InfoSync Reviews Sharp Zaurus

Bill Kendrick writes "infoSync has just posted a very well-rounded (and long) review of the Sharp Zaurus PDA. Get out the kleenex - you'll be drooling." Gotta say, thats a sharp looking little device.

Comments

AmigaDE

[yota]

The Zaurus in a (not so) near future should feature the new AmigaDE (DE=Digital Enviroment).

Something about it is avaiable at http://www.amiga.com, any of you /.'ers know something more about this AmigaDE?

Andrea

Re:AmigaDE

[Ignominious Cow Herd]

AmigaDE should be Cool. It includes technology from the Tao Group called Intent. I'm not up on all the recent details, but originally this was a system that ran a small (~8KB) VM on each CPU and could translate from their byte-code system to native during the time it took to transfer the byte-code from: HDD, Network, or another CPU. Translation - you could run the same software on multiple CPUs OF DIFFERENT TYPES! On the same bus no less. Check out the Tao Group

Re:AmigaDE

[Jhan]

any of you /.'ers know something more about this AmigaDE?

Well, now that you mention it :-)

The AmigaDE (Digital Environment), as some people have already commented, is really (currently) just TAO Elate®. However, Amiga is promising (and have been, for months and months, without being able to show anything, sigh) to add substantial value to Elate® (more on that later.) However, Elate® is cool enough in and of itself:

Elate® is a cross platform framework much like Java. It fixes some major faults that both Java and C# has in common (if you can call .NET a cross-platform framework...). Someone should tell Sun and Microsoft both that if you are trying to construct a common platform that can be run on any processor, any hardware, any OS, you should not make it as large as possible, you should make it as slim and small as possible...

Java and C# both have very high level concepts built right into their VMs, like OOP and advanced memory handling (garbage allocation), not to mention retrospection. TAO, OTOH has taken a very minimal approach to the problem. They have defined a virtual processor, with a virtual machine code. When an 'object file' written in this VP (virtual processor) code is loaded, it is statically converted to the machine code of the host processor and cached on disk.

The code translation algorithm is so simple that one of their first (small but complete) VP->x86 translators was < 1kB. As mentioned the code is cached on disk, meaning that the next time the program is started, the cached native machine code version is run.

Elate® does have a few bells-and-whistles above pure machine-codeness though... An Elate® VP object file is called a 'ToolBox' (library). It contains Tools (functions). Each ToolBox has its own name space, meaning that you can have same-named tools (functions), if they are in different ToolBoxes (libraries).

All this was about Elate®, what about Amiga? Well, they intend to do three things:

1: Elate is very basic. It does not contain many of the things you would expect in a modern OS. So Amiga will provide AFC, the Amiga Foundation Classes, a class hierarchiy covering most everything.

2: Amiga will provide content (buzzword joy!) for the Amiga-enabled platforms. In reailty this means that a few months ago, Amiga pleaded (not too strong a word) on every Amiga news channel for any remaining developers to write PDA-ish games for DE (Elate). Some have. Some of these games are even great!

3: Amiga will provide a content distribution system, where you can easily buy single programs on the Internet (from your PDA-ish device) and have them installed. A feotal version of this is the DE Shop.

Oh, and as side note, the TAO Java Engine compiles Java classes into VP code, and then into native ML. It is one of the best performing JVMs in the world.

Re:AmigaDE

[.@.]

There's already a ROM available for the Zaurus that replaces the Linux/QTe environment with AmigaDE.

zaurus

[Anonymous Coward]

great little device... i acquired one just last week, as i wanted to start doing linux dev work, and my ipaq (while a great little device) just doesn't have the linux support i wanted. the keyboard and integrated CF+SD slots make it a lot easier to carry around (being that it's more compact), and i'm finding myself using the ipaq less and less.
if anyone is looking for a pocket linux device, i highly recommend this one...

Re:zaurus

[.@.]

I also have the Zaurus SL5000D and two iPaqs (a 3650 and 3850). While I agree with your comments, there is one small error: The iPaq can indeed run Linux. The Familiar distribution runs nicely on the iPaq, and includes a full X11 environment. If you'd rather not run X, the same Trolltech Qt/e that's running on the Zaurus will run on the iPaq as well.

Looks nice but...

[iGawyn]

This wasn't a review, this was a marketing speech about how cool it is. It's an attractive looking PDA, however, they don't tell you much useful information, just gloss over the attractive features, throw some more bullshit at you, and then tell you where to buy it.

Just because a reviewer may like a product doesn't mean that he doesn't have a job to do, to review it in great detail, give the specifications for it, talk about good and bad points, and the like.

Gawyn

Re:Looks nice but...

[faichai]

I don't know about, others, but from the article, I learnt _way_ more about the Zaurus than from any other article or press release.

I would say, that enough detail was given in the "review" for me to make my own mind up about the pros and cons of the device. Which I think is the basis of good journalism.

An article is never gonna be as good as having an actual device to play with. But kudos to Infosync for the information, and the many, many screenshots!

Re:Looks nice but...

