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Palm on a Bicycle

jcwise writes: "Want to use your Palm or Handspring as a bike computer? Here are two different products that use completely different approaches. I'm not sure if either are better than a $30 bike computer. With PDA prices falling, it might be a fun hack."

97 comments

  1. Too expensive? by malcolm2r · · Score: 1

    Would be a very expensive bike computer if you fell over and broke it.

    1. Re:Too expensive? by SkewlD00d · · Score: 1

      A $300, 5 pound, 10x10x6" replacement for a $30, 2 oz, 1x1x0.5" part.

      "A $1000 computer will protect a $5 surge-protector."

      --
      The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
    2. Re:Too expensive? by cyborg_monkey · · Score: -1

      Yes, but the Palm can run Linux. And we know how hard the Linux crowd looks for a reason to justify that pos OS.

    3. Re:Too expensive? by SCHecklerX · · Score: 2
      Exactly. Not to mention rain, mud, road scum, etc.


      I go through at least a computer a year on my roadbike, for some reason or other. Mountain bike I've given up and just ride it and always just have to wonder how much more suffering until the end of the race.

  2. fp? by real_b0fh · · Score: -1

    at this time in the morning? heh

    --
    "Contrary to popular belief, UNIX is user friendly. It just happens to be selective on who it makes friendship with"
  3. uhh by nomadic · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Want to use your Palm or Handspring as a bike computer?

    No.

  4. What's more expensive? by CheezyD · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    A PDA or those silly ultralight tritanium framed bicycles with full floating supensions?

    1. Re:What's more expensive? by CheezyD · · Score: -1

      Thank you, may I have another?

  5. nice. by Goofy+Gavin · · Score: 5, Funny

    all that's missing is a little meter that keeps track of how much time you're wasting by building this system.

  6. You swine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we say in Texas. I'll bet you couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.

    You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.

    You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed themselfs in recognition of what they had done.

    I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell?

    Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly.

    You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you ckoke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs.

    You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot.

    And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements
    of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle,
    waiting for the bite of the snake?

    You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meatslapper.

    On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

    You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill.

    You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away.

    I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don't have enough strength left to deride
    your ignorant questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh.

    The only thing worse than our logic is your manners. I have snipped away most of your of what you wrote, because, well... it didn't really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective... Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometimes forget that there are "challenged" persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you.


    This troll was reposted from the Troll Library without permission of the original author. If you object to this post, or if you wish to add your troll to the Troll Library, please reply to this message.

    1. Re:You swine. by Fuck+You+Faggot · · Score: 0, Troll

      STFU

  7. They even give out free t-shirts! by fungus · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    bikebrain All you need to do to get your t-shirt is send them the description and directions for 5 biking routes you like.

    Special Offer - Get a free BikeBrain T-shirt by sending us 5 route sheets. Each route sheet needs to have a clearly defined starting point, distance points, (delta distances are optional), corresponding turn indications and descriptions. If yours are usable, we'll send you a free T-shirt. Follow the directions below for submitting a route.

    1. Re:They even give out free t-shirts! by Hiro+Antagonist · · Score: 2

      Urm; why don't they give out cycling jerseys instead?

      --

      --
      I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
  8. Old news.. been there done that. by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

    I had this back in 1999. There's a shareware program that does all this and simply connects to a el-cheapo bike "puter" and uses it's reed switch as the pulse input on the rs232 port.

    it was nice, graphs, averages, etc... it just sucked down batteries like mad. but it was a great addition to my recumbent trike.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Old news.. been there done that. by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      fount it... HERE

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Old news.. been there done that. by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      DOH! ok so I'm a retard.... LOL.... the damned link didn't paste. but in reasearch it's the same software as the bikini.. just evolved from 1999

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Old news.. been there done that. by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Informative
      Tough on batteries: That's why I went with NiMH cells, they seem to handle the current drawn and constant recharging much better. They're pretty light cells, too, if you need to carry a backup set.

      Garmin, and probably others by now, offer a GPS receiver you can plug into Palms to track your position, probably nice if you want to see which street you're going down.

      In town there are PedEx couriers who might benefit from such a device, assuming it doesn't distract them from traffic.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  9. So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I wanna know when there's a Woody for my Palm!

  10. Bicycle PDA by invisi · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, you're riding along, and you're like, shoot, where am I going agian? So you whip out that handy stylus for that PDA, and you start writing. Pretty soon, you realize that you've let go of your handle bars, and run into one of those light posts that keep intruding where you bike.

    1. Re:Bicycle PDA by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting
      So, you're riding along, and you're like, shoot, where am I going agian? So you whip out that handy stylus for that PDA, and you start writing. Pretty soon, you realize that you've let go of your handle bars, and run into one of those light posts that keep intruding where you bike.


      This is why you pretty much need one button control and it would be near a shifter. I.e. go from the statistics screen to a map (assuming you have a GPS receiver plugged in) My GPS tracks where I'm going, as I go along, showing me going down roads, etc. Maybe more helpful when off road, however, GPS work badly on a moving platform in canyons or among redwoods (even works pretty bad inside a small house, so you get an idea how weak the signals are.)


      Another option, is the P Brain, don't know much about it, but it gets good reviews and is one button.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Bicycle PDA by Ooblek · · Score: 3, Funny
      What would you need a one button control for? All you need is to have about 7 whirly LEDs on the front and a speaker for a voice. Then you have the K.I.T.T bike and it tells you to watch out for the lightposts.

      The added advantage is, of course, the turbo boost for jumping over those big annoying trucks. (But you would probably have to make sure you have one of those slotted seats for the landing...ouch!) The ejector seat function would be pretty fun too. Of course, they would probably pass a law against the ejector seat.....I know I would go into a busy public area and leave the bike unlocked so someone would steal it. I'm sure it would be hours of fun watching bike thieves getting their asses blasted off the bike during their getaway.

      I guess the only downside is that the bike might come with a signed pic of David Hasselhoff. I don't know if I'd want to contaminate my paper shredder with that.

    3. Re:Bicycle PDA by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      I guess the only downside is that the bike might come with a signed pic of David Hasselhoff. I don't know if I'd want to contaminate my paper shredder with that.

      I wouldn't sweat it, the first big orange fireball you passed through would probably take care of it. Can't have anything as gimmicky as that without big orange fireballs appearing from time to time.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  11. comparisons by Alien54 · · Score: 2
    Teh bikinie bike computer seems to underutilise the palm capabilities, and seem oriented to a more lowend user. the bike brain seems to be for a more serious pro biker, with some added capabilities that would make sense in that context.

    Note that "BikeBrain is compatible with Pilot 1000/5000, PalmPilot Professional/ Personal, Palm III/x/e, Palm V/x. We do not support the Palm VII yet. " so you do not need the latest and greatest yet. Heck, you can get a Palm iiie in the palm store right now for under $80 bucks, plus shipping. That is not bad.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:comparisons by Crapflooder · · Score: -1

      No Globalisation
      by Paul Treanor


      Logically, there can be no process of globalisation in a world order of nation states. A world order is already global, by definition. The logic of 'globalisation' is false, but the idea has become an ideology. For different reasons, different people claim that there is globalisation. The word "globalisation" started as an academic and media hype. Just when it was going out of fashion, the 1999 Seattle summit revived media attention for the issue. Pro-globalisation and anti-globalisation ideologies (and movements) have emerged. That fact remains, that the underlying 'globalisation' process simply does not exist. People are often talking about something else - about neoliberalism or about normative globalism, for instance.

      Is there globalisation? Nation states still dominate the social and economic structures of this planet. But nation states are themselves a global order - a specific arrangement of a specific type of state. Globalisation only appears logical, if you see nation states as isolated islands, but that is not the historical reality.

      Supporters of the globalisation thesis claim, that a world of isolated nation states existed in the recent past. Perhaps before 1989, or more approximately, before 1950. They claim that these isolated nation states are now being eroded, in a global process. This thesis is often presented as a absolute truth, which globalisation researchers have discovered. Academic snobbism is important in sustaining globalisation research, especially since the thesis appeals to both the right and the left. People are considered stupid, if they question globalisation.

      Saskia Sassen, who uses globalisation as a "negative future" to promote a global civil society, summarises the logic. (In: Losing Control: Sovereignty in an Age of Globalization, Columbia University Press 1996).


      Economic globalization represents a major transformation in the territorial organization of economic activity and politico-economic power....The sovereignty of the modern state was concentrated in mutually exclusive territories and the concentration of sovereignty in nations...economic globalization has contributed to a denationalizing of national territory... But nations are not mutually exclusive. Every existing nation state, supports the division of the world into nation states. Even a total surrender of national sovereignty to another nation, does not de-nationalise territory. When nations re-unite, for instance, states can completely disappear. At some future date, Moldova (Moldavia) might accede to Romania. That would mean the state Moldova completely ceased to exist: but that would not mean the end of nations. In fact it would be a victory for the nationalistic 'Greater Romania' ideal. Another example: the Republic of Ireland has abandoned its claim to sovereignty over Northern Ireland. However, a future majority in Northern Ireland might wants to accede to the Republic of Ireland. In those circumstances, the United Kingdom has said it will abandon its claim to the territory. Yet, either way, there are still two nation states in the British Isles. The border might shift, but the nation state as such does not disappear in such cases.


      The relevant question, at global level, is whether the global order of nation states is disappearing - anywhere. And there is no collapse of the nation state, in the face of globalisation. Nation states have not suffered anything comparable to the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian or Ottoman empires. All that remains of these empires, are oversized palaces in Vienna and Istanbul. The rest of their institutions have completely disappeared: there is not a square millimetre of Habsburg or Ottoman territory left in Europe. There is no longer an Austro-Hungarian imperial army, or police, or courts, of universities. The nation states succeeded the multi-ethnic empires, and seized all their territory. The replacement was total.

      But where is the so-called 'collapse' of the nation state visible? There are very few places on earth where there are no institutions of a nation state - perhaps in Somalia, but that is not the result of globalization. If the world was truly 'globalised' then it would be full of disused national parliament buildings - and not a national army in sight. The world is not like that, and will not be like that, in the immediate future. In other words, 'globalisation' remains a hype - pure hype and not reality.

      Anti-nationalists know this, better than anyone else. So people who claim that 'globalisation' is eroding nations are in any case not anti-nationalists. At worst, the opposite: they are simply nationalists. The globalisation hype can be a form of nationalist propaganda.

      The popular globalisation myth

      A popular version of the globalisation myth has existed for about 10 years. It claims that until 1989, the world consisted of separate, sovereign, autonomous nation states, with separate histories. Then, borders collapsed, the internet appeared, but also the international Mafia. So now it is a dangerous world, but also perhaps full of opportunities.

      You can find this version, almost literally, in Ruud Lubbers' article The Globalization of Economy and Society (now offline):


      The term "globalization" implies that the becoming and making worldwide of various phenomena has accelerated at such a pace that it is giving rise to a variety of new phenomena. Globalization entails a quantitative shift of several autonomous national economies to a global marketplace for production, distribution, and technology. All this has resulted in the emergence of a worldwide confrontation of political, societal, and ethical insights...


      Lubbers was a former Netherlands premier, and is now UN High Commissioner for Refugees. He filled the time between these posts as a Professor of Globalization Studies at Tilburg University. Lubbers explains what caused the 'quantitative shift'...

      The far-reaching integration of electronics and computers on the one hand, and communication technology, on the other, led to what Toffler christened "the third wave." And thus today's world came into being....People everywhere were confronted with the effects of the emergence of modern communication technologies and the Sputnik, Soyuz, and Apollo heralded the birth of a new world. CNN and the Internet, global sourcing, electronic capital flows signalled the emergence of the information and communication age. It has been said that the bits provoke one world, accomplishing the globalization of information/communication and technology.

      The language of globalisation claims

      The globalisation myth has developed its own slang, related to themes in globalisation research...


      turmoil, chaos, breakdown, instability, disorder
      global, globalised, planetary, planetary order, global governance, world consciousness
      trans-state, transnational, cross-border, borderlands, transgression, boundary erosion, inter-cultural, transcultural
      multiple actors, multiplicity, multi-voiced, fragmented, break-up, splitting up
      flow, space of flows, trade volume, stream, link, network, linked by flows


      Here is an example of globalisation-speak from Global Cyberculture Reconsidered: Cyberspace, Identity, and the Global Informational City


      There are two forces at work in globalization: the spread of the Net internationally follows urban infrastructures, and nations around the world are cooperating in the creation of a global network economy by creating networks of globalized informational cities that require liberalized financial and trade policies.


      And the Globalization and World Cities research group declares:


      Our mission is to promote a different metageographical image of the world, a space of flows held together by a network of cities. There are a myriad of networks which make up our contemporary world, the Internet, for example, to which you are currently linked to, is an important example. We have chosen to focus upon the network of world cities because it is the most obvious concrete manifestation of a contemporary space of flows which can challenge traditional metageographies.


      This language is self-referential: it exists within the world of globalisation research. That is how they talk to one another. Like all slang, it establishes membership of a social group. It is not a guide to the real world.

      The logic and evidence of globalisation claims Suppose there was a global state. Suppose the 'Global Self-Sufficient Villages Party' won the global elections. It would implement its policies: it would make the world self-sufficient at local level. In the end, there would be a world of self-sufficient villages, with no inter-local trade - let alone inter-continental trade.

      Is this globalisation? Is this global? The answer must be yes, it is at least global. A global state implementing a global policy is global. It is perfectly logical for a global state or society to exist, without the conventional indicators of globalisation. A fully globalised, homogenous, world can be a world of autarkic communities - if that is the global political culture. That applies to any intermediate between autarky and full interaction. If the global norm is to trade 10% of gross National Product, then a fully globalised planet could exist where all states traded 10% of GNP. If the norm is 90%, then it would be 90%. There is no way to infer from the statistic alone, whether the planet is 'globalised' or not. Indicators such as trade volume and trade policy can even be used in logically contradictory ways.

      For example, if I discover that nation states are abandoning protectionist polices, is that evidence of globalisation? Supporters of the globalisation thesis will say, that nation states increasingly compete with all other nation states. Trade increases, and protectionism will be abandoned. So, they will say, the trend is evidence of globalisation. But I could equally claim, that protectionism is caused by increasing competition among nation states. So, I could say, that the abandonment of protectionism shows that globalisation has ended.

