt by the activity (of course this is debateable also) can ask that the law be excercised.

      -sam

      --
      burn the computers. go back to the abacus.
    2. Re:Difference? by freeweed · · Score: 2
      You know, it's precisely this sort of thing that makes me not give a shit whether what I'm doing is piracy or not. This year alone I've spent over $1,000 on textbooks, for which roughly I'll be using 20% of the material inside. The professors can't just provide us with the relevant chapters, and so basically I'm forced to buy 4x more than what I really want.

      The same issue with CDs: for years I've hated to buy an album just for one or two songs. I could say the same for things like movies and TV shows, and software (Windows, anyone?) for that matter: knowing that the consumer DOES NOT WANT the whole package, we're forced to buy it anyway. It's called 'tied-selling' and in many industries is illegal.

      When content creators lose their monopoly-ish controls on their markets (textbooks, cds, software, anything), or they start actually selling me what I want, and ONLY what I want.. then I'd be happy to purchase from them.

      In the meantime, call it immoral/illegal/whatever. I'll still be downloading mp3s, and photocopying books from the library.

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
  19. Re:Central servers by CaseyB · · Score: 2
    I thought that MusicCity did change the system so that to log in you had to authenticate with the central servers - i think it was a response to some project on sourceforge.

    Yup: giFT. The compatibility with the FastTrack network was broken with a change in the encryption algorithms used by the client.

    FastTrack is now entirely susceptible to an attack on the central servers.

  20. Re:Woods by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 2, Funny

    Correction:
    If a boy band plays and no one hears, does it still suck?

  21. Re:If they start taking folks doing the trading aw by sam@caveman.org · · Score: 2, Funny

    maybe they'll let the rapists and armed robbers out to make room for the copyright infringers and pot smokers.

    oh, wait... they already do that...

    -sam

    --
    burn the computers. go back to the abacus.
  22. Home Recording Act by richieb · · Score: 3, Informative
    Actually it is. Read the Home Recording Act. Distribution is illegal, if done commercially - i.e. you sell the copies.

    Is it fair use if you lend your friend the CD? Is it fair use if people come to your house and listen to the recording?

    ...richie

    --
    ...richie - It is a good day to code.
  23. WRONG by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 3, Interesting
    US Code Title 17 Chapter 10 Subchapter D Section 1008 (from Copyright Act as amended by the Audio Home Recording Act):
    No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.
    So it all depends on the definintion of "noncommercial use." If it means "you get no money in return", then obviously it's OK. If it means "you get nothing of value in return", then it could be argued that trading is illegal since you are receiving something of value (other recordings), thus the use is commercial. The sticky part would be if it means "you don't neccessarily get anything of value in return". That seems intuitively to me to be the correct interpretation, and would also seem to make file sharing in this context legal since I have no assurance that the people who consume the files I publish will in turn publish something I might want.

    I guarantee you that the RIAA and MPAA would like to have noncommercial defined as "you receive nothing of value."

    Unfortunately, though Chapter 10 defines many of its terms, it doesn't define "noncommercial." If anyone knows of somewhere else withing the Copyright Act or any other portion of the USC, let me know.

    IANAL, but I can read.

    --

  24. Money is the nerve for war by tcc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Does EFF has a Paypal donation address or something similar without having to go thru all the problems of writing a check putting it in an envelope and actually GO OUTSIDE to mail it? It would be really useful and I encourage people that support the EFF to do the same.

    Timelapse recording is legal in my book. Swapping movies over the net wouldn't be happening THAT much if the crap they shove at us would be worth seeing in a theatre... I go see movies about every week or 2, so I am a customer, and that gives me the right to complain as well, there will always be pirates, you will never get rid of them, but Movie swapping over the net wouldn't be happening that much if the DVDs would be set at a reasonable price and the movies themselves WORTH SEEING ON A BIGGER SCREEN. I won't repeat What I said in a previous similar post again but for god's sake, put up some better content to protect in the first place!

