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Scientific American On Bad Patents

dltallan writes: "Scientific American has a short article in which Gregory Aharonian presents his picks for the four worst patents granted. I like the patent for training with manuals (1998)." The Bustpatents site is worth spending some eye-rubbing time on.

227 comments

  1. How about the telephone? by pjbass · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You know, the patent of Gene Profiling or Effectiveness of an Ad is a ubiquitous as ignoring two little kids attaching Cambpell soup cans with a string as prior art to the telephone. I understand that there are rules and regulations that are followed to grant/deny patents, but these two seem like I can patent the art of breathing and collect royalties all over the world...

  2. Funny authors by Raetsel · · Score: 2, Funny

    I can't be the only one that finds humor in
    • "U.S. Patent 5,851,117: "Building Block Training Systems and Training Methods"; Keith A. Alsheimer and others..."
    Absolutely hilarious!!
    --

    "...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
    1. Re:Funny authors by nurightshu · · Score: 1

      This is why I always forget how I built my cool Lego(TM) models when I was a kid!

      --
      They that would sacrifice their .sig space for that cliched Franklin quote deserve neither.
  3. Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by SlashChick · · Score: 3, Funny

    From the article: "Three-Dimensional Presentation of Multiple Data Sets in Unitary Format with Pie Charts"

    Gah, and you thought Marketing was the only group that made up complex phrases to describe something so obvious. ;)

    1. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by mpe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the article: "Three-Dimensional Presentation of Multiple Data Sets in Unitary Format with Pie Charts"
      Gah, and you thought Marketing was the only group that made up complex phrases to describe something so obvious.


      It appears to be commonplace for patent applicants to use overcomplicated language and jargon in an attempt to convince patent examiners that something is original.
      The best way to stop this would be to have a rule that if an application can't be understood then at least that application is void, possibly any future application for something similar is also voided.
      Another important thing is that the "obvious", to people skilled in the relevent area, may well not show up simply because people don't put obvious things in journal papera. Because doing so would be redundant.

    2. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1

      bash$ echo "From the article: \"Three-Dimensional Presentation of Multiple Data Sets in Unitary Format with Pie Charts\"" | grep -v "bullshit"

      output:

      "3D Pie Charts"

      One fooled the clerk... the other would be sure to surface a gut wrenching guffaw from the poor lonely clerk. Imagine working in complete, mind-numbing silence for 6 hours, leafing through endless mounds of paper... then stumbling upon that one... I swear I'd die laughing.

    3. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by -brazil- · · Score: 1
      You mean pie charts are also uses by non-Marketing people???


      Well, I suppose it must have been people in the legal department who submitted it, and believe me: Maketroids don't hold a candle to lawyers when it comes to verbal smokescreens!

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    4. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by SPYvSPY · · Score: 1

      Can't be understood by who? You?

    5. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It probably makes searching for existing material more difficult. If you do a search for "multiple data sets in unitary format" you'd get far fewer results than if you did a search for "3d pie charts"

    6. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by nytes · · Score: 1

      I think the best way to overcome this is simply to reinstate the requirement that a working prototype (or demonstration) be supplied.

      Upon demonstration of something like pie charts, the patent examiner would just say "you've got to be kidding", and stamp a big, red, "REJECTED" on the application.

      I also think that invention should be distinguished from the natural evolution of technology. The former could be patentable, the later should not be.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    7. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by mpe · · Score: 2

      It probably makes searching for existing material more difficult. If you do a search for "multiple data sets in unitary format" you'd get far fewer results than if you did a search for "3d pie charts"

      Which is the point of using such language in the first place. Not being able to find something in a search means that patent examiners are more likely to consider something to be an "innovation", when really they might do better issuing a patent on the jargon used in the patent application :)

    8. Re:Three-Dimensional Presentation of Wha...?! by mpe · · Score: 2

      I also think that invention should be distinguished from the natural evolution of technology. The former could be patentable, the later should not be.

      THis is the sort of thing the criteria of an invention not being obvious (to someone knowlagable in the relevent area).

  4. /. patent infringement by Tibe · · Score: 1

    "A patent issued in 1999 outlines a system for garnering feedback on the effectiveness of a new advertisement or broadcast commercial by comparing it with a control advertisement."
    ha! osdn should be paying us for our role in determining there ad's effectiveness.

    1. Re:/. patent infringement by akiaki007 · · Score: 1

      Why? All non-slashdot images get blocked. I gotta love that "Block images from this server" function in Mozilla.

      --
      "Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
  5. Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by EraseEraseMe · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Maybe it's time to stop the revolving door policy and really push for a more strict guideline to what is acceptable for a patent application.
    • Documented Research and Development
    • Resource Usage on R&D documented
    • Professional Acceptance of Patent (Maybe a part of the USPO acts as a mentor program(?)
    • Possible Prior Art and Explanations why it is not (I really like this one)
    • Penalties for Obvious Patents
    • Business Models and complex sociological functions unpatentable
    • Physical patents require working model
    • Web related patents with comparable real-life applications unpatentable (Amazon One-click)
    And the list goes on and on
    --
    "Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
    1. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by rhekman · · Score: 2, Informative
      Physical patents require working model

      Models used to be a requirement until the Patent Act of 1870, which left it up to the Patent Office commissioner. Space and time constraints really don't allow the luxury of model examination and storage by the PTO. ( Patent Office History ).

      Add to your list better cataloging and indexing of patent documentation, advanced electronic search and cross referencing of patent files, and better paid, more experienced patent examiners.

      Regards

      --
      I like teamwork. It's easier to assign blame that way.
    2. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by niola · · Score: 2, Insightful

      * Professional Acceptance of Patent (Maybe a part of the USPO acts as a mentor program(?)

      To take this step further, what about a committee made up from representatives from all different competing businesses to provide some oversight?

      Wouldn't it make sense for the industry to police itself since it is in their best interests to ensure that only legitimate, truly unique innovations are patented?

      --Jon

    3. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by hoggy · · Score: 2, Informative
      I don't know much about the US Patent Office, but the UK one has pretty sensible guidelines (from www.patent.gov.uk):


      To be patentable your invention must:

      * Be new

      The invention must never have been made public in any way, anywhere in the world, before the date on which an application for a patent is filed.

      * Involve an inventive step

      An invention involves an inventive step if, when compared with what is already known, it would not be obvious to someone with a good knowledge and experience of the subject.

      * Be capable of industrial application

      An invention must be capable of being made or used in some kind of industry. This means that the invention must take the practical form of an apparatus or device, a product such as some new material or substance or an industrial process or method of operation.

      "Industry" is meant in its broadest sense as anything distinct from purely intellectual or aesthetic activity. It does not necessarily imply the use of a machine or the manufacture of an article. Agriculture is included.

      Articles or processes alleged to operate in a manner clearly contrary to well-established physical laws, such as perpetual motion machines, are regarded as not having industrial application.

      * Not be "excluded"

      An invention is not patentable if it is:

      * a discovery;
      * a scientific theory or mathematical method;
      * an aesthetic creation such as a literary, dramatic or artistic work;
      * a scheme or method for performing a mental act, playing a game or doing business;
      * the presentation of information, or a computer program.


      Also, again I don't know the situation in the states, but from the moment a patent has been filed - note: not granted - it is open to the public to examine. In fact a popular science programme on television here (Tomorrow's World) used to (may still) have a section called "Patent Pending" where they showcased interesting applications.

      We seem to have far fewer stupid patents here. Although cross-border agreements to honour patents (largely driven by the US) are breaking down national legislation on this.
    4. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by Stiletto · · Score: 2

      Also, again I don't know the situation in the states, but from the moment a patent has been filed - note: not granted - it is open to the public to examine. In fact a popular science programme on television here (Tomorrow's World) used to (may still) have a section called "Patent Pending" where they showcased interesting applications.

      That's an excellent idea. How about a game show that allows contestants to win a prize if they can find prior art and invalidate a patent that has been applied for?

      Any producers out there reading /.??

    5. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by AvatarADVathome · · Score: 1

      So don't require the model to be submitted, just require that the patent holder be able to produce one on legal challenge. Be generous - if you patent a revolutionary turbine system, and it gets challenged, and you're still halfway through development, then take the judge for a tour of the lab where it's being developed. The idea is to prevent vaporware, after all.

      All the other suggestions are, of course, not bad ideas of themselves. Add the normal software patent rant somewhere in here too.

    6. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by Speare · · Score: 2

      [stock rant on the subject]

      Patents are not about who is right, or who is first; patents are about who will sue.

      The US PTO is a money-making service for the government, and this fact is why it operates as it does.

      There is a misconception that it is the central duty of the PTO to form a blockade against granting patents. The PTO can and will block applications where there's heavy similarity with prior art or existing patents, but that's really just a guideline to using the service, not the core function.

      The PTO's purpose is to grant patents for a fee, and it's wholly suited to do so.

      The application vetting process of the PTO is a cost center for the operation of the PTO. This is akin to saying that customer service is a cost center for the operation of AT&T. It is required, but they'll cut costs as much as they can get away with.

      To fix the patent application vetting process, two things must happen:

      • Congress must stop using the PTO's filing fees as a revenue source for other pet interests instead of the PTO's own budget, and
      • The PTO needs to allow third parties to aid the vetting process by challenging potential patents before they're granted.

      As of 15 March 2001, the USPTO has changed their policies to partially solve that second problem. They can now publish patent applications before the patent itself is awarded to the applicant. Third parties may now submit "helpful" arguments against controversial applications. The USPTO can then weigh obviousness against challenges without incurring the costs of doing all the searching themselves.

      Breaking patents by finding simple prior art is not enough for most cases. Patents already granted are almost never cracked, certainly not by someone using an independent third party's prior art. In the famous Heinlein/Waterbed case, the patent was denied before it was ever granted by the Patent Office. Once a patent has been granted, the Patent Office rarely will get involved in disputes; that is a matter for the courts.

      [end of stock rant on the subject]

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
    7. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by Destoo · · Score: 1

      A patent is a negotiable contract between the patent owner and the U.S Government comprising a private property right to exclude others from making, using, or selling a claimed invention.
      Patent must meet four tests of patentability:
      Subject matter
      Novelty
      Non-obviousness
      Enabling description

      This information is also at Cambia IP ressource.

      --
      Nouvelles de jeux et technologies en français. TC
    8. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by dillon_rinker · · Score: 2

      [In the UK] An invention is not patentable if it is:

      [Some deleted]
      * mathematical method
      * a scheme or method for performing a mental act playing a game or doing business
      * a computer program


      The US once had similar restrictions. I don't know if they were formally lifted, but there was an easy workaround: patent a device that implements it. Your algorithm, theorem, game, or program could be implemented by someone else with paper or pencil, but no one could produce a machine that would implement it.

    9. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 2

      It is common to confuse government and educational institutions as corporations, as they often operate like them. But where a corporation's goal is to earn as much money as possible by whatever means, government and educational institutions goal is to accomplish a predefined task while losing as little money as possible. This is why our nation does not have huge cash reserves, and often spends more money than it takes in. Most people for who work for the government are grossly underpaid (our president, the highest official in the government, makes about $400,000 a year-- mere pennies compared to Fortune 500 CEOs and with much more responsibility.)

      Also, government agencies (with the exception of the IRS) rarely share the money they take in. I wouldn't doubt that all the money the PTO pulls in goes towards PTO-related activities, with some tax dollars thrown in for good measure. Government agencies bleed cash, but that's okay. The government is there to do things that aren't profitable but need to be done anyway. This is why they take 20-40% of our income every year.

      Though I do agree with you that the patent system is grossly mishandled, and does need some sort of third party review. Originally it was not intended as such, and worked well for 150 years, but with the dawn of mega-corporations and high-speed communications, the individual tends to be drowned out. And I do agree that software should be non-patentable. Code should be copyrighted, but an algorigm/method used in software should not be patented (a la One-click.)

      And of course, I could just be talking out of my ass.

    10. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by J.+Random+Software · · Score: 1
      There is a misconception that it is the central duty of the PTO to form a blockade against granting patents.

      Of course it's their central duty. Since "the Congress shall have power to promote the progress of science and useful arts", they can't delegate to the PTO the power to grant bad patents because they don't have it. What the PTO is getting away with is unconstitutional.

      The PTO's purpose is to grant patents for a fee, and it's wholly suited to do so.

      A notary public with a photocopier could do that. What do they do with all that labor and money, if not attempt to detect invalid patents?

    11. Re:Suggested Guidelines for Patent Application by J.+Random+Software · · Score: 1

      That's enough to support six four-person households at median income. The fair price of labor is only what it takes to lure qualified people away from whatever else they could be doing, and there was no shortage of candidates I'd prefer over the current appointee.

      I wouldn't doubt that all the money the PTO pulls in goes towards PTO-related activities, with some tax dollars thrown in for good measure.

      I can't find anything more definitive than an old open letter, but I've been seeing unrefuted claims for a long time that not only is the PTO self-supporting (thus the steep fees that exclude small inventors) but Congress regularly swipes their surpluses for unrelated uses.

  6. The author by OO7david · · Score: 1
    Steve Ditlea is a journalist based in Spuyten Duyvil, N.Y. He has been covering technology since 1978.
    Quick, patent the meathod for covering technology!! I mean, it apparently worked for pie charts, you could be raking in cash.


    Disclaimer: I have now been up 36 hours, if this is not funny, darn.

  7. It Reminds Me.... by robbyjo · · Score: 2

    of this humor. (Scroll down and read the sociology part).

    --

    --
    Error 500: Internal sig error
    1. Re:It Reminds Me.... by robbyjo · · Score: 1

      These sentences should follow that humor:

      And, don't forget to submit your methodology to Patent's Office. Ding! Ding! Ding! Patent awarded!

      --

      --
      Error 500: Internal sig error
  8. Why is the system not changed... by comic-not · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...so that all patent applications would be automatically acknowledged, and then the dubious ones could be challenged by any interested party? The patent office would not have to employ enough specialists to sort out the validity of every silly application, they would only have to have enough knowledge to be able to verify the claims of people who dispute the alleged patent.

    Comic-not

    --
    Existence usually comes as a surprise (Idem)
    1. Re:Why is the system not changed... by AgentRavyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a downright horrible idea.

