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PS2 Linux Kit Shipping in May
subharmonic writes: "Sony announced through an e-mail that the Linux PS2 kits were available for pre-order. The kits should be shipped May 22nd. There's a FAQ and a order site."
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Could I write this off on my taxes for my home office
What's the point? Would you use it to do stuff other then games? Or is it strictly a BOO microsoft kinda thing.
for anyone who cares...
Many thanks for expressing your interest in Linux(for PlayStation 2) on
our website (http://www.technology.scee.net/).
We're happy to announce that Linux will be released in May in both the
USA (SCEA) and PAL territories (including Europe and Australia), with
full information and screenshots now to be found on our site.
In addition, a joint website for interested users has been set up at
http://playstation2-linux.com, which includes discussion and bulletin
boards.
Finally, although sales haven't yet started, if you send an e-mail with
the message "subscribe" to ps2linux-request@technology.scee.net we'll
let you know when pre-ordering starts.
Many thanks again,
Sony Computer Entertainment Europe
What exactly is the point of this? I know we've gone over this before in previous Linux PS2 articles, but it never really seems to add up. If you want to play games, you buy a console. If you are the type of person who wants to run Linux (and has a broadband connection to use the PS2's ethernet adapter), then you already have a computer (and you probably consider it and its brothers/sisters members of your family). If you don't, then you're probably experiencing phantom pains.
The problem I see is that the PS2 + Linux kit isn't really cheap enough to justify itself, except for the nerd-factor. It's a lot of money, and for what? So your lazy ass doesn't have to walk to the other room to check Slashdot during a break in your gaming?
It certainly isn't for the wealth of Linux gaming software. So what gives? Is this another "just because I can" deal? Doesn't building your own box appeal more to people who think that way?
visit the hwky website for a lyrical genius infusion.
IBM is been embracing Linux for a while now.
It's good to hear that linux is being embraced by a more consumer level oriented company.
SWEET!!!
Sony's NOW supporting PS/2 for Linux!! YES, now I can use all those mice and keyboard's that didn't work in Linux!!!!
What? It's the Console Playstation 2? Shit! What have I been saving all these fscking keyboards and mice? NOW YOU TELL ME.
Total retail cost of a minimal system is:
PS/2 -- $299.99
8MB card -- $29.99
Linux Kit-- $199.99
== $529.97
Monitor not included, however you must have a monitor on hand to install, after install you can use TV.
Not so cheap, but cool as an *upgrade* to an existing system.
Kill proccesses with the X button on the PS2 controller.
Combine X with L2 and you will have a kill -9
Ah, such is a sign of the times, where the kids don't have enough attention span to realize that all of their items are for the PS2.
I mean, seriously, do the USB keyboard and mice NOT work on other devices or something?
A new 1.2Ghz PC from Gateway is only $489 without monitor.
What is on the DVD discs ?
DISC 1
The PlayStation 2 Runtime Environment
PlayStation 2 System Manuals
DISC 2
The Linux operating system
Kernel version 2.2.1 (my emphasis)
Xfree86 X-Windows version 3.3.6 with support for PlayStation 2 Graphics Synthesizer
GCC 2.95.2 and GLIBC 2.2.2
An alpha version of Mesa 3D supporting limited graphics acceleration
PlayStation 2 Development Libraries, device drivers, tools and sample code
Particularly old kernel, with plenty of known bugs and issues that likely aren't fixed. The other utils are reasonably old as well (gcc 2.95.2, not 2.95.3). Why not at least 2.2.18? Inquiring minds etc.
RW
Wonder if they'll port the Doom process manager to it.
Congratulations! You killed init!
And for a split second Slashdot users everywhere rejoiced, thinking that the subscription income actually had persuaded editors to actually post comments...but then they saw his grammar was good, typos weren't everywhere...and noticed his UID.
At least, that's what happened to me.
I think this is going to be a great opportunity for people wanting to "get into" Linux but who don't want to commit the resources neccessary for converting a normal system to Linux. I myself have been wanting to run a dedicated Linux box for a while, but dual booting my main system is out of the question, and I don't have any spare boxes laying around. Now my PS2 can be a valuable part of my home network between sessions of GTA3 and FFX.
