GTK+ 2.0

Bonus: refer to previous article for compilation by forged · 2002-03-10 00:41 · Score: 1

Isn't it ironic that this article (23 seconds kernel compile) was posted just before the GTK+ 2.0 article, knowing that compiling GTK+ probably requires just about as much time to compile as the Linux kernel ?

But then, there are Qt, Gnome, KDE ... Doh, need more CPU :)

Wow.. by Warped-Reality · 2002-03-10 00:41 · Score: 3, Interesting

I tried the devel branch for 2.0 not too long ago, it turned out to be hideously unstable... have they really fixed all of those bugs in such a short period of time?

--
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.

Re:Wow.. by chabotc · 2002-03-10 00:59 · Score: 5, Informative

Actualy, yes a amazing amount of bugs have been fixed in the last months and weeks. Ofcource it is worth keeping in mind this is a .0 release. So all critical bugs should've been found and fixed, but there's bound to be a slew of little ones left.

More exiting though, is the fact that they can now begin on the next gtk release, which amongst other things will include a new file selector (open / save, etc) dialog ! This is something that a _lot_ of users are hoping and waiting for.

(check http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2002 -March/msg00179.html for notes on the file selector.
Re:Wow.. by biwillia · 2002-03-10 01:09 · Score: 1

Here is a link that works.

Ben
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 01:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Man have attitudes changed. I remember the days when we worked on projects ".0" releases meant "we fixed everything we could." These days ".0" releases mean "We put it out, now let's find the bugs"
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 02:35 · Score: 0

Indeed. As a software tester, its quite worrying that OSS development either a) Never manages to get past 0.x development or b) Assumes that small bugs don't matter.

As you say, a .0 release should be "Its been tested, we can't find any more bugs, here it is" To be more accurate, you should have a set of release criteria, which can include a number of Medium or Low priority bugs. You should, of course, follow that release criteria.

The colour of the sky is yellow on my planet, in case anyone is wondering. Sigh.
Re:Wow.. by chegosaurus · 2002-03-10 02:41 · Score: 1

I agree with that entirely. On Solaris GTK-1.3.15 is pretty much unusable, segfaulting all over the place.

I'm on a bit of a downer though, having spent *ages* building GTK-1.3 and the GNOME-2 beta and finding roughly every other operation I try causes a crash. :-(
Re:Wow.. by tal197 · 2002-03-10 03:09 · Score: 2

I agree with that entirely. On Solaris GTK-1.3.15 is pretty much unusable, segfaulting all over the place.
I'm on a bit of a downer though, having spent *ages* building GTK-1.3 and the GNOME-2 beta and finding roughly every other operation I try causes a crash. :-(
Is that GNOME or Gtk, though? The GNOME stuff is only beta...
What happens if you run the gtk-demo program supplied with Gtk? I've been tracking the development versions for quite a while (not on Solaris, though) and I've found it pretty stable.
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 03:49 · Score: 0

Indeed.

Free software folk are more concerned about marketing nowadays. I think the turning point was GIMP 1.0. People used to not care about some stupid version number. It _used_ to be used as a means of determining if one version was newer than another. Emphasis is now placed on who gets to version 2.0 faster, etc.
Re:Wow.. by GooberToo · 2002-03-10 03:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

...have they really fixed all of those bugs in such a short period of time?

Based on their previous track record for older versions of GTK+, it will be another year or two before the code base stabalizes. And if you report a bug to them, they'll probably tell you to fix it your self or wait for the 3.x series.
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 04:08 · Score: 0

I can tell you from past experience that using GTK+ can be somewhat painful. They tend to not demo portions of code which highlight bugs. Funny how their use of GTK+ never seems to reflect how one would actually use GTK+. That is, if the full range of features were to be tested, they'd tend to find all their segfaults and bugs without having to wait 8-months for them to fix a bug which should of been fixed or at least discovered near the beginning .0 cycle.
Re:Wow.. by tal197 · 2002-03-10 04:22 · Score: 2

I can tell you from past experience that using GTK+ can be somewhat painful. They tend to not demo portions of code which highlight bugs.
Yes, but I've been updating ROX-Filer to work with the Gtk+-1.3.x series since 1.3.6, so it has had real-world testing (from many other people's programs, too).
The current CVS snapshots should work with Gtk+-2.0 if you want some 'proper' testing (although obviously this is the CVS copy, so usual disclaimers apply).
Of course, they didn't fix all the bugs for 2.0, as they're desparate to get GNOME-2 out, but I haven't seen any major problems in Gtk+-2.0 yet, or in the release candidate.
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 04:53 · Score: 1, Insightful

There are a lot of people depending upon this library, and to just not release it for months and months due to trivial bugs would be much worse, and it would get just as many clueless Slashdotters bitching about it.

