Frequent Flyer Miles Take You to Space?

An anonymous reader writes "Pan Am might be gone and there isn't a Hilton in space yet, but you will soon be able to use your frequent flyer miles to at least come close to the final frontier. This article on SpaceRef.com details a new Space Adventures and US Airways partnership, where US Airways dividend miles may be cashed in for Space Adventures programs, most notably their sub-orbital flights that are expected to begin by 2005. Cost: only 10,000,000 miles. More reasonable totals can get you a zero-g parabolic flight, or a Mach 2.5 flight on a MiG-25. Space Adventures is the outfit that's been arranging trips to the ISS. One small problem though, is that they don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet."

Comments

Bet those seats go quick.

[Yoda2]

The way the airlines are limiting the use of miles with blackout dates, etc., I'll probably have enough miles by 2005 to actually book a flight.

Good luck booking a suborbital on Thanksgiving though!

Re:Bet those seats go quick.

[sacherjj]

And it is a good idea to test the new sub-orbital craft with people who are buying with FF-miles, because they probably don't have the cash to purchase the actual ticket in the first place. This means that their family probably doesn't have the money to sue the company when the new test plane... umm... ...doesn't work.

Re:Bet those seats go quick.

[jmauro]

One slight problem with that logic is that they needed a lot of money to buy the tickets which generated the FF miles in the first place.

Re:Bet those seats go quick.

[sacherjj]

Why is that? When you travel for your company, the individual doing the traveling gets the Frequent Flier miles. The individual had to purchase nothing to get the miles for the flight.

But it doesn't say...

[dipfan]

.... how many air miles do you need for an upgrade to first class?

In flight movie?

[Lord Puppet]

I'm not going if they don't show something exciting like "Miss Congeniality". Space travel can be SOOO boring.

Ten million miles?!

[sql*kitten]

Cost: only 10,000,000 miles.

That's 10 weeks on Necker Island for two people with Virgin Atlantic miles! I know what I'm saving up for...

Actually, I'm aiming for the 300,000 miles you need for a round-the-world trip, still got a long way to go tho'.

Confusopolies creating greater confusions

[anandsr]

Now it will be even more difficult to determine if
US Airways is giving more bangs for the buck than
the rest of the pack.
I have yet to use any frequent flier miles, should
I be influenced with this new tactic.

don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[MrFredBloggs]

Jumbo jets are sub orbital. In fact, my mates scooter is, isnt it? Its certainly sub-light speed!

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[Tom7]

hehe.

Oh my god! We're travelling at subsonic speeds!!

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[radja]

>The Earth rotates and revolves faster than the speed of sound.

nope, speed of sound requires that sound actually can travel, which is bloody hard in space.

//rdj

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[Tasty Beef Jerky]

Are you saying sound hasn't earned 10,000,000 frequent flyer miles?

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[Tom7]

Relative to earth, my friend, like we always measure when we're on earth!

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, same goes for the speed of light. its dark, so you cant see it!

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[radja]

Sound doesn't fly US Airways ;)

//rdj

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[homebru]

Maybe not, but it is outside, pushing.

Re:don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet

[kwishot]

"If a tree falls over...."
=)

-kwishot

hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

The craft seems to be the key into getting into space. Same with getting on the highway you need a car. well you could hitch hike but I doubt NASA would pick you up if you stuck out your thumb.

Hell no

[rho]

I'm not trading in 10 million miles for a spin on the Vomit Comet. What do they serve for refreshments, a kick in the groin?

Re:Hell no

[theCURE]

No UsAirways serves stale omlettes with little rocks (onions/peppers) in them. If you want a drink, say goodbye to the can, you get a cup with half of the can.

Re:Hell no

[Deanasc]

Depends on the length of the flight and what you're drinking. I've gotten them to give me the whole can at the end of a long flight.

On the other hand I don't think I want the whole can if I can't take a leak in the last half hour of the flight.

This is ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Never heard of this being developped. Are they going to Home Depot with one of those big platforms on wheels and pick up a Russian space shuttle?

10,000,000 miles?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Miles usually expire after a couple of years if you don't use them. For a two-year window, you'd have to fly over 13000 miles a day to earn 10,000,000 miles. Pilots don't get that much time in the air.

Re:10,000,000 miles?

[IsThisNickTaken]

I don't know the current details, but US Airways has been pretty good about not having miles expired. I just cashed in enough miles for a ticket in Oct. 2001 and some of the miles were greater than 4 years old (probably 5 or 6).

As a reminder, Space Adventures is in partnership with US Airways for this promotion.

Re:10,000,000 miles?

[Anonymous Coward]

However with most airlines, there are partner rewards programs. For instance, you can earn some Northwest miles every time you stay at a Hilton hotel or drive a Hertz rental vehicle. Also, you often receive free miles in exchange for airport delays, lost baggage, etc. Northwest often gives out a coupon worth 12,500 miles in exchange for missed connections due to delays, etc.