[mattdm]

Huh. I'm not sure you read the same article I did. I know a lot of so-called reviews are indeed fluff these days, but this one doesn't seem to fit that at all. I'm a bit lazy right now or else I'd provide examples, but really, I don't think that's even necessary -- read the article and you'll see the above post is silly.

To any employee of Sharp ...

[TheViffer]

kudos to you for putting something like this out. It really is aimed right now toward the Slashdot geek power user who wants more toys .. you can never have enough I say.

But when I try to go to your web site and I see this bull shit message about how I need to download M$ Exploder to view your web pages, dont you think you have a CONFLICT of interest going here! Your running a product with a Linux kernel, but like hell if your going to get on our web pages if your running a Linux workstation running something like Mozilla or Opera.

Re:To any employee of Sharp ...

[Anonymous Coward]

hit up developer.sharpsec.com ... that one doesn't bother you with the IE downgrade ;)

Re:To any employee of Sharp ...

[pen]

Or just go directly to the order page.

(I'm not affiliated with Sharp.)

Re:To any employee of Sharp ...

[rhadamanthus]

Interestingly, if you were actually inclined to send them an email, you can only contact them via forms from the website, rather than sending an email. However, since the site supposedly "requires" IE, those who wish to "comment on the site" with regards to the lack of other browser support can't. What a way to minimize complaints! (oh and don't make fun of me. I am at work, and therefore am forced to use IE...)

--------------rhad

Re:To any employee of Sharp ...

[abischof]

BTW, this Sharp nonsense is Tech Evangelism bug 63915 at Mozilla.org.

Re:To any employee of Sharp ...

[Tim C]

From the page I get:

To fully experience the Sharp USA site, you need to have Version 4 or above of Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator Version 4.x. Download Internet Explorer

Attention Netscape 6 Users:
The Sharp-USA site uses DHTML and other advanced techniques supported by Netscape Version 4 and Internet Explorer Version 4 and above. We are in the process of upgrading so that Netscape Version 6 will be supported. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Cool your heels, friend, they're not forcing you to use IE, just to not use a gecko-based browser (or more likely, non-IE or NS4 browser) for the time being.

Cheers,

Tim

Think InfoSync...

[Count]

I think InfoSync is running there webserver off a PDA.

Re:Think InfoSync...

[CatherineCornelius]

You are in a beowulf cluster of Zaurus PDA's, all alike.

Zaurus is the future of PDA's

[jamesdood]

I have been using a zaurus for about a month now..
It is nice to have a machine with robust networking built in as opposed to the M$ pocketpc which is so slow it isn't even funny.. The consumer version should be cleaner than the development version but hey when you can run a webserver from a PDA that is extremely cool.. I can see the future of truly useful PDA's in the enterprise and the future is Linux!!

Re:Zaurus is the future of PDA's

[GroupCaptain]

I have to say it looks really cool, but after having used most PDAs since the first Apple Newton, cool doesn't make it a consumer product like the Palm. IMHO what makes it "consumer" is apps and synchronization. I am sure the apps will come, but I was dissapointed in the article because it talked nothing about synchronisation. What does it work with? At a minimum I would hope it does Outlook, Outlook Express, Netscape, Eudora, (Mac and PC where applicable) and given it's pedigree, I would dearly hope Ximian's Evolution. But it has to do it better than their Palm connection, and people have to write conduits for Linux as well as apps for the Zarius. Does anyone have any info on the Zarius' connectivity?

Re:Zaurus is the future of PDA's

[peccary]

when you can run a webserver from a PDA that is extremely cool

'course, Jim Rees wrote a web server for the Palm ages and ages ago.

Re:Zaurus is the future of PDA's

[jamesdood]

The sync features need some work.. it works over USB but the connectivity is somewhat limited.. it uses TCP/IP over the USB connection so this can cause some problems as well ( The default network is 192.168.1.x) this is a problem if you are running a private network with this address space. However changing that is no big deal. The sync functions do need significant improvement before this is released commercially. One cool thing is the ability to ftp over the USB link once you include the proper hooks into the linux kernel (see http://www.ruault.com/Zaurus/ppp-usb-howto.html) I see this device in more of an enterprise role and less of an end-user role however.

Re:Zaurus is the future of PDA's

[Docrates]

What in the world are you talking about? did you read the entire article? page 9 of the article states:

Synchronization

The Zaurus includes Qtopia Desktop for desktop synchronization. The sync process is very similar to a Palm HotSync, and in fact, Qtopia Desktop is eerily similar to Palm Desktop. If you prefer, the Zaurus also includes a copy of IntelliSync Lite, which allows you to synchronize Qtopia Desktop with either Palm Desktop or Microsoft Outlook.

If you use a GNU/Linux desktop instead of a Windows system, a version of Qtopia Desktop for GNU/Linux is also available, provided you have a USB-capable distribution. Sharp intends to have Mac OS X synchronization working soon, but it is not yet available.

Highly Informative User site

[bdavenport]

found this site run by a Disney employee.

has some very detailed info.

enjoy!

Puns

[TheTomcat]

Gotta say, thats a sharp looking little device.

