Slashdot Mirror
Windows Tracks CDs & DVDs You Watch
lcypher writes "The AP is reporting that
there is spyware within Windows Media Player
8(which ships with XP), which records the song
titles and DVD titles that a user listens to or views in WMP8. Microsoft execs claim no marketing use right now, but they won't rule it out. "
This looks like less of a big deal than the article
makes it out to be, but it definitely could be used
for evil.
Turns out they are just tracking all the pron
file names so they can track them down on
kazaa easier.
Those lazy bastards. (:
time to add :)
whatever.the.hell.mediaplayer.uses 127.0.0.1
in the hosts file, and maybe a quick webpage to return
Mlk and a vacume cleaner
the spam-email from that could be veryyy intresting
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
DVD: "1,000 ways to torture a Billionaire", widescreen format. No region encoding.
...
---
But anyway, fair enough. What I'd like to know is how easy it is to insert my own random data into that playlist before it goes off to Microsoft?
Seems the only way to fight this will be with dis-info
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
If your IP address is static as opposed to dynamic, Microsoft may possess the ability to compare it to the one used to register Windows XP.
Do you like German cars?
The real problem isn't so much what Microsoft will do with the information. I mean really who cares.
But what other 3rd parties could do with it is really disconcerting. Even assuming MS doesn't sell the information, the information is still being collected and deposited somewhere. Somewhere that maybe a detective or the FBI could trace you down. Or your system administrator, wife or mother-in-lawyer.
Just for innocently checking out that warez movie link...or borrowing a DVD that happened to be ripped..
If you read the article all this "database" is a copy from the CDDB records (or whatever CDDB is called these days) used for caching. You stick a CD in, it generates a checksum and asks CDDB for the artist/track listing and stores it locally, so it doesn't have to ask again later. As far as I'm aware, there isn't any sending of this database.
It appears they extended to DVDs as well as CDs (just a bigger database I suppose).
The article is a bunch of fluff for a functionality we've used for a long time with numerous programs such as XMCD, AudioCatalyst, etc etc. Microsoft adds it to media player and omg, privacy for getting the disc information for you. I'm pretty sure there's a button to turn it off.
(Gracenote is probably using the CD request data anyway for marketting purposes these days).
/// Zoid.
All the article says is that Windows Media Player does a CDDB lookup when it plays a CD, and caches the result.
If you look in your home directory on your Linux box, you'll probably find a similar cache.
Someone just noticed that you can reconstruct people's listening habits from their CDDB lookups - no big deal.
Several weeks ago when you bought our webcam, we decided that for non-related marketing purposes that we would randomly start recording data and sending it back to the company. We don't intend to sell these pictures to anyone.
"Can't sleep. Clowns will eat me"
I admit it, I use windows. I have a couple legit copies of WinME. Every time I use media player (rarely), I have to refuse to upgrade... Which brings me to my real point: I will not upgrade past this point (WinME). WinME is it for me. It may not be great, but it runs what I need it to: lots of different sorts of development stuff (mostly java), CAD and 3D stuff, games, etc. I'm a serious software engineer and when I want to deploy I use either FreeBSD or RedHat Linux. And I always keep those up to date (relatively). But Winblows is stuck for me... and this is just another reason.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
By default Winamp logs "anonymous usage statistics" unless you turn it off during the install.
You can also turn off WMP's unique identifier thing if you're worried about privacy.
Honestly though, set down your tinfoil hats for a second: Why do we really care?
Really?
Maybe it's just me but I honestly don't care if some site logs that I viewed porn from so and so site for so many minutes. Why should I?
I also have very serious doubts that MS would ever sell the information it'd collect from it. The money from that is absolutely tiny and the feedback from the public would be absolutely horrible. What I see instead is a more personalized music service, kind of like Launch.com, where it personalizes and gives you music and movie picks based upon what you watch. Amazon does this too when you're logged in, keeping track of recently viewed items, etc.
False:Windows Tracks CDs & DVDs You Watch
True:Windows Media Player 8 Tracks Media played.
And the most important piece of information in the article is: "If you're watching DVDs you don't want your wife to know about, you might not want to give her your password," said David Caulton, Microsoft's lead program manager for Windows Media."
Quoth the article: "Microsoft said the program creates the log file so a user does not have to download repeatedly the same track, album or movie information. The company said the ID number was created simply to allow Media Players users to have a personal account on the Web site dealing with the software."
It's just a client side cache. That's all. The windows CD player has done this since at least windows 3.1 (although the user had to enter the track titles by hand.)
"...no information is collected on Microsoft's servers that would be personally identifiable..."
