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Hiding and Recovering Data on Linux

neuroticia writes "linuxsecurity.com has an interesting article on data hiding and recovery: "On a 4GB Linux partition, the block size is typically 4K (chosen automatically when the mke2fs utility is run to create a filesystem). Thus one can reliably hide up to 4KB of data per file if using a small file. The data will be invulnerable to disk usage, invisible from the filesystem, and, which is more exciting for some people, undetectable by file integrity checkers using file checksumming algorithms and MAC times. Ext2 floppy (with a block size of 1KB) allows hiding data as well, albeit in smaller chunks.""

151 comments

  1. Well... by junkster191 · · Score: 0

    Privacy is always a good thing. But how quickly do you think the FBI or USSS will try to regulate this sort of "uncrackable encryption"?

    1. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not encryption and it's not uncrackable.

    2. Re:Well... by -brazil- · · Score: 1

      It's not encryption and laughably easy to find - the agencies would probably quite happy to have everyone use it instead of real encryption.

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    3. Re:Well... by knulleke · · Score: 1

      Why is the typical slashdot user such a fanatic about privacy? I really can't fathom why anyone would go to such lengths to protect his files.

      I have maybe two or three files I would prefer not to show to anyone else, and I keep those on a cdrom, locked in a closet.

      Or are you afraid anyone is going to see your huge collection of porn?

      --
      no sig error.
    4. Re:Well... by aminorex · · Score: 2

      Because people get killed all the time, every day,
      for their beliefs, or for their plans to stop the
      killing.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  2. Interesting. Very interesting. by wondercat2 · · Score: 0

    Would it be possible to break up the encrypted passwd file and hide it in slack space? Perhaps have an ersatz passwd with useless passwds, and hide the real one in several places around the disk. Or am I just being really REALLY paranoid??

    1. Re:Interesting. Very interesting. by gazbo · · Score: 2

      ...but you'd need to tell the OS where to find the pieces, so whoever it is who's beaming radio waves at your foil hat would be able to track their location just as easily, by finding out where the system would look.

      And even if the paranoid people who think that government agencies have advanced encryption breaking hardware are correct, I still think that locating the hidden chunks in the manner I suggested would be trivial compared to cracking MD5 hases.

  3. just to make sure.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why not strong encrypt your document first, when embed the result steganographically into a jpeg before "hiding" it on an ext2 filesystem.

    That should do it.

    1. Re:just to make sure.. by -brazil- · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Better yet, how about combining the "slack space" concept with that of a steganographic filesystem? In fact, the two concepts fit together very well...

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    2. Re:just to make sure.. by stevenbee · · Score: 0

      Thank you sir. You have brought up a point which needs more attention!

      --
      Don't read this!
  4. Some questions... by Saib0t · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The article, while explaining rather well that there IS such a thing, fails to explain some things:


    - what are the potential uses for such a thing?
    - a hacker could hide some information somewhere, but what to hide?
    - Is there any legitimate use for that?
    - Does moving the file to another location suffices to prevent any use of such a thing? (after all, if the file is moved, the block is free for reuse).

    Just my 0.01 worth questions...

    --

    One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
    1. Re:Some questions... by redhog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a question of security by obscurity. If everyone used exactly this technic to hide their data, everyone and their dog will be able to recover it. But if everyone hides their data at different places (I hide mine in the most insinificant bits in a picture, you hide yours in teh filesystem, etc), we'l increase the workd needed to find any given information.

      If you think that "if you are innocent, you have nothing to hide", then certainly, this has no uses. Otherwise, it has lots of uses :)

      Hiding dirty pictures of you and your SO from parents perheaps?

      No, just _moving_ it does not free the block. You must either move it to another disk, or copy it and remove all had links to it.

      --
      --The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
    2. Re:Some questions... by MartinG · · Score: 2

      - what are the potential uses for such a thing?
      Fun mostly! But really, it's useful for anyone who wants to hide information from governme^wuntrustworthy people.

      - Is there any legitimate use for that?
      See above.

      - Does moving the file to another location suffices to prevent any use of such a thing?

      AFAIK, no. Not with ext2 at least if you're moving the file from one place on a filesystem to another on the same filesystem. The data doesn't actually get moved. All that changes is the link to the inode. (can somebody correct me / elaborate)

      --
      -- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz .@adgimnoprstu
    3. Re:Some questions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - what are the potential uses for such a thing?