I hope a lot of other gamer/geeks will take this opportunity as well - it's a good chance to learn more about the PS2 as well as Linux. Now if only I could get it to be my dedicated RtCW server...
Unless, of course, scissors can't cut rock...
You think there's a 5 1/4" bay free?
Also...thinking about this more....not only can it not read cd-r's, but it can't read regular cds either!
Everything has to be downloaded.... bleh
Either that or we're all going to have to invest in DVD burners!
-kwishot
Are you really gonna store all of these mame titles on CD or DVD though? Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a nice little gui to load your mame titles off the local HDD or off your local network shares somewhere. You can back them up your own way so that you'll have them forever.
As far as retail titles go, I share the same concerns, what do the manufacturers do if your CD ends up scratched or something else? Are you SOL? Are you able to send it back and get a new one?
Sony is screwing itself with this risky legal move!
Although the legality of archiving copy-protected computer programs under the backup clause of copyright law was established in the 1988 Vault v. Quaid legal dispute, "general purpose" computing devices are permitted lots of special treatment vs. game consoles.
Regular issue, game console software (N64, Dreamcast, PSX, PS2, Gameboy) is freely rentable at Blockbuster and other rental stores.
And Sony dislikes this.
Although ENTERTAINMENT software is rentable under fair use doctrine of cpyright law, and Wintel game titles are freely rentable at some brave stores, pc software straddles the legal line. Utilities are rarely rented.
Sony hates the chips that allow PS2 to run archived backup copies from CDR and DVD-RAM. Some of these chips are NEO, NEO4, and Messiah. Some solutions require no soldering at all, some require as many as 25 wires. But Sony wants US Customs to strongarm all importer-resellers and private citizens.
NEO4 plays any region DVD and BOOTs copies including PAL ackups. But most people go for as few a wire solution as possible access backups their valuable game media. Many PS@ backup solutions use a cheap Boot OS such as a GameShark CD or a competitor of GameShark. So a person usually needs to buy a chip, a boot cd, and a PS2.
And they use DMCA to do it. But the moment they try to restrict Blockbuster by claiming that the PS2 is now functionally a "GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTING DEVICE" complete with keyboard and Linux-OS they will legally screw themselves.
Why?
Because once it runs a general purpose OS, it is no longer treated as a game conole by law and the free sale of archiving software and archiving hardware is 100% legal. US Citizens have legal rights to make backups of their own general purpose software (within reason)
So to bottle up Blockbuster, Sony's stupid little gambit will open floodgates to allow people to widely have access to software and hardware backup tools.
I thinks Sony made a huge mistake in their greedy miscalculated rush.
Sony does pay consultants to log into Remarq (supernews) directly to delete PS2 binaries direclty (or parts, or insert spoffed parts). Other pay-fee usenet servers are mostly immune but post-deletion wars are rampant the last 60 days. But PS2 backups can be found usually all over the place.
I do not own a PS2 by the way. I only believe in emulations and emulating hardware to run my legally purchased software, including PSX (PS-1).
sigh....
People never mod anonymous tipsters regularly anymore so few may read this opinion, but slashdot used to work well and moderators used to read level 0, but so many angry and upset people seem to lash out with trolling to make being anon a sad task.
-anon
CmdrTaco said:
"I really admire the fact that Sony decided to include support for PS1 games in the PS2, I think it's a major reason why it has been so successful (not to mention that fact that it is vastly superior to the competition). Once the Linux kit starts shipping, people will be able to port their own emulation kits for various console systems to the PS2. Then it would surely be worth the $299 plus whatevever the kit costs. I know the dreamcast took off with the Linux kit, with people writing emulators for MAME, SNES, etc. With this option the PS2 would become a virtual home entertainment center."
Well, considering that Nintendo slit thier own throats by NOT being able to play DVD's, they had to challenge Microsoft somehow. MS could play DVD's and thier software ports to the xBox easily. MS had no holding in the console side of stuff until xBox, however they had PC games. However, PC's are known to easily crash (under Windows). Sony had no choice BUT to support PS1 games. Since they did, people still buy PS1 games and buy the newer PS2 games made for that console.