Supposing that 30% of one's flights were delayed, and that one traveled to a different city every day and stayed in a participating hotel and rented a car from a participating rental agency, it might be possible to earn the points in two years of five day-per-week travel.

Re:10,000,000 miles?

[Spoons]

Miles usually expire after a couple of years if you don't use them. For a two-year window, you'd have to fly over 13000 miles a day to earn 10,000,000 miles. Pilots don't get that much time in the air.

Actually I am not sure how all the mile programs work, but Delta's miles expire after 4 years of inactivity. So if you don't take a flight on Delta for 4 years all your miles go away, but if you do you keep all all your miles for four more years. They do this for accounting purposes. Otherwise they have these huge financial liabilities they are required to keep on the books forever because they never expire.

Re:10,000,000 miles?

[turg]

Miles usually expire after a couple of years if you don't use them. For a two-year window, you'd have to fly over 13000 miles a day to earn 10,000,000 miles.

In my experience, they expire if you do not earn any for a number of years. E.g. with American Airlines, your miles expire if you have not earned miles in the past three years -- but as long as you earn miles at least once every three years, none of your miles will ever expire.

Seeing as we're talking about USAirways, though, I'll take the 30 secods to look up their terms and conditions for Divendend Miles. Here's the relevant bit:

Beginning January 1, 2000, miles earned will not expire as long as any mileage earning or redemption activity occurs in your account within 36 months of the last account activity. Each qualifying activity on or after January 1, 2000, will extend the expiration date of all unexpired miles in your account for 36 months from the date of the qualifying activity. Dividend Miles earned through December 31, 1999 are not subject to expiration.

Re:10,000,000 miles?

[lw54]

Miles usually expire after a couple of years if you don't use them. For a two-year window, you'd have to fly over 13000 miles a day to earn 10,000,000 miles. Pilots don't get that much time in the air.

American Express Rewards Program gives a point for every dollar you spend and one can then transfer these points to a participating partner airline. Maybe they'll partner up so I only have to spend $10,000,000 on the amex this year...

Re:10,000,000 miles?

[Anonymous Coward]

you'd have to go a constant 541 miles per hour. i don't think planes even go that fast usually. perhaps a jet.

More time in a plane. Great.

[Kushana]

I would imagine that after spending 10 million miles (400 times around the world) in a plane, the last thing I would want is to spend my miles on a plane trip.

Re:More time in a plane. Great.

[ghjm]

10 million frequent flyer miles does not equal 10 million actual traveled miles. You get all kinds of bonuses, double points for certain segments, points for staying in a hotel, points for renting a car, etc, etc. I have met sales reps with accounts in the millions of points. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with 10 million but it's less than an order of magnitude out.

Re:More time in a plane. Great.

[the_quark]

However, spending 10M miles on this is a rip-off. According to the Space Adventures web site, the sub-orbital trip is $98,000. Miles generally cost $.02 - $.03 retail (in other words, you could form a company, do a deal with USAirways, and buy miles for $.02/mile) which gives you a good benchmark for whether you should spend miles on something. For example, you can purchase membership to the US Airways Club for $375. You can also cash in miles to do it. I don't know how many miles it takes (it's not on their website, you have to call), but, if it's more than about 20k it's clearly not worth it. And, worse, even if it is 20k, you could spend that same 20k on upgrading a round-trip ticket to first class, which is probably worth about $1500 (even more if your ticket is really cheap). Since 20k miles costs you about $400, that means you make a profit on every mile of about $.055.

So, in any event, at 10M miles to go to space, that's about $200,000 of miles value. In perspective, you could get 500 round-trip first-class upgrades for 10M air miles, which would have a profit of $550,000 - the same tickets purchased with cash would've cost $750,000, but you got them for the low, low price of $200,000.

By comparison, the suborbital flight would cost $98,000 in cash, so using your miles is a LOSS, outright, not even including the "opportunity cost" of the $750,000 paper profit you could make by using them for first-class upgrades. Clearly they just set this up to get publicity and designed the system so that even if you had 10M miles, you'd use them on something else.

Wish USAirways would spend their time and money getting BLANKETS back in first class, not doing crap like this...*grumble grumble*

Overbooked

[macdaddy]

I'd hate to get overbooked on a space flight. You spend 3 months planning to leave your house and pets (and kids!) alone for a couple weeks and boom!, you find out that you're flight was overbooked 5:1 and you have to take an alternate flight in a year.

easier way for coders

[oo7tushar]

Last year devicetop.com had a dev contest and first prize was a ride in a Mig and a week in Russia with a tour of the Space center. Second was a zero G flight with a tour of the Space center. Third was a tour of the Space center. In all three you got a week in Russia. Perhaps another company will put on a contest like that soon.
From what was advertised, the first place prize cost something like $40,000. So it's not all that expensive. Of course you could just pop down another $100,000 and get an older used MIG (CD Player extra).