      Hide small bits of data eg. phone numbers used infrequently that are useful using this method would require just a tad more effort to retrieve then the Post It Notes(tm)I keep in that awkward spot under the vase on the 19th floor.

      - a hacker could hide some information somewhere, but what to hide?

      Anything but once you get over 4k you need a map of where and what bits are where.

      - Is there any legitimate use for that?

      See the first point.

      - Does moving the file to another location suffices to prevent any use of such a thing? (after all, if the file is moved, the block is free for reuse).

      Yes but some will consider that a plus. If the information is moved then some other entity is messing with my disk and those phone numbers mentioned in the first example were not meant for their eyes.

      sws

    4. Re:Some questions... by WalterSobchak · · Score: 1

      Good point.

      Indeed, the empty space is a nice place to hide things, but just one among very many, and obviously not specific to Linux.

      There is a wide variety of unused space on file systems in general, and media files for music, images and the like make a perfect hiding spot. Or am I missing something here about the importance of this issue?

      Alex

      --
      Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder
    5. Re:Some questions... by fyonn · · Score: 1

      > a hacker could hide some information somewhere, but what to hide?

      good place to hide a rootkit ;), much like ntfs's file "streams". unless you know where to look explicitly, you're unlikely to find it in general day to day use...

      dave

    6. Re:Some questions... by Saib0t · · Score: 1
      This is a question of security by obscurity. If everyone used exactly this technic to hide their data, everyone and their dog will be able to recover it.

      Let's assume that if you want to hide something, you'll be clever enough to at least encrypt it before storing it (or even ROT13 it). How can one determine the different between that and random bits left over from old programs, pictures?

      --

      One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
    7. Re:Some questions... by Saib0t · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that to hide information that I would think important (such as pictures, blueprints, my new DeCSS2, the plans to bomb a MacDonald for providing the world with bad food for years, ... ) take more than 4K.
      It would take more than one of such blank spaces left on the disk, which would make it very difficult to recover as I'd need to start mapping the different blocks. I think hiding data in images, movies or (way better) music would be better than putting files there or am I missing something (too)?

      --

      One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
    8. Re:Some questions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are techniques. I remember a slashdot story about someone making a "stenography-classifier" of some sort: It uses statistics to determine "the possibility" of the picture being altered for stenography purposes. You see, all data have certain characteristics. Encrypted data would have to be suspiciously random, while data left over from other files are not so random. Unless you encrypt everything! :-)

      Anyways, there's always solutions, but it gets harder to uncover them in reasonable time.

    9. Re:Some questions... by Cally · · Score: 1

      Unless you run AV software like that produced by my current employer (who shall remain nameless: if you're shopping for a/v software it's not hard to find. And of course STD disclaimer applies - I speak for myself only, etc etc) which checks NTFS alternate streams as well as the main fs.

      --
      "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
    10. Re:Some questions... by friscolr · · Score: 2
      How can one determine the different between that and random bits left over from old programs, pictures?

      your programs won't leave random bits behind, they leave program-droppings - maybe pointers, strings of data, etc. as with hiding data in image files, you have to be careful that the signature of your hidden data matches what one would expect in that area.

      do a google search for steganography to learn more about it, like into Neil Provos's stegdetect work at citi.umich.edu.

    11. Re:Some questions... by Saib0t · · Score: 2, Insightful
      There are techniques. I remember a slashdot story about someone making a "stenography-classifier" of some sort: It uses statistics to determine "the possibility" of the picture being altered for stenography purposes
      that's why I think sound files are better to hide information: If you have a RGBA picture of 800x600 pixels, that's 480000 floats where you can steal a bit or two. That's equivalent to a 44.1Khz 10 second wave file. So if you have something longer to hide, hiding it in sounds may sound (;-)) like a better idea, besides, you can do that in a way that the excessive data results in only unhearable data is added...

      Well, That's another way of hiding data, the possibilities are endless

      --

      One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
    12. Re:Some questions... by Saib0t · · Score: 1
      your programs won't leave random bits behind, they leave program-droppings
      I think you misunderstood my question (or I misunderstood your reply). I was talking about this: you have a program on the HDD, it's on a given block, you delete the program, create a 100 bytes file on that block, the remaining 3996 bytes would be filled with part of the code of the program. Now, how would a malicious person be able to figure out that the files you hide in the blank space are not leftovers from programs you deleted?