      1) With the way the system currently works, patents aren't easy to overturn, even with substantial prior art.

      2) Everything and anything would be patented (things even more rediculous), and the USPO would have to spend more time overturning all the senseless ones. At least they're disalloqing some of the patents at the moment.

      My 2/5 of a nickel.
      --ravyn

      --
      ___
      I'm an exhibit on the mounted animal nature trail.
    2. Re:Why is the system not changed... by rblancarte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why? Two words:
      COURT COSTS.

      In doing this you would have SOOOOOOO many court battles that most companies would just build a court room in their HQ just to save travel time.

      The problem is that too much fluff is making it through now, why would passing everything be better?

      --
      It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
    3. Re:Why is the system not changed... by comic-not · · Score: 1

      I may not have stated the idea clearly enough. If patent applications were public and disputable from the day they were sent to the patent office, then anybody could submit instances of prior art, which would invalidate the patent claim once verified. This way, effectively, the community as whole would review the patent applications, and the actual work of the patent office would change from searching (not too adeptly) cases of prior art to verifying claims of prior art. I am starting to see an analogy to open/closed source software development here, which must mean that I have read too much /. lately.

      Comic-not

      --
      Existence usually comes as a surprise (Idem)
    4. Re:Why is the system not changed... by comic-not · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But they would never have to go as far as to the court (BTW, I've never understood the American court frenzy either). Let's say that company Foo.com submits a patent application for no-click shopping. Upon submission, the PTO verifies that the claim is potentially patentable (i.e., it's a formally valid and sensible claim). The application is acknowledged and made public. Then another company Bar.com sees the application and submits proof that no-click shopping has been used well before Foo.com. The PTO (not the court) verifies the claim and invalidates the patent.

      The PTO would not have to find prior art itself if it could tap the resources of the community for that, otherwise it would make decisions on the same grounds as today. Also, considering the extended processing times of recent patents, especially IT patents are either obsolete or then overtly general in scope once they come out of the mill (independently of whether software should be patentable at all). The kind of shortcut I was suggesting would cut the processing time to minimum, if the patent could be immediately exercised until contested.

      Ok, I'm a scientist, and on that field the process has proved to be very effective. Someone claims something, and then everybody is free to try to prove otherwise. Every hypothesis is held potentially true until falsified, but nothing is ever proved true, only the most plausible/widely accepted theory.

      Comic-not

      --
      Existence usually comes as a surprise (Idem)
    5. Re:Why is the system not changed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do some people write their post's first sentence half in the title and half in the body? Why?! It annoys the piss out of me. I can deal with the inanity of most /. posts, but when I read a comment that starts with the ass-end of a sentence, then to make sense of it have to go back and read the title, it's more than I can take. It's little things like this that can send someone over the edge. Please stop it!

    6. Re:Why is the system not changed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So in another words, my secret patent should be sent out to everybody so that somebody could build it before I get my patent approved and call it prior art?

    7. Re:Why is the system not changed... by Katharine · · Score: 1

      They could try, but that's not how prior art works. Prior art is something that is "prior" to the date that you invent something, which is assumed to be at the latest the date you file the patent application. So, in order to invalidate your patent in the way you envision, the person would have to show that they invented it before you did. Assuming that the person did not really invent it before you did, this might not be so easy to do . . .

      FYI, the current law is that most patent applications are published 18 months after filing, whether they are granted are not.

    8. Re:Why is the system not changed... by ferat · · Score: 1

      Why not just open up the patent office?

      Someone applies for a patent. The patent is "reviewed" by the PTO, then placed on a public accessable website for, say, a year. during that time, the general public can submit prior art. There are enough bored, interested, people out there that at least the really obvious ones would be weeded out.

    9. Re:Why is the system not changed... by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We don't need to automatically accept patents, we just need the review part. How about this:

      Patents are first checked by the patent office for validity. If the patent passes that phase, then it goes on public display as a provisional patent. The person attempting to get the patent must post a bond of, say, $5000. Anyone can submit a challenge to the patent by paying a fee equal to the difficulty in reviewing their challenge. The first person to invalidate the patent by showing prior art, or any other method approved by the patent office, gets paid the $5000. If no one comes forward for a year, then the patent is presumed valid and non obvious, and the money is returned.

      Each of us is an individual. And the name of that individual is Clancy Jones - Clancy Jones #185

  9. already done. by digitalunity · · Score: 4, Funny

    The USPTO has just granted my first patent, #6,356,233. Clearly stated, I claim that respiration of 21.4 small breaths per minute is the ideal respiration of a human and I claim that this specific breathing rate is a design of my own creation. Anyone currently breathing at this rate must license this FreelyBreathing® Respiration rate from me. Don't worry, my AUP and End User License are very flexible!

    --
    You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    1. Re:already done. by Klerck · · Score: 0, Funny

      "I patened basic-thing-x" jokes get funnier every time I read them!

    2. Re:already done. by Molina+the+Bofh · · Score: 4, Funny
      I have #6,450,530, that states:

      United States Patent 6,450,530
      Molina the BOFH , et al.

      Method for moderating messages at Slashdot
      Abstract
      A computer complete with keyboard, internet access, a mouse, a CRT monitor for causing the computer information to be displayed, registration to Slashdot, a browser.

      The user needs the computer to access, via the browser, Slashdot's web site. He then identifies himself, using his login and password, thus being granted moderator access. Then, using the monitor, locates any article, clicks on the "read more" link, wich shows more data, that doesn't need to be read. Then he can choose 5 absolutely random messages, and assign absolutely random scores to it. It's advisable not to read the actual content of the messages, in order not get biased by its content. It's advisable to have a random generator (a.k.a. dice) to be more impartial when choosing among funny, informative, insightful, overrated, underrated, offtopic, etc. Then click on the "moderate" button, using the mouse.

      Attention moderators: I can charge from you. However I will not charge a cent from you if you moderate my message up. :)
      --

      -
      Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
    3. Re:already done. by Rentar · · Score: 2
      A computer complete with keyboard, internet access, a mouse, a CRT monitor ...

      So moderating via a computer with a TFT monitor or without a mouse (or using only a mouse) is not yet patented?

    4. Re:already done. by Marcus+Brody · · Score: 2

      this specific breathing rate is a design of my own creation.

      This specific breathing rate is a design from Nature. You state that Nature is your own creation. Therefore, you must be....... God!

      I once heard that you (God - patent #1) is an all powerful, ever present, all knowing Great Entity. Therefore, you must have thought of everything, and knew everything, at the Dawn of Time.

      Does this not mean that the basis of any patent, ever, anywhere, was already known by God? Does God not have prior art on *everything*.

      Therefore, all patents everywhere must be invalidated if the law accepts the existence of God.

      Edmund, I have a cunning plan........

      The Christian far-right of America and Slashdot Readers everywhere must join hands in a holy union to fight the evil powers of MS, RIAA, and the Devil (patent #2).

    5. Re:already done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Wow. That got unfunny about 2/3 of the way through the first sentence. Then it dragged on for several more. By the time I was done reading it I was so bored I wanted to gouge my eyeballs out just so I wouldn't have to read another one of your posts again.

    6. Re:already done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alter relationship --> Foe

      Dumbass. Beats gouging your eyes out. On second thoughts, maybe you should try it. One less troll......

    7. Re:already done. by jeorgen · · Score: 1
      On a more serious note, thake a look at the Buteyko site to see how much you should breathe.

      Cheers
      /jeorgen

    8. Re:already done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you dont like it, dont read it. and if you do, dont post your reasons why it sucks. nobody wants to hear your opinions, jesuslover

    9. Re:already done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That abstract is nowhere near as incomprehensible as it should be.

  10. The Problems of Quantity not Quality by rblancarte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While this article is really funny to read, it just shows the problems that are now going on at the PTO. There are two main problems - the first being what this article points out - that the agents are not doing enough research to make good judgement. It makes you wonder how much of a background in these particular fields the patent agents have?

    The other problem is that the PTO has gotten to the point where people are actually rewarded for issuing as many patents as possible. This is a system that really has to be reviewed. It has gotten the PTO to the point where they basically pass EVERYTHING and then let the courts throw out the frivilous stuff. What a waste of time, and even more money since court costs can be astronomical.

    This doesn't even raise the problem of issues like people patenting something in HOPES that it becomes an industry standard and only when it is well entrenched - THEN do they say - I HAVE THE PATENT!!! Um, isn't the whole idea that anyone can come up with idea prove that the need for the patent is dumb?

    While the PTO was origionally started as a great idea, over the past two decades things have just gotten out of control. Software and Business Methods are something that are just so unreasonable to patent that the PTO needs to either go back and decide:
    1- this is something that will have to be SERIOUSLY researched before a patent is issued, OR
    2- These are just things that CAN'T be patented

    Good luck to them, because either way, they have a big problem facing them.

    --
    It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
    1. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by mpe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The other problem is that the PTO has gotten to the point where people are actually rewarded for issuing as many patents as possible. This is a system that really has to be reviewed.

      Maybe something more like rewarded for processing as many patents as possible. Which would include rejecting ones which were questionable or incomprehensible.

    2. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by dunstan · · Score: 2

      Exactly right. The PTO is issuing dubious patents on the basis that they can always be struck down later if they turn out not to be justified. This has a number of problems.

      It is far too easy to devise a product which unknowingly infringes an "obvious" patent. The patent holder will issue a "cease and desist" notice on the infringer. At this point the infringer has two options: to comply, and probably go out of business, or to fight. If they choose to fight, they have to engage lawyers, go to court, shell out squillions of dollars etc., and if they lose, they will then be liable for punitive damages for knowingly continuing to infringe, and will go out of business.

      Now, if the patent holders are big corporations with deep pockets, and the infringers are small software developers who are coming up with competing products, you can see how the marketplace may end up without competitive products. The patent system is perverted from being a way of protecting inventors from being ripped off by corporations (ala James Dyson) and is instead a legal artifice which corporations can use to crush the little people.

      Dunstan

      --
      The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
    3. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by mavenguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is from an ex-GS-1224 (Patent Examiner)

      The issue of quantity vs. quality has been a long standing issue in the PTO; it was a raging issue back when I joined in 1973. In the "olden days" (say up until the 1960's, according to the then lore) an examiner could make multiple rejections against an insistant applicant; the ethic was to reject claims. Also, the examiner's judgement was given high authority, and applicants had to make a good case to overturn adverse actions.

      Well, the patent bar got pissed and started to get more aggressive about challenging examiners; after all, there was abuse of the system, and it is not much better to reject somtthing over clearly irrelevant prior art then to pass out a patent over a clearly anticipating reference. Also, applicants were concerned that applications were taking several years to get issued, making the whole process too expensive and time consuming.

      As a result of these pressures a new bred of management was cultivated to counter this. One of the key provisions of this effort was the creation of the "Compact Prosecution" policy. This said that a typical contested application would receive a first action, then, on response by applicant, a second action, either allowance or a "final" rejection. If finally rejected, the applicant could appeal, but was not entitled to have any pre appeal submissions to be considered except under limited circumstances.

      To "encourage" examiners to to follow compact prosecution the perfomance evaluation system for them was changed to significantly count an examiner's "production" by giving a credit for the first action and for the disposal of the application (generally abandonment or allowance).

      An examiner still has discretion to make actions after the first non-final, but, clearly, the incentives go greatly against this.

      From this beginning, management found an easy metric to rate examiners:very "objective" and requiring little "evaluation" of the quality of the work. Patent examining involved patent application "processing" Real quality only occured by hapenstance such as protest from the outside, but low production was the basis of a ticket out.

      As far as the issue of software and business patents, look to the courts for that one; the Office, in true bureaucratic inertial fashion resisted those applications, but the patent bar won in the old Court of Customs and Patent Appeals and its post 1982 sucessor the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. An express change in the Patent Law will be required to change this (or some kind of radical change in the legal thinking of the judges on the Court).

    4. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by slow_flight · · Score: 1

      The patent system is perverted from being a way of protecting inventors from being ripped off by corporations

      Which makes it just like every other government agency.

      --

      Karma: Professionally Doomed (mostly affected by inability to keep opinions to self)
    5. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by Razzak · · Score: 1

      Or better yet, get this bonus..

      [# of patents processed] x [%overturned](cubed)

    6. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by ChrisCampbell47 · · Score: 1
      Thank you, mavenguy.

      This is what I slog through Slashdot for -- the occasional insightful post among the sheer tonnage of videogame console stories, "funny" comments by 16-year-olds (modded up to 4 by 15-year-olds), and "we should" rhetoric from the butt-flattened masses.

    7. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by 5KVGhost · · Score: 1

      (The following may sound harsh, but I want to make clear up front that this post is _not_ a personal attack of any kind. You sound like a thoughtful and honest individual and I do not intend to imply otherwise.)

      I'm sure the policies you note above are a major part of the problem, but, frankly, I think they're ultimately an excuse used by lazy and/or incompentent patent examiners.

      Misguided incentives offered in return for poor job performance are not a valid excuse. If my boss offered me a bonus to rush through my work and give poor results I would still not do so, because it would be ethically wrong, and, more pragmatically, because the consequences of doing so would ultimately outweigh the benefits.

      Patent examiners are the most important part of a workable and smoothly functioning patent process. Without patent examiners you don't have a patent system. It's time for them to stop whining about how overworked and discouraged they are and start doing a better job, and changing things that prevent them from doing a better job, incentives to the contrary be damned. I know some are trying to do so, but the don't appear to be getting the word out very well.

      Policy and management changes will take care of themselves, or not, but the quality of the patent process must improve with our without the cooperation of the people who created the problems it currently has.

    8. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by dhovis · · Score: 2

      The PTO is rewarded for processing as many patents as possible, the problem is just that it is much faster to approve a patent application than it is to reject it, if only because if they reject it then they have to deal with appeals. If they approve it, then anyone contesting the patent must challenge it in court, not at the PTO.

      --

      --
      The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.