    RIAA, I won't even talk about them, I don't wanna reduce de lifespan of my $9.75 keyboard for that subject :).

    --
    --- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
  25. Charley Pride by yerricde · · Score: 2


    I think their name has a lot to do with the fact that they're based in Nashville(Music City),TN


    So is MusicCity Records, which puts copy-protection on new releases such as a certain Charley Pride CD.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  26. Not so fast! by MrResistor · · Score: 2
    You're definately taking the more difficult side of that arguement.

    I could very easily argue that the tape I make for my friend is for nonprofit educational purposes (namely, to introduce my friend to a musical group or style of music that they were formerly unfamiliar with). This arguement becomes even easier if it's a mix tape.

    I could also argue that it is a personal backup which I have loaned to my friend.

    Anyway, here is an excellent resource if you're interested in the specifics.

    --
    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    1. Re:Not so fast! by MrResistor · · Score: 2
      I agree, and that's another thing that makes that sort of copying fair use. There are a lot of warez sites that present stuff "for preview only" and that statement protects them from a lot of liability. At least that was the case when I actually went to warez sites, which was a couple of years ago.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  27. want credit? use watermarking by Splork · · Score: 2

    People just want the music, not to take credit for it. Digitally watermarking is the perfect application for this type of thing. Even if it is possible to mangle or remove the watermark with a lot of effort, there would be no point.

  28. Difference between Mozilla and Morpheus by yerricde · · Score: 2

    In a sense MusicCity has just written a "browser" to contain the FastTrack "plugin". So why are they the ones that are accountable?

    The essential difference between the Mozilla browser and the IE "browser" on the one hand and MusicCity's Morpheus "browser" on the other is that Mozilla and IE are primarily designed and marketed for legitimate purposes such as reading and posting to OSDN Slashdot, OSDN Freshmeat, and ex-OSDN Kuro5hin, and for viewing content with legitimate plugins such as Macromedia's SWF player, whereas MusicCity's browser cannot work with anything other than the FastTrack plugin.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  29. Re:Countermeasures by Splork · · Score: 2

    this sounds like a lot of what mojonation implements.

  30. That has been proven to not work... by Svartalf · · Score: 2

    Remember that RIAA threatened Felten over the potential publication of his proof that all of the watermarking schemes proposed for SDMI could be scrubbed out of a file and not degrade quality any more than the watermark did. Watermarking has NOT been proven to really work- it's a nice idea, but so far, the practice thereof has not panned out like people thought it would.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  31. Re:There is no alternative to trading. by mosch · · Score: 2
    Wow, as much as $0.20 per song. Wow, how generous! Why, given the artists time to compose the work, the studio time for production, the post-production, the creation of a website to sell the work, the advertisement of said site, the operation of said site and the advertisement of the original work, that could make as much as -$1.00/track for the artist! What a deal!

    If the artist sold a five million copies or so, they'd almost be able to recoup their costs. Wow. This is a great idea, and must be implemented immediately!

  32. No Central Server? by FooManChuYouMoo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Last I heard, it does have a central server; although not in the same sense that Napster did.

    Check here:http://gift.sourceforge.net/press_9_29_01.htm l

  33. Re:The Constitutional Bottom Line [OT] by KelsoLundeen · · Score: 2

    And as an interesting (and, yes, off-topic) aside: one summer when I was around 12 or 13, my parents sublet the apartment next to his on 7th avenue in Manhattan. This was long before the "We're Not Gonna Take It" song -- more like when they were still paying dues in clubs and wearing their high heels and thick lipstick.

    Anyway, two observations about Dee Snider: (1) he was one of the nicest, coolest people a 13 year old could possibly hope to meet and (2) he had the biggest damn stereo system I'd ever seen in my 13 years.

    I mentioned that the apartment my parents sublet was next to his? Well, my bed was on the other side of the wall where his stereo was. That stereo put out enough base to shake my titties and whip the snot from my nose even when I was fast asleep -- which was seldom, since the stereo was almost always on, shaking and whipping me into sleep-deprived obvlion.

