Interplay Targeted By Bioware-fare

corby writes: "Bioware Corp., developer of the highly anticipated multiplayer Dungeons & Dragons game Neverwinter Nights, is escalating the conflict with their troubled publisher Interplay. In September, they filed a lawsuit against the publisher, and now they have terminated their contract with Interplay to distribute Neverwinter Nights. The problem is, these guys need each other. The loss of Neverwinter Nights means that Interplay will lose out on substantial revenue from a surefire hit, but Interplay is apparently the only company with rights to distribute games under the AD&D license."

Comments

WTF is with that title?

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, eactly what does the article title have in common with the content?

Re:WTF is with that title?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Interplay" and, uh...

...the four spaces in the headline?

...they're both on Slashdot.

Yeah.

Re:WTF is with that title?

[McDrewbie]

Interplay, the game publisher, is being targeted (in a lawsuit) by Bioware (the game developer)-fare

Re:WTF is with that title?

[nyktos_ipaq]

Perhaps it makes more sense to say Bio-warfare??

Re:WTF is with that title?

[gameunit]

Dude, all I know is that NVIDIA released their new drives, download them at www.mygamer.com

Crap headline again?

[rosewood]

... yet another example of crappy headlines! That title was just used to feed off the current thoughts of bio-terrorism. Bah I say to yee.

Re:Crap headline again?

[CrimsonWraith]

I disaggree. I thought it was great, and being as I read the "Bioware" instead of biowar, like some ignorant fool with his head in the sand more worried about media hype, than actually learning to read, to me it made sense. My condolences fur your lack of proper schoolin'

Re:Crap headline again?

[Trepidity]

The headline was edited, probably in response to criticism such as this. It originally read "Interplay Targeted by Biowarfare."

Re:Crap headline again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah - I had to take a point hit just so I could point out the crap headline
Karma mod points - ill never understand them
NOR WILL I UNDERSTAND THIS WAIT 20 SECONDS CRAP! I can type a 3-4 line reply in sub 20 seconds but no - I get smak'd

Re:Crap headline again?

[Trepidity]

Not to mention that sometimes I type a 2-paragraph reply and it tells me there's still 17 seconds left in the 20 seconds wait...

Misleading headline

[SumDeusExMachina]

Please, in these times of terrorists sending anthrax through the US Postal system, it is considered at least poor taste to joke about game developers being hit by biological warfare.

Re:Misleading headline

[wrinkledshirt]

...it is considered at least poor taste to joke about game developers being hit by biological warfare.

Unless it's John Romero.

Bleah bleah bleah freedom of expression and all that...

Re:Misleading headline

[Chasuk]

Another obvious and trite comment posted by the humorless, and modded up by the same.

It took a quarter second for my eyes to move from the headline to the article, during which time I did not succumb to a panic attack or suffer overwhelming confusion.

Should I infer from your post that you believe most Slashdot readers are thin-skinned and stupid?

Re:Misleading headline

[dramaley]

Humor is not in poor taste, it is one mechanism humans use for dealing with stress.

Re:Misleading headline

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't read the original headline. They changed it, which kind of invalidates the parent comment, but it's what affected the change. The original headline was:

Interplay Targeted by Bio-warfare

Re:Misleading headline

[Trepidity]

I don't see how this is a troll. Michael posted a misleading headline, and misleadingly updating it without using the update: tag. This poster was merely pointing that out.

The original headline read "Interplay Targeted by Bio-Warfare."

Michael is also an idiot.

abusing +2 since 1998

Re:Misleading headline

[Chasuk]

I _did_ read the original headline. My comment wasn't flamebait.

No one should have taken offence at the original version, which I what I was trying to point out. Hell, no one should have even drawn attention to the original version, as the alleged insensitive humor was too obvious to merit any comment at all. But, hey, anything for moderation points.

Re:Misleading headline

[ian_vader]

Well... to be fair, Bioware is a Canadian company. Hmmm... this was more funny when I was thinking of it. Oh well, Canada is always funny.

Re:Misleading headline

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course, everyone that pointed out the original misleading headline is getting slapped by the moderators because they look like they're just idiots, can't read, and are trolling. Lovely. FUCK YOU MICHAEL! You ignorant chimp.

Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[Vardamir]

Surely it is legal to distribute an Open Source AD&D game?

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[vondo]

Surely it's not. AD&D is a trademark owned by Wizards of the Coast (formerly TSR).

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as you don't call it AD&D and don't completely copy AD&D, yes. Then it's just another OS RPG.

If you want to make an exact copy of AD&D and call it GNU/AD&D, expect to get sued. A lot.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[Anonymous Coward]

There is the d20/OGL (Open Gaming License) thingamabob... Do a google search, you'll find it.

However, I think a core component of it is that everything bearing the logo (with an exception of the recent WotC Star Wars rpg) must require access to the core rule books (The AD&D 3rd Edition PHB, DMG, and often MM).

The analogy would be open source projects that were linked to a non-free library. sure, you can download the software, but it won't work without the lib.

Note that there is a 'system reference document' that can somewhat fill in for the phb, dmg, and mm books, although it's not really meant for that. it's essentially a stripped down version of the ruleset with no background material or example text, just the bare rules.

Interesting concept, even if it is an attempt to make sure the core D&D rulebooks sell well.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[Drakin]

Likely not. The opensource d20 license AFAIK doesn't extend to products like computer games.

Big issue would be the setting anyway. The Forgotten Realms is not under the d20 license, so Wizards' lawyers could have a field day.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[matrix29]

Whatever happened to GURPS (bad acronym)?

Sword & Sorcery covers it. Just swap with synonyms and you've got a lawsuit-free game system.

Ergo:
Blades & Magic
Swords & Spells
Knights & Summoning
Kings & Casting
Princess & Necromancy
Might & Magic (oops, someone beat me to it).

Legally, they CAN use "Based on the AD&D role-playing system" as a blurb. Heck, there's plenty of fantasy-play systems which could be used in place of the AD&D layout. The DIABLO play system is gaining rapid popularity and it's not the only one.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. Bioware is going to spend Millions of dollars on development and then just give it away for free. I'm glad to see everyone is living in the real world here.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[Ondo]

Whatever happened to GURPS (bad acronym)?

It's around. They probably could get the rights to it. (Steve Jackson, owner of Steve Jackson Games, which publishes GURPS, has gone to the Computer Game Developer's conference wearing a shirt saying to ask him about licensing his games.) I personally consider it a vastly superior RPG to D&D.

However, I don't really think it is a valid option for Neverwinter Nights. It would require a lot of changes. I can't see a game that wouldn't allow you to multi-class to more than three classes easily being changed to a classless system with hundreds of skills.

Sword & Sorcery covers it. Just swap with synonyms and you've got a lawsuit-free game system.

