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Socket-A Chipset Roundup

EconolineCrush writes: "The Tech Report has a review up of VIA's new KT333 Socket A chipset. Though it's really a review of the KT333, a total of seven different chipsets from VIA, SiS, AMD, and NVIDIA are compared to determine the uniprocessor Socket A performance king. This is definitely worth checking out if you're in the market for an AMD platform, or are curious to see how your current chipset stacks up against the latest and greatest."

144 comments

  1. Stability, or performance? by clockwork18 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps they should be reviewing the total stability of any given solution. I for one know that I used to have an Iwill board based on the ALi MaGIK chipset, and it was a hell of a lot more stable than my current KT266A.

    1. Re:Stability, or performance? by syzxys · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree completely about VIA's stability problems. Out of all the computers I've had based on VIA chipsets (about 4 or so), the only one with a decent amount of stability was the ASUS A7M266. Except for that one oddball stable board, it's been a horror story of:

      Personally, I'm terrified of VIA chipsets at this point. I like the AMD 760MP much better. :-)


      ---
      Windows 2000/XP stable? safe? secure? 5 lines of simple C code say otherwise!
    2. Re:Stability, or performance? by reaper20 · · Score: 2

      Agreed ... after all they problems I had with USB on the KT266 (non-A)boards, I'll glady ignore anything by VIA.

    3. Re:Stability, or performance? by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 2

      You're kidding right? I run windows xp of all things on an Asus A7V266E board and its rock solid.

    4. Re:Stability, or performance? by Ogrez · · Score: 1

      If your running pc133 ram thats cas3... buy better ram.. Anyt decent ram your going to buy is to be cas 2 or 2.5... But dont buy ram on sale at frys electronics and expect miracles...

      --


      Fire in the hands of the village idiot is no tool, but a weapon of mass destruction
    5. Re:Stability, or performance? by beanball75 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, considering the people currently writing reviews are using reference designs, I think full scale stability testing is premature.

    6. Re:Stability, or performance? by Stormie · · Score: 2

      Perhaps they should be reviewing the total stability of any given solution.

      Well, they commented on instability where they encountered it. One of the tested motherboards they had to reduce the memory timings to make it stable. The others were stable throughout their benchmarking.

      I for one know that I used to have an Iwill board based on the ALi MaGIK chipset, and it was a hell of a lot more stable than my current KT266A.

      There's more to a motherboard than just the chipset. I have an Epox 8KHA+, which has a KT266A, and it's the first PC I've ever owned that doesn't suffer from random lockups when hammering the AGP bus. So I infer that your problem was, in fact, caused by something other than the KT266A chipset.

    7. Re:Stability, or performance? by clockwork18 · · Score: 1

      I will totally agree with you on the fact that there's more to a motherboard than just the chipset. As an OEM, however, I have to tell you that we had to be very picky about what we built systems with. We would begin by using a sampling of motherboards, and then we would stick with the one with the fewest problems. Many of the boards would have a tough time just getting through the setup for whatever OS was put on it. Quality power supply, quality cooling, and quality RAM sometimes just aren't enough to get a motherboard ROCK SOLID. The only ones, as I said before, that performed PERFECTLY were the ALi Magik chipset boards.
      --

    8. Re:Stability, or performance? by The+Man · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've yet to see a crash on my AMD760 ASUS board. It's middle of the pack in performance (read: more than you'll ever need) and rock solid. VIA has a bad rep, no doubt, but this box just works. Maybe you're running a microsoft OS? Or using lots of 3rd-party binary-only drivers including one that's known to trigger AGP-related crashes? My system is Microsoft, nvidia, and binary-only-driver free; it seems to help a lot.

    9. Re:Stability, or performance? by filtersweep · · Score: 1

      The ASUS A7M266 uses an AMD 761 chipset (not a Via chipset)- which is WHY this mobo works well... there is a Via southbridge, but it is a non-issue in win xp.

      --


      Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
    10. Re:Stability, or performance? by syzxys · · Score: 1

      You're right, it *does* have the AMD northbridge. My bad. I just remembered that it was the only system I built with VIA components in it which actually worked. :-)

      ---
      NEW! Crash Windows NT/2000/XP from any account using only printf!
    11. Re:Stability, or performance? by BrookHarty · · Score: 2

      The A7V266E is a damn good board, everytime it crashed it was an Nvidia driver BSOD with conflicts with DirectX. Really happy after I found the beta bios drivers on the germany asus ftp site. :) ME lub the google search.

    12. Re:Stability, or performance? by DeMorganLaw · · Score: 1

      I have a MB based of the ALI Magik1 chipset with a Duron 750 and PC2100 Cas 2.5 DDR Ram. As far as I know the Duron itself will not permit being run with anything other than a 100 mhz bus, (or 200mhz bus in the case of DDR Ram). I would recommend buying a 133mhz/266mhz rated Athlon CPU if you really want that 133mhz ram speed.

    13. Re:Stability, or performance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cant get CAS 2.5 PC133 RAM.

    14. Re:Stability, or performance? by LM741N · · Score: 1

      Thanks for pointing this out. I was thinking that maybe I should dump my old Iwill board, but its been running FreeBSD and has done a few "make worlds" with absolutely no problems.

    15. Re:Stability, or performance? by syzxys · · Score: 1

      As far as I know the Duron itself will not permit being run with anything other than a 100 mhz bus,

      That's true. However, this particular board is an ABIT KT7A, which has an option to run the RAM bus at host clock + PCI clock, = 133 MHz. It works fine with a single 128MB PC133 DIMM (NEC, not sure of CAS rating, it's "virtual channel memory" -- anyone else remember virtual channel memory? :-), also with dual 256MB PC133 DIMM's (CAS 2, Crucial), but with a 512MB CAS3 DIMM (also Crucial), it won't post with 133MHz RAM clock. With 100 MHz RAM clock, it works just fine (of course). Oh well, that's my worst system anyway, so who cares. Thanks for your comments though.


      ---
      Windows 2000/XP stable? safe? secure? 5 lines of simple C code say otherwise!
    16. Re:Stability, or performance? by mikefoley · · Score: 1

      I shorted the L1 bridges on my 800MHz Duron. It's on my KT7A-Raid running at 933MHz. I'm using CAS 2 Crucial PC133 memory. Runs nice and stable and fairly fast. I need to dump the Matrox G400 tho. Probably go with a GF2 to hold me over till the next motherboard. Then the KT7A-RAID will become my server.

      --
      What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
    17. Re:Stability, or performance? by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      random lockups with the GeForce2

      Checked your AGP driving values?

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    18. Re:Stability, or performance? by ncc74656 · · Score: 2
      FWIW, I've had fairly decent luck with VIA chipsets. They had a problem for a while with their IDE drivers that would keep my tape drive from working, but sticking with the Microsoft-supplied drivers worked well enough until VIA could get its act together. Other than that, I've run everything AMD from the K6 to the Athlon on various VIA chipsets, and I've worked with a few Intel-processor systems with VIA chipsets. Nothing's acted squirelly on me.

      That said, the machine I'm typing on now uses a "hybrid" AMD 761/VIA 686B chipset, and it's run Win2K flawlessly. I built a couple of Athlon XP boxen for work that use the nVidia nForce 420D chipset; the idea of an integrated-everything chipset where the integrated stuff doesn't suck was appealing. One runs Win2K; the other runs Linux From Scratch. The home server is a dual P!!! on one of Intel's 440BX server boards; it works well enough, but about the only real problem I've had with anybody's chipset has been with the IDE controller in some of Intel's 430?X chipsets...hook up a hard drive as primary master and a CD-ROM as secondary master, and it might not see the CD-ROM under Win9x. Figure that one out.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    19. Re:Stability, or performance? by cobar · · Score: 2

      >the only real problem I've had with anybody's >chipset has been with the IDE controller in some of >Intel's 430?X chipsets...hook up a hard drive as >primary master and a CD-ROM as secondary master, >and it might not see the CD-ROM under Win9x. Figure >that one out.

      Probably a cdrom issue. Some older cdroms (= 6x ?) seem to need the controller in the hard drive to control the bus. Try using a newer drive and I bet it'll work.

    20. Re:Stability, or performance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I have a Microstar (MSI) VIA KT133 board. With a GeForce2. Oh, and an SB Live! It runs Linux, WinME, and AtheOS. I have had zero problems with Linux and AtheOS, and although I have had random lockups with WinME, I blame the OS more than the hardware. Certainly at least until I try Win2k on there instead.

      I'd be happy to use a Via chipset in the future.

    21. Re:Stability, or performance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen that issue with Win95 on a 440BX too. It would work during install, not work during the "first run" configuration, and then (Sometimes) work again on reboot. Extremly frustrating.

    22. Re:Stability, or performance? by syzxys · · Score: 1

      Sure, I tried pretty much every value from 0xB0 to 0xFF in steps of four over a period of about two weeks. I could never figure out what *exactly* the AGP driving value meant, though (need to bust out the reference books), so maybe the right answer was somewhere outside that range. It's a moot issue at this point though, since that motherboard (KT7A-RAID) is dead (oops).

      I always wonder if it was some kind of Freudian slip when I killed that motherboard. :-)

      ---
      Crash Windows XP with just a simple printf!
    23. Re:Stability, or performance? by servanya · · Score: 1

      ""hybrid" AMD 761/VIA 686B chipset"

      Me too: the epox board. I have the raid model, and it has been wonderful - until I installed XP. Crazy errors, blue screens. I tried everything I could think of (replacing mobo, HD, etc) but it still wouldn't work. I ended up having to disable the onboard RAID, and it has been super stable ever since. Go figure. If I wasn't using a SCSI controller, I'd be kinda pissed. I wrote epox and asked about this "known issue" and they decided not to respond.

    24. Re:Stability, or performance? by STUP0RUSER · · Score: 1

      The whole issue of stability is kinda stupid. If a mobo doesn't have some major bug (I remember a couple intel chipsets that caused major problems with the third ram slot back when pc100 was prominen) then you are probably going to have far more crashes from power fluxuations/failures, bad ram, or bad drivers. It's pretty rare that the mobo causes the crash.

      Anyway, last September I got a Abit K7-Raid and I've been VERY happy with it. It can handle up to 8 IDE drives, 4 DDR slots (only 2 work with non-ecc though...), and it has 5 PCI slots. No audio though.

