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Ultimate TV (UTV) Hard Drive Upgrade

Posted by timothy on from the geniuses-meet-the-idiot-box dept.

BubbaJoeBob writes: "I just read this thread over at the AVSForum that jeffm7 was able to upgrade his UTV 40GB drive to a WD 100GB drive. Other users are reporting that they were also successful using the WD 120GB drive." And aside from ending up with an apparently useless original drive, this sounds much less painful and involved than various homebrewed TiVO upgrades; according to posters on this thread, it's nearly plug-and-play (with a necessary download step in the middle).

112 comments

  1. fr0st pist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    oh my it must be winter - another fr0st pist!

  2. 1st by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I hope...

  3. I have nothing to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    But since someone already got first post there's nothing else to do with this story unless I read the article.

  4. slashdotted alredy? by vrmlknight · · Score: 0

    is that link correct or is it slashdotted onlu minutes in to its posting?

    --
    This must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
    1. Re:slashdotted alredy? by Tyger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Works fine here. Although this link is a little shorter and has what appears to be a session ID removed.

  5. Upgrade comparison... by Tyger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The UTV upgrade is, unsurprisingly, not unlike the DishPlayer upgrade. In fact, it is pretty much the same. Surprised this was not found earlier, unless it is drive specific, and early attempts tried the wrong drive type.

    The upgrade itself is pretty painless. I do not have a UTV myself, nor have I upgraded one, but I do follow the forums. It is pretty much just putting it in and letting it download software. Only catch, from what I see, is the drive cannot have anything on it. At all. Not even an unused partition. While (In theory) slower than the TiVo upgrade, it is easier, and harder to end up with useless hardware. But I believe there is only space for one drive in UTV, so you can only get half the space of a TiVo.

    As it is, the TiVo upgrade these days is pretty painless, and is only likely to get less so. If you can swap drives in the unit, it is only a little harder to do the necessary PC work. Of course, it does require a PC. And with the drives that come prepared for TiVo upgrade, it is actually just as easy to upgrade TiVo, and much quicker to boot, involving only a few seconds to add the new drive, instead of hours to download software to install.

    1. Re:Upgrade comparison... by Corrado · · Score: 1, Funny

      I have never upgraded a TiVo/UTV/DirecTV/etc but this sounds really suspicious. Maybe I have been a M$ victim for too long and am seeing conspiracies everywhere, but I can't imagine making it this easy to "pirate" the more expensive hardware. Are we sure that UTV is not recording the phone number & address of everyone that does this? Do they then send them a bill for the extra record time? I don't see how they could, but IANAL.

      --
      KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
    2. Re:Upgrade comparison... by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2
      The UTV upgrade is, unsurprisingly, not unlike the DishPlayer upgrade. In fact, it is pretty much the same.

      I could not find a description of that on the forum. But I did here.

      Basically the piece says 'take your Dish PVR apart, put in a bigger hard drive, reassemble'.

      What I would really like to do is to modify the PVR so that I can use a removable drive. That might mean buying a new case.

      Only thing they don't mention is putting two drives in - as has been done with Tiva (plural of Tivo). I would ideally like two 160Gb Hard Drives, or bigger.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    3. Re:Upgrade comparison... by Glove+d'OJ · · Score: 1

      I believe that TiVa use a form of linux as their base operating system. Do not most linuces have an IDE limit? That is, is not there a maximum storage amount (say, around 180GB) that most linuces can recognize?

      I want to say that this was brought up on the AVSFora a while back, when the new Maxtor 100GB drives came out.

      ----
      Proud owner of a 160GB / 193 hour TiVo. Yep, over a week straight on any channel, if I were to want that.

    4. Re:Upgrade comparison... by Glove+d'OJ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Found it... and in deference to the Fora in which I found this information, I am summarizing it (thereby hoping to avoid the /. effect on their site.)

      The TiVo's OS is a Linux variant, one that allegedly assumes 512 byte sectors. This gives a 128 GiB (2^30) of storage per drive.

      I think that this works out to over 310-320 hours(assuming 8.75/7 h / GiB), or just under TWO weeks straight of a single channel.

      Just imagine all the Simpsons / Family Guy / Jackass episodes that would be! Not to mention all the HBO-only specials...

    5. Re:Upgrade comparison... by Shanep · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can't imagine making it this easy to "pirate" the more expensive hardware.

      It's not pirating though. The user is purchasing another, more expensive drive to replace the old one and in the process are probably voiding their warrantee.

      The companies could probably legally prevent usage of their network with user modified hardware and certainly void any warrantee, though I doubt they would bother pursuing more money from a unit they would rather no longer support.

      I imagine requesting more money for a user upgraded unit, would be like condoning user upgrades and validating them as still being supported units. Easier to just void them, rather than project an image that this practice is almost acceptable from their point of view.

      Not everyone observes anti-static and electrical precautions and since the unit is not designed to be user upgradable, their legal eagles probably would have a fit at the thought of supporting the unknown. If they had thorough, easy to understand step by step instructions for user upgrades and the hardware was designed to make it easy, then it could be a different story.

      Don't get me wrong though, if I had a TiVo, I would love to drop in a couple of 120Gb drives. Actually, I would rather have a network capable unit that I could just sym link to my NFS server, especially if I could have this as combined storage for multiple units around the house. Of course, I'm dreaming a bit here, I don't know if this is possible with any of them.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    6. Re:Upgrade comparison... by exodus2 · · Score: 1

      It looks as though the linked article is for upgrading the original pvr box that had a 15 hour recording time. I canecled my supscription, moved and had my wife sign up to get the new box for free. I took the drive out and it was a 17 gig, cant remember the make but i tossed it into my linux box and it works fine. Their new box is the Dish 501pvr. If you look at the list of Hard drives on the link you will notice that there are things like 20 gig hd listed, so It is unlikely that that info is for the new box.

      --
      .sigs suck, thus nothing here.
    7. Re:Upgrade comparison... by Arkham · · Score: 2

      The drive controller in a TiVo is an ATA/33 controller. That means it can only handle up to 132GB per drive. If you put in a 160 GB drive, a lot of space will be wasted.

      Most people on the AVS Forum agree that you're better off with quiet, cool drives than fast ones. The consensus is that the "best" upgrade for most people would be two 5400 RPM 120GB drives.