Re:easier way for coders

[ebh]

Fourth place was two weeks in Russia, meals included.

Exclusive Exclusivness

[pinkUZI]

...an exclusive new exclusive business agreement...

Now, will Space Adventures, Ltd. be exclusivly signing with any other exclusive business partners else or will this be an exclusivly exclusive relationship with US Airways?

Re:Exclusive Exclusivness

[Sakhmet]

Help Slashdot end, stamp out, and eliminate redundancy! Your support is urgently required for this extremely worthy cause.

Sakhmet, increasing sarcasm levels since 1980.

Space Miles

[fruey]

Wow! So now I only have to like, travel round the world, whose circumference is appx 25,000 miles, like 400 times... to be able to go up once into space.

What kind of air traveller gets air miles that high? Even with credit card tie-ins and all that? If you have even 1,000,000 miles, tell me how you earned 'em!

Re:Space Miles

[Registered Coward v2]

1 million miles - 5 years at Delta's minimum Platnum Qualifying level - 100K/year, plus double miles as a bonus for being Platinum. Slightly more than 5 depending on how and when you qualify, less if you charge tickets on a credit card that gives miles, convert hotel points to miles,etc.

100k is about 40 coast to coast roundtrips - not all that much flying. I've seen 2 and three million milers on Delta - and I'm well on my way to my second million.

Admiral's Club

[macdaddy]

This is a bit of an OT sidenote but I wonder if they'll have an Admiral's Club in space. I was in the one at Dallas/Ft. Worth last April and loved it. It made me want to shell out the $400/year for a membership. I don't travel much though but when I do, it would be worth it!

Re:Admiral's Club

[macdaddy]

Well at least the moderator's agreed with my saying my post was OT. Schmucks.

how many miles...

[Anonymous Coward]

to launch Lance Bass?

Excuse me

[Saint Aardvark]

But how can you use air miles to travel into space, which is clearly a vacuum?

A little more fact-checking in the future, please.

Re:Excuse me

[ChenLing]

Hold on Johnny, we all know that space is not a vacuum. After all, if space were a vacuum, what would the elephants that hold up the world breath? Not to mentioni the giant space turtle.

Hmmm...

[NiftyNews]

Hey Jeremy, who is this Lance Bass guy and why is he flying around the world 7 times next week?

The catch is..

[dimer0]

The blackout dates will KILL you - don't even try to become Mr Spaceman around the holidays.

Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[PhysicsGenius]

I want to visit space. I want to walk on the moon. I want to drink beer in a Martian bar. But I never will.

Why not? Because space tourism is unworkable. Sure, there's a big cost--that can be brought down (though not free, it takes a minimum of 400 gigajoules to lift 100 kg to 100 km above Earth). And it is complicated, but that can be simplified (although it will likely only become more and complex, think of the airline industry).

No, the real problem is health. In order to survive launch astronauts hhave to be in peak physical condition. More importantly, to avoid bone loss and fluid redistribution problems they also have to exercise rigorously during their entire trip. Is the average, fat, camera-wielding, mickey-mouse hat-wearing American tourist(TM) going to pass either of these requirements? No.

And until Joe Blow can take a "Space Cruise" the price and complexity won't fall enough for me to visit there either, even though I am a prime physical specimen.

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[decipher_saint]

"bone loss"

"Excuse me, stewardess? I beleive I had 206 bones when I boarded, now I only have 198 and this packet of crisps, I will never fly Delta again!"

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[Strange Ranger]

The Space Elevator would solve the unhealthy launch problems and should lower the cost.
There is currently no market for a 'space pill' or equivalent to fight the bone loss, etc., but you know what they say about necessity..

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[StringBlade]

...it takes a minimum of 400 gigajoules to lift 100 kg to 100 km above Earth

That's only if you're trying to breach escape velocity in one bold stroke. I seem to recall some rather recent study/theories that take a chemical compound (something like Buckyballs) and produce incredibly tough carbon rods that could *theoretically* build a elevator to space.

Naturally, the technology is slightly beyond our reach and our budget (somewhere on the order of US$10 trillion to build). And I imagine it would be a rather long ride (hope you went to the bathroom BEFORE you got on the elevator!).

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[dachshund]

No, the real problem is health. In order to survive launch astronauts hhave to be in peak physical condition

Unless, of course, they avoid vertical launches altogether and instead offer flights on gradual lift vehicles like space planes. I can't imagine that the stresses would be too rough under those conditions.

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[ZigMonty]

In the very early days of flight people were making similar claims to the ones you're making now. "Flying across the atlantic will only be for the very rich and then only if they're fit."

In order to survive launch astronauts hhave to be in peak physical condition.

You do realise that there is no fundamental reason why launches have to be so hard on the astronauts. It's just cheaper to make the acceleration more violent and get into space more quickly.

More importantly, to avoid bone loss...