      Thanks for your advice on steganography, I bookmarked it for later reading.

      --

      One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
    13. Re:Some questions... by friscolr · · Score: 3, Interesting
      you delete the program, create a 100 bytes file on that block, the remaining 3996 bytes would be filled with part of the code of the program. Now, how would a malicious person be able to figure out that the files you hide in the blank space are not leftovers from programs you deleted?

      It depends on what kind of data you are hiding, and how that data compares to the data already there.

      the 3996 bytes left over will have a very discernable pattern: it will be machine code of the program, NOT random bytes.
      the 100 bytes encrypted file you create will be random data and will (most likely) look very different from the machine code.

      It would be like reading this message and finding a bunch of random numbers in the middle of it - you've got to ask yourself why the pattern was broken.

      A better option would be to make your encrypted data look like bytecode and not like random data, kind of like how uuencode makes binary data into ascii characters - that way it won't stand out against the other non-data in the file.

    14. Re:Some questions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective, rather than what you CAN hide there, it's more a security issue from what possibly you HAVE in the whitespace that you are unaware of. Where unaccessible for reading by the OS, some low level disk utilities are capable of reading this information.

    15. Re:Some questions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I know is we must band together and rally around our Congressmen in order to get this instrument of terror banned. We cannot allow the terrorists to get hold of this deadly technology.

    16. Re:Some questions... by HalifaxPenguin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I haven't used this, but it seems to do the trick.

      mp3stego, (Windows command line app, with source)

      something.wav + secret.data + password = something_secret.mp3

    17. Re:Some questions... by blibbleblobble · · Score: 1

      "...the plans to bomb a MacDonald for providing the world with bad food..."

      I'm guessing you're French?

    18. Re:Some questions... by peter · · Score: 1
      AFAIK, no. Not with ext2 at least if you're moving the file from one place on a filesystem to another on the same filesystem. The data doesn't actually get moved. All that changes is the link to the inode. (can somebody correct me / elaborate)
      You're right. Moving a file within the same filesystem is actually just renaming it. This is what the rename(2) system call does. Making link(2)s and unlink(2)ing from other places also has no effect, as long as there is at least one link or a program still has the file open. There is no system call to move a file between filesystems, but mv(1) will copy and then delete the source if rename(2) fails (which it will if the source and dest aren't on the same filesystem.)
      --
      #define X(x,y) x##y
      Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes , .ca)
  5. Nonsense by blane.bramble · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sorry, I fail to see how this is news (block sizes and slack space have been well known for years) or a useful technique - you'd need to have a large number of known unchanging files to store any sensible quantity of data. The obvious source would be binary executables. If you are able to store data in the slack space of binary executables, you're presumably root, in which case why not secure your data in a more sensible way.

    1. Re:Nonsense by friscolr · · Score: 3, Interesting
      If you are able to store data in the slack space of binary executables, you're presumably root

      not necessarily root, but you have root access, like in the case of a compromised system.

      until detection utilities become widespread, this would be a great place to hide your 1337 +001z like DDoS utils, portscanners, passwd crackers, lists of cc's passwds etc etc. set up a redundant distributed system across all your hacked boxen to hide files in executables and the sysadmin will not even realise what his system is housing.

    2. Re:Nonsense by tius · · Score: 1

      100% agree. Just wanted to add that anyone having access to the raw device can scan _whatever_ they want. So, if our little 'secret' filesystem has any identifiable structure then it is readily made insecure.

      Personally, I think strong custom encryption and a compact flash disk makes more sense for very sensitive info.

    3. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense? Isn't anyone tired of pretentious assholes who think any subject repeated during the course of humanity is somehow redundant or irrelevant?

      Not everyone has used linux for 5000 hours, many of us are newbies and admire fresh perspectives on previously covered subjects.

      How much would you like to slap a driving instructor, who when observing you fumble with the shifter for the first time said:
      "Geeee this whole shift thing, we covered this in the 30s, get with the program... Mkay?"

    4. Re:Nonsense by bourne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are able to store data in the slack space of binary executables, you're presumably root, in which case why not secure your data in a more sensible way.



      Unless, of course, you're just "borrowing" root access from the chappie who actually owns the box.



      A skilled attacker will hide as many signs of his intrusion as possible. This is one more method he may use, to avoid file integrity checkers like Tripwire, AIDE, and FCheck.