      Most people don't do this though. They take the existing 20 or 30GB drive and make that their "A" drive, then add a big "B" drive (80, 100, or 120 GB). 5400 RPM drives are preferrable since they tend to be quieter and run cooler.

      --
      - Vincit qui patitur.
    8. Re:Upgrade comparison... by jargoone · · Score: 1

      Actually, I would rather have a network capable unit that I could just sym link to my NFS server, especially if I could have this as combined storage for multiple units around the house.

      So would I. Then there's the crowd that says "TiVo is only a mpeg en/decoder with lineups, it would be easy to duplicate." I wish someone would get busy with it. I'd be first in line to buy it.

    9. Re:Upgrade comparison... by F34nor · · Score: 1

      Finally my all Simpsons all the time network...

    10. Re:Upgrade comparison... by Tyger · · Score: 2, Informative

      The thing is, in the case of the DirecTV one and the UTV as well as DishPlayer and DishPVR, it isn't just an en/de-coder. They don't have an encoder, using the DBS encoded signal directly, which gets a much higher quality image. However, don't expect either company to release hardware any time soon to let you capture THAT to your computer.

    11. Re:Upgrade comparison... by MonMotha · · Score: 1

      It appears that linux can handle larger hard drives now. According to the referenced slashdot article (and the "stuff" contained therein), linux can now handle IDE hard drives in excess of 100 petabytes. That's a pretty large hard drive.

      --MonMotha

  6. Where's Katz? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    I miss that childfuckers long winded senseless rambling.

  7. Poo! Poo from my ASS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    That's a dirty trick, selling your cheap Apple toys to young kids who don't know any better. Let me guess: you even convinced them that iBooks were computers, right? Those poor, damned youngsters. I don't want to see the looks on their sweet young faces when they go out into the Real World and discover that employers expect people to know how to use Windows.

    Why, it ought to be a crime to give Macs to impressionable kids. It's like giving them heroin... both heroin and Macs are overpriced trash used by the dregs of society, degenerates who mask their inadequacies under the guise of "artistic personality." Why, I'll show you where heroin and an artistic personality will get you: dead. Just look at Kurt Cobain. Oops, you probably shouldn't have looked at that, he isn't too pretty without a head.

    But I digress. The fact is that giving Macintoshes to kids is just wrong. You'll set their technological development back by fuckin' years. I mean, come on... it's a Mac, for Jobs sake. What are these fuckin' jackbooted government thugs trying to do to our children, buying them Macs? I'll tell you what they want. They want these kids in on the Cult. You know, the Crapintrash "True Believers." Those loonies refuse to use real computers, all blabberin' on about the sanctity of Jobs' user interface -- but they can't seem to find "jobs," get it? They're all useless bums and criminals. I don't know why we taxpayers should fund the next generation of dirty Mac users, suckin' welfare off the government teat while moaning about FireWire and AltiVec. I mean, come on.

    I don't have anything against givin' kids toys, and a Mac is a fine toy for a little girl, or a boy whom you suspect of being queer. But tellin' these kids that these toys are computers? Why, that's an abomination! I suppose next you'll be tellin' them that "Power Wheels" are just the same as real automobiles, and we'll have kids gettin' run over on the highway! Tell me, people, do you want your children being run over on the highway of life?

    A Mac is a fine toy, see, but I recommend buying your young ones GameCubes instead. Both Macs and GameCubes are multicolored plastic toys designed for the underdeveloped mind, but at least a GameCube doesn't have all the fuckin' stigma of a Mac. You want your kids being part of the weak leftist politicians, "subversive" wannabe artists, and child molesters that make up the Apple "community?" Fine. But don't spend my tax dollars doing it, you fucking communists.

    I don't expect much sympathy from you Linux folks. You're just as much wannabe-commies and hypocritical Windows-bashers as the Mac crowd, but you can't even afford decent hardware. I intend to prove that each and every one of you is a terrorist, like Anand lal Shimpi. What with all the talk of stealing copyrighted material, violating contractual license agreements, and the like on this sorry excuse for a weblog, I wouldn't be surprised if Osama bin Laden himself is holed up at the Geek Compound. Probably taking advantage of Malda's loose asshole and installing PGP from the Red Hat Power Tools CD, so that he can further injure the American republic. You're going down, Slashdot!

    (Note to TRoLLaXoR: you know the truth, so kindly ignore this. :-)

    -- The_Messenger

  8. Ut-oh by CodeRed · · Score: 3, Funny

    This just must be illegal!

    Kind of like chewing a pencil. That was not the intent of the maker, therefore reverse engineering the wood is a violation of the DMCA as well?

    I give this a week before you hear about DMCA implications.

    --

    --
    CodeRed, the lower user #. No relation to SirCam.
    1. Re:Ut-oh by billn · · Score: 2

      DMCA enforcement will likely eat poo, should someone go after a consumer with it. These boxes fall wholly within fair use limits, just like VCRs. I'm not sure any particular company is up to that legal fight just yet, even the MPAA. Once they tear into it, the DMCA will hit some serious scrutiny, and likely some serious assault.

      --
      - billn
  9. Help! by Geoffd1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I tried to upgrade my VCR as per the instructions, but it didn't work. Can somebody help me?

    1. Re:Help! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      uhhh wrong forum this is slashdot you may want to try the link mentioned

    2. Re:Help! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      I just slide in a new tape into the slot and it works !!! Isn't that worthy for a slashdot post ?

    3. Re:Help! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Moron alert!

    4. Re:Help! by hawk · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      Me too!


      :)


      hawk

  10. Drive noise? by deano · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I upgraded my replayTV a few months back, and I've since noticed that the 120GB drive I put in (Maxtor 5400rpm) makes a very audible clicking noise as it writes/scans... I'd just warn anyone considering an upgrade to definitely ear-test the drive first if possible... What is perfectly acceptable/quiet in terms of in-computer use, can be deafening when watching a tense moment of (intended) silence on-screen.

    --
    http://www.shonenjump.com The world's most popular manga, now in English!
    1. Re:Drive noise? by ghazban · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, maxtor has a drive utility to change the loudness of the drive. This will have a small impact on the performance (probably won't make much of a difference when used by a tivo), but from what it sounds, that'd be worthwhile. You'd have to put it in your computer and run the utility, but it's probably worthwhile. See noise utilities for ibm and maxtor drives.