Applications like GIMP don't suffer from this problem so much because everything in the world doesn't depend upon them. If GTK 2.0 never got released onto the world because there is some obscure bug that only affects Irix users with a certain configuration, or something ridiculous like that, then applications like GIMP and GNOME could never release their next versions either.

GTK 2.0 fixes everything that needs to be fixed, leaving the minor details for later so that people can begin linking applications against the new libglib-2.0.so and such.
Re:Wow.. by chegosaurus · 2002-03-10 06:42 · Score: 1

To be fair it is mostly the Gnome stuff that's failing, but I've had a few crashes which I *think* are down to glib/gtk.

Now I've played with the new GTK some more I think I should say I was somewhat harsh earlier. I can't crash the gtk demos, and the gtk-2 based Gimp is pretty solid.

That said, I'm still very disappointed with the flakiness of the GNOME beta, especially compared to say, the first KDE-3 beta. And that's *NOT* flamebait - just my personal observation!
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 07:26 · Score: 0

if I had mod points I'd mod you as a troll.
Re:Wow.. by spudnic · 2002-03-10 07:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

The main three things that annoy me about many open/save dialogs that I encounter are the inability to create new directories, no tab (or some other) completion, and the inconsistancies between them. Sure, let all the folks create their own systems, but at least create a common API at some level so that if I'm using a KDE app in Gnome I get the standard Gnome open save dialogs.

It really shouldn't be that hard, especially for something as simple as this.

Now don't even get me started on clipboards... ;)

--
load "linux",8,1
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 08:55 · Score: 0

The file browser has tab completion, man.
Re:Wow.. by Havoc+Pennington · 2002-03-10 11:40 · Score: 2

Well actually at least half the GTK bugs are found when users report them to bugzilla. I'm sure you did that right?

If you don't think the demos coincide with how one would actually use GTK, maybe you aren't using GTK as intended...
Re:Wow.. by Havoc+Pennington · 2002-03-10 11:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

Some quick bugzilla.gnome.org queries would demonstrate with hard evidence that you are
incorrect, if anyone were interested in reality.
Wait, this is Slashdot. ;-)

(Apparently I'm in an answer-the-trolls mood...)
Re:Wow.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 13:50 · Score: 0

KDE 3 is mainly just porting to the new Qt. Gnome 2 is a major platform change on the order of KDE1->2. Gnome 2 beta (at least on Linux) is looking far more stable then KDE 2's betas were. It took a few point releases past KDE 2.0 release before things got solid; I hope GNOME can do better, but as with most .0 releases, you have to expect a few problems.
Re:Wow.. by ethereal · 2002-03-11 03:26 · Score: 1

The worst thing I see is a lack of a consistent way to select whether dotfiles are shown or not. I'd really like to turn these off so that my wife doesn't have to page past the ~100 config files in her home directory to get to her StarOffice docs, etc. but I can't turn this off in StarOffice, in Netscape, or in the standard GTK fileselection box. If you want to talk about a simple UI difference that is annoying to almost all ex-Windows users, this is it. Application programs (that wouldn't normally open dotfiles) should be set up by default to hide dotfiles, and allow the user to uncheck the box in order to see them - anyone who really wants to open a dotfile would know to change the setting in order to see them, anyway.

--
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Re:Wow.. by GooberToo · 2002-03-13 06:10 · Score: 2

hehe

Reality is exactly as I put it. They had bugs in their linked list implementations for a VERY long time. When I contacted the developers about this, they told me they knew about it and that it had already been fixed in the current development tree. I asked about a patch for the current "stable" (which had lots of other causes for it to crash too). I was told to fix it my self or wait until they got around to it. Furthermore, they said they probably wouldn't get around to it because the next major release was out "ANY TIME NOW". Wow, two years later, here it is. The bug that they knew was there for over 4 months since I reported it, was finally fixed a total of 8 months after it was known to exist.