I really, really doubt it. Fallout originally had a GURPS license, and after they dropped the license I believe SJ Games sued them to keep them from releasing it as GURPS with the serial numbers filed off.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[ian_vader]

Damn, now I wan't to play GURPS. And D&D. And fallout for that matter. Best break out the dice.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[hearingaid]

Actually, AD&D is a trademark owned by Hasbro. Remember who bought WotC.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[TheRevenant]

I don't think it would be that hard to redo the chargen (though redoing the combat system would be a lot harder).

Really though, GURPS is not the best system for this sort of game. GURPS is a far more realistic RPG than AD&D - it doesn't do the "mortal demigods with oodles of hitpoints" subgenre as well as AD&D.

More likely though is that they'll just file off the serial numbers and change the system just enough that it's not infringing copyright.

Re:Well, there is alwasys Open Source

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just side-step the AD&D trademark like writing a new Christmas story called "Randolf, the Ruby-nosed reindeer"

D&D Nitpicking

[taion]

AD&D is generally taken to refer to the second edition Dungeons & Dragons Rules.

Neverwinter Nights will be based on the 3rd edition D&D rules (D&D3e), which is different from AD&D.

A link to the 3rd Edition System Reference Document with all the core rules released to the Open Gaming Foundation (including Psionics!) may be found here.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

You my friend will never ever have sex.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[leucadiadude]

This thread reminded me of the Simpson's episode where Homer is in the fallout shelter when a nuetron bomb hits Sprinfield and at ground zero is the arrogantly cynical, obese, comics reading, DnD playing geek. At the last second the geek sighs and says "I've wasted my life." ***BOOM!!***

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[TMacPhail]

The reason they are commonly associated with the second edition rules is that the second edition rule set lasted so long. They still have claim over the third edition rule set as well.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

your comment reminds me of all the simpsons fans who are in the same category as DnD fans.

cheers

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[elandal]

I would say that AD&D refers to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, both first and second edition. Remember that Dungeons and Dragons usually refers to the D&D boxed sets edition, while theoretically some oldskoolers may use it to refer to the earlier pamphlets (I wouldn't call them "books" as such).

I haven't actually played AD&D 2nd ed but a few times, but have spent a lot of time using D&D boxed set / AD&D 1st ed hybrids.. I'm not oldskool enough to have played D&D original - I started with the boxed set edition (red box: Basic Set (levels 1-3, dungeons only); blue box: Expert Set (levels 4-14, outdoors); cyan box: Companion Set (levels 15-25, castles and stuff); black box: Master Set (levels 26-36, kingdoms and stuff); and was it gold box: Immortal Set?).

I have heard that the AD&D 3rd ed is pretty different from 2nd ed, though. But, AD&D 2nd ed definitely was not D&D second edition, as it's so that D&D still had Dave Arneson listed as authors, while AD&D first ed dropped him and had just Gygax. AD&D 2nd ed is considered by TSR (does the name still exist, or are they now WotC?) "a different game from the first edition" which allowed them to drop Gygax from the list of authors and, more importantly, stop paying royalties to Gygax as well as stop having to listen his whining. The same Gygax did to Arneson with AD&D originally..

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[isoteareth]

Who modded this to this up to 5, and why?

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha! I have successfully rolled a 20 against your curse!

You need to make a saving throw to see if the curse bounces back to you, hahahahaha!

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[osgeek]

Oh, it was worth the modding up just for sex response. Too funny.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[istartedi]

I Floccinaucinihilipilificate the word Floccinaucinihilipilification.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[canadian_right]

Close.
D&D was originally rules scattered through some war game magazines, then there was the D&D boxed set, which covered the rules up to third level.
AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons) was next, rules up to level 11 in great detail with general rules that covered up to level 24 or so. AD&D consolidated the rules from D&D plus many articles in gaming magazines (Dragon mainly). AD&D second edition was an attempt to make the rules more 'sensible', and at the same time bowdlerise the game somewhat (this was at the height of the "moral majority's" power in the freedom loving USA). Most people consider AD&D second edition to be very lame. At this time TSR also released, Oriental Adventures (good add on), and SpellJammer (magic space faring ships) as well as a slew of other add on books all for AD&D (first and second edition).

Just recently Wizards of the Coast (TSR is gone, due to real bad book sales one xmas goes one rumour) released "Dungeons and Dragons" - no mention of a third edition anywhere on the cover or inside, and its quite a different system from AD&D. Most people do call these current rules the "third edition". The new rules are more consistent, and just a little more intuitive. Being thoroughly 'old school' I still prefer to use the old AD&D rules, but my kids like the new books.
Just in case some of you haven't figured out the link between the two things, I have had sex.

so in brief:
Dungeons and Dragons - boxed set
AD&D - same rules, extended and all in one set of books.
AD&D 2nd edition - sucky update
D&D (un-officially the third edition) - good reworking of the game in three books.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Remember, folks: it is very uncool to like anything.

Do you feel passion about anything? Do you ever laugh and have a good time with friends? Then you're not alive.

Only nihilists are cool and living correctly, and despite that (or because of that) their lives are wasted on them. But I guess that's the whole point.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[mrm677]

Anyone can have sex, but the question is with whom?!!!

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Tenebrious1]

Not quite. D&D and AD&D developed along similiar lines. Many players back in the early 80s started with D&D and made the move to AD&D. Others went straight to AD&D. However, not all did. Some of us preferred the simpler D&D rules over the more complex and more confining AD&D rules. We preferred not to have to carry massive tomes around that explained every little detail, but rather to use their own imaginations and play a more freewheeling game. In 1978/79, the AD&D Players and DM Guides were released. In 1980, the D&D 2nd ed. Basic and Expert guides were released. In 1993, the 3rd ed. B & E. 1994- D&D Companion. 1995 D&D Masters, 1996 Immortals. AD&D 2nd Ed wasn't released until 1998. So you see, D&D was not just the "forerunner" of AD&D, but rather a similar but separate line of gaming.

I stopped playing D&D in 1994 and AD&D in 1996. By that time I'd moved on to Ultima and Bard's Tale. The big attraction was being able to play without having to coordinate everyone's schedule. It was easier when we were younger to get everyone together, but as people started dating, partying, and/or taking studies seriously, weekend-long sessions just didn't happen.

We old farts try to get together now and then, but with work, wives, kids, kid's activities, vacations, it takes weeks of advance planning to get something organized, if your gaming buddies live within 50 miles. Online gaming has been a boon to us with lives, in that we can put the kids to sleep, tell the wives to go do the "girl" thing, then hack and slash again with our ol' buds be they on the other side of the country.

I can't wait for NWN.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[ian_vader]

I'm sure you don't acutally care, but why does it matter. Just read instead of worrying about moderation.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got the history screwed up. While it's true that D&D started out scattered through wargaming magazines, there was a concerted effort to publish the rules as "Dungeons and Dragons" in a series of books.