So, in other words, Microsoft (having engineered the world's most widely used operating system) still hasn't figured out how to pinpoint where data transfer is coming from. Because it seems to me, oddly, that if I'm sending someone data through a system they set up that I don't know about... they must know about it, and also must know how to analyze the results of all their data-grabbing. And see where the crap is coming from. And keep track of what I'm listening to.
I don't use Windows Media player, personally. But if it ever came down to the log files, I'm sure MS could say to someone who ripped the software: "Actually, you have an unauthorized copy of windowsXP, how else would you be transmitting data through our security loophole with the same key as those twenty thousand other people?"
Install Winamp and/or some other program that will pre-empt WMP and force it to preserve file associations. I would hope that one of the commericial DVD player programs would do the same thing.
Does Microsoft not learn? Do they not remember the stink over the tracking in Office documents? The stink over the UID with Intel Processors? Why would they think that collecting a list of CDs and DVDs that we've watched/listened to and then transmitting it back to Microsoft is a good idea? I mean seriously the OS has enough problems without having to worry about the damn thing spying on me.
What do we have to do to communicate to companies that we don't want to give them our information, unless we specifically opt-in. How hard is that? I haven't met many people that don't think it's a good idea to do it that way. Privacy is preserved, but you can choose to give away your privacy if they offer you a good enough deal. I always fill out the various opt out policies, but it's scary how often I have to go hunting in legalese to find out exactly where I need to send it.
While obviously spyware is a ripe pain in the ass. It only spies on two formats; DVDs and CDs. So: Who out there running Windows XP actually uses Windows Media Player to view their DVDs? Almost all retail video cards equipped for DVD playback come with DVD software. There are also a few wonderful third party DVD players. And who listens to CDs? I assume everyone out there rips their CDs to MP3, and then listens through winamp or the like. Bah. -Jeepthang
-------------------------------
High-Res Beer Bottle Collection
Logging
Logging occurs when information is sent from the Player to a streaming media server. Logging informs the server of various pieces of information so that services can be improved. The information includes such details as: connection time, Internet protocol (IP) address of the computer that connected to the server, Player version, Player identification (ID) number, date, protocol, and so on. Most information is neither unique, nor traceable to your machine.
My god man! What else do they want to take? Not traceable to my static IP? The Player ID Number? Who the hell are they kidding when they say it isn't unique?
This is a load of horseshit, thats what it is. Microsoft is babbling at the general public with ridiculous lies. I *use* windowsXP because I think it's good software, and I mildly support microsoft in some things, but my lord, this "informative privacy statement" is crap.
Microsoft uses secret IE tools known as "HISTORY", "CACHE" and user's "IP ADDRESS" TO TRACK EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON THE INTERNET.
I bet it gets 500+ comments.
S.
http://www.stepto.com
It's a feature if it only caches it.
It's spyware when it sends the data back to Microsoft.
What MediaPlayer is doing is nothing new -- it's equivalent to nearly every other player out there with CDDB (or equiv) capabilities with client-side caching so you don't have to hit the internet database repeatedly for your collection of tunes. BFD. It's not uploading anything back to anyone.
Of course, mainstream media can spoonfeed the word/concept "log" (eg. history, audit, etc.) easier than it can "cache".
Fortunately, their privacy policies state otherwise:
It doesn't now, but if an investor comes along with a big suitcase of cash, I wonder if their privacy policy would change overnight?
adam
Somebody, give me one example where:
Technology permitted capture of more information about us, our habits, our preferences, our purchases, any activity; and a company or State passed on that opportunity.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
According to the article, media player is just downloading the title and track listings of cds and dvds and storing them so it can display them whenever you put the same disc in. Winamp has been doing this forever, and so have a billion other media apps. Microsoft may indeed be conspiring to take over the world and subject us all to their evil whims, but this feature doesn't really seem to have much to do with that diabolical plan.
I'm thinking Bill Gates is just trying to get a nice fat list of popular DVDs so he can run and download them from DALnet.
<BillGates> Gee fellas, could you please help me download good pornographic films?
<@Antel> lol, get out of here you l0ser
<BillGates> But wait, I'm really desperate here. I gotta OC-48 and a 12TB IBM RAID storage tower.
*** Antel sets mode +b BGates@microsoft.com
*** BillGates was kicked from #pr0n by Antel (get lost you geek!)
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Why does your local supermarket have a discount card? Remember when sale items didn't require you to scan that little keychain barcode[or enter your phone number at Dominicks] before you get the discount? For some reason that I don't understand, IANAMD [I am not a marketing drone], it is good to know what people purchase. And once you scan in your card, you get your entire purchase recorded, not just the sale items you bought. Someone should check out their privacy policies!
adam
As part of downloading the information about songs and movies from the Web site, the program also transmits an identifier number unique to each user on the computer. That creates the possibility that user habits could be tracked and sold for marketing purposes.
