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The Rise And Fall of Ion Storm

fakeamerican writes: "Here's a lengthy article in Salon about Ion Storm's rise and fall, written by a former employee and lifelong friend of John Romero." Shows what goofing off in class can getcha.

97 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. To summarize by Lothar+0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Here's a nice way to demonstrate the fall of Ion Storm.

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  2. Let me summarize the story for you... by jjohnson · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Yeah, we were as badly run as all our critics said, and it really was a huge waste of money, time and energy, but Goddamn, it was fun. I miss it. Won't someone give me a job doing the same thing?"

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    1. Re:Let me summarize the story for you... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dead on. The story is laughable, and sad. Supposedly he's defending Ion Storm against the critics, but all his defenses amount to are saying "oh, yes, it was like that, but it was cool!" The wastefulness of that kind of culture came from having a bunch of young fanboys who were so impervious to criticism, so sure that they couldn't do anything wrong, that they squandered every break they got and won few friends along the way. The fact that a childhood friend of Romero's had to right this content-free apologia is an indication of how hopeless they really were.

    2. Re:Let me summarize the story for you... by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Interesting
      • Won't someone give me a job doing the same thing?

      And by the way, I'm not even a level designer, I'm a "writer", so none of the shit that came out of there is my fault, it was all those other bitches, because while they were obviously slacking by playing other people's games, I was slacking more subtly by working on my Great American Novel, or bidding on Call of Cthulhu rulebooks on eBay.

      It's been said before and I'll say it again. Shit never, ever sticks to the "creative" guys. By the way, when a games person says they worked on a title "briefly" (Deus Ex in this case), it means they walked past a room when the producers were being lied to about it a couple of times. Believe me, I know.

      Let me recall an anecdote about Daikatana. A games magazine was invited to view it a couple of months before release (I don't know which "release" that referred to). The mag flack played for a bit then asked "Where's the sniper rifle?"

      "Sniper rifle?" asked the Ion Storm "creatives".

      The mag flack explained it, pointing out that every FPS had one. It was a genre convention. The answer from the Ion Storm guys:

      "Wow, that sounds cool. We'd better put one in."

      Jesus H Breakdancing Christ. Ill informed, incompetent, and unprincipled. They could at least have stuck to their guns (literally) rather than throwing yet another new challenge at the programming team with a deadline looming. It really is astonishing that it turned out as good (ahem) as it did.

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    3. Re:Let me summarize the story for you... by John_Booty · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Dead on. The story is laughable, and sad. Supposedly he's defending Ion Storm against the critics, but all his defenses amount to are saying "oh, yes, it was like that, but it was cool!"

      He's not saying they were right; he freely admits to the mistaks they made. However, that's not the point. He's saying they were a bunch of people who genuinely had their hearts in the right place who were trying to create something special, a really great game that pushed the boundaries.

      They failed of course, and he readily admits that too, but the point is that the public beating they took was way out of line with what they are. I mean, the public tore into them with a wrath usually reserved for child molesters and genocidal dictators. He makes some interesting points about how the public and media like to build people up only to destroy them, and notes the ways in which Ion Storm fueled the media frenzy (the "make you his bitch" ads, marketing outpacing development, etc).

      Think about it, lots of companies make shitty games, outlandish advertising promises ("this game will kick your ass", etc) and have lots of petty infighting. The question is: why was this such a big deal with Ion Storm? The difference lies mostly in the public's opinions, expectations and attitudes, rather than any actual fault of Romero or Ion Storm's own.

      I met John Romero at E3 '98. He was very friendly and was eager to show us the cool new robot-infested levels they'd made for Daikatana... and they did look pretty cool, I admit (for the time). He was a nice guy and although Daikatana wound up sucking (although it probably would have been cool if it wasn't late), he didn't really deserve the public beating he took.

      Also, note that during all the public sniping, John never took the oppurtunity to trash anyone or fire back (to my knowledge). You have to give him credit for that. Most people, probably myself included, would have been hard-pressed to take the high road in that situation like he did.

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    4. Re:Let me summarize the story for you... by discogravy · · Score: 3, Funny


      but the point is that the public beating they took was way out of line with what they are. I mean, the public tore into them with a wrath usually reserved for child molesters and genocidal dictators


      Dude, have you played Daikatana?

    5. Re:Let me summarize the story for you... by sql*kitten · · Score: 2

      I mean, the public tore into them with a wrath usually reserved for child molesters and genocidal dictators.

      IMHO, they deserved everything they got for their part in the demise of Looking Glass Studios. Thief was genuinely innovative, and Dire-Katana was always a disaster waiting to happen... only question was when, and how much it would cost. Looking Glass' only fault was that they thought that actually creating stuff was more important than buying ego-psycho advertising (the "Romero's Bitch" stuff).

    6. Re:Let me summarize the story for you... by John_Booty · · Score: 2

      IMHO, they deserved everything they got for their part in the demise of Looking Glass Studios.

      Here's the way I understood the situation, correct me if I'm wrong. Eidos was the publisher of both Looking Glass and Ion Storm. Due to the fact that LGS games were critically-acclaimed but were never huge sellers, and the fact that Eidos thought Ion Storm was going to make a bunch of big sellers, they decided to give their money to Ion Storm instead.

      I wish LGS was still around instead of Ion, but it's kind of silly to blame Ion. Blame Eidos instead-- for throwing money at Ion Storm instead of Looking Glass. Or blame the public for not buying enough LGS games. I don't think it makes sense to blame Ion Storm. What were they supposed to do, fund LGS themselves? It's not their job to look out for other developers.

      --

      OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
  3. Crappy Bot AI killed Ion Storm... by Bonker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, it's almost that simple. The 'team' you're given in Daikatana is probably the reason the game does so badly. IIRC, you couldn't let any member of the team die... you couldn't shoot through them, ala 'No Friendly Fire' in most FPS arenas today... you had to make allowances for the idiot AI behind your team members... you frequently got stuck because your 'teammates' couldn't get out of your way.

    More than anything else, reviews of the crappy team system killed Daikatana's sales, and with Daikatana, Ion Storm failed as well.

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    1. Re:Crappy Bot AI killed Ion Storm... by nEoN+nOoDlE · · Score: 2

      I think it was the robotic frogs that killed Diakatana. Those were bitched about way more than the crappy team AI. Oh, and coupled with the poor level design, poor weapons, poor AI, poor graphics, poor storyline, etc.

      There was not one thing that killed it - it did just as badly with the whole product without having to specify one thing that led to its demise.

      --
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  4. Romero left after Quake2? by reaper20 · · Score: 2

    The article states that Romero left id after Quake 2. If my memory serves me correctly, didn't he leave after the original Quake?

    1. Re:Romero left after Quake2? by Judas96' · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes he did leave after the original Quake. The lead designer for Quake II was Kevin Cloud I believe. He is an artist along with Adrian Carmack. The two of them made founded id software with John Romero and John Carmack.

    2. Re:Romero left after Quake2? by mlong · · Score: 2, Informative
      Yes he did leave after the original Quake. The lead designer for Quake II was Kevin Cloud I believe. He is an artist along with Adrian Carmack. The two of them made founded id software with John Romero and John Carmack.