      But what if I discover a trend to protectionist polices? This time the globalisation fans will say, "logical, increasing competition means more protectionism." The conclusion will be reversed to suit the evidence. But I can do that as well. I could say, that protectionism is a symptom of the end of globalisation - after all, it limits trade.

      This is just one example of a large class of paradoxes. Many apparently solid statistical indicators of globalisation, can be used as evidence either way. And other evidence may point to the opposite conclusion. International air traffic is growing - but so are regional airlines. Cultural evidence is equally double-sided. The first books published were all in one language, Latin: since then publishing has become increasingly 'local', not global. The number of published languages has increased, not decreased. In the end, there is no point in detailed argument, about trade volumes, capital flows, and information flows. They will never conclusively establish globalisation.

      However, supporters of the globalisation thesis continue to quote fabricated and illogical 'evidence'. Any social or economic phenomenon is treated as possible 'evidence' of globalisation. If there is a Chinese restaurant in a town, it shows global culture. If these is no Chinese restaurant, it shows the town is lagging behind in the globalisation process.

      Global processes is deliberately confused with global erosion of borders. Trade among nations may be global: that does not mean nations are dissolving in trade. Recent trade flows are used as evidence of recent globalisation, but inter-continental trade has existed for thousands of years. Even the present pattern of all-continent trade is 200 years old. The supporters of the globalisation thesis use nominalist arguments: the label "globalisation" is attached to any cross-border phenomenon. If you call all animals 'Martians', then every day you will see evidence that the Martians have landed.

      The claim that there is a globalisation process is endlessly repeated, ignoring historical context. The claimed 'instrument of globalisation' varies from one decade to the next. Some people said the hot air balloon would end borders. But people said the same thing about the telegraph, the railway, the steam ship, wireless telegraphy, the airship, radio, air travel, television, pictures of the world from space, satellite television, CNN, and the Internet. Borders are still here: there are probably more border guards, than at any previous time in history.

      So belief in globalisation is like any other belief system. Facts are not necessarily relevant. Some adherents of globalisation share the characteristics of religious cults, especially cults which believe in the end of the world. These apocalyptic cults sometimes announce a date for the end of the world. When the world does not end, their members are not disillusioned: often their belief is reinforced. For the 'true believers' of globalisation, any event can reinforce the belief in globalisation - and nothing can contradict it. Those who do not believe in globalisation, are seen as inferior. Several times people called me "blind", for not believing in globalisation.

      The belief / myth / hype of globalisation is probably here for a long time. Belief systems disappear only slowly. As political legitimation, 'globalisation' is useful to many groups: its factual existence is certainly irrelevant in politics.

      The nation state

      Nation states are one of many possible forms of state. The very existence of a world of nation states, indicates some form of global order of nation states. What these nation states do - trade or no trade, flows or no flows - is irrelevant to that issue. What is already global can not logically be globalised: therefore there is no globalisation. The 'false premise' in the globalisation thesis is the nationalist claim, that nations are separate and particular entities. In fact they are a global and universalist structure: the functional equivalent of a nationalist world state.

      The world functions as if a nationalist world government had seized power in the last century, led by Mazzini and Garibaldi and friends. Most existing states were indeed established by nationalist groups. The idea presented in Structures of Nationalism is simple. Nationalists are not competing. They co-operate to maintain one (nationalist) world order and exclude others. The nation state is not a particularity, existing by itself in isolation, but part of a global design.

      Consider the issue of sovereignty and multinational corporations (TNC's). A world run by 180 global corporations would mean: no national sovereignty, no national parliaments, no national laws, no national armies. But equally, a world run by 180 nation states means: no women's sovereignty, no women's parliaments, no women's laws, no women's armies. A world run by global corporations is alternative to the world order of nation states. But that order itself is alternative, to a possible world order of gender states. A national parliament could be closed - just as the Austro-Hungarian imperial parliament closed - and replaced by gender parliaments.

      Of course, that idea is offensive to nationalists. For them not gender, but the nation, is the fundamental human social order. Therefore, they claim, it should be the unit of state formation: "one people, one government". This claim has no inherent validity - the slogan "one gender, one government" would be equally valid, in logical terms. But historically, nation states were established by logic anyway. Usually, they were a reaction against a former imperial or colonial order. A reaction against globalisation, real or imagined, might sustain the nation state for several more generations.

      The 'threat of globalisation' confers no existence rights on a nation state. It does not give national parliaments any more right to exist, than gender parliaments. A person A has no valid claims against person B, simply on the basis of threats from entity C. If the nation state was inherently good, there might be a moral obligation to support it. But no-one is obliged to support the nation state, simply because it is threatened by globalisation, or anything else. In any case, this comparison with a possible alternative world order only emphasises, that nation states have not been 'eroded'. No completely different world order has emerged - as different from the present world, as a world of gender states would be.

      If you ignore all these possible worlds, and just look at existing nations, then it is true that cross-border interaction seems important. If you close your eyes to everything except France and Germany, then all you see is France, Germany and Franco-German interaction. The whole universe shrinks to one issue: how much Franco-German interaction? Similarly, if you see the present order of 180 nation states as the only multi-state world order, then you see only two alternative worlds. You see either 180 nation states, or some form of global entity. The supporters of the globalisation thesis have shrunk their field of view in this way. They see 180 nation states, and the interactions among the 180 nation states, and conclude there is globalisation. It is a weak and false logic.

      Say globalisation, mean neoliberalism

      Most of the confusion about globalisation occurs when nation states pursue neoliberal policies. This is what Tony Blair means, when he talks about the "opportunities" of globalisation - his reaction to the Genoa summit protests. The neoliberal attitude to the national economy is more accurately described as neo-mercantilist. Neoliberals see the nation as an economic unit, competing with other similar units: they often compare the nation to a business firm. Neoliberal economic policies, within the nation state, are designed to meet the needs of this imaginary business - 'Great Britain Limited', 'Deutschland GmbH', 'BV Nederland'.

      This does not mean that the nation state is a business firm. That would be impossible within a liberal democracy anyway - it would require a totalitarian level of economic planning. Businesses are not run like nation states, for good reasons - and nation states can probably not be run like a business. Neoliberals also contradict themselves, by insisting that regions and cities should also compete with each other, like business firms. This would make a national economic policy impossible.

      What neoliberals promote is a set of social goals, a model of a society arranged for the benefit of the entrepreneur. This is usually called 'competitiveness', a favourite word for Tony Blair and other neoliberal politicians. Economists compile league tables, in which nations are ranked by competitiveness. But this does not mean that nation states are forced to be 'competitive' by some all-powerful global organisation. They are not even forced in a metaphorical sense, by the global market. The 'competitiveness' is an internal policy, a neoliberal social policy. It may not even be competitive. (If it was taken to the extremes suggested by some neoliberals, it would probably cause economic collapse).

      So when western political leaders speak positively of globalisation, this is usually what they are talking about. This is usually what the media are talking about, when they use the word 'globalisation'. It has nothing to do with the erosion of the nation state. It also has very little to do with classic market liberalism, which advocates unlimited competition between every single entrepreneur. Classic market liberals would call 'Great Britain Limited' a cartel.

      The ideology of 'competitiveness' has everything to do with nationalism. It is a modern version of the old nationalist insistence, that the whole nation should work together. It is a new form of jingoism, chauvinism, flag-waving and foreigner-bashing (particularly suited for Tony Blair). It is not in any way an indicator that a new global order has superseded the order of nation states, or that they have been colonised by global financial institutions.

      Who else says there is globalisation?

      Three groups have an interest in claiming that globalisation is a reality. Firstly, all kinds of nationalists: globalisation provides a clear enemy, to unite the national group.

      The western media image of globalisation is derived largely from anti-globalisation activists. Many are clearly economic nationalists. The opposition of North American labour unions (trade unions) to new free trade zones is an example. In the European Union this is less of an issue, partly because the present EU members have comparable economies, and partly because the EU is long established anyway. (In the EU, economic nationalism takes the form of opposition to EU enlargement, rather than opposition to the EU).

      Walden Bello, an anti-globalisation activist from the Philippines, has a comprehensive national alternative to globalisation, which he calls 'de-globalization':

      I am not talking about withdrawing from the international economy. I am speaking about reorienting our economies from production for export to the local market....

      - about creating a new production and exchange complex that includes community cooperatives, private enterprises, and state enterprises, and excludes transnational corporations (TNCs);
      - about enshrining the principle of subsidiarity in economic life by encouraging production of goods to take place at the community and national level...

      The Struggle for the Future

      This is more than simple protectionism. It implies that the State, business, and community organisations should coordinate their policies, in some form of corporatist society. Economic nationalism and corporatism are often associated: they appeal to business in vulnerable sectors of the economy. It is not true that business is uniformly pro-globalisation - any more than Turkish business uniformly supports EU membership. Even in advanced economies, entrepreneurs often have an interest in presenting globalisation as a threat.

      In western Europe, fear of globalisation is used to claim government aid for 'national industries'. Business likes subsidies, and appeals to national pride were a traditional way of getting them, long before the term 'globalisation' was used. Recently the approach has become more sophisticated: the subsidies go not just to one firm, but to whole sectors, or to a large part of the 'national economy'. The businessmen demand the subsidies, but say they are protecting the national standard of living.

      However, even the living standards of Britons or Germans are no reason to support the nation state Britain, or the nation state Germany. Activists often claim, that transnational corporations "erode the ability of nation states to regulate their own economies". That does not oblige anyone to support any nation state either. Remember: the nation states themselves eroded the former multi-ethnic empires. That does not oblige anyone to restore these empires.

      Nationalists have a long history of appealing to external threats, to enforce national unity. The nation must unite and work together, they said - to defeat the Hun, or the Bolshevik threat, or the Yellow Peril, or the enemy within the gates, or the Cali cartel, or Osama bin Ladin. Appeals to unite in the face of 'globalisation' are in the same dishonourable category. Economic-nationalist propaganda is in the worst nationalist traditions.

      A second group claims, that there are good and bad forms of globalisation. They then cast themselves in the role of the 'good globalisers'. Advocates of a global civil society claim it provides the opposition to global neoliberalism. In reality, 'global civil society' is a loose coalition of western (and western-funded) NGO's, who dream of being subsidised by global taxes.

      The third group are the normative globalists: the people who want a global society. Usually they want a global state, although they may not call it that. They have an interest in presenting globalisation as an inevitable historical development. This is historicism - political demands based on historical process, real or imagined.

      Any global state would have the basic structure of a nation state: un

  12. Not there yet by grumling · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I recently spent some time researching cyclometers, and came across these. Compared to what is out there from cateye and vetta, these just can't compare. The Palm devices are much larger and really don't check enough to be useful for real training. Cadence (pedal revs/min) and heart rate are essential for me, if for nothing else, to keep from getting bored. I use a GPS for the rest. I'm sure someday they'll have it right, and no one will be using dedicated cyclometers, but at this time, it is tough to beat one of the higher end cyclometers.

    --
    "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    1. Re:Not there yet by Crapflooder · · Score: -1

      No Globalisation
      by Paul Treanor


      Logically, there can be no process of globalisation in a world order of nation states. A world order is already global, by definition. The logic of 'globalisation' is false, but the idea has become an ideology. For different reasons, different people claim that there is globalisation. The word "globalisation" started as an academic and media hype. Just when it was going out of fashion, the 1999 Seattle summit revived media attention for the issue. Pro-globalisation and anti-globalisation ideologies (and movements) have emerged. That fact remains, that the underlying 'globalisation' process simply does not exist. People are often talking about something else - about neoliberalism or about normative globalism, for instance.

      Is there globalisation? Nation states still dominate the social and economic structures of this planet. But nation states are themselves a global order - a specific arrangement of a specific type of state. Globalisation only appears logical, if you see nation states as isolated islands, but that is not the historical reality.

      Supporters of the globalisation thesis claim, that a world of isolated nation states existed in the recent past. Perhaps before 1989, or more approximately, before 1950. They claim that these isolated nation states are now being eroded, in a global process. This thesis is often presented as a absolute truth, which globalisation researchers have discovered. Academic snobbism is important in sustaining globalisation research, especially since the thesis appeals to both the right and the left. People are considered stupid, if they question globalisation.

      Saskia Sassen, who uses globalisation as a "negative future" to promote a global civil society, summarises the logic. (In: Losing Control: Sovereignty in an Age of Globalization, Columbia University Press 1996).


      Economic globalization represents a major transformation in the territorial organization of economic activity and politico-economic power....The sovereignty of the modern state was concentrated in mutually exclusive territories and the concentration of sovereignty in nations...economic globalization has contributed to a denationalizing of national territory... But nations are not mutually exclusive. Every existing nation state, supports the division of the world into nation states. Even a total surrender of national sovereignty to another nation, does not de-nationalise territory. When nations re-unite, for instance, states can completely disappear. At some future date, Moldova (Moldavia) might accede to Romania. That would mean the state Moldova completely ceased to exist: but that would not mean the end of nations. In fact it would be a victory for the nationalistic 'Greater Romania' ideal. Another example: the Republic of Ireland has abandoned its claim to sovereignty over Northern Ireland. However, a future majority in Northern Ireland might wants to accede to the Republic of Ireland. In those circumstances, the United Kingdom has said it will abandon its claim to the territory. Yet, either way, there are still two nation states in the British Isles. The border might shift, but the nation state as such does not disappear in such cases.


      The relevant question, at global level, is whether the global order of nation states is disappearing - anywhere. And there is no collapse of the nation state, in the face of globalisation. Nation states have not suffered anything comparable to the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian or Ottoman empires. All that remains of these empires, are oversized palaces in Vienna and Istanbul. The rest of their institutions have completely disappeared: there is not a square millimetre of Habsburg or Ottoman territory left in Europe. There is no longer an Austro-Hungarian imperial army, or police, or courts, of universities. The nation states succeeded the multi-ethnic empires, and seized all their territory. The replacement was total.

      But where is the so-called 'collapse' of the nation state visible? There are very few places on earth where there are no institutions of a nation state - perhaps in Somalia, but that is not the result of globalization. If the world was truly 'globalised' then it would be full of disused national parliament buildings - and not a national army in sight. The world is not like that, and will not be like that, in the immediate future. In other words, 'globalisation' remains a hype - pure hype and not reality.