Now on to the question of Devel tools... I highly doubt that they will release any medium or high power devel tools on this platform. Their boot code is highly secret. Do you think they'll let ANYBODY except themselves even look at a dead listing of it? Don't think so. They'll probably find a way to get fairly powerful tools, but no accessable kernel drivers. They would have to totally restrict kernel accesses.
CmdrTaco said:
"I bought a Nintendo as soon as I had earned enough money (paper routes, drug dealing, and all those other fun childhood fundraising activities). But, the system only lasted for a couple years before the cartridges got dirty. The playstation would allow me to play those old games that I legitatemately bought on a real console system, not on those lame PC emulation programs."
Simple, Ignore the warnings on the back of the carts and use alcohol and q-tips to clean the connectors. The only reason for that "disclaimer" is so they can rip you off on thier over-priced cartridge cleaner kits. And last, please explain why "Emulation programs" are lame? Is it because you don't understand how they work? Many emulators are open source, so you can see how that idiot-game-box truly works. Many papers on emulation also contain pin-outs so you can MAKE your own devices.
CmdrTaco said:
"Then, around 1992, the same thing happened, I eventually saved up enough money to buy a Super Nintendo. I remember the price, it was exactly $216.25, because of the 8.25% sales tax in California those days. I bought it at Target and I had about $50 in nickels and the rest in ones and fives. I've never seen a cashier so unhappy about their job! It took about 20 minutes for her to count it all, but soon after I was on my way toward bliss..until the cartridges died that is."
That implementation of a Apple 2 GS processor 658(c)16 encouraged some of the best programming praticies ever made. If you rebind the sound (or just turn it off), these programs will run on the apple. But wait, emulation is lame. Oh, right. the Apple 2 gs was the native hardware, with exception of a 8 channel sound card (Sony spc700 processor) vs the standard 32 channel (was it GUS ?). The only 2 games to have 48 mBit carts had voice in parts of them, and one had a whole song, with full singing (Tales of Phantasia). With emulation, it was translated to English by DeJap. Even the vocal tracs are being worked on to a 100% English version. Now Thats Lame.
CmdrTaco said:
"That's one thing that makes me skeptical of this whole CD based console system trend. I know CD's have become the standard, there's no denying that, but I believe they are a lot more fragile than carts. Yeah, I know carts don't like magnets (what electronics do?), but CD's are scratched so damn easily, not to mention the fact that they fly so far when I throw them in anger because of my latest loss. I'd rather see the console systems move toward a more proprietary standard like magneto-optical disks with protective caddies."
You're right, CD's are more fragile. However, carts are not hurt by normal magnetic fields. The RAM can be disrupted by mildly weak EMP. Still, I can't believe you'd actually SUPPORT a proprietary CD caddy!!! If you've used computers fmore than 3 years, you'd know that older CD-ROM drives and Mac drives used this EXACT THING. Except, no idiot has to copyright the shape. Too bad, that nobody sold thier CD's with these caddies. The caddies were the case.
CmdrTaco said:
"The first thing I sold on ebay was a magneto-optical drive, if my memory serves me correctly it had 250 MB disks and sold for a little over $150. Look at the progress we've made! Of course, m.o. has become quite out of fashion what with the increasing speed of CD-R drives and cheapness of media. Soon, at least if Sony has their way, we'll have DVD+RW drives in every machine, enabling us to store up to 4.7 GB of pure pleasure per disk at a cost of only $3.99. Oh joy, imagine running RedHat 7.2 with all packages installed from CD (assuming you have enough memory)!"
Ugh. If Sony had thier way, that DVD+RW will have Public Key crypto with the motherboard. Yeah, right. You seem to forget true alligeances all too easily. Sony is our ENEMY, as they wish to LIMIT our freedom by strong-arming us. This Linux on PS2 is tripe too. The hardware included in the "Linux PS2 kit can easily be had for 100$ US, yet they sell the kit for 200$. I thought the GPL prevented selling its software for -profit-. If Sony actually decides to treat us like customers, insetad of milk cows, I'll support them.