      The Abit KG7 series boards also have an awesome bios. I overclocked my Tbird 1400 to 1533 without evening opening the case--it's all in the Bios! I also have 3 HDs in it with 3 different OS's on them (RH7.2, win98, and a flavor-o-the-week) and NO LILO OR GRUB!!! Each HD has a normal boot partition for it's respective OS and if I want to boot to a different one, I just have to hit delete to enter the bios at reboot and respecify which HD to boot from. I find that having my bios control which drive to boot from is as easy and more reliable than lilo or grub because each OS gets a complete boot partition to itself. There is a drawback in that you need a seperate HD for each OS, but with the KG7-Raid, you can fit up to 8 IDE drive in there and boot from any of them.

    25. Re:Stability, or performance? by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Sure, I tried pretty much every value from 0xB0 to 0xFF in steps of four.

      I've hear it best ends with A. So by checking things ending with 0 4 8 and C you've missed it.

      Try DA or EA I think.

      You killed a KT7A-R!?!? Anything nonobvious (since I have one)?

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    26. Re:Stability, or performance? by syzxys · · Score: 1

      Try DA or EA I think.

      Thanks for the tip.

      You killed a KT7A-R!?!? Anything nonobvious (since I have one)?

      Nothing "non-obvious," just don't try to put in DIMM's while drunk and talking on the phone. :-)

      ---
      Windows 2000/XP stable? safe? secure? 5 lines of simple C code say otherwise!
  2. URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovered! by Flarners · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    I just got this in my mail, and I thought I should pass it on to my friends on Slashdot (since I know a lot of you use Mozilla :-).

    IMPORTANT: There is a huge security hole in all Mozilla builds that was just discovered yesterday. By inserting a properly-constructed URL into an XHTML source file with MIME type application/xml+xhtml, arbitrary code can be run as the client user on his machine. This hole exploits a known bug in Mozilla's xml parser, that doesn't properly handle certain character entities (e.g. &#nnn;). If the decimal number inside the character entity is greater than 65535 (the maximum legal Unicode value), a buffer overflow is triggered and arbitrary machine code can be inserted into the running process.

    Luckily though, the fix is small, simple, and can be automatically downloaded over the Internet, thanks to Mozilla's XPI installation facilities. This patch is available from the Browser Security page at data.com. Simply click the link, and after a short verification the fix will install itself. Please install their patch ASAP, before malicious hackers wipe Mozilla off the web!

    Isn't open-source grand? Had this been an Internet Explorer exploit, we wouldn't even know of its existence until about a month after sKr1p7 k1dd1eZ started hacking with it. I applaud the Mozilla team for promptly discovering and disclosing this bug, and the fine folks at data.com for hosting the fix.

    --
    "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for 'entrepeneur'." -George W. Bush
  3. Mcnot mcthe mcfirst mcpost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    McI mclike mcto mctroll! mctime mcfor mcrandom mctext mcfrom mcthe mcinternet!