The same company that assigns you a unique number for the downloads you make also has the database you were required to register with in order to activate your WindowsXP. Manipulated properly it would be a rather simple task to match a real name and address with what you watch on media player - especially if this 'unique number' and the registration number for XP were one and the same.
And note that Microsoft hasn't ruled out using the data for marketing purposes. Imagine the look on your spouse's face when you suddenly start getting free trial issues of Spanking Teen Cheerleaders! . Or the look on your face when the FBI comes crashing through the door because an 'anonymous tip' from a 'reputable source' claims that you were watching illegal porn videos.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Don't forget that it's way cool to hate MS. Once you're in that crowd, you's instantly popular.
"Derp de derp."
Quite frankly, if I wrote a media player, I would include a robust database that recorded play history. I would actually make the database a big feature...you could browse through it, run stats, and delete it if you please.
The deal is, Microsoft puts all of this crap on our 100GB hard drives that we can never figure out what it does. They also never give you decent controls over the inner workings of the machines. It's sad to think that Microsoft might be storing information that could come up in a lawsuit against me. The real kicker is that they haven't provided a decent way for me to view this information.
Just curious. This issue's new to me and I'm curious what the privacy advocates are worried about.
I'm a little concerned that MS might detect that I ripped a DVD so I could use a particular clip as reference footage for an animation I'm working on, perhaps use the DMCA to fine me for it. Other than that I don't really care if they know what I'm watching or not.
Is there a larger problem I should be aware of? Could somebody explain to me what MS or anybody else could do with data about what movies I watch, or what websites I visit, or whether I'm attracted to either T or A that would be bad?
"Derp de derp."
It's gotten ridiculous -- WinAmp is bloated spyware, RealPlayer is the same (plus it's a fscking virus that changes all your settings, sticks its shortcuts everywhere, and inserts itself into your Systray).
And when I use the Sony Media Bar software that came with my Vaio, to try to listen to a CD while browsing the web and performing another task (graphics or HTML editing, for example), the damn thing crashes!
The machine has a perfectly good DVD-ROM drive. If I could just run a headphone jack directly out of it, and play CDs with no stupid software layer involved, I'd be happy. But I can't.
So now, sadly, I have to listen to music on a portable CD player sitting on my desk. My perfectly usable computer has been handicapped by its software.
The worst part is, that when I see what's coming down the pipe -- region-coded everything, RIAA/MPAA copy "protection" lockdowns destroying fair use, the death of webcasting, even more media mega-mergers, and spyware in EVERYTHING -- I know that it's going to get a lot worse.
The big question is, will Microsoft respond in the same way and back down?
Got Wisdom?
>WinAmp is bloated spyware
Huh? I'm a faithful winamp user -- have been since it was shareware. When you install, they clearly give you an option to "submit anonymous usage statistics", which you can very easily uncheck.
If you want the term 'spyware' to mean anything, try using it when warranted.
Sam
But not in and of itself. The thing that is bugging me about windows is that there seems to be more and more spilled about spyware/spyware-type things in XP. Possible universal backdoors for encryption, for example. Nothing bad has ever come of any of it, but what bothers me is that as consumers we're getting used to hearing about this kind of shit regularly, and this is the stuff that Microsoft is willing to admit! I mean, lets be frank, if M$ wanted to lie about something evil in there, they'd more than willing. The question on my mind is can we trust Microsoft(or for that matter any proprietary operating system manufacturer)to not spy on us? There are a lot of people out there, Government/Marketing/et. al, who would be thrilled to get a piece of some secret evil.
OK, yes WMP from version 7 onwards is a nasty beast.
;).
This article is mostly scare tactics, as ever since the beginning of time there's been a file named CDPLAYER.INI in the windows folder that stores CDDB info. A local cache should actually enhance your privacy as it will reduce calls to central servers when you play your CDs or whatever.
WMP 7+ however doesn't use this file. If you look in your Windows folder again, you'll notice a couple of files named WMSysPrx.prx and another one named similarly that actually stores the song database. That's how the 'media library' feature works, it's all stored in there -- you would expect a program that catalogues songs to store a list of media played somewhere, wouldn't you?