      As for what he's hiding? Let's say he puts a trojan sshd in place to grab passwords - those passwords could be conveniently hidden until Bad Guy can come around and collect them.


    5. Re:Nonsense by zCyl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, I fail to see how this is news (block sizes and slack space have been well known for years) or a useful technique

      Remove yourself from that high equine animal you are saddled upon. Yes, to many of us here, the idea of storing data in unused sections of a drive is old hat, and many of us have even used such a technique before for various purposes such as for copy protection flags, or for hiding information where people wouldn't think to look, etc. (which are examples of where it would be useful) The "news" in this post is not that you can hide data in the unused portions of blocks, but that a new article overviewing this technique was recently posted, so that those who are not familiar with the concept can go read it and learn about it. These are important concepts that system administrators should know about, so that they know when they can and cannot trust what the tools at their disposal (such as ls, for example) tell them about the contents of their system.

      By itself, hiding something in a system doesn't provide a very good amount of security, but in combination with other things, it can be the best form of security possible. Never underestimate the value of other people not even knowing there is a secret they need to look for.

    6. Re:Nonsense by agentZ · · Score: 2

      Things in /bin change very rarely. And they don't have to be small, only the last block has to be small relative to the block size.

    7. Re:Nonsense by blane.bramble · · Score: 1

      This isn't a computer course though. How useful do you think an article in a driving instructors magazine would be telling you where the steering wheel was?

  6. There isn't a way to prevent data hiding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...until you're free to think something without being forced to tell anyone.

  7. uses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sounds more like something you would use in an easily-defeated copy-protection scheme for software distributed on read-only media.

  8. More useful if filesystem copied whole Blocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This trick is more useful on other OSs that copy using entire blocks.

    for example data hidden in the tail portion of 512 bytes on a mac will be copied from one floppy to another on the Mac OS for the last 18 years.

    Using modern network protocols or file compression will lose these tail end bytes.

    A way of hiding data in a Mc file that survives network and file compression is to store data in the 12 byte undefined section of a resource fork header.

    Some people write 12 byte hole scanners to search for passwords and credit card numbers and somwtimes find them according to legend.

    But the mac has a concept of a physical file length and a logical file length, and the two values do not have to equal each other, and the physical file length has to be modulo 512 minimum.

    But hiding data can get easily lost, its better to hide such data in node cluster control areas rather than file tail ends.

    1. Re:More useful if filesystem copied whole Blocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But where do you find a Mac with a floppy drive these days?

    2. Re:More useful if filesystem copied whole Blocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      same priciple works with any removable recordable media (ZIP, JAZ, USB-RAM) that use HFS or HFS+ filesystem.

      HFS is common on all mac media, not just floppies.

      Floppies are just good example.

  9. Hide data in 1.44Mb blocks by tom_newton · · Score: 4, Funny

    Of course! Copy the requisite illegal plans to a floppy, jam it in a bag, and bury it in your garden. Of course, if you have a dog, he might dig it up and nark on you to the feds, but that's life I suppose :)

    Personally, my data is about as interesting as a box of dry Jacob's cream crackers, so I ain't about to go hiding it, either in my slack space *or* my window box!!!

    --
    Tom Newton
  10. Uses? by secondsun · · Score: 5, Funny

    Good for hiding all of my 1 - 4 kB pr0n.

    --
    There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
    1. Re:Uses? by motardo · · Score: 4, Funny

      more than enough size for asciipr0n :)

    2. Re:Uses? by Marwin · · Score: 1

      I normally put a . in front of the filename. That kind of encrypts the file and make it disappear, because i never see the file again when i type "ls" in my bash. Call med the Superhaxxor if you want!

    3. Re:Uses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      monolinux.com posted this story DAYS ago on their website.

    4. Re:Uses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hidden != encrypted.

    5. Re:Uses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      senseofhumor != you

  11. shred by ksw2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They didn't mention...

    shred -u [filename]

    ...in the article. It beats writing /dev/zero to your entire free space. Besides, if you try and overwrite your free space by dd'ing from /dev/zero, won't the outfile top out at 2 gigs on ext2?

    1. Re:shred by MartinG · · Score: 1

      won't the outfile top out at 2 gigs on ext2?

      No.