    9. Re:The Problems of Quantity not Quality by J.+Random+Software · · Score: 1
      If my boss offered me a bonus to rush through my work and give poor results I would still not do so

      That particular measure of performance is more than an "incentive to the contrary". High throughput is allegedly how they stay on the job at all. Isn't it more constructive for the few conscientious workers to stick it out and do the best work permitted (under the circumstances) than to give up and leave the PTO with a staff comprised entirely of indifferent clods with rubber stamps?

  11. fighting the RIAA with patents? by autopr0n · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You know, I wonder if this wouldn't be a good way to fight the RIAA. I remember a quote from the guy who leads the patent office saying he thought legal arguments should be patentable. His argument was basically "Why the hell not?" as I recall.

    Now, I don't think that you can patent legal arguments at this point in time, but you can patent business models. I mean, we're all smart people, I say why not just patent everything we can think of that the riaa might need technological to fight fair use, etc. I mean they already have things like digital watermarking, and some business models, but why not try to stay ahead of the curve? I remember thinking about a Digital Rights management system built into an OS a couple of months before Microsoft's patent was announced. If I'd thought of it years ago and patented it I would have stopped MS from ever implementing it in the core of the OS. Hrm... not that I wouldn't have been unbribeable, but, maybe this could be done through some non-profit organization like the EFF or something.

    Hrm, maybe I should patent this idea... method stopping tyranny through abuse of the patent system...

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:fighting the RIAA with patents? by hany · · Score: 1
      Such way of fighting requires:
      1. initial investment in money, boring work and time (to fill the forms, ...)
      2. actively protecting your patent which sometimes can mean very expansive court battles

      In general, it can be done but it looks to me like "playing by theire rules" which gives "them" advantage.

      We should come up with our own rules and force "them" to play by our rules.

      (Btw, we alredy have one rule: we are spending our money. So just do not spend them to someone you do not like: flawed CDs, MS software, ...)

      --
      hany
    2. Re:fighting the RIAA with patents? by whereiswaldo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly. I currently have in my head three companies I refuse to buy from anymore. I've boycotted each one for various reasons, including monopolistic behaviour, deplorable or non-existent customer service, lying, information stealing, etc... It'll take a very long run of goodness from any of these companies before I would even consider buying more of their products. Funny thing is, I _used_ to be a customer of each of these companies.

      They can bully us around all they like - until we all realize how much the situation is in OUR hands. If they don't get more of our money, they'll starve. The only question is time. Simple as that.

      Of course, there are other satisfying things you can do. Deny them mindshare. Disregard anything and everything they say as more lies. If someone you know is considering buying from them, tell the person why you don't buy from X company anymore and let them make up their own mind. Switch to a competitor's product to show your support. I'm sure you can think of your own ways... ;)

      It may seem daunting and you may think "well, one person won't make a difference", but a hundred million one persons sure will... that's how big companies get big... or small. It's up to each of us.

    3. Re:fighting the RIAA with patents? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't you patent that Business Method For Dealing With Lousy Companies?

  12. Google-trained monkey patent search by ukryule · · Score: 2

    Instead of hiring expensive lawyers to do the prior-art search before granting patents, why don't they just employ a bunch of semi-trained monkeys to type the patent title into a decent search engine, and grant the patent based on the results?

    Of course you'd need a Legal gibberish to English translation tool as well.

    The problem with this is that most large companies deliberately give patent applications vague and general titles. This is because the title of the patent becomes public before the body of it - and there's no point telling your competition what you're working on until necessary.

    1. Re:Google-trained monkey patent search by mpe · · Score: 2

      Of course you'd need a Legal gibberish to English translation tool [altavista.com] as well.

      Or maybe simply a rule that applications must be in plain English (with a glossary for any needed technical terms or instructions for using a third party glossary/dictionary.)

    2. Re:Google-trained monkey patent search by RennieScum · · Score: 1
      The problem with this is that most large companies deliberately give patent applications vague and general titles. This is because the title of the patent becomes public before the body of it - and there's no point telling your competition what you're working on until necessary

      Plus, the broader the patent, the more possibilities for it's application.

      Consider the person who discovers boiling water in a pot on a stove. It wouldn't behoove this person to describe the holding device as a "metal pot" when a glass beaker could also be covered. Or on a gas flame when it can also be done on an electric burner.

      --
      ...Time is the best teacher, unfortunately it kills all of its students.
    3. Re:Google-trained monkey patent search by gorilla · · Score: 2

      Or even better, in the language used by the relevent field. If it's a computer patent, then it's ok to talk about NP complete. If it's an engineering patent then it's ok to talk about Tensile Strength.

  13. Soft Grounds by Renraku · · Score: 1

    Patents seem to be soft grounds for filing charges against an entity if the entity is richer/more powerful than you. Thankfully, however, patents that encompass key technologies (imagine someone charging a pixel tax or something) don't usually hold up too well. While it might not be too fair, this helps to prevent people from patenting everything that's interesting.

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  14. Best patent by LadyLucky · · Score: 1, Funny
    Is to patent the patent process. Or patent patenting the patent process.

    :-)

    --
    dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
    1. Re:Best patent by blane.bramble · · Score: 1

      Surely the best way would be to patent the patent application process. Then any patents that are submitted would have to be licensed, which could be refused on any patent you didn't want submitted...

  15. I dunno. by autopr0n · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Personally, I find that to be rather a bad idea. I think up interesting things all the time, and I think I should be able to patent them, even if I haven't got the capital to build a working model or anything like that.

    Maybe the burden of proof could be higher or something for a corporation rather then an individual. But I don't really see a reason for not allowing people to patent something if it wasn't difficult to come up with, I mean sometimes the most useful things are 'obvious' in retrospect and their genesis consisted mostly of a flash of insight and a quick jotting down. I read a report on a guy who made most of his money coming up with new kinds of condiments containers. Those things do make your life better, and might not even ever be developed if the person who thought them up didn't think they could make money off of it.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
    1. Re:I dunno. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Maybe the burden of proof could be higher or something for a corporation rather then an individual.

      Then corporation will just have one employee file their patents "as an individual". It would be the same thing as with campaign contribution: normally corporations can't contribute, but the easy way around is that the CEO does contribute in his own name, as an individual...

    2. Re:I dunno. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't do anything with a patent, then (a) it's officially invalid, and (b) you're depriving society of technology which they would otherwise have had, for no good reason

    3. Re:I dunno. by big_hairy_mama · · Score: 2

      My view is, if you think up the next great design for, say, a car engine that runs on toothpaste, and you aren't willing to build it, then you should not be allowed to stagnate other developers from doing the same thing. I could sit here and think up ideas all day long, patent them, sit on my ass, and then cripple new development of that hardware. What good does it do to patent something and not give it back to the world, other than hoping somebody will give in and buy the rights off of you?

    4. Re:I dunno. by Ender7A · · Score: 0

      I agree. Many companies have patented every crazy idea under the sun with no intention of actually creating the product but waiting until someone makes it later and then they sue them.

      What is needed is some kind of time limit penilty patent that will penalyze(fine and/or void the patent) people who patent an idea but does not create or use the patented idea after a period of time.

    5. Re:I dunno. by ebh · · Score: 1
      Willing, maybe, but how about able?

      A couple weeks ago, I thought up a device that makes it much easier to remove the tiles from a Deluxe Scrabble board (no, not the mesh bag or box top). It may or may not be patentable, but if I so choose, I should be able to apply for a patent on it even though I don't own a plastics fab plant in which to build one.

    6. Re:I dunno. by plumby · · Score: 1

      If you are planning on patenting it so that when you offer it to some company to licence it from you, they don't steal it, then fine.

      But if you are not planning on actually doing anything with it, then what would you want to patent something for? The only two purposes that I can think of are to be able to say "I've got a patent" to all your mates, or to stop anyone making it at all. And I don't think that there should be a mechanism in law that is designed with the purpose of stopping anyone at all making something useful.

    7. Re:I dunno. by Accelerated+Joe · · Score: 1

      I think up interesting things all the time, and I think I should be able to patent them, even if I haven't got the capital to build a working model or anything like that.

      It's good to know that people in this world are still thinking, but I don't believe that an idea you come up with in two minutes deserves the same patent that ten years of research came up with.

      You see, patents are made to ensure that people will put enough money into development of ideas by giving them a monopoly on the result for a certain number of years.

      So, with that in light, I still like the original poster's idea, but maybe his "formal" patent would be good for 10 years, while an off the cuff patent with little documentation would be good for 2-5 years. (No patent deserves a 20 year monopoly, IMHO.) That way, everybody inventive would get credit and a chance, and the patent office could probably even reduce their workload by concentrating more on the longer patents, since the shorter ones expire so quickly.

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
    8. Re:I dunno. by Weezul · · Score: 1

      No, patents do not exist to protect your idea no matter what people tell you. The Law dose not and should not give a shit about your idea. Patents exist solely to protect the capital involved in bringing a product to market, i.e. they should provent a large company from simply copying a small companies product.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    9. Re:I dunno. by mpe · · Score: 2

      It's good to know that people in this world are still thinking, but I don't believe that an idea you come up with in two minutes deserves the same patent that ten years of research came up with.
      You see, patents are made to ensure that people will put enough money into development of ideas by giving them a monopoly on the result for a certain number of years.


      Actually the idea of patents is to encourage innovation. Something which someone came up with in 2 minutes is probably more innovative than something which took 10 years.

    10. Re:I dunno. by mpe · · Score: 2

      Patents exist solely to protect the capital involved in bringing a product to market

      Actually in the case of the USPO patents exist simply to encourage more inventions. If the original patent holder comes up with a marketable product simply isn't an issue...

    11. Re:I dunno. by Accelerated+Joe · · Score: 1

      Actually the idea of patents is to encourage innovation. Something which someone came up with in 2 minutes is probably more innovative than something which took 10 years.

      Patents do not encourage innovation like that, so your post is moot. That kind of brilliant spark will come regardless of whether the patent office exists or not.

      The patent does, however, encourage you to develop your idea into something, knowing that you can have a monopoly on the product, so a competitor can't steal your idea.

      Don't confuse the issue!

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
    12. Re:I dunno. by nahojd · · Score: 1

      Actually, I believe that patents were originaly invented so that you would not have to keep your invention a secret. They are supposed to make new technologies known to a wider audience, and to make it possible for other persons/companies to use these technologies (for a reasonable fee, of course).

      Unfortunately, that's not really how it turned out...

    13. Re:I dunno. by J.+Random+Software · · Score: 1

      ... or to sit on an overbroad patent that everyone infringes so that when someone else with an overbroad patent that everyone infringes comes after you, you can threaten to countersue and eventually agree to swap licenses.

      This works for many big companies (which is part of the problem--innovators can't afford to do it) except against the leeches out there who don't infringe anything because they don't produce anything other than lawsuits.

  16. Everything must be owned by Matthias+Wiesmann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IMHO one of the core issue with those IP problems is the notion that everything must be owned by someone. I suppose it makes kind of sense, if everything is owned, then money will be made out of everything.

    When there will be a patent on the process of "a mother singing to help her children sleep", we will know for sure that we are slaves.

    1. Re:Everything must be owned by Fergus+McTavish · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is something that never seems to get much attention. People think as long as someone makes money from it, it's a good thing as long as they don't make too much money...it almost seems like as long as someone can make money from a thing that thing provides employment...but that's not always the case.

      It's important to distinguish the exchange of labour for money from the rental of a good for money. Rental always ends up being money for nothing at the end of the period. Think of all the means of maintaining a large fortune(and therby a power structure) and they all involve rental in some form. This is why it requires money to make money. The traders who make money out of markets are those who have the fortunes to swing them and the cash reserves to withstand losses. Employment itself is essentially a system where those who aren't rich rent a factory in order to convert their labour into cash.

      If it was impossible/illegal to rent it would be impossible to become or stay rich.

      Ofcourse this is all Red Commie crap :-) But at least I'm not going to claim that somehow we don't need people to provide the resources for everyone else, or that somehow we can have the state nobly and objectively manage them all...

      Marx was always better at critiquing than providing any solution.

    2. Re:Everything must be owned by wildsurf · · Score: 1

      IMHO one of the core issue with those IP problems is the notion that everything must be owned by someone.

      Yes, but only until the patent expires. Then, in theory, the invention belongs to everybody.

      Then again, it's been said... "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not." How big are the loopholes surrounding this aspect of the patent system?

      --
      Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
    3. Re:Everything must be owned by schon · · Score: 1

      It's important to distinguish the exchange of labour for money from the rental of a good for money. Rental always ends up being money for nothing at the end of the period.

      Not quite.

      Suppose I need a cube van, so that I can move..

      I don't have the money to buy one outright, and even if I did, I have no day-to-day use for one.

      Now, I can go down to U-Haul and rent one for the weekend. I have a drivers license, and the $50 for the rental.. The end result is that I can move my apartment for net cost of $50 + my time (which doesn't cost me money, as I don't work weekends.) I would hardly call this "money paid for nothing" - unless you're suggesting that the furniture would have moved itself if I had just waited long enough.

      If I had to hire movers, I'd be looking at several hundred dollars just for labour - why should I have to do that when I'm willing and capable of doing the work myself?

    4. Re:Everything must be owned by Fergus+McTavish · · Score: 1

      Money for nothing from the perspective of the renter. They do no work and get paid, ie. they make money because they are rich enough to already have resources to rent, not because they have contributed to the good of society by any effort of their own.

  17. Part of the Problem: Patent Work Sucks by dragons_flight · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Part of the problem with the patent office is that technically minded people don't want to work there. Sure you get to learn about lots of creative ideas and there is good deal of job security, but who really wants to work for the patent office? As far as I know there has only ever been one really famous patent clerk, and he left shortly after that paper was published.

    People with technical skills and training to solve problems aren't interested in a job that is largely research and paperwork. Who can blame them? At the University of Maryland (just outside DC), some people from the patent office came to give a well publicized lecture about their trade and next to no one showed up to hear it. The most knowledgable people will go off and invent or even just teach and then people who can't find positions elsewhere end up working for the USPTO. [I'm sure there are some bright patent examiners, but they sure aren't likely to attract many.]

    One might try using pay and perks to make the job more attractive, but that's only likely to go so far. It occurs to me that we might do much better if there was a system resembling that of peer review for scientific research. A lot of problems might be solved if patent applications were reviewed by a pool of people that had recieved patents in related fields. Just add a priviso that people that recieve a patent are obligated to review 3-5 patent applications per year for the length of the patent. Remove all the identifying details and send each application out to several people to referee.