It's true WMP does track how many times you play a song. But discovering the fact isn't aexactly a journalistic coup, it's listed in the program itself. Look in the 'Media Library', this is listed along with all the rest of the ID3 information (at least in WMP 7)... not exactly a huge secret. I have never heard of MS sending this info off to its site before... that sounds a lot like how Real got into trouble a few years back, and also a lot like a very inventive and paranoid reporter. If you're worried, delete those files mentioned above every so often.
The unique ID is more interesting. I really recommend turning this off in your WMP options, as it's only really useful if you're buying proprietry WMA files online... and somehow I don't think many slashdotters will be doing that
The worst part is that it opens up the recently discovered SuperCookie exploit in which websites can embed a player in a page and get it's ID number. Since it's globablly unique and installed on most computers, it's a great way of tracking users who are savvy enough to turn off cookies.
So nuke the ID feature quickly from your player options... even if you use *AMP to play your sounds, you could still be vulnerable to this.
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
Lightwave isn't available on Linux. Until it does, I'm a Windows user. Lightwave is what my living is based on.
"Derp de derp."
Ok, I don't think I was clear enough in my first post. Let me re-state. Lets say, hypothetically, that my computer sent back data about every movie I watch, every TV show I watch, and every little thing I do on the web to MS. What could they do with it?
"Derp de derp."
Ok, clicked on Help->Privacy Statement and was taken to this page: Privacy Statement
Seems kind of self explanatory... again this is the same with any software... if you don't like using it, then don't... i really couldn't care if microsoft is keeping track of what music I listen to or dvds... if in the end all it means is i get information on something i might like (like amazon does) then... i suppose thats ok. I think I'd only have a problem with it, if they used it for evil purposes... which I'm failing to see. Now if they somehows used this to help the RIAA, then i'd be pissed because thats none of their business as an Operating System provider. (IMHO of course)
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
Hmm... I got an idea! Lets all get Windows XP, download Morpheus, and download the shit out of Futurama, and then watch it! I bet when MS gets wind of so many people watching Futurama, they'll buy FOX and make them continue the show!! Spyware beats the pants off of Neilson ratings.
Whatcha think, sirs?
"Derp de derp."
May I make a few small suggestions?
from the article:
"This is essentially a case where it (the ID) doesn't serve any purpose and it isn't used," [Microsoft's] Caulton said.
Which begs the obvious question of why put it in there in the first place.
The end of the article takes an interesting twist:
In a recent memo, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates ordered his company to check for privacy and security concerns before adding new features.
"Users should be in control of how their data is used," Gates wrote. "Policies for information use should be clear to the user. Users should be in control of when and if they receive information to make best use of their time."
[...]
He said the feature seems to conflict with Gates' directive.
"You can really see the Microsoft culture coming through that Gates wants to change. These guys are digging in their heels," he said.
Bill Gates is not a stupid person. Let us suppose for a few moments that he really has seen the writing on the wall and is sincere about this new direction for the company.
Gates bred this culture that he is now trying to change. And the paradigm shift for his company is much sharper philosophically than the previous one of desktop- to network-centric computing.
And then there is the very real argument that Microsoft's proprietary, closed-source code policy is antithetical, or at the very least sub-prime for dealing with privacy and security concerns.
What's an ersatz-visionary computer mogul to do?
evanchik.net
replied to this on another message board. I'm going to repeat here what I said there, for the main reason that I referenced this place in the original...
*****
Stuff and nonsense. The conclusion you have drawn is wrong; and the article is a typical example of the mainstream press cottoning on years too late and blowing something out of proportion.
WMP is doing nothing more than a CDDB lookup, which is then stored locally. THERE ARE COUNTLESS PROGRAMS WHICH DO THIS; any good audio program or CD ripper does the same.
WMP8 adds a DVD lookup to this, presumably for the purpose of adding a DVD entry to a playlist. I haven't heard of any program which does this before, but it's no more intrusive than the above CDDB lookup.
The information is never sent to Microsoft after it has been collected. The article somehow leaps to this conclusion from the statement that the data is stored locally.
The Washington Post is not the place to go for IT information. Nor are its conclusions to be immediately taken and used as propaganda. While MS are a not-nice company in general, this (10-year-late) online tabloid rant can hardly be taken as an example of their wrongdoings.
This is the kind of thing which tends to get the Linux rabble-rousers on Slashdot worked up, until someone points out the facts of the case. Oh well, false alarm.
*****
Turns out I'm a prophet, it seems.
Do carry on; I so love long debates about non-events and factual inaccuracies here.
- Chris
FACT:
Microsoft has this patent:
System and methods for selecting music on the basis of subjective content.
OPINION:
I bet they'd love to get their hands on these logs/cache/whatever... if what people choose to listen to doesn't count as subjective, I dunno what does!