      Nope...from id's own page:

      id unofficially started in September of 1990 when John Carmack, Adrian Carmack, John Romero, and Tom Hall created the first game in the Commander Keen series, Invasion of the Vorticons. One month after Commander Keen was released into shareware, John Carmack, Adrian Carmack, and John Romero left their jobs at Softdisk Publishing and officially began id Software, on February 1, 1991.

      --
      //m
  5. stupid ads.. by juju2112 · · Score: 3, Informative

    For those junkbuster users out there, like me, that get nothing but a blank page when clicking on that link, this link willget you past the ad:

    http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/02/ion_s torm/index.html?x

    1. Re:stupid ads.. by snubber1 · · Score: 2, Informative
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    2. Re:stupid ads.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For those junkbuster users out there, like me, that get nothing but a blank page when clicking on that link, this link willget you past the ad:

      Yeah! If it weren't for those damned ads, we could be absolutely positive that they make no money off of their efforts! How dare they try and stop us from viewing their work without making the slight effort of reading their ads! They are infringing on my rights as a consumer to not only receive completely free news, but to take active measures to make sure that the publisher gets paid precisely dick for their efforts! Those bastards!

  6. Re:Wait a minute.... by ImaLamer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, remember before they actually did anything.

    The gaming mags jumped all over them and said they were the second coming... goes to show what they know about things.

  7. I read through the article. by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article took five pages without going into much relevant detail.

    At the end, he tells us that Daikatana flopped and Deus Ex was awesome, but fails to say why.

    Deus Ex was an awesome game. I think that the first person shooter has a tremendous amount of potential to surpass its origins, and Deus Ex is a glimpse into the beginnings of that future.

    1. Re:I read through the article. by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One thing that I really question from the article is this statement: Daikatana and Deus Ex were finally released in 2000. Predictably, Daikatana was slammed while Deus Ex received many awards. Both made money for Eidos, but the walk-outs, firings, lawsuits and general bad blood doomed Ion Storm..

      To say that I highly doubt that Diakatana "made money" is an understatement (note that "made money" means returned more money than it cost to produce. Eidos isn't sitting pretty if they dumped millions in and "made money" selling 20 copies).

  8. They should have called it "meiken." by Rank+Amateur · · Score: 4, Informative

    What's most ironic about the Daikatana fiasco, the millions spent, egos dissolved, and promises broken, is that the game's title is an *egregious* mistranslation of a Japanese word.

    Basically, the designers erroneously believed that the characters for "big" (dai) and "sword" (katana), when slapped together, are pronounced "Daikatana." That's lunacy: this combination would be pronounced "Ogatana," (with an elongated "o.")

    It gets worse. Daikatana, or Ogatana, don't exist as accepted descriptions of famous swords in Japanese. The best translation would be Tachi (using the characters for "fat' and 'sword,') but a preferred way of referring to a famous sword is just that: "Meiken," or famous sword.

    If the Daikatana team had looked in the history books, or consulted a Japanese expert, they could have avoided this travesty, and dumped the tongue-twisting word "Daikatana" in the rubbish heap. A small investment for quality. But I suppose that hubris had already instilled itself in their minds.

    Hubris. That's a Greek word, by the way. As in "classical Greek." Its roots are . . . (continue ad infinitum).

    1. Re:They should have called it "meiken." by banky · · Score: 2

      They could have called it "Quake 2 1/2" and it would have still sucked sweaty donkey balls.

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    2. Re:They should have called it "meiken." by jnik · · Score: 2

      "People" like you are the reason Ion Storm is gone, despite making Deus Ex, which is a fucking cool game,
      Deus Ex kicked ass. And was the product of Ion Storm Austin, a mostly independent studio run by Warren Spector. ISA was an entirely different animal from the Dallas office, although still drawing from Romero's vision of design above all (and doing a much better job of it).
      ISA, incidentally, still exists, and will probably be renamed if it hasn't already. (My vote for the new name is "Looking Glass," since they have many of the old LG staff and seem to be drawing from that heritage)

    3. Re:They should have called it "meiken." by BitwizeGHC · · Score: 2

      Basically, the designers erroneously believed that the characters for "big" (dai) and "sword" (katana), when slapped together, are pronounced "Daikatana." That's lunacy: this combination would be pronounced "Ogatana," (with an elongated "o.")


      I looked the kanji up. The reading edict gives is "taitou", meaning just a longsword. The name "Daikatana" comes from an RPG session the id guys had one time: Romero's character had a sword called "Daikatana" equipped. It is pretty silly and asinine, but it stuck.
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    4. Re:They should have called it "meiken." by MrResistor · · Score: 4, Informative
      Whether it's a real japanese word or not, it's been floating around in gaming circles for a long time, from D&D to Daggerfall to the game in question, and undoubtably many stops in between. In every case it has meant, simply, "big sword", sort of a Claymore Katana, rather than some specific sword of legend as you seem to suggest it should.

      The meanings of characters when slapped together, is largely dependent on context, though, so I'd say you've got a bit of hubris yourself declaring the word invalid, at least by the somewhat fractured arguements you present. I won't argue pronunciation since I don't speak Japanese, but my wife's boss is Japanese and she's frequently approached by people who want Kanji Tattoos. She says it's tricky business weighing all the possible alternate meanings against the intended one and picking the combination that is best overall.

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    5. Re:They should have called it "meiken." by Travoltus · · Score: 2

      I can't believe this bald faced insult against someone for being multilingual and intelligent and well spoken, got modded up.

      Getting beat up in school for being smart. Harharhardyharhar. Man I laughed so hard it came out like a disgusted groan.

      Maybe slashdot should post a warning. Sounding intelligent will get you flamed. w3 st00pid d00dz r00l th3 w0r1d w3rd up t0 D4 N 2 D4 4 2 D4 T 2 D4 4 2 D4 1 2 D4 I 2 D4 3 b4yb33!! (and I bet y'all l33t d00dz can't decode that, haha)

      (I wonder if the moderator rating this post is thinking, 'oh school violence is funny, get over it d00d.')

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  9. Ion Storm IS alive... by FortKnox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    FYI, Warren Spector's (*humble bow*) Austin branch of Ion Storm is alive and well. So don't fear, Deus Ex 2 is still churning.
    Deus Ex, of course, is the reason Ion Storm Austin is in business. I'm sure you know why the other branch is closed.

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  10. To summarise by Violet+Null · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article says, in summary, "Ion Storm was a great place to work, and everything was good, until people started attacking them, and then it all went to crap."

    Which is, well, debatable. I mean, Daikatana didn't get bad reviews because people wanted to slam Ion Storm; it got bad reviews because it bit. If it had been good, it would've gotten good reviews, regardless of people's like or dislike of Ion Storm. They overreached and failed, end of story.

    Of course, my personal dislike of Ion Storm comes from the (admittedly irrational) belief that the money Eidos gave for Daikatana would've been much better spent on Looking Glass Studios.

    1. Re:To summarise by Matthew+Weigel · · Score: 2
      Of course, my personal dislike of Ion Storm comes from the (admittedly irrational) belief that the money Eidos gave for Daikatana would've been much better spent on Looking Glass Studios.