    Of course there are lots of details to work out, but IMHO such a system could go a long way towards improving the current state of affairs with the granting of patents.

  18. surely.... by duplo · · Score: 0

    Michael Jackson's "Methods and Means for Creating Anti Gravity Illusion" should be on there

    1. Re:surely.... by a+random+streaker · · Score: 1

      No, he created a light-gravity illusion.

      David Blaine created the Anti-Gravity Illusion (about halfway down.)

      --
      "All representatives are busy. The estimated hold time is one..hundred..sixty..four..minutes." Detroit Edison, 02/01/02
  19. Bustpatents... by metlin · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Bustpatents site is worth spending some eye-rubbing time on.

    Whew! For a second I thought that was Bust patents. Almost had me... :-)

    1. Re:Bustpatents... by edo-01 · · Score: 1
      Whew! For a second I thought that was Bust patents. Almost had me

      I read it as "Busted Pants"... I really need to up the font size in my browser or at least not lean so far back in my chair...

  20. Public Comments by ryanisflyboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think the USPTO should allow a time for public comments to be issued on pending patents before the research process begins. Perhaps via some easy to use Internet/Web interface. This would certainly reduce the work load of these guys, and pre-sort the bad/invalid patents out. Perhaps the ones with lots of comments would receive more attention by the USPTO as opposed to pending patents that recieve little or no comment. By essentially envolving industry in the process it is actually made more efficent. I suppose a possible draw back would be someone trying to slow down the approval of a good patent by making false claims, but a method could be devized to reduce or eliminate such behavior. Maybe the USPTO should install Slashcode and allow pending patents to be modded up or down depending on their worthiness. Regardless of how it is carried out, something needs to be done to change how the system works because it clearly doesn't work now. One idea I had would be to follow up on companies to see if they actually build/sell the patented product within a given time frame. If they don't then the patent would be lifted allowing anyone to use the information. Wouldn't that help a lot more mousetraps hit the street rather than being tied up forever in some government stack of paper work?

  21. I can't help but wonder... by Iamthefallen · · Score: 1

    How would a "Circular locomotion device intended to aid transport or travel" do?

    --
    Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
  22. I was looking for the XOR cursor patent by steveha · · Score: 2

    In my humble opinion, the XOR cursor patent is worse than any of his top four. That patent totally flunks the "obviousness" test: any first-year computer science student, taking a graphics class, could write code that infringes on that patent.

    "Write code to move a cursor around." Hmm, what are the operations I can use to set and clear pixels? AND, OR, and XOR. Hey, wait a minute...

    At least they didn't grant a patent on "A Technique Whereby Raster Graphic Image Fragments Are Made to Appear in a Blank Frame Buffer by the Use of the OR Operator". Hmmm, wait, maybe I should file that one before someone beats me to it.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:I was looking for the XOR cursor patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to remember that this was filed in 1976. What we take for granted today is yesterday's front line research.

      If you are into computer graphics I can recommend Seminal Graphics (ISBN1-58113-052-X) from ACM. It collects important papers on computer graphics from the last 25 years. It's an eye-opener to read the original scientific papers on such (today) basic techniques as line drawing, Z-buffering, texture mapping, Gouraud shading, ray tracing, and many more. All of them front line research at their time of publication.

    2. Re:I was looking for the XOR cursor patent by ProfBooty · · Score: 1

      check the filling date, its back in the 70's.

      what might be ovbious 22+ years later may not have been, its what is ovbious to one skilled in the art at the time of INVENTION not time of examination.

      --
      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
    3. Re:I was looking for the XOR cursor patent by schon · · Score: 1

      what might be ovbious 22+ years later may not have been, its what is ovbious to one skilled in the art at the time of INVENTION not time of examination.

      But some things ARE obvious..

      In 1982, I was programming my Vic-20 in "Hi-Res" graphic mode (I made a graphics editor - the "cursor" was moved around the screen with the cursor keys) - and this exact thing occurred to me - when I was 11 years old - with NO training at all...

      Ask any beginning programmer to solve the problem, and I'll bet that most will come up with the same way - because it's OBVIOUS.

      I realize that general knowledge "to those skilled in the art" changes over time, but that doesn't mean that's always an excuse for a bad patent.

  23. start with two sticks by ubugly2 · · Score: 1

    i would like to patent a rapid oxidation process that can be induced by friction.is there any prior art i'm not aware of?

    1. Re:start with two sticks by comic-not · · Score: 1

      Made me wonder, has anyone yet patented slood? (for those who don't recognize a Discworld reference, Terry Pratchett described slood to be much easier to discover than fire, and only slightly harder to discover than water, and the earthlings were probably the only beings in the multiverse stupid enough to discover fire but not slood).

      Comic-not

      --
      Existence usually comes as a surprise (Idem)
  24. is it really the patent office's problem? by Marcus+Brody · · Score: 2

    Although IANAL, I am pretty sure that the burden of finding out if prior art exists rest with the person applying for a patent. This is part of the reason why, if you apply for a patent, you are advised to spend lots of money on patent lawyers and speacilists. The patent office only do quick searches to make sure you havent missed something obvious. If they were to do a full search, the costs would be ridiculous.

    Nonetheless, a little common sense wouldnt go amiss.

    1. Re:is it really the patent office's problem? by vrt3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One can never expect the applicant to do adequate research on prior art: it's in his best interested that there is no prior art found.

      --
      This sig under construction. Please check back later.
    2. Re:is it really the patent office's problem? by ukryule · · Score: 2

      Certainly in the US there is a "Candor and Good Faith" obligation. This means that anyone applying for a patent must inform the USPO about all information (including prior-art) which is relevant to the invention. This obligation even applies after filing (i.e. if you find out after you file that it's been done, then you should inform the USPO).

      I don't think the UK/Europe has a similar obligation though. Also, I'd be surprised if anyone has been sued/fined for not doing this ...

  25. You thought those were bad. by Marcus+Brody · · Score: 5, Informative

    Check these patents:

    Silly patents

    Really silly patents

    Really Very silly patent

    Plain absurd patent

    Even law firms admit many patents are silly

    Are you getting bored of all this silliness yet?

    I can go on

    And on

    And on. Even in Spanish

    Incidentlly, I have just made my own patent application:
    Method of recieving Karma Points from www.slashdot.org utilising process of relying entirely on external sources and/or hyperlinks - "Karma Whoring".

  26. Somebody beat you to it by BenjyD · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sorry, somebody already patented that one in Australia last year: here. Is crazy, no?

    1. Re:Somebody beat you to it by Iamthefallen · · Score: 1

      Oh, but my invention is nothing like the wheel. Granted they are similar in appearance and function, but my whe...ehr, Circular locomotion device holds unique qualities that'll bring a revolution to the way we travel and transport goods, in fact, whole cities will be built around it!

      Now, I'll just lean back and wait for the investors to call...

      Oh, and should it fail, I'll go for my other patent, a "Method of constructing a symmetrical geometric shape and deriving its exact measurments and proportions due to the relationship between the circumference of said geometrical shape and the constant Pi." Let's see them make their so called wheel after that!

      --
      Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
    2. Re:Somebody beat you to it by gaudior · · Score: 1
      ...that'll bring a revolution to the way we travel and transport goods, in fact, whole cities will be built around it...

      Are you Dean Kamen?

  27. Patent violation? by RennieScum · · Score: 1
    I see that the article uses a 3-D pie chart. Was this pie chart made with software developed by the patent holder or it's licensees?

    poink!

    --
    ...Time is the best teacher, unfortunately it kills all of its students.
  28. Re:Part of the Problem: Patent Work Sucks by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

    Hey - I lost my job last week - and I'm technically minded - tell me where I can apply :).

  29. Re:Part of the Problem: Patent Work Sucks by dragons_flight · · Score: 2

    Well you asked...

    Employment Announcements at USPTO

    Also the main USPTO site is here.

  30. A mother singing to help her children sleep by Aceticon · · Score: 4, Funny

    A method to induce sleep in young humans through the use of pressure waves generated by the female progenitor's vocal chords.

    1. Re:A mother singing to help her children sleep by Pembers · · Score: 1

      A good try, but I think you would need to obfuscate it a bit more before it would be patentable. As it stands, it has too many words ("sleep", "young", "humans" and "use") that risk being understood by somebody who might otherwise unknowingly infringe on it.

    2. Re:A mother singing to help her children sleep by Howie · · Score: 3, Funny

      A method to induce sleep in young humans through the use of pressure waves generated by the female progenitor's vocal chords


      "A method to induce somnolent behaviour in scions through the use of maternal cantillations."?

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    3. Re:A mother singing to help her children sleep by a+random+streaker · · Score: 1

      A method to induce narcosis in recalcitrant neonates via the application of manual pressure spikes to the posterior glutei maximi.

      --
      "All representatives are busy. The estimated hold time is one..hundred..sixty..four..minutes." Detroit Edison, 02/01/02
    4. Re:A mother singing to help her children sleep by radja · · Score: 2

      A method to induce somnolent behaviour in mammalian progeny through the use of maternally produced vibrations in a surrounding gaseous medium..

      It's broader, it's vaguer, it's all new Marketeer!!

      //rdj...

      --

      No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
      --Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
  31. What not go European ? by MosesJones · · Score: 3, Informative


    These patents that only get granted in the US don't happen in Europe. Certainly in the UK this is because other people can challenge the acceptance of a patent, and the people investigating it put it out to experts in that field.

    Sounds all to simple, but why not just switch to a system that has worked elsewhere.

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
    1. Re:What not go European ? by MartinB · · Score: 1

      ...and this is why the US-corporation-dominated WTO is enforcing a global patent regime. And buying legislators in Europe to do it.

      Not that I blame the corporations - that's their job. But remind me of the purpose of public bodies..?

      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

    2. Re:What not go European ? by tjb · · Score: 1

      You do realize that British Telecom patented hyperlinks?

      And now is the time on Sprockets when we dance!

    3. Re:What not go European ? by Shade,+The · · Score: 1

      Although the patent is only valid now in the US :)

    4. Re:What not go European ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Sounds all to simple, but why not just switch to a system that has worked elsewhere(?)


      Because there Americans.
  32. Again, thank heavens... by Dog+and+Pony · · Score: 1

    ... I live in a country with some common sense, (although not enough). Around here, you are allowed to patent only innovations, and if they have substance at all.

    What's next over there? Patenting "communication by varying the air pressure" or something? ;) (One of the adaptions are called speech, another music...)

    1. Re:Again, thank heavens... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's next over there? Patenting "communication by varying the air pressure" or something? ;) (One of the adaptions are called speech, another music...)

      I'd love to see a case enforcing this patent go to trial. Noone in the courtroom would be allowed to speak lest they violate the patent. Hell, the judge couldn't even bang the gavel!

  33. Exactly, and that is true in other areas too. by Dog+and+Pony · · Score: 1

    Agreed. That is the exact same thing that makes it virtually impossible to give, or for that matter find, reasonable technical support.

    In all cases I can think of right now, dealing with for instance my cable company and such, the user (you, me, anyone with a computer and some basic knowledge) is the one that has to explain to the support guy or girl what is happening. They have a little binder with questions 1-20 that they ask and then follow some kind of chart depending on what the answer is. If you skip 1-18 by telling them "Hi, I have no connection. I have rebooted computer and modem, one at the time and simultaneously. I have refreshed DHCP manually. The lights on the modem blinks OK, so there is a connection to your server." - well go figure. They panic, because they have no idea what you are talking about, or what that means in terms of their questions.

    Now, if it was a fun (and challenging job working at the patent office, or with telephone support, there would be competent people manning those jobs, and maybe things would work once in a while.

    Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, I was trying to make a point by analogy.

  34. beware, Slashdot posters! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just patented the phrase "can't imagine a Beowulf cluster of these things".

  35. Obviousness by Stephen · · Score: 3, Insightful
    All of those examples are cases where prior are should have invalidated the patent.

    In the software/internet field, I think that the main problem is not that prior art is not found -- in a new field it may not exist -- but that the obviousness criterion is not tested.

    IANAL, but AIUI, in order to be patentable, an invention must be both novel and non-obvious. But read this interview in which the Director of the US Patent Office demonstrated quite clearly that he did not understand the difference between these two concepts.

    It appears that the US Patent Office believes that obviousness can be ascertained by determining whether there is any prior art. Of course obviousness is much harder to prove conclusively. But until they understand that an invention has to satisfy both of these criteria separately, we will continue to get more ridiculous software and e-businness patents.

    --
    11.00100100001111110110101010001000100001011010001 1000010001101001100010011
  36. amazon 1-click by isli · · Score: 2

    He left out the amazon 1-click patent. That certainly ranks up there.
    Maybe it's time to patent the 0-click mouse-over patent. "...the fool held the mouse over the image, he must have wanted to buy it..."

    1. Re:amazon 1-click by dbitter1 · · Score: 1
      Then I could patent the turn-off-javascript-to-defeat-the-0-click-mouse-ov er-patent....

      Then again, if the RIAA started using it, it would be a circumvention method prohibited by the DCMA...

      --
      For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
  37. And the real reason is... by thogard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The US patent office can only search things in the library of congress or their library (i.e. stuff that is patent pending or has been patented (they discard the stuff they reject)). They can't do a google search for prior art since that would leak info to google.

    Because most of the inventors of the cool computer stuff didn't think their work was patentable, they didn't submit it and now if you can find something that hasn't been sbumitted, you too can get a patent on something you didn't invent.

    The same is true for business practices which can now be patented. With no "prior art", anything can get a patent.

    One easy fix to this would be to do something as patent a method to something uesless (but patentable) and submit all of google's database. the problem with this approach is that it requires the entire database.

  38. Reasons for bad patents / trademarks by SomethingOrOther · · Score: 2

    First off, we all know *yawn* how easy it is for a big company to patent a blindingly obvious idea. The little guys then have to go thought a painful and long process to get the patent overturned. The patent process is abused and big buiness wins.