Draw your own conclusions. I am merely presenting facts and opinions.
It's clear from the design of all of Windows XP, not just WMP8, that Microsoft does not want you to have privacy. For example, consider how many holes Windows XP expects you to punch in your firewall.
This anti-privacy attitude is similar to that of the U.S. government. U.S. government agencies are the biggest, most well-funded surveillance organizations in the history of the world. For support for that statement see What should be the Response to Violence?
At the bottom of the anti-privacy attitude is a feeling of superiority. Below that is an inability to make successful connections with other people. It's a kind of mild mental illness that has the characteristic that those who have it find it difficult to realize that they have it.
Bush's education improvements were
For a bunch of technical details about read this posting on Bugtraq.
"WMP extracted movie information from this file and then added this information to a database file, named wmplibrary_v_0_12.db, which is located on my hard disk in the directory " C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Media Index". I didn't see any method of removing movie information from this file, so it appears to me that the file keeps a complete record of all movies watched that have ever been watched on my computer."
Maybe because fuckmicrosoft.com is one of the most poorly informed, unreliable "news sources" out there. Case in point? Read their latest "Index.dat" story.
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
"computers are devices used to pirate media" and "Microsoft being as large and ubiquitous as it is, it's being thought of as the poster boy for computers", Microsoft has little choice but to play nice with media companies and the DCMA. They'd be an easy target if they didn't, unlike Linux (too fragmented in the sense there's no single legal entity you can blame for "pirating"). Also, don't forget Apple has put some rather nasty DCMA-friendly measures into their crippled DVD burners as well ...
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
When a CD is played, the player downloads the disc name and titles for each song from a Web site licensed by Microsoft. That information is stored on a small file on each computer in the latest version of the software.
This sounds to me very much like some sort of CDDB cache. XMMS has done this since the first line of code was written.
I personally dislike v7.x and v8.x. I still like 6.4 as a simple player. I avoid v7.x and v8.x as much as I can.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
What total a**holes. Next time someone tells you they work for Microsoft, ask them incredulously why they haven't quit yet!
Everyone knows that just as with mathematics, you can do anything in software. The point is, only the mentally damaged and egomaniacal build this kind of bloated, smirking, F***ED by Redmond again supercookie loggers into the monopoly operating system.
CALL TO ARMS!
I'm sure I'm one of the few, but I don't think it's bad at all.
/. article, I got scared. I use mediaplayer to keep track of my CD's. I also rip my CD's into wma format using mediaplayer (I'm sure atleast half the people on /. hates me now). I use it because it's convinient, and I think the GUI is nice.
When I first saw the
However, after reading the article in the Washington Post, I don't think it's bad at all. I expected that the album and songnames downloaded to my computer would be stored in a file somewhere. Kinda hard to apply the names to the songs without storing them somewhere. I think this is another one of those Microsoft bashing stories. I mean, come on, if Microsoft says they are not using the information for marketing purposes, then I believe them.
I have used linux, I know how program in Assembly and I still spend most of my time in a DOS box. I'm not a "new GUI user", but I don't think that Microsoft are bad and evil. I like some of their products, and I use the ones I like. Mediaplayer happens to be one of them.
"It's an integral part of the operating system."
At least, according to Microsoft.
From: Microsoft Legal Department
To: Valued Customer
Subject: Windows Media Player Usage Report
Hello,
we have noticed you have played back pirated episodes
of Star Trek Enterprise downloaded from the net.
This is a violation of federal law.
We charge you $10,000 for this information; if we do not receive this amount of money, your registration information (as well as the information you used to register on any websites, as tracked by Internet Explorer) will be forwarded to the MPAA.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
The problem is, that when requesting the information from that web site your Media Player may actually give out your unique user id (does it? can that be turned off? I don't know). Farther down the article a MS spokesperson says, that they don't use the ID in the process (which might either mean they throw it away serverside for now, or that this version of Mediaplayer doesn't send it), but may do so "on behalf of the users" in the future. Then the MS droid spins of into praising Bill Gates standing up for user privacy. I must say that some actions of Microsoft don't fit that privacy philosophy (for example like outfitting mediaplayer with a unique id at all).
--
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
I want Futurama dammit! If it takes FOX knowing my individual watching habits for that show, they can HAVE IT. :P
"Derp de derp."
Touche. :)
"Derp de derp."
Before I read the list of responses, I thought I knew more or less what spyware is.
I thought it was something that delivered information about me without my permission.
Much as my fingers burn typing anything kindly towards Microsoft (I still haven't used up all the anger from corrupted PowerPoint files working on a past job), I don't see that here.