      Anti-nationalists know this, better than anyone else. So people who claim that 'globalisation' is eroding nations are in any case not anti-nationalists. At worst, the opposite: they are simply nationalists. The globalisation hype can be a form of nationalist propaganda.

      The popular globalisation myth

      A popular version of the globalisation myth has existed for about 10 years. It claims that until 1989, the world consisted of separate, sovereign, autonomous nation states, with separate histories. Then, borders collapsed, the internet appeared, but also the international Mafia. So now it is a dangerous world, but also perhaps full of opportunities.

      You can find this version, almost literally, in Ruud Lubbers' article The Globalization of Economy and Society (now offline):


      The term "globalization" implies that the becoming and making worldwide of various phenomena has accelerated at such a pace that it is giving rise to a variety of new phenomena. Globalization entails a quantitative shift of several autonomous national economies to a global marketplace for production, distribution, and technology. All this has resulted in the emergence of a worldwide confrontation of political, societal, and ethical insights...


      Lubbers was a former Netherlands premier, and is now UN High Commissioner for Refugees. He filled the time between these posts as a Professor of Globalization Studies at Tilburg University. Lubbers explains what caused the 'quantitative shift'...

      The far-reaching integration of electronics and computers on the one hand, and communication technology, on the other, led to what Toffler christened "the third wave." And thus today's world came into being....People everywhere were confronted with the effects of the emergence of modern communication technologies and the Sputnik, Soyuz, and Apollo heralded the birth of a new world. CNN and the Internet, global sourcing, electronic capital flows signalled the emergence of the information and communication age. It has been said that the bits provoke one world, accomplishing the globalization of information/communication and technology.

      The language of globalisation claims

      The globalisation myth has developed its own slang, related to themes in globalisation research...


      turmoil, chaos, breakdown, instability, disorder
      global, globalised, planetary, planetary order, global governance, world consciousness
      trans-state, transnational, cross-border, borderlands, transgression, boundary erosion, inter-cultural, transcultural
      multiple actors, multiplicity, multi-voiced, fragmented, break-up, splitting up
      flow, space of flows, trade volume, stream, link, network, linked by flows


      Here is an example of globalisation-speak from Global Cyberculture Reconsidered: Cyberspace, Identity, and the Global Informational City


      There are two forces at work in globalization: the spread of the Net internationally follows urban infrastructures, and nations around the world are cooperating in the creation of a global network economy by creating networks of globalized informational cities that require liberalized financial and trade policies.


      And the Globalization and World Cities research group declares:


      Our mission is to promote a different metageographical image of the world, a space of flows held together by a network of cities. There are a myriad of networks which make up our contemporary world, the Internet, for example, to which you are currently linked to, is an important example. We have chosen to focus upon the network of world cities because it is the most obvious concrete manifestation of a contemporary space of flows which can challenge traditional metageographies.


      This language is self-referential: it exists within the world of globalisation research. That is how they talk to one another. Like all slang, it establishes membership of a social group. It is not a guide to the real world.

      The logic and evidence of globalisation claims Suppose there was a global state. Suppose the 'Global Self-Sufficient Villages Party' won the global elections. It would implement its policies: it would make the world self-sufficient at local level. In the end, there would be a world of self-sufficient villages, with no inter-local trade - let alone inter-continental trade.

      Is this globalisation? Is this global? The answer must be yes, it is at least global. A global state implementing a global policy is global. It is perfectly logical for a global state or society to exist, without the conventional indicators of globalisation. A fully globalised, homogenous, world can be a world of autarkic communities - if that is the global political culture. That applies to any intermediate between autarky and full interaction. If the global norm is to trade 10% of gross National Product, then a fully globalised planet could exist where all states traded 10% of GNP. If the norm is 90%, then it would be 90%. There is no way to infer from the statistic alone, whether the planet is 'globalised' or not. Indicators such as trade volume and trade policy can even be used in logically contradictory ways.

      For example, if I discover that nation states are abandoning protectionist polices, is that evidence of globalisation? Supporters of the globalisation thesis will say, that nation states increasingly compete with all other nation states. Trade increases, and protectionism will be abandoned. So, they will say, the trend is evidence of globalisation. But I could equally claim, that protectionism is caused by increasing competition among nation states. So, I could say, that the abandonment of protectionism shows that globalisation has ended.

      But what if I discover a trend to protectionist polices? This time the globalisation fans will say, "logical, increasing competition means more protectionism." The conclusion will be reversed to suit the evidence. But I can do that as well. I could say, that protectionism is a symptom of the end of globalisation - after all, it limits trade.

      This is just one example of a large class of paradoxes. Many apparently solid statistical indicators of globalisation, can be used as evidence either way. And other evidence may point to the opposite conclusion. International air traffic is growing - but so are regional airlines. Cultural evidence is equally double-sided. The first books published were all in one language, Latin: since then publishing has become increasingly 'local', not global. The number of published languages has increased, not decreased. In the end, there is no point in detailed argument, about trade volumes, capital flows, and information flows. They will never conclusively establish globalisation.

      However, supporters of the globalisation thesis continue to quote fabricated and illogical 'evidence'. Any social or economic phenomenon is treated as possible 'evidence' of globalisation. If there is a Chinese restaurant in a town, it shows global culture. If these is no Chinese restaurant, it shows the town is lagging behind in the globalisation process.

      Global processes is deliberately confused with global erosion of borders. Trade among nations may be global: that does not mean nations are dissolving in trade. Recent trade flows are used as evidence of recent globalisation, but inter-continental trade has existed for thousands of years. Even the present pattern of all-continent trade is 200 years old. The supporters of the globalisation thesis use nominalist arguments: the label "globalisation" is attached to any cross-border phenomenon. If you call all animals 'Martians', then every day you will see evidence that the Martians have landed.

      The claim that there is a globalisation process is endlessly repeated, ignoring historical context. The claimed 'instrument of globalisation' varies from one decade to the next. Some people said the hot air balloon would end borders. But people said the same thing about the telegraph, the railway, the steam ship, wireless telegraphy, the airship, radio, air travel, television, pictures of the world from space, satellite television, CNN, and the Internet. Borders are still here: there are probably more border guards, than at any previous time in history.

      So belief in globalisation is like any other belief system. Facts are not necessarily relevant. Some adherents of globalisation share the characteristics of religious cults, especially cults which believe in the end of the world. These apocalyptic cults sometimes announce a date for the end of the world. When the world does not end, their members are not disillusioned: often their belief is reinforced. For the 'true believers' of globalisation, any event can reinforce the belief in globalisation - and nothing can contradict it. Those who do not believe in globalisation, are seen as inferior. Several times people called me "blind", for not believing in globalisation.

      The belief / myth / hype of globalisation is probably here for a long time. Belief systems disappear only slowly. As political legitimation, 'globalisation' is useful to many groups: its factual existence is certainly irrelevant in politics.

      The nation state

      Nation states are one of many possible forms of state. The very existence of a world of nation states, indicates some form of global order of nation states. What these nation states do - trade or no trade, flows or no flows - is irrelevant to that issue. What is already global can not logically be globalised: therefore there is no globalisation. The 'false premise' in the globalisation thesis is the nationalist claim, that nations are separate and particular entities. In fact they are a global and universalist structure: the functional equivalent of a nationalist world state.

      The world functions as if a nationalist world government had seized power in the last century, led by Mazzini and Garibaldi and friends. Most existing states were indeed established by nationalist groups. The idea presented in Structures of Nationalism is simple. Nationalists are not competing. They co-operate to maintain one (nationalist) world order and exclude others. The nation state is not a particularity, existing by itself in isolation, but part of a global design.

      Consider the issue of sovereignty and multinational corporations (TNC's). A world run by 180 global corporations would mean: no national sovereignty, no national parliaments, no national laws, no national armies. But equally, a world run by 180 nation states means: no women's sovereignty, no women's parliaments, no women's laws, no women's armies. A world run by global corporations is alternative to the world order of nation states. But that order itself is alternative, to a possible world order of gender states. A national parliament could be closed - just as the Austro-Hungarian imperial parliament closed - and replaced by gender parliaments.

      Of course, that idea is offensive to nationalists. For them not gender, but the nation, is the fundamental human social order. Therefore, they claim, it should be the unit of state formation: "one people, one government". This claim has no inherent validity - the slogan "one gender, one government" would be equally valid, in logical terms. But historically, nation states were established by logic anyway. Usually, they were a reaction against a former imperial or colonial order. A reaction against globalisation, real or imagined, might sustain the nation state for several more generations.

      The 'threat of globalisation' confers no existence rights on a nation state. It does not give national parliaments any more right to exist, than gender parliaments. A person A has no valid claims against person B, simply on the basis of threats from entity C. If the nation state was inherently good, there might be a moral obligation to support it. But no-one is obliged to support the nation state, simply because it is threatened by globalisation, or anything else. In any case, this comparison with a possible alternative world order only emphasises, that nation states have not been 'eroded'. No completely different world order has emerged - as different from the present world, as a world of gender states would be.

      If you ignore all these possible worlds, and just look at existing nations, then it is true that cross-border interaction seems important. If you close your eyes to everything except France and Germany, then all you see is France, Germany and Franco-German interaction. The whole universe shrinks to one issue: how much Franco-German interaction? Similarly, if you see the present order of 180 nation states as the only multi-state world order, then you see only two alternative worlds. You see either 180 nation states, or some form of global entity. The supporters of the globalisation thesis have shrunk their field of view in this way. They see 180 nation states, and the interactions among the 180 nation states, and conclude there is globalisation. It is a weak and false logic.

      Say globalisation, mean neoliberalism

      Most of the confusion about globalisation occurs when nation states pursue neoliberal policies. This is what Tony Blair means, when he talks about the "opportunities" of globalisation - his reaction to the Genoa summit protests. The neoliberal attitude to the national economy is more accurately described as neo-mercantilist. Neoliberals see the nation as an economic unit, competing with other similar units: they often compare the nation to a business firm. Neoliberal economic policies, within the nation state, are designed to meet the needs of this imaginary business - 'Great Britain Limited', 'Deutschland GmbH', 'BV Nederland'.

      This does not mean that the nation state is a business firm. That would be impossible within a liberal democracy anyway - it would require a totalitarian level of economic planning. Businesses are not run like nation states, for good reasons - and nation states can probably not be run like a business. Neoliberals also contradict themselves, by insisting that regions and cities should also compete with each other, like business firms. This would make a national economic policy impossible.

      What neoliberals promote is a set of social goals, a model of a society arranged for the benefit of the entrepreneur. This is usually called 'competitiveness', a favourite word for Tony Blair and other neoliberal politicians. Economists compile league tables, in which nations are ranked by competitiveness. But this does not mean that nation states are forced to be 'competitive' by some all-powerful global organisation. They are not even forced in a metaphorical sense, by the global market. The 'competitiveness' is an internal policy, a neoliberal social policy. It may not even be competitive. (If it was taken to the extremes suggested by some neoliberals, it would probably cause economic collapse).

      So when western political leaders speak positively of globalisation, this is usually what they are talking about. This is usually what the media are talking about, when they use the word 'globalisation'. It has nothing to do with the erosion of the nation state. It also has very little to do with classic market liberalism, which advocates unlimited competition between every single entrepreneur. Classic market liberals would call 'Great Britain Limited' a cartel.

      The ideology of 'competitiveness' has everything to do with nationalism. It is a modern version of the old nationalist insistence, that the whole nation should work together. It is a new form of jingoism, chauvinism, flag-waving and foreigner-bashing (particularly suited for Tony Blair). It is not in any way an indicator that a new global order has superseded the order of nation states, or that they have been colonised by global financial institutions.

      Who else says there is globalisation?

      Three groups have an interest in claiming that globalisation is a reality. Firstly, all kinds of nationalists: globalisation provides a clear enemy, to unite the national group.

      The western media image of globalisation is derived largely from anti-globalisation activists. Many are clearly economic nationalists. The opposition of North American labour unions (trade unions) to new free trade zones is an example. In the European Union this is less of an issue, partly because the present EU members have comparable economies, and partly because the EU is long established anyway. (In the EU, economic nationalism takes the form of opposition to EU enlargement, rather than opposition to the EU).

      Walden Bello, an anti-globalisation activist from the Philippines, has a comprehensive national alternative to globalisation, which he calls 'de-globalization':

      I am not talking about withdrawing from the international economy. I am speaking about reorienting our economies from production for export to the local market....

      - about creating a new production and exchange complex that includes community cooperatives, private enterprises, and state enterprises, and excludes transnational corporations (TNCs);
      - about enshrining the principle of subsidiarity in economic life by encouraging production of goods to take place at the community and national level...

      The Struggle for the Future

      This is more than simple protectionism. It implies that the State, business, and community organisations should coordinate their policies, in some form of corporatist society. Economic nationalism and corporatism are often associated: they appeal to business in vulnerable sectors of the economy. It is not true that business is uniformly pro-globalisation - any more than Turkish business uniformly supports EU membership. Even in advanced economies, entrepreneurs often have an interest in presenting globalisation as a threat.

      In western Europe, fear of globalisation is used to claim government aid for 'national industries'. Business likes subsidies, and appeals to national pride were a traditional way of getting them, long before the term 'globalisation' was used. Recently the approach has become more sophisticated: the subsidies go not just to one firm, but to whole sectors, or to a large part of the 'national economy'. The businessmen demand the subsidies, but say they are protecting the national standard of living.

      However, even the living standards of Britons or Germans are no reason to support the nation state Britain, or the nation state Germany. Activists often claim, that transnational corporations "erode the ability of nation states to regulate their own economies". That does not oblige anyone to support any nation state either. Remember: the nation states themselves eroded the former multi-ethnic empires. That does not oblige anyone to restore these empires.

      Nationalists have a long history of appealing to external threats, to enforce national unity. The nation must unite and work together, they said - to defeat the Hun, or the Bolshevik threat, or the Yellow Peril, or the enemy within the gates, or the Cali cartel, or Osama bin Ladin. Appeals to unite in the face of 'globalisation' are in the same dishonourable category. Economic-nationalist propaganda is in the worst nationalist traditions.