Take your queries and come back to planet earth were reality and experince matters.

Excellent! But... by Emil+Brink · 2002-03-10 00:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

As the developer and maintainer of a little GTK+-based application (plug, plug), I see this is very good news, of course. But whoa, it's going to be a lot of work porting over... Using the deprecated widgets is an impossibility for any self-respecting maintainer, imo. ;^) Also, I sure do hope they managed to get the speed up a bit from the 1.3.x series... That was really underwhelming. Which was sad, since 1.2.x is very snappy.

--
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}

Re:Excellent! But... by cyborch · 2002-03-10 01:24 · Score: 2, Informative

here is a nice list of changes from version 1.2 to 2.0.
Re:Excellent! But... by JanneM · 2002-03-10 01:42 · Score: 2, Informative

I've found that a lot of the slowness of gtk+2 that I saw was due to the use of AA. Turns out xft isn't the snappiest piece of code around when it's antialiasing. Turn off AA, and things are a lot smoother again.

/Janne

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Excellent! But... by GigsVT · 2002-03-10 02:38 · Score: 1

Turn off AA, and things are a lot smoother again.

Haha, did you ever realize the word play there?

--
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Re:Excellent! But... by Anders · 2002-03-10 03:07 · Score: 0, Offtopic

As the developer and maintainer of a little GTK+-based application (plug, plug),
I was a user of your Gentoo file manager and can highly recommend it (since I am an old Amiga user :-), but I stopped caring to download it all the time. Is there any hope of getting it into Linux distributions?
Also high on my list of applications that ought to be in distributions, but are not, is the visual system monitor qps.
Do distributors have a "suggestion form" that one can fill out to request an application included in new versions?
Re:Excellent! But... by high · 2002-03-10 03:37 · Score: 1

I dont know what Linux distribuion you use, but I use debian and Im very pleased with it. It is one of the biggest distribution Ive heard.

Anyway check out your packages and they exist in all branches. Take a look for yourself at:

http://packages.debian.org/gentoo
http://packag es.debian.org/qps
Re:Excellent! But... by JanneM · 2002-03-10 04:20 · Score: 1

Haha, did you ever realize the word play there?

Yes, I certainly did, and had to restrain myself to avoid doing something incredibly cheesy with it. :)

/Janne

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Excellent! But... by Emil+Brink · 2002-03-10 08:25 · Score: 4, Interesting
Well, now I've downloaded all the four libs and actually stresed my machine through building and installing it. The classic testgtk application that serves as a rather comprehensive demo of the various capabilities program is still around. And it's not anti-aliased on my machine (no xft, as far as I know), so even if turning that off helps, I'm still not happy. It's really annoying, since there's not that much visible improvement, although I'm sure everything is nice and new under the hood.

While typing this up, I had this brilliant idea: there are these things known as "benchmarks" which replace vague bitching with hard numbers... Aha!

I dove into the testgtk.c source, for both this new 2.0.0 release, and the last stable release, 1.2.10. In the "clist" demo (which is very interesting to me, since my app (mentioned in the thread root) uses GtkCList heavily), I added simple instrumentation to measure the time to add 1,000 rows with pixmaps. The results, based on running the code 10 times, dropping the min and max, and averaging the remaining 8 values:
- GTK+ 1.2.10: 0.081 s
- GTK+ 2.0.0: 0.787 s
Difference: a factor of 9.6 slower. Ouch. Oh, and please note that these times are for the "core" loop of the test case, which is enclosed in calls to gtk_clist_freeze() and gtk_clist_thaw(), meaning (afaik) that this does not include the time it takes for GTK+ to actually render the list. It's the internal bookkeeping only. Can you say "dramatically slower"? I know I can.
The annoying thing with this 10X performance loss is that my next machine isn't all that likely to be 10X faster than my current one; it's simply too large a step. Bummer.