Then in the late 70s, TSR started 2 separate efforts: the easy boxed set version for kids (D&D) and the adult version in the book set (AD&D). Basically the same rules, but the D&D version were considerably simplified, and the monsters were made much easier too (and had some system where you had to buy more books as you went up in level).

Both boxed D&D and AD&D 'shipped' at about the same time.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Anonymous Coward]

ha, brilliant, i used to play d&d and was a big simpsons fan but now i prefered to get laid instead...

later chumps.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[_ph1ux_]

"I stopped playing D&D in 1994 and AD&D in 1996. By that time I'd moved on to Ultima and Bard's Tale."

Really? - I played ultima and abrs tale in '84 - '86... (? I think that was the time frame - its been a while)

you were a little bit behind the times to be calling yourself an "old fart"

however we are doing a "blast from the past" D&D session next friday - however we are adding some updates (such as a LAN party in addidion) we paln to try out some old paper D&D - but have 10 machines ready with RTCW and other games jsut in case we decide we are too drunk/too old to do paper based D&D any longer....

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[tringstad]

Can I have a mountain Dew?

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[Mannerism]

Hehe, I love inside jokes as much as the next guy, but this one deserves to be shared.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[hearingaid]

Okay, well, you are curiously wrong.

D&D (the original) goes back, way back, before my time.

AD&D originally consisted of three hardcover books: the Player's Handbook, the Dungeonmaster's Guide, and the Monster Manual. The theory was that players could buy the PH and get everything they needed from it, while DMs would buy the DMG and MM for the rest. In actual fact, most everyone bought all three.

Slightly later, after the MM, the Fiend Folio was released. This was mostly a compilation of monsters from White Dwarf magazine. These four books made up AD&D as it was played in the early '80s.

Some people also used a book called Deities & Demigods. It sucked (more than D&D generally did) though so even people who had a copy didn't make much use of it.

In the mid-'80s, TSR started putting out more supplements. One of these supplements was Oriental Adventures. Another was Unearthed Arcana, which introduced a lot of rules changes; there were numerous others, like the Monster Manual II and plenty more I've forgotten (happily).

Second edition AD&D wasn't released until right around the end of the '80s. I've never played it but from what I've seen of it, it's based on Unearthed Arcana, only more so. But by the time it was released, Oriental Adventures (probably the best D&D book ever published) had gone out of print.

I'm not sure when SpellJammer came out precisely; I think it did come out around the same time as 2nd ed. More goofy stuff.

BTW, Wizards of the Coast is a division of Hasbro now. WotC bought TSR with the fortune they made from Magic: The Gathering, and then Hasbro swallowed them up.

Re:D&D Nitpicking

[kubrick]

Or with what.

:/

Would have been a more clever headline...

[Anonymous Coward]

Had they said 'Biowarefare'...

Re:Would have been a more clever headline...

[Trepidity]

it appears in response to criticism michael has changed the headline.

without using the update tag of course.

Bio Warfare = Irresponsible Headlining

[perdida]

I saunter into Slashdot and what do I see, a bio-warfare threat! I am alarmed and wait for the rest of the article to load.. looky here, it's a stupid lawsuit.

Slashdot's not a yellow journalism zone (or is it) and shouldn't use such titles. People have been dying from bio warfare.

Re:Bio Warfare = Irresponsible Headlining

[Anonymous Coward]

lawsuits are MORE dangerous than biowarfare.

Re:Bio Warfare = Irresponsible Headlining

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes people have been dying from bio-warfare.

Three of them.

More people died in traffic accidents in the time it took to type your post.

how irrelevant do you have to appear before you are satisfied.

To the 'legal' keylogging trojan on my pc I say " KILL G DUBYAH"

Re:Jesus chirst

[Dynastar454]

Despite how redundent this post is going to be in about 5 minutes, I have to add my 2 cents: I think Slashdot editors are actually pretty decent, despite their love for types, but that headline IS crazy.

Just great

[serps]

When Hasbro bought out Wizards of the Coast and sold off their rights to D&D computer games, you could see something like this eventually happening. Wizards had a 'Mastertools' program under development which was designed to remove all the bookkeeping tedium of handling a campaign. Once the license was transferred to Interplay, WotC had to gut the project to ensure compliance. I wish them all the best against Interplay.

Re:Just great

[cnladd]

Sorry, bud, but first NWN is NOT an AD&D game. The AD&D game is a completely separate line from the D&D (3e) game, and electronic rights for D&D were negotiated separately.

Also, Infogrames owns the rights to all computer-based tools and games. Interplay may have a license to publish D&D games, but then again, so does SSI (remember Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor? Released just a month or so ago...), and probably one or two other publishers. Owning the rights to something altogether and owning a license to something are two completely different things.

They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you haven't heard, the editing tools (the part of NWN most people thought was nifty) were already stripped from the Non-Windowes versions. Talk was made of including them later, but...

Stated reason was difficulty breaking them from an MS framework. Seems like a designer fubared by choosing that framework to begin with, huh?

Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cross-platform toolkits are generally ass. They're only suitable for when you HAVE to make things running across platforms. They're either compromised on all but one platform or all platforms equally. Not surprising, considering how monumental the task is. And before you scream "SDL!" realize that this is a game editor, not a game.

So no, I think it was no mistake. There's still no cross-platform API worth the trouble.

Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[LMCBoy]

As I understand it, they designed the Toolset with Borland C++ Builder. They were expecting Borland to have a Linux version of this product (not Kylix), but it never materialized. However, the fact that they used BCB means a Mac version was never in the works...

Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you compare sales for non-winx games versus winx games, you'd realize it's all about economics. This is a for profit company, and I am confident if non-winx users buy more games than winx users, then they'd spend more resources developing for that market.

I don't know now, but Bioware did promised to have a Mac, Linux, and maybe a BeOS version at their initial release. From what they said, I wonder how many other game companies would go out of their way to include non-winx versions at release.

Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[Anonymous Coward]

>If you compare sales for non-winx games versus winx games, you'd
>realize it's all about economics. This is a for profit company, and I
>am confident if non-winx users buy more games than winx users, then
>they'd spend more resources developing for that market.
>I don't know now, but Bioware did promised to have a Mac, Linux, and
>maybe a BeOS version at their initial release. From what they said, I
>wonder how many other game companies would go out of their way to
>include non-winx versions at release.
>
>
What are you talking about wanker? I buy games. They are for my PS2, since that's the only thing I play games on these days,but they are still are bought games. Oh. You are talking about buying lame PC-platform games. Forget it loser.

Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[ethereal]

Ah, but this is the game editor we're talking about. It's not about making money on sales, but on fostering a vibrant 3rd-party game world design scene. The relevant question is: is there a significant non-Windows level development scene? And I think, considering the number of D&D aficianados that use *nix, that you could say this is the case.

I find it surprising that they could figure out a way to make the game cross-platform, but not the editor. An editing tool doesn't have nearly the audio, video, and networking demands placed upon it that the game itself does; an editor just has to have some dialog boxes, various map displays, etc. If anything I would expect it would be easier to put together a cross-platform editor than it would be to create a cross-platform game.

Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[G00F]

Well, they might have looked at other things to, they wanted the cross platform of the game, #1 that sells, #2 its the most dependant. And furthermore, the tools are probly work well under wine not requiring any special modifications.

Re:They've already cut back Neverwinter Nights...

[Paladin128]

Just because they use a cross-platform compiler does not mean they are not developing platform specific code. They are probably heavilly using Win32 based components, which makes the code very un-portable. If they had decided to use Qt or some other cross-platform library, this would not have been a problem.

It sucks, but a bad decision early in the design product makes some things impossible. The fact that the game itself is playable on Linux, Windows, and Mac is a huge thing, however, and IMHO much more important than the toolkit. That shows good design from the beginning.

Bio Warfare?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know Slashdot (and every other news outlet) likes shocking headlines, but isn't that a bit much? Nobody's mailing them anthrax. This is just companies doing what companies do best: being stupid.

hmm.

[loraksus]

They need each other, they don't want to play with each other.
What are we gonna say?
Fuck 'em - they deserve each other, though it would be nice to see the game come out. I hate it when adults act like children, damn....

How many people on /. play DND??

[DAldredge]

How many people on /. play DND?

Re:How many people on /. play DND??

[Anonymous Coward]

342

Re:How many people on /. play DND??

[Anonymous Coward]

Better make that 343.

Re:How many people on /. play DND??

[Anonymous Coward]

n, where n is an integer between 0 and N.

Title

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes! Finally someone decided to get them back for Total Recall for the NES!

Oh.. you mean they didn't get killed?

Crap.

MasterTools

[taion]

MasterTools has not been "gutted". It's still in active development, and seems to be on track for release in the first quarter of 2002.

In fact, Ryan Dancey posted updated info regarding the project just two days ago on the WotC Message Boards.

Re:MasterTools

[DAldredge]

MasterTools HAS been gutted. They have removed the ability to play DnD online over the internet among other things (very limited prestige class support, no support at launch for anything other than the PHB, DMG and MM. I know they promise support for the add ons in the future but look how they support the Forgotten Realms Atlas, the have patch 3 for it but they haven't released it yet because the web team at WoTC won't be able to add a link to is before the end of the YEAR.)

Re:MasterTools

[AlterEd]

They have removed the ability to play DnD online over the internet

Whoopeedoo. MasterTools wasn't originally conceived as a game. It was only ever supposed to be a set of tools for F2F gaming management. Just because some yahoo at WotC thought it'd be "neat" if you could play online doesn't mean it was a good idea or even something Wizards/Fluid *ever* had any legal right to do.

As far as the functionality of the program being so limited, chalk that one up to the yahoos at WotC wasting Fluid's time with feature bloat. Now they've come too far to scrap the project, but Hasbro isn't going to budget any more money for development unless and until they see this as a profitable endeavor. *IF* and only if people actually buy MT, then it'll be supported and expanded. As it is, they're way late on delivering this to the marketplace.

Had they focused on the original concept, not only would the thing be out by now, it'd be an awesome utility.

Re:MasterTools

[DAldredge]

I am not talking about playing the computer I am talking about the original stated goal of having the ability to pay DnD 3e over the net with a Human DM and Human players.

Something like OpenRPG (OpenRpg.Org) but with better graphics.

Re:MasterTools

[AlterEd]

I am not talking about playing the computer

No! Really?

I am talking about the original stated goal of having the ability to pay DnD 3e over the net with a Human DM and Human players.

That was NEVER supposed to be what MasterTools was for. Wizards never had the rights to develop that sort of program.

Besides, there's no reason why you couldn't do 3e over the net with MT the way it was originally conceived and IRC.

Re:MasterTools

[DAldredge]

They why was that feature green lighted, developed and advertised as a feature???

As to playing it over the net as is, no you cant. The combat features will not be network aware.

Re:MasterTools

[AlterEd]

They why was that feature green lighted, developed and advertised as a feature???

Like I said in my previous post, some yahoo at WotC thought it'd be "neat".
Ain't you never heard of mission creep?

Re:MasterTools

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, since Wizards of the Coast bought TSR and all the D&D intellectual property, why WOULDN'T they be "allowed" to make that kind of a product?

Re:MasterTools

[AlterEd]

Because Hasbro bought Wizards, and shortly thereafter sold all of their electronic games rights (which now included the D&D titles) to Infogrames.

Open Gaming Foundationg

[DAldredge]

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org
http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html

The second link is to the SYSTEM REFERENCE DOCUMENT for D20/DnD. It contain's most of the content from the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Monsters Manual I, and the Psionics Handbook.

Re:Open Gaming Foundationg

[taion]

To add to this, the license under which the D20 SRD has been released is the Open Gaming License, available here on the OGF site.

This license gives fairly broad rights to most people willing to build upon the d20 ruleset, almost certainly including non-commercial games, but IANAL, so don't take my word on it.

Re:Open Gaming Foundationg

[Anonymous Coward]

The OGL Licence strictly forbids the creation of Interactive Software (games).

Wizards = Publisher?

[Cow4263]

Was this agreement maid pre-Wizard or back in the TSR days? If it was made back with TSR, then it makes sense (TSR was having troubles finacaliy if I recall). But nowadays, I don't see why Wizards couldn't just publish it themselves. I'd be very suprised if they didn't already have a few published titles and more so if they couldn't handle this one.

Penny Arcade's take on it...

[hiryuu]

Here.

I got a giggle out of it, at least...

Re:Penny Arcade's take on it...

[the_argent]

Actually, I thought megatokyo's was better...
http://www.megatoyko.com

argent

Licenced properties...

[Anonymous Coward]

Aw, man - that's a pretty shitty state of affairs. But I suppose it does graphically illustrate why developing products based on licenced properties is generally a Bad Thing (or at least something to be done with extreme care) for any game developer. (Being someone who has been bitten by having a licence holder suddenly refuse to let us release our finished game because of Sony's attitude to all things not Playstation 2).

Re:Licenced properties...

[aka-ed]

Hey, I was salivatin' for "Hired Guns" back in 99. Got a copy you can "release" to the newsgroups?

Dungeons and Dragons

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares, those games are for nerds and satanists.

Re:Dungeons and Dragons

[Anonymous Coward]

someone mod this up! Chick's tracts are hilarious.

Re:Dungeons and Dragons

[matrix29]

Even more hilarious are the parodies of Jack Chick
http://www.lunarpages.com/darkdungeons/

Re:Dungeons and Dragons

[abolith]

holy SH!T that is funny stuff. another truly uninformed opinion.

Re:Dungeons and Dragons

[androman]

I like this parody even better.

Re:Dungeons and Dragons

[_Sprocket_]

Scott Kurtz of PvP fame write a nice rant followed by his own parody of this infamous work. I find it interesting considering Kurtz mentions his Christian beliefs on occasion (while still supporting gaming, including the dice-and-paper variety... or at least he did at the time - his roleplay link is no longer advertised). Its a nice counterpoint to Chick and the individuals he links to.

