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Open Source Developers Mostly Pros, Not Weenies
SpinyNorman writes: "Survey shows open source developers mostly veteran pros, not slashdot weenies. Slashdot weenie Hemos should have submitted this himself already seeing as he was involved in it as LinuxWorld!
Open source a needed outlet for programming pros." Like any survey, it's bound to miss some avenues of exploration, but this is the best look at a large group of open source developers I've seen yet. The survey itself (a joint project of the Boston Consulting Group and Slashdot-parent OSDN) lives at www.osdn.com/bcg, or you can jump straight to it in either PDF or html.
I thought the study was pretty informative and helps dispel some of the preconceived notions of the high school kids in their basements. It's actually 27 year olds in their basements. :-)
This survey could not have been accurate because there wasn't a choice for vote for "Cowboy Neal"!!!!
How does being a software professional preclude one from being a weenie? In high school and college, just about everyone who was a budding computer professional was a weenie.
That's why they call them geeks.
Just my US$2e-02. OK,
- B
http://www.bradheintz.com/
- updated
Is it significant that 34% of SourceForge developers responded but only 2.4% of Linux Kernel list subscribers? Does this survey prove anything more than "SourceForge developers are more likely to be successfully trolled than Linux Kernel list subscribers?"
John
As the PDF link is broken, and the HTML link is annoying, here are some short-cuts: Motivation for programmers, Job functions, Time Spent, Feelings about OS software, Project desires
Kind thoughts do not change the world
most open source zealots are damn good coders, and yes, many of them even have jobs and a house/apartment!
Everything was great until I came across this: Most open source zealots haven't written a line of code in their life. Most open source authors are pragmatic and appreciate the benefits in particular areas, and their approach is anything but zealotry. There is a vast chasm of difference between the attitudes of a Slashdot Warrior advocating the true way of enlightenment, and the people who are behind the usable open source.
A friend of mine who, like me, is a professional software developer once likened programmers to guys who love their cars, they just love to show you what's under the hood.
I mean, really, it doesn't take much poking and prodding around the Internet to find dozens of programmer resource sites, most of which have tons and tons or free code. Programmers, for the most part, feel a sort of comradery (sp?) with each other and as such aren't very hesitant to share their code with other programmers. There have been many occassions where I've gotten a third-party product developer to open up the code base, despite licensing or legal issues, so I could help him/her customize the product to suite my employer's or client's needs.
Also, I believe there comes a time when a professional developer is either experienced or learned enough to understand the "how" of just about any piece of programming, even if they don't have the experise to jump in and do it. For example, I understand how 3d engines work, despite my never having coded one from the ground up (so to speak). I think opening up the code base of your neat-o project is a little easier to take when you realize that other competent developers are going to basically understand how you accomplished what you've done.
As for "weenies" not showing off their code...perhaps they don't have code of their own to show?
My sigs always suck.
put into developing, say the Linux kernel...
:). Viz "Linux....developed by a thousand Microsofts....for free."
and figured out how big a company is needed to reproduce that.
Would make a good "tag-line"
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
That's true actually.. most of the flaming I see tends to be from people who don't contribute. And it's not restricted to Linux either I've seen the same in the FreeBSD camp.
Real programmers shut up and let their work speak for them.
I don't know about anybody else, but I have only ~8 months of programming
experience, and I feel that I'm relatively proficient. (I know there
are always people better than me, and things to learn - this isn't a flame/troll).
But my point is, I learned most of this stuff myself, and I can't help but
wonder if part of the reason I grasped some of these concepts faster is that
I was able to actually examine Open Source code multiple times to learn how
things were done. So in that way, I was learning from professional programmers,
which in turn, could possibly (most likely) generate more professional
programmers, which due to their background of learning from OSS will probably
also contribute to the OSS community, and some other new programmer will start
the same way.
(Self-fulfilling prophecy?)