      --
      -- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz .@adgimnoprstu
    2. Re:shred by boaworm · · Score: 3, Informative

      Besides, if you try and overwrite your free space by dd'ing from /dev/zero, won't the outfile top out at 2 gigs on ext2?

      No, it wont. Unlexx you are writing the zero's to a file which is already larger than 2 gigs. If you write on the device (/dev/hda1 etc) you are not accessing a file or a filesystem, therefor no limitation.

      Besides, the 2 GB limitation is not valid any more, unless you use an old kernel. I made a 2.5 GB ascii file last night, and it worked fine :-)

      --
      Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
      Aristotele
    3. Re:shred by Dr_Claw · · Score: 3, Informative
      They didn't mention...
      shred -u [filename]
      ...in the article.

      Really?

      Several Linux file cleansing utilities exist. All but one can only be used to wipe files, rather than empty disk space. GNU shred (by Colin Plumb),
      ...
      As reported in shred man page "shred relies on a very important assumption: that the filesystem overwrites data in place". If this condition is not met, no secure deletion will be performed (with no error message!).
      ...
      The important fact to note is that when empty space is wiped, slack space for all files remains intact. If file is wiped (at least using current version of GNU shred), the associated slack space is NOT wiped with it!

      Mentioned, and also reasons given why it may not be as good as you think.

      Besides, if you try and overwrite your free space by dd'ing from /dev/zero, won't the outfile top out at 2 gigs on ext2?

      No. 2Gb is the maximum filesize on 32bit architectures - nothing to do with ext2. This limit can be got around anyway I believe. Besides, in this case you could just keep creating files until the partition was filled.

    4. Re:shred by matman · · Score: 2

      Some things, like libpcap still have a 2gb limit, even on new kernels.

    5. Re:shred by Ioldanach · · Score: 1

      The important fact to note is that when empty space is wiped, slack space for all files remains intact. If file is wiped (at least using current version of GNU shred), the associated slack space is NOT wiped with it!

      So maybe we should fix shred, then.

    6. Re:shred by cromano · · Score: 4, Informative
      shred -u [filename]

      Hrm... may not work with a lot of setups. From "shred --help":

      CAUTION: Note that shred relies on a very important assumption: that the filesystem overwrites data in place. This is the traditional way to do things, but many modern filesystem designs do not satisfy this assumption. The following are examples of filesystems on which shred is not effective:

      * log-structured or journaled filesystems, such as those supplied with AIX and Solaris (and JFS, ReiserFS, XFS, etc.)
      * filesystems that write redundant data and carry on even if some writes fail, such as RAID-based filesystems
      * filesystems that make snapshots, such as Network Appliance's NFS server
      * filesystems that cache in temporary locations, such as NFS version 3 clients
      * compressed filesystems

      ...Since many of the latest distributions (like RH7.2 and MDK-8.1) offer journalized FSs (ext3 by default even), shred will fail. RAIDs will fail too.

      Note as well that, unless you specify the -x option, it *will* attempt to shred the final block completely, beyond the end of the file (thus killing the hidden data).

      I'll go back to lurking now.

    7. Re:shred by prog-guru · · Score: 1

      I think your app needs to be compiled against current kernel headers to defeat the 2 GB limit. There is no 2 GB limit in ext2 or the kernel though (I think).

      --

      chris@xanadu:~$ whatis /.
      /.: nothing appropriate.

    8. Re:shred by alexburke · · Score: 1

      I made a 2.5 GB ascii file last night

      What on earth for?!

    9. Re:shred by Harik · · Score: 1
      ...Since many of the latest distributions (like RH7.2 and MDK-8.1) offer journalized FSs (ext3 by default even), shred will fail. RAIDs will fail too.

      Reiserfs, ext3, etc are all metadata-journaled filesystems, so overwriting a block will hit the same block as you were on before.

      As for RAID, the data is toast unless you have a dead drive. If you have a dead drive, degauss it before RMAing it (if you're paranoid) A RAID array HAS to write to every disk in order to be redundant. It just dosn't read from them all at all times.

      Networked filesystems have to be nuked at the source, yes. Compressed filesystems are their own bit of fun.

      And reiserFS can use that slack space for multiple file 'tails', although I don't believe it's on by default.

      --Dan

  12. What's wrong with using removable media? by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Take your data with you. Keep it with you at all times or put it somewhere more secure or less obvious than an open server.