"Hanging is too good for a man who makes puns; he should be drawn and quoted."
-Fred Allen

Zaurus Details @

[eples]

Here's a link to Sharp's FAQ page about the Zaurus SL-5500.

It features a built-in hideaway keyboard (nice!), color screen, and a bunch of other goodies. Available "Early 2002".

..was that a pun?

[eples]

I know it's offtopic, but:

Gotta say, thats a sharp looking little device.

Yeah, and Sharp makes it. Kinda like Sony stuff being "So nIce". Sharp stuff is... well, sharp!

Re:..was that a pun?

[fobbman]

While we're on the topic of...well...being off-topic:

"Get out the kleenex - you'll be drooling."

Well duh. I'm at my computer. The facial tissue box always just an armreach away.

ZauChu

[jarodss]

I know it's been mentioned here before, but I thought I'd jump in...

The Sharp Zaurus runs "Squeak", it's an open source programming language, it is a genuine, complete, compact, efficient Smalltalk-80 environment, you can read their licence here.

Check the
ZauChu homepage for more information on programming for the Zaurus.

Re:puns

[cosmo7]

freakier than that. from one of their websites:

The Sharp Corporation was founded in 1912 by Tokuji Hayakawa and takes its name from one of our founder's first inventions, the Ever Sharp propelling pencil, developed in 1915.

Mirror of pics

[shomon2]

I happen to be testing some web counter programs, so I was looking for something random to mirror. Hope it's not too offtopic then to post here my mirror of the pics that are running off said pda webserver:

Here you go

Getting them as we "speak" so please allow time.

Ale

Hey, the guy does some complaining.

[Bistronaut]

He mentions that the two memory slots would be better with little doors to keep stuff out, and he points out that the front panel buttons don't work unless the panel is all the way up or down. There is information on battery life (and Sharp's claims that it will get better.) Plus, it's not even the final product, so a real full review is not possible. Give them a break.

Biggest Thing

[SomeOtherGuy]

I think this has the chance to be the biggest (* non data center related) Linux success to date. It appears to have everything going for it..I guess the proof will be not only "in the pudding"...but also in availability, cost, and support. I would like to see these things on the shelf in mass quantity very soon. Based on how low on surplus the chains were on certain PDA's this passed holiday season....and still....I would say yesterday would be a good time to market. It seems that the right combination of price and options is what gives these things life in the marketplace. (When HP dropped the price of their "low end" color Pocket PC to $199.00 they were VERY hard to find in the stores. -- people figured that was a sweet spot...Not many people will be willing to pay as much for their PDA's as they have to for a desktop machine.)

Elite new Zaurus

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a Beowolf Cluster of THESE!!!

Re:reality check

[Derwen]

I don't know where you live, but "kleenex" has effectively replaced "tissue" here. It's one of those things you just deal with, like "hey, go get me a coke."

Yes, but where I live people can spot a joke - even the poor ones that I tell =o)

discards the major advantage of a Linux-based PDA

[markj02]

The major advantage of a Linux-based PDA is that it allows a huge amount of software to be ported quickly, and that it allows developers to use many different kinds of tools to develop for the PDA. What software and tools you say? All the stuff developed for the iPaq and AgendaVR3, all the stuff developed with cross-platform toolkits other than Qt, all the little WindowMaker apps, all the stuff developed for Windows (via compatibility libraries). Also, much of the X11 display code from big-screen apps can be reused on little screen devices, even if the GUI itself ends up having fewer buttons. X11-based displays also allow programmers to reuse their expertise and create new apps quickly.

Unfortunately, by using Qt/Embedded, the Zaurus partially loses that advantage: while you can muck around with VNC, in reality, the only apps any end user can run on it are Qt/Embedded apps--Qt takes over the screen. On the Zaurus, it's Qt or nothing. Software needs to be ported. Display code needs to be rewritten. Programmers who want to program the Zaurus must spend the time to learn it and use it and build new tools for it. While that isn't hard for an experienced programmer, it still is a lot of wasted time. Note that this is different from Qt on the desktop, where, through the magic of X11, Qt apps live happily side-by-side with other apps.

There is no real reason for this. If you download the Qt/Embedded and Qtopia demo and run it, you'll see that it uses up about 9Mbytes of RAM, considerably more than an X11 server and X11 apps running, say, on the AgendaVR3. And Troll Tech's own description of Qt/Embedded claims that its resource usage ("800k to 3M", depending on configuration) is comparable to that of an X11 server (which takes around 1M in a configuration suitable for handhelds).

What Sharp should do is create an X11 server for the device and recompile their Qt-based apps to use the X11 server. Then, the Sharp will be a standard Linux PDA. The way it is, the Sharp is, for practical purposes, a very slick looking but proprietary device. And that's not what Linux systems are supposed to be about.

Re:a message from our sponsors

[Bill Kendrick]

Hehe - Hey, damnit! I went to Borders the other day and they didn't have Linux Format, like they usually do. What, am I going to have to SUBSCRIBE to the damned thing!? :)

(Keep up the good work, btw!)

Brought to you by lots of Coca Cola (because that's the only cola they had at Blimpies, makers of fine submarine sandwiches!)