      Preach it brother, preach it! It's kind of interesting that Salon has published articles lamenting Looking Glass's demise at Ion Storm's hands despite great games, and then publishes a lament about the demise of Ion Storm despite a really, really bad game. I guess someone has to give everyone their voice...

      But you really have to be amazed by John Romero's hubris, when you see

      In any event, Romero adds, Ion Storm's fortunes are now fully golden: "With Daikatana riding high in the charts and Deus Ex about to hit the streets," says Romero, "Ion will have successfully transitioned into a profitable venture and has long ago ceased to be a financial burden on its publisher."
      in Salon's eulogy to Looking Glass. `Daikatana riding high'?

      Oh well. LG Studios, and Ion Storm as it was first envisioned, are both gone. More of the older gaming scene is gone, and it is a new year. Maybe there will be a really new game, or even a really creative and skilled studio, this year.

      --
      --Matthew
  11. State of the Art by adamy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have to agree with what he said about the way FPS need to evolve, but it seems to me the way to do that is not with killer new technology, but better usage of what is out there. I've recently finished thief-2. I think the concept of you go toe to toe, you die lead a lot to the interest I had playing the game. Let's face, a real human is pretty easy to kill. If some one starts shooting at you, chances are it is already too late. A single bullet, arrow, what ever, takes you out. Oh sure, I love quake and rune as much as the next guy, but some how thief really grabbed my interest.

    As I post this the majority of replies are below my (1) threshold. Guess angry feelings over ION storm still exist.

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    1. Re:State of the Art by NonSequor · · Score: 2
      Let's face, a real human is pretty easy to kill. If some one starts shooting at you, chances are it is already too late. A single bullet, arrow, what ever, takes you out.


      Try telling that to Max Payne. By the end of that game, even if he hadn't been shot several hundred times, he shouldn't have even been able to stand up due to all of the painkillers that he had taken.

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  12. Hmmm. by sulli · · Score: 3, Funny
    The immediacy of online raving and ranting encouraged a perpetual, streaming critique of Ion Storm. Flame Thrower and Bitch-X were the most nasty and vociferous gossips, running daily doses of rumor, innuendo and even fact. It's a typical media paradigm: put somebody on a pedestal and then kick it away. Their venom made the news irrelevant; the point was to bring down Ion. Everybody at work read these critics, argued or agreed (or perversely sent them the inside scoop), and the attacks didn't contribute to an optimistic environment.

    I was disturbed by the hate and bitterness on the message boards.

    Doesn't read Slashdot, does he?

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
  13. A Word of Support for John by coupland · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One thing the article alludes to that I can definitely corroborate is that John Romero has always been tremendously approachable and friendly to fellow gamers. He has never failed to respond to an e-mail I've sent him and will cc: just about anyone in the game industry to answer a question if he doesn't have one. He's sent me copies of his old Apple games on request and provided all kinds of info on old games, history, trivia. When he says "I'll check my old diskettes and send you an e-mail when I get home from work" he does, no exceptions. I'm not even in the media -- I just like games!

    In some ways the Ion Storm / John Romero situation reminds me a bit of the Microsoft / Bill Gates situation. While many people hate Microsoft and make Bill Gates the butt of every joke, very few people who know him ever call his character into question. While the very mention of Ion Storm and John Romero make some people hopping mad, very few people who have met John hold him in such disregard. Maybe people need to make a better distinction between a "company" and a "person." They aren't the same thing.

    1. Re:A Word of Support for John by tswinzig · · Score: 5, Funny

      While many people hate Microsoft and make Bill Gates the butt of every joke, very few people who know him ever call his character into question.

      Uhhh yeah dude, maybe because they are scared of his power? Why burn a bridge with BG if you want to do well in the industry?

      As for Romero, I agree. When they were working on Quake, and all the hype going with it, I decided one night to try a 'talk jromero@idsoftware.com' (or whatever his address was at the time). A few seconds later I was chatting with him at work. I think the conversation went something like this:

      JR: Hello
      Me: Whoa! Are you the real John Romero?
      JR: Yes
      Me: What are you doing at the office this late?
      JR: Dude, I just got in to work.
      Me: Cool.

      Ahh yes, those were the days.

      --

      "And like that ... he's gone."
    2. Re:A Word of Support for John by juju2112 · · Score: 2

      While many people hate Microsoft and make Bill Gates the butt of every joke, very few people who know him ever call his character into question. While the very mention of Ion Storm and John Romero make some people hopping mad, very few people who have met John hold him in such disregard. Maybe people need to make a better distinction between a "company" and a "person." They aren't the same thing.

      I think you're right. This reminds me of the whole Wil Wheaton thing -- where people bash on him for years only to find out here that he's actually pretty cool. Personal attacks suck, and they're especially ignorant when you don't know anything about the person.

      In addition, it seems like most people are attacking the Daikatana hype, and trying to say that the programers have 'hubris' -- when really, all the hype was just a function of the marketing department.

    3. Re:A Word of Support for John by coupland · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speaking of which, Brian Goble and Jason Hall of Monolith were equally as nice. I e-mailed them to ask how they first got involved with Microsoft and they told me it was by sending them a demo CD of their work. Then they asked for my address and mailed a copy of the CD directly to my home. WOW...

    4. Re:A Word of Support for John by Chibi · · Score: 2

      One thing the article alludes to that I can definitely corroborate is that John Romero has always been tremendously approachable and friendly to fellow gamers. He has never failed to respond to an e-mail I've sent him and will cc: just about anyone in the game industry to answer a question if he doesn't have one. He's sent me copies of his old Apple games on request and provided all kinds of info on old games, history, trivia. When he says "I'll check my old diskettes and send you an e-mail when I get home from work" he does, no exceptions. I'm not even in the media -- I just like games!



      Well, first of all, I think it's great that he does stuff like this, but think about it this way. A lot of people are talking about how approachable he is...maybe this is in a way, a bad thing. I mean, if you're trying to get some work done, and you have to go through 500 e-mails a day or people are sending you chat requests non-stop, it'll affect your productivity. I guess the lesson is to be able to try to balance these things (well, not the only lesson...).

      --
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    5. Re:A Word of Support for John by sheetsda · · Score: 2

      There seem to be quite a few people like this in the game industry. While working on a Half-Life mod a couple years ago I emailed the several people over at Valve Software a number of times, they always responded, sometimes within an hour and where applicable even sending me the code they used to achieve an effect I was looking to recreate (which was probably proprietary). John Carmack has also been known to post to slashdot from time to time especially on game and 3d rendering related issues. I have to wonder if there aren't quite a few people prowling slashdot who we've all heard of.

    6. Re:A Word of Support for John by Hard_Code · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nope, John is probably just getting what is coming to him for selling his soul to the devil for that wife of his.

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    7. Re:A Word of Support for John by coupland · · Score: 2

      Well, on this topic I see Carmack as the "Anti-Romero". While johnc is always polite in e-mail, he won't respond unless you ask a really well-thought-out question. Johnc's love is for programming and I really admire the fact that he will amputate any part of his life that takes time away from his true passion.