    Yes, it's not a perfect solution but it works 99 per cent of the time. And, if you're paranoid, you can always encrypt the files on your CDR/floppy/zip/Compact Flash card/USB key chain drive for further security.

    Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:What's wrong with using removable media? by friscolr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

      Guido's fist is a rather simple solution and will come in quite handy retrieving any files he lost on my zip disk (after he's pulverized my face and stolen everything i own). i hope i was paranoid and encrypted them...

      i prefer storing everything on my servers b/c i never know what's going to happen to that removable media. I've never had anything stolen of of me but have had to chase down people who've tried to steal my shit and have known plenty of people who have had their phyiscal stuff stolen from them (pickpocketing, muggings, etc) and plenty more people who are very forgetful and lose zips/cds/etc everywhere.

      I find some interesting data around town from people who thought storing on removable media suited them! As long as you *can* keep it safe on you, that's fine.

  13. Good or Evil? by juliao · · Score: 2, Insightful
    As for securely wiping files, most of us already know a bit about it.

    Regarding slack space, yes, it works as described, you can use slack space to write your data, and hope that it doesn't get overwritten when the file grows.

    Using encription and spanning multiple slack zones, namely on binary files, you can, for instance, write a tool that encrypts a file, writes it on a number of slack zones for the files in /usr/bin (since these won't grow much over time, will they?), and then is able to recover the file.

    You can even write the tool so that it creates two pipes, one to read, another to write.

    But in the end, is this good or bad? Like it is said in the article, it can as easily be used to hide evidence as it can be to plant evidence.

    What should we do? Write tools to use this to our advantage, or write tools to automatically wipe clean the slack area and render this inoperant?

    Or should we do both?

  14. FBI caught a traitor who did this on a floppy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Less than a years ago the FBI caught a guy who used various technologies such as this exact trick on a floppy, and ram storage, and other pda things, to help hide and transport stolen military secrets.

    This exact trick (hidden portions on tail ends of files) was cited in one news article.

    He got caught. Why? Because the forensic tools are designed to work on DELETED files adn totally IGNORE THE FILE STRUCTURES ON MEDIA.

    The many commercial forensic tools work on entire blocks of data and ignore the lengths of files when foing a default scan of a hard drive or floppy.

    So this type of hiding is silly, even if encrypted.

    The FBIs tools they purchase will find it.

    1. Re:FBI caught a traitor who did this on a floppy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what Taco is interested in is not hiding data from the FBI, but other people who might use his computer (such as Ms. Fent).

    2. Re:FBI caught a traitor who did this on a floppy by Ayon+Rantz · · Score: 1

      How on earth do you catch someone on a floppy? Can't have been much left of him when they were finished. What you get for being a traitor I guess.

      --
      Pokéthulhu
      Gotta catch you all!
    3. Re:FBI caught a traitor who did this on a floppy by SLi · · Score: 1
      So this type of hiding is silly, even if encrypted.

      Well, I don't know. You might have a reason to hide the fact that you have encrypted data at all. Although this doesn't probably work quite as well unless a lot of people with "nothing to hide" start to format their disks so that unused areas have random data...

      Anyway, with a good encryption scheme it's even theoretically impossible to distinguish encrypted data from random data.

    4. Re:FBI caught a traitor who did this on a floppy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A friend of mine has recently begun doing computer forensics investigations (for companies who suspect employees of theft or using company computers for inappropriate activities). The class he took to learn to use his new forensics software was quite enlightening. Most of the other students were law enforcment types. There were people from the FBI, a guy from the CIA, plenty of cops from sheriff's departments and municipal police departments, and even a few cops from overseas.

      The cops know all about steganography, PGP and lots of other ways to keep them from finding data. They've encountered PCs that were equipped with disconnected hard drives that contained all the bad stuff. When they've found someone with a PC so heavily encrypted they couldn't break the encryption, they used other methods to obtain the passwords necessary (keylogging, social engineering, etc.).

      As Bruce Schneier pointed out in Secrets and Lies, encryption can be great--people are fallible. The best way to avoid having the police find incriminating evidence on your PC is to simply not create the incriminating evidence in the first place. Barring that, staying under their radar is your next best hope. If you draw the attention of law enforcement and you're doing bad things with your computer, the odds are quite high that they'll get you if it's important enough to them.