In thier state of mind though, Screw 'em. Hard.
Somehow I doubt that you could use the Linux dev kit to make the PS2 play copied PS2 games. A PSX emulator, maybe but I don't think that you'll get it to "boot" to play the game natively.
I think that the warning given is a little misleading. Someone might misread it to think that the PS2 cannot read CD-R media at all to the point where you couldn't mount CD-R discs under Linux -- that's not the case, the system can actually read the media, it just won't boot games from them (without physical modificaiton).
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
This may be harder than it sounds since the kernel's not directly accessing the hardware, but a "runtime environment" that's designed explicitly to hide the hardware and do only what they'll allow it to. The drive is probably one of those dvd readers that couldn't read cdrs if it tried, and no ammount of tweaking will fix.
Now with linux available Sadam Hussien can finally find a use for all thise PS's he supposedly got diverted to himself for weapons modeling :) hehe...
hey I find it amusing!
For the same price ($300 + $200) you could get a much more powerful headless PC to use as a Linux render box. Even if you already have the PS2, for $200 it's relatively easy to find a decent used PII or Celeron machine that is Mhz for Mhz about the same as a PS2. Of course that doesn't mean too much since we haven't seen the PS2 in action, but do consider it... and you don't have to wait until May for that.
But do you want a cd-rom hanging out of the side of your ps2?
Aesthetics, man. "Hey man I'll bring over my ps2...just hold it straight so all of the parts don't fall out"
Replacing the existing drive would probably be a futile attempt....I'm sure it's proprietary enough that it just wouldn't work (e.g. reading ps2 discs, etc)
Another poster also said that the media should be readable if you mount it properly. They make the drive...you think they can't cripple it to see or not to see certain media? It's proprietary, man, they can do whatever the heck they want.
In short, a cd-rom drive would likely work, but unless you feel like having it hang out the side, or doing some surgery and making it fit in a (probably already tight) ps2 case, go for it.
But removing native support is just dumb on sonys part.
-kwishot
As far as I know, you don't get to develop against hardware accelerated PS2 graphics. The hardware abstraction layer that is on the boot DVD-ROM works like a BIOS and abstracts all the calls to the hardware. A Linux driver provides an unaccelerated frame buffer, and that's all you get.
I have a feeling that any low-level stuff is sufficiently prohibited.
Also, I doubt you'll be able to recompile a new kernel and load it. There is probably some binary signature thing that the boot disc checks.
There's no reason to get all excited. Sony isn't opening up their system. Some people just think that's what's happening.
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
No. PS2/Linux will only run Linux programs. Any PS2/Linux program will run on any other Linux machine with the same device abstraction layer by recompiling (for example to x86/Linux or PPC/Linux).
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
Actually, if you read the FAQ, there are detailed manuals included for the Graphics Synthesizer, the Emotion Engine, VU0 and VU1, the DMA controller, and the mpeg2 decoder. Which is pretty damn low-level.
They say you can compile a new kernel and put it in if you want to port it. The only thing the hardware abstraction layer keeps you from doing is reading anything other than a genuine PSX or PS2 CD or DVD. Which shouldn't be a big problem for anyone other than pirates, given that there's a 10/100 ethernet adaptor and a 40gb hard drive included. You can rip your own music and such on your pc, then transfer it over to the ps2.
While it's not completely open, I understand Sony's reasons for disabling access to the dvd drive if there's anything other than an official disc in there. It'd be very easy to program a linux software mod otherwise.
-- Your IP is showing
It's a bit of a running joke (for PlayStation 2). I've even seen a Sony tech who was informally answering a question consistently refer to it as a memory card (8 MB) (for PlayStation 2), so their spellchecker may well be adding it by now.
The GPL does not prevent profit! it just says that you have to release the source code if you modify the code.
BTW, the kits includes hw and sw, some sw is not GPLed and the kit also includes manuals on programming the PS2 low level ( assembly and whatnot) Anyway, you don't care cause you just want to bad mouth companies. Expecting a company to do something that is not in it's best intrest is just naive.