This stuff seems to be potential, not actual, spyware, although Microsoft's reaction would give me the heebie-jeebies if I used the stuff.
True, the software generates information that could be very interesting to some people and that would royally piss me off if it were being sent out to anybody.
But that's true of damned near everything I do or use on my computer (Linux, not Windows).
The sending's the thing, not the collecting. As at least one poster points out, the cache actually improves your privacy by reducing the number of times you go to the original database.
So long as the info stays on your machine, it ain't spyware.
Check back tomorrow, though.
What kind of marketing data are they going to get from "user 3453845 watches the hell out of 'tina3.wmv'"?
You laugh now but soon, all your popups will be for Jergens, Vasoline and inflatable girlfriends.
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
Personaly I don't care about it that much, but Its easy to see how sombody sniffing your packets might find something embarassing. Over zealous investigator do have a way of making mountains out of mole hills, I guess they take it personal when thay waist days of time investigating stupid trivial things that don't amount to much.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Not so. WMP8 (and WMP7) were always shitty players.
Damn straight. My biggest peeve with WMP--you can't launch multiple copies at once! I do graphics development, so I can't listen to a CD in WMP and then watch an MPEG at the same time. Yeah, I could use Winamp, but my install has "mysteriously" stopped working in XP. Guess it's time to figure it out...
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
They'll fidn out all I watch on WMP is internet porno. Which is an interesting metric. Until now, Redmond's stayed out of the pr0nline gig, and I feel the industry has been waiting for a true killer app for a while.
The time is now for Open Source porno to combat this future menace!
Hey freaks: now you're ju
I'll agree with the bloat - I have a fair amount of bug issues, too - especially when using non-mp3 file formats like vqf and ogg.
Once again, /. over-reacts.
maybe M$ is just trying to compile thier own database whitout have to do the work?
http://Lenny.com
IT GOES TO THE CDDB OR ITS EQUIVALENT! And it downloads track information! And then it stores it so you don't have to waste bandwidth to look for it over and over again.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Why the fuck don't you guys go and recompile a kernel or something instead of wasting my time with this !news.
Brant
Argle. Bargle.
I just found out this morning that IE 6 on Windows 2000 keeps a record of all the web sites I've visited! Microsoft doesn't tell anybody about this, but you can see if for yourself if you click that mysterious button on the toolbar that looks kind of like a sundial. There it is, a list of all the sites you've visited, sorted by domain and by date!
The worst part is, Microsoft doesn't deny that they could use this information for marketing!
The only way these customer-hostile corporations will get the message is if we vote with our wallets. Don't use IE! Use only browsers that don't maintain this so-called "History" log! Power to the people!
</sarcasm>
By now, everyone knows that this behavior inside WMP is just CDDB lookup caching. Every CD player I've ever seen has done the same thing. For that matter, so does every program that caches anything, from your web browser to your email program to... well, anything.
You can all stand down from red alert now. Cancel the march on Washington.
Ahem.
After the furor many years ago about how video rental stores should not disclose their customer's renting profiles (I forget, was it a Supreme Court nominee renting pr0n?), I would think that some similar restrictions would be in order for what WMP discloses to third parties.
I mean, if I actually rented those titles through WMP and Microsoft you might say there would be some excuse for their knowing what I've rented.
But if I bought or rented those titles elsewhere, why is it any of their business to know that information any more than it is the business of, say, The Weekly World News' to know what I've played?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Right did you also ignore the following parts?
"As part of downloading the information about songs and movies from the Web site, the program also transmits an identifier number unique to each user on the computer. That creates the possibility that user habits could be tracked and sold for marketing purposes."
"Microsoft said the program creates the log file so a user does not have to download repeatedly the same track, album or movie information. The company said the ID number was created simply to allow Media Players users to have a personal account on the Web site dealing with the software."
Now what if you don't want a personal account from the website? What if you want a nice anonymous login?
I did note that it is currently just a cache for ease of use, what I didn't like (besides auto updates with XP) is the following quote.
"Jonathan Usher, another Windows Media executive, said Microsoft has no plans to market aggregate information about its customers' viewing habits, but would not rule it out."
They have no plans, but couldn't be spared the effort to say that they have no intent in collecting our information (without allowing us to turn it off) and sell it... Please.
When you install WMP 7, it shows you a privacy statement describing what information they use and how they use it. It's not a surprise to anyone that they can track your usage. That's the reason I always keep WMP 6.4, and I don't use ME/XP.
/.ers never complain about the fact that Google tracks you the same way...