      Right now, they're overwhelmed with kiddie-porn investigations. If you're a connoisseur of child pornography and law enforcement gets a tip or a lead that points them to you, they'll get you.

      I'm a huge advocate for first amendment and privacy rights, but I don't think I have a problem with cops nailing kiddie porn collectors.

  15. Too fragile for many uses by Bowfinger · · Score: 3, Informative
    Beware that this hidden data is extremely fragile. It will not be preserved when copying files. It will only be backed up if you choose to backup the raw file system or drive. If you use file-oriented backups like cpio, you'll lose the hidden information.

    You could rename the file or link to it without losing data. You could rename a parent directory successfully. If you tried to copy the directory, however, you'd lose the data. In short, if you do anything that changes the file's location on the disk, the secret data is lost, or at least disassociated with the original file name and vulnerable to overwriting.

    1. Re:Too fragile for many uses by Alsee · · Score: 2

      Beware that this hidden data is extremely fragile.

      Systems have thousands of files each with it's own slack space. Just use redundancy. It doesn't matter if half your data gets overwritten if it's stored 10 times.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  16. but a more practical use? by transiit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Alright, so you could hide data within the trailing unused space of a block, (IIRC, people like Tanenbaum refer to this as internal fragmentation), and the article says you could use a tool like bmap to handily stuff data in this space....but for those who aren't convinced this does much in the way of hiding anything, could a more practical use be put into place for the slack space? Perhaps write support into the filesystem that would start stuffing things in a relatively (user) transparent way...thus finally making a 10GB disk something much closer to holding 10GB (base-2 or 10 calculations of a GB aside)?

    Or perhaps some sort of piggyback filesystem that uses the slack space but would be mounted as a separate partition?

    I'd imagine this would introduce lots of external fragmentation on anything stored there, but as a separate filesystem, you could suffer those pains and move your "current, but not often accessed" files there, where you really don't care if you suffer a bit of a performance hit because it's still a whole lot better than reading it from backups.

    -transiit

    1. Re:but a more practical use? by braque · · Score: 1

      reiserfs has such a feature: pack the tails of files together in one block

    2. Re:but a more practical use? by ceswiedler · · Score: 2

      Ok, so you want to store data in the unused parts of the filesystem. How are you going to keep track of it? Well, a tried-and-true way is to use the concept of addressing through blocks and then use an inode/block/extent structure to keep track of which data corresponding to which file is in which block. And you know what? You'd *STILL* probably waste space, so why not implement a mapping structure which keeps track of data stored in the holes of the blocks stored in the holes of the blocks of the original filesystem.

      In other words...you'd have to implement a filesystem again, using smaller blocks, and gain nothing. Worse than nothing, since the "first" filesystem will be keeping track of its own data in the first part of each block, the "second" filesystem will have to cope with variable-sized blocks, which means more overhead.

      If you want to waste less space on your drive (silly, considering the cost per gig these days) just use smaller blocks. And suffer a performance hit, of course, and reduce the upper limit on the size of your drive, and...

    3. Re:but a more practical use? by AJWM · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's an old technique. IIRC, BSD 4.2's fast filesystem for the VAX had this circa, what, 1984 or so? (Well, a variation of this. Normal block size was 4K but this could be reduced to 1K for the last block of a file, with the last 1K block of several files sharing a real 4K block).

      This was actually quite a leap at the time, since blocks were typically only 512b or 1K then. The 4K made it fast, the 1K tail merging made it less wasteful of expensive disk space.

      --
      -- Alastair
  17. Novel Netware 5.x by yzquxnet · · Score: 1

    The file system that comes with the latest releases of Netware allows you to use that extra space. The file system varies the size of the cluster (or block, I forget what it is) to tailer the filesystem to the data. This way if you have a 5k file on 4k filesystem you may only use 6k instead of 8k because the file system gives the file a 4k and a 2k area to store the file.

    Why hide the data when you can use that area and reclaim space. On a big drive it can add up pretty quickly. But still is no massive sum.

  18. Defragmentation by Novus · · Score: 1

    How many BOFHs do you think will start to threaten to defragment users' workstations (using a tool that doesn't do use direct block copying, of course) just to see if they have hidden data on their disks?