You're assuming that once in space they would be in constant zero g. You could always spin the craft tethered to its booster and just give them a taste of zero g rather than enduring it for the whole trip. I think I'd go up for the view mostly and just the thrill of being in space. If I wanted zero g, I'd book a flight on the vomit comet.

I think 2005 is a little optimistic. I'd say that by ~2015, space tourism will be in full swing. IMHO, it'll take one of the big players (ie. Boeing) to make it happen.

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[marijne]

The peak fysical condition in which an astronaut has to be is not comparable to the condition in which a space tourist has to be. Imagine: an astronaut has to manipulate a lot of instruments or at least keep watch on them. This requires the occasion lifting of an arm under 9 G or so (which is really tough) and at the least it requires staying focused.
The tourist is just required not to suffer an heart attack under the pressure shift on his blood vessels. He may pass out without endangering the mission, as long as he wakes up in time to enjoy the view.

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[linzeal]

No according to this it only cost 40 billion to make the space elevator.

Of course, while all this may be technically possible, it doesn't mean NASA has the money to pay for it. The price tag for the initial Earth-based space elevator is estimated to be $40 billion.

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[Tackhead]

> > "bone loss"
>
> "Excuse me, stewardess? I beleive I had 206 bones when I boarded, now I only have 198 and this packet of crisps, I will never fly Delta again!"

"Where do you think the crisps for the passengers on the next flight come from?"

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[Peyna]

I don't know about needing to be in peak physical condition, we shot John Glenn up there when he was pretty old, he might have be in better shape than most people his age, but I bet he wasn't in that great of shape.

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[arsaspe]

Most of the health problems from space are due to the fact that you are in perpetual freefall, thus you experience no gravity, so your body slows regeneration of bone and muscle. If a space station was built that rotated fast enough, you could simulate enough gravity to slow that down to acceptable levels. (Although it would be hard to simulate earth gravity). Mars has 2/3 the gravity as earth, so you could stay there long term without too much trouble if you could find a way to get there faster (currently takes about a year for space probes). The moon only takes a few days, but the 1/9th gravity wouldn't be enough to stop bone and muscle decay.

Heh heh

[Dragnet]

A bit of irony in the ad that was displayed for me. The problem! They don't have a sub-orbital craft! Then on the right, an ad: Manage _all_ your projects with SourceForge enterprise!

Great

[Strange Ranger]

I'll finally get to fly in space - equipped with a seat belt and a floating cushion.

So much for those weeks at Space Camp.

Well ...

[ProfMoriarty]

You could go to the moon and back about 20 times ... then you would have about 10M miles ...

Of course ... the miles would be used for space travel ... and you went into space .....

Hmmm ... nevermind ...

Miles

[Registered Coward v2]

Other than the space flight, the other awards aren't that unreasonable - @250K for a "zero-g" flight, that's in the realm of a FF's single year total (assuming 125k of actual miles and the 100% bonus miles for being chairman's perferred). Delta has had similar premium offers - tyopically high end vacations or a chance to fly a 757 simulator. Since FF programs are intended to attract and retain the most profitable segement of the flying public, most airlines offer their top tier fliers special opportunities.

Re:Miles

[Tackhead]

> Delta has had similar premium offers - tyopically high end vacations or a chance to fly a 757 simulator.

"Why yes, Abdul, you earned so many frequent flyer points from all those last-minute first-class one-way tickets you bought last year, of course you can fly the 757 sim! Where to, sir, lower Manhattan or DC?"

Not only would space tourism cut launch costs, I'd say putting Abdul on a Russian RLVs that has yet to be designed, let alone flight-tested, would be safer for all of us :-)

That's not a problem...

[PortHaven]

As I doubt anyone currently has 10,000,000 miles either!

And by the time someone does there likely WILL BE a sub-orbital craft.

*LOL*

Re:That's not a problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

*LOL* ??... you're so fucking gay.

What would be really cool

[Deanasc]

Not that I could book a free space flight with earthly miles but get earthly miles for a trip in space.

How many miles did the shuttle travel in the last 11 days? I'm too lazy to look it up but let's say it's a lot, in the 100,000's. How many first class upgrades could I get for that kind of travel. It would take some of the sting out of the high price of space travel today.

Re:What would be really cool

[niftyeric]

I think the average orbiting shuttle speed is around 18,000 mph, but I'm not real sure.

Re:What would be really cool

[oo7tushar]

If it takes 90 minutes to orbit the earth and it was there for 11 days then...176 orbits of ze planet.
12760 km around the equator (that's 7926 miles). They're orbiting 350 km up (hubble is there, to avoid air friction). So the radius of the earth is 2030 km, add 350 to that = 2380km, multiply by 2pi = 14954 km every 90 minutes (one orbit). Thereby giving us 14954*176=2631904 km or 1644940 miles.
Which means that NASA needs 10 more hubble repair missions and they get a free flight (all they gotta do is put the airlines logo on the shuttle).