You have to admit, the current generation of computer users, raised on the Web and AIM, isn't of too much use for a lot of things. Years of passive entertainment has dulled their senses, and they would rather the computers played with them than they play with the computers.
There are so many users who are *lost* when the network is down... it's like they don't know what to do with a computer. The past generation knew how to tinker because it was the entertainment... now the spirit's being lossed. It's a good thing the old-timers are so tenacious.
Wow, I never would have guessed. So Hemos, do you have a vision of where I'll be in a year? I really would love to know.
And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners.
Berke Breathed
http://www.osdn.com/bcg/BCGHACKERSURVEY.pdf
-Jon
this is my sig.
...and statistics coming from a not-even-remotely-detached source.
Don't feel like calling into question the verity of the methodology employed in a survey of open source developers by a open source company; it's obviously as trustworthy as a survey of databases as performed/sponsored by Oracle.
I'm not even sure what a sweeping generalization like this proves other than some of us really like to program.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
I know what a weenie is, (thanks to 7th grade phys-ed), but how are we defining 'Pro'?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Wow, 9/10 Open Source developers are personally convinced that they are 'professionals' who know more than everyone else.
This is news why?
technoshamanic resistance within hyper-transgressive ontology
How many times do you get to work on something really creative at your day job?
Most work is either database, accounting, or doing web apps with some really broken methodology/tool.
The most fun I have had is working on non-work realated things just for the sake of writing some fun code.
and they didnt want to learn it, unless they HAD to. The older guys out there all seem to pretty much love linux, since alot of them have worked with unixes for along time. And is very athome on a linux system, whilest most younger programmers come from a Windows backgroup(most danish schools use windows systems) and maybe they feel abit scared in changing OSes. And more importantly, they dont really know the strenght in *nixes. Since they where never thaught, they only know that MS insist that thier OS does everything a unixbox does, just easier. So, why boughter right?
/dev/).
Heck, it was a older guy who got me interested in linux by showing me what it was about(via. a perlscript that used system() to rip encode mp3s).
I instantly saw the coolness in commandline programs, and then he showed me about how easy it was to dump a midi sysex to a mididevice (aka. the wicked coolness of
So, my point.. i think the reason that more older guys are involved in linux, is many of them are very used/comftible with *nix system.
Most open source developers started in college or before. The maturity level in open source represents the *maturing* of open source. No one has replaced Linus, but there are newcomers like Marcello. Many other projects are still spearheaded by the same people that started them in their basements when they were teenagers. As far as I know, there hasn't been a massive UV radiation die-off, or kidnapping/cyborg replacement program of key developers
Hmm. This wording sounds a bit unusual for the slashdot editors. Did slashdot get hacked again?
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
This study is meaningless.
Hi we sent email to sourceforge members, and linux kernel mailing list members, and got a lots of numbers.
First, the response rate from Sourceforge was 34.2%, which is not representative of most of sourceforge. How many of those contacted were in active development? How many alpha projects are there on sourceforge that have had little development, and will continue with little development?
Second, there was only a 2.4% response by the lkml members. Would this 2.4% be the active members of the list, or mainly the people that don't participate?
Third, this only accounts for people on sourceforge projects or linux, which may not be representative of all open source projects. Yes it would be very difficult to survey more members, but how do we know that sourceforge members and linux hackers are not different than other projects?
Fourth, there listing of open source principles(slide 8) is only representative of a specific group of open source developers. The intellectual property ideas("Free speech, not free beer", and copyleft) don't apply to people not using the gpl. This may mis-represent the people who participated in the survey.
This survey is much more useful if, instead of claiming to represent all open source developers, it admitted to being primarily about linux/gpl developers. Or if more information was given about what projects(activity, license, and activity by developer) the participants of the sourceforge survey were involved in.
The survey is interesting if looked at in relation only to the sourceforge community, but is not able to be applied to all open source developers.
--xPhase
The following sentence is TRUE. The previous sentence is FALSE.