    2. Re:Drive noise? by Fishstick · · Score: 2

      Oh, that would be great if that worked! I got a Sony 30 hr tivo and added a second drive (IBM 75 GB) right away and was very pleased with the results, except for the noise.

      My concern, of course, is if this is possible to make this change now that the drive is already installed. Anyone have any experience with this?

      --

      There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
      Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

    3. Re:Drive noise? by linzeal · · Score: 1

      It is a pretty low level program and would imagine that since there is already a setting of "loud" on the drive that a setting of "low" woiuld affect only the same part of the bios and would not endanger 40+ hours of pr0n,sci-fi, and such. I've used it on xfs,ext2,ntfs,and fat32 partitioned drives with no problems.

      --
      An Education is the Font of All Liberty
  11. In other related news by cscx · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I just installed a 120 GB hard drive in my computer. It was a Western Digital WD1200BBRTL, their 120 GB model at 7200 RPM. Read about it at CompUsa.com. The drive includes the new Data Lifeguard (TM) system; the drive seems to work even after I dropped it on my carpeted floor (only from a few feet though). Comes with a 3 year warranty too, so any other of those poor slobs that dropped theirs can call WD for a replacement if needed. Don't forget to use your 80-wire cable, or you can't get ATA-100 speeds. The drive's nice and quiet, too. Everyone else, if you're thinking of upgrading your UTVs, buy an extra drive and upgrade your computer! It'll mount under NTFS as one volume too, unlike some other filesystems.

    1. Re:In other related news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Your a troll! most modern systems can manage several TB!

  12. Flamebaiting right-wing crapflooding! by GODLYDavidRing · · Score: -1

    Top 30 ways to anger a Liberal

    30. Have empty shell casings in you pocket and when you reach in for change let them see.

    29. Point out that GW Bush earned a Harvard MBA, whereas Al Gore dropped out of law school and flunked out of divinity school

    28. Ask them if the government should encourage irresponsibility, ingratitude, and forced compassion? Then talk about entitlement programs.

    27. Teach your nieces and nephews (all under 18) how to shoot a handgun.

    26. Suggest that if we could find the Bolivian soldier that put a bullet in Che Guevera's head, he be offered the Nobel Peace Prize.

    25. Refer to the Waco tragedy as an American Holocaust.

    24. Mention the Marxism has been the most deadly ideology in world history.

    23. Tell them that the only reason Chile is not another Argentina is due to the greatness of Pinochet and his economic reforms.

    22. Tell them that you eat meat, wear leather, wear fur, and love things made from silk.

    22. Inform them that the UNIBOMBER took, many of his positions, from Gore's book, " EARTH IN THE BALANCE".

    21. Criticize Palestinians then defend Israel.

    20. Mention that Bill Clinton's legacy was a stain on a blue dress.

    19. Remind them that Hitler was a socialist.

    18. Drive the largest vehicle with the biggest engine money can buy.

    17. Mention that "the bigger the better" doesn't apply to government.

    16. Remind them that Bill Clinton was a lying, cheating, scumbag and a rapist.

    15. Go hunting with your kids

    14. Criticize the United Nations.

    13. Support the Boy Scouts.

    12. Have lots of children and encourage others to do the same.

    11. Refer to homosexuals as sodomites.

    10. Read your bible in public and pray in restaurants.

    9. Refer to abortion as infanticide.

    8. Put up an American flag in front of your house.

    7. Teach your kids morals and values. Including discipline.

    6. Vote for someone with your values

    5. Go to a Fundamental Bible believing church.

    4. Home school your kids.

    3. Buy a gun and some ammo.

    2. Tell some one about Jesus and salvation.

    1. Speak the truth.

    1. Re:Flamebaiting right-wing crapflooding! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      All proven facts. Liberals are quick t0 anger.

    2. Re:Flamebaiting right-wing crapflooding! by Al+Gore · · Score: -1
      Point out that GW Bush earned a Harvard MBA, whereas Al Gore dropped out of law school and flunked out of divinity school.
      Sure I flunked out. I had to go to 'Nam, after all, and fight for your liberty and freedom. Some people may have taken the easy, less manly road and asked their daddies to call in a few favors and have them enrolled in the National Guard... those people, I suppose, would have time to complete a Harvard MBA (after all, National Guard is just one weekend a month, right?). But America's real heros fought overseas against the fierce Vietnamese.

      Luckily, over 50% of Americans agree with me. After Hillary abolishes the Electoral College, America will be free to choose me as their leader. I shall lead the American people toward a glorious socialist future, following in the footsteps of such innovative men as Tony Blair and Chairman Mao. And my beard will grow long with virility, and I shall overthrow the Bush dynasty and sacrifice the virgin Jenna to my ancestors. And, finally, I shall masturbate. Amen.

      --


      God Bless,
      Al Gore
      Inventor of the Internet
      Father of our Country
    3. Re:Flamebaiting right-wing crapflooding! by Ralph+JewHater+Nader · · Score: -1

      I fucking hate you, jew bastard.

      --

  13. Amen to Jesus Christ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I thank God for sending Jesus to us and showing that we need not kill eachother, but defend and help eachother. The Bible teaches that it is not in question to kill a person, but whether you shall defend yourself and your kindred of friends and family from another person's wrath and repent our sins. I will always remember that Jesus killed nobody nor asked of others to kill anybody...as I eat the meat of a cow. You hath spoken the truth and we both shall be rewarded by our brethren and especially by Rob(CmdrTaco).

  14. Useless drive? by jlower · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Why not just put the extracted drive in a computer?

    1. Re:Useless drive? by Glove+d'OJ · · Score: 1

      A lot of people who upgrade their PVR / TiVo keep the spare / original drive around instead of putting it into a computer. If something happens to the drive(s) that you hacked with, you always have a suitable backup on hand.

      The people who read/mod the AVSForums are very big on backups... good group.

    2. Re:Useless drive? by Shanep · · Score: 2, Informative

      you always have a suitable backup on hand.

      I nicer alternative, is to backup the drive from one of these units prior to usage, so that the data on the drives are in their most compressible state.