Re:What would be really cool

[Deanasc]

Thank you for doing the math for me. I just wasn't in the mood for math today.

Re:What would be really cool

[Anonymous Coward]

12760 is it's diameter not circumference. The radius would then be half that. The orbital radius is then 6380km + 350KM. I get roughly 3.5 million KM per trip.

Re:What would be really cool

[oo7tushar]

I apologise the diameter of the earth is 12760 not the circumference (noted in a reply to the original post by an anonymous coward...please mod that one up)

That makes an orbital distance of 13460 km from the center of the earth...42286 km per orbit. Or 7442336 km in the last mission, aka 4.65 million miles.

10M Miles? No problem.

[mckwant]

Get a credit card linked to USAir miles, and give it to Loki. Then, it's just a matter of time.

What happened to PanAm's res. list to the moon?

[jpellino]

When 2001 came out, PanAm was flooded with calls - and one day someone had the inspiration to stop slamming the phone down and take names. From what I remember, there was some nominal (hundreds? thousand?) fee to get on the reservation list for PanAm's first flight to the moon - whenever it would be. I further recall that when PanAm dissolved, they had to do something with this list so that the dollars they were given in 1969 were accounted for... Anyone else got better details on this? I doubt I dreamed it but IO know this isn't the whole story...

Re:What happened to PanAm's res. list to the moon?

[turg]

jpellino wrote:

Anyone else got better details on this?

http://www.retrofuture.com/moontrip.html

Re:What happened to PanAm's res. list to the moon?

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened was that they relied on NASA and its contractors to develop launch craft usable for that purpose. This, of course, failed to happen, and it does not appear that it is going to happen. Which is why I, for one, view with great skepticism anyone who plans on offering this service if they are not developing their own craft (and by "developing" I mean that they've at least built and tested the engines).

Armadillo Aerospace, ERPS, XCOR...there are groups that are doing this. Space Adventures isn't one of them. So, unless Space Adventures plans on buying or leasing a craft from one of the former - and, to my knowledge, they have made no overtures towards that yet - I feel that Space Adventures almost falls under the FTC's definition of "scam", as bad as many of the dotcoms if not worse.

burning karma

[lubricated]

because of crap like this
I'm burning my karma and leaving forever

Supersonic available now

[Gonoff]

Every day, supersonic aircraft take off in Europe and land in the USA and vice versa. Concorde has been doing this for over 25 years.

A flight in a Mig25 sounds a lot more fun though! Does anyone know of any rich owners of IT comapnies who give lifts?

Re:Supersonic available now

[Tackhead]

> A flight in a Mig25 sounds a lot more fun though! Does anyone know of any rich owners of IT comapnies who give lifts?

No, but for the next-best thing - prop-driven (and cheap) head-to-head dogfighting, there's Air Combat Canada in Southern Ontario and Fighter Combat in Arizona. For about $1000 US, customers get a full day of training and fly an unlimited-class aerobatic aircraft with a former F-18 pilot as a backseater.

It ain't supersonic (I guess it's kinda hard to do that in US airspace, and our military pilots have enough funding to maintain and fuel their aircraft without tourist dollars ;-), but it sounds like a hellacious amount of fun.

Pan Am isn't gone...

[nolesrule]

They are back now, probably under different ownership, but flying mostly regional flights in the North East and in Florida.

Pan Am's Website

I live near the St. Pete-Clearwater Airport and one day I was driving by and I saw a Pan Am plane at one of the gates. I was shocked, since I hadn't seen one in years. Apparently, they have been making flights for 2-1/2 years.

small correction:Tourism In Space Will Never Work

[marijne]

You mention bone loss . Bone loss results from the lack of weight that your skeleton has to carry in space, this however is a long term process and does therefore not occur during a 1 day trip, or even a few days trip (wich should be approximately the duration of the flight). For fluid redistribution something similar is bound to occur. All your fluids are redistributed during flying an F16, but this is not a long term effect.
The most harmfull long term effect (as f16 pilots have them) are bad backs (long term flying effect) and hemmeroids (also long term as a result of the short time fluid redistribution story). All of these occur as a result of the constant accelerations that military pilots are subjected too. During a trip straight up and down there are a lot less accelerations (only take-off and the occasional turn). However, you are perfectly right that you have to be in a good condition for these (and probably not too fat, or with to much fluids to redistribute).

0g?

[Anonymous Coward]

0g eh? Just how do they manage that?

No, they do not create a 0g environment, they just simulate it by sending you in a freefall towards earth wrapped in a metal shell otherwise known as an airplane.

Recent?

[Anonymous Coward]

I seem to recall some rather recent study/theories that take a chemical compound (something like Buckyballs) and produce incredibly tough carbon rods that could *theoretically* build a elevator to space.

"... and if you don't pay me One Million Dollars in the next 24 hours, I'll use something called a "LASER" to destroy the earth's protective "OZONE LAYER"! Mwahahahahahaha!"