Won't sell more than 10 or 20 thousand of them? Are you nutz? Sony Japan has consistently sold out of stock on several occasions the kits are damned near impossible to get. Fortunately, I got in on a preorder back in February and am expecting my kit to arrive on April 24th!
:-D Plus with the SDL port, I might be able to play games like flightgear or watch movies on my 25" TV instead of my 17" LCD monitor.
It will make a great secondary storage server and churn away on SETI while its archiving my files for me.
The hardware abstraction layer was put in place to preserve and slightly extend the PS2 copy protection scheme. It wouldn't exactly be a trivial matter to remove that protection, but it is possible. Sony knows this.
A few of the SCEA dev support people chat on the forums on playstation2-linux.com. Bret Mogilefsky, also known as mogul, posted to this thread, saying:
Hey! FlightGear is more than a game! Our next release is really gonna kick ass. There have been
a lot of cool additions since the last one (just after LWCE), like articulated models and a virtual cockpit. Oh, and FWIW FGFS doesn't use SDL it uses plib so it's not out of the realm of possiblity that you may see some of the other games that use that.
Actually, Cartridges have no problem with magnets. They are read-only and cannot be written to. They can also be frozen, thrown off of the roof, and dipped into a rather dirty pool. They like cats. The only thing they don't like is having their contacts worn down, which is apparently what caused all of the old NES problems.
I can understand your worries about CD's... I lost a copy of Silpheed to a mechanical pencil and a glob of mayo. However, the Playstation shipped with what Sony branded as 10 X oversampling... which is a fancy way of saying that the pits were really deep. While, say, a burned copy of Silent Hill has to be constantly coddled to work with the slightest surface blemish, we've taken pocketknives to copies of Parappa and they still ran just fine (ymmv). While an MO disk with a protective caddy is hardly any safer than a DVD in a caddy, it would be a heck of a lot more expensive, and bulkier.
If you are worried about your games, keep a modded playstation around and upload your collection to one of the 100 gig drives out there, or back them up to tape. That way, you can re-burn them any time you want to play again. And by the way, Nintendo had a fleeting affair with a MO drive in Japan (the DD or "Bulky Drive"). Yamauchi said they learned a lot from that encounter, and that they would never do that again.
The ______ Agenda
Ok, I don't own a PS/2. I have a PS/1, most of the games for which I haven't beaten (Linux is my toy instead ;-) so this may be my reason to get a PS/2. I can finally play GTA3 and still mess around with Linux. It'd also be a nice way to play with OpenGL stuff too. Wow... I'll have to seriously ponder this one! Sure, my opinion doesn't reflect market forces, but what the hell do I care? It's a PS/2! Plus, I can play stuff like frozen bubble and chromium on it and never leave Linux. Fuck the market and the big picture and Sony's potential revenue. I want one!
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Their drive and system does not support CDRs without a modchip, it has nothing to do with software. Therefore it is a hardware issue, not software, and no Linux modification had to be done. I hope that clears it up for you.
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Hmm, I bet Sony didn't think of that ONE MINOR DETAIL. I always like it when people think they're individually smarter than hundreds of designers and engineers at multibillion dollar corporations. I'm sure this is disabled in the hardware, and besides, the disks have to be booted off of to play. Also, I'm glad to hear that PS2 games support the same rendering techniques as those required to display graphics in XWindows, b/c I just thought it communicated directly with the hardware. Kudos on optimism, but I'm going to remain skeptical here.
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If only there was a way to get fully supported hardware acceleration for graphics outside of a $200 proprietary hardware kit.. Wait a second, my GeForce2 can run circles around the ancient PS2 jaggies and has a set of open libraries I can code against for game development.
I really don't understand why anyone would get so excited about this outside of the "geek factor." To me, it is a clear ploy by Sony to increase their hipness status in the tech community and to potentially even increase sales. They're not doing this for the public good, and I don't see useful applications for having a proprietary old console with 32MB RAM running Linux for an extra fee. Perhaps other people on here have higher disposable incomes than I do, I guess, and wish to turn as much of it as possible over to Sony.