      Just dd the whole drive, piping it through some compressor to a file on your PC. Hopefully, this will leave you with a file small enough to burn onto a CD.

      I have assorted images for various OSes in my home, which I use for various testing purposes. You just have to remember to mark the partition type with fdisk (might not be required for all OSes to boot?) and then reboot to that OS with a boot manager like Smart Boot Manager (which seems to remember your many labels for the *same* partition, based on the type, but only one per type). Works nicely, and any OS, from QNX to W2K installs quickly without any fuss at all.

      I'd like to just use these with VMWare, but it is so bloody expensive! I *might* have considered it, if it were half the price it is, but the current price is just outrageous.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    3. Re:Useless drive? by winternj · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is useless because it uses ATA Passwords (same as xbox) and the drive is *invisible* to PCs (including linux's fdisk tool). To use this drive, you would have to hack the password which I believe is 4 bytes and has a maximum of 2 fail attempts per power cycle. You would have needed to use a logic analizer to catch the PW exchange between the UTV and the drive to hack it.

    4. Re:Useless drive? by ncc74656 · · Score: 2
      you always have a suitable backup on hand.

      I nicer alternative, is to backup the drive from one of these units prior to usage, so that the data on the drives are in their most compressible state.

      I did this with my TiVo before even firing it up (was able to pull off the "warranty void if seal broken" sticker in one piece), but that produced a ~2.5GB backup that spanned five CD-Rs. Utilities are now available that can get your TiVo backup down to 150-200MB...they zero out any video data on the drives. Using one of these utilities would be better from a standpoint of making a small backup than doing a "virgin backup."

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  15. works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    No problem.

  16. New to the DVR scene by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where does one get started with DVR's? Is there a difference between Ultimate Tivo and Replay?

    1. Re:New to the DVR scene by jlower · · Score: 3, Informative

      Of course there are differences. Pop over to the TiVo forums - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/ - where there are plenty of people who have multiple PVR's of different makes. They'll be happy give you a feature comparison.

  17. WARNING!!!! GOATSE LINK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Warning!!! There is a link to goatse.cx in the parent comment!!! MOD DOWN

  18. WARNING -- PLEASE READ (GOATSE LINK) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Warning! Do not click the link in the parent comment!!! It is a goatse redirect!! Mod this sicko down pls.

  19. Read this your life may depend on it! by Anonymous+Pancake · · Score: -1

    sci*ntology is a cult led by john travolta.
    slashdot is deeply involved with Sci*ntology.
    you should leave slashdot now or they may brainwash you.
    check out anti sci*ntology sites
    Fight this cult now!

    --

    The Slashdot Effect: A new for

  20. great capacity for HDTV by green+pizza · · Score: 2

    This is an awesome hack! The high prices and small capacity of the M$ UTV bundled drives is what has kept me from buying just yet. I want at least 100 GB for plenty of standard TV shows as well as for high quality audio and/or HDTV for my movies and such. This is what I have been waiting for!

    1. Re:great capacity for HDTV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think having the extra HD space will somehow allow you to record HDTV unless the unit itself supports HDTV. As of yet, UTV doesn't do HDTV.

    2. Re:great capacity for HDTV by green+pizza · · Score: 2

      As of yet, UTV doesn't do HDTV

      I was under the impression that M$ UTV supported HDTV via DirecTVPlus/HD. But then, I could be wrong. I was also one of the many under the impression that the M$ XBox w/ HD breakout box would give me something better than plain 480i. Even 480p would be nice. *sigh*

    3. Re:great capacity for HDTV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No HDTV, yet. Echostar (DishNetwork) has some HDTV PVRs planned but also vaporware at this point.
      I haven't seen much news regarding any upcoming products for Directv PVR with HDTV ability. I also think that Ultimate TV on DirecTv has a limited future. Microsoft was backing News Corp's bit for DirecTv (with cash). Obviously that didn't work. Will Charlie hold a grudge?

  21. Troll v3.0 featuring disinformation++ technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Any moderator stupid enough to believe this and not check the link is both stupid and on crack.

  22. Re: HD with DIMM slot? by cb0y · · Score: 0, Informative

    I wish HDs had DIMM slots for its cache, imagine HD with 512meg cache, no more seeks galore.
    If not DIMM, then a SO-DIMM

  23. You need to low-level format old UTV drives by cscx · · Score: 2, Troll
    If you can't seem to use a drive after you've removed it from a UTV, that's because it's probably using a special partition (not 0x83) that can't be read by any conventional software, or the disk has been written to in an unintelligible way. So what you need to do is completely wipe the drive with a low-level format, i.e., writing zeroes to the drive. Then you can repartition it as 0x07 if you want to be able to get productive use out of it.

    Here is a link to Western Digital's utility that allows you to low-level partition their ATA drives (the WDC seems to be popular in these devices):

    http://www.wdc.com/support/download/dlg/dlgdiag.zi p

    1. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by Rambar · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Shit, do some research. They tried it in the forum and it doesn't work.

      --
      -- Rambar
    2. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by Cap'n+Crax · · Score: 1

      Well, even if the low-level format WON'T work, I bet you can still go to the manufacturer's site and enter the drive serial # and see if it is still under warrany... Most drives are warrantied for ~3 years or so. If it is, just call for an RMA # and send the drive back and get a free replacement. As a computer tech, I've done this countless times..

      --
      PK: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    3. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by Amarok.Org · · Score: 1

      Having worked for a hard drive manufacturer, I can tell you that this almost certainly will *not* work.

      When a hard drive manufacturer sells drives to an OEM (like Dell, or Gateway, or your set-top box maker), they're sold as OEM drives with no end-user warranty.

      Since we're usually talking about hundreds of thousands of drives, the drive manufacturer plans for a certain number of failures based on recorded failure data, and provides an additional number of drives in the same contract cost. Let's say the order is for 100,000 drives, and the expected failure rate is 2%. The drive manufacturer would supply 102,000 drives under the contract, obviating the need to provide warranty service. Any failed drives would be replaced by the equipment manufacturer, out of the stock of spares.

      - Dave

      --
      -- "Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
    4. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by Shanep · · Score: 5, Informative

      the disk has been written to in an unintelligible way.