    Samstag, 21. Februar 1998
    Doppelerfolg der Norweger im Slalom
    Mit einem doppelten Erfolg der Norweger ging der
    letzte alpine Wettbewerb, der Slalom der Männer, zu
    Ende. Der erst 22jährige Hans- Petter Buraas, der noch nie ein Weltcuprennen gewann, in diesem Winter aber schon
    dreimal auf dem Podest stand, siegte mit 1,33 Sekunden
    Vorsprung auf seinen 31jährigen Teamkollegen Ole
    Kristian Furuseth. Der Österrreicher Thomas Sykora, der
    nach dem ersten Durchgang noch 22 Hundertstel vor Buraas
    geführt hatte, sicherte sich die Bronzemedaille, knapp
    vor Weltmeister Tom Stiansen, einem weiteren Norweger.
    Die Schweizer kamen nicht in den Medaillenbereich. Der
    Walliser Didier Plaschy war als Zwölfter und mit 2,72
    Sekunden Rückstand der beste des gestarteten Quartetts.
    Paul Accola und Michael von Grünigen erreichten die Ränge 18 und 19, Marco Casanova war bereits im ersten
    Lauf ausgeschieden.
    Tomba verzichtete auf den zweiten Slalomlauf
    Alberto Tomba, der den ersten Lauf des Slaloms auf dem
    enttäuschenden 17. Platz beendet hat, verzichtete auf
    die Teilnahme im zweiten Durchgang. Der im Riesenslalom
    gestürzte Italiener fuhr mit einer schmerzstillenden
    Spritze.
    Deutsche Biathlon-Staffel verteidigt den Titel
    erfolgreich
    Deutschlands Biathleten haben ihren Staffel-Titel
    erfolgreich verteidigt und sich damit zum dritten Mal in
    Folge bei Olympia durchgesetzt. Das Quartett Ricco Gross,
    Peter Sendel, Sven Fischer und Frank Luck siegte mit 20
    Sekunden Vorsprung auf Norwegen und 43 Sekunden vor
    Russland.
    Österreicher und Norweger liegen im Slalom
    voran
    Die Österreicher und die Norweger haben den
    ersten Lauf des Männer-Slaloms dominiert. Der
    Österreicher Thomas Sykora führt vor den Norwegern
    Hans-Petter Buraas und Ole Kristian Furuseth sowie seinem
    Landsmann Thomas Stangassinger, dem Olympiasieger von
    Lillehammer. Fünfter ist Weltmeister Tom Stiansen, ein
    weiterer Norweger. Diese fünf Fahrer liegen innerhalb
    von 0,64 Sekunden. Von den Schweizern konnte nur Didier
    Plaschy als 13. mit 1,61 Sekunden Rückstand einigermassen mithalten. Michael von Grünigen und Paul
    Accola liegen deutlich über 2 Sekunden zurück. Marco
    Casanova schied aus. Mitfavorit Alberto Tomba klassierte
    sich nicht unter den ersten 15. Als die Nummern 20 und
    21, Kombinations-Olympiasieger Mario Reiter und der
    Deutsche Markus Eberle, auf der Strecke waren, wurde die
    Gegend von Shigakogen von einem Erdbeben erschüttert.
    Reiter sagte hernach, er habe die Erschütterungen
    während der Fahrt gespürt. Diese seien aber nicht an
    seinem Ausscheiden schuld gewesen.
    Koss in IOK-Athletenkommission
    Bei einer Stimmbeteiligung von 58,35% oder 1366 der
    an den Olympischen Winterspielen akkreditierten 2341
    Sportlerinnen und Sportler sind die Langläufer Manuela
    de Centa (It) und Wladimir Smirnow (Kas) sowie der
    Eisschnelläufer Johann Olav Koss (No) in die
    Athletenkommission des IOK gewählt worden. An den
    Sommerspielen 1996 in Atlanta waren sieben Vertreter
    gewählt worden. Neun Mitglieder kann der IOK-Präsident
    bezeichnen.
    Osakas Vorbereitung
    Osaka sieht sich durch den Erfolg der Winterspiele in
    Nagano in seiner Kandidatur für die Sommerspiele 2008
    gestärkt. Die gut 500 km westlich von Tokio gelegene
    Hafenstadt betreibt in Nagano bereits umfangreiche
    Werbung. "Es sind noch drei Jahre bis zur Vergabe.
    Aber der Erfolg von Nagano hat für uns grosses Gewicht", sagte Akihiko Shimomura, Präsident des
    Bewerbungskomitees von Osaka.
    Freitag, 20. Februar 1998
    Dählie
    Der siebenfache Langlauf-Olympiasieger Björn Dählie ist
    in seiner wegen "Geschlechtsdiskriminierung"
    angezeigt worden. Dählie hatte von Nagano aus im Fernsehen seinen eigenen Lauf in der Staffel kritisiert
    und dabei einen tolpatschig wirkenden Fehler als
    "mädchenhaft" bezeichnet. Darauf wurde Dählie
    von einer Frau verzeigt. Wenn ein Sportidol derart die
    Frauen verhöhne, müsse dies, gebüsst werden, sagte die
    Frau. Dählie dazu: "Ich bedaure meine Äusserung.
    Sie war auch sachlich falsch. Ich habe bei dem Fehler
    wohl eher wie eine Kuh ausgesehen."
    Illustres Trio
    Die Langlauf-Stars Manuela de Centa (It) und Wladimir
    Smirnow (Kas) sowie der Eisschnelläufer Johan-Olav Koss
    (No) sind in die Athletenkommission des IOC gewählt
    worden. Von den 2341 Aktiven bei den Winterspielen hatten
    sich 1366 (58,35 Prozent) an der Wahl beteiligt. Neben
    dem illustren Trio gehören noch sieben Aktive, die vor
    zwei Jahren bei den Sommerspielen in Atlanta gewählt
    worden waren, zur Kommission.
    Kasse
    Zu den Siegern in Nagano zählen auch die sieben
    beteiligten internationalen Sportverbände. Sie kassieren
    mehr als doppelt soviel wie 1994 in Lillehammer. Spitzenreiter sind der Ski- , der Eishockey- und der
    Eislaufverband mit je 10,8 Millionen Dollar. Bob,
    Schlitteln, Biathlon und Curling werden vom IOC mit
    jeweils 4,85 Millionen abgefunden. In Lillehammer hatte
    das IOC an die Verbände "nur" insgesamt 20
    Millionen Dollar ausgeschüttet.
    Osaka
    Osaka sieht sich durch den Erfolg der Winterspiele in
    Nagano in seiner Kandidatur für die Sommerspiele 2008
    gestärkt. Die gut 500 km westlich von Tokio gelegene
    Hafenstadt betreibt in Nagano bereits umfangreiche
    Werbung. "Es sind noch drei Jahre bis zur Vergabe.
    Aber der Erfolg von Nagano hat für uns grosses Gewicht", sagte Akihiko Shimomura, Präsident des
    Bewerbungskomitees von Osaka.
    Keine Vermutungen auf Blutdoping
    Im Langlauf sind in Hakuba vor den Rennen bisher bei je
    20 Prozent der Teilnehmer Blutkontrollen auf die
    Hämoglobinwerte durchgeführt worden. Laut Auskunft von
    Dr. Peter Jenoure, der die Tests vornahm, traten keine
    überhöhten Werte auf. Es besteht auch kein Anlass zu
    Vermutungen auf Blutdoping. Die Blutkontrollen wurden im
    Winter 1996/97 eingeführt und in dieser Saison in einem
    Standardsystem vorgenommen. Die von den Medizinern als
    kritische Werte erachteten 18,5 Milligramm Hämoglobin
    pro Deziliter Blut bei den Männern und 16,5 Milligramm
    bei den Frauen wurden in Hakuba nie erreicht.
    Bemerkenswert ist allerdings, dass in den Jahren 1988 bis
    1996 steigende Werte beobachtet wurden. Seit der Vornahme
    regelmässiger Kontrollen stabilisierten sich die Werte
    auf einem tieferen Niveau, was möglicherweise auch auf
    die zusehends intensivere ärztliche Betreuung der
    Langläufer zurückzuführen ist.
    Cuendet trat zurück
    Der Schweizer Nordisch-Kombinierer Jean-Yves Cuendet hat
    nach dem olympischen Mannschaftswettkampf, an seinem
    heutigen 28. Geburtstag, den Rücktritt bekanntgegeben.
    Cuendet erreichte in Nagano den 17. Platz im Einzel und
    den 7. mit der Mannschaft. Die grössten Erfolge des
    Waadtländers waren die Bronzemedaillen- Gewinne mit der
    Mannschaft an den Olympischen Spielen 1994 in Lillehammer
    und an den Weltmeisterschaften 1995 in Thunder Bay (Ka).
    TV-Enttäuschung
    Für das US-TV-Network CBS wird Olympia nicht zum
    erhofften Hit. Nach dem vorzeitigen Scheitern des
    US-Teams in den Viertelfinals des Eishockey-Turniers konnte selbst die Kür beim Quoten-Hit Eiskunstlaufen der
    Frauen am Freitag niedrige Durchschnittszahlen nicht mehr
    verhindern. CBS wird mit seinen teilweise kritisierten
    Übertragungen aus Nagano voraussichtlich die niedrigsten
    Einschaltquoten bei Olympischen Winterspielen seit 1968
    in Grenoble aufweisen. Statt der erhofften 19,5 Prozent
    aller US-Haushalte schaffte CBS bisher im Durchschnitt
    nur 16,4 Prozent und muss deshalb seinen Werbepartnern
    sogenannte Wiedergutmachungs-Spots schenken. "Den
    Spielen fehlt Persönlichkeit und Wärme, und das Wetter
    ist die grösste Story", erklärte CBS-Chefregisseur
    Rick Gentile. Trotzdem ist der Gewinn in Höhe von 40
    Millionen Dollar nicht gefährdet. Heimlicher Sieger des
    CBS-Problems ist der kanadische TV-Sender CBC. Er wird
    nach Angaben eines Pressesprechers "gegenwärtig von
    mehr US-Bürgern gesehen als jemals zuvor".
    Premiere
    Die Bronze, die Zali Steggall im Frauenslalom gewann,
    bedeutet eine Premiere: Es ist die erste Medaille bei
    Winterspielen für Australien.
    Zweiter Fall
    Nach Snowboard-Olympiasieger Ross Rebagliati (Ka) hat
    es in Nagano einen weiteren Marihuana-Fall gegeben. Da
    die positive Probe Rebagliatis gemäss Entscheid des
    internationalen Sportgerichtshofes (CAS) ohne
    Konsequenzen bleibt, wurde nun im zweiten Fall der Name
    des Athleten nicht bekanntgegeben. Erstmals tagte auch
    die von IOK-Präsident Samaranch eingesetzte
    Arbeitsgruppe für Vorschläge zur Verbannung des
    Marihuana aus dem Sport. Alexandre De Merode, der
    Vorsitzende der medizinischen Kommission, ist sich
    sicher, dass bei künftigen Olympischen Spielen der
    Konsum von Marihuana geahndet wird - "sofern sie
    vernünftig und juristisch belegbar sind".
    Letzter Auftritt
    Das Eishockeyturnier ging für den Kanadier Joe
    Sakic, den Grösstverdiener dieser Saison (17 Millionen
    Dollar bei Colorado), vorzeitig zu Ende: Er verrenkte
    sich gegen Kasachstan (4:1) das rechte Knie.
    Olympia-AHV
    Italiens Medaillengewinner von Nagano kommen in den
    Genuss einer Art AHV. Neben den Prämien für eine
    Goldmedaille (50 000 Franken, 32 000 Franken für Silber,
    20 000 für Bronze) wird die doppelte Summe zusätzlich
    in eine Altersversicherung einbezahlt, die ab dem 45.
    Altersjahr zum Tragen kommt und dem Sportler einen
    Zustupf zu seinem Lebensunterhalt gewährt.
    Heiliger Geist
    Papst Johannes Paul II. glaubt offenbar an den guten
    Geist von Olympia. Er forderte die reichen Staaten auf,
    sich an den Winterspielen ein Beispiel zu nehmen: "So wie die Aktiven im Ziel auf die Nachzügler
    warten und sie empfangen, so sollten auch die reichen
    Länder den ärmeren Staaten helfen und so sozialen Fortschritt gewährleisten."
    Flower-Power
    Ein "Blumen-Krieg" zwischen Japans
    Olympialieferanten und Hollands Floristen bahnt sich an.
    Beim Eisschnellauf-"Triple" der holländischen
    10 000-m- Medaillengewinner waren zahlreiche TV-Zuschauer
    im "Blumenland" Holland entsetzt über die bei
    der Siegerehrung vergebenen Sträusse. Ein Blumenzwiebelhändler reagierte und bot den
    Olympiaveranstaltern die kostenlose Lieferung von
    Bouquets an. Die Nagano-Bosse lehnten ab.
    Donnerstag, 19. Februar 1998
    Schonung für Katja Seizinger
    Doppelolympiasiegerin Katja Seizinger verzichtete
    nach ihren Erfolgen in der Abfahrt und in der Kombination
    auf einen Start im Spezialslalom, der in der Nacht auf heute Donnerstag angesetzt war. "Sie braucht auch
    mal einen Tag zum Ausspannen", sagte der deutsche
    Frauen-Cheftrainer Wolfgang Maier.
    Verstärkung für Marcel Rohner
    Nach Reto Götschis Ausscheiden im Selektionsrennen
    gegen Christian Reich einigten sich die Schweizer
    Bob-Delegationsleitung und die Athleten darauf, Marcel Rohners Vierer zu verstärken. Götschis Nummer 4, Beat
    Seitz, nahm schon im Training vom Mittwoch anstelle von
    Thomas Schreiber hinter Rohner Platz.
    Letzte Chance für Jelena Välbe
    Im 30-km-Lauf der Frauen in freier Technik bietet
    sich Jelena Välbe am Freitag die letzte Gelegenheit,
    olympisches Einzel-Gold zu gewinnen. Die Russin wird Ende
    Saison ihre Karriere beenden. Sie hat zwar acht WM-Titel
    vorzuweisen, vier alleine von den Titelkämpfen 1997 in
    Trondheim (No). Olympiasiegerin wurde sie aber bislang
    erst mit der Staffel, in Albertville und Lillehammer. In
    olympischen Einzelrennen blieb es bei vier dritten
    Plätzen 1992. In Hakuba wurde Välbe über 15 km nur 17.
    und vierte Russin und wurde damit für das
    Verfolgungsstartrennen gar nicht mehr aufgeboten.
    Vorgeschlafen. Erneute Festivitäten im
    Flughafen Zürich-Kloten: Gestern abend kehrten die
    Schweizer Curler, welche an den Olympischen Spielen in
    Nagano Gold gewannen, zusammen mit dem
    Silbermedaillengewinner im Super-G, Didier Cuche, heim.
    Skip Patrick Hürlimann sagte, in Anbetracht der
    Feierlichkeiten, welche heute in Zermatt und danach in
    Biel und Lausanne weitergehen, habe man bereits im
    Flugzeug vorgeschlafen.
    Verschwunden. Als Startläufer der Staffel
    verfügte Jeremias Wigger nicht über seine schnellsten
    Klassisch-Rennskis. Dieses vier Jahre alte Paar ist verschwunden, seit Teamarzt Dr. Beat Villiger vor einigen
    Tagen statt Wiggers Paar jenes von Alois Stadlober (Ö)
    in den Schweizer Wachscontainer zurückbrachte.
    Verärgert. Heftig reagierte Weissrusslands
    Präsident Alexander Lukaschenko auf den Abbruch des
    Biathlon-Rennens. In einem Interview sagte der
    verärgerte Staatschef: "Kaum erscheint der Name
    eines weissrussischen Athleten ganz oben, wird der
    Wettbewerb von der internationalen Mafia
    abgebrochen." Beim Abbruch des 10-km-Rennens wegen
    heftiger Schneefälle hatte der Weissrusse Alexander
    Popow geführt.
    Spekulationen um Rebagliati
    Unter Jubel - und Zweifel - ist der kanadische Snowboard-
    Olympiasieger Ross Rebagliati in Whistler empfangen
    worden. Die Zweifel schürt ein Bericht des Dopingkontroll-Instituts in Montreal an die Medizinische
    Kommission des IOK, wonach Rebagliati entgegen seiner
    Aussage Marihuana direkt konsumiert haben soll. Die
    Einschätzung basiert auf Daten, die das kanadische
    Institut bei einer Kontrolle Rebagliatis Ende 1996 und
    Anfang 1997 genommen hat. Ein Vergleich mit den in Nagano
    genommenen Werten ergebe, dass Rebagliatis Aussagen - er
    habe Marihuana zum letzten Mal im April 1997 konsumiert -
    nicht stimmen könnten. In Kanada kann der Besitz von
    Marihuana mit bis zu fünf Jahren Gefängnis bestraft
    werden. Bereits haben sich aber Regierungsmitglieder des
    Themas der Legalisierung angenommen. Und die Polizei will
    mit Rebagliati bezüglich Drogen-Prävention ein
    Gespräch führen. Der Olympiasieger erklärte, er wolle
    sich dafür einsetzen, dass der Cannabis-Konsum
    entkriminalisiert werde.
    Chabloz mit Herzbeschwerden
    Nach dem Sieg über 20 km erreichten die norwegischen
    Biathleten im 10-km-Sprint mit Ole Einar Björndalen und
    Frode Andresen sogar einen Doppelsieg. Für den Schweizer
    Jean-Marc Chabloz endete das Rennen bereits nach gut
    einem halben Kilometer. Am Vorabend bekundete Chabloz
    Herzrhythmusstörungen und liess sich vom deutschen
    Teamarzt untersuchen. Dieser stellte jedoch keine
    Probleme fest. Nach einer weiteren Untersuchung erhielt
    Chabloz die Starterlaubnis. Bereits nach 600 m brach der
    30jährige den Wettkampf jedoch ab. "Bereits im
    Januar hatte ich einmal Beschwerden. Aber ein EKG hat
    nichts zutage gebracht", sagte Chabloz.
    Delegationschef Georg Hähnel erfuhr erst vor Rennbeginn
    von den Problemen. (Si.)
    Mittwoch, 18. Februar 1998
    Verzicht
    Katja Seizinger hat sich nach ihren Siegen in der
    Abfahrt und in der Kombination dazu entschlossen, auf
    einen Start im olympischen Slalom vom Donnerstag (1. Lauf: 01.30 MEZ/2. Lauf: 05.00 Uhr MEZ), zu verzichten.
    "Es hat keinen Sinn, wenn wir sie jetzt da
    reinhetzen. Sie braucht auch mal einen Tag zum Ausspannen", sagte der deutsche Frauen-Cheftrainer
    Wolfgang Maier.
    Werben für Sion 2006
    Ausser Ottavio Cinquanta (It), dem Vorsitzenden des
    Eislauf- Weltverbandes, kamen alle Präsidenten sowie die
    Generalsekretäre der sieben olympischen Wintersportverbände zum Raclette-Abend des
    Kandidaturkomitees Sion-Switzerland 2006 ins "House
    of Switzerland". Die Walliser nutzen in Nagano jede Gelegenheit, um bei einflussreichen Persönlichkeiten
    für "ihre Spiele" zu werben. Jean-Daniel
    Mudry, Direktor der Walliser Kandidatur, zeigte sich von
    den Hallenbauten in Nagano beeindruckt, erklärte aber:
    "Wir wollen bei uns ein vernünftiges Konzept, das
    eine spätere Nutzung der Anlagen garantiert."
    Ärger für Samaranch
    IOK-Präsident Juan Antonio Samaranch hat wegen eines
    Interviews bei CBS-Chef Michael Jordan interveniert. Bob
    Simon, Reporter des amerikanischen Senders, hatte bei
    einem Gespräch mit Samaranch mehr über dessen
    Vergangenheit im Spanien Francos wissen wollen, als dem
    IOK-Präsidenten lieb war. Trotz des Protests will CBS
    das Interview am 22. Februar ausstrahlen. Dann endet die
    Zusammenarbeit mit dem IOK, das bis mindestens 2008 die
    TV-Rechte an NBC verkauft hat.