I'd bet that they have better grammar and spelling too.
Shadowbearer
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
I was one of the measly 2% of the survey respondents who was female. (Yes, guys, geek girls do exist- now wipe the slobber off your screen and move along please, nothing to see here.) But where oh where are all the other female open source folks? I mean, I know female CS types are rare, but are they rarer still in the open source world? If so, why?
I'd also be curious to know which *types* of open source projects seem to attract larger-than-usual numbers of women to the contributing ranks. From personal experience, I can say that Post-Nuke, an open source fork of PHP-Nuke, has a fairly high percentage of female participants/developers. But why? Maybe because it's modular and women can go off and work on a module on their own and then go back and submit it later, and thus feel less pressure to need to know all of the ins and outs of every little system. Or maybe it's because it's tempting to play around with modifying the themes/skins (not to get all stereotypical about women being attracted to the GUI end of things while guys do the coding of the guts of the program, but some stereotypes have a good basis in reality). Or maybe because it's a content management system, and women have long had a foothold with online personal publishing or personal communication systems (blogs, online diaries, IM'ing, plain ole personal home pages having long had a sizeable female early adopter contingent- geez, maybe we womenfolk will only pick up a technology if we can use it to *talk*?).
[sigh]
- Asparagirl
asparagirl at dca dot net
It's the pros who do the actual work. It's the weenies who sit around and bash Microsoft while pontificating and arguing the subtleties of the GPL vs. whatever or Linux vs. BSD on Slashdot all day.
Something that the clueful "corporate project managers" should look at here is that programmers: extremely capable and intelligent programmers who are probably qualified for just about any job, do their best work when they aren't limited by meetings, Gantt charts and unnecessary bureaucracy.
It is extremely unlikely that Linux, Apache, PostgreSQL, etc. could *ever* be developed in a corporate environment. Matter of fact, far simpler projects are seldom completed without a huge effort on the part of the engineers to overcome unnecessary and counterproductive management obstacles.
There's some valuable information here. Of course, it will likely be missed because everyone has to get to the meeting.
The benefits of this survey goes well beyond any real numbers. It does a great job illustrating, in very simple terms, what open source is and what makes it possible.
You may want to share it with others outside the Slashdot/Open Source community.
It's called More Than A Gigabuck
--
CPAN rules. - Guido van Rossum
I found the most interesting numbers to be on Page 37. There, 19% of respondents admitted that they were stealing time from their employers to write open-source software. Would anyone like to bet on what fraction of the 46% who answered "do not participate at work" were telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? What fraction of the "part of core job" respondents were in the "not known by supervisor" category at some point in their careers?
There are a lot of people who work on open-source software in their spare time. There are quite a few who get paid to do it. Bless them all. However, these numbers seem to indicate that at least 19% and probably much more than a third are regularly working on open-source projects while they're being paid to do something else. Maybe it's time to question whether the equation "open source == moral high ground" has any validity.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
On page 7, the authors make a distinction between three groups: "leadership", "virtual teams", and "user developers". Their selection methods seem to be skewed toward identifying many of the first group, somewhat less of the second, and relatively few of the third. I wonder - I really wonder - how their findings wrt motivation, experience level, or licit/illicit use of work time might be different if they'd managed to capture a more balanced cross-section of the three categories. Heck, it would help even to have an estimate in hand of the relative numbers of people in each category. At the very least, BCG should have asked in the survey which category the respondent felt best represented their own role in their open-source project(s).
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
Too right...
"Survey shows open source developers mostly veteran pros, not slashdot weenies. Like any survey, it's bound to miss some avenues of exploration"
Maybe next time they'll get the answer to the other question troubling historians of the browser wars of the 90's...are Netscape engineers weenies ?