Take a look at The Fountains of Paradise, by Arthur C. Clarke. Written in 1978 or 79, and it wasn't even the first time this idea was fleshed out.

Re-check your information source.

[Christopher Thomas]

It would seem that your source is in error about a few of these points:

Sure, there's a big cost--that can be brought down (though not free, it takes a minimum of 400 gigajoules to lift 100 kg to 100 km above Earth).

Energy to lift something to a given altitude (not orbit) is force * distance. 100 kg feels 1000 N from the Earth's pull. 100 km is 1.0e5 metres. Energy required to lift 100 kg to 100km (and stationary above Earth's surface) is 100 megajoules - or what you'd get from about $5 US worth of gasoline (or less) at perfect efficiency.

Energy to put something into orbit fairly close to Earth's surface (LEO) is the binding energy (half the gravitational potential energy of an object on the Earth's surface). GPE is -m1m2G/r, or 6e24 * 6.7e-11 / 6.5e6 = 62 MJ/kg for an object sitting on the Earth's surface. This gives a theoretical minimum of 31 MJ/kg to put something in low earth orbit, or 3.1 gigajoules for a 100kg object.

You'd get this by burning around $150 US worth of gasoline at perfect efficiency and magically imparting all of the resulting energy to the cargo.

Space travel is expensive because our rockets a) lift their fuel with themselves and b) impart a lot of energy to the outgoing exhaust instead of to the craft itself. At perfect efficiency, getting into space would be quite cheap.

Re:Re-check your information source.

[Anonymous Coward]

You sure?

Re:Re-check your information source.

[linzeal]

a) lift their fuel with themselves

What would you have them do get an extension hose from the nasa gas station?? I just wish isp alone would get us into space so ion engines would work. How big of an mercury gas or xenon gas ion engine would you have to have to get into space, any rocket scientists here?

Re:Re-check your information source.

[Sparky4ca]

I believe there is not only the problem of how much energy is needed to attain altitude, but the exit velocity is a factor. To leave the atmosphere, a certain velocity is needed to prevent either:

a) bouncing off the edge of the atmosphere
or
b) burning up during exit

These are also factors on re-entry.

Re:Re-check your information source.

[Christopher Thomas]

I believe there is not only the problem of how much energy is needed to attain altitude, but the exit velocity is a factor. To leave the atmosphere, a certain velocity is needed to prevent either:

a) bouncing off the edge of the atmosphere
or
b) burning up during exit

You actually want to be moving as slowly as possible while you're in dense atmosphere, because you shed energy as the cube of your airspeed.

Burning up and bouncing are mainly concerns on re-entry, because you start off going at a far greater speed than would be practial to reach at low altitudes. While you're climbing to orbit, wasting your fuel by pushing against air is the main concern (well, that and pressure changes mucking with your rocket nozzle efficiency).

For perfect efficiency, build a magnetic launcher on a 50-mile-high track ;). I'm not claiming it's easy to reach perfect efficiency - just that very low costs to orbit are theoretically possible.

now you can join the elite few....

[stalwart]

...if you happen to be part of the elite few that have money and time you can just spend like that. hopefully this could pave the way for a future where the average (in good health) joe could travel in space, but it won't be for a long while.

Thanks boss...

[mbennis]

Boss : " Tomorrow, meeting at 8AM with marketing, you take the plane and brief me by phone mmmkay? .. Good "

Me: "OK no prob, can you sign me my holidays for 2006, i'll take a trip to ISS....mmmkay ?...Good"

feas before the seats even exist, hmmm...

[marijne]

am I the only one who thinks that this sounds as a big sham.
Sounds like they collect, and take of to visit the moon themselves, a bit like investing in a coffee plantation on a tropical iland which turns out to be a coral reef with only salt water.

Mig 17's can be bought

[Anonymous Coward]

in some countries in Eastern Europe for less than 40K US (up front) plus freight. You have to freight it (after having a US military de-certification done) because it's straight line ferry distance is too restrictive for a cross atlantic hop (unless you could get greenland/iceland to clear you so you can shoot the gap).

ALRIGHT!

[Treeluvinhippy]

only 9,000,780 more to go!

Wrong, as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

Genius... shesh *rolls eyes*

For launch, you have to be able to take and withstand without arterial or cardiac stress 5.5 - 6 g's for 45 seconds to 120 seconds. I have been in a centrifuge while in the AF and I can take 6 g's no problem for several minutes, and I am only average.

In space, especially for civies, there would be 1/2 to 3/4 gravity thanks to the miracle that is centrifical force. Ships would spin components, ala Bab5, or stations would spin in their entirity, with micro gavitic conditions varying through out the station.

As well, recent discoveries by NASA on blood, fluid, and bone/cartilage loss due to micro gravity are pushing the medical envelope. You have resistance training and aerobic exercise to offset conditions, as well as blood and tissue drugs under testing that slow or stop the loss (though some require reversers or some other agent to clean them out before you return to a normal gravity environment).