There, I think I've ranted enough on the topic for this moment. Thanks for listening. :^)
--
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
Re:Excellent! But... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 09:11 · Score: 1, Informative

Your test was based on the GtkCList widget, which is deprecated in GTK+ 2.0. It's probably not a very good test.
Re:Excellent! But... by rendler · 2002-03-10 12:48 · Score: 1

That should be a non-issue, when QT first had AA it was dead slow with any apps that I turned it on for, but now I don't notice any speed difference between having AA and not in opera (and other apps). Blaming xft on gtk's slowness with AA isn't the be all and end all, sounds like the AA in gtk still needs more work. Also my machine is a 166Mhz so I would think that any changes in the speed would be noticed immediately.

--

*shrug*
Re:Excellent! But... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 14:33 · Score: 0

The _only_ distro is debian anyway, get used to it.

Re:Bonus: refer to previous article for compilatio by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 01:01 · Score: 0

I find your understanding of irony somewhat lacking.

Real (draft) release notes by tal197 · 2002-03-10 01:02 · Score: 5, Informative

The linked message only talks about proposed changes to the draft release notes... here are the release notes themselves (also draft):

Draft release notes for Gtk

Re:Bonus: refer to previous article for compilatio by jonathan_ingram · 2002-03-10 01:14 · Score: 0, Offtopic

It's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.
It's a death-row pardon 10 minutes too late.
It's like rain on your wedding day.

It's like a song about irony where every single example was not ironic.

--
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.

New font system by tal197 · 2002-03-10 01:21 · Score: 5, Informative

One of the main new features is the completely new font system:

Everything is in UTF-8 (so no more charset headaches :-)
AA fonts using XRENDER (do GDK_USE_XFT=1; export GDK_USE_XFT in your .xsession to enable them).
Sane font-chooser dialog, where you just select the font name, weight and size, instead of the previous multi-paned mess.
Lots of routines for laying out paragraphs, positioning text cursors, etc, for people doing their own text layout.

On the negative side, the new font system seems much slower than before. Also it's completely incompatible with Gtk+-1.2, so anyone working with fonts has a massive updating task ahead.

One cool new feature is that the default font is stored on the display, using the new XSettings system. This means that when you run a program on a remote machine, or as another user, etc, you don't lose your settings.

Re:Bonus: refer to previous article for compilatio by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 01:45 · Score: 0

I find your above statement remarkable. There are users out there who don't use a package manager, you know. But that wasn't the point, so nevermind.

-f

GTK 'plus' by Ed+Avis · 2002-03-10 02:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

With the version number jump, you'd think they would have taken the opportunity to rename it from GTK+ back to GTK, which is what everyone calls it anyway.

--
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com

Re:GTK 'plus' by Adnans · 2002-03-10 02:24 · Score: 2

Yes and also chang the meaning of the G from 'GIMP' to 'GNU' or something else (Gawd-why-not-do-it-with-a-real-object-oriented-la nguage comes to mind :)

--
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
Re:GTK 'plus' by JanneM · 2002-03-10 02:34 · Score: 1

Just use gtkmm.

/Janne

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:GTK 'plus' by cmmike · 2002-03-10 02:40 · Score: 1

GTK's object orientation actually survives past compilation time, which is very nice. this is not the case in the language you probably mistake for being object-oriented (I'm taking a somewhat-educated wild guess, yes).

(and anyway, why does the implementation language matter for you? there probably is a binding for the language you like.)

--
-- LIVE FATS DIE YO GNU
Re:GTK 'plus' by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 03:15 · Score: 1, Insightful

- Yes and also chang the meaning of the G from 'GIMP' to 'GNU' or something else (Gawd-why-not-do-it-with-a-real-object-oriented-la nguage comes to mind :)

OO is a way of looking at problems, thinking and designing software, not a language. You can write pretty good OO programs in plain C and other "traditional" languages too.
Re:GTK 'plus' by reflective+recursion · 2002-03-10 04:01 · Score: 1

And you can also write OO in asm if you wish. Just no one does it because _tools have been written for that specific purpose!_

Ever try using a screwdriver to pound a nail in?
Didn't think so.