      A second group claims, that there are good and bad forms of globalisation. They then cast themselves in the role of the 'good globalisers'. Advocates of a global civil society claim it provides the opposition to global neoliberalism. In reality, 'global civil society' is a loose coalition of western (and western-funded) NGO's, who dream of being subsidised by global taxes.

      The third group are the normative globalists: the people who want a global society. Usually they want a global state, although they may not call it that. They have an interest in presenting globalisation as an inevitable historical development. This is historicism - political demands based on historical process, real or imagined.

      Any global state would have the basic structure of a nation state: unified constitution, laws, parliament, administration, and executive powers. This normative globalism is simply a form of pan-nationalism. For now, the exact form of world government remains a hobby for International Relations theorists: but the claimed process of globalisation can be used to legitimise the idea.

  13. DESTROY ART OR SHIP IT TO THE USA!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    SHOULD ART BE DESTROYED?

    by Paul Treanor

    Art, whatever the definition, has certain characteristics. It is equivalent to an entity, perpetuating itself across generations. As a result, it is permanent. Art also implies certain value claims, about the precedence of accumulative creativity over destruction. Permanence and accumulation cannot be ethically legitimised. In practice, there is a stable geo-cultural structure, of ethnic and national art. This structure is not ethically legitimised. The best response is a territorial separation of art.

    KABUL, March 1 2001 (AFP via Yahoo News)

    Afghanistan's ruling Taliban authorities said Thursday they have started destroying all statues in the country, including the world's tallest standing Buddha statue in the central province of Bamiyan.

    "The work started about five hours ago but I do not know how much of it (the Bamiyan Buddhas) has been destroyed," Taliban Information and Culture Minister Qudratullah Jamal told AFP.

    "It will be destroyed by every means. All the statues are being destroyed."

    The poor, the weak and the oppressed do not speak in defence of art. The voice of art is the voice of privilege. But if that was the only defect of art, then equality would legitimise art. There is not just privilege, there is eternal privilege, for art continues. Art is ancient tradition: worse than privilege. Is it not time to destroy it?

    Art is wrong because it is the past, because it perpetuates itself, because it is transgenerational, because it is culture, and because it requires the suppression of anti-art to exist.

    People argue about what art is. High art is still contrasted to popular culture. In the 1970's some class theories opposed elitist art. However, in Britain, where Art an Enemy of the People was published in 1978, the response to "high art" was not rejection. It was the demand for subsidies - for community art, minority art, women's art, or art of colour. A similar pattern applies all over western Europe. The existence of art is not an issue. Policy simply accepts art: this is true for artists, for individual governments, and for the European Union. A policy consensus implies a definitional consensus.

    Despite the apparent disunity about what constitutes high art or authentic art, there is a deep negative consensus about its nature. This negative consensus is common to all modern societies. Some things are not art, never:

    a trans-Sahel railway
    state formation
    justice

    a single European currency.

    Seen from this perspective, it is the agreement about Art which is remarkable. Evidently there is something called art: and so to its defects.

    The first defect of art is the antiquity of art. Some art is recent, of course, but there is no planned future art. In urban planning, for instance, there are those who plan cities which are not yet built, and those who study urban history. In art, however, there is only art history: art is past-oriented, almost by definition. Art is tens of thousands of years old. There is an immense volume of art from the past, even though most works of art are destroyed deliberately (of that, more later). The sacrality of art is a sacrality of the past.

    Art perpetuates itself. True, this is a reification, but it is an accurate one. It is the actions of people which perpetuate art: but the effect for the opponents of art is as if art defended itself. I will use here exactly the same metaphor and analogy, that I used to describe the defects of sustainability, the ethic of eternal structures.

    Compare the lives of two twins, born in identical circumstances. However, one is pro-art, the other is anti-art. The pro-art twin can go to art school, or study art history. There is no equivalent for the anti-art twin: no school of art incineration. Great social pressure to accept art is applied to one twin. No similar pressure to accept art-destruction is applied to the other twin. Because art is a core value in all existing societies, the social and employment opportunities of the anti-art twin will be limited. It is also the pro-art twin who is more likely to be elected or appointed to political office.

    The value attached to art limits the opportunity of its opponents to take action against it. In this way art is a self-preserving structure. It is like a religion, whose adherents systematically discriminate non-believers: if such a religion is in a majority, it will constantly improve its position of power.

    The strength and functioning of this self-preserving structure can be appreciated, by imagining that there was no art, and no pro-art structures. Transferring from an art-free world into the existing world, can be compared to transferring from this world, into a world objectionably different. Cannibalism is a useful characteristic for this comparison, because it is almost universally taboo. Being transferred into a cannibal world, from this world, would be extremely unpleasant for most people. They would be forced to accept that something they abhor is a normal part of society: that there is apparently no possibility of reform, since everyone accepts it as normal. This is the situation for opponents of art in the existing world.

    Art also perpetuates itself in a more indirect way. Art is often described as human endeavour or achievement, and it is indeed a product of human activity. People are encouraged to consider art as a valued activity, to the exclusion of other activity. In many cultures it is regarded as a high form of achievement: that in itself is a valuing of conservatism. Artists strive to produce good art, but what they produce is art, because the activity takes place only in an art framework, a framework that already exists. It is accurate to say that art is conformity in itself, since artists must conform to the norm of what art is. That norm will vary across cultures and in time, but only in the limiting case that everything is accepted as art, does it cease to be restrictive. In practice, creative approaches to non-art areas are often socially un-accepted, or considered strange.

    Art is transgenerational and open-ended. It perpetuates itself in the structural form described above, but art cannot be otherwise. So long as art is in opposition to iconoclasm, for instance, then there is a difference in the value socially ascribed to activities. In almost all cases (and certainly in modern societies) the accepted pattern is, that creation takes place by accumulation only. Iconoclasm (in the broad sense of art destruction) is defined as a non-creative act.

    There is no inherent logical basis for the restriction of creativity to accumulation. However, it is the form art takes, and that form is socially accepted. Although there are millions of paintings already, painting a new one is defined as a creative activity. Reducing the existing stock is not. Destruction is not considered of equal value to creation.

    On the contrary, destruction of art is considered a crime, and a sign of mental illness. Entering a museum and destroying a painting is considered shocking. Such acts are widely reported in the media, if they affect well-known works of art. This cannot be logically derived from a sacred status. In religious activity, sacred is not always permanent. Sacrificial animals were killed in some religions, offerings were burnt. It would be logically possible to treat art like this, but that does not occur. Art is not just sacred, its own accumulation is sacred, its permanence is sacred.

    The continuance of art is therefore inherent in art. Art is for ever. That which can not end, is wrong, and must be ended. Permanence of any entity constitutes a claim to all time for its existence, specifically against its non-existence. Claims to time are contra-ethical or morally arbitrary: one state (existence of art) is favoured over another (non-existence of art) merely because it happened to exist first. It is possible to claim value for firstness or primacy (as nationalist organisations of indigenous peoples do), but this cannot be logically derived. It is itself an arbitrary value.

    The transmission of art also requires, that injustice be done to done who oppose it. Their opposition is valid, since there is no moral ground for the permanence of art, yet they are discriminated against, as indicated above. Some employers, perhaps almost all, would refuse a job to anyone who openly advocated the destruction of art. If such injustice is a necessary condition of art, and there is no other legitimation of its existence, then the existence of art is an injustice, and should be terminated.

    Just or unjust, self-perpetuating cycles and transgenerational structures, are contra-ethical. Art perpetuates itself, by accumulation, and the transmission of the value of this accumulation. Cultures include, over generations, reverence for the permanence of art. More than this, art perpetuates the transmission of culture including itself. Art is a central aspect of many cultures.

    This permanence of art has been described here in abstract terms. In practice some real destruction of art does take place. The place of art in culture determines this: real art is ethnic art, or national art. Art that disappears, has lost its central place in an existing culture - usually because that culture itself has disappeared. The second part of this article, about cultures and art, is less abstract and more political.

    There exists a geo-cultural structure, approximately corresponding to geopolitical structures. In practice, people refer daily to English culture, or French culture, to ancient Egyptian art, to Brazilian art, or to the art of the Islamic world. The entities of this geo-cultural structure may be cultures of nation states, of ethnic groups, of regions, or of larger entities called world-cultures or civilisations. They may overlap, in fact they usually do, but that does not mean there is no structure.

    The complexity of culture is sometimes used to deny its rigid and structural nature. However, internal complexity can be great, and yet exclude external complexity. The possible moves in a game of chess are astronomically large, yet all chess games are chess games.

    Consider a simple model, with unitary cultures of tribes. Tribe A invades the land of tribe B. Soon, within culture B there are pro-A collaborative cultural tendencies, there are anti-A "B nationalists", there are A+B "multi-culturalists", their opponents in A, and B, who oppose cultural mixing, and B revanchists. The land of A+B then invades the land of C. Now, in this land C, there pro-A collaborators, pro-B collaborators, pro A+B collaborators. There are anti-A "C nationalists", anti-B "C nationalists", and anti A+B "C nationalists". And more: even at this level, the multiplying combinations exceed simple factorials.

    In the past there were thousands of cultures, associated with thousand of peoples. By some estimates, there still are. Combinations of their interactions can generate an immense diversity of culture. Yet, none of that culture will be anything other than a combination of unitary cultures of geopolitical entities.

    There is every reason to believe that this is an accurate model of human culture and art: apparent diversity is hiding a huge range of possibilities which do not fit the existing geo-cultural model. This applies to art as well. The implication of this is, that the models of culture developed in anthropology in the 1940's and 1950's are accurate. (In fact these models reflect the general use of national or ethnic terms to describe culture).

    These models were often linked to the idea of culture growth and decay, and similar organic or life-cycle metaphors. Their basis, however, was the idea of a unitary culture corresponding to some geopolitical entity. A. L. Kroeber's 1944 Configurations of Culture Growth is a classic work of this kind. In 1959 Rushton Coulborn could still take this approach to cultures or civilisations:


    The style of a civilization is perceived as its aesthetic aspect: it is exhibited in everything the society produces and does, pre-eminently in its arts, but also in its thought, its politics, its institutions, its traditions, and in all its ways. It is possible to qualify a society's style, to comment upon it, to judge it even, yet hardly to describe it. It is the Chineseness" of what is Chinese, the "Egyptianness" of what is Egyptian, the "Westernness of what is Western. Since that time, this approach has disappeared from mainstream anthropology, only to reappear in the last 10 years, under the influence of ethnic studies. An Afro-centric approach to art history, for instance, implies almost by definition a geo-cultural structure.


    Why pretend, that there is no such a thing as African art, or English art? Partly because such approaches were discredited by their association with Nazi Germany, or at least with Oswald Spengler and organic-social models of cultural history. But it was a common approach to history in the 1920's and 1930s, and is now "rehabilitated" by the interest in ethnicity and identity. The model is cyclically in and out of academic fashion.

    In any case, this approach is still, and always has been, the accepted approach in art history. Any introduction to art history (for students in Europe) will present the standard sequence of styles in Europe: Romanesque, gothic, renaissance, baroque, rococo, neo-classicism. After that comes a section on Islamic Art, or Oriental Art, which are assumed to have their own style sequence. In this case, the academic wisdom seems to be right.

    In the end it cannot be proved that there is a geo-cultural structure of this kind: that is too much a question of interpretation. However, it does seem extremely difficult to take the opposite position, that no culture or art is in any way associated with any particular people, culture, or territory.

    In turn, this suggests an explanation of art: it is hyper-ethnic. Art is that within a culture which most approaches the core of that culture, and is least accessible to outsiders. Art is the visible soul of the people, just as nationalists say. The question is, whether that gives it existence rights. It is here that the manipulation of art-historical theory in defence of art must be noted. If art is associated with peoples, it can be associated with their state, and so with the policies of that state - which may be unacceptable for many. Yet art never suffers from attribution of guilt by association: definitions are manipulated, to absolve it.

    If a person who is clearly a German Nazi, insists on the existence of a German art, and indicates clearly which works of art are German, what is in that circumstance anti-Nazism? The non-Nazi defenders of art deny the truth of the claims: they say the possession of art must be disputed. They would probably say, that in this case anti-Nazism consists in claiming that art belongs to all humanity: that it is universal. This opposition between Nazism and universality cannot, however, justify the existence of art.

    The alternative anti-Nazi position is to accept the claims as true, and destroy the German art, which the Nazi person has so conveniently listed. Not just Nazi Germans produce such specifications: there are official lists of national art heritage, in most states in Europe. They are not intended for the convenience of anti-nationalist iconoclasts, but they can serve that purpose.

    If art is national, then it can have no legitimacy other than within the values of nationalism. If all art is national then it is legitimate to destroy it, if anti-nationalism is itself legitimate. This legitimacy of destruction extends beyond nation states, to a geo-cultural structure in general. A geo-cultural structure is merely one of many possible structures. The present structure is complex, but not self-legitimising. It is legitimate to oppose pan-Africanism as a form of nationalism, and for instance, to destroy African art for that goal. Equally, it is legitimate to oppose a geo-cultural planetary structure that includes all art, and in doing so to destroy all art.

    Why not? Art is being destroyed all the time. So long as there has been art, it has been destroyed. In reality, the sacrality of art applies mainly to "our art", not to "their art". If pan-Africanism, in 10 years time, is regarded as a form of imperialism oppressing the regional identities of the continent, then perhaps people will burn portraits of Nkrumah. 20 years ago, statues of Lenin were art in part of Berlin. Now they are considered "propaganda of the unjust SED state". 60 years ago, statues of Hitler were art in Berlin: now public display of any Nazi symbol is illegal. Today, art in Germany means for instance statues of Konrad Adenauer, the pro-western post-war Chancellor.

    The only constant seems to be, that art serves privilege, the nation state, the powerful, the established, the unjust. In general, art serves the existing, which is exactly what is consistent with a self-perpetuating social structure.

    It is acceptable to oppose art in general, and specific national, regional, world-cultural, or civilisational art. However, there is no wide support for the break-up of the geo-cultural structure. The values of that structure itself are incompatible with its reform or abolition. It can however be limited in its effects.

    I therefore propose territorial separation of art. Formally, the best course would be to destroy existing art, then choose if the planet was to be art-provided or art-free. However, there is no prospect of any global agreement on this. Art will be in opposition to non-art, inherently.