You don't really think that NASA will stay with chemical high impulse, high weight/cost rockets for ever do you. Especially for civies? No, me either. I would expect several technologies to mature over the next few decades:

1) For non-crewed robotic cargo and transfer 'ships' I would expect railguns or similar high boost, low cost solutions. Shuttles will become outdated in the Space Program for hauling cargo thanks to cost and manpower.

2) Crewed 'ships' will use all kinds of more gentlier, low cost methods to lift cargo out of our gravity well. Constant energy, low cost systems light laser impulse or even a orbital elevator. There is cost up front, for sure, but they pay for themselves over the long haul, reducing stress on payloads moving to orbit and reducing the cost per pound variable.

Of course, this would mean a rather grand expansion and shift in focus on Nasa's part, the development of a much larger ground to space lift capability, one or several permanent 'space stations' and 'space factories' for building ships and equipment/parts in orbit, a la grange point station along the earth/moon axis, the creation of a light side lunar base that is nearly self sustaining (estimates are 3000 people growing their own food in sub surface caverns), etc...

Hell, the way things are going given Nasa's cheap exploration focus, China will get to Mars before we do anyway. They don't call it the Red Planet for nothing.

ISS or TeenBeat Magazine

[torinth]

Frankly, if I had the choice of cashing in my frequent flyer miles for a trip to space, or for my choice of Time, Maxim, and all the other crap for the rest of my life, I think my head would explode.

-Andrew

I'm just hoping...

[BigJimSlade]

They don't back out at the last minute like pepsi did with Pepsi Points buying a Harrier (ok, so it didn't really happen)

I don't even know where to start...

[Anonymous Coward]

So a company that is in as much trouble as US Airways decideds that rather than develop a business plan that makes sense they will plan for 2005 and space flights. Now this sounds like a good idea.

Let's honestly consider this...If the airlines can't get people on airplanes now, how will they possible get a single person to fly the 1500 US Airways flights (roughly) between Pittsburgh and Paris to accumulate enough miles to make this trip? Then again, maybe this is what they are aiming for.

I just wonder what the non-revenue (employee) policy for these flights will be.

No Launch Vehicle?

[Will_Malverson]

One small problem though, is that they don't actually have a sub-orbital craft yet.

Don't worry, John will get us there!

Only 40 billion for a SPACE NEEDLE

[linzeal]

$40 billion thats it? Why haven't they built the fucking thing yet? Thats ridiculously cheap compared to launching the space shuttle for the amount of transport capacity in a year. A space shuttle lunch is what 60 million a shot?

PRESS RELEASE: Time Tourism

[Alsee]

PRESS RELEASE
Date Released: Monday, February 29, 2002
Time Tourism

Pan American World Airways and Time Tourism to Offer the Ultimate Destination: Earth's History

Pan American World Airways and Time Tourism, Ltd., have formed an exclusive new exclusive business agreement where Pan American's MileHigh Club members will have the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to earn and redeem frequent flyer miles for travel to the ultimate tourist destination -- Earth's History. Pan American is the world's first airline to offer mileage accrual and redemption for time travel.

In addition to actual time travel, Pan American's MileHigh Club miles can be earned and redeemed for Time Tourism's time stasis experience and time leaps, as well as chrononaut led time-bus launch tours.

"Pan American and Time Tourism have created an incredible opportunity that only can be imagined by most people today," said Pan American Senior Vice President of Marketing John M. Bloodworth. "We are delighted to join with Time Tourism in this historical endeavor."

"We are proud to have Pan American as Time Tourism's official domestic airline," said John W. Booth, President and CEO of Time Tourism. "We look forward to taking their passengers back to the future."

Pan American's MileHigh Club members can earn and redeem miles through participating in any of the following Time Tourism's programs:

Bus Launch Tours: With a chrononaut as host, MileHigh Club members can experience the thrill of a live countdown disappearance at the Quale Time Center in Wyoming.

Time Stasis Experience: Participants can experience a timeless eternity just like the chrononauts at the formerly top secret Doctor Mengele Dental Training Center in Auschwitz, Germany.

24 Hour Time Leap: Expert anesthetists take participants on a leap 1 day into their own future.

Time Travel: Time Tourism will offer MileHigh Club members a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to travel through time! Participants will be able to climb aboard a sub-temporal timecraft and phase to a velocity of C (186,000 miles per second), experience several minutes of timelessness and see the Earth through history. Upon return to the present, participants earn their chrononaut watches! Despite the doubts of our engineers, management is confident that service will begin sometime tomorrow.