    1. Re:Mcnot mcthe mcfirst mcpost by Mayor+McPenisman · · Score: -1

      does this have anything to do with mayor McPenisman?

      I like McNuggets.

      Please try to keep posts on topic.

      Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about

      --
      [[Ay fukkand lyke ane furious Fornicatour]]
  4. More on this elite chipset... by arnoroefs2000 · · Score: 4, Informative


    Tom's Hardware has a good article up.

    "A total of 26 various benchmark tests clearly shows that the VIA KT333 chipset the best and most capable chipset for AMD CPUs. With only a few exceptions, not even the Nvidia nForce with its expensive dual-channel technology (DDR266) can put up a real fight against the newcomer KT333. With the launch of the KT333, the KT266A will become a thing of the past - you simply won't want to miss out on all the new features such as ATA/133, USB 2.0 or DDR333 support."

    So does Anandtech: here.

    "When the KT266A was launched it completely blew us away; the performance of the chipset was spectacular and it was clear that it would quickly become a top pick for all Athlon owners. The KT333 doesn't have nearly as great of an impact but the reasons behind that are understandable; both new features supported by the chipset, DDR333 and Ultra ATA 133 aren't features that will result in tangible improvements in performance today. Instead the KT333 is more of a technology enabling platform for VIA. The chipset will not cost any more to manufacture than the KT266A and thus motherboards won't increase in price. While DDR333 SDRAM isn't officially available today (the specification isn't complete), when it is first made available it will carry a price premium over DDR266 SDRAM."

    1. Re:More on this elite chipset... by Ralph+Malph+Alpha · · Score: -1

      Hordes of Fighting Lords disagree with you, I just thought you should know that.

      --
      _________________
      EBAY SAFETY TIPZ!
    2. Re:More on this elite chipset... by Visigothe · · Score: 1

      One thing that puzzles me however... If the DDR333 spec isn't fully complete, what happens when it *is* complete and the chipset isn't 100% compatible ?

    3. Re:More on this elite chipset... by Merlin42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      RTFA - The spec for DDR333 devices is final. The spec for DDR333 DIMMS is undergoing validation.

      Kevin

  5. Chipsets by Egonis · · Score: 1

    I will be happy on the day that I don't get a motherboard which repeatedly powers down the system, randomly. (FYI: Yes, I tried Linux, WinME, and WinXP)

    The only chipset (recently) that works for me is the ALi Magik

    1. Re:Chipsets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      get an asus board with an intel chipset, then.

    2. Re:Chipsets by The+Man · · Score: 2
      I will be happy on the day that I don't get a motherboard which repeatedly powers down the system, randomly. (FYI: Yes, I tried Linux, WinME, and WinXP)

      The problem's not software, it's hardware. There's a line that goes back to the power supply called "power good" and if it's deasserted then your power supply will shut down. There are other possible reasons, like excess heat. Make sure your power supply is working perfectly and your case's internal cooling is adequate before you assume your mainboard is flaky. I've never observed my ASUS A7M266 have this kind of problem, nor on any other board unless the power supply was inadequate or flaky.

  6. Stick your Rhenquist in the socket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    and I'll briggs you until you reach total ecstacy.

  7. Re:URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Thank you for making us aware of that, it again proves the value of OSS and Slashdot.

    -Fred Marstansis

  8. Re:URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    This is not security focus, please post this elsewhere.

    Thank you.

    --DarkSkies

  9. More Reviews by brogdon · · Score: 3, Informative



    There's a bunch of other good reviews of the set in all its forms and splendor.


    Digit-Life
    HardOCP
    AnandTech
    AMDDb
    Via Hardware


    </karmawhoring>

    --


    This tagline is umop apisdn.
    1. Re:More Reviews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whoring acknowledged and accepted.

  10. 10th post. -1, nested by Ralph+Malph+Alpha · · Score: -1

    Lumberjacks do it loggy-style.

    --
    _________________
    EBAY SAFETY TIPZ!
  11. Oh my fucking shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
  12. Fucking the eye socket of CmdrTaco? by Serial+Troller · · Score: -1
    • 2002. Slashdot publishes 1,000,000th rumor passed off as actual story. The story generates 480 comments, 263 of which agree with the article, and 107 of which point out it's a rumor and are modded down as redundant. The remaining comments are all "first posts."
    • 2002. CmdrTaco married.
    • 2002. Slashdot parent corporation VA Research^W Linux^W Software stock worth 35 cents. Rumors that AOL, Microsoft, or even Jimmy the hobo who lives under the Longfellow Bridge may buy it.
    • 2003. VA Software bought by Microsoft for a cup of coffee and a donut. All Microsoft-critical articles mysteriously disappear from Slashdot. Bill Gates as Borg logo replaced with Bill Gates as God.
    • 2004. CmdrTaco loses virginity.
    • 2004. The WIPO Troll returns again, showering Slashdot in 45,000 copies of the same post: "Lick my crotch hairs." Slashdot, despite running on 18 redundant IIS/8.0 servers, buckles under the load. The term "Slashdotted" is replaced with "WIPO-Trolled."
    • 2004. Slashdot officially shut down. Millions of screaming, unwashed geeks invade Redmond campus and lynch Bill Gates.
    • 2005. Linus Torvalds and Anal Cox found dead along with six penguins, a tub of crisco and several used condoms.
    • 2005. CmdrTaco rumored to have had sex again.
    • 2006. CowboiKneel found dead in hotel room with 56 pizza boxes covering his bloated corpse. Three suffocated gay prostitutes are extracted from beneath his body as police remove it with a backhoe.
    • 2007. CmdrTaco actually has sex again.
    • 2007. BSD is still officially "dying." No word on when its demise will take place.
    • 2007. CmdrTaco starts new weblog to replace Slashdot, creatively named Dotslash. Remainder of Linux users flock to the site and immediate WIPO-Troll it out of existence.
    • 2008. CmdrTaco has sex with his wife for the first time.
    --

    STOP ME BEFORE I POST AGAIN!

  13. Re:URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Go for it suckers, install that trojan horse!

    I appluad Flarners for such a subtle and well-written troll.

  14. memory bandwidth by Ogrez · · Score: 1

    The article was ok, but the testers leave alot to be desired, it doesnt look like they paid much attention to bios settings, they said that they were stuck running the sis745 chipset at 2.5 cas latency. The sis chipsets come set at 2.5 default.. but you can change the setting in the bios depending on what kind of ram you put in. The fact that they diddnt bother changing a bios setting to show the potential of the board says something. While some may say that the cas should autoconfigure to spd.. its a simple setting to change. I have a ECS 735 that runs cas2 although I had to manually change it. If you spend the time to get to know your motherboard.. you can usually get all kinds of performance out of it.. Dont just plug it in and expect to beat the benchmarks.

    --


    Fire in the hands of the village idiot is no tool, but a weapon of mass destruction
    1. Re:memory bandwidth by thegrommit · · Score: 1

      They actually said their ECS board wouldn't run stably at CAS 2. In other words, YMMV.

    2. Re:memory bandwidth by Stormie · · Score: 2

      it doesnt look like they paid much attention to bios settings, they said that they were stuck running the sis745 chipset at 2.5 cas latency. The sis chipsets come set at 2.5 default.. but you can change the setting in the bios depending on what kind of ram you put in.

      Did you read the article or just skip to the conclusion? I quote from the middle of page 4:

      To keep things fair, we tested with the memory timings set as aggressively as possible on each motherboard, so long as the system was stable. Because we were using very high quality memory, using aggressive memory timings generally wasn't a problem. The one exception was the SiS 745, which simply refused to POST if we set the CAS latency to 2, regardless of whether the memory was running at 266MHz or 333MHz. We tried it with several different DDR333 DIMMs, and the ECS 745 board wouldn't POST at CAS 2 with any of them, even with the memory clock set to DDR266. So in the case of the 745 chipset, we had to test at CAS 2.5.
  15. Thank you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    Thanks for the heads up, man. I grabbed the patch, but I can't apply it just yet. (Glad I got it early, before the /. Effect took hold! It was a speedy download!) After this post I'll pull the cable and disconnect from the 'net until I get it all fixed.

    Thanks again! The "many eyeballs" analogy is still valid!

    --SC

  16. It's a real issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    Click the link in Mozilla to see just how wide this security hole really is.

    -F

  17. That's a Goatse.cx link there by WD · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    UUdecode that Link and it's goatse.cx
    joy

  18. Re:URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    What do you mean? The patch downloaded fine...?

    --SC

  19. The Government Sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    It sure do.

  20. Squiggly etch by Pussy+Is+Money · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Something that caught my attention in one of the photographs with this article is the funny squiggly PCB lines at the lower left in this image. Any hardware people who can enlighten me as to the function of these squiggly lines? Is this a timing device or some design artifact?