--
Dijkstra Considered Dead
Re:GTK 'plus' by scorcherer · 2002-03-10 06:25 · Score: 2

It's more fun to say GTK = GIMP ToolKit where GIMP = GNU Image Manipulation Program where GNU = GNU's Not Unix where GNU = ...
Personally I think in the spirit of Grecursive Gnucronyms it should be named the GTK ToolKit.
I agree on the OO bit though. It's silly that there are projects like gtkmm around just to compensate for the stupid decision of writing OO in a procedural language. It's like bolting a networking, windowing OS on top of DOS.. wait, someone actually did that...

--
--
The Cap is nigh. Time to get a fresh new account.
Re:GTK 'plus' by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 07:22 · Score: 1, Insightful

Ever try using a screwdriver to pound a nail in?
Uh, yes, I have. The question is whether I've used a hammer to screw a nail in. No, I haven't. Didn't think so.
Re:GTK 'plus' by Cryptnotic · 2002-03-10 14:30 · Score: 2

The reason they did it in C was so that all the functions could be used from C programs and so that bindings could be made for every other language out there, including "object oriented" languages like Ruby, Objective C, Java, OCaml, Perl 5-6, etc.

Only an insane person would actually try to write an ordinary program that uses GTK in C (unless they're using GladeXML).

Cryptnotic

--
My other first post is car post.

Re:Some primes... by Perdition · 2002-03-10 02:15 · Score: 1

Man, you wasted a valuable opportunity to actually be mildly funny (here are some Prime examples, it's Prime time, let's see if you guys give me a Prime ribbing, etc.), but you just stuck with blandly lame. Ah, I guess we do turn out like our parents, after all.

--
Windows XP SP2 told me to install third-party software that prevents viruses and protects stability... I chose Ubuntu

Re:Bonus: refer to previous article for compilatio by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 02:30 · Score: 0

It's like a song about irony where every single example was not ironic.

Which is ironic. That's the point :P.

Whence Gtk-Perl and others? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 02:42 · Score: 1, Insightful

I find it kind of disturbing that people who use gtk-perl seemingly are out of focus as to how Gtk-2.0 affects them; or if it will.

Are any of the language bindings going to keep tracking Gtk, or is 1.2 going to be "it" for everybody? I've noticed the PyGTK people are still whacking away, but it's been pretty much quiet on the western front otherwise.

Re:Whence Gtk-Perl and others? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 03:57 · Score: 0

and finally the myth that GTK+ can be used with other languages falls apart...

People forget that "binding" is the same as "porting GTK to other languages." I think porting is a bad word to use. Perhaps "making hacks to fit GTK+ into another language" would be better worded, no?
Re:Whence Gtk-Perl and others? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 06:40 · Score: 0

> and finally the myth that GTK+ can be used with other languages falls apart...

That statement requires one to, in your case, misrepresent the facts.

Bindings are just convenience interfaces. You can go ahead and call GTK 2 from Perl right now... same as you call any C code from Perl.

Bindings make calling C code easier or more "user friendly", but they are not a core part of the toolkit.

I think you're being a troll, because a common complaint of Qt is that it is a very difficult toolkit to write bindings for (Qt-Java and PyQt are two notable exceptions), and the "language bindings" issue is the source of a lot of GTKQt bickering.

Please don't troll here. This release is a good thing. Code using whatever tools you want, or encourage both projects to work towards basic integration (common theming, shared K/foot menus, etc). Be nice.
Re:Whence Gtk-Perl and others? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 08:45 · Score: 0

Actually, I am the serious one. Remember GNOME camp's reasoning for using C? They claim that C allows other languages to use their libraries. What _they_ misrepresented was the fact that you can do "bindings" with C++ also.

It is easy to call someone a troll and disparage their concerns; it takes a bigger person to understand their concerns and address them directly.

replace by bicho · 2002-03-10 02:47 · Score: 1

Any one knows if an upgrade from the rpm's will replace Gtk+ 1.x rpms?

I really want to try it, but dont have a very good computer nor enough space (unless someone can tell me how to use a FAT partition as if it were ext2, so i can execute there) and not a fast processor either .

anyway, i might just risk myself.