    Also remember that any company can claim patent pending to sound good.
    e.g. Say I run a company making bog-standard parts for a Ford Escort. I then get a patent out for putting a roof on a toaster to stop the toast being poped up too high(!). I can now legitamately claim patent-pending !

    Trade marks are similar. In the UK at least, putting TM after your trade mark is regarded as 'totaly meeningless', as it carries no legal weight at all. However, it is easy to bully smaller companies into submission by claiming you have many 'registerd' trade marks.

    --
    Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
    Don't believe what you read is the truth.
    1. Re:Reasons for bad patents / trademarks by oojah · · Score: 1

      Trade marks are similar. In the UK at least, putting TM after your trade mark is regarded as 'totaly meeningless', as it carries no legal weight at all.

      I believe that in the UK, putting "TM" means that you consider the logo/phrase to be a trade mark. Putting an (R) (ie. R in a circle) after the logo means that it is registered.

      I may be wrong, but I suspect that you can apply TM after phrases, but to get an (R) you have to have a logo - ie. the phrase must be in a particular typeset, colour etc.

      This means that to bully somebody for using your registered trademark wouldn't be unreasonable. Where you would stand for bullying someone using the phrase which you had "TM'd" I do not know.

      Also, as far as "patent pending" sounding good - I wouldn't be at all impressed by a company who boasted that they did have a patent pending without knowing what it was for. You can hardly put "Patent Pending" on the bottom of your business card after all. It is usually displayed upon the device which has the patent pending.

      Cheers,

      Roger

      --
      Do you have any better hostages?
  39. These Discredit Good Patents by 101010 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Trouble with the PTO not paying attention to their applications is that every bad patent makes them less credible, eventually to the point that every patent issued becomes suspicious. Or course the reason for these 4 was the hope of settling some lawsuits out of court and retiring. I know in this forum patents are evil by default, but that's a bit extreme. There are small companies that need that sort of protection to get their business off the ground. Every obvious, ridiculous patent issued reduces this level of protection. The solution? First let's eliminate lawyers everywhere, second, well that's been mentioned enough already.

  40. We only do it . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    . . . to piss you off.

  41. Medical Information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In case you didn't know: the Alzheimer disease was named after the first person describing it, the neurologist Alois Alzheimer (in 1906).
    So don't find coincidences funny if you don't know where they come from...

  42. A patent is useless without marketing by aarondyck · · Score: 1

    Regardless of the product or its originality, a patent is of no use unless the patent holder knows how to successfully market it. My uncle holds the patent for the Wax Whiz, an automatic floor waxing device and a few variants. This machine waxes floors a lot faster than competing devices, but sine he's an inventor and not a marketer, he hasn't been able to capitalize on the patent. It's in the best interests of patent-owners to sell their patents to marketers, rather than keep them for themselves. Based on this, why would anyone want to apply for a useless patent? What good is owning the right to a 3d pie chart if you can't sell it to the general public? I mean, stupidity aside, if your product is the best on the market you still won't be able to sell it if the only people that know about it are related to you. This may be a specific case, but I would think that all patents are the same. Most of the useless patents are held by companies and individuals that we've never heard of. If these uselss patents were marketed correctly, boom! Instant millionaires! Isn't that the way it's really supposed to work?!?

  43. Can we (the public) give PTO "obvious" examples? by Stipe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is there any mechanism by which members of the public can make available to the PTO examples of commonly used, prior-art software, prior-art biotech, prior-art whatever takes your fancy? If not, I think that is something that is necessary - we can moan all day about the PTO granting patents on "obvious" stuff, but perhaps we need to give the PTO a list, to help make their job easier. As another poster pointed out, a PTO clark can't do a Google search for the details of a new patent application, as that leaks information to Google.

    What I'm thinking of is a place where I could describe, say, shopping on a website (to pick an example from bustpatents), and describe in very general terms how shopping on a website works (e.g. "You fill out forms in a web browser, and submit what you want to buy along with your credit card number preferrably over some form of cryptographically secured link such as HTTPS"). It needn't be an especially good example, and (I would say) the more general the better.

    The PTO may well require the information to be public, which makes sense (no-one would post anything of value on it). And perhaps the PTO could somehow penalise applicants who apply for something already described on this list (or on a "small" number of other lists)

    I can see that it would need a form of moderation system in order to avoid abuse, as I'm sure the PTO probably don't want a few thousand "common examples" of spam. But unless we the software community describe (preferrably in a concise manner, and definitely in one place that the PTO can grab a complete copy for its own searching) what stuff is obvious, the patent office doesn't stand a chance.

    PS: I live in the UK, where software patents are not legal. However, you'd be amazed at the number of "mechanisms" that most people would describe as "software"

  44. Odd how many of the patents . . . by werdna · · Score: 2

    supposedly identified as busted or bustable by Mr. Aharonian have survived scrutiny over the years.

    Greg has a tendency, as do many patent critics, to casually review patents without applying the appropriate rules of law, presume their scope are much broader than they actually are, and then conclude that they read upon prior art. This would be unrelated to the law.

    In practice, the rules of patent construction and patentability are far more complicated than he appears to suppose. At least, he no longer presumes --as he did at one time-- that patents are defined by their abstracts.

  45. Wrong by ProfBooty · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am a patent examiner. Youcan use nearly ANYTHING for prior art. I've used google to find webpages that discuss a video game's features which was similar to something I was examining.

    You generally start off with searching what is allready in a numberof patent databases, if youdon't find it there thenyou look elsewhere within the limited time alloted.

    --
    Bring back the old version of slashdot.
    1. Re:Wrong by f00zbll · · Score: 1
      If you're really a patent examiner, I have a few questions reguarding the process as related to me by two separate lawyers. I just to see if what they told me is close to how it really happens. As the lawyers told me the process for filing a patent is the following:

      1. inventer and lawyer meet to discuss the merits of the invention.
      2. lawyer performs patent search or inventor does, depending on how much money and time the inventor has.
      3. inventor write the details of the patent and goes through several revisions with the lawyer
      4. lawyer files the patent submission. A related note, the lawyers generally said the time it takes from filing to getting the patent at minimum takes 1.5-2 years
      5. patent is turned down for being either not novel, too broad or unclear
      6. inventor and lawyer revise the filing and resubmit. this process can occur numerous times. how many times is the actual limit?
      7. patent is granted
      8. inventor(s) sign the form and are granted the patent.

      The advice I was given by the lawyers was "make it as general as possible." Their thinking was, "make it more general so it is more valuable to the company. If it isn't turned down atleast once, it means it wasn't general enough. The lawyer also had the perspective that patent examiners get paid by the number of claims processed, so most patents are turned down by patent examiners for that purpose. I can see reasons for automatically turning down the first filing. What is the average number of times a patent is denied before it is granted?

  46. Cat patent 5,443,036... by FirstNoel · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    I found this off another Patent article...

    Method for exercising a cat...

    Patent 5,443,036 granted 8-22-95

    This is a real patent.

    Basically it states about using a flashlight to move a dot of light around and having the cat chase it.

    As far as prior art, Hell, I've been terrorizing cats since I was little.

    This is a very bizarre patent.

    Sean D.

    --
    "Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
    1. Re:Cat patent 5,443,036... by markhb · · Score: 1

      The details on the patent are available at Delphion, although they no longer allow you to see all the claims for free. IIRC, though, the key to the patent was that it used a laser pointer , not just any old flashlight! You're missing the true innovation!!

      --
      Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
  47. Re:Part of the Problem: Patent Work Sucks by mavenguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I posted above on some of the internal reasons how productions incentives has degraded the ethic to do quality work in the PTO. The problem is one of a managment philosophy over the last 30+ years to worship the god of production over the virtue of quality. Even the most diligent examiner is faced with the problem of being diligent with the reality of not getting fired for low production, not turning around amended cases quickly enough, etc.

    There really are lots of bright people in the PTO (as well as the ususal portion of duds) but they get eroded down to either always being on the edge of being fired (because their production is low) or they have to compromise their own standards to avoid this fate. Either way, they are miserable, and, if they have waited too long, they are trapped in an occupation that has limited applicability elsewhere (Patent Attorney/Agent/Searcher).

    The result: lots of turnover from people who make the correct decision quickly (leave fast, stay long enough to get law degree then go on the outside, etc.) leaving the inept and otherwise unemployable, the competant but ground down by the institutional crappy environment, and the few who ae luck to be competant and in an art that enables them to do good work and satisfy the bean counters.

    And the management wonders why turnover is so high.

  48. You think the US is bad ? by TheFalken · · Score: 1

    http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/patents/ application number is GB0015821.2, it's for finding virii in e-mails, and was placed on 28/6/2000 - *how* much prior art !?!

  49. Follow the money by eyeball · · Score: 2

    I have a question. From what I've read patent laws were recently loosened to allow for software and business-plan patenting. Does anyone know who created and passed these laws? Are there any records as to who lobbied for such changes?

    It would be interesting to see who initiated this and how their profiting. I love capitalism as a system only until people start abusing government power.

    --

    _______
    2B1ASK1
    1. Re:Follow the money by ProfBooty · · Score: 1

      can do business methods, no software

      allthough you will fill a patent by squaresoft for the method of running away in a videogame.

      --
      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
  50. Forces driving bad patents by TekkonKinkreet · · Score: 1

    1) Patent swapping.

    "Our pile of patent trading cards is bigger than your pile of patent trading cards, (plus this one is, like, a Wizard, and really powerful!). Therefore this technology partnership goes *our* way, not yours..."

    2) Company valuation.

    This kind of thing still actually impresses investors: "Stupidco. is a recognized leader in stupidity, and holds key patents in the field."

    3) Patent lawyers.

    "You want to patent the moon? No, no, I don't think that's a bad idea at all! You did bring your check book, right? We may need to patent full, crescent and new moon separately..."

    4) If we don't do it...

    "You really want to take the risk that Idiots.com will patent idiocy before we can patent stupidity? Sure it's a dumb patent, but that doesn't mean they won't get it!"

    5) Difficulty of challenging a patent in court.

    Witness: "...important innovation relating to the doping of spherical semiconductors during non-contact processing in the liquid state..."

    Jurors: "?"

  51. What are patents for? by qweqwe · · Score: 2

    Can someone remind me what patents are for? A common argument is that they are supposed to increase innovation, but how I don't see how. When was the last time you went looking through the patent database for ideas? How many of us can even understand the hyperinflated language in patent filings?

    1. Re:What are patents for? by zeugma-amp · · Score: 1

      Well, it depends upon where you are. In the united states, it is to "promote the progress of science and useful arts". If you can find a copy of the u.s. Constitution, you'll find it listed in Article 1, Section 8 under the powers delegated to congress.



      The full quote is:

      To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;



      zeug

      --
      This is an ex-parrot!
    2. Re:What are patents for? by J.+Random+Software · · Score: 1

      It's incentive to publish. Clearly society comes out ahead by granting a twenty-year monopoly over a publically described invention that otherwise would have gone undiscovered for twenty years or more, because we have the description and might even have some limited access to use the invention in the meantime.

      Where the gray areas start:

      • descriptions that aren't useful to people of ordinary skill in the art (the few patents I've tried to read are gibberish next to the worst RFCs)
      • inventions that would have been invented in the next twenty years without the patent
      • overbroad inventions that leave peers unable to compete at all, harming the free market

      And of course denying the profession access to a technique anyone competent could have come up with in ten minutes is shockingly counterproductive.

  52. Forget gene profiling... we have patents for genes by MartinB · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Several US companies own patents for individual human and animal genes. No, not modified genes. Naturally occuring ones, like the one which causes Cystic Fibrosis.

    If you're developing a CF test which looks for this gene (even from scratch), you will be paying patent royalties.

    It's logically consistent with this that you could be paying royalties if you (or your child) has CF...

    --

    The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  53. The real problem is the 'justice system' by sjames · · Score: 2

    The USPTO frequently issues patents thinking any ambiguities can be worked out in court, but ignores the fact that the court process is prohibitivly expensive.

    Were justice to become affordable to all, the federal government would be forced to correct the problem before the volume of suits effectivly shut down the 'justice system'.

    It is quite possable that the flaws in the system were always there, but due to issues of scalability and the vast difference in the connectedness of society in the past compared to now have brought the problem to light.

    For example, in the mid 19th century, a most people probably interacted (however slightly) with less people in a lifetime than we do in a week. Each interaction carries potential for a lawsuit. They also were never bombarded with advertisments and even 'entertainment' advising them to take others to court for every offense however slight.

    Thus, today you are far more likely to be involentarily dragged into a dysfunctional system than at any other time in history.

  54. Better than Sid's method by gila_monster · · Score: 1

    My friend Sid preferred to exercise cats using a rather graphic method involving a Q-tip and turpentine....

    Yes, he hated cats.

    --
    Ad luna, Alicia! Ad luna!
  55. Perhaps personal presentations would be in order by InterruptDescriptorT · · Score: 2

    It seems to me, just given the broad and obvious nature of the granted patents, that maybe the USPTO ought to go with a personal presentation/interview format (almost like they do with permanent residency and naturalization applicants) as well as the traditional paper filing for a formal patent application. It would work a bit like this: Each person wishing to file a patent would do so in the normal way, and then a few weeks later would be sent a presentation time and date. He or she would have to justify and present the patent to the examiners, who would then have the opportunity to review and ask any questions of the petitioners.

    Obviously, the big downside is the major hiring the USPTO would have to do to have enough presentation/interview slots available. I can't see how the pie-chart patent would have ever been granted with this process--I mean, how do you present such an obvious concept like that to a group of people and keep a straight face or not get booted from the room within 5 minutes?

    --
    Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
  56. This is good because by gila_monster · · Score: 1

    I happen to own the patent on stupid patents. Every time some moron does this, ka-CHING! I'm 84 cents closer to retirement and I get a warm fuzzy for having made money off a lawyer.

    --
    Ad luna, Alicia! Ad luna!
  57. US Patent 6025810: hyper light speed antenna by coding_ape · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They missed my personal favorite.