      Romero's love is for gaming and that's why he responds to e-mails, runs his web site, and is a walking encyclopedia of dates, releases, and trivia. But to compare him to Carmack is probably to do justice to neither. Slagging Romero because he doesn't have the single-mindedness of Carmack is counter-productive, as is complaining that Carmack has poor social skills. Take those qualities away and you'd have... well... an ordinary schmuck like me. :)

    8. Re:A Word of Support for John by coupland · · Score: 2

      You are an idiot. The failure of Daikatana can be pointed to some very business-specific issues, it's not because john was "nice" or slacked off. I hate to say it but his business acumen was horrific which made the promise date for Daikatana completely laughable. When things went sour at Ion (mostly due to Todd Porter) the onus fell on John to deliver. With a mutinous crew bent on the destruction of ION, John could not hope to succeed. He seems to have "started over" with completion taking precedence over quality. "Just to get the game out." I suggest the finished product was poor because it was created only momentarily before the game was published. With no programmers or artists it's hard to publish a game...

  14. No Sympathy by .milfox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry - The company that got the funding that could have gone to Looking Glass - Which made the *BEST* ever first person shooter, 'Thief', deserves none.

    But that's a nice long torrid soap opera in itself. And yes, they got the money because one team had a 'superstar', and the other dev team didn't.

    I perfer the one that actually shipped some incredible games which pushed the FPS genre to its limits, thanks.

    1. Re:No Sympathy by ivan256 · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but Theif was selling and Diakatana wasn't done. Someone inside could have looked at Diakatana and seen it wasn't going anywhere. Instead Looking Glass and Theif died and the world was blessed with Diakatana that looked like ass, wasn't fun, and was in the bargain bin in weeks... Sure funding Ion was a good idea in the begining, but when Ion had blown the initial cash, and still hadn't produced they should have dropped the Dallas office and canned Diakatana instead of dropping Looking Glass and flushing their money down the toilet.

      Then again, Looking Glass should have been able to get funding elsewhere....

    2. Re:No Sympathy by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      > Funding ION Storm was a sound business decision at the time

      What ignorance!

      Let's see, Eidos could support a company with a PROVEN track record (System Shock, Ultima Underworld, Thief) or a bunch of upstarts.

      Sound business decision my @$$.

    3. Re:No Sympathy by rcs1000 · · Score: 2

      Well. Funding ION Storm probably did Eidos no favours. The failure of Daikatana - launched (conincidentally) when Eidos's stock was at an all-time high - has meant people miss one of the greatest games of all time.

      Whenever anyone thinks of casting aspersions at ION Storm, they should think of Deus Ex. Few games have had the critical acclaim it had. I can only hope its succesor is as impressive.

      Nothing out Looking Glass - even the masterful Thief 2 - came close.

      Remember that. The $30m+ wasted on Daikatana and Dominion:etc. did produce one of the greatest games of all time.

      --
      --- My dad's political betting
  15. Why not call it "Daikatana"?? by Lordie · · Score: 2, Interesting
    As the story goes, Romero was introduced to the term "Daikatana" being used to describe a large, powerful sword during a game of D&D being DM'ed by John Carmack.

    "meiken" sounds like a shitty name for a videogame. "Daikatana" at least implies to the casual listener that a sword is involved.

    1. Re:Why not call it "Daikatana"?? by sammy+baby · · Score: 3, Funny
      "meiken" sounds like a shitty name for a videogame.
      Right, whereas "Tekken" just screams "ass-kicking action" to the casual listener.
  16. Re:My Opinion by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

    I don't know what is more funny? But yes I will reply.

    IT WAS A JOKE! I in fact am very white. But 1/4 is not.

    It's like a pun, you know.

    "Come to Cincinnati - You'll have a riot!"

    Joke
    Joke
    Joke
    Joke

  17. "Romero" gets a bad rap? by Havokmon · · Score: 2

    No wonder it was so hard to find a job..

    And here I thought it was just goofy Doom'ers on IRC that thought I was related..

    Rick Romero

    --
    "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
  18. Hmmm... by Raymond+Luxury+Yacht · · Score: 4, Funny

    From the looks of Stevie "KillCreek" Case, she's been working in *cough* silicon valley quite a bit since hooking up with Romero...

    --

    Ceci n'est pas une sig.
    1. Re:Hmmm... by mav[LAG] · · Score: 2

      Aha! I was wondering what this comment from the article meant:

      There were ... only 2.5 women at any given moment; it was good to have them around.

      --
      --- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
  19. Yet more self-serving revisionism by Doktor+Memory · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ah, once more with the same tune: "everybody who was talking trash about Ion Storm just wishes they could have worked there!!!"

    No.

    I suggest that anybody who is actually interested in the reasons why Ion Storm became an industry synonym for mismanagement and failure dig up the original articles by BitchX and Flamethrower that started off the whole public meltdown. Ion Storm did not fail because people were jealous of how well John Romero treated his friends. Ion Storm failed because Romero, Porter and Hall were incompetant managers who treated their talented employees like dirt, and focussed on creating a cult of personality rather than actually completing a game.

    Unfortunatly, as revisionist screeds like Divine's article prove, that cult of personality is Ion Storm Dallas' most lasting legacy, long out-living their forgettable games.

    --

    News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.

  20. I want my 10 minutes back by ellem · · Score: 5, Funny

    Reading that self-serving tripe was not anyfun; it was neither fun, not funny.

    Let me summarize all 5 useless pages.

    I knew Romero. He gave me a job. Everything you read was true but it was fun. Despite our best websurfing Ion Storm went under. I love John. I need a job.

    I want my ten minuutes back.

    --
    This .sig is fake but accurate.
  21. Some good lessons learned by Ooblek · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I believe Gamespot had an article come out right after Daikatana was released that chronicled what was going on at id and Ion Storm up to the release. I believe the lessons learned at Ion Storm are actually quite valuable, especially when someone is thinking about starting up *ANY* type of software company.

    I believe it was Carmack that made the observation that, "I can write software on a computer set on a cheap desk just as well as one set on an expensive desk." (I'm sure its not an exact quote, but the this is the gist of what he said.) As I have been going through negotiations to spin off a product from my current employer into another company run by a few of us employees, this type of wisdom was really needed. All the engineers are for renting a hole-in-the-wall and putting banquet tables in the cubicles, and the marketing person wants to rent a posh execuive office suite. Nevermind that our clients would never come to visit us or that we can't afford to employee anyone at a market wage. I'm sure she didn't read the story, even though I sent the URL.

    I think the bottom line is that software's largest cost is labor, and it should remain the largest cost. Making the company support the lifestyle of the employees or the partners is a mistake.

  22. My favorite quotes by jslag · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Daikatana and Deus Ex were finally released in 2000. Predictably, Daikatana was slammed while Deus Ex received many awards. Both made money for Eidos


    Misleading at best! Daikatana 'made money' in the sense that some copies were, in fact, sold, but you also need to consider how much was SPENT in the making...

    I envisioned the apocalyptic San Francisco as a psychedelic wasteland. But I learned how valuable my ideas were when I excitedly approached a designer about making a psychedelic level in Haight/Ashbury. "Yeah, man, sure, that's gay," was his arctic response.



    So, is the designer just the typical moronic FPS-playing homophobe, or is he positively affirming San Francisco demographics? The mind reels...