Re:Dungeons and Dragons

[Anonymous Coward]

What is uninformed about it? They take stuff to the extreme, but the only way to salvation IS through the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the truth. D&D Is just a stupid game. Only the Lord is real.

Re:Dungeons and Dragons

[WWWWolf]

Of course, how can we forget the nice, kind words on the same subject? =)

Whoa there!

[HunterZ]

Back that truck up, slick! Check this out:
http://www.poolofradiance.com/

I don't see any mention of Interplay or Bioware there, yet it's an AD&D computer game. Would anyone care to explain?

Re:Whoa there!

[Ondo]

Interplay's license is not exclusive. From Gamespot's history of AD&D ( http://www.gamespot.com/features/history_add/ )

At this year's E3, it was announced that Mindscape, the parent company of SSI and now a division of Mattel, had reclaimed the license, and that the original developers of Pool of Radiance would now develop a sequel.

Note that this was written years ago.

Re:Whoa there!

[elandal]

Just means that Interplay is not the only company to hold license for AD&D computer games.

Pool of Radiance is a kind of a sequel to the old SSI gold box series (Pool of Radiance, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness) which was set in Phlan, then the surroundings, in the end covering the Moonsea area with visits to Myth Drannor, outer planes, thwarting plots to revive a god and so on. The whole SSI series, including other AD&D licensed games like the Eye of Beholder series, are available as "The Forgotten Realms Archive", in three boxes. The games look pretty awful by current standards, but were important milestones on the CRPG timeline.

Re:Whoa there!

[Anonymous Coward]

What amazes me is that the gameplay in these older games is STILL far superior to the mindless dungeon-hack games we have now (Diablo 1+2, the new Pool, Baldur's Gate to a lesser extent, etc...)

Re:Whoa there!

[elandal]

Haven't tried the new Pool, but Baldur's Gate was IMHO better than the old SSI games.
However, the best CRPGs to date have been Planescape: Torment and Fallout 2. Both allow for different activities in a level that makes You forget that it's still linear. Note that the old (A)D&D modules were linear, too, so CRPGs being linear is just natural progression. It'd be too hard to write it otherwise.

Re:Whoa there!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the licence for the Pool of Radiance title.

Re:Whoa there!

[Ondo]

That's the licence for the Pool of Radiance title.

Which uses D&D3e.

Slashdot = Misinformation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again slashdot amazes me with the ability not to be able to post reliable or good information.

Bioware CAN publish titles under AD&D license, interplay has been rideing the "bioware" wave for over a year now. Bioware has every damn right to terminate their contract, especially since Interplay VIOLATED the terms of it.

The game is slated to be released Mar 2002, and on another note, I submited this story on wednesday.

I have posted anonymusly in order to protect myself and other sources.

Re:Slashdot = Misinformation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Interplay owns the Neverwinter Nights IP, not bioware, you melodramatic retard. It just so happens that infogrames will be publishing it, but most likely under a different name. Infogrames can do this because it owns the AD&D computer/interactive license now. Interesting huh?

Re:Slashdot = Misinformation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually BioWare owns the Neverwinter Nights IP. It also owns the IP of the two Baldur's Gate games. Interplay even had to license the game engine that BioWare made for Baldur's Gate to make other games with it. In short, unlike so many developer/publisher relationships, BioWare is not an Interplay lacky. They are an independant developer with their own direct ties to, and contracts with, Wizards/TSR.

And as luck would have it, BioWare, not Interplay has the publishing rights to NWN. So they're free to publish it themselves or peddle it to another publisher.

So basically it's a non-story.

Someone should tell Infogrames

[AlterEd]

Infogrames bought Hasbro Interactive and now has publishing rights to all present and future Hasbro electronic games. Previous agreements notwithstanding, natch.

If Bioware can't hash things out with Interplay, I'm sure they can get a deal with Infogrames.

Re:Someone should tell Infogrames

[Anonymous Coward]

If Bioware can't hash things out with Interplay, I'm sure they can get a deal with Infogrames.

And as for Interplay's "exclusive" rights, all Bioware needs to do is declare the game done and when Interplay doesn't deliver, well, can anyone say "breach of contract"? [referring to the one with (TSR|WotC|Hasbro|Infogrames)]

Peace.

Jeez..

[Anonymous Coward]

bunch of pimply-faced dorks getting worked up over a stupid game. Don't you people have lives at all?

Re:Jeez..

[HunterZ]

Bunch of wart-faced trolls getting worked up over a bunch of "pimply-faced dorks". Don't YOU people have lives at all?

Re:Jeez..

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey! I'll have you know this dork doesn't have acne!

Re:Jeez..

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny -- the idea of you having sex with a woman, that is.

Re:Jeez..

[dorward]

The Trolls won't once my Acid Arrows have dealt with them.

Lol!

[Shade, The]

This definately needs mod'ing up! I can't stop laughing now. Oh, where for art a moderator when one is needed? :)

plse lren two spel beter. Eye kant udestnd u.

[DAldredge]

plse lren two spel beter. Eye kant udestnd u

Exclusive Rights?

[mESSDan]

BALDUR'S GATE: © 1998 BioWare Corp. All Rights Reserved. Baldur's Gate, Forgotten Realms, the Forgotten Realms logo, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, the AD&D logo, and the TSR logo are trademarks of TSR, Inc., a subsidiary of Wizards of the Coast, Inc, and are used by Interplay under license. All Rights Reserved. Interplay, the Interplay logo, Black Isle Studios, the Black Isle Studios logo, and "By Gamers, For Gamers." are trademarks of Interplay Productions. All Rights Reserved. The BioWare logo is the trademark of BioWare Corp. All Rights Reserved. Dolby, the Dolby Surround Logo and the double-D symbols are trademarks of Dolby Laboratories Licensing Corporation. All Rights Reserved. Exclusively licensed and distributed by Interplay Productions. All other trademarks and copyrights are the property of their respective owners.

I stole this from the link in the article. The problem is, the second to last line is all that indicates "Exclusively licensed" (Emphasis mine), and it doesn't indicate what it pertains to.

The part that does mention AD&D indicates that it is being used under license, no mention of exclusivity.

Can anyone clear this up?

Re:Exclusive Rights?

[Anonymous Coward]

It pertains to distribution rights of BG, and doesn't have anything to do with AD&D licensing.

Re:Exclusive Rights?

[Jaysyn]

Slightly OT... go to www.teambg.com for great addons & mods for Baldur's Gate I & II

Jaysyn

Re:Exclusive Rights?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it means that Interplay is the only company making CDs, putting them in boxes, and sending to retailer.

That means if Bioware wants to terminate the contract, or make Interplay's license non-exclusive, it can. Of course, it also means that Interplay will probably want/need some extra lubrication to go along with that...