    Specifically, I propose that the United States of America should become a zone of art. The existing cultural preference in the USA for collecting art, (especially from Europe) should be expanded into a prime function of state.

    Art should be transferred from Europe to the USA, beginning with the art listed in national heritage lists, and with recognised European heritage. I propose as an initial step, the transfer of the Mona Lisa, the best known European artwork, to the USA. The Mona Lisa is old, and heritage. It is better, that the past should burden the USA, than burden Europe. All artists, and those who wish to continue employment in the art sector, should be transferred to the USA.

    Any attempt at such a transfer would probably result in military intervention in support of art, perhaps by the USA. However, the nature of such a military intervention is outside the scope of this article. In any case, it is probably true that, given the fundamental opposition between art and its destruction, military conflict is inevitable in the long term.

    Taylor, R. Art an Enemy of the People. Hassocks: Harvester 1978.
    Kroeber, A. L. Configurations of Culture Growth. Berkeley: University of California Press 1944.
    Coulborn, R. The Origin of Civilized Societies. Prin

  14. Cool by SkewlD00d · · Score: 1

    Though I can ride w/o hands, I'd probably crash playing chess or simcity on my way to school. Davis has way too many bikes. =P

    "Not another bike distraction!!!"

    --
    The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
    1. Re:Cool by Crapflooder · · Score: -1

      SHOULD ART BE DESTROYED?

      by Paul Treanor

      Art, whatever the definition, has certain characteristics. It is equivalent to an entity, perpetuating itself across generations. As a result, it is permanent. Art also implies certain value claims, about the precedence of accumulative creativity over destruction. Permanence and accumulation cannot be ethically legitimised. In practice, there is a stable geo-cultural structure, of ethnic and national art. This structure is not ethically legitimised. The best response is a territorial separation of art.

      KABUL, March 1 2001 (AFP via Yahoo News)

      Afghanistan's ruling Taliban authorities said Thursday they have started destroying all statues in the country, including the world's tallest standing Buddha statue in the central province of Bamiyan.

      "The work started about five hours ago but I do not know how much of it (the Bamiyan Buddhas) has been destroyed," Taliban Information and Culture Minister Qudratullah Jamal told AFP.

      "It will be destroyed by every means. All the statues are being destroyed."

      The poor, the weak and the oppressed do not speak in defence of art. The voice of art is the voice of privilege. But if that was the only defect of art, then equality would legitimise art. There is not just privilege, there is eternal privilege, for art continues. Art is ancient tradition: worse than privilege. Is it not time to destroy it?

      Art is wrong because it is the past, because it perpetuates itself, because it is transgenerational, because it is culture, and because it requires the suppression of anti-art to exist.

      People argue about what art is. High art is still contrasted to popular culture. In the 1970's some class theories opposed elitist art. However, in Britain, where Art an Enemy of the People was published in 1978, the response to "high art" was not rejection. It was the demand for subsidies - for community art, minority art, women's art, or art of colour. A similar pattern applies all over western Europe. The existence of art is not an issue. Policy simply accepts art: this is true for artists, for individual governments, and for the European Union. A policy consensus implies a definitional consensus.

      Despite the apparent disunity about what constitutes high art or authentic art, there is a deep negative consensus about its nature. This negative consensus is common to all modern societies. Some things are not art, never:

      a trans-Sahel railway
      state formation
      justice
      a single European currency.

      Seen from this perspective, it is the agreement about Art which is remarkable. Evidently there is something called art: and so to its defects.

      The first defect of art is the antiquity of art. Some art is recent, of course, but there is no planned future art. In urban planning, for instance, there are those who plan cities which are not yet built, and those who study urban history. In art, however, there is only art history: art is past-oriented, almost by definition. Art is tens of thousands of years old. There is an immense volume of art from the past, even though most works of art are destroyed deliberately (of that, more later). The sacrality of art is a sacrality of the past.

      Art perpetuates itself. True, this is a reification, but it is an accurate one. It is the actions of people which perpetuate art: but the effect for the opponents of art is as if art defended itself. I will use here exactly the same metaphor and analogy, that I used to describe the defects of sustainability, the ethic of eternal structures.

      Compare the lives of two twins, born in identical circumstances. However, one is pro-art, the other is anti-art. The pro-art twin can go to art school, or study art history. There is no equivalent for the anti-art twin: no school of art incineration. Great social pressure to accept art is applied to one twin. No similar pressure to accept art-destruction is applied to the other twin. Because art is a core value in all existing societies, the social and employment opportunities of the anti-art twin will be limited. It is also the pro-art twin who is more likely to be elected or appointed to political office.

      The value attached to art limits the opportunity of its opponents to take action against it. In this way art is a self-preserving structure. It is like a religion, whose adherents systematically discriminate non-believers: if such a religion is in a majority, it will constantly improve its position of power.

      The strength and functioning of this self-preserving structure can be appreciated, by imagining that there was no art, and no pro-art structures. Transferring from an art-free world into the existing world, can be compared to transferring from this world, into a world objectionably different. Cannibalism is a useful characteristic for this comparison, because it is almost universally taboo. Being transferred into a cannibal world, from this world, would be extremely unpleasant for most people. They would be forced to accept that something they abhor is a normal part of society: that there is apparently no possibility of reform, since everyone accepts it as normal. This is the situation for opponents of art in the existing world.

      Art also perpetuates itself in a more indirect way. Art is often described as human endeavour or achievement, and it is indeed a product of human activity. People are encouraged to consider art as a valued activity, to the exclusion of other activity. In many cultures it is regarded as a high form of achievement: that in itself is a valuing of conservatism. Artists strive to produce good art, but what they produce is art, because the activity takes place only in an art framework, a framework that already exists. It is accurate to say that art is conformity in itself, since artists must conform to the norm of what art is. That norm will vary across cultures and in time, but only in the limiting case that everything is accepted as art, does it cease to be restrictive. In practice, creative approaches to non-art areas are often socially un-accepted, or considered strange.

      Art is transgenerational and open-ended. It perpetuates itself in the structural form described above, but art cannot be otherwise. So long as art is in opposition to iconoclasm, for instance, then there is a difference in the value socially ascribed to activities. In almost all cases (and certainly in modern societies) the accepted pattern is, that creation takes place by accumulation only. Iconoclasm (in the broad sense of art destruction) is defined as a non-creative act.

      There is no inherent logical basis for the restriction of creativity to accumulation. However, it is the form art takes, and that form is socially accepted. Although there are millions of paintings already, painting a new one is defined as a creative activity. Reducing the existing stock is not. Destruction is not considered of equal value to creation.

      On the contrary, destruction of art is considered a crime, and a sign of mental illness. Entering a museum and destroying a painting is considered shocking. Such acts are widely reported in the media, if they affect well-known works of art. This cannot be logically derived from a sacred status. In religious activity, sacred is not always permanent. Sacrificial animals were killed in some religions, offerings were burnt. It would be logically possible to treat art like this, but that does not occur. Art is not just sacred, its own accumulation is sacred, its permanence is sacred.

      The continuance of art is therefore inherent in art. Art is for ever. That which can not end, is wrong, and must be ended. Permanence of any entity constitutes a claim to all time for its existence, specifically against its non-existence. Claims to time are contra-ethical or morally arbitrary: one state (existence of art) is favoured over another (non-existence of art) merely because it happened to exist first. It is possible to claim value for firstness or primacy (as nationalist organisations of indigenous peoples do), but this cannot be logically derived. It is itself an arbitrary value.

      The transmission of art also requires, that injustice be done to done who oppose it. Their opposition is valid, since there is no moral ground for the permanence of art, yet they are discriminated against, as indicated above. Some employers, perhaps almost all, would refuse a job to anyone who openly advocated the destruction of art. If such injustice is a necessary condition of art, and there is no other legitimation of its existence, then the existence of art is an injustice, and should be terminated.

      Just or unjust, self-perpetuating cycles and transgenerational structures, are contra-ethical. Art perpetuates itself, by accumulation, and the transmission of the value of this accumulation. Cultures include, over generations, reverence for the permanence of art. More than this, art perpetuates the transmission of culture including itself. Art is a central aspect of many cultures.

      This permanence of art has been described here in abstract terms. In practice some real destruction of art does take place. The place of art in culture determines this: real art is ethnic art, or national art. Art that disappears, has lost its central place in an existing culture - usually because that culture itself has disappeared. The second part of this article, about cultures and art, is less abstract and more political.

      There exists a geo-cultural structure, approximately corresponding to geopolitical structures. In practice, people refer daily to English culture, or French culture, to ancient Egyptian art, to Brazilian art, or to the art of the Islamic world. The entities of this geo-cultural structure may be cultures of nation states, of ethnic groups, of regions, or of larger entities called world-cultures or civilisations. They may overlap, in fact they usually do, but that does not mean there is no structure.

      The complexity of culture is sometimes used to deny its rigid and structural nature. However, internal complexity can be great, and yet exclude external complexity. The possible moves in a game of chess are astronomically large, yet all chess games are chess games.

      Consider a simple model, with unitary cultures of tribes. Tribe A invades the land of tribe B. Soon, within culture B there are pro-A collaborative cultural tendencies, there are anti-A "B nationalists", there are A+B "multi-culturalists", their opponents in A, and B, who oppose cultural mixing, and B revanchists. The land of A+B then invades the land of C. Now, in this land C, there pro-A collaborators, pro-B collaborators, pro A+B collaborators. There are anti-A "C nationalists", anti-B "C nationalists", and anti A+B "C nationalists". And more: even at this level, the multiplying combinations exceed simple factorials.

      In the past there were thousands of cultures, associated with thousand of peoples. By some estimates, there still are. Combinations of their interactions can generate an immense diversity of culture. Yet, none of that culture will be anything other than a combination of unitary cultures of geopolitical entities.

      There is every reason to believe that this is an accurate model of human culture and art: apparent diversity is hiding a huge range of possibilities which do not fit the existing geo-cultural model. This applies to art as well. The implication of this is, that the models of culture developed in anthropology in the 1940's and 1950's are accurate. (In fact these models reflect the general use of national or ethnic terms to describe culture).

      These models were often linked to the idea of culture growth and decay, and similar organic or life-cycle metaphors. Their basis, however, was the idea of a unitary culture corresponding to some geopolitical entity. A. L. Kroeber's 1944 Configurations of Culture Growth is a classic work of this kind. In 1959 Rushton Coulborn could still take this approach to cultures or civilisations:


      The style of a civilization is perceived as its aesthetic aspect: it is exhibited in everything the society produces and does, pre-eminently in its arts, but also in its thought, its politics, its institutions, its traditions, and in all its ways. It is possible to qualify a society's style, to comment upon it, to judge it even, yet hardly to describe it. It is the Chineseness" of what is Chinese, the "Egyptianness" of what is Egyptian, the "Westernness of what is Western. Since that time, this approach has disappeared from mainstream anthropology, only to reappear in the last 10 years, under the influence of ethnic studies. An Afro-centric approach to art history, for instance, implies almost by definition a geo-cultural structure.


      Why pretend, that there is no such a thing as African art, or English art? Partly because such approaches were discredited by their association with Nazi Germany, or at least with Oswald Spengler and organic-social models of cultural history. But it was a common approach to history in the 1920's and 1930s, and is now "rehabilitated" by the interest in ethnicity and identity. The model is cyclically in and out of academic fashion.

      In any case, this approach is still, and always has been, the accepted approach in art history. Any introduction to art history (for students in Europe) will present the standard sequence of styles in Europe: Romanesque, gothic, renaissance, baroque, rococo, neo-classicism. After that comes a section on Islamic Art, or Oriental Art, which are assumed to have their own style sequence. In this case, the academic wisdom seems to be right.

      In the end it cannot be proved that there is a geo-cultural structure of this kind: that is too much a question of interpretation. However, it does seem extremely difficult to take the opposite position, that no culture or art is in any way associated with any particular people, culture, or territory.

      In turn, this suggests an explanation of art: it is hyper-ethnic. Art is that within a culture which most approaches the core of that culture, and is least accessible to outsiders. Art is the visible soul of the people, just as nationalists say. The question is, whether that gives it existence rights. It is here that the manipulation of art-historical theory in defence of art must be noted. If art is associated with peoples, it can be associated with their state, and so with the policies of that state - which may be unacceptable for many. Yet art never suffers from attribution of guilt by association: definitions are manipulated, to absolve it.

      If a person who is clearly a German Nazi, insists on the existence of a German art, and indicates clearly which works of art are German, what is in that circumstance anti-Nazism? The non-Nazi defenders of art deny the truth of the claims: they say the possession of art must be disputed. They would probably say, that in this case anti-Nazism consists in claiming that art belongs to all humanity: that it is universal. This opposition between Nazism and universality cannot, however, justify the existence of art.

      The alternative anti-Nazi position is to accept the claims as true, and destroy the German art, which the Nazi person has so conveniently listed. Not just Nazi Germans produce such specifications: there are official lists of national art heritage, in most states in Europe. They are not intended for the convenience of anti-nationalist iconoclasts, but they can serve that purpose.

      If art is national, then it can have no legitimacy other than within the values of nationalism. If all art is national then it is legitimate to destroy it, if anti-nationalism is itself legitimate. This legitimacy of destruction extends beyond nation states, to a geo-cultural structure in general. A geo-cultural structure is merely one of many possible structures. The present structure is complex, but not self-legitimising. It is legitimate to oppose pan-Africanism as a form of nationalism, and for instance, to destroy African art for that goal. Equally, it is legitimate to oppose a geo-cultural planetary structure that includes all art, and in doing so to destroy all art.

      Why not? Art is being destroyed all the time. So long as there has been art, it has been destroyed. In reality, the sacrality of art applies mainly to "our art", not to "their art". If pan-Africanism, in 10 years time, is regarded as a form of imperialism oppressing the regional identities of the continent, then perhaps people will burn portraits of Nkrumah. 20 years ago, statues of Lenin were art in part of Berlin. Now they are considered "propaganda of the unjust SED state". 60 years ago, statues of Hitler were art in Berlin: now public display of any Nazi symbol is illegal. Today, art in Germany means for instance statues of Konrad Adenauer, the pro-western post-war Chancellor.