    But Dee's all around coolness more than made up for the noise (which, in the grand scheme of things was no big deal).

    Anyway, I thought I'd point this out.

    Dee Snider rocks!

  34. Re:There is no alternative to trading. by Rader · · Score: 2


    ...because food could be distributed free...

    You're forgetting that in this scenario that the food IS already being distributed for free. That there are too many of these freebie-vendors to catch and send to jail or fine. So, instead they want to make the carts illegal, which makes no sense.

    This guy just suggested that a better solution (than banning carts) is make better carts, more of them, and bigger -- and cash in. It is a good idea. Obviously it's a good idea. It's being done by the "bad guys".

    If you say the sentence out loud, it's true that a company shouldn't be FORCED to arbitrarily change the way they do business. But wait, that's what a free capitalistic market is all about. If that is what people want, normal competition would drive any other business into these types of evolutions or perish. That's the problem with this scenario. There is a monopoly in place. Efficiency, listening to consumers, giving consumers what they want, competitive prices, loss in sales, increase in sales, going out of business, and much much more is normal for other businesses. Why not this one?

    Rader

  35. Music IP law should be dead by now! by Computer! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before I get started, here's two of my favorite quotes from the article:

    At a speech in Washington, D.C., she told software developers that it was only the specific illegal use of the software that the group is trying to stop, asking them to help develop applications that respected artists' rights to be paid.


    Thanks for asking, but when was the last time the music industry spoke out against software piracy?! I just thought their cries for help were funny. Also:

    The question is...whether they'll respect what artists create just like we in the recording business respect what the business sponsors and software developers in this audience create.

    Great idea! I think what the RIAA needs is a good 'ol fashioned audit. Let's track down the license for every Pro Tools plugin and MIDI utility, make sure every copy of Word is official. I bet they've got Morpheus on their boxes!

    Now, here's why the whole thing is an issue. Back in the day (pre 20th century), musicians made their money on performance. When people showed up to watch, they got paid. In order for this to work, there had to be lots of moderately-paid musicians, and only a few starving, or well-paid ones. If you were good actually performing, you became successful. Enter the age of 78s and radio. All of the sudden, musicians could make money without even showing up! Once a master recording was made, it could be duplicated with little effort (relative to cloning the musician and his band), and played over and over, for fans around the globe. In effect, record companies were granted a license to mint currency! This wasn't a big deal at first, since live performances, and the music audience in general, were small. Now with the mega-tour, and packaged crap being pumped into our ears by sleazy record execs, it is time to make a change. If you can't make money by touring, you need to hang it all up. It's time to bring the performance back into music. It's obvious that IP law won't stop 10 million people from listening to your music for free. As an artist, you now have the opportunity to dump the whole distribution channel and still make a decent living actually playing music for a live audience! Think of how much more integrity the business would have. No more gold records, only an artist and his axe (or tuba, or whatever). When that artist dies, we all have the right to enjoy his art forever, without interference. Think about that right there.

    --
    If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
  36. Join online at EFF.org! by mmacdona86 · · Score: 3, Informative

    EFF.org does accept donations online, and they send you a nifty bumper sticker when you join up! Everyone who reads YRO on Slashdot should be a member.

  37. Not necessarily.. by Danse · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, it could very well be considered fair use, or at least that's the way the law seems to read. Fair use matters are extremely tricky to work out and courts constantly differ on how to deal with them. Here's a good excerpt from Terry Carroll's copyright FAQ:


    3.7) Can I legally make a cassette copy of a musical CD for my own use, so I can play it in my car?


    This issue has been argued back and forth for many years, with consumers groups arguing that this was a fair use (see sections 2.8 and 2.9), and the recording industry arguing that it was not. The issue was finally settled by Congress when the Audio Home Recording Act (AHRA) (P.L. 102-563, 106 Stat. 4237, codified at 17 U.S.C. 1001 - 1010) was passed in October 1992. This Act added ten sections to Title 17, one of which provided an alternative to the fair use analysis for musical recordings.