    US Patent 6025810:

    A method to transmit and receive electromagnetic waves which comprises generating opposing magnetic fields having a plane of maximum force running perpendicular to a longitudinal axis of the magnetic field; generating a heat source along an axis parallel to the longitudinal axis of the magnetic field; generating an accelerator parallel to and in close proximity to the heat source, thereby creating an input and output port; and generating a communications signal into the input and output port, thereby sending the signal at a speed faster than light.

    Certainly not going to get shot down by prior art...

  58. This is how it works... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Herb: Hey Norm, you ever heard of training manuals?
    Norm: Nope... what do they do? Herb: I dunno. Let me look it up. Norm: Is it lunch time yet? Herb: Yeah, let me just issue this patent. Norm: Okay.

  59. Maybe they just forgot! by erroneus · · Score: 2

    Did anyone notice who filed the patent?

    Maybe it's just coincidence and maybe I'm just reading too much into all of this, but:

    (U.S.: 5,851,117: "Building Block Training Systems and Training Methods"; Keith A. Alsheimer and others.)

    Altzheimer? Alsheimer? Hrm!!!

  60. I most certainly do not, repeat not think that... by a+random+streaker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You're an ass.

    --
    "All representatives are busy. The estimated hold time is one..hundred..sixty..four..minutes." Detroit Edison, 02/01/02
  61. A reflection from my youth by erroneus · · Score: 2

    I remember as a child around Giftmas time pouring over the Sears catalog circling and initialing items for my mother to find later. I have four brothers and for the youngest of us, this was common practice that somehow just started happening out of the blue...I don't remember how that practice started.

    We used to get into arguments over who "wanted it first."

    "Hey! You can't want that! I wanted it first! It's mine!!"

    "If you wanted it first, you should have circled it first!"

    "You took the book! So how could I?!"

    The underlying notion was claiming ownership of a wish... we were very poor and we rarely, if ever, actually got what we wanted for Giftmas anyway.

    But with all the "IP" issues that come to light these days, I am wistfully reminded of those days. And I ask is it really so different? Perhaps, we were all forward-thinking prodigies preparing ourselves for 21st century "industry" where we get paid for simply claiming to think of something first.

    Last night, during an internet chat, I quoted James Madison. I didn't know James Madison said the same thing I did 200 years ago? I never read the quote, I just happened to have the same idea he had and expressed it in the same way. It's a good thing we don't have too much problem with being able to express ourselves freely... oh wait, nevermind...

    How much of this is "too much" and do we have to come to the point of revolution in order to stop the insanity?

  62. Prehaps someone should patent sex. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then enforce a very stiff royality on the patent office directors only.

    That should change a few things very quickly.

  63. math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i hold a patent on math.

  64. But who's going to bell that cat? by MadAhab · · Score: 2
    The problem with peer review is that the logical place to go is with other scientists. And these days, they and their universities are filing patents. The business world likes to think itself tough and ruthless, but the academic world has no peer when it comes to the capacity for backbiting and subterfuge.

    It would make more sense if applications were supposed to be made public in relevant industry journals - the applicant has to pay for an ad - and the public was given time to provide objections on the basis of prior art or overly broad or vague claims.

    --
    Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
    1. Re:But who's going to bell that cat? by IP,+Daily · · Score: 0

      Applications are made public after pending for 18 months. The PTO publishes them in the PTO Gazette, and they are printed and placed in the searchable stacks at the PTO, as well as on the PTO Web site. Anyone in industry or academia can monitor published applications and submit comment directly to the examiner handling the application.

  65. Claim 1 by hawk · · Score: 2
    >A couple weeks ago, I thought up a device that
    >makes it much easier to remove the
    >tiles from a Deluxe Scrabble board


    The claim would be,
    "Manually or with a gripping device, torque is applied to the planar element, until said element is orthogonal to the planetary or other gravitational field, effecting removal of tiles, pawns, and other instruments."


    The muffin baking industry is a potential licensee.


    hawk

  66. The claim is by hawk · · Score: 1, Redundant
    "Manually or with gripping apparatus, torque is applied to the planar element, causing rotation and positioning orthogonal to the planetary or other gravitational field, effecting removal of tiles,pawns, and other objects."


    The muffin baking industry is a likely licenssee.


    hawk

  67. Pointing out a potential misunderstanding by yerricde · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you don't do anything with a patent, then (a) it's officially invalid

    Technically, that's correct; patents expire after 3 1/2, 7 1/2, and 11 1/2 years after grant unless the holder pays periodic maintenance fees. If you don't do anything, not even pay the maintenance fee, the patent becomes invalid.

    However, most people would take this to mean "an unenforced patent becomes worthless." That's not patents; that's trademarks.

    (b) you're depriving society of technology which they would otherwise have had, for no good reason

    No good reason except your own bottom line. For any for-profit corporation, that's reason enough. (Corporations that claim to have ethics do so in order to build goodwill, that is, the value of their trademarks, and that can be measured in dollars.)

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  68. Of course corporations are doing that by CrazyDwarf · · Score: 1

    Depriving society of technology, that is. Do you really think they can't make cars last longer? I read a report at least 10 years ago about a procedure where they coat all the engine parts with a very small diamond layer. They believed this would make an engine last 500K miles without an oil change. Why would they not do that? Hmm let's see... everyone buys cars that last much longer, people buy cars less often.... they don't make any money!

    --
    It's easy to stand out when the general level of competence is so low.
    1. Re:Of course corporations are doing that by HiThere · · Score: 2

      I don't think that the particular example that you give (diamond coating) would work yet, certainly not 10 years agoe. OTOH, your basic point, corporations are cash maximizing machines with a short horizon, not society maximizing machines with a long horizon, is quite valid. That's what the laws have designed them to be. It isn't what they were originally intended to be, but things changed.

      One of the big problems is: Corporations are not people. Anyone who says they are is a liar. The court decision that declared them to be persons was a horrendous mistake at the time, and it has only gotten worse from year to year. Corporations are not people. Every law that implies that they are, or that they have ANY constitutional rights should be stricken from the books immediately. The constitutional rights of corporations are logical entailments of their being composed of people. Of their decisions being made by people. Of their ownership vesting in people. That's it. They don't have ANY constitutional rights in-and-of themselves. They are fictitious constructs, designed to simplify bookkeeping and to enable large projects to be built.
      .

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:Of course corporations are doing that by Lars+T. · · Score: 2

      Well, 10 years ago you could have coated all parts of an engine with a diamond layer, but that would have required to put them into a vacuum chamber for days, only recently it has become easier.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  69. If you can't beat them, join them? by Pinball+Wizard · · Score: 2
    Has anyone else had this idea. What if Slashdot/EFF/Sourceforge and whoever else was interested set up a fund to patent as many trivial ideas as they could, for the dual purpose of extracting money from large corporations and to point out to the world how idiotic some of the patents that are granted.


    All you would need to do is look for obvious ideas that the big corps will need to use at some time in the near future then hold those ideas hostage until either the big corps pay through the nose or someone with a clue decides to pass legislation that raises the bar for granting patents.

    --

    No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?

    1. Re:If you can't beat them, join them? by hacksoncode · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately, this is already being done. There are significant numbers of "patent predators" out there in the world that do in fact do this.

      It doesn't serve to convince companies that too many stupid patents are being granted. In my personal experience, it only convinces companies that they need to get there first, which only results in more stupid patents.

      Probably, this is because it's much easier to get there first with a stupid patent than to fundamentally change a system with such intrenched interests.

      Whose interest is it in that all these stupid patents are granted?

      The patent office, which is primarily funded from patent fees, and thus wants to grant patents as often as they can.

      Patent examiners being graded on how many patents they examine (think about it... the more they argue and do actual research, the longer each patent takes).

      Big corporate interests trying to keep out the little guys that can't afford legal trouble, and don't have a big patent portfolio of their own to fight back with.

      And last, but most, patent lawyers, who a) write most patents, and b) are the ones who get paid when stupid patents are litigated. Solid legitimate patents are much less likely to get to the litigation stage, because they are more likely to hold up.

      Is anyone really surprised that we're in this situation?

      I've long wanted to quit my job and start up the "Journal of Unpatentable Ideas" as a repository for all these things. It's just that it won't help the situation. All that it will do is make it easier to fight patents in court, not make it less likely that stupid patents will be granted, because of all the above motivations.

  70. 3 Issues not commonly discussed by hacksoncode · · Score: 1
    1) A lot of these so called "obvious" patents are, in my experience, really limited patents when you go and look at them. It's easy to make fun of, for example, the patent on peanut butter sandwiches (US Patent #6,004,596). On the surface, this is a really stupid patent, but if you look at it, it's really just a patent on a particular method of manufacturing a sealed, round, sandwich containing a layer of semi-liquid filling sealed inside 2 layers of another (non-porous) filling and crimped around the edge so that the resulting sandwich doesn't leak or get soggy (actually, in my opinion, a nifty and reletively sanely patentable idea).

    2) Software patents necessary if patents are to be consider a valid concept at all. These days, it's almost inconceivable that there exists any invention at all that couldn't also be accomplished by a device that incorporates software to perform some part of the inventive steps. If we prevent patents on software-containing inventions, it's very hard for me to see how any patent could protect any invention.

    If patent claims were not allowed to incorporate software ideas, someone could just build the same invention as claimed by any patent, incorporate software to perform some of the steps, and then say that this clearly isn't covered by the patent claims for that invention. Patent claims are very picky things.

    Honestly, people, we are not the first industry to feel that innovation is being "stifled" by patents and that patents "shouldn't apply to us". Every nascent industry that exists has gone through this stage at some point. There are industrys that still are in this stage (like the automotive industry... you may not realize this, but practically every part in every car is covered by some kind of patent). Somehow, they still manage to survive and thrive.

    3) The reason the PTO doesn't search anything but the Library of Congress (which includes most significant journals, BTW) and prior patents is because the patent system is primarily about making sure that inventions are preserved for the public trust in the long term. Journals too small to find their way into the Library of Congress, web pages, etc. don't satisfy that primary goal. If you don't limit the search to some reasonably defined permanent storage, people will continue to hide their inventions as trade secrets and try to "protect" them by obscure references in non-commonly searched locations.

    Also, most of these "trivial" examples of "prior art" that people talk about do not disclose how to perform the operation. A closed source program that does X really shouldn't count as prior art for X, because it's just another form of the trade secrets patents were invented to prevent.

    Of course, one could look on this as an advantage of Open Source Development in terms of preventing stupid patents.

    1. Re:3 Issues not commonly discussed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Software patents necessary if patents are to be consider a valid concept at all. These days, it's almost inconceivable that there exists any invention at all that couldn't also be accomplished by a device that incorporates software to perform some part of the inventive steps.

      Oh, give me a break. Example: I have stock in a company that has a new kind of speaker. They use several ceramic disks, vibrating at ultrasonic frequencies, interfering to produce audible sound. The result is a tightly focused sound beam. They have a patent on it.

      The patent isn't for software that splits sound into two ultrasonic components. It's for the physical method of producing sound. They're covered whether the device is controlled by software or analog circuits, and there's no way you can write software that will run on your computer and make beams of sound leap out of your box. Software patents are utterly irrelevant to this claim.

      As a full-time programmer, I "invent" stuff all the time that's no less "innovative" than the average software patent. That's what we do, we sit around and make stuff up, and if we're any good we don't have the patience, time, or money to patent all those ideas. By the standards of the USPTO I could get a patent every week or two.

    2. Re:3 Issues not commonly discussed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3) The reason the PTO doesn't search anything but the Library of Congress (which includes most significant journals, BTW) and prior patents is because the patent system is primarily about making sure that inventions are preserved for the public trust in the long term. Journals too small to find their way into the Library of Congress, web pages, etc. don't satisfy that primary goal. If you don't limit the search to some reasonably defined permanent storage, people will continue to hide their inventions as trade secrets and try to "protect" them by obscure references in non-commonly searched locations.

      Bulls***. The only way to protect a trade secret is to not publish it at all. Once something is made public, no matter how obscurely, protection as a trade secret can no longer be defended.

  71. USPTO RFC on Prior Art searching... by 3seas · · Score: 2

    "The US patent office can only search things in the library of congress or their library (i.e. stuff that is patent pending or has been patented (they discard the stuff they reject)). They can't do a google search for prior art since that would leak info to google."

    The USPTO had an RFC regarding Prior Art searches a few years ago. Check out Written Comment #4 (chose it from the list - it's in a .doc file located on the USPTO site but you can use this comment #4 in html)

  72. politics: competitors would squash good patents by mr_death · · Score: 2
    To take this step further, what about a committee made up from representatives from all different competing businesses to provide some oversight?

    While that sounds good, think of the motivations of the competitors. It would be in their interest to kill a "good" patent (read, real innovation with no prior art) which would be a competitive threat, and let a trivial patent through.

    I'm not sure there is a good solution.

    --
    It's Linux, damnit! Pay no attention to renaming attempts by self-aggrandizing blowhards.
  73. Proposed legal standard for patent language: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I belive it was Einstein who said "you only understand something if you can explain it to a 5 year old".

    I propose that the Patent office adopt the "5 year old test" Each patent should be read to a randomly choosen kindegarden class; if the majority of the students can understand the language, it is clear enough.

    Now, of course, the kindegarden test isn't sufficent in itself; the next step would be the "slaashdot audience test" that would involve the examination of the patent's giggle factor; present would be the examiner, the submitter, several of the more cynical members of the slashdot audience and a large collection of easy to lift cream pies.

  74. Re:Can we (the public) give PTO "obvious" examples by Gambit253 · · Score: 0

    Perhaps we could have a board of programmers/developers to come up with the list of 'obvious' practices. A smallish group of people should be able to decide on, and maintain a list of common practices that cannot be patented.

  75. Microsoft Patents - Slashdork can whine now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    -- Must give Slashdorks something to whine about:

    Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes

    REDMOND, WA--In what CEO Bill Gates called "an unfortunate but necessary step to protect our intellectual property from theft and exploitation by competitors," the Microsoft
    Corporation patented the numbers one and zero Monday.

    With the patent, Microsoft's rivals are prohibited from manufacturing or selling products containing zeroes and ones--the mathematical building blocks of all computer languages and
    programs--unless a royalty fee of 10 cents per digit used is paid to the software giant.