  23. Killcreek? by tommck · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    How can he babble on about distractions and such inside the company and fail to mention KillCreek's new breasts and their subsequent display (along with the rest of her body) in Playboy!?

    --
    ---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
  24. Overambition killed Ion Storm Dallas... by Zach+Baker · · Score: 2

    I think Daikatana and Anachronox were massively ambitious games of the sort you can expect when designers are given free rein to be truly bold (see also Black and White). But as the first game the team had worked on together, for many the first they had worked on at all, it would have been difficult even without the political shenanigans. I think we've all heard about the Third Law incident, and let me remind you that there were a total of five lead programmers, the last of which (Shawn Green) being the only programmer to span the length of the project. For another thing, as you seem to have noticed, the programmer who was working on sidekick AI left six months before the game went gold...

    1. Re:Overambition killed Ion Storm Dallas... by JWhitlock · · Score: 2
      I think we've all heard about the Third Law incident

      No, we haven't. Care to elaborate?

      Personally, I think what killed Ion Storm was that Valve was able to pull off Half-Life on the Quake II engine while Ion Storm was unable to pull off Daikatana. They both tried to do similar things (plot-driven first-person shooter), but Half-Life pulled it off without annoying AI bugs.

    2. Re:Overambition killed Ion Storm Dallas... by Osty · · Score: 2, Informative

      Valve was able to pull off Half-Life on the Quake II engine

      Let's make that statement both more impressive and true, all at the same time. How about "Valve was able to pull off Half-Life by starting with the original Quake I engine"? Half-Life was not based on Quake 2. There's no way it could've been (the two were released too close together for Valve to have had time to modify the Q2 engine). Valve did have a license to some of the Q2 code, and thus brought some of that into their engine, but the majority of the code began life as Quake 1. Just to prove my point, here is a quote from id's Technology Licensing Program:

      For teams that don't want to operate under the GPL, we're now offering a "non-GPL" QUAKE engine license for a flat fee of $10,000 per title ... Remember this engine is the foundation for what Valve did with Half-Life ...

    3. Re:Overambition killed Ion Storm Dallas... by icemind · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are so many reasons why ION died, you can't attribute it to one thing. For one, Daikatana was terrible. Utterly dire, and I'm not just following common opinion, I had to review the thing and complete it. The game was abysmal and would have been far better, maybe even *gasp* playable, if they had done the following:

      - Stopped doors killing your sidekicks
      - Stopped sidekicks shooting you
      - Removed the stupid tiny robo-bugs at the start
      - Removed the overkill "top slot" weapons (which 90% of the time killed you too) or make you invulnerable to your own shots
      - Muted the stupid friggin' sidekicks, or at least re-record them with decent voice actors.
      - Removed the stupid and out of place save gem system

      That would only have gone half way to making the side kicks useful though - every reviewer I know, including me, just told them to stay put at the start of the level, completed the level, then dragged them to the exit. They were just such a stupidly ill-conceived idea from the start. If you're doing sidekicks, make them invulnerable or expendable, not a liability.

      The hugely ambitious and overstretched development cycle didn't help either, people were sick of hearing about it by the time it finally came out, but the core of the problem was the above fundamental flaws in the game. I'm just stunned that they failed to spot and fix these hair tearingly annoying features. Romero was just given free rein to throw in a stupid amount of content (pointlessly - it would have been no better or worse with half the number of guns, levels or monsters). I'm sure in his pride he wilfully ignored the criticisms of the game too (as outlined above). It was a disaster waiting to happen. Even the excellent Deus Ex and Anachronox couldn't save ION Dallas (though Warren Spector and ION Austin still exist, thank goodness - eagerly anticipating Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3). Still, at least the games industry got this wake up call early, we shouldn't be seeing such blindly big spends again any time soon.

      In response to your question about Third Law, they are a games company formed largely from Ex-ION people who walked. Their first game was KISS: Psycho Circus (yes, as in the band, not as corny as it sounds though) which was a competent, decent enough shooter with some nice ideas, certainly a lot better than Daikatana. I think one of the guys who left said to Romero "you can't polish a turd" in response to a comment from Romero. Love that quote. :)

      -icemind

    4. Re:Overambition killed Ion Storm Dallas... by Zach+Baker · · Score: 3, Informative
      I don't think John was trying to make Daikatana a story-driven FPS. It was more like making a game that integrated RPG elements into a first-person shooter. That was really the source of the epic scope, sidekicks, leveling-up character and Daikatana attributes, save gems, time-traveling, multiple themed worlds, etc.

      And here's more about the Third Law drama (Third Law Interactive was the company they went off to start).

  25. There was a rise? by Sarcasmooo! · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's sad, really. I always hate to see bad things happen to pretty girls like John Romero.

  26. Re:Deus Ex and Anachronox by Xanlexian · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, not many people seem to have heard of Anachronox, much less played through it. Of all the games I've played over the years, it has the absolute best storyline and plot I've EVER played! There was (suspossedly) something like an extra 4-6 HOURS of dialog cut from the game to make everything fit onto the two CD's. I'd pay money just to be able to read the script.

    Interesting to note, Anachronox has also won "Best Story Award" from Gamespot (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/pc/bestof_2 001/p2_03.html) (I don't follow awards anymore. There's one for EVERYTHING nowadays... "Best use of a red pushbutton in an elevator in a FPS centered in futuristic Chicago".. It's coming... we've got 'em for everything else)

    Anyways, Anachronox was created using a heavily modified Quake2 engine. And, sadly enough, it seems that games tend to sell on pretty graphics, rather than gameplay.

    Also, practically everybody I know that has played through Anachronox has agreed that it definatly ranks wayyy up there on their list of all time favorites. It definatly does mine. (and yes, I know quite a bit of people that have played it through)

    Do yourself a favor -- go pick this game up. You'll be very glad you did.

    --Xanlexian

    --
    "Congratulations, Boots. Your robot has become self-aware. You're a daddy now." -- Dr. Rho Bowman
  27. Snoooze by The+Panther! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I kept reading, waiting for anything insightful in the five pages worth of descriptive melodrama, and came up empty.

    As a programmer in the game industry, I've had many friends work at Ion Austin over the years and all of them think very, very highly of Warren Spector. I'm really glad they have proven to be capable under his leadership.

    What I really disliked about Ion Dallas and John Romero's public image was the inherent cheapness. I liken it to a trailer trash lottery winner, embarassing everyone else in the industry with his grand standing. Sadly, Mr. Romero may be a fantastic designer, but all Ion Storm proved was his inability to run a company. There are some people who can do both, and he's not one of them.

    --
    Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
  28. Romero deserves what he's received. by Multiple+Sanchez · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As this story illustrates, Romero thought he could hire anyone who might remotely fit into the company. He wasn't interested in building a successful business: he was interested in building a company that was fun go to every day. But despite his puerile, myopic goals, he was given an outrageous amount of resources.

    In short, the existence of Ion Storm exemplifies the core philosophical flaws that led to the bursting of the "internet bubble." Companies like Eidos appropriated funds on the basis of hype rather than sound business ideas. By any objective standards, Eidos, John Romero and Ion Storm deserved to fail at every level.