    The new section states:


    No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings. 17 U.S.C. 1008.


    As the legislative history to this statute noted, "In short, the reported legislation would clearly establish that consumers cannot be sued for making analog or digital audio copies for private noncommercial use." H.R. Rep. 102-780(I).


    Does this mean you can make copies for your family and friends, as long as it's not "commercial?"


    A strict reading of the words in the statute
    would seem to say that you may. This is not as outrageous as it sounds. Part of the impetus behind the AHRA was the perception that blank tapes were being used mostly to copy commercial musical sound recordings. As a result, the AHRA provided that a royalty payment (referred to as a "DAT tax" by its detractors) be paid for each sale of digital audio tape to compensate authors of musical works and sound recordings for the profits lost due to these copies. See 17 U.S.C. 1003, 1004. Arguably, the AHRA anticipates and allows exactly this type of copying, and a literal reading of section 1008 would tend to support this position. But the AHRA is still sufficiently new this hasn't been tested in court yet.


    Note, also, that this section applies only to musical recordings; it clearly does not include spoken word recordings. Of course, it is still
    possible that such a use of a spoken word recording might still be considered a section 107 fair use (see sections 2.8 and 2.9), even though
    section 1008 does not apply to provide a clear exemption.

    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  38. RIP - Sam the Record Man by frank249 · · Score: 2

    Sam the Record Man -A chain of Canadian music stores just filed for bankruptcy after operating for the past 65 years(see story here).

    'But the key factors that toppled the retailer that was once Canada's top music merchant were fierce competition from rival chains, such as HMV Canada Inc. and Wal-Mart Canada Inc., and the growing popularity of music downloads from the Internet, they added.' One person in the story was quoted...'And Sams was hurt by people who, like him, downloaded music from the Internet. "My friends don't bring CDs to parties any more -- they bring their computers,' Mr. Broadhead, 31, said.'

    Free music is great but it is hurting music sales which has an effect on not just the artists and music companies but lots of small store owners.

    --

    Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

    1. Re:RIP - Sam the Record Man by gorilla · · Score: 2

      I think HMV & Walmart were the much bigger factors. They could go to the suppliers and demand big discounts. Sam's was just too small to compete. As the last paragraph says '"Even when the company began investing in its e-commerce business in 1998, Sams was already in trouble, he said. "I'm sure the money they spent on the Internet didn't help" "'

    2. Re:RIP - Sam the Record Man by irix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you live in Canada? I do, and I haven't bought any CDs there in a long time. Why? Too damn expensive. They were selling CDs at a buck or two more than FutureShop, WalMart, CDWarehouse, etc.

      CD sales are up over the last 5 years. Even if you consider that they are down somewhat this year you have to consider the overall economic climate.

      Sams went under becuase of poor business decisions, not becuase of Napster. Quoting some clown who brings his laptop to parties doesn't change that.

      --

      Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
  39. Re:want credit? use watermarking by dvdeug · · Score: 2

    Or, hey, put your name in the ID3 tag. Doesn't mess with the music and it automatically comes up when you play it. Sure it's easier to remove, but how many people would want to remove it?

  40. Hysteria by morgue-ann · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The RIAA's approach to Gnutella thus far has been actively discovering copyright offenders and sending DMCA complaints to their ISP

    I was a bit worried about this so I did some research. The only case of someone actually losing access was covered in an article on Salon. News.com reported about pressure on ISPs, but mentioned only one subscriber being cut off.

    I checked the dslreports message boards expecting to find howls of protests by those cut off from their monopoly broadband providers. Silence....

    I think the RIAA and MPAA are doing a great job at scaring people away from file sharing without actually paying many bounty hunters because the idea of a secret copyright police force is so juicy.

    Similarly, there seems to be hysteria about people being denied boarding on aircraft for being dissidents. The Bangor, Maine Green Party member turns out to have been pretty uncooperative. Yes, the guard was an overbearing oaf, but she admits to provoking him in an interview . The Green's press release doesn't mention any of this.