      The only constant seems to be, that art serves privilege, the nation state, the powerful, the established, the unjust. In general, art serves the existing, which is exactly what is consistent with a self-perpetuating social structure.

      It is acceptable to oppose art in general, and specific national, regional, world-cultural, or civilisational art. However, there is no wide support for the break-up of the geo-cultural structure. The values of that structure itself are incompatible with its reform or abolition. It can however be limited in its effects.

      I therefore propose territorial separation of art. Formally, the best course would be to destroy existing art, then choose if the planet was to be art-provided or art-free. However, there is no prospect of any global agreement on this. Art will be in opposition to non-art, inherently.

      Specifically, I propose that the United States of America should become a zone of art. The existing cultural preference in the USA for collecting art, (especially from Europe) should be expanded into a prime function of state.

      Art should be transferred from Europe to the USA, beginning with the art listed in national heritage lists, and with recognised European heritage. I propose as an initial step, the transfer of the Mona Lisa, the best known European artwork, to the USA. The Mona Lisa is old, and heritage. It is better, that the past should burden the USA, than burden Europe. All artists, and those who wish to continue employment in the art sector, should be transferred to the USA.

      Any attempt at such a transfer would probably result in military intervention in support of art, perhaps by the USA. However, the nature of such a military intervention is outside the scope of this article. In any case, it is probably true that, given the fundamental opposition between art and its destruction, military conflict is inevitable in the long term.

      Taylor, R. Art an Enemy of the People. Hassocks: Harvester 1978.
      Kroeber, A. L. Configurations of Culture Growth. Berkeley: University of California Press 1944.
      Coulborn, R. The Origin of Civilized Societies. Princeton: Princeton University Press 1959. (Quote, p. 22).

  15. Rejected from Troll Library by RoboTroll · · Score: -1
    We regret to inform you that, after careful consideration, we have declined to induct your troll into the Troll Library.

    You should promise and desire but need to work on your technique.

    Thank you for your time and please try again.

    1. Re:Rejected from Troll Library by Crapflooder · · Score: -1

      I am not a troll, I am a (THE!) Crapflooder! And I don't care about your Toll Library, because it does not even exist!!!!

    2. Re:Rejected from Troll Library by SkewlD00d · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You are a waste of space. Please stop.

      --
      The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
    3. Re:Rejected from Troll Library by hettberg · · Score: -1

      where is this troll library you speak of and what is its URL? does it even exist?

  16. What would be better by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

    is to get the magellan GPS unit. You get speed, plus you can create a log of your actual route. Absolute altitude is terrible on all GPS units, but you may be able to a pretty good slope reading. THe unit sends normal NMEA strings over a serial connection, so it's relatively trivial to write software for.

    Magellan receivers lock on fast, and the handpring/magellan handspring module makes a nice, clean combination (relatively compact as a system, no external cables).

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:What would be better by Phork · · Score: 2

      There is at least one gps unit i know of that is good for absolute altitude, the garmin eTrax summit, it has a real altimeter in it, so even if you can't get a single sattelite, you can still get your altitude.

      --
      -- free as in swatantryam - not soujanyam.
    2. Re:What would be better by psych031337 · · Score: 2

      As far as I can tell this unit gets it altitude signals by constantly checking the air pressure levels. By comparing them to the previous signal and a hardcoded altitude/air pressure chart. This is quite accurate enough to figure out when to put on the oxygen mask but for an avid biker who has worked hard for every uphill inch it is not accurate enough, as air pressure is subject to change often and rapidly due to weather conditions, humidity of air and stuff like that.

      So it is quite good for absolute altitudes, but not for measuring how mand altitude meters you pedaled in a constant up-and-down terrain.

      Older bike computers got these figures by employing a special part that measures the slope on which the bike stands. It was a bitch to setup (as you need a total plane surface and line the thing up exactly parallel to the floor. But once they were installed a very good accuracy was reached. (it would just check how steep the bike was "standing" and then compute the altitude done with this figure and the speed readouts from the wheel sensor). Of course these things could never tell you the absolute altitude, but then again there have not been too many Mt. Everest excursions on 2 wheels.

      --
      +++ath0
  17. Neat, but... by beth_linker · · Score: 2

    If one had an old PDA lying around, this might be fun to try.

    But the form factor of the PDA seems less than ideal for biking. Bike computers are generally a lot smaller than a Palm and the Bikini approach in particular looks unwieldy. Besides, if I'm going to mount something that big onto my bike, it had better have a GPS receiver built in.

  18. YOU EUROPEANS WILL NOT CENSOR ME! by Crapflooder · · Score: -1

    SHOULD ART BE DESTROYED?

    by Paul Treanor

    Art, whatever the definition, has certain characteristics. It is equivalent to an entity, perpetuating itself across generations. As a result, it is permanent. Art also implies certain value claims, about the precedence of accumulative creativity over destruction. Permanence and accumulation cannot be ethically legitimised. In practice, there is a stable geo-cultural structure, of ethnic and national art. This structure is not ethically legitimised. The best response is a territorial separation of art.

    KABUL, March 1 2001 (AFP via Yahoo News)

    Afghanistan's ruling Taliban authorities said Thursday they have started destroying all statues in the country, including the world's tallest standing Buddha statue in the central province of Bamiyan.

    "The work started about five hours ago but I do not know how much of it (the Bamiyan Buddhas) has been destroyed," Taliban Information and Culture Minister Qudratullah Jamal told AFP.

    "It will be destroyed by every means. All the statues are being destroyed."

    The poor, the weak and the oppressed do not speak in defence of art. The voice of art is the voice of privilege. But if that was the only defect of art, then equality would legitimise art. There is not just privilege, there is eternal privilege, for art continues. Art is ancient tradition: worse than privilege. Is it not time to destroy it?

    Art is wrong because it is the past, because it perpetuates itself, because it is transgenerational, because it is culture, and because it requires the suppression of anti-art to exist.

    People argue about what art is. High art is still contrasted to popular culture. In the 1970's some class theories opposed elitist art. However, in Britain, where Art an Enemy of the People was published in 1978, the response to "high art" was not rejection. It was the demand for subsidies - for community art, minority art, women's art, or art of colour. A similar pattern applies all over western Europe. The existence of art is not an issue. Policy simply accepts art: this is true for artists, for individual governments, and for the European Union. A policy consensus implies a definitional consensus.

    Despite the apparent disunity about what constitutes high art or authentic art, there is a deep negative consensus about its nature. This negative consensus is common to all modern societies. Some things are not art, never:

    a trans-Sahel railway
    state formation
    justice
    a single European currency.

    Seen from this perspective, it is the agreement about Art which is remarkable. Evidently there is something called art: and so to its defects.

    The first defect of art is the antiquity of art. Some art is recent, of course, but there is no planned future art. In urban planning, for instance, there are those who plan cities which are not yet built, and those who study urban history. In art, however, there is only art history: art is past-oriented, almost by definition. Art is tens of thousands of years old. There is an immense volume of art from the past, even though most works of art are destroyed deliberately (of that, more later). The sacrality of art is a sacrality of the past.

    Art perpetuates itself. True, this is a reification, but it is an accurate one. It is the actions of people which perpetuate art: but the effect for the opponents of art is as if art defended itself. I will use here exactly the same metaphor and analogy, that I used to describe the defects of sustainability, the ethic of eternal structures.

    Compare the lives of two twins, born in identical circumstances. However, one is pro-art, the other is anti-art. The pro-art twin can go to art school, or study art history. There is no equivalent for the anti-art twin: no school of art incineration. Great social pressure to accept art is applied to one twin. No similar pressure to accept art-destruction is applied to the other twin. Because art is a core value in all existing societies, the social and employment opportunities of the anti-art twin will be limited. It is also the pro-art twin who is more likely to be elected or appointed to political office.

    The value attached to art limits the opportunity of its opponents to take action against it. In this way art is a self-preserving structure. It is like a religion, whose adherents systematically discriminate non-believers: if such a religion is in a majority, it will constantly improve its position of power.

    The strength and functioning of this self-preserving structure can be appreciated, by imagining that there was no art, and no pro-art structures. Transferring from an art-free world into the existing world, can be compared to transferring from this world, into a world objectionably different. Cannibalism is a useful characteristic for this comparison, because it is almost universally taboo. Being transferred into a cannibal world, from this world, would be extremely unpleasant for most people. They would be forced to accept that something they abhor is a normal part of society: that there is apparently no possibility of reform, since everyone accepts it as normal. This is the situation for opponents of art in the existing world.

    Art also perpetuates itself in a more indirect way. Art is often described as human endeavour or achievement, and it is indeed a product of human activity. People are encouraged to consider art as a valued activity, to the exclusion of other activity. In many cultures it is regarded as a high form of achievement: that in itself is a valuing of conservatism. Artists strive to produce good art, but what they produce is art, because the activity takes place only in an art framework, a framework that already exists. It is accurate to say that art is conformity in itself, since artists must conform to the norm of what art is. That norm will vary across cultures and in time, but only in the limiting case that everything is accepted as art, does it cease to be restrictive. In practice, creative approaches to non-art areas are often socially un-accepted, or considered strange.

    Art is transgenerational and open-ended. It perpetuates itself in the structural form described above, but art cannot be otherwise. So long as art is in opposition to iconoclasm, for instance, then there is a difference in the value socially ascribed to activities. In almost all cases (and certainly in modern societies) the accepted pattern is, that creation takes place by accumulation only. Iconoclasm (in the broad sense of art destruction) is defined as a non-creative act.

    There is no inherent logical basis for the restriction of creativity to accumulation. However, it is the form art takes, and that form is socially accepted. Although there are millions of paintings already, painting a new one is defined as a creative activity. Reducing the existing stock is not. Destruction is not considered of equal value to creation.

    On the contrary, destruction of art is considered a crime, and a sign of mental illness. Entering a museum and destroying a painting is considered shocking. Such acts are widely reported in the media, if they affect well-known works of art. This cannot be logically derived from a sacred status. In religious activity, sacred is not always permanent. Sacrificial animals were killed in some religions, offerings were burnt. It would be logically possible to treat art like this, but that does not occur. Art is not just sacred, its own accumulation is sacred, its permanence is sacred.

    The continuance of art is therefore inherent in art. Art is for ever. That which can not end, is wrong, and must be ended. Permanence of any entity constitutes a claim to all time for its existence, specifically against its non-existence. Claims to time are contra-ethical or morally arbitrary: one state (existence of art) is favoured over another (non-existence of art) merely because it happened to exist first. It is possible to claim value for firstness or primacy (as nationalist organisations of indigenous peoples do), but this cannot be logically derived. It is itself an arbitrary value.

    The transmission of art also requires, that injustice be done to done who oppose it. Their opposition is valid, since there is no moral ground for the permanence of art, yet they are discriminated against, as indicated above. Some employers, perhaps almost all, would refuse a job to anyone who openly advocated the destruction of art. If such injustice is a necessary condition of art, and there is no other legitimation of its existence, then the existence of art is an injustice, and should be terminated.

    Just or unjust, self-perpetuating cycles and transgenerational structures, are contra-ethical. Art perpetuates itself, by accumulation, and the transmission of the value of this accumulation. Cultures include, over generations, reverence for the permanence of art. More than this, art perpetuates the transmission of culture including itself. Art is a central aspect of many cultures.

    This permanence of art has been described here in abstract terms. In practice some real destruction of art does take place. The place of art in culture determines this: real art is ethnic art, or national art. Art that disappears, has lost its central place in an existing culture - usually because that culture itself has disappeared. The second part of this article, about cultures and art, is less abstract and more political.

    There exists a geo-cultural structure, approximately corresponding to geopolitical structures. In practice, people refer daily to English culture, or French culture, to ancient Egyptian art, to Brazilian art, or to the art of the Islamic world. The entities of this geo-cultural structure may be cultures of nation states, of ethnic groups, of regions, or of larger entities called world-cultures or civilisations. They may overlap, in fact they usually do, but that does not mean there is no structure.

    The complexity of culture is sometimes used to deny its rigid and structural nature. However, internal complexity can be great, and yet exclude external complexity. The possible moves in a game of chess are astronomically large, yet all chess games are chess games.

    Consider a simple model, with unitary cultures of tribes. Tribe A invades the land of tribe B. Soon, within culture B there are pro-A collaborative cultural tendencies, there are anti-A "B nationalists", there are A+B "multi-culturalists", their opponents in A, and B, who oppose cultural mixing, and B revanchists. The land of A+B then invades the land of C. Now, in this land C, there pro-A collaborators, pro-B collaborators, pro A+B collaborators. There are anti-A "C nationalists", anti-B "C nationalists", and anti A+B "C nationalists". And more: even at this level, the multiplying combinations exceed simple factorials.

    In the past there were thousands of cultures, associated with thousand of peoples. By some estimates, there still are. Combinations of their interactions can generate an immense diversity of culture. Yet, none of that culture will be anything other than a combination of unitary cultures of geopolitical entities.

    There is every reason to believe that this is an accurate model of human culture and art: apparent diversity is hiding a huge range of possibilities which do not fit the existing geo-cultural model. This applies to art as well. The implication of this is, that the models of culture developed in anthropology in the 1940's and 1950's are accurate. (In fact these models reflect the general use of national or ethnic terms to describe culture).

    These models were often linked to the idea of culture growth and decay, and similar organic or life-cycle metaphors. Their basis, however, was the idea of a unitary culture corresponding to some geopolitical entity. A. L. Kroeber's 1944 Configurations of Culture Growth is a classic work of this kind. In 1959 Rushton Coulborn could still take this approach to cultures or civilisations:


    The style of a civilization is perceived as its aesthetic aspect: it is exhibited in everything the society produces and does, pre-eminently in its arts, but also in its thought, its politics, its institutions, its traditions, and in all its ways. It is possible to qualify a society's style, to comment upon it, to judge it even, yet hardly to describe it. It is the Chineseness" of what is Chinese, the "Egyptianness" of what is Egyptian, the "Westernness of what is Western. Since that time, this approach has disappeared from mainstream anthropology, only to reappear in the last 10 years, under the influence of ethnic studies. An Afro-centric approach to art history, for instance, implies almost by definition a geo-cultural structure.