A lot of things. Being a male CS geek, I've continually noticed the lack of women in the field (and lack of diversity in general) and have thought that there is a lot about our culture (North American, main stream) that pushes women towards artistic / expressive goals, while us guys get pushed towards math / science / engineering. The whole idea of tracking a student's process, especially using biased systems of analysis (SATs, for example) may have led to some of this.
I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but if most of the open source developers are ones who are working at programming full time in some tech oriented field. Maybe it is ok for the men in the field to spend all their spare time (and work time in some cases) hacking away on open source projects, but for women, it may be expected for them to be more of a social networker, so her time is limited and little left for open source work. The survey also points out the independent nature of the work, the whole striking out on one's own and doing something never done before (which is stereotypically a masculine trait).
It would be something to look into. I think taking a look at what women Open Source participants view on it, and compare that with men's view point (there is also no female open source Leader/ Speaker, or that I know of). Maybe a lot of CS women view the whole open source thing as a hobby or a guys only club or something.
I feel that if the open source movement is really going to gain strength, it has to increase in diversity (it is very accepting, but there may be some walls it is creating unknowingly, limiting the varity of participants). I believe most people have realized that having alternative view points on a problem usually leads to a better solution in the long run, so this is something that needs to be considered as the movement goes forward (and I don't see it as being as Ask Slashdot, either).
If an employer were to discover that their employees worked on these projects on company time, using company equipment, could they have a legal right to close parts of an open project?
The real problem is that the next generation of programmers is the clueless, GenX, bottom feeder, "I saw in USN&WR that there's big money in computers" types with no passion for the art. They're in college now or recently graduated in the last 5 years. They've been brought up with Windows and flashy GUI's. They view their home computer as primarily an entertainment device and their work as just a way to get paid. If they're interested in Linux, it's more for the trendiness, and they just talk/complain and don't act. (Slashdot'ers, most university LUG's). So do you expect these people to turn out some good code for the community?!
Somehow, these people need reached and inspired in the way that their predecessors were. Inspired about the technology itself: as a toy as well as a tool. Open Source is a great opportunity because it largely sets business aside.
People on sourceforge tend to have some actual development interest.
People sign up to linux-kernel because they want to be cool.
It's pretty obvious to me that OSDN has a vested interest in making their audience look as professional as possible. They can then justify higher advertising rates on their websites if they can show that open-source people = experienced (high-priced, good purchasing power/influence) IT professionals.
I'm not saying that OSDN slanted the methodology or results. I am saying its in their interest to do so, something worth keeping in mind. I'd agree that a survey is better than wild speculation, and a partner like BCG may help credibility of the results.
--LP
I'm a geek girl, and interestingly enough my day job is working on a content management system for a large company. I actually do some of the development on the CMS.
I love content management, but I don't particularly like programming. I'm not sure why. I know why I like content management -- scripting allows me to be creative. I love HTML, graphics, and PHP, and I particularly love putting all of those together to form a website. I came from a background of desktop publishing and journalism, and layout has always been my strength.
I like programming in scripting languages like PHP or sh, but I don't like Perl and I don't like hardcore languages like Java and C++. It seems to me that these languages get in my way more than anything else. When I want to write out a SQL result set, I want to just put in a table and drop in some special tags that let me echo out what I found. I don't like JSP's "heavy" syntax. It seems ugly to me. PHP is very elegant and simple, and that is what really appeals to me.
I think that women would have more success in the industry if this industry were more elegant. In general, I believe that women tend to design simple things that perform their function while looking fantastic, while men tend to not care how nice something looks and want function purely over form. This often comes down to men not understanding why, for instance, a lot of women (and a lot of non-geek men!) cringe when faced with a command line. Having come from a writer/artist background, it is important for me to be able to feel comfortable around my computers. I'm not a big fan of "pure power"; I want things that perform well and look nice while doing it.
I hate to say that most geek guys tend to criticize me for these types of feelings. I've been around critical men for long enough that the criticism tends to roll off. However, a lot of guys still don't understand that though I know what a motherboard is, I don't want 47 of them on my living room floor! I don't want my house to look like Star Wars, and I don't want it to look like a museum -- I just want to be comfortable living in it.