      Yeah, dd'ing it with /dev/zero ought to fix it.

      So what you need to do is completely wipe the drive with a low-level format, i.e., writing zeroes to the drive.

      A commonly used phrase, incorrectly used for ATA drives. "Low level format" comes from the days when it meant a real low level format, where tracks would literally be repositioned (old MFM and SCSI drives could do this). IDE drives are low level formatted at the factory and cannot be re-low level formatted outside the factory. IDE drives recalibrate themselves due to changes in heat, they calibrate off tracks or special encoding (gray code?) between tracks, written at the factory which are on areas that are not user writable.

      Then you can repartition it as 0x07 if you want to be able to get productive use out of it.

      HPFS/NTFS? Nah, 0x83 and 0xA6 for me.

      Here is a link to Western Digital's utility that allows you to low-level partition their ATA drives (the WDC seems to be popular in these devices):

      Since the popularity of ATA has taken over the desktop from MFM and SCSI, the "low level format" term has remained. However, in the IDE World, it only means "completely zero every user addressable block" on the drive and NOT "reposition tracks", since ATA drives don't need and are not capable of such a feat at even the leet haxor level.

      The term is erroneous for ATA drives, however it has been so commonly used that even the drive manufacturers refer to thier zero-out tools as low level formatters. They're not.

      I don't know if modern SCSI drive are capable of this or use the ATA method? Anyone?

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    5. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by cscx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not too sure about Linux, but I remember in DOS, you could use the debug.com utility to call a memory address in the disk controller (albeit for SCSI and MFM only) that would invoke a low level format utility. I'm not sure if it exists/works anymore.

    6. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by Shanep · · Score: 3, Interesting

      in DOS, you could use the debug.com

      What a blast from the past! I remember that. Yeah like 4 or 5 bytes and then whoosh!

      That calls a system BIOS program to do the dirty work does'nt it?

      I used to actually enjoy typing in debug listings from magazines like Compute!, to muck around with the utils, etc. I remember a util called prune that was a deltree before the days of DOS deltree, which did a great job of pruning dirs and also fucking up file systems every now and then. : ) I guess thats what you get with 50 byte programs without error checking. ; )

      Before that though, I was even sicker, back when Compute! mag was a C64 magazine, they had literally pages and pages of multi column HEX listings for utils and games. Some of the games were actually pretty good arcade games, considering thier size. First you had to type in the assembler in BASIC (really just a check summing program) and save it (to tape for me), then use it to enter the HEX listings, the "assembler" could inform you when you got a line wrong, based on the checksum.

      Man those were the days.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    7. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by cscx · · Score: 4, Informative
      This DEBUG script I found should low-level format any IDE drive:

      F 200 L 200 0
      a 100
      mov ax,301
      mov bx,200
      mov cx,1
      mov dx,0080 (Note: use 0081, 0082, 0083 for 2nd, 3rd, 4th harddisk respectively)
      int 13
      int 3
      (hit ENTER to enter a blank line here)
      G=100
      q

      Yeah debug.com sure brings back memories. For a second I tbought the dd command had something to do with the post, not your .sig!

    8. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by Shanep · · Score: 1

      For a second I tbought the dd command had something to do with the post, not your .sig!

      ; ) Just having a dig at the Linux kernel developers, from the recent VM system changes and system instability and extreme thrashing slowdowns I seemed to be getting since upgrading to 2.4.10.

      --
      War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
    9. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by red_dragon · · Score: 1

      IIRC, on MFM controllers you could jump to the low-level formatting utility by entering the following at DEBUG's dash prompt:

      g=c800:8

      I'm not sure if SCSI controllers ever had this feature, since most of them have a config utility that's accessible after POST when the BIOS is initialising the controller.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
    10. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by dirty · · Score: 1

      Don't most (all?) IDE drives just pretend to do the low-level format and in reality do absolutely nothing?

      --

      -matt
    11. Re:You need to low-level format old UTV drives by Cramer · · Score: 2

      "IDE" drives (not ATA or ATAPI, read: ancient) would mostly selfdestruct if low-level formated by one of those ancient BIOSes. That's one reason that's not a BIOS setup option anymore.

      At any rate, yes, you can indeed, execute a true field low-level format on IDE, ATA, and ATAPI drives. You may need specialized software to do it, however. (OnTrac Disk Manager used to have this capability for a very large number of drives, but they no longer sell that version.) If you actually have the need to reinit an IDE drive, you might as well buy a new one -- the error requiring the reinit _will_ come back.

  24. €uro crap! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    mportant Stuff:
    Please try to keep posts on topic.

    Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.

    Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating
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    Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.

    Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be
    mportant Stuff:
    Please try to keep posts on topic.

    Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.

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    what has already been said.

    Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.

    Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be
    moderated. (You can read everything, even mmportant Stuff:
    Please try to keep posts on topic.

    Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.

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  25. Moderators on Crack. This modded down & others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    This pro-life post was modded -1 Offtopic and all the socialists(fascists) and communists(fascists) get modded up.

  26. Actually, in the board, SteinyD by llamalicious · · Score: 1

    has provided much more in-depth information regarding this upgrade, including a complete step-by-step on (what's currently) Page 4 of the board... (posted 12-29-01 01:02 PM)

  27. Tivo upgrades painful?? by smartin · · Score: 4, Informative

    this sounds much less painful and involved than various homebrewed TiVO upgrades.

    Where is this guy coming from? I just upgraded my Tivo and was amazed at how painless the process was. Yes you do have to bless the new drive, but with the availability of utility boot disks and CD's it is trivial to do.

    --
    The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
    1. Re:Tivo upgrades painful?? by Sc00ter · · Score: 2
      Compaired to other PVRs to upgrade, the TiVo is more complicated and does require more steps. It's not harder, just more stuff to do. ReplayTV has some very nice windows software to do their upgrades.. Something like that for TiVo would be nice.

      --
      Free Mac Mini
    2. Re:Tivo upgrades painful?? by jjo · · Score: 4, Informative

      While the first-generation TiVO upgrade procedure was (apparently) somewhat painful, the current procedure is very easy. Using the Hinsdale How-to TiVO Upgrade guide, I was able to upgrade my TiVO in two hours, including a backup of my original drive.