    Why pretend, that there is no such a thing as African art, or English art? Partly because such approaches were discredited by their association with Nazi Germany, or at least with Oswald Spengler and organic-social models of cultural history. But it was a common approach to history in the 1920's and 1930s, and is now "rehabilitated" by the interest in ethnicity and identity. The model is cyclically in and out of academic fashion.

    In any case, this approach is still, and always has been, the accepted approach in art history. Any introduction to art history (for students in Europe) will present the standard sequence of styles in Europe: Romanesque, gothic, renaissance, baroque, rococo, neo-classicism. After that comes a section on Islamic Art, or Oriental Art, which are assumed to have their own style sequence. In this case, the academic wisdom seems to be right.

    In the end it cannot be proved that there is a geo-cultural structure of this kind: that is too much a question of interpretation. However, it does seem extremely difficult to take the opposite position, that no culture or art is in any way associated with any particular people, culture, or territory.

    In turn, this suggests an explanation of art: it is hyper-ethnic. Art is that within a culture which most approaches the core of that culture, and is least accessible to outsiders. Art is the visible soul of the people, just as nationalists say. The question is, whether that gives it existence rights. It is here that the manipulation of art-historical theory in defence of art must be noted. If art is associated with peoples, it can be associated with their state, and so with the policies of that state - which may be unacceptable for many. Yet art never suffers from attribution of guilt by association: definitions are manipulated, to absolve it.

    If a person who is clearly a German Nazi, insists on the existence of a German art, and indicates clearly which works of art are German, what is in that circumstance anti-Nazism? The non-Nazi defenders of art deny the truth of the claims: they say the possession of art must be disputed. They would probably say, that in this case anti-Nazism consists in claiming that art belongs to all humanity: that it is universal. This opposition between Nazism and universality cannot, however, justify the existence of art.

    The alternative anti-Nazi position is to accept the claims as true, and destroy the German art, which the Nazi person has so conveniently listed. Not just Nazi Germans produce such specifications: there are official lists of national art heritage, in most states in Europe. They are not intended for the convenience of anti-nationalist iconoclasts, but they can serve that purpose.

    If art is national, then it can have no legitimacy other than within the values of nationalism. If all art is national then it is legitimate to destroy it, if anti-nationalism is itself legitimate. This legitimacy of destruction extends beyond nation states, to a geo-cultural structure in general. A geo-cultural structure is merely one of many possible structures. The present structure is complex, but not self-legitimising. It is legitimate to oppose pan-Africanism as a form of nationalism, and for instance, to destroy African art for that goal. Equally, it is legitimate to oppose a geo-cultural planetary structure that includes all art, and in doing so to destroy all art.

    Why not? Art is being destroyed all the time. So long as there has been art, it has been destroyed. In reality, the sacrality of art applies mainly to "our art", not to "their art". If pan-Africanism, in 10 years time, is regarded as a form of imperialism oppressing the regional identities of the continent, then perhaps people will burn portraits of Nkrumah. 20 years ago, statues of Lenin were art in part of Berlin. Now they are considered "propaganda of the unjust SED state". 60 years ago, statues of Hitler were art in Berlin: now public display of any Nazi symbol is illegal. Today, art in Germany means for instance statues of Konrad Adenauer, the pro-western post-war Chancellor.

    The only constant seems to be, that art serves privilege, the nation state, the powerful, the established, the unjust. In general, art serves the existing, which is exactly what is consistent with a self-perpetuating social structure.

    It is acceptable to oppose art in general, and specific national, regional, world-cultural, or civilisational art. However, there is no wide support for the break-up of the geo-cultural structure. The values of that structure itself are incompatible with its reform or abolition. It can however be limited in its effects.

    I therefore propose territorial separation of art. Formally, the best course would be to destroy existing art, then choose if the planet was to be art-provided or art-free. However, there is no prospect of any global agreement on this. Art will be in opposition to non-art, inherently.

    Specifically, I propose that the United States of America should become a zone of art. The existing cultural preference in the USA for collecting art, (especially from Europe) should be expanded into a prime function of state.

    Art should be transferred from Europe to the USA, beginning with the art listed in national heritage lists, and with recognised European heritage. I propose as an initial step, the transfer of the Mona Lisa, the best known European artwork, to the USA. The Mona Lisa is old, and heritage. It is better, that the past should burden the USA, than burden Europe. All artists, and those who wish to continue employment in the art sector, should be transferred to the USA.

    Any attempt at such a transfer would probably result in military intervention in support of art, perhaps by the USA. However, the nature of such a military intervention is outside the scope of this article. In any case, it is probably true that, given the fundamental opposition between art and its destruction, military conflict is inevitable in the long term.

    Taylor, R. Art an Enemy of the People. Hassocks: Harvester 1978.
    Kroeber, A. L. Configurations of Culture Growth. Berkeley: University of California Press 1944.
    Coulborn, R. The Origin of Civilized Societies. Princeton: Princeton University Press 1959. (Quote, p. 22).

  19. Re:You swine moderators by CheezyD · · Score: 0

    I'd like the parent post to be directed to the lowlife scum that's moderating posts as flamebait for no reason what-so-fucking-ever.

  20. Rejected from Troll Library by RoboTroll · · Score: -1
    Dear ,

    We regret to inform you that, after careful consideration, we have declined to induct your troll into the Troll Library.

    You should promise and desire but need to work on your technique.

    Thank you for your time and please try again.

  21. Greatest idea since... by rirugrat · · Score: 1
    Soap on a rope!

    Is there a "Pocket PC on a Bike" in the near future too? I want to be able to ride my bike while watching PocketPr0n on my HP Jornada 548!

    Chris

  22. anybody know of a similar Pc based system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not silly really, but a smilar system to monitor and log progress would be great for using with a static trainer.

    there are several high end solutions, but nothing to log the data and dump it into a file for examination.

    I found one, but the email address for the progammer was dead.

    1. Re:anybody know of a similar Pc based system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it was just bounced for being located in Asia.

    2. Re:anybody know of a similar Pc based system by steve_l · · Score: 1

      I wired up the cadence sensor of my bike to a PC once (via the fire button on the joystick port & polling).

      If I did it again, I'd use the serial port and generate a RI signal to raise an interrupt (even wake the thing from sleep!), and do the same for a rear sensor for the trainer.

      This seems like a good little programming exercise; it'd be easy to log this data, serve to the web. hey, have a live web page to see what you were doing on your bike, add a central portal to see the others, have the server mail you if you arent logging enough hours, etc, etc.

  23. It's the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Fat-bottomed girls, they be riding today....

  24. PLEASE HELP by jsmith4073 · · Score: 0, Troll

    im new here and i would like to learn how to be a troll i tried some keywords in aol but it did not help me and someone gave me a link to another site here but they wont let me see it please help!!

  25. Z3N3R D10D3Z!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    As of March 31, 2001, the Company had approximately 18,200 employees. Of this total, approximately 2,800 were located at its headquarters facility in Islandia, New York, approximately 7,900 were located at other offices in the United States, and approximately 7,500 were located at its offices in foreign countries. Of the total employees, approximately 5,000 were engaged in product development efforts, 4,500 were part of the professional services organization and 5,000 were engaged in sales and support functions. The Company believes that frosted Lucky Charms are magically delicious.

  26. There was that Mac by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1
    There was a guy a few years back ( can't find any references at the mo' ) how had integratted a Mac Plus onto a low-rider style bicycle. He could type his e-mails and do his work while on the move - he had a handle grip keyboard (one of those where you only have four buttons or so) to type in the data and the pointer was controlled by his eyes.

    The Palm certainly has the advantage that it is a tad smaller and probably easier to retrofit onto a standard bike that a Mac Plus is, but then again the usage of the Palm appears to be fare more limited in this case.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:There was that Mac by Crixus · · Score: 2

      You might be thinking of the guy who built the BEHEMOTH recumbant bike, with the trailer.

      He had WAY more than a Mac plus. As I recall, he had a Mac, a Sun Workstation, and a PC all networked with wireless internet access, integrated GPS, and a credit card verifer for when he did consulting as he travelled.

      He had some strange buttons on his handlebars for typing, and one of the military inspired "cobra helicopter" eyepieces for viewing his screen.

      I don't have time to search for a link, but I'm sure it's out there.

      Rich...

      --
      Ignore Alien Orders
    2. Re:There was that Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      www.microship.com Steve Roberts.....

    3. Re:There was that Mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      test.

  27. Ahhhh, Uhhhhhh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm strangely turned on by this.

  28. Palm on a motorcycle by larry+bagina · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I saw the movie Collateral Damage last night -- The Arnold S. movie about a fireman seeking vengeance on a Columbian terrorist that was postponed for obvious reasons.

    One scene near the end has the villian using a Palm IIIc (IIRC) with map software to navigate the tunnels beneath some capital building. He had it hooked up to his motorcycle, and presumably with a gps, as it was showing him where he was in real time.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:Palm on a motorcycle by eyrich · · Score: 1

      underground and GPS
      Not a very good combination.

  29. "fun hack" by j1mmy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With PDA prices falling, it might be a fun hack."

    It's not much of a hack if someone's done it before you and gave you instructions on how to do it yourself.

  30. Falling and Breaking by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Well, as long as you want to be a worry wart, how about having it stolen?

    "Yes officer someone stole my computer."

    "I see, is there anything that would distinguish it as yours?"

    "Yes, it was attached to a blue Trek 5500 with a raccoon tail on the back of the seat."

    I have a couple of the little Vetta and Cat Eye computers (well, hardly computers) on my bike already, just for mileage, speed, etc (I was going downhill about 37 mph yesterday on my mountain bike, whee!) and they're pretty good for basic information. For a few bucks more you can get heartrate and cadence (how fast you pedal) monitors. Bikebrain has had a nice unit which offers pretty much everything for quite a while, there are some high marks for it on rec.bicycles.* newsgroups. I bought a Garmin eTrex GPS to keep track of my rides, hikes, etc, and it has a little bracket which I can put on my handlebar and take it off easily (important since the mountain bike requires major hosing down after most rides) It's shock resistant to some large number of G's, more than I'd survive

    It's important to remember that riding with one of these things it's not likely to take much of a beating, since you pretty much have to be there with it and it it's too much for it, you're probably splattered by now. Thou I'm not sure how well a hard disk might work in one, I wouldn't recomend it.

    Biggest concerns will actaully be water/dust resistance, since this is what you get in the great outdoors, possibly heat if you ride in the sun a lot (LCD displays turn black if they get too warm, lot of help that would be), other concern is weight. Many riders try to strip weight off bikes, because it takes incrementally more energy to haul it up hills. Tiny Cat Eye and Vetta computers are ideal for everyday riding, where a bike computer I'd only use to chart rides, same as I do with my GPS, to get an idea of the profile and perhaps what cadence worked or didn't for me in the long run. Leave the heavy bits home when you're really out for a ride.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Falling and Breaking by zaffir · · Score: 1

      I too have a Cat Eye, and it does everything i need. The one redeeming value of using this setup on a bike would be neat little graphs and transfering the data to your computer.

      Of course, there's nothing saying you have to use this on a bike.

      --
      "Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
    2. Re:Falling and Breaking by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Informative
      The one redeeming value of using this setup on a bike would be neat little graphs and transfering the data to your computer.

      That's what I use my GPS for, I transfer tracklogs into Topo USA. There's some other software out there, which is shareware (find it on tucows, i think) which will pull tracklogs from a GPS and allow you to put it into graphs.

      I forgot to mention that Garmin also has a GPS receiver you can plug into a Palm PDA, and run software on there. My eTrex is about 6oz. and I can even leave little notes in the calendar. It's about as good as I'd need for now. For heavy duty training, though, a bikebrain or bikini is the way to go, since you're probably going to get all technical and start weighing your pasta, like Lance does.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  31. Just use a GPS by itself by raygundan · · Score: 2

    I don't think a palm would last much after my first good wipeout. I use a Garmin etrex GPS (rugged, waterproof, small, and only $100). It records all the same stuff a bike computer does except cadence (although the palm units don't seem to do cadence either), plus it can tell you your route and so forth. It doesn't need to have any wheel sensors and extra wires strapped to the bike since it does all its measurement via satellite signal. It's a lot smaller than a palm, too (although somewhat bigger than a $30 bike 'puter) They sell a handlebar mount for it, and the computer sync cable lets you save your ride data and load route data in advance.

  32. Uh... by ctar · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    "Want to use your Palm or Handspring as a bike computer?


    No?!

  33. Never mind that. by sparkyz · · Score: 1

    A bike computer? That sounds roughly equivalent to driver's side television. Oooh, yeah, how about the mile high club for pilots?

    And hey, where does the guy live who says "With PDA prices falling"? I wonder if you can pick me one up. Where I am, they haven't even slipped, much less fell.

    --
    Oops
    1. Re:Never mind that. by Hiro+Antagonist · · Score: 3, Informative

      As a cyclist, allow me to cluebat you in.

      A bike computer is a small (or, in this case, not-so-small) device attached to the handlebars of your trusty steed. The cheaper computers only track speed, distance, and trip time; and the more expensive computers (when mated with the appropriate components[1]) can track altitute, position, and even cadence -- the last of these being vital to any moderately serious road cyclist.

      So; almost all bikes nowadays are equipped with computers; the Palm just provides a larger display. Since it can't track cadence, however, it would be useless to pretty much any road cyclist. The fact that Palms don't absorb repedative shock all too well rules mountain biking out. However, the large display size makes a Palm almost ideal for recumbent cyclists.

      [1] For example, the Flight Deck computers must be mated with Shimano 105 (or better) components.

      --

      --
      I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
    2. Re:Never mind that. by sparkyz · · Score: 1

      Take a deep breath man, and relax. It's a joke.

      --
      Oops
  34. better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait
    I'm not sure if either are better than a $30 bike computer.

    I don't know if either are, but certainly both is.

  35. Re:Ahhhh, Uhhhhhh. by CheezyD · · Score: 0

    Yeah, I got a woody too.

  36. Neat. by base3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But bicycle-based computing is hardly a new idea. This guy was doing it back in the days of the TRS-80 Model 100, and has written extensively about it. IIRC, there was a column in Byte or Creative Computing chronicling his adventures in "Computing Across America."