I think the programmer contingent will continue to be mostly men because it is not yet elegant. The Linux community will continue to be mostly men because Linux is not yet elegant. But women will thrive in usability groups and design houses where they can make things better and easier to use.
(The above is my opinion, and I don't speak for all the women out there.)
--SlashChick
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
FWIW, the only sourceforge-based project I participate in is SDCC (a C compiler for 8-bit microcontrollers), and my contributions to that project have been fairly minor. Most of my free software work in on my website.
Though not mentioned in the Register story, their purpose behind the survey was obviously to find ways to "harness" the open-source spirit within businesses, or something like that. Silly as it sounded, I filled the thing out anyway.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
Consider the group this was done on. Is it not without some bias?
Also given the current programming methodology, where the tools are
difficult to use by the typical user..... Oh, wait a minute...
Programming is the act of automating complexity that is made up of simpler
things. It is done in order to make repeatable things easy for the user to
do, again and again.
Programming can automate any field, inclusing human balance and movement
(segway) but for some strange reason automating th efield of programming
is not something yet to have reached even basic automations for the
typical user.
YEP. the research is greatly biased and based on software development
methodology that does not include many people.
There was a time when hackers were young and hobbists, that's a fact!
The only thing that has changed is they have grown up.
Will the next poll in 20 years be oriented and favorable to gray hair and
retirement funding?
Maybe it's time to change the software development methodology so as to
include user...... No, It is Time to do this. No Maybe About It!
I selected to be an (amateur) porn actress by day, and an Open Source Software geek at night.
Actually, my job keeps me busy only a few days in the month, so the rest of the time, I'm doing software development with the community.
One needs to make a living and do what they like the most. Luckily, I can do both.
PPA, the girl next door.
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
Work at a Microsoft shop for at least a few months and you'll be a zealot too.
Disclaimer: This is an opinion on the strengths and weaknesses of publically available source code. If you find this offensive, then maybe you need to learn how to take *constructive criticism* as you're missing the point of these tips.
:) But I absolutely do *not* have time to slog through poorly written code. If a programmer can't even take the time to write readable code, it's not worth reading IMHO.
// UNREADABLE
// space around arguments
// space after if and around operators
/. compresses contigious white space, between "char" and "*pbuffer", but fortunately I was able to use non-breaking spaces for alignment.)
... args ... )
// invoke Foo
/. adds them in.)
:)
I use Linux (for my Firewall) and Win2K (for Desktop gaming) I am very happy with the *functionality* of free code.
What I love about programs that provide source:
- Tons of free programs! (Everything from OSes, Compilers, Editors, Office Apps, and even Games)
- The source is available. As a programer, if I find a trivial bug I can fix it, or submit a patch. It empowers the USERS (something closed source programs will never be able to provide by definition.)
Where public source falls down, and what I hate about it:
- Most of it is so poorly written, with bad naming conventions, lack of internal documentation (no comments!?) that it is a complete and utter TURN-OFF to even bother hacking it.
I know, don't knock a gift horse. I admire the *functionality* (Linux and *BSD make great servers!) of open source programs. They work beautifully! (once you put the time investment reading ALL the docs
It's taken me a LONG time to learn how to write clean code. I'll give some examples and rules of thumb that I have found extremely handy.
(I use C++ but these rules-of-thumbs can be used in any language.)
The first few tips will seem Hungarian notation -ish, but it's not as anal rentative as true Hungarian notation.
1. Prefix pointers with 'p' (This is pretty standard, everyone is familiar with it)
2. Prefix all globals with 'g'
3. Prefix all member variables with '_' (underscope)
4. Prefix all references with 'r'.
5. Constants are in uppercase. (I also avoid #defines so that the compiler can make use of type checking)
i.e.