For more information about this unique opportunity, please visit www.panam.com or www.zombo.com. Temporal Tourism, Ltd., the world's leading time tourism company, offers a wide range of temporal experiences, from time stasis experience and 24 hour time leaps, chrononaut training and time travel qualification programs on Earth, to actual voyages through time. Time Tourism has provided clients like Amelia Earheart and Jimmy Hoffa with the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to fly to the Intertemporal Station. With offices in Bermuda, Miami Fl, and San Juan Puerto Rico, Space Adventures is developing a U.S.-based timeport from which passenger sub-temporal space flights will begin operations real soon now. For more information about Time Tourism, visit www.zombo.com or call 202-347-4833.

Pan American World Airways has 64 years of expeience in providing quality air travel since 1927. First American airline to operate a permanent international air service. First airline to develop and use instrument flight techniques. First airline to operate scheduled transpacific passenger and mail service. First airline to operate scheduled transatlantic passenger and mail service. First airline to complete a round-the-world flight. First airline to operate jets with the continental US. First airline to relay inflight messages via satellite. Pan Am is certainly one of the greatest airlines in history.

###

Contact information:

Pan American World Airways
John M. Bloodworth
800-359-7262

Time Tourism Ltd.
John W. Booth
202-347-4833

-

Re:PRESS RELEASE: Time Tourism

[Anonymous Coward]

The REALLY amusing part is that Pan Am is now owned by Guilford Transportation, which also bought out the Boston & Maine, Springfield Terminal and some other railroads in the Northeast, and is slowly but very surely running them into the ground.

Thanks, but no thanks, Timmy. Please pick up your toys and go home to Connecticut and let the world recover from your dalliances...

The man with more Flying Miles

[frankie_guasch]

The Pope will have fun at Mach 3

Check the prices

[Anonymous Coward]

The zero gravity award is 250,000 miles + $2000, and only $5400 if you buy it directly - That means your 250,000 miles is only saving you $3400. That same 250,000 miles could get you 10 cross country flights in the US, which is worth a lot more than $3400. The Edge of space award is a little better, saving you $4600 for 275,000 miles, but I still don't think it's worth it.

sub-orbital craft in the works

[ruzel]

http://www.xprize.com

Xprize has a nice little $10,000,000 prize they're giving away to the first company or group who can build a ship that will travel to a sub-orbital level and be ready to run again in two weeks. I think there're over 18 teams competing and one of them has already had a sucessful launch. Most of the optomistic followers of the project that I've spoken to say that someone will succeed in the next 36 months. I can agree with that.
____________________

Re:Tourism In Space Will Never Work - Health

[Porag_Spliffing]

This is like saying tourism on Kilimanjaro, or even Everest will never take off. I Climbed Killi a few years ago, it is only for the fit but there are plenty of fit around who want to do it. I just hope orbit does not fill up with mars bar wrappers and empty water bottles, or even O2 bottles like Everest.

Mission to Mars...

[Shade, The]

Would it work the other way? I mean, if we're going to go to Mars sometime in the near future, the crew would surely amass such a massive amount of air miles that they never have to pay for air travel again :)

How many miles do I get for a suborbital flight?

[magic]

I'd be more excited to see how many miles I can get for a flight like this. I mean, if you take a real orbital flight do you get 24,000 miles every time you go around the earth?

-m

By chance, You could get there cheap

[netringer]

Burt Rutan envisons a Space Tourism venture that works partly as a raffle. The company would create three new astronauts every week. One of those will have paid big money. The other two will have paid a reasonable $x,000 (it was $5000 in 1996).

The spacecraft has three seats. You can guarantee a seat by paying $100,000+ for a ticket. Otherwise you pay $5,000 for a chance. For a chance for a seat on each flight 10 people pay $5,000.

For each weekly flight all eleven go the training site in the Carribean. They are instructed in the three crew positions on the spacecraft. At the end of the fourth day of training the 10 candidates draw straws. Two of them get seats in the spacecraft. The other 8 have gotten a very nice Carribean vacation for $5,000.

The two and the $100,000 passenger get seats on the spacecraft launched on the Proteus for an Alan Shepard style 15 minute sub-orbital flight that lands in the same Carribean. The flight includes ten minutes of free weightlessness.

Rutan's vision was the commercial application of his entry for the X-Prize. The X-Prize competition is dormant because it never got a sponsor for the $1 Million prize.

In the future...

[epsalon]

Customer: I'd like to cash in some frequent flyer miles I've collected.
Sales rep: No problem, sir. What direction will you be flying?
Customer: Up.
Sales rep: Sorry, say again?
Customer: Up. To space. To the sky.
Sales rep: Hmm... I'm not sure if it's in the list of destinations here. Are you sure it's available
Customer: Sure I'm sure. I read it on SlashDot!
Sales rep: Slashwhat?
Customer: Nevermind.

[Kinda reminds me of a scene from "Flight of the Navigator"...]

not in this lifetime

[Anonymous Coward]

why can't /. run articles which might really happen, this is pure BS

They don't, but these guys do

[Once&FutureRocketman]

The EZ-Rocket.

Argh!

[Lethyos]

How teh hell do you do that? I have been trying to figure it out forever with nos ucess. Stupid lameness filter.