Agh

[professortomoe]

I hope they can find a good pub. because I've been waiting for Neverwinter Nights for a hella long time. Oh, and Bioware, if you don't get this game published, damn you.

thats funny

[Anonymous Coward]

considering that myself and everyone of my other buddies interested in this are combat veterans, mostly Marines, the others are various Special Forces (hey, Marines ARE special forces)

Now what?

[dmomo]

Does this mean that I am going to have to get a life? Things are so much easier when you can pretend to have a life, and not have to leave the house!(dmagoo steps outside.. sees a big burning thing in the sky and runs back in, Frightenend.)

Kidding aside, it's a shame that things are not going well. The game has great potential. I suppose I will have to stick to Diablo II for my fix! Perhaps Starwars Galaxies will cater to our needs, even though I anticipate a world with a disproportionate number of Bouty Hunters and Jedi's.

Keep your hopes up

[Otik2]

According to Gamespot [gamespot.com] "Despite the announcement, the developer plans to release the Dungeons & Dragons game on schedule in early 2002." Still, I'm a bit worried. I think NWN has a huge potential, as it allows players to both play a fun MMORPG and allow the more hardcore players to create and play their own D&D adventure - like these [www.nwdl.net] people. I think a NWN Dragonlance will be great, so I really hope Bioware can finish it.

Re:Keep your hopes up

[arthurh3535]

Neverwinternights is *not* supposed to be a MMORPG. It was never designed or concepted to do so. It's meant for a much smaller, *interactively* controlled gaming experience.

It can be run in single player mode no problem, but it is aimed at parties between 4-8 with a Dungeon Master.

D&D geek and proud of it.

Of course I'm not playing D&D right now, but I'm *going* to be when this game comes out.

more hmmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone steals something from me and in my attempt to get it back in a rational and legal manner it gets slowly dragged across the litigation floor, then is it still me who is included in the 'acting like children'?

I guess in this case I am supposed to just let them steal from me? As in not HONOR a professional and ADULT contract. Interplay knew damn well what they were doing. This was no accident, but rather one of those "you can do anything until you are either caught and punished or caught and the PR dropout kills your bottom line" sort of like politicians.

Interplay- "By gamers, For gamers" Well, actually to be fair, Interplay was once a fine example of how to run a great gaming company and this slogan was true. However it is now, "Interplay, By executives, marketers, lawyers and managers... For executives, marketers, lawyers and managers. we take the engineer out of Engineering, well, we shit on all our actual REVENUE PRODUCING WORKERS, but we sure slap each other on the back... hey, did I ever tell you on my new cell phone on my laptop what my latest Golf score was? Hey, is that a new watch?..."

but I guess that wouldn't fit as well so they kept the old one. Like EA (and all of its gobbled up fodder dev studios) and Sierra, Interplay has decided to ignore common sense and history and will gladly beat its collective executive heads into a spiked steel wall. Good job guys! Great forward thinking! I am betting you probably have an average of about 3 staff meetings a week, produce more spread sheets and powerpoint slides than WORK, and consider the actual business of making games as bottom on the priority list (with more meetings, memos, messages, documents, teleconferances and other crap up top)

Hear that everyone! That is three sounds combined into a chorus in the distance! One is Interplay choking on its own vomitous bureacratic red tape, one is the mass exedus of all your workers (including dev and support studios) and the other sound is the steam locomotive of independant studios that wish to make good games and logically understand that their quality approach will naturally bring great rewards as a consequence... and that train is gonna run you over!

Anyone know what Interplays ratio of workers to non workers is (anyone who does not actively create, document and qa the actual products). Managers are necessary... but when did they move from a member of the team to a heirarchically higher echelon that is bloated and innefficient to the point of breaking the organizations under their own weight? DOT BOMB? More like executive bomb. Watch and learn America! If you continue this downward spiral of throwing more red tape and management at problems you will only destroy yourselves

amen

[Anonymous Coward]

regardless of personal preference of OS's, it is a foolish decision to ever design a non-abstracted and modular framework today. Using propietary messaging and rendering protocols is only for a quick fix solution. To be scalable and maintainable in the long run, you have gotta design in a open fashion. If from there you have one instance of a windows design, then fine. You will not have to back up and reinvent the wheel to make a crossplatform version (or other platform specific version).

The other side of this, is that the open source community needs to work harder towards having consistent and uniform architectures and coding practices. Otherwise it is only making the very same mistake as that other rather large software company we all love and adore!

Re:Not Me!

[Anonymous Coward]

Better things to do? Like what? Sit around all day posting garbage to slashdot?

Maybe you should go throw around some 27-sided dice with compufags. Then at least you'd be out of your house interacting with real people, not your slashdot troll fantasy world that you live in.

Look at the copyrights page

[hrieke]

You'll see a few intresting titles / names, does anyone know what these were licensed for?
* Bill Watterson - Calvin and Hobbes - This one I really don't understand, Bill didn't license anyone C&H...

* Peter Townhend - Tommy
* Mario, Luigi, The Princess, Yoshi and Koopa are trademarks of Nintendo of America, Inc
* Rodney Dangerfield Copyright © 1997 Dangerfield Entertainment
* Statistics provided by STATS, Inc. © 1998. All rights reserved

Makes you wonder what these chacters are used in / licensed for...

Interplay does not have any D&D rights

[WhyMe]

Infogrames(a french company) owns the rights to D&D computer games. Once Interplay was bought by Titus (another french company) it was obivous things were going to get ugly. I still think NWN will get released.

no life dorks

[Anonymous Coward]

...and what website are you reading at the moment?

D&D is not enough

[fm6]

D&D software in itself is not that big a thing. Been around for years. Rogue (the original version of Nethack) was an early example. Though Michael Toy had to change the names of the monsters after TSR reminded him that he didn't have a license to use them.

Put Baldur's Gate and Rogue side by side, and you see that Bioware has done more than just computerize D&D. They've greatly enhanced the user experience with sophisticated interaction, simulation, and non-player character engine. And they've also created a story that is sophisticated enough to engage but simple enough to be managed by a "Dungeon Master" that's just a piece of software, and thus has no ability to improvise. That last is not technically sophisticated, but it's what impresses me the most.

Re:D&D is not enough

[HiThere]

I had thought Rogue was around before TSR was. My feeling is that they had someone copyright or trademark them (the monsters, the games), and then went after those who were already using the terms. That's certainly the story of things that I heard in the --- was it the 70's? (It was certainly before personal computers were big, and I think it was during the time of the Apple ][, but that leaves a lot of vagueness. Still, I heard of it as something that had been happening (in sourthern California). Though I admit that I didn't know about Rogue then. And though Wizardry was doing well, the story was basically about how they were pre-empting the material from the un-organized D&D players. Many people were quite conflicted ... happy to have it in published books, but quite upset that the right to the monsters had been copyrighted by someone who hadn't been at all involved in the creation of the beasts.