    "Microsoft has been using the binary system of ones and zeroes ever since its inception in 1975," Gates told reporters. "For years, in the interest of the overall health of the
    computer industry, we permitted the free and unfettered use of our proprietary numeric systems. However, changing marketplace conditions and the increasingly predatory practices of certain
    competitors now leave us with no choice but to seek compensation for the use of our numerals."

    A number of major Silicon Valley players, including Apple Computer, Netscape and Sun Microsystems, said they will challenge the Microsoft patent as monopolistic and anti-competitive,
    claiming that the 10-cent-per-digit licensing fee would bankrupt them instantly.

    "While, technically, Java is a complex system of algorithms used to create a platform-independent programming environment, it is, at its core, just a string of trillions of ones and
    zeroes," said Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNealy, whose company created the Java programming environment used in many Internet applications. "The licensing fees we'd have to pay Microsoft
    every day would be approximately 327,000 times the total net worth of this company."

    "If this patent holds up in federal court, Apple will have no choice but to convert to analog," said Apple interim CEO Steve Jobs, "and I have serious doubts whether this company
    would be able to remain competitive selling pedal-operated computers running software off vinyl LPs."

    As a result of the Microsoft patent, many other companies have begun radically revising their product lines: Database manufacturer Oracle has embarked on a crash program to develop
    "an abacus for the next millennium." Novell, whose communications and networking systems are also subject to Microsoft licensing fees, is working with top animal trainers on a
    chimpanzee-based message-transmission system. Hewlett-Packard is developing a revolutionary new steam-powered printer.

    Despite the swarm of protest, Gates is standing his ground, maintaining that ones and zeroes are the undisputed property of Microsoft.

    "We will vigorously enforce our patents of these numbers, as they are legally ours," Gates said. "Among Microsoft's vast historical archives are Sanskrit cuneiform tablets from 1800
    B.C. clearly showing ones and a symbol known as 'sunya,' or nothing. We also own: papyrus scrolls written by Pythagoras himself in which he explains the idea of singular notation, or
    'one'; early tracts by Mohammed ibn Musa al Kwarizimi explaining the concept of al-sifr, or 'the cipher'; original mathematical manuscripts by Heisenberg, Einstein and Planck; and a signed
    first-edition copy of Jean-Paul Sartre's Being And Nothingness. Should the need arise, Microsoft will have no difficulty proving to the Justice Department or anyone else that we own the
    rights to these numbers."

    Added Gates: "My salary also has lots of zeroes. I'm the richest man in the world."

    According to experts, the full ramifications of Microsoft's patenting of one and zero have yet to be realized.

    "Because all integers and natural numbers derive from one and zero, Microsoft may, by extension, lay claim to ownership of all mathematics and logic systems, including Euclidean
    geometry, pulleys and levers, gravity, and the basic Newtonian

    - Penguin Kicka

    - Culled from theOnion.Com

  76. Physical Realities of the USPTO by Aasha · · Score: 0

    I worked for a private IP research firm in the US PTO for about 10 years. Prior to that, I worked a retail position in Crystal City (Arlington) VA - which is the physical location of the US PTO. I heard many stories that circulated about the fun and foibles of patent examiners. My favourite story is of a patent examiner who, in the rush to get things done, began to hide patent application files in his ceiling. One day, the dam burst. Papers and files everywhere. I have no idea if it's true (I doubt it is) but it's a statement of how rushed and stressed the examiners are that many people gave it credence.

    The PTO is essentially a 19th-century operation. Much of the work is still done on paper. Even the physical location of all of the PTO offices hinder efficiency. The Dep't. of Commerce leases space as they need it - the USPTO encompasses offices and search rooms in at least six different buildings, with no rhyme or reason. Most patent information is off-site in one of three or four (or more!) different warehouses. You can wait up to a week for an older bit of information and that's if they can find the file. Just getting information from point A to point B can take a lot of time. The system persists because the most reliable information is still only available on paper. Ask anyone who uses the search rooms.

    If you're a patent examiner (who doesn't hide applications in the ceiling) geologically slow computer systems and inefficient transportation of physical information are a fact of life. With the pressure from Congress and the public to speed up the process and more and more applications coming in, the examiners are in a no win situation. It's no wonder that patents of dubious merit are being awarded.

    --
    Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. - anon.
  77. Re:Part of the Problem: Patent Work Sucks by xmda · · Score: 1
    As far as I know there has only ever been one really famous patent clerk, and he left shortly after that paper was published.

    ...and for all those of you wondering who the hell he is talking about, that patent office worker was no less than Albert Einstein.

  78. My time machine patent was filed... by HiThere · · Score: 2

    That should work for most inventions.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  79. Re:I most certainly do not, repeat not think that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently the moderator completely missed the joke (as I did the first time I read this comment), thus demonstrating the issue raised by the original poster. :-)

    Nobody reads the subjects.

  80. Who needs hyperlinks? by Webmoth · · Score: 2

    Method of referencing disparate or related content through the use of textual redirects whereby such references are accessed by manual entry of said redirect into browser's address or location bar.

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
  81. Petition Against Software Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Found this petition link at the GNU Site Home page

    Look who signer #1551 is. And look at what signer #1552 says.

    If software wasn't patentable, then the patent office couldn't make software patent blunders.

    If you are a US citizen, consider signing the petition.

  82. Education by Swaffs · · Score: 2

    How many people here can say they even got as far as finishing elementary school without having been taught a school subject, such as math or science, with the aid of a text book? I can remember using text books as far back as grade two.

    So what can we conclude? The people working at the patent office have a very limited education, if any at all. Had these people attended any type of schooling they would have frequently used text books and this "Training Manual" patent would be incredibly obvious with many examples of prior art.

    --

    --
    "Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." - Homer Simpson [1F10]

  83. Re:Part of the Problem with Peer Review by IP,+Daily · · Score: 0

    Giving a patent application to people who have received patents in related fields leads to a couple of problems. First, in industry, those reviewers are likely to either be co-workers of the applicant, or competitors of the applicant. In either case, the review is likely to be biased. Second, in the latter case, the PTO would be putting the content of the application - which is confidential until publication - into the hands of the applicant's competition. For those who actually file applications for valid patents, this would be disasterous.

    The PTO actually has a sort of peer review in place, as of November, 2000. After 18 months of pendancy, most applications are published, and public comment is invited. This means that review is not limited to just competitors, but to anyone who has an interest, so the review is actually farther-reaching. The applicants are protected in case of infringement based on publication of the application, by being awarded a reasonable royalty for infringing activity dating back to the time of publication, if the issued patent has claims that are substantially similar to those of the published application.

  84. And let's not forget the telephone patent fiasco! by cliveholloway · · Score: 1
    Antonio Meucci.

    cLive ;-)

    --
    -- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
  85. Re:Forget gene profiling... we have patents for ge by edremy · · Score: 2

    Several US companies own patents for individual human and animal genes. No, not modified genes. Naturally occuring ones, like the one which causes Cystic Fibrosis.



    While I agree this makes me uneasy, what are your alternatives?

    Gene research costs serious cash. Highly trained people (in high demand). Very expensive equipment and lab facilities. Lots of chemicals (and disposal) If private companies can't get some return, they simply won't do the work.

    Who else will do it? Government or universities? Both supported by your taxes- pay up, assuming you can get a tax hike past Duyba. Or you can cut other services (Meet hordes of angry seniors) or add to the deficit if you prefer (Ask the Argentinians how well this works in the long run.)

    I don't like the idea much myself, but privates do useful work that otherwise might not get done. Is it better to have a patented CF gene or not know anything about it at all?

    Eric

    --
    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
  86. That's why by a+random+streaker · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    God gave birth to metamoderation. If anyone happens to stumble across that moderation...

    --
    "All representatives are busy. The estimated hold time is one..hundred..sixty..four..minutes." Detroit Edison, 02/01/02
  87. But... by DrCode · · Score: 2

    ...what if someone patents the legal argument that you can patent legal arguments? It makes my head hurt.

  88. Oh, the irony... by sunhou · · Score: 1

    Slashdot editors posting an article about people who don't do adequate searches for prior things...

    It would have been icing on the cake if this particular story had been submitted before, but this SciAm article is new. (Although the bustpatents web site has been mentioned before, more than a year ago.) Guess I'll have to post this again the next time this article appears on slashdot.

  89. you're kind of defeating the purpose of patents. by The_Rook · · Score: 1

    the whole idea of patents is really to "promote the useful arts". they do this by letting an inventor have exclusive use of his invention for a limited time in exchange for publishing the invention. you could say that the patent system is intended to let people give back to the world while still letting them protect their rights to profit from their inventiveness.

    "good ideas are valuable. i like to be well fed" - hans bethe

    so in your case, it would be great to have invented an engine that runs on toothpaste, but it doesn't do any good if you don't publish. the patent lets you publish your invention for the crest engine and profit from your inventiveness. if you're not interested in developing the invention then you could give people an open license or license the invention for a nominal fee.

    there is nothing really wrong with patents per se. the opportunity to publish and enjoy an officially sanctioned monopoly encourages people to invent things and tell the world about their inventions. without patents, inventors would treat their inventions like trade secrets. other inventors would have to reinvent technology on their own in order to build on it.

    the key is that patents are supposed to be "novel" and "non-obvious". you really shouldn't be able to come up with any old idea and patent it. the patent office needs to be more rigorous in its analysis of patents for these two requirements.

    the problem is that the patent office has been willing to approve any old patent without rigorous analysis. the reasons for this is partly due to poor funding from the federal government and partly due to the patent ofice losing sight of its mission which has changed from "promoting the useful arts" to "helping companies make monopolis". the result is a lot of poor quality patents that end up stifling innovation by giving inventors monopolistic control over inventions that are either not new or are obvious or both.

    --
    when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
  90. Nice one-way traffic that works for Europe by horza · · Score: 2

    It means the in Europe we can register silly patents in the US (eg BT holds the patent on the 'hyperlink') but EU industry remains unhindered by such absurdities. The UK government considered the US system and rejected it, has the US government any published studies that recommend/reject the UK system?

    Phillip.

  91. Re:Forget gene profiling... we have patents for ge by mikera · · Score: 2

    Universities sound like the right choice to me. They have the fortunate by-product of producing more educated people as well as good ideas.

    You can work out the economics. Make the assumption that it costs the same to produce an invention in a company as in a university (probably not true, since the univeristy doesn't have the lawyer/marketing overhead, and the peer review/academic competition in universities is arguably more efficient at spreading knowledge than closed corporate labs).

    If the patent is granted, the average consumer will pay more and get less product (due to monopoly pricing) than they would if they had paid the required additional tax to fund the research in universities. The company makes more profit, but not enough to offset the consumer's loss. So the patent destroys value overall and is also probably regressive since corporate profits will tend to disproportionately benefit the rich.

    With the invention in the public domain, companies can then compete in a free market to produce and market the product as efficiently as possible. This is in stark contrast to a patent-protected monopoly, which has far less incentive to cut costs since it is already sitting on a large margin and doesn't have to fight for customers. I actually think the companies would continue to innovate anyway to keep ahead of the competition even if they could not aquire a patent.

    Basically, patents are bad, and the *real* free market solution is to abolish them.

    Of course, people are dumb and don't like paying extra taxes, regardless of the fact that it might halve the prices of most products they buy. Ah well.....

  92. Re:Forget gene profiling... we have patents for ge by edremy · · Score: 2

    With the invention in the public domain, companies can then compete in a free market to produce and market the product as efficiently as possible.

    So, are you allowed patents on production? Good ChemE's don't come cheap, and if you think the production methods aren't covered in a flurry of patents you'd be wrong.

    Of course, if you make all that free where's the incentive to improve production by inventing new methods? It costs a bloody fortune to develop a new method: why should any company bother when there's a free, inefficient method out there and any other company can take your new method away? There's no free market here- just a government sponsored research monopoly.

    Who pays for clinical trials? The government would have to- no company could shoulder the ~$100M cost per drug under this system.

    How about copyright on the informational/marketing materials that go with each drug? Can I take those free as well? I could save a bundle on technical writers/marketing staff. Perhaps the government should just take over those responsibilites too.

    Patent works in the drug industry- it's probably the best example, since up front costs for drug development are immense but costs to copy are low.

    Are drug companies angels? No, but shutting them down and transferring their entire R&D staffs to academia (where would we put all the chemists?) under government payroll is kind of a drastic solution. (BTW: I seriously doubt your argument that academic research is more cost effective- I've worked in both worlds. The amount of time spent writing grant proposals to get funded is huge. When I needed a new HPLC at Merck, I asked for one. It appeared the next week. In academia it would have taken 6+ months of writing and waiting.)

    Eric

    --
    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
  93. Those are nothing. How about a PB&J patent? by ngoy · · Score: 1

    A husband of one of my coworkers works for a rival of Kraft foods. They designed a and tried to patent the process/machinery of making peanut butter and jelly into slices (just like sandwich cheese). Their patent I can understand (the work involved to get two dissimilar food products to stick together in a peel and open plastic square in a manufacturing environment is not as easy as it sounds). Anyways, they have been rejected by the patent office over 3 times because there is an "inventor" who basically patented wrapping slices of nut butter and jelly. Not the process, but the idea that it is packaged in plastic (err "flexible package covering". The patent will not issue them a patent because their process is based on "prior art", and nevermind the fact that the patent examiner has stock in PJ Squares. See patent RE37275, reissue of 5855939.

    Also see 6,080,436 (patent for err, "refreshing" bread by heating it to 2500-4500 degrees (sounds like making toast) and the almost infamous Smucker patent on a "sealed crustless sandwich" patent number 6,004,596. Patent 6,296,884 (prepackaged s'more kit).

    I think I will patent the "method of excreting organically processed food and other sustanance by way of a pouch shaped contractile organ which then compresses the processed food out through a hole at the end of the organ through repetative application of contractions along the length of the organ."

    I will then own the patent on the process by which you take a crap. I wonder what I will get paid in?

    Shango

    --
    --ngoy
  94. more dubious patents... by greengene · · Score: 1
    1. Re:more dubious patents... by pjbass · · Score: 1

      You *HAVE* to be fscking kidding me. That is just ridiculous. I guess I should dig out "said wallet" and flip his "said ass" off. Although, brilliant in execution.