      My formerly 40-hour TiVO now has a 130-hour capacity. I love it!

    3. Re:Tivo upgrades painful?? by SethJohnson · · Score: 1

      I agree. I was surprised that the TiVo upgrade was described as painful. I upgraded mine about a year ago and as clumsy as I am, I just breezed through it. Complicating matters was the fact that I did it on my Mac no less. My 14 hr Tivo, purchased for $179, now is a 91 hour TiVo. I didn't back up my original Tivo HD, so perhaps that's why my experience was so painless....

      --
      $5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
    4. Re:Tivo upgrades painful?? by Warlock7 · · Score: 1

      I'd like a walkthrough using the Mac. Please provide a link or something.

  28. Re:Troll v3.0 featuring disinformation++ technolog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And for the record: "checking the link" does not mean clicking on it. In case you don't know, just hovering the mouse over it displays the complete URL in the browser's status bar. Note that I said "browser" and not "Internet Explorer".

  29. Does size really matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would be a lot nicer to make them faster. Ie. 5000rpm -> 10 000rpm. Think about that. There is only a simple electric step motor and a bunch of controller chips... I would like to get 15k rpm IDE drives, cheap ones *:)

    1. Re:Does size really matter? by mckwant · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All this applies only to the TiVo, which are the only PVRs I have experience with.

      Faster drives are contraindicated due to the heat that the drives give off. The extra speed doesn't help the TiVo write or read the mpeg data on the HD, and wouldn't help anyway.

      The bottleneck's the processor and lack of RAM (PPC603, and 16MB, IIRC), and, of course, the lack of a second tuner.

      --
      ceci n'est pas un sig.
  30. My New Year's resolutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    1. FIRSTUS POSTUS, BEEOTCHII!
    2. Stop mocking Wil Wheaton for the wannebe geek washed up annoying child actor that he is
    3. Get a life
    4. Give goatse.cxa rest
    5. World domination of the desktop!
    6. Stop trolling slashdot
  31. Top 30 ways to anger a facist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Top 30 ways to anger a Facist.

    30. Put a rainbow sticker in your car window.

    29. Point out that dubya doesn't smoke crack, anymore.

    28. Ask if the goverment should be against terrorists. Then bring up all the world leaders that we have assassinated.

    27. Teach children that killing is wrong.

    26. Observe that Regan was the worst president we ever had, who spend 5 trillon dollars we didn't have.

    25. Refer to Amado diallo as an american tragety.

    24. Mention the Christian fundamentalism has been the most deadly ideology in world history. Especially talk about witch burning, the crusades and the spanish inquisition.

    23. Tell them that the only reason Pinochet was ever in power is because we assassinate democratically elected leaders and replace them with brutal dictators.

    22. Tell them that they are going to die 10 years earlier because they eat meat. Then laugh.

    22. Point out that dubya gave the teleban 3 million dollars 6 months before the tower attack. Wonder how much of that was used to help fund the attack.

    21. Criticize Israel then say Palestine should be a state.

    20. Mention that dubya's legacy is a burnt crater and the knee jerk, terror filled removal of human rights from US foreign policy. Also wonder how we can be at war without congress declaring war.

    19. Remind them that Hitler was actually a republican, they just were named socialist because they could get some moron liberals to accidently vote for them that way.

    18. Drive a hybrid-electric car, laugh at them when they are filling their tanks up.

    17. Mention that "the bigger the better" doesn't apply to cars. Point out that it was oil money that funded the attack on the towers.

    16. Remind them that Regan broke the law, had the CIA sell cocain in LA to buy guns to give to our dear friends, the Iraqies.

    15. Take his kids to the hollecost musuem. Explain to them that mean men like their daddy did this to those poor people.

    14. Criticize the NRA.

    13. Support the NAACP.

    12. Don't have any kids, go on lots of trips and always show off the newest toys you bought, just cause you felt like it.

    11. Refer to most tele-vangalists as sodomites.

    10. Read your satanist bible in public, have your lover wear a stainless steel collar and kneel at your feet at dinner.

    9. Refer to abortion as choice.

    8. Burn an American flag.

    7. Teach your kids morals and values. Including respect for others who are different than they are.

    6. Vote for someone with your values.

    5. Spend sunday morning having the wildest kind of sex imaginable. The kind with whips _and_ whip cream.

    4. Vote against school vouchers.

    3. Volunteer time at a homeless shelter.

    2. Laugh at someone telling you about Jesus and salvation. Ask if they still believe in Santa and the Easter bunny too. Then ask why the order of creation is different between the first and second chapters of the Bible.

    1. Speak the truth.

    1. Re:Top 30 ways to anger a facist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      31. Learn to spel, like reel gud.

    2. Re:Top 30 ways to anger a facist. by Mr.+Buckaroo · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      If this "The kind with whips _and_ whip cream" is the wildest sex you can imagine, I am quite sorry for you.

      Please stick to the topic.

  32. What's so painful about a 10 minute upgrade? by cworley · · Score: 2

    >...this sounds much less painful and involved than various homebrewed TiVO upgrades...

    It doesn't take 10 minutes to upgrade (add a second hard disk) to a TiVo. What's so painful about that?

    This xmas, I found five 20-hour TiVo's at Wallmart for $129 each, added $100 40GB drives (making them 72-hour). They made excellent xmas gifts, and they don't require much work at all.

    --
    When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates -- for once, make him clean up after me!
    1. Re:What's so painful about a 10 minute upgrade? by dieman · · Score: 1

      I like to give christmas gifts that have a warranty, perhaps?

      --
      -- dieman - Scott Dier
    2. Re:What's so painful about a 10 minute upgrade? by jlower · · Score: 1

      The 100% warranty on TiVo is only 90 days so it's not that big a deal.

      What's worse is a gift that costs $10 a month for as long as you want to use it. Now, if you got a lifetime sub for the TiVo's and gave them as a gift that would be wonderful.

  33. Mandatory Homebrew, DIY post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For hackers wanting to build their own DVR out of PC parts, what is the best card for hardware framegrabbing/encoding? Mpeg is alright, but I would really prefer direct to Divx encoding.

    I can go straight to Divx in software, but it really takes an 850mhz+ CPU.

    I suppose the current best method is using hardware to get the video and store it in mpeg format, then re-encode anything you want to save to CD in Divx.