--

errera hunamum ets

Re:replace by Uerige · 2002-03-10 03:26 · Score: 1

unless someone can tell me how to use a FAT partition as if it were ext2, so i can execute there

You might want to try either 'man mount' or 'man mke2fs'. Or umsdos.
Re:replace by high · 2002-03-10 03:42 · Score: 1

That shouldn't happen, then you have a faulty rpm. In debian both gtk libraries works fine together.
Re:replace by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 04:21 · Score: 0

unless someone can tell me how to use a FAT partition as if it were ext2, so i can execute there

loopback filesystems

man losetup
Re:replace by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 04:58 · Score: 0

GTK 1.2 and 2.0 can coexist, but I don't know how this works with RPM. If you build from source you will have no problem.
Re:replace by NotoriousQ · 2002-03-10 05:14 · Score: 2, Informative

By your comment, it seems that you mean that you have a larger win partition:

try adding this to your fstab:
/dev/hda1 /win32 vfat defaults 1 0
do not forget to change the first argument to the harddrive where your fat partition is, and the second to your chosen mount point (can be anything as long as it is a real existing directory)

after that, just issue mount /win32 or whatever your mount point is

As for the replacing GTK -- no no no no. These gtk's are not truly compatible, and thus you will need both libraries. do not worry as the default install should just put them together. I also would not be surprised if you have GTK 1.0 and 1.2 on your hard drive also, so do not replace, and if you are using rpms, you would not even be able to.

Enjoy

--
badness 10000
Re:replace by sebol · 2002-03-10 05:44 · Score: 1

no

the rpm package called "gtk2" instead of "gtk+"
glib2 instead of glib
pango & atk doesnt exist in gtk+-1.2.x

--
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
Re:replace by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 13:50 · Score: 0

Use the loopback filesystem...

dd if=/dev/zero of=ext2file bs=1k count=16777216
mke2fs -F ext2file
mount -o loop -t ext2 ext2file mountpoint

What about the Win32 port ? by Khalid · 2002-03-10 02:56 · Score: 2

They seem to imply that GTK application execute on X Windows, Frame buffer, and Windows ! the former Win32 port was not integrated in the main release ! does it mean now that with just a recompile I can get my GTK applications running in Windows 9x or XP ?

Re:What about the Win32 port ? by Havoc+Pennington · 2002-03-10 04:00 · Score: 5, Informative

Yes, that's correct. The win32 version is not yet
released though, it's just in "preview" status. Should be out in a few months.
Re:What about the Win32 port ? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 06:10 · Score: 0

Thanks BTW for all the work you guys did on GTK. I'm really glad Win32 is officially supported.

We should hopefully see a lot more dual-platform applications made now that Linux has an improved, LGPL toolkit.
Re:What about the Win32 port ? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 08:55 · Score: 0

Yes, we can finally lose that stupid Linux OS and use Windows now.

I mean, who really gives a shit about the FSF's concept of freedom?

Now we only need... by Adnans · 2002-03-10 03:08 · Score: 0, Troll

a Mozilla that doesn't rubberband like hell, and doesn't bloody BLOCK all freaking windows when one window is busy :(

--
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds

Re:Bonus: refer to previous article for compilatio by irony+nazi · 2002-03-10 03:20 · Score: 2

Ugh...

Sorry forged, that would not be irony. That would be a coincidence (and a minor one, at that). Take it from the irony nazi.

--

Bringing irony to the Slash-masses

Re:Bonus: refer to previous article for compilatio by jonathan_ingram · 2002-03-10 04:17 · Score: 1

I think you're imparting *way* too much cleverness to Alanis :)

--
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.

Next Style Scrolling... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 04:22 · Score: 0

Okay, I'm going crazy trying to find information about this...

How do you configure your scroll bars to work like the Next style, where the up and down arrows are right next to each other? My understanding is that this is supposed to be a configuration option in GTK 2.0.

Thanks!

Re:Next Style Scrolling... by Greg+Merchan · 2002-03-10 04:44 · Score: 2

Put this in your theme:

GtkScrollbar::has_backward_stepper=0
GtkScrollbar::has_secondary_forward_stepper=0
GtkScrollbar::has_secondary_backward_stepper=1
GtkScrollbar::has_forward_stepper=1

(Exactly where you put it depends on your theme.)