    1. Re:Romero deserves what he's received. by Havokmon · · Score: 2

      There's nothing wrong with that. I agree entirely with the philosophy and I do the same, just not as 'big'. I enjoy my work. I like going to work. Had I the money, and the projects, I would hire my friends.

      But in making the workplace fun, you CAN'T lose your perspective. I think that's what happened. And from my personal experience, while I'm a good tech, I'm passive, and generally non-confrontational. Maybe John is similar..

      (Why is MY brother Romero a druggie, while other Romero's are doing cool things? *sigh* )

      --
      "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
  29. Killcreek's dual roles at Ion by Multiple+Sanchez · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Killcreek, Before and After. Or: how a woman can succeed in the gaming industry -- a story in pictures.

  30. Comments by John+Carmack · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the article:

    >But with great success came great antipathy, not just for John, but also for many of his
    >employees.

    The employees did sort of get a raw deal by association, but to ascribe all of the antipathy towards Romero to jealousy is really missing the point.

    >Daikatana and Deus Ex were finally released in 2000. Predictably, Daikatana was slammed while
    >Deus Ex received many awards. Both made money for Eidos

    Deus Ex made money. Daikatana lost an immense amount of money. We followed the PC-Data sales numbers for a little while, and it was really, really grim. It might have made a comback when it went to the bargain bin, but even if it had turned into the best selling game of the year, it wouldn't have covered the sunk costs at Ion.

    My view:

    Ion storm failued due to lack of focus, which came from the top. They had some great employees (we hired some of them!), but games don't get done without someone in a position of authority forcing everything together. Romero's primary mistake was believing that abstract creative design was a primary, or even significant, part of a successful game. The "strategic creativity" in a game is less than 1% of the effort, and if you put that on a pedestal, you will deephasise where all the real work needs to be done.

    I think Romero has a chance at a comeback with his current foray into handheld games. I don't think he ever lost the enthusiasm for games, but if he can recapture the personal work ethic that he had early on, he can probably still do some pretty cool things.

    John Carmack

    1. Re:Comments by JWhitlock · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Whoa - it seems a little unfair to have John Carmack reply. Still, I'd love to see Romero's response, if he feels up to it.

      I have to admit, lack of top-down leadership seems plausible. How else can you explain Half-Life being so good, and Daikatana being so bad? Same basic engine, but one lacked the ability to pull off the added extras.

      Still, there's a great book to be written on game design theory, from concept to box. I'd love to see some insight into id, which seems to have done well from shareware like Commander Keen all the way into the present, vs. the other teams that didn't quite make it. I'd love to hear what happened at Origin after Ultima 7. Anyone else have favorite untold game design stories?

      In my line of work, the boss has a saying - There's a time to shoot the engineer and ship the thing. Maybe in game design, there's a time to shoot the designers and let the programmers get it right.

    2. Re:Comments by ewhac · · Score: 2

      I have to admit, lack of top-down leadership seems plausible. How else can you explain Half-Life being so good, and Daikatana being so bad? Same basic engine, but one lacked the ability to pull off the added extras.

      I think your analysis may be a little simplistic. Half-Life originally started out as a Quake total conversion project. The designers began to get the sense that the end product wasn't going to be all that good.

      Ordinary business sense would say to simply focus the team, get the game out the door ASAP, and try to recover sunk costs. But that's not what they did. Instead, they admitted to themselves that the game they had so far wasn't that good, and either needed serious re-design, or to be abandoned completely.

      As part of this soul-searching, someone in the company made a new map that incorporated all the really cool elements they'd developed for all the other maps they'd made so far. It played exceptionally well, and everyone loved it. Someone said, "Great! Now all we need to do is make thirty or forty more of these." Half-Life was the result.

      The point I'm trying to make is that the team recognized that the direction in which they were headed wasn't leading anywhere. So they took stock of what they had, kept the best pieces, threw out the rest, and started over. Not an easy thing for anyone to do.

      Schwab

    3. Re:Comments by JWhitlock · · Score: 2
      I think your analysis may be a little simplistic. Half-Life originally started out as a Quake total conversion project. The designers began to get the sense that the end product wasn't going to be all that good.

      &lt Interesting stuff removed &gt

      The point I'm trying to make is that the team recognized that the direction in which they were headed wasn't leading anywhere. So they took stock of what they had, kept the best pieces, threw out the rest, and started over. Not an easy thing for anyone to do.

      Thanks for that insight - again, we could learn a lot if a good journalist asked the folks on successful projects what went right, what went worng, and what lessons were learned.

      I also wonder how many times Daikatana "started over" - wasn't it originally on the Quake engine, then they decided to start over on the Quake II engine? That would have been an excellent moment to do what the Half-Life team did...

    4. Re:Comments by NelnoTheAmoeba · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >Ion storm failued due to lack of focus, which came from the top.

      As someone who knows firsthand, I just have to say that John couldn't be more correct on that point.

      After devoting nearly every waking hour of my life to Daikatana for a year and a half I found that in the end it's goes nowhere if the effort was not applied toward a consistent goal.

      Imagine a single point with hundreds of random vectors originating from it. Add them together and they essentially cancel one another out.

      That point is Daikatana and those vectors represent the effort myself and others put into it over several years.

      Direction is important.

      And to maintain direction, you need focus. And that, truly, is what Ion lacked.

      Jonathan E. Wright

    5. Re:Comments by Cuthalion · · Score: 2

      I also wonder how many times Daikatana "started over"

      Well, an excellent account of the history of Daikatana is on the "news" site The Smoking Gun.

      Hey, it's on the internet, it must be true, huh?

      The Article

      --
      Trees can't go dancing
      So do them a big favor
      Pretend dancing stinks!
  31. Re:Salon's really outdone themselves this time. by NonSequor · · Score: 2
    You're complaining about an ad that is on the screen for less than 10 seconds. Quite frankly, I think you're a dick. Nothing's free. You do realize that don't you? Salon has to pay their writers. Salon offers you two ways of paying for their content, by paying for a subscription or by paying with a little bit of your time. Time is cheap.

    You are free to view these advertisements as a travesty against all that you love, but I think you are overreacting just a bit. Have you noticed how many advertisements there are in an average magazine? Advertisement is the way that magazines make money. Salon may be published online but it is still a magazine. You implied that you had been a Salon reader in the past. If you like their articles, why don't you calm down a bit and just not let the ads bother you?

    --
    My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
  32. But dude... by Doktor+Memory · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...didn't you hear? Design is law!

    --

    News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.

  33. Re:Off topic but related - Prey by flacco · · Score: 2
    Anyone remember Prey?

    Yeah, I remember waiting for it along with Unreal. (same timeframe I think).

    Now, here's a challenge - how about:

    LifeBane

    Anyone remember that? It wasn't even a game, I don't think - a guy just started posting screenshots and messages about how the game was coming along or something - it had a number of the "waiting for Quake" crowd interested :-)

    Or how about:

    Into The Shadows

    Had that impressive skeleton demo footage. Also came to nothing (they were writing it in assembler - is that the best choice for a game??)