If this surprises you, you haven't been paying attention...
Of course, the
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Of course, this is all because I showed her the new Imac ;-)
But for me, it's Linux all the way. My fiance likes Linux too, but it just doesn't have all the software she wants/needs.
If I can just find a few more Linux apps that'll work for her, I may get us both a Linux laptop.
For me, I'm completely done with windows, I will never buy another copy again.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
How to disable this feature:
The file, wmplibrary_v_0_12.db, contains in cleartext the name of every movie you've ever watched with media player. The names are in cleartext but each byte is spaced out with a pad byte, so you can't just grep for the names you're looking for.
If you delete the file, WMP regenerates it on use.
But, if you create the file as a zero-byte file, WMP does not fix it and does not store any information about what WMP is playing, ripping, burning, etc.
Tested Today, 2/21/02, with Windows 2000 and WMP 7.1. Oh, they didn't mention it's not just XP? It's not just XP.
--
You're Reading Managed Agreement
Gasp! Those links are to software that's not endorsed by a Giant Corporation, and allow you to play any music you could possibly want to! How can you even consider giving Consumers that kind of choice? Its evil, I tell you, pure evil!
For those moderators lacking a sense of humor: The above is satire, and intended to be funny. Moderate accordingly
Media Player will be used to extort money from users, media companies and advertisers. Microsoft wants to be the asshole in the middle and wants to use that position to make money. They have created their own media formats to break at will, a method to do it, and put it all in their EULA. What more can you ask for? Do you really think that they won't sell your information? Oh, I suppose you forgot how they sold "real estate" on your desktop.
The only way for them to keep themselves in that position is to eliminate every other option. If you continue to use M$, your internet will have three channels and you will never be able to contribute. Your money goes to those who would enslave you.
Let's see, M$ can write files to my computer that I can't delete and can access my computer in ways that I can not. They must be root, and I am not.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
No, I would not. I expect programs to do what I ask them to when I ask them to. I'd expect a program that catalogues songs to store the songs I asked it to and present them to me in an organized way later. This "service" does nothing like that for me. What it does is store a list of all the songs I ever played so that M$ can read it, per their new EULA that alows them to spy on every thing I do, I mean alows them to prevent me from pirating music. Right. The new XP identity keeper that uses hardware installed and other checks to protect the OS from unauthorized modifications and use should make sure you act good. They don't need cookies or anything else.
By the M$ EULA they can write files, you can not. You are no longer root user of any M$ box.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
>
> You laugh now but soon, all your popups will be for Jergens, Vasoline and inflatable girlfriends.
And your copy of XP will stop working every time you view "ballmer_monkeyboy.mpg" or "developers.mpg"
If enough people stopped bying DVD (for example) because they didn't like region control, the Studios would feel it in their pockets and would relax the situation.
More likely they'll just move to the newest media format with ultra-strict DRM sooner than originally planned.
You laugh now but soon, all your popups will be for Jergens, Vasoline and inflatable girlfriends.
They sure will! *boing*
Ultimately because when you get stuff straight from the source with Microsoft, you often get even more spin then you would get from independant news agencies. I would love to believe everything that everyone tells me, but try asking Microsoft about their latest security flaw or their new policies about dealing with vulnerabilities. You get a lot of denial and marketing babble.
/. account, some things I don't mind being a known quantity. The SSN is something entirely different and is explicitly being used for a purpose that it wasn't meant to be used for. SSN's also are not required (except with major financial transactions), if someone asks for it say no.
As for why I have a
Ultimately the issue (for me) is about the choice. I want to be able to choose where my info goes and who gets it. I usually don't have problems with companies collecting information on me for their own use (and assuming that it's fairly limited or anonymous). I do mind when they sell my name and address to telemarketers and other businesses. I also mind when they try and create "total profiles" like Doubleclick was trying to do...
The reason your entire viewing habits are available to MS is because every time you insert a DVD, WMP8 contacts an MS website with your GUID and the DVD's TOC. This is in addition to keeping a log of DVD's on your computer. The ostensible purpose for the request is to get the DVD's "title and chapter information."
t m
This begs the question: what is a DVD's "title and chapter information," anyway?
What possible purpose does having it serve?
We all know that CD player programs call up CDDB because there's no track and album titles handy on the disc. That's fine and good: perfectly legitimate use of network callback. Note: there's no need at all for any personally identifying information (GUID, cookie, or whatever) in that transaction... but that's not my main point.
Unlike a CD, a DVD has every piece of information you already need included, along with a custom interface, etc etc. And in all the coverage I've seen of this issue, no one seems to be catching on to the fact that, as far as anyone can tell:
DVDs are not CDs. There is no justifiable need for any user to have a DVD's "title and chapter" info at all, let alone for them to give a unique identifier to MS while requesting it.