    --
    Pushin' 'n dealin', shovin' 'n stealin'
    1. Re:Squiggly etch by SexPig · · Score: 3, Informative

      They're to control timing so that instructions leaving certain areas of the CPU do not hit the bus before others. My friend who use to map PCB boards for a living calls them "speed bumps".

      --
      "...and generally behaved in a manner one can only describe as despicable." - February 27 2001, Michael Sims
    2. Re:Squiggly etch by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      I don't think it has anything to do with timing, because at 333 MHz the wavelength of signals is around 1 m.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    3. Re:Squiggly etch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're there to guarantee timing, so that one signal always arrives before/after another.

    4. Re:Squiggly etch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it really is about timing. Check out any PCI card. There is a squiggly line going in to the controller chip. Signals travel through the PCB at about 2/3 the speed of light. So, it takes a signal about 1 ns to travel 20 cm.

      Yes, higher frequencies, say >10 GHz, require microwave design techniques (waveguides, etc.) to accomodate small wavelengths.

    5. Re:Squiggly etch by fmaxwell · · Score: 2

      I don't think it has anything to do with timing, because at 333 MHz the wavelength of signals is around 1 m.

      If a signal transitions from a 0 to a 1, the length of the trace determines how long it will take for that transition to show up at the other end. It has nothing to do with wavelength and everything to do with the speed of electricity through copper.

    6. Re:Squiggly etch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What wavelength would that be? Eletromagnetic radiation in vacuum?
      Or did you mean the wavelength of the electrons (It is a VERY short wavelenght on those)?
      Information dont have wavelengths, other than in equally abstract mediums...
      If you disagree: What is the speed of information in copper?

      =)

    7. Re:Squiggly etch by PoiBoy · · Score: 1

      Could be done to act like a small inductor or something, but that's just a W.A.G. on my part.

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    8. Re:Squiggly etch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Clock frequency isn't the issue. Rise and fall times are what drives a board into high speed design rules.

      Clock frequency obviously sets an UPPER limit on the rise and fall times - the total rise and fall must be equal to or less than the one cycle. But most logic signals have edges that are much faster than that.

      Mr. Fourier tells us that the bandwidth of a perfect square wave is infinite. A 333 MHz clock with 333 MHz bandwidth is a sine wave. Extending it out to the next harmonic found in a square wave requires 1 GHz bandwidth, and the signal starts to look vaguely squarish. 3 GHz gets you something that anyone would recognize as a square wave, but with lots of ripple.

      The time/distance relationship to pay attention to is not one cycle, but the rise or fall time. If the travel time is more than the rise or fall, then the trace is a transmission line. If the signal gets to the far end before the rise or fall finish, then you can ignore transmission line effects.

    9. Re:Squiggly etch by IsaacW · · Score: 1

      This has to do with propagation of the data along the bus. Mainly that when a set of parallell traces goes around a corner, the inner traces are shorter unless the extra zig-zags are added. By equalizing the length of all the traces, then each of the pulses arrives at the end of the line at the same time. Also, even though the wavelength of 333 MHz electro-magnetic radiation in a vacuum is slightly less that one meter, emr travels through pcb materials at much slower speeds, ranging from 1/3 to about 3/4 the speed of light in a vacuum. Furthermore, any transmission line that is longer than one-hundredth of a wavelength (clearly true in this case) needs to have timing effects taken into consideration.

      So to recap, the wiggly traces on the pcb are to ensure proper timing of the signals traveling along the bus, due to a shorter path around the inside of a corner than the outside.

  21. Re:URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    such a gaping hole in mozilla must be examined and filled by mozilla users

    mjl

  22. They are an optical virus. by L.Torvalds · · Score: -1

    When muslims view things that confuse them, such as lines and other shapes, they explode. Often, this is missinterpreted as a 'suicide bomber' attack, but is simply a case of small muslim brains trying to comprehend the world around them, and exploding.

  23. What exactly happened with SiS735? by Jacek+Poplawski · · Score: 2

    When SiS735 chipset has been released - it was fastest and - probably - most stable chipset for Athlon. Only one (major) vendor created motherboard with it - ECS k7s5a. Other vendors was selling KT266-based motherboards, much more expensive, slower and just worse (I am not sure, but isn't true that VIA bridge still has problem with SB Live on Windows?).
    I would pay a lot of money for ASUS SiS735-based motherboard, but it just doesn't exist. Why?
    ECS k7s5a is fast and stable. The only problem is that a lot of ECS mobos are defective. I am not sure what should I buy now - Soltek or Asus mobo on KT266A? ECS k7s5a? Wait for something new?

    Are there any Linux benchmark of motherboards? With stuff like kernel compiling time, drm performance, hdparm results, etc...?

    1. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by Ogrez · · Score: 1

      I have not had 1 bad ecs k7s5a board... I have put about 15 in systems now, and everyone I got worked... even though i bought them from FRYS ELECTRONICS.... and your lucky to get 2-3 of anything to work and not have to take it back at frys.. So i was very impressed...

      --


      Fire in the hands of the village idiot is no tool, but a weapon of mass destruction
    2. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by linzeal · · Score: 1

      I've gone through 3 bad k7s5a boards when they first came out all in a row, 2 wouldn't boot and one couldn't recognize any ddr memory. I bought one a few months ago for my sister's new computer and it has worked fine. It doesn't work with cheap memory in my exp. So it negated the price savings of the board when I had to go for crucial instead of generic ram.

    3. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by Rob.Mathers · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would definitely recommend going with the K7S5A. I've had one running on a Debian file server/net gateway machine on my home network for the last 4 months. I haven't had a single lockup, crash or hang in all that time. I would definitely recommend it, esp. for a machine with a budget ($95 CDN - probably ~$65 US with onboard LAN and audio), or even for a performance system.

      --

      My other sig is funny!
    4. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by mountain_penguin · · Score: 1

      consided a 760mp?
      i have a tyan tiger K7
      its rock solid
      very fast with a couple of cheap duron 1.1Gigs
      and cache coerency accross 2 procs makes it faster
      beets the sun enterprise 450!! in a set of threading and multi proc tests
      only problem is the noise of 2 processor fans

    5. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by tempest303 · · Score: 2

      Well, Microstar is a pretty good brand. How about this?

      http://www.msi.com.tw/newsrelease/2002_0207_6561 .h tm

      I'd prefer an ASUS too, but MSI is pretty damn good... As it stands, I really like my current ECS board too.

      If you're really curious about benchmarks, etc, email me.

    6. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by gmanske · · Score: 1

      Major depends on your point of view, but Leadtek made a SiS735 board.

    7. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by vipw · · Score: 1

      that's the sis745 for the pentium 4, not the sis735 for Athlon/Duron the previous poster was talking about.

    8. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by mrm677 · · Score: 1

      I highly recommend the ECS K7S5A. Its never ever crashed on me and I've got both the on-board Audio and LAN going on linux just fine. I only paid $65 for it!

    9. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "file server/net gateway" -- So you haven't tried any video or sound stuff. That seems to be the problem area, at least with VIA. (Well their IDE has also been problematic..)

    10. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by tempest303 · · Score: 1

      you're mistaken.

      the *635/645* is for the P4. The 735/745 is for the Athlon/Duron.

    11. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by Datafage · · Score: 2

      You shouldn't be expecting stability out of generic RAM anyway, I always use Crucial even in my good motherboards precisely because you can never tell with the generic variety, so the savings ARE real.

      --

      Nicotine free Amish .sig.

    12. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Well the generic ram ran fine in my via 266 and 266a chipset boards so it really wasn't a savings.

    13. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by loopkin · · Score: 1

      The difference between VIA and SiS when you consider running Linux on it is very simple:
      VIA hasn't given the specs of its chipsets, the drivers are reverse-engineered. SiS has.
      So SiS chipsets are supported far better on Linux...

    14. Re:What exactly happened with SiS735? by vipw · · Score: 1

      oops, yeah, i'm an idiot

  24. Intel! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sure would be nice if Intel would make a chipset for Athlon/Duron. I am so sick of Via chipsets I have sworn off non-Intel rigs for the near future. Intel's engineers would have the perfect forum to put up or shut up, depending on the performance of their solution relative to the existing chipsets. Of course, this is just wishful thinking, but damn it'd be nice...

    1. Re:Intel! by DeMorganLaw · · Score: 1

      In order to produce a Chipset for a CPU you need to have a license from the CPU manufacturer. Hence the big legal tussel between VIA and Intel over VIA DDR chipset for the P4, which Intel claims is an infringment on their P4 patents.
      I doubt you will ever see an Intel made chipset for an AMD cpu. Why, well my good natured /.er it is bad for business, it would be like Microsoft releasing X-Box games for other systems.

    2. Re:Intel! by cbodine · · Score: 0

      "It sure would be nice if Intel would make a chipset for Athlon/Duron" You must be dumb or sick because that will never happen that has the same chance as OS X for intel. None. AMD just needs to help set the standard for a good chipset. They are doing good but not great in that department.

      --
      Dr. Suess: 'Gandalf, Gandalf! Take the ring! I am too small to carry this thing!' 'I can not, will not hold the One.
    3. Re:Intel! by linuxator · · Score: 1

      No, OS X for i386 is possible.. btw, they have done quite lot for getting Darwin run on x86, now current snapshot even supports VIA chipsets now...
      But intel and amd, well, it would be like Microsoft Office for Linux.. :P

      and btw, OpenBSD rules ;)

      --
      * Origin: XBase BBS (2:490/4100) Well the good old days may not return and rocks might melt and sea may burn.
    4. Re:Intel! by cbodine · · Score: 1
      I know about Darwin on intel I did a install of GNU darwin on a machine at work but as far as AQUA and all the apple stuff being ported to intel that is what is very unlikely.

      I keep hearing about classic mode on intel. Well I say no classic mode just straight OS X. Here soon Apple will drop classic options from OS X. They did it as a transition thing to get every one on board. But once you are onboard that is when the door will be slammed shut.

      --
      Dr. Suess: 'Gandalf, Gandalf! Take the ring! I am too small to carry this thing!' 'I can not, will not hold the One.
  25. Wish someone would tell me... by Shivetya · · Score: 2

    How I am supposed to take advantage of my N-Forces dual channel DDR. From each test I see on Toms or Anands they always use one stick of memory.