Be ye warned! This has happened before. This will happen again. This is why the GPL is important. Analogous licenses should be created for other fields, whereever people start group creations. If they are not created, then some (you choose the perjorative term) will steal them. And then forbid the original creators from using their own creations. Sometimes I feel that such folk deserve neither mercy nor life. But acknowledging that they exist is the first step toward dealing with them. The GPL attempts to eliminate their habitat, which is certainly the preferred approach.
.

OpenRPG

[taion]

The correct address for OpenRPG is http://www.openrpg.com, not openrpg.org. In any event, OpenRPG is a generalized Roleplaying system, not something specially tailored to D&D 3e, so its capacities for D&D3e are less than what MT possibly would have had.

I don't think that means they were licensed..

[mindstrm]

That's just a declaration of who owns copyright to things seen on the site.

Re:Black isle tried that

[Harlockjds]

Black Isle (which is related to Bioware) tried to use GURPS (it was to be the foundation for Fallout) but Steve Jackson games were apparently too much of a pain in the ass to deal with so they striped out the gurps system and created their own.

That sucks

[WickedClean]

I hope Bioware and Interplay can make friends out of this and get the game out. The remake of Pool of Radiance sucked because of it's technical problems. Damn big business software!

Re:That sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Technical problems weren't the only bane of that game. It's so damn repetitive at the beginning, it's almost enough to make you stop playing.

You'd think that if they're going to force you to explore miles and miles of dungeon, they could make SOME of it unique and interesting? And vary the monsters a bit? I got real tired of fighting wave after wave of skeletons, orcs, or lizardmen.

the D&D NAME and LOGO licensed

[delong]

The legalese merely states that D&D, the D&D logo, etc. are property of Wizards and Hasbro blah blah and Interplay is using them under license from the trademark owners. Interplay absolutely does NOT have exclusive rights to publish D&D electronic games.

Derek

Ok, right from the Bioware forums...

[Drakin]

Regarding our recent announcement of Neverwinter Nights contract termination with Interplay, we can't comment on this, except to say that BioWare is looking forward to releasing Neverwinter Nights on schedule, early in 2002. Development at BioWare is continuing on both Neverwinter Nights and Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic as well as on other as yet unannounced projects."

I'm thinking people are jumping the gun.

Not just another headline complaint...

[BelDion]

Everybody's complaining and, dare I say it, whining about the headline being misleading...

Thank (insert favorite deity here) it isn't! Something interesting for a change! Had enough of this terrorism business.

On a more related note, can't wait for NWN! :)

Think before speaking...

[unicorn]

How does releasing the product as a non-commercial, open source game, suddenly make it legal to violate the trademarks, and copyrights that Hasbro holds on the AD&D gaming system?

Just because you're not charging for it, doesn't mean you can steal someone elses works to include. Just try and include some Metallica MP3's, in an open source projet of some sort, and see how well that flies.

Re:Think before speaking...

[Discopete]

AFAI(K-R), the D20 license allows gamers and gaming companies to create works derived from D&D
(which is not AD&D anymore, it's D&D. WOTC/Hasbro decided to EOL the AD&D title) without threat of legal actions,
as long as the D20 license document is displayed somewhere (on books, normally the back page).

Just put the license on the back page of the game manual and you're set.

WOTC, upon purchasing TSR had sent out letters to what they considered "core" gamers, primarily via the E-Lists, asking them what they wanted to see. The single most overwhelming response was "Bring Greyhawk back!"
the second largest response was "Kill off your restrictive on-line policies", which is how the D20 license was born. You'll need to check WOTC's web site to read the D20 license.

Special Forces?

[Anonymous Coward]

Special Forces?

Do Marines get to ride the short bus to the war?

Re:Not Me!

[Anonymous Coward]

Can one really construct a platonic solid that has 27 sides? I'm trying to imagine a 27-sided die and failing. Maybe you could post a link to a picture?

Thanks,
a geek (but one who did just get laid)

License? Fuck that

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need a fucking license to use the AD&D ruleset, because it's *not patented*. You can't copyright a set of rules. And who cares about the worlds? Mostly, they're an attempt to be as generic as possible...

Re:Black isle tried that

[Anonymous Coward]

Black Isles isn't related to bioware you idiot. Too many geeks here dont know jack. Black Isles is the rpg division at Interplay. It has no association with Bioware except for Interplay stickin the black isles logo on the all Interplay published internal/externally developed rpgs

Re:Black isle tried that

[sigmund]

Black Isle isn't so much affiliated with BioWare... Black Isle is a division of Interplay.

-JacobC

Interplay

[Anonymous Coward]

Interplay are stupid, they deserve to die. The once great software house has lost the plot.

My solution

[Y-Crate]

How about makers of MMORPGs come up with something remotely new and inventive? Stop dragging out the Dungeons and Dragons license for the 50,000th time. You know, there are some rather interesting things you could come up with.

Re:My solution

[fizban]

Bioware has always used D&D for their Role-Playing games. There's nothing wrong with it. It allows them to use an already existing rule-base with tons of fans, and then spend most of their time developing good graphics and gameplay to make the title actually worth purchasing. Every other person/company who tries to do "something different" ends up with a crappy, half-baked plotline and mediocre gameplay. New and Inventive isn't really that easy, you know.

Re:My solution

[PsyQ]

Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment are D&D, yes, but they are NOT MMORPGs. Even though I believe "MMORPG" is an artificial term coined by some marketing idiot at Sony Online Entertainment, that doesn't nullify its meaning.

If you want an ORIGINAL roleplaying game, play Gothic. It should be released in the English speaking territories about now. I've been playing it for over 6 months and it's still fun :)

(Oh, and a sequel should be coming soon)

Cry me a river!

[Anonymous Coward]

Eat my ass, you humorless simp. Somewhere a violin is playing for your injured spirit...

Good call...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot lacks wang. Let's go there instead.

Re:Not Me!

[ian_vader]

I'd guess not, but I've seen some 34sided dice. Not really sure what use they are, but they were nifty.

Re:nihilists

[TH4L35]

Yes. Remember, folks: it is very uncool to like anything.

Do you feel passion about anything? Do you ever laugh and have a good time with friends? Then you're not alive.

Only nihilists are cool and living correctly, and despite that (or because of that) their lives are wasted on them. But I guess that's the whole point.

lol, nice nihilist definition. wish i had a mod point for ya.

Neverwinter Nights isn't an MMORPG.

[Anonymous Coward]

Neverwinter Nights isn't an MMORPG. If you knew anything about the game, you'd know that Bioware is designing it to emulate tabletop games first. Massive Online Roleplaying wasn't even intended originally.

Re:Neverwinter Nights isn't an MMORPG.

[SamSpectre]

Ummm... You can play it online and with up to 64 people on a server. Sounds like a MMORPG to me, though smaller than EQ, DAoC, AC, etc...