    --
    pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
  34. The real reason Ion Storm failed... by SilLumTao · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    "He was a wise man who invented beer." -- Plato
  35. My Office is Better than Yours by PingXao · · Score: 2

    I worked in the same building for a time. The law office I worked for was on the 49th floor, at the top of the keyhole. Here's a picture of the Chase Tower (formerly known as the Texas Commerce Tower). Arguably, space at the top of the keyhole was more prestigious than the floors above, including 54, where you couldn't even see the keyhole space. Maybe that was part of their problem. Their office space wasn't cool enough.

    Another point of view regarding the Ion Storm office space was written up in 1998 here.

    Coincidentally, the lawyer I worked for had a thing for style and appearance. He spent too much time worrying about that and not enough about his cases. As a result he ended up losing a HUGE case, filed for bankruptcy, lost his house and his wife and Mercedes, and had to move to a low-rent district in Dallas. Lawyers seem to always land on their feet, much like cats, however, so now, 3 years later, he's doing quite well again. I wish the Ion guys the same good fortune.

  36. A rose by any other name... by why-is-it · · Score: 2

    What's most ironic about the Daikatana fiasco, the millions spent, egos dissolved, and promises broken, is that the game's title is an *egregious* mistranslation of a Japanese word.

    Never mind the booring gameplay, sub-standard graphics, pointless AI, the fact that it was such a resource hog that it could bring a top-notch PC to it's knees, and it was 2+ years late coming to market, it was the title that was the most obnoxious error!

    If the Daikatana team had looked in the history books, or consulted a Japanese expert, they could have avoided this travesty, and dumped the tongue-twisting word "Daikatana" in the rubbish heap. A small investment for quality.

    Naturally, a better title would have made all the difference in the world.

    Not!

    The Daikatana team could have avoided this travesty and dumped the whole project in the rubbish heap! It would have been a small investment for quality!

    I don't think that Daikatana has any positive lessons for the software or gaming industry. Just lots of bad ones...

    --
    *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
  37. Ion Storm coverage by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 2

    One of the best (IMHO) stories about the mess that was Ion Storm was by the Dallas Observer. It was covered in this old (1999!) /. article Ion Storm has Financial and Personnel difficulties. The story link is out of date as the Observer changed their website structure. The story is located here.

  38. Re: Design by Rocketboy · · Score: 2

    The "strategic creativity" in a game is less than 1% of the effort

    Goes a long way toward explaining why so many games are loser copies of old shit, doesn't it? Coding is easy; coming up with a worthwhile, original idea -- that's harder.

  39. Day of Defeat by sheetsda · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Anyone else have favorite untold game design stories?

    I suppose some might find this interesting, and it does demonstrate some of what John is saying. First a bit of background: Day of Defeat is a Half-Life mod, I was part of the original team with Lil Squirel and Das Juden. Today, the mod has been released and is mildly popular. Lil Squirel and Das Juden came up with the concept somewhere around October 99. Lil knew I was a programmer, so asked me to join, I gave him some ideas, but refrained from joining until December because I was busy with school. I left the team in late April 2000.

    DoD's initial design was killer. It had character classes, realistic damage, radar (yes, DoD had radar before CS), vehicles (jeeps, tanks), flame-thowers, grenades that you could dive on or throw back at your enemies, deployable tripod mounted machine-guns, and maps reminiscent of Saving Private Ryan, just to list a few; and this was just for version 1. We had all these incredibly cool concepts for effects and so forth but the team was so disorganised that nobody knew who was doing what; as John put it, there was no "someone in a position of authority forcing everything together". I was told to code the Thompson, I did and a short time later found out that it's code had already been written. I eventually got fed up with the whole thing and left the team. Apparently some time afterward the team underwent an overhaul and, to my surprize, eventually released Day of Defeat, I believe, over a year after its conception and with a different design altogether.

    1. Re:Day of Defeat by Hard_Code · · Score: 2

      Wow that would explain my confusion waiting for all the various and sundry exciting WWII vintage weapons and gameplay to appear. Even without all these cool features, it's a decent mod though.

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
  40. Re:Definitions of terms by John+Carmack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To elaborate a bit:

    Probably everyone reading this has done some "game design" while talking with friends. In an evening, you can lay out the basic character of a game -- what the player does, what the environments are like, what the obstacles are, what the tools in the game are like, what the plot is, what the style of the game is, and a few unique hooks for the game.

    There is not a hell of a lot of difference between what the best designer in the world produces, and what a quite a few reasonably clued in players would produce at this point. This is the "abstract creativity" aspect. This part just isn't all that valuable. Not worthless, but it isn't the thing to wrap a company around.

    The real value in design is the give and take during implementation and testing. It isn't the couple dozen decisions made at the start, it is the thousands of little decisions made as the product is being brought to life, and constantly modified as things evolve around it. If you took two game designs, one good and one bad, and gave them to two development teams, one good and one bad, the good dev team could make a good, fun product out of a bad design, but the bad dev team could ruin the most clever design. The focus should be on the development process, not the (initial) design.

    The games with 500 page design documents before any implementation are also kidding themselves, because you can't make all the detail decisions without actually experiencing a lot of the interactions.

    Putting creativity on a pedestal can also be an excuse for laziness. There is a lot of cultural belief that creativity comes from inspiration, and can't be rushed. Not true. Inspiration is just your subconscious putting things together, and that can be made into an active process with a little introspection.

    Focused, hard work is the real key to success. Keep your eyes on the goal, and just keep taking the next step towards completing it. If you aren't sure which way to do something, do it both ways and see which works better.

    John Carmack

  41. Let's not forget... by RobertFisher · · Score: 2
    This article seemed to be missing the most critical element in its analysis of the fall of Ion Storm. We all know that Daikatana would have been praised as a smash success had it included nude pictures of John Romero's girlfiend.

    Bob

    --
    Science, like Nature, must also be tamed, with a view turned towards its preservation.
  42. Rise and fall? by SCHecklerX · · Score: 3, Funny

    Shouldn't that be "Fall and Sink?"

  43. Re:Definitions of terms by Rick+Genter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    John,

    First let me say that I agree with your position for the most part. However, when we were developing Millennium Four: The Right back in 95-96, we ran into a problem that we were an unknown house with some commercial game dev experience, a killer idea, and no game engine. The only way we were able to get a publishing contract was by developing that 500 page design document; it was faster to do that than it was to put an engine together that showed our vision. It cost us 4 months, but allowed us to work for the next 14 months on the game.

    Unfortunately, our project got cancelled just as the game got interesting. Our publisher started going through hard times and cancelled a number of projects (I believe ours was one of about 15 that were cancelled), and we couldn't find alternative funding in time to keep going.

    "Focused hard work is the real key to success. Keep your eyes on the goal, and just keep taking the next step towards completing it. If you aren't sure which way to do something, do it both ways and see which works better." Wise words, but only doable with the resources to back you up. In today's AAA-class game development business environment, only the well-funded can survive.

    Rick

    --
    Don't underestimate the power of The Source
  44. Re:Jump off the bandwagon by telbij · · Score: 2

    Knock the company for making a crap game yes, but when it comes to personal stuff and how companies operate I say to each his own

    Agreed. Google likes to provide nice facilities for their employees, and it doesn't look like it has hurt their product.