    1. Re:Mandatory Homebrew, DIY post by nacho88 · · Score: 1

      I built a homebrew DVR under Linux. I used a Brooktree-based tuner/grabber (bt878 chipset) because AFAIK that is the only chipset with a good Linux driver (bttv.o, by Gerd Knorr). This grabs mpeg nicely on an old PentiumII-300MHz CPU. Why the preference for Divx?
      ---
      mgatny@umich.edu

    2. Re:Mandatory Homebrew, DIY post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the preference for Divx?

      ~2 hours of decent video and mp3 sound on a CD.

    3. Re:Mandatory Homebrew, DIY post by capnkid · · Score: 1

      Could I trouble you to provide a bit more ifo re: the Brooktree-based card? Im in the process of building my own Linux based DVR and have been struggeling for weeks with Matrox g450 etv vs. Radeon vs. whatever else. Finding a decent video capture card that works well with Linux has been a struggle. Thanks in advance.

  34. Who thinks a TiVo upgrade is hard? Maybe a MacUser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you think upgrading a tivo is hard, perhaps you just need to keep the lid on.

    All it takes is 20 minutes and a linux boot disk. I've done several and the process is a cakewalk.

    Great, go support Microsoft, they are soooo customer friendly and supportive of open source, yeah, let's give Bill some more money.
    Idiots. Who do you think wants to own everything you do? not Tivo.
    Who is more likely to let security slip and somehow publish you like to watch "hot oily studs in heat" (remember, these things remember everything you watch, every button you press on the remote, etc)
    Hmmm, the track record says MSFT
    But go ahead, everybody's doing it. . .

  35. wtf by CaptainSuperBoy · · Score: 2

    what are you talking about? I run my own Maxtor drive with the noise level set to quiet.. it really works.

  36. UltimateTV vs TiVo by Snowdog · · Score: 4, Informative

    For those who are trying to decide between UltimateTV and TiVo, or who (like me) own one type of unit and are thinking about switching to the other, here's a pretty comprehensive TiVo vs UltimateTV comparison.

    In a nutshell, TiVo beats UltimateTV in almost all areas.

    One other bit of information that may be significant: UltimateTV requires that you have a DirectTV satellite dish -- it will not work with standard cable TV.

    1. Re:UltimateTV vs TiVo by linzeal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Excuse me I don't have time to check the site thoroughly but is [tivonews.com] unbiased, or do they lean toward the tivo?

      --
      An Education is the Font of All Liberty
    2. Re:UltimateTV vs TiVo by Warlock7 · · Score: 1

      Like you said, you never read the article. Why not read it before making your uninformed decision? The article is very fair.

  37. 40 GB pretty small by todays standards by green+pizza · · Score: 2

    Not totally useless, but not all that useful either.
    80+ GB drives are quickly becoming the norm, and the typical "power user" has several. Still, a 40 GB drive could be useful in a low-use machine, such as a DNS server or a PC built from scraps for a newbie.
    Might need to low-level format the drive after yanking it from the recorder, but that's easy with any decent disk utility software. Do a google search, this is nothing new.

    1. Re:40 GB pretty small by todays standards by GeorgieBoy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      A year ago 40GB drives weren't considered small and 40GB for a DNS server?! You don't need anywhere near that amount of disk space. A DNS server could get by with just a Compact Flash card!.
      Not to mention that 40GB of music(thousands of tracks) or data isn't exactly shabby, and if it isn't enough for you, it's certainly easy enough these days to add the drive to a RAID. And who needs "disk utility software?" Just do
      dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc
      for the appropriate drive then add a DOS parition table using fdisk.
    2. Re:40 GB pretty small by todays standards by Quinn · · Score: 1

      I heartily agree. I have "only" a 20GB drive on my home system, and it still has ~6GB free! Where the hell does anyone get off calling a 40GB drive useless, especially in a home-user context? Are people archiving entire seasons of television shows? Never uninstalling full-installs of games? What's going on here? How could 40GB be useless?

      --
      #19845
    3. Re:40 GB pretty small by todays standards by ncc74656 · · Score: 2
      A year ago 40GB drives weren't considered small and 40GB for a DNS server?! You don't need anywhere near that amount of disk space. A DNS server could get by with just a Compact Flash card!.

      My web/mail server at home has a pair of 4.3GB drives in RAID 0 for root and an 80MB (!) drive for boot. It still has a fair amount of free space on it...enough for what it does (and the 4.3GB drives are Seagate Barracuda fast-wide SCSI drives, so they're not exactly slouches). The firewall at work doesn't have a hard drive at all...it boots Coyote Linux from a floppy and runs from a RAMdisk.

      My home workstation's equipped with a total of 145GB of storage (100 of it connected via FireWire for transportability), but it gets used for video editing. For most purposes, you don't need anywhere near that amount of storage...40GB, as you noted, is still a respectable amount of space for most people's use.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  38. Internet in Afghan! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Wow! It seems Osama Bin Laden has Internet access, AND trolls on /.!

  39. World Domination by nrc · · Score: 1
    Linux fans should take note. This is what Linux market leadership looks like. Everything Microsoft does in the PVR market is defined in terms of TiVo. UTV users speak of upgrades 'easier than TiVo', software upgrades coming real soon now that will 'lift UTV over Tivo' and so on, and so forth.

  40. Interesting, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    None of your links talk about /.
    So what's your deal?

    If you've been here a while you would see that scientology gets crushed here.

  41. *shrug* by athlon02 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I know it's fun to tweak things just to see if you can, but this seems worthless to me.

    1. Re:*shrug* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have obviously never used a PVR. More disk space is better! It means you can record more and save more before having to either delete or download saved material.

  42. Moderators Please Read This, or Goodbye Karma by bryan1945 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Instead of wasting your mod points on downgrading ACs, would you please use them to upgrade good posts? Remember that ACs start at zero, and most trolls are already at -1, so if the average uesr views at +1 (default) then they don't normally see this crap.

    I post this because I metamod a lot, and I get more dumb negative mods than good positive mods. Why waste points on obvious dreck? I have seen some great AC posts with great content, but no upmods at all. Look for those, that is what makes /. great, rather than wasting mod points on reducing tuesdaytroll to -4.