Re:Neverwinter Nights isn't an MMORPG.

[JASegler]

I think most people would have a problem with the first M.. You know the Massively part.

MMORPG
Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

vs

MORPG
Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

Most people don't consider 64 people Massively.
Empire and Muds (Mush/Muck/Mage/Diku/LPMUD/MudOS/etc) could all support that many people. I don't ever remember anyone calling any of those MMORPG.

-Jerry

Please note:

[Krapangor]

This is not the article about the museum TLDs.

All gamers should click that link

[Von Rex]

Wow. What a great link. I've read Chick's stuff before, but that's probably the most insane one I've ever seen. I'll definitely post it to my gaming group.

Re:Bio Warfare? read the headline again

[Anonymous Coward]

ok moron, read what it says again, if it still looks the same to you, go take reading lessions.

Try reading a bit... it helps...

[Cebu]

If no one has noticed, and I'm certain no one here who has posted has -- Interplay owns the exclusive computer game license to Forgotten Realms, not D&D 2nd or 3rd Edition. So Bioware can either get Interplay's nod to publish the game with someone else, make the game not Forgotten Realms, or the multitude of other options they have.

Interplay SUCKS! Period.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think its wonderful that Bioware has finally figured out what a bunch of @#$@# those guys at Interplay are. I cannot stand their 'for gamers by gamers' slogan. I'm not going to get into how they are such a crappy company, because the problems they have are also shared by Sierra, Eidos, and just about every other publisher out there! It basicly gets down to corporate greed.

Re:Black isle tried that

[Harlockjds]

DOH sorry about that

Well the article isn't exactly correct....

[Sir_Urza]

There are 2 other companies that could publish Neverwinter Nights...

Ubisoft still has a license for another game.
Infogrames owns the rights to all Electronic Hasbro Properties for the next 15 years.

So it's not like BioWare is without a publisher..

As for the Open Gaming License.. it could be used. But BioWare would have to remove ALL Forgotten Realms references from the game since Forgotten Realms doesn't qualify as Open Content under the Open Content License of the Open Gaming License. (Hows that for confusing?)

What happens to customers?

[timerider]

I already placed an order for NWN with tuxgames...

grah

Re:Dungeons and Dragons - The Christian Version!

[BrynM]

The NEW Advanced Angels and Saviours! The only Christian Role Playing Game! (from the makers of Advanced Path to Allah!)

Leading Brother:"Great! You have enough experience points for a level 12 cleric. Your character is a 'Prophet of Christianity'!"

Player:"Cool! My 'Water to Wine' spell worked! The Roman gaurds see the light of God! I'm going to cast 'Manna From Heaven' on the Roman governor now!"

Leading Brother:"OK. Roll the twenty sided... You'll need at least a 15"

{Player rolls a 1}

Leading Brother:"The spell fails and they crucify you!"

Player:"Doh!"

If this offends anyone, oh well. Consider it my revenge for six years of trying to play D&D at catholic school.

One word SHAREWARE

[t0qer]

Why doesn't bioware just distribute it via shareware? It worked for doom and wolfenstien. Like a dope dealer, first hit is free, second one is gonna cost ya.

Actually...

[InThane]

it wasn't Interplay that got it nixed - it was Infogrammes and Hasbro's deal. Interplay had nothing to do with that.

not just Bioware, either

[Anonymous Coward]

UbiSoft published Pool of Radiance which came out just recently (developer was SSI and Stormfront Studios).

Bioware isn't stupid. If they NEEDED Interplay they would've worked something out with them. Obviously, however, they don't.

Frankly, I'm Glad

[Anal Surprise]

No, this isn't flamebait. I'm glad that they might get out of the AD&D business, and back to writing original, interesting, and easy-to-use adventures. Baldur's Gate was ok, but it was too tied to what it tried to reproduce -- AD&D, without going all the way.

Fallout was excellent because it was a role-playing game, but it wasn't any RPG you'd ever seen, short of pen-and-paper. What made Fallout great were the multiple conversation paths and the options you'd get, based on how knowledable or personable you were. It also helped that it was structured, but not overwhelmingly linear.

Yes, it had flaws, but the gameplay more than made up for it, and that's what I want to see more of.

What, yet another 14 year old know-all?

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose 3rd Edition rules ill generally be referred to as D&DfR, Dungeons and Dragons for Retards, based on what I've seen. I could be wrong though. What do I know, I've only been playing D&D since 1975...

More D&D Nitpicking

[Khopesh]

corby stated that "Interplay is apparently the only company with rights to distribute games under the AD&D license" while this is only partially true.

I'm pretty sure that Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro split the Dungeons and Dragons lines into several different developers' hands. Interplay owns only Forgotten Realms (which includes the Baldurs Gate games, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights) and Planescape.

Due to a grandfather clause, SSI (the company to first publish D&D games, including Eye of the Beholder, Shattered Lands, Menzoberranzan, Strahd's Possession) can still produce Forgotten Realms games. They publish through Mattel, NOT Interplay. Take a look at the Pool of Radiance site for more information. Oh, and Pool of Radiance will also use the D&D 3rd Edition rules (and is the first and only video/computer game out currently to do so).

I believe that other companies (not Interplay) have rights to other D&D worlds, such as Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Birthright (Sierra owned this one a few years ago but the line may be dead), and Greyhawk.

ownership

[Khopesh]

BTW, Wizards of the Coast is a division of Hasbro now. WotC bought TSR with the fortune they made from Magic: The Gathering, and then Hasbro swallowed them up.

oop. MTG didn't give too much money to wotc (not enough to buy the near-bankrupt TSR and survive with a chance of success). It was Pokemon and WotC's alliance with Nintendo that raked in the cash. It was Pokemon that Hasbro bought WOtC for. Magic and D&D were just "bonuses" ... Hasbro does that:

Hasbro bought Microprose to get into the computer game industry, Avalon Hill was suing over the rights to the name of competing games called "Civilization" - so Hasbro just bought Avalon Hill rather than fight them. The entire development team at AH was scrapped as was almost the entire product line (except, of course, Diplomacy).

here's a fun fact for ya: Wizards of the Coast made unofficial D&D accessories (and greetings cards) before picking up a certain Richard Garfield and introducing the world to Magic. ...WotC's staff have always been enamored with D Peter Adkinson, CEO, is supposedly a really good Dungeon Master. The world he created had a group of wizards who called themselves the "Wizards of the Coast."

Re:ownership

[Anonymous Coward]

Wizards of the Coast made unofficial D&D accessories

Am I the only one who really wanted to see the other books in the planned series? The "Primal Order" books were really cool and there was talk of the Economic Order, the Military Order, and others whhch explored the possibilities of various fantasy worlds. All gone once Magic hit.

With this many acronyms and abbreviations...

[Anonymous Coward]

You might have an entirely new language!
AFAI(K-R) ..D20... D&D...AD&D ... WOTC...EOL