So why go to all the trouble of building a scalable web application to service a non-feature?
Sure, MS is rich, but I guess conservatively that this functionality was a low six figure outlay to start, and it creates a neverending and not inconsiderable ongoing support cost to maintain a database and a server farm. It has to be big: they're servicing every XP/WMP8 user in the world, after all.
On a final note, let's consider the infamous Windows GUID. It's generated from a variety of sources: your PIII Processor Serial Number, if available, your ethernet MAC address, and I believe several other pieces of optional identifiable hardware are potentially tapped.
Microsoft is the same company that silently attached GUID's to every Word document you produce, by the way.
GUIDs don't contain your name or email themselves, but wait...
http://www.computerbytesman.com/privacy/wmp8dvd.h
"However, if a person signs up for the Windows Media newsletter, their email address will be associated with their WindowsMedia.com cookie."
It gets better.
"Also when subscribing to the Windows Media newsletter, I was encouraged by an email message from the Microsoft newsletter department to create a Passport account based on my email address. In theory, yet more personal information from Passport could be matched with what DVD movies I have watched."
If you are curious, the other shoe dropping will sound like this:
MS "Passport" registration (which is required for customer support) also collects GUIDs directly.
-David
We're on the road to Tycho.
And every time tracking is brought up re the TIVO device we get hundreds of "I like the fact that they're tracking me" posts completely apologising for a Linux based product that is easily if not more evil than WMP, Real or Winamp. This type of two faced philosophy reduces this site to almost 100% noise.
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
Windows: This is where you will go today, and this is what you will listen to on the way there.
FreeBSD for the impatient.
The last media player that microsoft did that was a "real" mediaplayer was 6.4... since then (7.0+) it's BLOATED, SLOW, the skin system truely feels like molasse, and heck, even in my PDA I installed another mpeg player and divx player because I couldn't stand media player...
It's too bad now, we don't have the choice of extra features without going to uninstall stuff (which you should be able to choose if you want them installed in the first place). But that's how MS seems to be doing their things since a few years... Do a great product, basic funtionnality, add some meat, fix the bugs, see it taking off, and finally, add a LOT of eyecandy/useless stuff, bloat the thing, make it take 4x the amount of memory, and finally, like almost all succesful net-related programs, add spyware.
At least you can still use media player 6.4 for everything on the net right now, I hope it stays like that for a while... it should.. since the basics is "playing back a movie/audio with a codec", whatever you add around it, the basics still remains the same (unless they move all the Digital right management out of the codecs if it's not already the case).
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Check out a different comment that I posted. This is actually exactly what I was advocating. Use winamp (you can turn off the monitoring) and other programs. And for the most part I don't use their products, I just find it terribly annoying that a lot of their products keep trying to steal preference for opening things. The OS's despite all their flaws work (most of the time) and let me play games.
Microsoft's response to the issue, mentioned above, lets it slip that Windows Media Player tries to connect to windowsmedia.com:
So it appears that completely disabling cookies is not the only way to stop Windows Media Player from phoning home. You could also add windowsmedia.com to your HOSTS file or to ad-blocking software like Internet Junkbuster.
It's a trivial fix, really. Windows Media Player records the list in a file. Just make the file read-only! Problem solved.
Here's the file name for Windows XP:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Media Index\wmplibrary_v_0_12.db
Here's the file name for Windows ME:
c:\Windows\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Media Index\wmplibrary_v_0_12.db
Here's the file name for Windows 98:
c:\Windows\wmplibrary_v_0_12.db
The easiest way to find the file is to search your disk for "wmplibrary". Then right-click up the properties for that file and make it read-only.
This spying behavior has been around for a long time. I noticed it a year or so ago, and made the log file read-only. It's been working fine ever since, without writing a log.
You can see the log in the Windows Media Player by pressing the "Media Library" button and opening up the outlines. Just make sure to clear out the log first, before you make it read-only. When you delete an item from the log, it goes into "deleted items" folder. So make sure you finally clear out the "deleted items" section of the log.
I found the log file by using Igor Arsenin's "taskinfo" utility, that lets you see all the files any process has open. Taskinfo is a great tool for figuring out what logs any Windows programs are keeping. Solid Russian engineering. Use it to spy on the spyware!
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
You laugh now but soon, all your popups will be for Jergens, Vasoline and inflatable girlfriends.
Hell, whatever it takes to replace those damn X10 popups, sounds good to me.
-jdm