#define BUFFER_WIDTH 80
const int BUFFER_WIDTH = 80;
5. Make abundant use of whitespace!! Align things up vertically in the code.
So MANY programmers don't have a clue about how even adding a TINY amount of whitespace makes a world of difference for readability. Would you read a book or a math formula without any whitespace!!?? If not, then why should you expect code to be any different??
i.e.
if(a+b) {
Foo( arg1, arg2 );
if (a + b)
char     *pBuffer;
const int BUFFER_WIDTH = 80;
const int BUFFER_HEIGHT = 25;
See how types are aligned in 1st column, variable names in 2nd column, and the value in the 3rd column.
(ARGH,
6. Putting functions in alphabetical order (so anyone using a 'dumb editor' can quickly find them.
7. For function definitions, putting *one* space between the function name and parenthesis. This lets you do a search to locate the function definition.
i.e.
>
void Foo (
{
}
Whenever the function is called, there is NO space between the function name and parenthesis.
i.e.
Foo( arg1, arg2 );
8. Use descriptive variable names! Using the classic 'i' as an iterator name is DUMB. It doesn't tell the reader WHAT you're iterating over. X & Y are "OK" if you're iterating over a 2D matrix since they have become a defacto standard.
If you can't think of a good descriptive variable name, chances are you don't completely understand the subject / formula. Coming up with good names is HARD, but don't use that as an excuse to get away with sloppy naming.
9. Use a line delimiter to seperate functions, ALONG with a comment describing what the function does.
i.e.
// Returns the size of a 8-bpp bitmap in bytes.
// param theWidth Width in pixels
// param theHeight Height in pixels
//
int CalcSize( const int theWidth, const int theHeight )
{
}
(Note: There shouldn't be any spaces in the = seperator but
Ok, I've done enough "ranting"
Feel free to email me if you want to discuss coding styles that you find helpfull. I'm especially interested in learning why someone finds a rule-of-thumb usefull.
Cheers
--
Lameness filter SUCKS for posting code snippets!
Warning: We're are on the drifting sands of OT lands, but let me answer to you, as I suspect that your comment was a mean to ignitiate my reply.
butt-ugly, I don't think so. On the contrary, I am from Asian lineage with an adorable face and a cute butt. I fit more the second description in your comment.
That said, if I had the choice, and the money, I would be a philanthrop. I am not materialist except for my windup toy collection and would gladly skip the money part in my sex activities if I could afford it. Regarding Open Source software, I just like programming and find it simple when I can look anywhere I want.
Porn is not prostitution but If prostitution was legal, STD would be under much more control than it is now. The same goes with hard drugs.
Who said that Eve was the first whore in history btw?
PPA, the girl next door.
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
But one has to remember that we are in a society (most of us anyway) that emphasizes different things based on ones sex.
The way our society starts pushing upon children gender roles (pink, fluffy things are for girls, blue, GI joes are for guys), makes it hard to actually test aptitude and relate it to a specific sex. (Gender != sex). How old are the people in the study. It is like saying that people from X country are not good at math, and it must be genetic, because everyone from X country does horrible on standardized test scores. Of course, if one looks into the social aspects of X country, maybe math isn't emphasized, or used at anything higher than basic addition / subtraction.
One can say that the brain is like a group of muscles. In western society, guys are given more exercise of the parts of their mind related to spatial ability, and girls given more exercise of the memory storage and recollection parts of their mind. How can one sex is better at math or science, when it isn't even the sex of the person that is being tested, it is the role that our society has put upon someone based on their sex. So, in our society, the someone who is male is socialized in such a way that they have different use of their brain than someone who is female.
Deciding that it is just biological, and that women are naturally more capable at some things, and men aren't, etc. and leaving the issue at that, just continues the cycle. Because all it does is strengthen the notion that there is a biological difference, when there isn't (because of the idea of the biological difference, people don't realize that is there actions that are actually creating the discrepancy that they see linked to a biological base).