    The guy detained in Germany for having "unconventional" views and the guy denied flying for having a copy of Hayduke Lives look like the result of hysterical untrained guards, not a plot to deny everyone's civil rights. More hysteria won't help.

    The guy who was harassed for taking pictures of National Guardsmen at a security checkpoint probably should have asked first (it's supposedly not illegal, but photography at customs is so he should have thought a bit), but he was another victim of a freakazoid with a chip on his shoulder.

    I don't think we should have to turn into loyal plastic robots, but I'm not going to wear my Circumvention Device t-shirt through airport security. No need to get the wheels of teeny minds spinning.

    There's certainly an epidemic of ineptitude (that's not new since Sept. 11), but I don't believe there's an epidemic of harrassment. Likewise of ISPs and their customers.

    1. Re:Hysteria by firewort · · Score: 2
      I checked the dslreports [dslreports.com] message boards expecting to find howls of protests by those cut off from their monopoly broadband providers. Silence....

      Gee, people cut off from service are silent. Maybe because they got cut off from their service?

      --

    2. Re:Hysteria by firewort · · Score: 2

      Right up til they get sued for not complying with DMCA, which pretty much puts them on notice, either they act when a DMCA complaint is made, or be subject to prosecution as an accomplice. That's why ISPs are so cowed.

      So it's really more like, less money now, versus no money after fighting lawsuit and losing.

      --

  41. My point still stands by melquiades · · Score: 2

    Read it carefully:

    Congress shall have power to promote the progress of science and the useful arts by securing to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their writings and discoveries.

    Congress has the power to enact copyright law only for the purpose of promoting intellectual progress, not for the purpose of protecting profitability. Companies are free to try to profit through copyright, but congress should not and cannot protect that profitability by extending copyright law. That is my point.

    You write: Sharing of copyrighted sound files without the express permission of the copyright holder, even without the DMCA, is certainly illegal...Trying to hide from this fact and claim that Congress doesn't have the power to make that type of infringing illegal is only going to get you ignored by the public, the legislators, and the courts.

    You're reading my argument a bit recklessly. I agree that Napster was a party to infringement. And I certainly agree that congress has the power to make some forms of copying illegal. But what we are seeing in these file sharing cases are complaints like: "This software will put us out of business" and "our copyright interests supercede the interest of the advancement of technology".

    These arguments are exactly what the constitution does not provide for. The constitution's responses are: "Tough shit!" and "No it doesn't."

    The DMCA, whatever it is, is not copyright law under the scope of the constitution.

  42. Re:Central servers by geomcbay · · Score: 2

    So, Musiccity are being a little ingenious when they say no central servers. That is how it started, but if their servers were taken away there would be no Morpheus.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC aren't the servers run by a different organization than MusicCity? Somewhere in Europe I believe? (Sweden?). So while the system may suffer from the central servers going down, the loss of MusicCity wouldn't bring that about. Of course the RIAA can always sue the other company, and may be (they seem to be suing everyone these days so I've lost track of who is on the list) but it would probably be a tougher suit in a non-US country.

  43. Re:But they can't by elefantstn · · Score: 2
    What's more, if they buy Fasttrack and shut it down, someone else will instantly duplicate the functionality.


    You had better believe it.
    --
    If it ain't broke, you need more software.
  44. Stealing music is wrong, Music City is right by tuxlove · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I fully support the RIAA's right to not have music stolen and distributed for free. Downloading music you haven't paid for is just plain wrong.

    I also support the right of services like Morpheus to exist. Internet users should have the absolute right to distribute their files via the Internet, and whether they do it via FTP, HTTP or FastTrack technology is irrelevant. They're all one and the same.

    What I don't support is users distributing copyrighted works. You shouldn't do that! Bad copyright infringer!! That said, shouldn't it be the fault of the copyright infringer, not the developer of the technology that allows file sharing? Else, FTP, HTTP, etc. would all be illegal, and we know how stupid an argument that is. While we're at it, why not ban TCP/IP too, because that's how all the data gets passed around. And ISPs and Internet backbones should also be nuked because they are the ones responsible for enabling users to pass around TCP packets.