    However, my understanding of the chipset led me to believe I had to use two chips to see any benefit.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Wish someone would tell me... by Silver222 · · Score: 2
      That's because they aren't using the integrated GF2MX. Using an external graphics card, it really doesn't matter if you have two sticks or one.

      --
      "It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." Bill Hicks
    2. Re:Wish someone would tell me... by thegrommit · · Score: 1

      Just because the testers didn't use two sticks of memory doesn't mean you can't.

      However, you may need to be careful about which two memory slots you're using. Originally, nforce boards would go into "superstability" mode (i.e. slow) if you had memory in any bank other than 1 & 3.

      I know that MSI have since issued a BIOS update that allows all three slots to be used with no performance penalty.

    3. Re:Wish someone would tell me... by Merlin42 · · Score: 1

      Did you actually read those articles?
      Kevin

  26. OH MY GOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    What the hell did that man do to himself?! DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK!

  27. Boy, if they put their heads together... by NerveGas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    AMD has a nice dual-bus SMP architecture. Via has the DDR333 RAM. NVidea has the dual-banked DDR266. If we could either of these memory architectures paired up with the dual-bus SMP Athlon systems, then we would have the making of a VERY serious dual-CPU machine.

    Come to think of it, I recall reading that by adding more north bridges from the 760MP chipset, you could have more than 2 Athlons on a board. If someone were to make a quad Athlon board with dual-banked DDR333, that would be a SERIOUS piece of iron for the enterprise, and at a very reasonable price. It's too bad that everyone's afraid of stepping on Intel's toes...

    steve

    --
    Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
    1. Re:Boy, if they put their heads together... by syzxys · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Come to think of it, I recall reading that by adding more north bridges from the 760MP chipset, you could have more than 2 Athlons on a board.

      Could you post a link to this?

      ---
      NEW! Crash Windows NT/2000/XP from any account using only printf!
  28. Re:URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Konqueror 2.2.2 crashes if the mouse even hovers over that link. I'm hoping it's not an attempt to smash the stack.

  29. A shame about the SiS 745 by tempest303 · · Score: 2

    While not performing too badly, it's a shame that the SiS chipset doesn't do a little better against the Via offerings... I've got an SiS 735 board, and it's solid as a rock, and blazing fast under Linux 2.4.18-pre9, and I don't have to put up with Via's flakey-ass south bridge chips. Via might be the speed king, but I'm sticking with SiS' 7x5 line for my future purchases. Here's hoping the 755 (or whatever comes next) kicks some Via ass. (or that AMD comes along and makes another decent chipset again, whichever...)

    1. Re:A shame about the SiS 745 by loopkin · · Score: 1

      you should switch to 2.4.18-rc2-ac2, it has a nice patch for SiS chipsets inside, faster and even more stable...

  30. Value per Dollar by LeiraHoward · · Score: 1
    I find it interesting how much the price increases per unit of value. Seems the fastest, most impressive motherboards and CPU's out there today only outperform the lesser price by a very small margin, and yet people will shell out big bucks for the latest and greatest.

    My theory is to buy the second-tier of technology. For instance, I just picked up an Athlon XP 1700+, with a ECS K7S5A motherboard, GeForce 2 64 MB card, and lots of extras, for less than $400 with shipping, because I decided it wasn't worth an additional couple hundred to go with a GeForce 4 rather than a 2, etc. Pricewatch is a great place to look.

    And the best part is that I now have a fairly good computer and still have the money to upgrade again in a year or so if I want to.

    Out of curiosity, anyone out here going to buy this top-of-the-line board, and if so, why? (and how do you get so much cash, wanna give me some?) What benefits are there to having the best computer out there vs. the second best? (I'm a poor college student, I'm also slightly curious....)

    1. Re:Value per Dollar by Master+Bait · · Score: 1
      I'm totally happy with trailing-edge technology. Every April I get a new motherboard and whatever new CPU that costs between $70 and $80 dollars.

      Last year I decided I was sick of 3d games, so I got a real cheap $68 ECS K7SEM all-in-one board. I sold the old Voodoo Banshee card, and the old ethernet card, and the old K6-2 CPU on Ebay for about half what I payed for them the previous April. The board has been extremely stable (Linux & KDE) and the display quality is quite surprising. I use a 19" monitor and I have to run 16-bit color, though, to get a decent refresh rate.

      This April, I'll another SiS all-in-one. The new ones use DDR memory and the 315 video gpu so I'm looking forward to running 24-bit color. I'll probably get $40 for the old ECS board and maybe $35 or so for the old 850 Athlon. Not bad for a years worth of computing!

      --
      "Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
      --Tom Schulman
  31. Not to spoil it... by Penguinoflight · · Score: 0

    but the KT333 won all but 2 tests, and wasn't behind significantly at all on them. I wonder if KT333 will perform better when 333mhz bus athlons come around?

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
    1 John 4:14
  32. Socket B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Socket A is OK, but my girlfriend takes a socket B. Hasn't given me a bit of trouble.

    1. Re:Socket B by collar · · Score: 1

      Your girlfriend hasn't given you a bit a trouble?!? Where can I find such a woman...

  33. [slightly offtopic] SMP boards? by brer_rabbit · · Score: 1

    What decent Athlon boards exist for SMP?

    1. Re:[slightly offtopic] SMP boards? by syzxys · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Tyan Tiger MP kicks ass, IMHO. (AMD 760MP chipset). I've been running it since December, never crashed (from hardware, anyway. :-) One note with this board, be sure to get a *heavy-duty* power supply. My SMP box has an Enermax EG651P-VE-something or other (550W), which works *very* well (but is kind of expensive).

      Be sure to stay away from the AMD 760MPX chipset (note the X) until early March, because on the current revision, *USB doesn't work at all on the Southbridge* (although I've heard vendors are shipping USB 2.0 cards to get around this problem, but do you really want to lose a PCI slot?)

      ---
      NEW! Crash Windows NT/2000/XP from any account using only printf!
    2. Re:[slightly offtopic] SMP boards? by cbodine · · Score: 0

      I have the same Tyan board the only thing was I got 2 gig of ram for it and didn't look at the user manual beofre I did so. Well you have to have two diffrent types of ram in it? It didn't make much sense then. Well if you want to know then check the user manual for the memory matrix chart. alsway check the user manuals kids it will save you in the long run.

      --
      Dr. Suess: 'Gandalf, Gandalf! Take the ring! I am too small to carry this thing!' 'I can not, will not hold the One.
    3. Re:[slightly offtopic] SMP boards? by Chazmati · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good point about the MPX chipset. I've been waiting patiently for the Asus A7M266-D and now that it's out, the USB is busted! Plus the boards I've seen have built-in audio, which I'd actually rather *not* have. And what's the deal with that little daughter-card looking thing where the power comes in? Looks kludgey. But the PCI USB 2.0 card is supposed to work in the 64-bit slot, no? So maybe 'losing' a PCI slot isn't that bad. I'm assuming the two 64-bit PCI slots are on a separate bus from the 32-bit slots... would this mean less IRQ conflicts?

      So the Tyan Tiger MPX was starting to look good, but then I hear the USB card Tyan is shipping is NOT a USB 2.0 card. So now it seems like you're really losing a PCI slot, since there don't seem to be that many 64-bit PCI cards out there now (or you buy a new 64-bit USB card and junk the free one). Built-in LAN sounds great, and the board looks a lot cleaner, especially the standard hard drive power connector by the ATX power connector for more current. Tyan probably learned a lot from their first SMP Athlon boards.

      Anyone else have any experience with SMP Athlons? Oh, and did you use Athlon MP's or did you cheat and use the XP's?

    4. Re:[slightly offtopic] SMP boards? by 1234567 · · Score: 0

      I cheated and used 2 XP 1600+ on the Tiger MP. I absolutely love it. A beauty:
      1) Windowmaker .7x with three virtual windows.
      2) I had Netscape6 running in one,
      3) Netscape4.7x running in another,
      4) and 4 xterms (3 compiling different kde packages, one running top),
      5) have 256meg of ram
      6) and was using 40megs of swap
      7) and had a system load of 3.5,
      8) and both cpus plugged at 0.0% idle
      9) AND LET ME TELL YA: switching from desktop to desktop an running other apps and doing what ever, WAS SMOOTH AS SILK. You would not even know that I had 3 compiles going in the background.

    5. Re:[slightly offtopic] SMP boards? by syzxys · · Score: 1

      • what's the deal with that little daughter-card looking thing where the power comes in?

        I haven't seen the one on the A7M266-D, but I remember some older ASUS boards did this as well. In that case, it was some kind of power filter; it was on a daughtercard to keep the motherboard from heating up too much. :-)

      • I'm assuming the two 64-bit PCI slots are on a separate bus from the 32-bit slots... would this mean less IRQ conflicts?

        Unfortunately, it depends on the design of the board, but I doubt you'll run into IRQ conflicts on a modern SMP board. All the PCI interrupts end up on PCI INTA-INTD lines, which on SMP boards are routed to the APIC. PCI interrupts are level-triggered (i.e. intrinsically shareable) so most IRQ conflicts are caused by devices on the ISA bus, e.g. parallel ports, serial ports, floppy disk, many sound cards, ISA modems, etc., *except* in cases where the BIOS insists on allocating a separate interrupt for each device. Anyway, I've heard that some OS's show APIC interrupts as INT1-INT24 (so you obviously couldn't possibly have an interrupt conflict), and I know my SMP board hasn't had any interrupt conflict-type problems, so I doubt you'll have any problems, but YMMV.

      • Oh, and did you use Athlon MP's or did you cheat and use the XP's?

        I used the MP's, only because I wanted to make sure if something went wrong with the system it *wasn't* going to be the processors. A lot of people use the XP's instead, they seem to work well. I heard a rumor that AMD is going to lock out SMP capabilities on the XP's. I also heard that they're releasing Duron MP's. Isn't the rumor mill fun? :-)

      ---
      Crash Windows XP with just a simple printf!
  34. Moderators what kind of TROLL CRACK are you on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the hell is the parent post Flamebait?

    1. Re:Moderators what kind of TROLL CRACK are you on? by red5 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Tell me aboot it eh. (canada joke)
      I just metamoded a whole bunch of terible mods.
      Don't worry he'll get his in meta.

      --
      I know I'm going to hell, I'm just trying to get good seats.
  35. Upgradeable Chipsets? by Locke_CJ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the article:
    "The pinouts on the KT333's north and south bridge chips follow VIA's V-Map standard, so the KT333 north bridge is obstensibly a drop-in replacement for the KT266 or KT266A. (Heck, it's theroetically pin-compatible with the P4X266A, for whatever that's worth.) Like those chipsets, the KT333 north bridge chip can be paired up with one of several different south bridge chips."