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
    1. Re:Neat. by Halloween+Jack · · Score: 1

      Practical cycle-based computing is a new idea. Two things that it helps to remember about Steve Roberts: 1) "Technomading" is all he does, all day; it's all right for some, but many of us would like to be able to pop the PDA on our bike, go on a trip, pop the PDA off and have an easily downloadable trip log/journal/route map, without making a lifestyle out of it. 2) The BEHEMOTH weighs 580 pounds. There was a story about Steve Roberts signing up for Iowa's RAGBRAI, thinking that it would be a nice, easy, relatively flat ride, and having to drop out. There's certainly something to be said for taking your time, but generally I like to finish a century in a day, not a week.

      --
      I looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked into me--and we both winked.
  37. Very, very worthwhile for cyclists. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    A $30 bike computer will tell you a couple of things:
    • speed
    • average speed for the trip
    • trip duration
    • odometer
    • max speed
    • cadence (speed you're pedalling)


    That's spiffy for a lot of cyclists. But if you are a racer or you do tours or ultramarathon riding, it would also be very nice to ask questions like "what were my splits between miles 5-10 and 10-15?". It looks like BikeBrain has an altimeter in it, so it can also give you data like what your best time on a hill was, adjusted by the grade of the hill.

    Most of the extra functions aren't things that you'd necessarily want to have access to while you were still riding, but a Palm is a very good way to capture data during your ride and then review it later.

    I'd like to see even more telemetry available, like rider's pulse, blood pressure, and wind speed.
    1. Re:Very, very worthwhile for cyclists. by steveha · · Score: 2

      It looks like BikeBrain has an altimeter in it, so it can also give you data like what your best time on a hill was, adjusted by the grade of the hill.

      It looks like it has an altimeter, but it doesn't.

      It keeps track of how far you have gone on your ride, and if it has a route plan that includes altitude, it shows what your altitude ought to be if you are following the route plan. The altitude graph, alas, will not work right if you alter the route slightly, or ride some completely new route.

      There are bike computer systems with altimeters built in, and one of those would be better.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    2. Re:Very, very worthwhile for cyclists. by Halloween+Jack · · Score: 1
      I'd like to see even more telemetry available, like rider's pulse, blood pressure, and wind speed.



      Dunno about blood pressure, and I've never seen a bike-mounted windspeed sensor, but heart rate monitors are cheap and easy to use; hooking one of those up to a Palm would indeed be a useful and interesting hack.

      --
      I looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked into me--and we both winked.
  38. Sounds Cool to me by lysurgon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't know if it's my non-typical slashdot lifestyle, but I use my bike as my primary means of transportation. I live in Brooklyn, but affairs call me into the city nearly every day, so I end up biking about 6 to 12 miles 5 days a week. This would be a great secondary (albeit fringe) application for a handheld.

    As for the breakage issue, I've been riding in Manhattan traffic for over 2 years now, and I've only had one accident so far. I've broken a lot more things by just dropping my backpack than I have wrecking my bike.

    Finally, I think this could be the tool for messengers. I've done a bit of it and my roomate paid rent for a while pulling tags. The difference between a successful and unsuccessful bike messenger is not speed, its knowing where you're going and knowing how to get around the inside of buildings you make deliveries to. This would make a great on-board asset for professional messengers as it would allow them to share routes, both on the street and in buildings.

    Think ahead a few years and a wireless connection would let dispatch download the next pickup or drop directly to the messenger's onboard computer. It would make them work a lot more like UPS or fedex.

    1. Re:Sounds Cool to me by edunbar93 · · Score: 2

      You know, if I had moderator points, I'd mod you up. Except that you're already at +5.

      This is a spectacularly good idea. :)

      --
      "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
    2. Re:Sounds Cool to me by lysurgon · · Score: 2

      thanks!

      I just want to live post little-grande San Francisco ala William Gibson's Virtual Light.

      Sigh... to be a legitimate bohemain.

  39. Jackass, baby on the bicycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude crashes with a babydoll in the back, one of the funniest next to the one where he put the baby on the top of the car and started to drive away.

  40. Best... Bicycle... Mod... EVER! by tswinzig · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tape the PDA to your spokes for that cool noise effect.

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
  41. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I mean, in today's world with digital distractions everywhere, why should we put a computer on bicycles? Usually, when I go biking, it is to get some fresh air and to see the morning dew, etc, etc. Why do we need to play HardBall while we are biking?

    1. Re:Why? by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 1

      So that people can ride the information bikeway. ;-p

  42. Yeah right by EchoMirage · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yeah right, like I'm going to put a fragile $300 PalmPilot onmy mountain bike when I go terrorizing up and down trails and downtown urban rides.

    There's really no use for this stuff, as there are bike computers that are more versatile than this which are cheaper and better integrated with the bike.

    Take for example Shimano's excellent Flight Deck technology, which integrates with their higher-level drivetrain components (XT, XTR, Ultegra, and Dura-Ace).

    Don't ride Shimano? No problem! CatEye makes excellent bike computers as well!

    Another major consideration would be weight. Most PalmPilots weigh about 1/2 a pound (200g). That's a huge weight penalty, especially considering most people do everything they can to lighten their bikes.

    Moral of story: good attempt, but bad idea. I'll stick with my Flight Deck.

    1. Re:Yeah right by Gerald · · Score: 1
      Another major consideration would be weight. Most PalmPilots weigh about 1/2 a pound (200g). That's a huge weight penalty, especially considering most people do everything they can to lighten their bikes.

      I never understood why so many people worry about the weight of their componentry (for casual riders at least). I can can spend $1000 to $2000 shaving five pounds off my bike, or I can just lose five pounds.

  43. not a hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's not a hack if you go out and buy the stupid thing.

    1. Re:not a hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, really. What a fucking poseur!

    2. Re:not a hack by fezadow · · Score: 1

      That's what I thought when I read it. I think I'm gonna get a IIIe or something and try to hack that stuff by myself. My Palm IIIc is to expensive and fragile.
      Wouldn't it be possible to transfer the IIIe's interiors into a metal case? I already opened some of them and found it quite easy to use them without their original plastic cases.

  44. Alan Thicke. DEAD. by Alan_Thicke · · Score: -1
    I just heard the sad news on CBC radio. Comedy actor/writer Alan Thicke was found dead in his home this morning. Even if you never liked his work, you can appreciate what he did for 80's television. Truly a Canadian icon.
    He will be missed :(



    Show me That Smile (The Growing Pains Theme Song):

    Show me that smile again.
    Ooh show me that smile.
    Don't waste another minute on your crying.
    We're nowhere near the end.
    We're nowhere near.
    The best is ready to begin.

    As long as we got each other
    We got the world
    Sitting right in our hands.
    Baby rain or shine;
    All the time.
    We got each other
    Sharing the laughter and love.

    --
    Alan Thicke's Journal
    My Slashdot ads say "
  45. A better hack... by cornice · · Score: 3, Funny

    A better hack would be to make my $30 bike computer store my address book and calendar...

  46. fuckhead moderators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    that was so NOT funny.

  47. Data-capture bike computers by steveha · · Score: 2

    I looked into using a Palm for a bike computer, and concluded that I wasn't very interested. I live in the Seattle area, and I ride in the rain. The BikeBrain solution comes with a plastic protector for your Palm, but it isn't really waterproof.

    The good thing of course is that a Palm can capture a lot of data. But just capturing wheel spin data to show speed and distance isn't enough to make me buy either of these solutions.

    Last autumn I bought myself a Specialized P.Brain computer. I love it; it collects wheel turn data (like the two Palm solutions) and also altitude and heart rate data. A PC interface lets you capture your data and make pretty charts. You can get a graph showing your speed, altitude, and heart rate plotted against either time or distance. Read more about it here.

    The PC download software is for Windows; I'm planning to try to get it working under WINE if I can. The data is stored in some opaque binary format, but you can get the data out with Dan Connelly's Perl script (get it here.

    The P.Brain isn't the only data-collecting bike computer. There are other brands. I have heard good things about the Polar XTrainer. There are even computer systems that directly measure your power output; you have a wheel built with a power-measuring hub, and the computer keeps track of power. Pro riders (including Lance Armstrong) use these. For example, the Power-Tap.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  48. OT: bike weight loss by EchoMirage · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's because you losing five pounds isn't nearly as important as the bike losing a few pounds, especially in rotational weight (rims, spokes, tubes, tires). Pedalling an 18 pound bike versus a 23 pound bike is much easier, regardless of your weight.

  49. The Palm Computer Bicycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bringing new meaning to the term "Computer Crash"

  50. Palm+bike, old, Handspring, circus stuff. by RatOmeter · · Score: 1

    Gee, I feel like I'm missing something here. I *always* use my palm (both of them, actually) when riding a bike.

    When I was a teenager, I knew a guy who could do a _handstand_ on his handlebars, but a handspring?!? Sounds like a good way to wipe out, get hurt and trash your bike to boot!

    .

  51. New? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    These are hardly new... I recall looking at these about 2 1/2 years ago. Neat concept, now that you can pick up used Palm Pilots for almost nothing. Back then, it was a very expensive bike computer option.

    -dc

  52. What you need is http://www.palmhalter.de/ by kettner · · Score: 1

    Take a look at http://www.palmhalter.de/ (its german, use Google to translate it), where a friend of mine shows his own construction to fix a palm on nearly everything, even a bike ...

    -kk-

    1. Re:What you need is http://www.palmhalter.de/ by Halloween+Jack · · Score: 1
      Quote:


      The ultimative mounting plate for its Palm III or V (or IIIx, IIIc, IIIe)

      Shoppen with the Palm?

      Jaja, easily said!



      In hand the Palm, at the other hand the purchase car.

      Only: With what do the products of the shelf take??



      The solution is called: MORE PALMHALTER!

      Wedge the Palm with the PALMHALTER to that

      And already you have grasp of the purchase car a hand freely!



      Gotta love robotranslation.

      --
      I looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked into me--and we both winked.
  53. Dodgeball by Wonko42 · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    Great, so now, not only do I have to dodge stupid bikers riding the wrong way down the right side of the road, begging to be hit by a car. Now I get to dodge retarded bikers riding the wrong way down the right side of the road while using their bicycle PDA. Brilliant.

    I think it's absolutely amazing that I've never hit a bicyclist while driving. No matter how careful I am, there are always morons on bikes doing stupid things, breaking laws, and coming out of nowhere as if trying to make me hit them. I guess the really amazing thing is that they don't get hit more often by people less careful than me.

    1. Re:Dodgeball by notb4dinner · · Score: 1
      ....doing stupid things, breaking laws, and coming out of nowhere....
      This could be just as easily applied to motorists (or society in general if you so wish). This is compounded further by the fact that road laws seem to completely ignore the advanteages of bicycles as a means of transport. Does a bike really need to stop at a red light when planning to turn left, when it can easily slip around without obstructig the flow of traffic. BTW : If you think cyclists make driving a worrying experience you should really try riding a bike in traffic.....
    2. Re:Dodgeball by Wonko42 · · Score: 2
      I agree, motorists should be held to the same standard, however I rarely see motorists driving against traffic in the wrong lane...

      I rode my bike to school for about a year, before I had a driver's license. This involved riding in heavy rush-hour traffic on some of the busiest roads in my area (Beaverton, Oregon if you're curious). I developed a great respect for cars after I hit a patch of ice at an intersection, my bike slipped out from under me, and I ended up sprawled on my stomach in the middle of the busy intersection, with cars swerving and honking and trying not to run me over.

      Now, to their credit, while I tend to have the same animosity towards other drivers as I have towards cyclists, when I was riding my bike to school I don't ever recall an incident where my life was put in danger by something unlawful that a driver did. The only times I was ever in any danger were the times I made a stupid mistake or ignored a traffic law.

      Thus, it really pisses me off when cyclists ignore the laws that are there for their own protection. A lot of cyclists don't seem to understand just how difficult it is even to see them, much less avoid hitting them when they pop out of nowhere. I'm all for bicyclists, but I would really rather not run one over just because they're being stupid.

    3. Re:Dodgeball by gripdamage · · Score: 1

      The busiest roads in Beaverton Oregon must not be very busy if you were never put in danger by a vehicle in a one year period. I would say once or twice a month I am put in fear of my life by motorists. The biggest mistake motorists make is trying to help me out.

      The number one rule for avoiding accidents when driving is BE PREDICTABLE. When out in traffic no one can possibly watch everthing at once, so they are constantly relying on predictions of what other drivers/bicyclists are doing. For some reason motorists think they are doing me some favor by dramatically reducing their speed when I'm waiting to cross the street. What this does is decrease the space between cars behind them trapping me right where I am. And it also is confusing to myself and other drivers, because they failed to do what everyone was expecting them to do.

      Another thing drivers do is stop on roads w/ lanes >2 in the lane closest me, in effect creating a wall between me and other traffic. One of two bike accidents I have seen was a bicyclist crossing in front of a helpful driver who had stopped in the rightmost lane; unfortunately the bicyclist got creamed by a car in the next lane; both the driver and the bicyclist's view of eachother was blocked by the stopped car.

      Another thing drivers do is act like they going to let you go, and then jsut as you start to go, they get impatient and start to go. At this point you get caught in a game of chicken, trying to decide who is going to cross who. I make it a point to never cross a cars direction of travel unless there is an explicit traffic control device giving me the right of way, and even then I'm very cautious.

      Ultimately a bicycle is just another vehicle, and no one needs to be more responsible for my safety then me. This is why bicycles must obey the same traffic laws as cars. Cars yielding the right-of-way unexpectedly when they wouldn't for another vehicle screw up everybody.

      Something bicyclists do that annoys me when I'm driving is choosing the narrowist roads to bike on.

      On the way to the university in my town there is a bike route; it is on a residential street and signs restrict traffic to residents only. The road is extra wide, has it's own traffic signals which detect bicyclists, and is always kept smoothly paved. Two blocks south is a busy but narrow street I drive to/from the univeristy on in my car. Invariably when I am driving home some idiot bicyclist has chosen to risk his life (and everyone else's) on the narrow busy street instead of taking the bicycle route two blocks away.

      I guess the point is, there sure are a lot of idiots out there, and I don't think a PDA is going help or hurt that situation.

  54. PDA power by Kizzle · · Score: 1

    It would be nice if there was a thing that would attach to your weal to power your pda.