    It seems plain and obvious to me, but unfortunately legal issues rarely end up being simple. I could actually see the RIAA winning a case against Music City. The stupidity of our legal system cannot be underestimated.

    It's for that reason that I think the RIAA should go to hell. They would gladly snuff out anything they consider detrimental to business, regardless of how legitimate it is; and they would do so using any underhanded legal method available to them (and even possibly illegal methods, if some of the RIAA memos floating around can be believed). I sympathized with their stance against Napster, mainly because Napster could only work with MP3 files and was plainly designed for stealing music for free. Services like Music City work with any file type, and are so general-purpose that they cannot be faulted. Until the RIAA comes up with a way for file sharing services to determine the copyright ownership of a music file, generic file sharing services should be allowed to list any file they want. Until such capability is made available to them by copyright owners, they should be bound by all the same rules as bind any other file transfer protocol.

    In other words, if a user lists illegal files via a web site, FTP site or Morpheus node, it's that user's responsibility and nobody else's. Music City has no way to tell what's legal and what isn't. And frankly, neither does the RIAA, since the technology does not exist to verify music with reasonable accuracy and in a timely fashion. You can't use filenames alone, for obvious reasons.

    My internal conflict rages on. Even though I feel the RIAA has a right to not be ripped off, their methods of protecting themselves are beyond evil. We've heard all about their exploits over the years, but the one that really pushed me over the edge is their plan to copy-protect all CDs produced after Q1 2002. That's right, they are planning on releasing only CDs that, in theory, can't be ripped. That effectively stops my ability as an actual paying customer to make personal copies of music I've paid for. The most evil part is that not only are they doing this in a vain attempt to keep people from distributing music illegally, they're also trying to force consumers to buy their music a *second* time if they want a digital copy. And, of course, if you do buy that second copy, it will be protected via some DRM mechanism that makes actually listening to it on your own computer or digital playback device a chore.

    It's because of this that I've actually started using Morpheus. I'm sorry to say, but I've caved in. I never used Napster for ethical reasons, but even people of principle sometimes have their limits. I just can't stomach supporting a cause which is so evil, even if the evil springs from a legitimate grievance. Spank me, I'm a copyright infringer.

  45. Deceiving artists is just as wrong. by yerricde · · Score: 2

    Which doesn't change the fact that you can choose not to sign that contract if you don't like its terms.

    Five record labels control the promotion of music, and they all have the same one-sided contract terms. Therefore, an artist can choose one of these:

    1. Major label Foo, with a lopsided contract.
    2. Major label Bar, with a lopsided contract.
    3. Major label Baz, with a lopsided contract.
    4. Major label Blah, with a lopsided contract.
    5. Major label Yadda, with a lopsided contract.
    6. Any of various independent labels with a contract that provides a fairer share of royalties but no chance of airplay because the major labels control the companies that tell mainstream radio stations what to play and no record sales because
      1. consumers don't know the artist even exists, and
      2. the major labels control the companies that tell mainstream music stores what to carry.
    7. No label, no contract, and no career.
    Is that much of a choice?

    if the majority of artists make the mistake of signing contracts that they don't understand.

    ...then the majority of labels make the mistake of writing contracts that deceive artists.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Deceiving artists is just as wrong. by krlynch · · Score: 2

      Is that much of a choice?

      Yes it is: if you don't like the legal reality of a given industry, don't work in that industry. Do something else. If I don't like the types of offers I get for postdoctoral positions in my field, and I sign a contract and take a job anyway, I can't very well complain that the postdoctoral market is "unfair" and that by not signing I will have "no career". Life isn't fair sometimes, but it isn't because other people are "evil" or "lying"; that's just the way life is. There are many times in your life when you have to make a decision that you might not like; it isn't everyone else's fault when that happens.

      ...then the majority of labels make the mistake of writing contracts that deceive artists.