    Which got me to thinking, "Why can't someone produce motherboards wherein components other than the CPU are quickly upgradeable?"
    Aside from radical revisions, is there any reason why an I/O controller couldn't be swapped out via some sort of socketed interface?

    1. Re:Upgradeable Chipsets? by syzxys · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why can't someone produce motherboards wherein components other than the CPU are quickly upgradeable?

      Wow, that's a good idea. I wonder how the cost of manufacturing for, e.g. a ZIF socket + chip compares to just surface-mounting or whatever the motherboard makers do now. (Although, actually I think at least one of my current motherboards has the southbridge in a socket).

      I see two problems though:

      1. How big of a target market would there be, initially? I mean, sure probably 50% of the people on /. would be in the market, but what about the big OEM's? I don't see "consumers" going to the local CompUSA to upgrade their northbridge, I mean hell, (a) most people don't even know what a "northbridge" is, (b) the CompUSA folks would be more likely to tell them they just needed a new motherboard or new computer. "Oh yeah, your power switch is broken, better upgrade your case, motherboard, and processor while you're at it." :-)
      2. The programming interface to each chipset is proprietary. Ever try to get information about the registers on a VIA chipset? They want you to sign a giant NDA just to look at the specs PDF, for crying out loud! (Although last time I looked, some people had slipped up and posted NDA'd VIA specsheets where google could find it. Shh, don't tell anyone. :-) And since it's proprietary, that means the developers are used to being able to change it whenever they want. IOW, there's no engineering pressure to make things backward-compatible, because the only software that is affected is the BIOS. So, you could say, just distribute BIOS images with the new chipsets. But how many tech support calls do you think they're going to get when people accidentally plug in the new chipset with ACPI power off registers are in the same place the DRAM timing registers used to be? (so the board won't power on anymore).

      So in other words, I think it's a great idea, but there's no way the chipset companies are going to have it while they're still acting like it's the 1950's and every single chipset is (a) proprietary, (b) guarded like it's the secret to eternal life or something. Oh well, we can always dream. :-)

      ---
      NEW! Crash Windows NT/2000/XP from any account using only printf!
    2. Re:Upgradeable Chipsets? by Locke_CJ · · Score: 1

      To point #1, it would depend completely on the cost of using some sort of socket interface instead of surface mounting the part, and as I see it, would be the option of the motherboard manufacturers, so then any additional costs could be passed directly onto the consumers. If you want that extra feature, you pay X amount more for it.

      On point #2, something like this could be implemented without losing "intellectual property" in the process. NVidia, SiS, VIA, etc. could create their own interface and develop chips for that interface, separte from the others. So, for a VIA 7xx series motherboard, you have interchangeable I/O controllers. If you get a 8xx series board, there's a completely different pin array, as there would be in a SiS board. It would be much like Socket 370 vs. 426(?) vs. Slot 1,2,A and so on. This cuts down on the possibility of parts that fit but match up incorrectly.
      Thanks for your comments, I agree with your take on it, I just wanted to keep the conversation moving.

    3. Re:Upgradeable Chipsets? by Pussy+Is+Money · · Score: 1
      People have been trying to do that, but the effort required for an architecture that can work even as little as five years into the feature simply does not afford it (yet). Look at how expensive SCSI is, for example: this cost is a direct result of its forward-looking and comprehensive design.

      Modularity comes at a cost, compatibility comes at a cost. Although we are taught the virtues of modularity in the classroom (and can of course see for ourselves how modularity is beneficial), those of us who proceed to actually build things quickly get to appreciate the subtle (and not so subtle) drawbacks as well, in the form of added complexity on virtually every level. Just imagine a five year old architecture so flexible that it can take advantage of PC133 RAM today -- the cost would be entirely prohibitive, and there are so many parts that you would need to replace that you are better off having someone else do it for you -- which it basically how things work right now.

      --
      Pushin' 'n dealin', shovin' 'n stealin'
  36. What was accomplished in a year by tyrr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Compare those results with what was there a year ago.
    I had ALi Magic1 board for almoust a year and I'm quite happy with it (I run Linux 24/7 on it). I recently bought VIA266A board for another computer. Good stability, more features (on-board NIC, 6-channel sound, AGPpro, on-board IDE RAID), perfomance gains still look marginal to me though.

  37. Tom's hardware by brer_rabbit · · Score: 5, Funny

    I find it amusing how Tom's always reduces things to frames per second in Quake3. As if that's the best measure of performance for any component of a system.

    I imagine in the future, manufacturers, instead of listing [MHz, drive speed, etc], will list modifiers to Quake3 FPS. ie- specs on a system of the future will read like a Dungeons & Dragons character sheet:

    Bob's Machine of 3l33t Gaming
    CPU of giant GHZ: +100 FPS
    Elven Motherboard: +5 FPS
    GPU of Rendering: +80 FPS
    Cursed Hard drive:-15 FPS
    magic DDR memory: +20 FPS
    ISA SB16: -20 FPS
    -----------------
    Save vs Quake3: 170 FPS

  38. The End is Nigh by jaavaaguru · · Score: 2

    Socket-A Chipset Roundup

    Roundups happen at the end. The end of what? Is CmdrTaco trying to tell us something?

  39. Does VIA sell a Socket A CPU? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or is AMD the only choice?

    1. Re:Does VIA sell a Socket A CPU? by DeMorganLaw · · Score: 1

      Via purchased X86 clone CPU maker Cyrix a while back, perhpas some /.er's might remember the old Cyrix 6x86 PR133 and PR166 cpus. Anyway Via purchased Cyrix a while back and now produces the C3 and C4 line of processors. As far as I know these are PIII clone CPUs built to work in standard Intel chipset motherboards. They are supposed to be a big hit in Asia because they are really cheap, and consume very little power.

  40. EV6/S2K .... by taniwha · · Score: 2

    Those are probably there for the cpu to north bridge traces - the clocks need a tiny delay so that the data (which is launched at about the same time) meets setup and hold at the far end

  41. NVidia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THat NVidia chipset sounds sweet for an integrated multimedia system! Does anyone know if there are linux drivers for the integrated sound on that board?

    1. Re:NVidia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NVIDIA is notorious for not documenting their products. It's a customer control tactic. Giving them money is unethical.

  42. More than you'll ever need? by Chazmati · · Score: 2

    You got 640 kB of RAM in that, Billy?

    (kidding!)

  43. Socket-A Chipset? by MrEd · · Score: 2


    Sounds like a cool carnival game... with the big oversize mallet and all, right?

    --

    Wah!

  44. What is needed is a Stability Report... by The+Optimizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    After assembling a new system consisting of an Antec case, Soyo Dragon Plus motheboard, 1GB Corsair DDR RAM, XP 1800+ CPU, 64MB GeForce 2 Ti, Sound Blaster Audigy, Yamaha CD-RW and Adaptec 2930 SCSI card (Notice the lack of cheap components), I've discovered that the VIA chipsets and Nvidia videocards have a history of not getting along, with all fingers pointing at the KT266A chipset.

    Running Win2K Pro (fully updated), and the latest BIOS and drivers for everything, and not overclocking a darn thing, I'm still suffering random system lockups doing simple activites such as broswing the web. Games are too tempermental to seriously play. (It was really bad before I uninstalled the latest MS win2K rollup update - click on any browser link and have a 15% chance of the system hanging...)

    I bought the Dragon Plus Motherboard based on all the wonderful online reviews of the board and chipset. Not one said anything about the lack of stability with the KT266A chipset, or any problems with lockups. Later, doing some google searching turned up message boards full of other people experiencing the exact same problems. The only "solution" discovered (and even recommended on the Soyo web site) is to drop the RAM/Bus speed to 100Mhz from 133Mhz. That kind of defeats the purpose of making a fast machine...

    Now I'm trying to research a motherboard replacment (which means resintalling the OS and most software - shoot an afternoon there) based on stability first, then performance. I'm thinking nForce, but we'll see...

    It's a shame to waste the money on motherboard I'm going to throw out, but there wasn't a warning to be found when I did my initial research. (Note to self: Use google more for these kinds of things)

    -Matt

    1. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by glitch23 · · Score: 1

      You got that right. My dad bought the regular Dragon board, 512 megs PC2100 DDR Ram, the Athlon 1.4ghz, and a 430 watt PS. He has had nothing but problems. He first had an Abit with the KT133 chipset and things didn't work out so he got a new cpu, new ram, and the Dragon board. Things got worse. He gets random lockups like you do and most of the time now the system won't even boot up. It will lock up on the BIOS SCREEN. It also locks up in scandisk, web browsing, you name it. Win98 was on his system and I put XP Pro on it and it just didn't do a bit of good. He has an ATI AiW Radeon by the way and he still has these problems so it's not related to the video card. It's the damn VIA chipset (a VIA chipset was in the ABit board he got initailly coincidentally). he has spent 6 months and $800 trying to get it all working. Lately I read of the 100mhz "fix" and after doing that in the BIOS and rebooting the system woudln't even turn the monitor on anymore. I gave up. He is in the process of looking for a new board.

      He doesn't know where he went wrong b/c like you he bought it b/c of the awards and rave reviews it got and yet he has had nothing but trouble.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    2. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by Catbeller · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here I am, a rather indifferent assembler of PC's, but I have to think: these problems sound the problems I used to have when my box overheated.

      You have the latest and greatest everything with 400+ ps's... lots of heat there. Mayhap something simple, like say, a spot on the mobo is heating more than others, and causing these problems.

      In the olden days (3 years ago) I'd have taken the cover off the box, and directed a commerical box fan on the assembly. But that can't work anymore -- the air must circulate just so...

      Well, I can listen and learn. No dragon boards for my next box.

    3. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by FakePlasticDubya · · Score: 1

      I just put together a system with near identical components (Only 512 MB DDR RAM), but I have not had any problems with any sort of conflict. I'm running Windows XP, and I haven't had any random lock ups or anything. I wonder why I haven't, but you have? Interesting. Are you sure the system is being cooled well enough?

      --

      "We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it" -- Winston Churchill
    4. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Made sure the AGP driving value is set right?

      I had graphics freezing problems until I tweaked that setting, and got rid of some slow RAM in favor of some CAS2 Century stuff.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    5. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Running Win2K Pro ... I'm still suffering random system lockups doing simple activites such as broswing the web.