  45. Cult of Personality by HiThere · · Score: 2

    "Cult of Personality". That has a ring. Just imagine the game scenarios you could build around that game...

    This is actually sort of half-way serious. I can't really imagine the play, but it's certainly a popular theme in history and politics.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  46. Re:Definitions of terms by Jagasian · · Score: 2

    No, actually, the logical and hence mathematical way to go about such a thing would be to do just what Carmack said, "Do both".

    It could be argued that what Carmack is preaching is a generalization of the elimination rule for the disjunctive logical connective ("or") in intuitionistic logic. You know "A or B" are options for constructing "C", and therefore you construct "C" assuming "A" as your choice AND you construct "C" assuming "B" as your choice. Either way, you are covered as far as constructing "C" is concerned.

    I realize Carmack isn't going by formalized logic or anything, but he is a very logical guy... so you can extract such things from his decision making. After all, formalized intuitionistic logic is supposed to reflect the thinking of the "creative subject". Of course, in the USA, students are usually only exposed to classical logic, which isn't "constructive" in the mathematical sense... so I am probably just pissing in the wind here.

    Also, who said that doing math excludes testing assumptions? When you are writing a computer program, it can be argued that you are writing a constructive proof (search for "constructive mathematics and computer science" on google). Several famous proofs have shown that constructive proof and program are the same thing (search for "curry howard isomorphism and computer science"). Surely you don't think that mathematicians sit in a meditation position, and then all of a sudden start writing a perfect proof proving what they were after. Just like writing programs, writing proofs requires many many many failed or partially successful attempts before a satisfactory proof is created.

    I mean, I doubt Carmack sits in his office and "divines" perfect code the first time. Though, I could be wrong ;-) Maybe he will take the time and write a "Mythical Man Month" type of book, where he tells us how he does it.

    Writing formal constructive proofs and writing computer programs are very much similar in how you go about doing the actual work. A computer scientist is another name for a mathematician. If you can't see the marriage between the two, then you have more learning to do.

  47. Hmmm, interesting article by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

    Before ION Storm crashed and burned (20 million down the drain which caused Looking Glass to close, the bastages) I thought John (Romero) was kind of arrogrant. His "Design is Law" quote did it for me.

    No, Design is NOT law -- Design *along with* Technology should dictate the game. Too much of either one, and you get a bad game.

    It's interesting to see it told "from the inside." I guess John is a nice guy after all, but it's hard to know that, when the media loved to put him on a pedestal, and then tear him down again.

    Unfortunately the damage has been done, and John has lost credability in the public. It will be interesting to see what he does next.

  48. "raping" Halo by Doktor+Memory · · Score: 3, Informative

    Tell that to Bungie who had to rape the original idea of what Halo was intended to be to fit Microsoft's plans and have it be yet another FPS game.

    For some reason this idea that Microsoft imposed by fiat radical gameplay changes on Halo keeps coming up here. At the risk of repeating myself... there's really just not a lot of evidence for the theory. Rumors of a change from 3rd-person to 1st-person perspective in Halo predated the Microsoft buyout by at least three months, and the basic storyline and gameplay mechanics of Halo appear to be largely unchanged since the E3 2000 demos. (Inasmuch as we knew what they were even then -- Bungie was smart enough to play it very close to the hip to give themselves room to work out playability issues as development progressed.)

    Obviously, internet multiplayer went out the window when Halo moved to the XBox, but Bungie apparently felt that was a reasonable sacrifice to make in return for being given several metric tons of cash and a guaranteed audience of millions for their flagship game. Can't say I blame em for that choice.

    --

    News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.

  49. My favorite memory of ION Storm by rcs1000 · · Score: 2

    I was lucky enough to go to the Eidos party at E3 in 1999.

    These were heady days. Daikatana was about to be finally released. The PSX was at its peak. PC gaming was growing, growing, growing.

    And I was standing next to Warren Specter in the queue.

    He told me who he was, and I asked why he was standing with the plebs, rather than going through the VIP route he was no doubt entitled to.

    Warren laughed and said he was with his team, and no way was he leaving them.

    It is a rare thing to see someone with such a reputation prefer his team to his convenience, and whatever happened to ION Storm I wish him well.

    --
    --- My dad's political betting
  50. Re:Definitions of terms by John+Carmack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > Clever design + bad dev team = Deer Hunter, so there is an argument to be made for both sides

    That is a really good example. I might quibble that that was market creativity, rather than game design creativity, but it is still a good point.

    John Carmack

  51. Re:Off topic but related - Prey by flacco · · Score: 2
    The producers of Into the Shadows are a alive and well, but has renamed themselves to Starbreeze Studios [starbreeze.com]. They have yet to release a game at all,

    Probably too busy entirely flashifying their site. Christ, tell them to offer a non-flash alternative.

    --
    pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
  52. Use Opera by DABANSHEE · · Score: 2

    I don't seem to have the problem when I use Opera

  53. Re:Definitions of terms by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've always been amazed by people's reaction to fame. Why was it so important for Carmack to waste his time signing your box? Why isn't it enough for you to just go up, say how much you enjoy his games, maybe shake his hand, and leave it at that? What is up with this autograph thing? Are you disappointed that you couldn't sell it or something?

    I recall a quote by a famous author, I don't remember who it was or the quote, but it was something like, "Why must they pursue the author? Why aren't my works enough?"

    Cut the guy some slack, and remember the celebrities are human.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  54. Re:Definitions of terms by 19Buck · · Score: 3, Insightful
    No one is ever going to read this because it's buried so far down now, but here goes anyway:


    JC makes himself VERY accessible to the community. Not only in his .plan updates (which are currently far and few between, probably to try and minimize hype for "DOOM3"), but he also regularly attends conventions and LAN parties, along with also giving workshops at them as well. And also appearing at keynote speaking events, then you have interveiws, written interviews, slashdot postings, not to mention the videos and blurbs on www.armadilloaerospace.com[armadilloaerospace.com] etc. etc. etc.


    Celebrities give up a good measure of anominity and privacy, the same is true for the people that develop the games we play and lovel. I'd bet dimes on the dollar that JC (or any of the Id staff for that reason) probably can't go out to dinner without at least one person wanting to stop them to talk. It's alot of pressure to be under, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if he gets a little aggrivated now and then. Romero is known to be a very good natured, and accessible person, but do you think he doesn't get aggrivated at times and just wishes that people would leave him the heck alone? Of course he does, but him and JC are different people. They will react to different circumstances in different ways. Neither you, nor I have any qualification to say which is right or wrong until you walk the miles in their shoes


    I've never met the man myself, but you've only met him once. Don't presume that can really sum him up by one short meeting in a crowded convention hall, where there is serious pressure to give attention to as many people as possible, which could be hundreds during events like that.


    "I don't want to get locked into signing these all day"


    Perhaps you failed to consider that maybe he simply didn't feel it would be fair to sign yours for you, and then ignore other people due to simple lack of time. It was very gracious of him to sign it for you, he would probably feel a bit guilty if he didn't sign something for everyone after that as a result.


    TROLL MODE ON - in summary: Stop being a selfish and judgemental prick. You don't know anything about the guy.TROLL MODE OFF