  95. For the lazy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...a relevant quote in the interview is towards the end: "Obvious functions are not patentable. We don't patent obvious inventions. We just don't. And if you believe that it's obvious, and you've got prior art to show that it is obvious, send it on in, as I've said many times..."

  96. easy work around by autopr0n · · Score: 2

    Right now, corporations do in fact patent things through the employees who think them up. However, if one were to make it illegal to actualy transfer an 'individual' patent indefinetly and make it legal for corporations to co-sign patents, I don't think manny companies would trust their employees with the company 'crown jewls' so to speak.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  97. Yes but by autopr0n · · Score: 2

    you're depriving society of technology if you just forget about it as well.

    Maybe the current patent system should be replaced with a 'compulsory rights' system, where everyone can license your idea for a price you set.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  98. Re:Part of the Problem: Patent Work Sucks by nick_burns · · Score: 1

    I could have swore he was talking about Cowboy Neal.

  99. Odd Einstein quote... by Brendan+Byrd · · Score: 2

    Where's my 5-year-old explaination of the Theory of Relativity? :)

  100. There is a solution... by jackcaj · · Score: 1

    First, if you are interested in learning more about the patent process in the US, I recommend the book "Patent It Yourself" by Patent Attorney David Pressman. This book can be found on the NOLO self help law site: www.nolo.com. A number of other books about patents can also be found under Patent & Trade Secrets/Patents on that site.

    Second - how to fix the problem of patents granted for things that already exist. IANAL or an expert in the field, but it seems to me that the Patent Office will invalidate or revoke a patent when provided with documentation showing the existence of prior art that describes the invention that has a date earlier than the patented inventions date of inception. If the documentation describes the reduction to practice of a patented invention the patent should be invalidated - the invention already exists and is not patentable. Part of the patent application process is to search for and include prior art of similar inventions and to explain how your invention is unique and non-obvious. The responsibility belongs to the inventor and the inventor's Patent Attorney(s) to find and include the prior art.

    So if you have prior art on a patented invention, send it to the Patent Office and see what happens.

    Lastly, I have a question. How is it that if you change one gene in an organism which has million or billions of genes, that you then own the whole organism? That's like changing one register in an existing microprocessor and calling it your design. Or perhaps changing one line of code in Microsoft Office and getting a patent on the resulting code ;-). When Mother Nature decides to kick butt for patent infringement it won't be happening in a court of law.

  101. Re: Einstein by Tibe · · Score: 1

    Hey you screwed up your link to slashdot smart ass ... thanks, Einstein.
    violence, gentlemen -- no violence, I beg of you! Consider the furniture! -- Sherlock Holmes
    click the link before you mod

  102. reject ridiculous patents by maxpublic · · Score: 1

    The idea here, a rather corporate one, is that everything must be owned by someone - even concepts (e.g., Amazon and one-click shopping). While bound to appeal to those motivated by greed, intellectually it's bloody fucking hilarious - primarily because only the incredibly stupid could actually attribute any worth to the notion, or allow some of the patents that have made it through the PTO.

    Add two things that are automatically excluded from patents:

    - concepts. You can't patent a concept. Period. Too bad if you don't like it. Move to some other country, eh?

    - things of natural origin. Can't patent the discovery of natural objects, like genetic code. You didn't make it, all you did was stumble across it.

    - anything funded by public money. All things funded in any way by public money, no matter how small, become public domain.

    Remove these two things and you eliminate 99% of all the bad patents out there. Not only that, you return the patenting system to what it was originally intended to be, i.e., a way to protect an inventor of a technological, material product long enough for him to make a buck off that product before everyone else copied it.

    Anything else is bullshit, from my point of view. Just a way for lawyers and non-creative corporate mouth-breathers to stuff more money into their wallets.

    I can already hear the screams of apologists....

    Max

    --
    My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  103. I disagree by Grax · · Score: 1

    Thinking up all sorts of interesting but trivial things and then patenting them is just a waste of everyone's time. There are companies and individuals out there making their living off of patenting ridiculous ideas and then suing the people that use them.

    I don't think obvious things should be patentable. That just means that every thing I create will be patent encumbered by some other idiot who patented the vertical squeegee or the wireless joystick or the dvd drive that plays disks upside down.

    Too many patents impedes creativity rather than encouraging it. The little guy gets screwed when he sinks his life savings into producing widgets and someone sues him because they patented the technique for using nuts and bolts with 3 washers instead of 2.

  104. Re:Forget gene profiling... we have patents for ge by mikera · · Score: 2

    Guess we just have to agree to differ on this one - you don't think scrapping patents would work, I most certainly do although I'm not convinced it will ever be meaningfully tried.

    To answer a couple of your points (all good):

    I don't think you would transfer that many people to university research - AFAIK a large amount of the manpower in drugs companies is around the production and testing of drugs, all of which would still have to be done by private companies if they wanted to compete. Even if they pick up the basic research for free, they still need to manufacture it efficiently and convince consumers that it is tested and safe if they want to make a good business.

    You could even adopt a funding system where scientists are government funded but work within companies, on the proviso that the research results are available to all. This might be a good model for clinical trials as you mention.

    Or as an even less disruptive alternative, the government could guarantee to write out the check for the development of any successfully researched drugs - essentially "buying" the development into the public domain. They would have to include a risk premium (to cover the risk of failed research), but the total costs would be exactly the same and the incentive to make a successful drug just as great. The only difference being that after the drug is made, you get the free market in production and supply rather than a monopoly once again. This might also work as a "bonus" for clever production techniques dreamed up by the ChemEs you mention.

    Basically, we all know that patents are bad, that they restrict the free market, inflate prices and quite probably stifle future innovation. The only justification for them is to incentivise new discoveries, but I feel that this can be done in far more effective ways.

    I've never worked in a drug company, but I've been in business and technology long enough to know that the ability to copy ideas and strong competition on a level playing field are the biggest drivers that force companies to perform and innovate. Patents prevent this from happening, and this more than anything else has convinced me that they ought to go.

  105. Worst Patent EVER by SAN1701 · · Score: 1
    This comes from the IgNobel Prize Past Winners WebPage:

    TECHNOLOGY
    Awarded jointly to John Keogh of Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia, for patenting the wheel in the year 2001 , and to the Australian Patent Office for granting him Innovation Patent #2001100012.

  106. Method of Exercising a Cat by thebabelfish · · Score: 1

    A patent on a "method of exercising a cat" using a laser pointer. Purely rediculous.

    "A method for inducing cats to exercise consists of directing a beam of invisible light produced by a hand-held laser apparatus onto the floor or wall or other opaque surface in the vicinity of the cat, then moving the laser so as to cause the bright pattern of light to move in an irregular way fascinating to cats, and to any other animal with a chase instinct."

    --
    "I don't trust goats," --To Catch a Spy
  107. From our intranet (i'm very proud - *sniff*) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2001 a
    patently great
    year for IBM

    We Did It Again!

    For the ninth year in a row, IBM leads the patent race, with IBMers being
    awarded more U.S. patents than employees of any other company. We received
    a record 3,411patents in 2001 -- surpassing the combined total awarded to
    12 of the largest companies in the IT industry. This represents nearly a 20
    percent increase over our previous record of 2,886 set in 2000 and makes
    IBM the first company in history to be granted more than 3,000 U.S. patents
    in a single year.

    But this isn't just a numbers game.Rather, it's about IBM demonstrating
    its knack for innovation and asserting its unparalleled technology
    leadership. And that's paying off for IBM and its customers, as we
    outpace a whole host of competitors who pride themselves on being among our
    industry's best and brightest.

    Patent Prowess in 2001: How IBM Stacks Up
    Against 12 of the largest US companies in the IT industry

    "Patents recognize the work of individuals because patent law has long held
    that only human beings can possess the spark of creativity necessary to
    produce original breakthroughs," said Nick Donofrio, senior VP, Corporate
    Technology and Manufacturing. "IBM's patent leadership reflects our
    continued success in attracting and retaining the world's most talented
    researchers, scientists and technicians.Our commitment to industry
    leadership depends on our success in creating a community of original
    thinkers spanning a variety of disciplines."

    Prestige isn't the only benefit of being crowned patent king. Patented
    technology is big business at IBM; in 2000 alone our intellectual property
    portfolio generated $1.7 billion in licensing royalties.It demonstrates
    our industry and product leadership which in turn makes IBM more attractive
    to potential business partners. In addition, patents help extend IBM's
    influence over standards-setting in particular technologies or industry
    segments. And, of course, our products are better as a result.

    More than one third of the technologies IBM patented last year are already
    being applied to IBM product and service offerings. Take US Patent 6280813,
    for example. It covers Magnetic Recording Media with
    Antiferromagnetically Coupled (AFC) Ferromagnetic Films as the Recording
    Layer is a mouthful. That's why we call it "pixie dust." Pixie dust is a
    new type of magnetic coating that will quadruple the data density of hard
    disk drive products.In 2001, IBM shipped more than 5.3 million disk
    drives manufactured with AFC media.

    While not every invention is patented-- some are reserved as "trade
    secrets"-- the number of patent issuances is a meaningful bellwetherof
    the pace of innovation."IBM not only led in total patents issued," said
    Donofrio. "We also led in almost all of the product and technology segments
    in which we compete. That means we're making the right investments in the
    right technologies, and it's paying off with growing marketshare in the
    fastest-growing parts of the industry."

    IBM's research and development priorities continue to position the company
    for leadership in key industry segments, with more than 1,500 patents for
    infrastructure technologies (including software, servers, and storage
    systems) and 1,200 patents for core component technologies
    (microelectronics, storage devices and displays).

    Here is an approximate breakdown of U.S. patents granted to IBM in 2001,
    categorized by business unit along with more in-depth explorations of key
    business unit accomplishments.

    Global Services: 17
    Personal & Printing Systems Group: 189
    Research (all labs, worldwide): 593
    S&D: 57
    Server Group: 533
    Storage Systems Group: 136
    Software Group: 524
    Technology Group: 1,235

    "Innovation is thriving in the research and development labs of corporate
    America and companies around the world, as this year's patent results
    confirm," Donofrio added.

    Among the U.S. Patents issued for IBM inventions in 2001:

    Mirror image improves proves chip performance
    As we all know, transistors are the basic building blocks of semiconductors
    or microchips.Dual or double gate transistors use two gates, rather than
    one, to switch a transistor on and off. They effectively double the
    capacity of the transistor or, alternatively, lower the power required to
    run it.These traits are in high demand in high-performance processors or
    for very low power uses, such as portable devices and blade servers.But
    there was no practical way to build double gate transistors.This patent
    describes a breakthrough method for effectively manufacturing them.
    (Patent US 6207530:Dual gate FET and process)

    Instant recovery:early example of self-healing capabilities
    This patent describes how a computer system can recover more easily from a
    crash due to a corrupted application or operating system.With this
    invention, computer users can revert within minutes to a back-up copy of
    applications and operating system software stored in a separate area of the
    hard drive, without having to download or install a new copy from an
    outside computer. Called "Rapid Restore PC," this technology is available
    now on IBM ThinkPad notebooks and NetVista desktop PCs. (Patent 6195695:
    Data Processing System and Method for Recovering from System Crashes)

    Linking data made easier
    Computers store data in diverse and often incompatible forms:structured,
    unstructured, relational or hierarchical databases, in flat files or as
    multimedia objects.This patent allows users to access all types of data
    using a "single-query" search.This invention makes it possible for
    businesses to integrate the management and retrieval of traditional coded
    information with newer digitized data, and is at the heart of IBM's
    DiscoveryLink software, which is fueling the company's growth in the
    nascent Life Sciences industry.(US 6263342: Federated searching of
    heterogeneous datastores using a federated datastore object)

    New way to analyze fingerprints
    This patent helps accurately identify and analyze fingerprints.
    Fingerprints can be distorted due to skin elasticity and the varying amount
    of pressure an individual applies when providing a fingerprint.In this
    invention, fingerprints are identified by counting the number of ridges
    between features in the print.By using the "ridge count," different
    images of the same fingerprint can be identified as identical.(US
    6266433:System and method for determining ridge counts in fingerprint
    image processing)

    Drivers' friend:artificial passenger
    IBM researchers have developed an invention to keep drivers awake on the
    road.An automatic in-car dialog system carries on a conversation with the
    driver on various topics.The system analyzes the driver's answers
    together with his or her voice patterns to determine if the driver is alert
    while driving.The system warns the driver or changes the topic of
    conversation if the it determines that the driver is about to fall asleep.
    Such a system can also be used for voice-activated operation of audio
    equipment, such as in-car CD/DVD players, radios and telephones.(US
    6236968:Sleep prevention dialog based car system)

  108. Friends of JonKatz by kiwipeso · · Score: 0


    JonKatz is all alone in the world.

    --
    - Kaos games and encryption systems developer
  109. Isn't Singing a violation of the DMCA? by kesuki · · Score: 1

    It isn't a patent but I could have sworn that singing was a violation of the DMCA in some way, especially if it is infringing on a copyrighted lullaby. I mean the sound waves are being freely reproduced so that anyone in the room can share even if they haven't paid the mandatory license fee this week.

    (BTW this is a joke -- It's only applicable under the DMCA if the mother is a songwriter or is using a webcam.)

  110. A real fix isn't easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All patents should Expire and not be renewable after a Reasonable time frame. Even if someone gets a silly pattent it becomes a moot point and in the end only hurts them because they can't try to lay low until the can extort people for money etc.
    Copyrights should have the same rules, about expiring. I even question if an author has the right to own a piece of literature for thier entire life, and most certainly not for '50 years after thier death.'

  111. Re:Can we (the public) give PTO "obvious" examples by SeattleTech · · Score: 1

    This is a great idea. if in the last months of the process, the Patent was published on the web, with a natural language translation, my guess is that the vast majority of software patents would be shot out of the water within a few posts.

  112. Eskimo Pie Anniversary by PhilHibbs · · Score: 2

    Today is the 80th anniversary of the patenting of the Eskimo Pie (Choc Ice in the UK). http://todayinsci.tripod.com/cgi-bin/indexpage.pl? http://todayinsci.tripod.com/1/1_24.htm