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I'm thinking it'll make a great thin client for my TV set. plus, I'll keep my music on that HD and NFS it to my other systems. there is a digital audio output for connecting to the stereo, I'm hoping it'll be supported under Linux.
It would've been nice if the keyboard/mouse was a one piece combo unit with wireless and a universal remote built in to control the stereo. Running an Xsession over 100BaseT ethernet should be No problem.
it's going to be a nice way to get online and interact with TV shows that have live chat with the Picture-in-Picture on the TV set. Lookout Leo, I'm going to be on TechTV Live with a webcam on my PS2 under Linux, then I'll be REALLY COOL.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Will your item play legal import CD and DVD's without needing a GS/AR?
GTRacer
- And here I am waiting on an eBayed Japanese PS2...
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
I couldn't agree more. This shot through my mind the moment I heard of a Linux kit. 40Gig drive leaves plenty of space available.
Really looking forward to it...
Cheers,
Ian
You need a memory card, and once its formatted for linux, it can't be used for Ps2 games. Also, you can use the hard drive for PS2 games, but i think the network adapter is ok (no dial up on the BBA that comes with the linux kit).
All in all, i think you'd be better off with a dreamcast. Everything is a lot cheaper, so when you're sick of it in a month, you haven't invested a lot of money into it...
Of course... sony definitly wants to limit what users can do. Don't forget, this is their system and their rules. Especially due to the fact that their is no system remotely like it. And why the hell would you want to turn it into a media player? Or even an emulator? PS2 is the best system I've seen yet... why would I want to downgrade it? Some people have the strangest ideas.
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
...can now have a cheap Beowulf Cluster super computer...
I know this post was a joke, but clustering of PS2s using Linux is something that actally *has* been attempted with some moderate success. Rumor has it that NCSA had a working two-node cluster as a proof of concept. I can't find any links to pictures or anything, but maybe someone else here has more info on it, or was even there for this.
IIRC, the biggest issues with using PS2s in this sort of an application was the extremely limited bandwidth between them. Having powerful, dedicated graphics processors running in parallel could lead to some interesting things, though!
It's only software!
The problem is, I doubt the ps2 linux kit will work well for game development at all. I imagine that all the specialized processors will be nearly useless to joe programmer. It won't be easy to access all of them. And to really make the ps2 fly, you have to.
The other problem, which most people don't realize when they want to program consoles, is how limited these things are. The ps2 has 32 megs of ram. Now that may sound like a fair amount, but remember.. theres no swap memory. On a PC you can get by with 64 because of swap. But on the ps2, you have to not only fit into 32 megs (which isn't much once you get some art!), you have to repeatedly fit, meaning you can't fragment your memory. This is just one of the *minor* problems.
PS2 programming is considered some of the hardest console programming there is. Not sure I would recommend it to anyone. Plus you'd have to pay sony licensing fees to do it legally (I think). I would recommend just writing games on the PC. Its a lot easier. =)
"Of all days, the day on which one has not laughed is the most surely the one wasted." -Sebastian Roch Nicol
You're certainly right in that there are individuals who have achieved great things and have broken encryption schemes by many a company. I was certainly not making light of individual effort, but rather of the sense blind sense of optimism that b/c Linux is an open sourced system, surely someone will find a way to get these games to work under XWindows. As I pointed out, not only are the games themselves still encrypted, but also the graphics output here is competely different, and there has never been a completely working PS emulator that looked the same or worked for all games. Therefore, I think you are correct overall, but in this particular case, it's a very uphill struggle. Where's Linux on Xbox again? After all, that's just a standard PC, right? Or so the optimists claimed last year.
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> DX/OGL + PS2 = X-box...with native DVD support!
Not quite. There are some OpenGL features that will *never* be supported on the PS2 (because the hardware doesn't support them *at all*,) and others that are dog-slow. (Check out "ps2gl" if you need more info)
i.e. lack of blending modes, reading back the frame buffer, faking a stencil buffer via alpha tricks, etc
I wish the PS2 had better OpenGL support, but the hardware unfortunately wasn't designed for it.
If not, Sony is really missing out on a good opportunity here. The DreamCast had such a capability.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.