      No, it doesn't mean that at all. Contracts are a way of spelling out, in detail, the rights and responsibilities of all parties to the contract. As they are legal instruments, the language they are written in is the language of the legal system, and what words mean in the legal system, they don't necessarily mean in common usage. This is no different than the way language is used in other specialized areas: "quantum leap" in physics and in common usage not only have different meaning, they are almost antonyms! "Hacker" means different things to the general public and to the computer literati. If you call a computer geek a "cracker" and he may get mad at you because he thinks of himself as a "hacker"; you call someone a "cracker" on the street, and you may find yourself with a major racial incident on your hands. Similarly, if you read a legally binding contract assigning words the meaning they have in general parlance, you have screwed up; what is very straightforward and unimpeachable legal language to a lawyer may mean an entirely different thing to someone with no legal training. But when that contract is interpreted by the courts, don't expect to be able to get away with the "it doesn't mean what I thought it meant" argument. To call legal language "deceptive" because it means something other than what its colloquial interpretation would be is not a defense, and doesn't make sense. If a non-programmer tells you that your use of "branch" in a discussion about your latest program is wrong because "everyone knows that a branch is a part of a tree", who's the one that is wrong?

      Does that mean that I think all contracts are clear and unquestionable, or that no contracts are deceptive? Of course not; there are many lawsuits every year over the interpretation of contracts. But most contracts are _not_ legally ambiguous and deceptive, and most clauses of most contracts are also not legally ambiguous and deceptive. Most contract lawsuits come down to one of the parties not understanding what is clearly written in the contract, or not being happy with what they signed and claiming that the meaning is different than what it is in order to try and renegotiate the deal.

      The bottom line: if you aren't a practitioner in a field, don't believe or pretend that you understand the ins and outs, the language, or the meaning of actions in that field. You do that, you will get screwed. And if you don't like the details of the contract, don't sign it; you may have to choose a different career, but is that really any worse than being miserable in the one you chose because you agreed to things you didn't want to do?

  46. Both? by CaptainSuperBoy · · Score: 2

    I believe the RIAA's position is that they will never fully eliminate copyright infringement, so they should recoup the 'losses' through a royalty on blank CDs. At the same time, you're still not allowed to copy that CD. That's still piracy. I agree with you. You can't have it both ways. This kind of thinking happens elsewhere - Globalscape CuteFTP used to be a good program, until they made it ad-ware AND cripple-ware. If it's showing ads it shouldn't bug me about registering, and it shouldn't expire. If I pay a surcharge on a blank CD, I better be able to put any damn music on it that I choose.

    The other problem is that the figures have never shown that 'music piracy' impacts industry profits. This is the fallacy of groups like the RIAA and BSA - you'll hear ridiculous figures, in the billions of dollars, of money that they 'lost' to 'piracy'. Back to reality, there's no way that college student is going out and buying the 800 albums that contain each of the MP3 singles in their Morpheus share. There's no way that company in Hong Kong is buying thousands of copies of Windows.

  47. Re:uhm... by radja · · Score: 2

    No, you're copying. stealing involves someone losing something. If I steal my friend's car, my friend doesn't have a car anymore. If I copy my friend's movie, nothing changes for my friend. The official legal term is piracy (well... it is in the Netherlands)

    //rdj

    --

    No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
    --Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
  48. In that case, deceiving students is wrong. by yerricde · · Score: 2

    And if you don't like the details of the contract, don't sign it; you may have to choose a different career

    I invest four years of my time and $100,000 in an education, and now do you say that you want me to throw it all away and work at Burger King because before I decided to go to school, nobody told me that the standard practice contracts in the field had such lopsided terms?

    If I don't like the types of offers I get for postdoctoral positions in my field, and I sign a contract and take a job anyway, I can't very well complain that the postdoctoral market is "unfair" and that by not signing I will have "no career".

    Yes, but if you wisely decide not to sign a contract, you have no job and no way of paying off your $200,000+ loan. Students fresh out of college may have to default on their student loans and screw up their credit for life because a job at McDonald's doesn't pay enough.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?