    Yes, this is off topic, and I'm going to get blasted out of my +1 bonus, but fuck it, maybe somebody will listen to me. Then I may get to read a nifty AC post with some info, rather than knowing mr. goatsex is buried 15 layers down.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  43. Maybe you shouldn't make ignorant remarks. by Warlock7 · · Score: 1

    I suppose you are now unaware of the UNIX base in OS X. Sorry to say this but you have lost your open source battle before you started it by slamming the Mac Users. Pay attention and show your contempt to who deserves it.

  44. I wish I could have something like that by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

    But it does not seem that anyting like that is coming to Scandinavia anyday soon. I have heard someone talking about a similar thing on the drawing board, but who knows.

  45. *sigh* by hawk · · Score: 2
    yet another 14 year old moderator who doesn't remember the perpetual december . . .


    for the younger folks: the grandparent post was a joke. Once AOL connected to usenet, there were some clueless statements, but even more trolls like the above. They would invariable end up swarmed with posts with nothing more than "me too" from aol.com addresses. Some offered porn, with instructions to post the request. Others offered improbable upgrades, such as impossible compression or speed, or, as the above pointed to, vcr or sattellite "enabling" for pay channels.


    hawk

    1. Re:*sigh* by AnalogBoy · · Score: 2

      Too bad /. doesn't have an AI (I mean, besides Hemos). They could program it to detect those of us with brains and give some credit. For the sake of argument, lets call them "Kudos". Lets say the scale would be 1-10. A normal user would start off with "0". Before getting any "Kudos", you would need to be an active poster for a predefined period of time, have no more than "x" negatively moderated posts, and already be at your maximum karma.

      These theoretical "Kudos" would be calculated based on many factors. Activity of UID proportional to age, Sustained number of posts moderated highly, years of formal education (For no other reason than efficency of thought process). These "Kudos" points would then be plugged into an equation which, like the Karma system thoretically was supposed to do, would enable you to be hailed as "Enlightened".

      There are a number of reasons which I will not get into that lead me to believe the moderation system is flawed. One reason I will mention, however, is taken directly off of Quit Slashdot Today!, which is: Technical opinions refereed by popular vote means lousy technical opinions.

      For Instance - Since you've posted ~1600 comments, Have a UID you could sell on e-bay for lots of money, and are an established member of academia, you would get, say 6 karma points. Users such as myself who value the intelligent posts, instead of the opinions of 14 year olds caught up in the heat of the open source counterculture.

      (These opinions are not neccecarily those of me. Being human, I am prone to sudden attacks of multiple personality disorder. One of these personalities has a particularly quixotic nature. He tends to post rants on slashdot all day.)

    2. Re:*sigh* by AnalogBoy · · Score: 2

      Incomplete thought. frontal lobe malfunction. Rebooting..
      OK.
      OpenBrainOS v0.1.1-SMP 2 lobes + FoldedCortex
      Warm boot - Medulla Oblongata already initialized
      Disabling math.o, Enabling sciences.o, Enabling opinionated_bastard.o
      Entering runlevel 3
      [root] brain:~# ./finish_thought --personality=slashdot --thought=/lost+found/slashrant520102

      Anyways. ...Users such as myself who value the intelligent posts, instead of the opinions of 14 year olds caught up in the heat of the open source counterculture would benefit from such a system. If there were a way besides karma to measure the overall "Worth" of a user, my slashdot experience would be much better.

      [root] j00ve been 0wned:~# echo "DOH!"

    3. Re:*sigh* by hawk · · Score: 2
      Yes, another type of scoring system would be nice. I'm getting closser and closer to giving up slashdot enitely by the day . . .


      But then, I've never gotten around to figuring out trn scoring, either :) I'm sure there's a man page *somewhere*, but it's become well hidden since strn was folded into trn . . . and someday, I'll find out what happened to the "p" command in rn . . .


      I used a scored newsreader on a mac for a while,which would let me flag people with insane adjustments, but the rest of the newsreader meant it was still easier to telnet to unix and use trn :)


      I toy at time with a bbs-like system, modeled after those, but organized in rings. The whole world could see and join the outer ring, while each succeeding inner ring would be joined by invitation . . . I'm interested in as much to see how it would as for participation, wondering if it might restore the environment of old usenet (which was partially captured by a small fraction of the bbs's)


      hawk

    4. Re:*sigh* by AnalogBoy · · Score: 2

      Thats a very interesting idea. I used to run a BBS, and that system worked very well in the message boards, which were pretty active locally. I never was big in Usenet - Just the local BBS net and occasionally the fidonet. I tried to get involved in conversations in usenet, but my favorite debate areas were the Religion, Psychology and Human Sexuality groups - Places where debates rage on and on, constantly. Mostly secularists vs. fundimentalists in all groups. Without getting too political, those discussions have been raging since the beginning of time, and i don't know if ANY progress has been made.

      Now I occasionally hang out on comp.unix.solaris, helping where I can. There's just too much chaff and not enough wheat nowadays, for my taste. I've been wanting to give up on /. recently - I agree with most of the points on the "Quit slashdot today" site.. but, its like an addiction.. can't.. quit.. Slashdotics Anonymous, anyone?

      I need to get back into usenet. Unfortunately, being the introvert I am, I don't want to get accustomed to a new group of people. In my opinion the time has come for slashdot to adopt a general forum. Just toss it over there --- with the ask slashdot, etc. That way we can discuss things we want to discuss, without being moderated down. Just rotate the boards once a day, and archive after 2 or 3 weeks like normal. That would stop flame..

      Jeez, im ranting on and on and on and on about nothing inparticular. my apologies.

    5. Re:*sigh* by hawk · · Score: 2
      I was away from usenet from 85 until 94. As near as I can tell, those newsgroups were carrying on the exact same arguments as when I left, with different people repeating the same lines. creation/evolution, abortion, the heinlein flamewars, etc.


      The "Imminent Death of Usenet" *did* happen after the perpetual december, but a few newsgroups survived, and there's still a couple of places for us, uhh, dinosaurs. I'd mention them by name, but not here :)


      btw, it seems your wish was granted with the friend/foe system . . .


      hawk

  46. Hi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You can't bury me.

    -- Mr. Goatsex