      I'm not sure why you thought this was newsworthy enough to post to /.
    6. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by frekio · · Score: 1

      Actually it's probably your Nvidia drivers. The 23.11 drivers, which are the latest, are INCREDIBLY unstable. I recommend either downgrading or upgrading to a beta drive i.e. 27.20 which is much more stable. I have a kt266a and have absolutely no problems except for once in a while when crappy Nvidia drivers come out. If you check the message on crash you will notice it is your display driver, and this is not the kt266a's fault.

    7. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by glitch23 · · Score: 1

      My dad has left the cover off of his case for over 3 months now because he has been working with it so it has been getting an air flow into the case. And as the OP mentioned in his response to this mesg, my Dad has also said that he experiences these issues within just a few seconds of turning the machine on. The last time I messed with it was this past weekend and I the first boot got into XP just fine. I was there less than 2 min. I then rebooted and entered the BIOS and changed a few settings. The next reboot didn't complete. In fact I never got the initial BIOS sscreen to appear before the system locked up. It's definitely not a heat issue.

      You have to play games with it just to enter the BIOS sometimes as well which is ridiculous and uncalled for. If you don't hit Del at the right time you get a black screen with a blue bar at the bottom and all you can do is reboot again. It is pathetic.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    8. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by Pootie+Tang · · Score: 1
      Actually it's probably your Nvidia drivers. The 23.11 drivers, which are the latest, are INCREDIBLY unstable.

      Interesting.. When I first saw this post I was at work. I could swear I had the 23.12 drivers installed at home, but checking the Nvidia site indeed 23.11 was the latest.

      Well, I checked when I got home and I do have the 23.12 drivers. I got them through Windows Update about 3 weeks ago.

      I'm very suprised that Windows Update, which typically has older drivers, actually has something newer than what's on the Nvidia site. Very strange. Nonetheless, the 23.12 drivers are working out pretty well for me (though 23.11 wasn't that problematic for me, it does seem better).

      So if running windows, try windows update, it helped for me (I'm running XP pro with a GF3 TI 200).

    9. Re:What is needed is a Stability Report... by vandan · · Score: 2

      My Via KT266A beast is VERY stable. I have an Epox 8KHA+ with 256MB of PC2100 and a 1600XP+ Athlon. I run Slackware only. I am thinking about re-installing Windows to play Black & White, but I can't comment on Windows stability at the moment. Linux stability seems very good. It only ever crashes with a cvs DRI X server for my Radeon - I haven't crashed xfree86-4.2.0 yet with this system. And I also tried with the CPU overclocked and reporting as a 1800XP+ Athlon. This was stable but it made me feel a little nervous so I clocked it back again.
      Are you sure it's Via's fault?

  45. But Via Sucks!!! by EvlG · · Score: 2

    The biggest problem with Athlon right now is Via. Their chipsets suck. Its practically impossible to get a combination of motherboard, drivers, video card, and video drivers to be happy. The chips + drives are just too unstable.

    I built a machine on the ASUS A7M266 last August and have seen problem after problem. From what I can tell, it is solely due to the Via stuff.

    I am seriously considering rebuilding to machine to use NVIDIA, but I am afraid they are also unproven. Who knows if I will trade one instability for another?

    I really wish AMD would get with the program and encourage quality chipset development like Intel does. There is a reason Intel chips are so much more stable - it'd because Intel cares about the chipset market. I wish we could say the same for AMD.

  46. Are you serious or just mistaken? by ZoeSch · · Score: 1

    Good to see you having problems with the A7M266 that you can tell are related to Via when that motherboard is based on an AMD chipset:

    http://usa.asus.com/mb/socketa/a7m266/overview.h tm

    As you can see it's based on the AMD 761 chipset... and as you probably heard, they're quite stable (And PCI bug free)

    Maybe that's your problem... the 761 chipset felt offended because you called it a Via :D

    --
    I hate to agree with davecrazy but...
    1. Re:Are you serious or just mistaken? by EvlG · · Score: 2

      No the board is a hybrid chipset - it uses Via Southbridge, and that is where the problems lie.

  47. New AMD 8xxx chipset series by hattig · · Score: 2
    I really wish AMD would get with the program and encourage quality chipset development like Intel does. There is a reason Intel chips are so much more stable - it'd because Intel cares about the chipset market. I wish we could say the same for AMD.

    Ah! But AMD yesterday announced their new 8000 series chipset devices for HyperTransport systems (i.e., Hammer initially and MIPS).

    This new chipset includes the 8111 hub (a traditional southbridge (USB2, 6-channel audio, ATA133, Network, PCI, etc - similar to the nForce MCP it appears) with 800MB/s uplink via HT), the 8131 tunnel (a dual PCI-X controller with 6.4GB/s uplink and 3.2GB/s downlink) and the 8151 tunnel (an AGP 8x controller with 6.4GB/s uplink and 1.6GB/s downlink).

    There are documents on AMDs website (both the press release and the technical details), and a couple of good discussions on AcesHardware forum (http://www.aceshardware.com/forum).

    You can chain the devices like this:

    [CPU][PCI-X][AGP][IO]

    Remember the memory controller for the Hammer is on the processor itself, so there is not a traditional northbridge with memory controller on it anymore.

    1. Re:New AMD 8xxx chipset series by hattig · · Score: 2
      Second try:

      [CPU]<--6.4GBps-->[PCI-X]<--3.2GBps--> [AGP]<--0.8GBps-->[IO]

      Or you can have:

      [CPU]<--6.4GBps-->[PCI-X]
      |
      | (6.4GBps HT CPU interconnect)
      |
      [CPU]<--6.4GBps-->[AGP]<--0.8GBps-->[I O]

      You could even have (the graphics designer dream):

      [CPU]<--6.4GBps-->[PCI-X]<--3.2GBps--> [AGP1]
      |
      | (6.4GBps HT CPU interconnect)
      |
      [CPU]<--6.4GBps-->[AGP2]<--0.8GBps-->[ IO]

      HT enabled SCSI controllers, GigE and 10GigE NICs, etc, will also appear and will be used on HyperTransport based server motherboards.

  48. Yes by Shivetya · · Score: 2

    What I am looking for is "proof".

    They keep saying its got great dual channel performance, I haven't found a review comparing two nforce boards where on uses 1 dimm and another uses 2.

    Anyone got one? I want to see if this is a real bandwidth bonus or just some slick advertising. If it were truly as powerful as they state then something must be horribly wrong with 64bit access.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  49. Socket A boards - Via and SIS by Merovign · · Score: 1

    Hmmm... I'm still looking for a good Socket A board, I'll keep an eye on the 333. I've had a few problems but have been mainly satsified by the stability of the KT133A boards, though they are a little out of date.

    As to ECS and the K7S5A, I wouldn't touch them with a ten-meter cattle-prod. I ordered two right after they came out, and they promptly Bit The Big Green Banana of Death shortly after startup, taking a pair of out-of-warranty Athlon 1.4's with them.

    ECS's response was, basically, "too bad so sad." The retailer finally (after 3 months) refunded the cost of the boards (or claimed they have, the money hasn't arrived yet), but I got to eat the cost of two Athlons.

    I am one of literally thousands who have had serious problems with these boards. If you haven't, more power to you and I hope your boards stay healthy.

    As for me, ECS = shoveling cash into the fireplace.

    (And no, I wasn't overclocking them or running them off power from a car battery or anything terminally stupid like that.)

  50. I've checked for overheating, and that's not it. by The+Optimizer · · Score: 2

    A quick rundown of the steps taken:

    The CPU was boxed, and the approved heatsink has been checked for attachment.

    The case has 3x 80mm fans in it, plus a chip fan on the mother board. Other chips (video card, etc) have heat sinks. There is also a slim fan/heat sink attached to the bottom of the hard drive.

    Internally, Round cabes are used for all interconnects for maximal airflow in the case.

    The PCI cards are spaced out to insure a empty card slot on each side of every card.

    I've monitored the the CPU and case with the onboard temperature sensors/utility and the chassis tempuratue stabilizes at about 38 degrees centigrade, while the CPU stabilizes at about 46 degrees, unless I'm running a 3d intensive game, then it heats up to about 52 degrees.

    The lockups have occured when the system is warm or cold; and the only things that have caused their frequency to changs has been when drivers/patches have been applied.

    The idea that one spot on the motherboard is too hot is interesting.... but once you read the steps I've taken to keep the system cool, then you'll probably agree that if such a thing is happening, then it is a design flaw in the motherboard layout which should be a problem with all examples of that motherboard.

    Also, with the lockups occuring at times when the system hasn't been given a chance to warm up, that suggests that overheating is the wrong culprit to look at.

    -Matt

  51. NV7m/SocketA good upgrade board but be ready... by ISPTech · · Score: 1

    I can easily comment on this, as I just got my AthlonXP 1600+ in yesterday and dropped it in to my brand new Abit NV7m which has the built on GeForce 2 and the Nvidia motherboard chip.

    A friend of mine had a kt133a chip with his athlon and he had the problems of SB Live + kt133 not working all the time. This motivated me to go out on a limb and try the nvidia route.

    For anyone who has been holding off on upgrades for a while like I did though, the purchase of the NV7m with the built on Geforce 2 (running at 6x agp!! according to abit) was a nice upgrade from my withering Voodoo 3 3k. $140ish + s&h for vid card and MB isn't bad since the competition is about the same price. I'm still installing stuff to test the on board video card. I was surprised not many hardware sites reviewed it, and there's very little (in english) on Deja-Google about the nv7m good or bad.

    Of special note on this, the motherboard Geforce 2 on the abit board only has Win 2k and Win XP drivers, which sucked, because I wasn't ready to abandon 98SE yet as my gaming machine. Oh well, it was time. :-)

    G

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  52. Re:URGENT: Massive Mozilla security hole discovere by Roto-Rooter+Man · · Score: -1

    It's not an attempt to smash the stack. What you describe sounds like standard Konqueror functionality.

    --

    The goatse guy for president. Win one for the gaper!
  53. Still slightly offtopic... by Chazmati · · Score: 2

    I've had IRQ problems with my Abit BP6. With all five PCI slots filled (an Adaptec 29160N controller, FireWire card, Soundblaster 128, 3Com NIC and nVidia PCI card) I couldn't get things to work right. I went back to the Voodoo3 AGP (different bus, apparently) and had no problems.

    I guess in theory they should share IRQ's; maybe one of the cards didn't play nice. And with five slots and four lines (INTA-INTD) you know there's going to be some sharing, even if there are 24 APICs... right? Plus there's motherboard USB that shares with one of those slots.

    Thanks for the tips.