In Related News... by suwalski · 2002-03-10 05:37 · Score: 4, Informative

news.gnome.org is reporting that Gnome Beta 2 ("I bastun bor vi allihopa!") is out!

Re:In Related News... by jeffphil · 2002-03-10 06:15 · Score: 1

Here's the mailing list post that this is indeed Beta 2:

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/ 2002-March/msg00181.html
Re:In Related News... by danro · 2002-03-10 06:57 · Score: 1

User #176418 Info) news.gnome.org is reporting that Gnome Beta 2 ("I bastun bor vi allihopa!") is out!

For those of you that don't speak swedish, the bold part means: We all live in the Sauna!

A pretty weird name if you ask me...

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"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Re:In Related News... by jonathan_ingram · 2002-03-10 07:57 · Score: 2

Just remember - there is *no* Swedish conspiracy. Wink.

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Re:In Related News... by ethereal · 2002-03-11 03:28 · Score: 1

You are a jelly donut?

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Translation by scorcherer · 2002-03-10 06:18 · Score: 2

"I bastun bor vi allihopa" is Swedish for "We all live in the sauna." Don't ask me what they really mean by that...

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Re:Translation by IamTheRealMike · 2002-03-10 07:13 · Score: 1

Actually I think that's pretty deep.... people bicker and fight about KDE vs GNOME, Qt vs GTK, but at the end of the day, we're all on the same planet, and we're all in this together. We're very much all in the sauna together.
Re:Translation by scorcherer · 2002-03-10 08:00 · Score: 2

:-) Well that's not a bad way of looking at it. In the end we're all together on this planet, knowing that emacs is better than vi.

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At last! by asobala · 2002-03-10 07:28 · Score: 1

I've been using the beta for a while; it's nice to know it's stable. The Gnome 2 release is something like the 28th of march, so presumably GTK+ is revving up for this Remember, GTK+-2.0 does not replace GTK+-1.2. They can both coexist peacefully.

Re:At last! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 07:48 · Score: 0

Dream on, Gnome 2.0 will be released in May.

Gnome topic icon.. by gh0ul · 2002-03-10 08:53 · Score: 1

Wouldn't a gimp topic icon describe this article more then a Gnome topic icon?

Afterall, Gtk was made for the gimp..

Re:Gnome topic icon.. by Penguinoflight · 2002-03-10 13:17 · Score: 1

GTK was originally made for GIMP, but scince the GNOME project decided to adopt it, GTK+ has become part of the GNOME project.

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"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Re:Gnome topic icon.. by reverius · 2002-03-11 09:56 · Score: 1

By that logic... about half of the programs that compile on Linux would use the gnome icon. It's first and foremost the "GIMP ToolKit". The fact that it -happens- to be included in GNOME (and that GNOME is based upon it) is irrelevant.
Re:Gnome topic icon.. by Penguinoflight · 2002-03-12 02:38 · Score: 1

At this point, there are far more people who would be interested in GTK+ for using with GNOME than GIMP.

Taken from gtk.org:
GTK+ was initially developed for and used by the GIMP, the GNU Image Manipulation Program. Therefore, it is named "The GIMP Toolkit", so that the origins of the project are remembered. Today GTK+ is used by a large number of applications, and is the toolkit used by the GNU project's GNOME desktop.

You can see how it's really moving to GNOME more.

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"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14

sorry but i leave by Anonymous Coward · 2002-03-10 09:03 · Score: 0

the gnome icon is well choosen for the GTK+ 2.0 announcement on the slashdot page since it matures into a GNOME piece of shit. sad that a lot of GNOME people gonna make it look like shit. GTK 1 was really cool but GTK2 2.0 is crap. it reminds me to much of GNOME.

GTK is irrelevant by radsoft · 2002-03-10 19:57 · Score: 0, Troll

... and a bloat monster.

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radsoft.net

GDK_USE_XFT by salimma · 2002-03-11 01:57 · Score: 1

to enable AA, just export GDK_USE_XFT=1 (or setenv GDK_USE_XFT 1).. works for me :)

Michel
ps It is still a bit slow though, but since I compiled with debugging enabled I did not thought further about it...

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Michel
Fedora Project Contribut

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