  19. Virus/Trojan! by malaba · · Score: 1

    storing small exe ?

    virus/tronjan!

    perfect way to hide backdoor
    RootKit have another cool hack to exploit...

    my 2 cent

  20. Rubberhose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Or you could do it right...

    http://www.rubberhose.org/

    Cheers

  21. Make sure you have the right FS by mnordstr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just make sure you don't use a smart filesystem like ReiserFS, which can use the slack space for storage. If you try to put something in its slack space you might find yourself a bit lost...

    1. Re:Make sure you have the right FS by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 2

      Older versions of ReiserFS didn't zero out the slack and nevertheless exposed it to non-privileged processes. Using ReiserFS for security in this context is a really strange thing to do.

  22. Does not work with ReiserFS by Anders · · Score: 5, Informative

    I did not see it mentioned that ReiserFS is able to "pack tails", which means that the ending parts of files that do not fill an entire disk block (typically 4KB) are not stored in their own block. Thereby, it does not waste (on average) 2KB per file.

    Actually using the disk blocks seems, to me, more appropriate than hiding stuff in them. There is even work in progress of an ext2 version of this technique.

  23. Nothing new here... move along. by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Informative

    This technique is really *old*. I once had a DOS game that used this to prevent casual copying - the installer was writing additional data into the slack space at the end of it's main executable. There was something similar on the floppy too. I think what it was doing was hashing the data on the floppy with whatever was generated on the HDD, but since I just NOP'ed over the subroutine call, I really didn't need to look too closely. Or require my diskette to play the game for that matter. ;)

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  24. Won't hide from raw access by redelm · · Score: 5, Interesting
    File/block slack is hardly news. Nor is it even moderately secure.

    One of the first things a forensic analyst will do, mostly in search of deleted blocks is `strings /dev/hda1`. More likely off a ro image, but out everything ASCII will pop.

    Have a look at The Coroner's Toolkit

    1. Re:Won't hide from raw access by Stickster · · Score: 2, Informative

      On Linux, the chattr(1) command will allow you to set the secure deletion attribute of selected files, so that when deleted their allocated block space is wiped with 0x00 values. It would be trivial for a user to set up aliases or cron jobs to ensure that all this flag is set on all her data.

      As for searching slack, there are plenty of Perl scripts to cull for interesting data such as IP's, credit card numbers, and other patterned text.

    2. Re:Won't hide from raw access by redelm · · Score: 1
      Has the `s` flag been implemented in 2.4? My manpage says it wasn't implemented [working] in 2.2 .


      *BSD has the -P flag for `rm`, but I don't know if it wipes full blocks, or just the listed filelength.

    3. Re:Won't hide from raw access by markmoss · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, searching the raw data would definitely pop up ASCII strings in the slack space -- and it's quite likely the first thing the FBI would do if it was searching your HD for evidence that, say, you were plotting a terrorist attack on the MPAA, would be to search the entire disk for "MPAA" and "bomb".

      So, encrypt it before you hide it in the tail. Make sure the encryption format doesn't have a recognizable header. If you don't want to bother with real encryption, exclusive-OR with 0xAA, and it will look like random leftover binary data, just what would be expected to be left in the slack space. Just don't write how and where you hid it on a sticky note...

    4. Re:Won't hide from raw access by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the coroner's handbook link - I hadn't come across this one before, and it's quite good... :-)

      someone mod this poster up +n informative...

    5. Re:Won't hide from raw access by kirn_malinus · · Score: 1

      and if you're encrypting it, use an algorithm that splits it into say 2kb chunks automatically and creates a lookup table of sorts as the main file you access, that can be decrypted to reveal the locations of the other pieces and used to put it all back together. that should make for a relatively secure storage scheme for a moderate amount of data.

      --
      All circuits busy.
  25. Mounted dirs by ceeam · · Score: 1

    Storing smth into some dir like /var and then mounting some partition onto it is about as nice, IMHO.

  26. I used to be paranoid.. by linuxrunner · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And I used to encrypt everything... Hide files, secure my boxes with passwords that were ridiculous!!!!

    Then..

    I had to stop and wonder why I was doing it. No one was writing e-mail to my using my PGP. Even though I made it available on my web site, and sent as attachments to people could e-mail me back using it. No one did.
    I bought secure removable media. A chain to keep it on me. And had it encrypted. Now i just keep it in a bag with my laptop and never bother to use it.
    My palm pilot has encrypted media.
    No ones ever touched it... I just keep it on my desk hooked up to my Linux box for easy syncing...

    What's my point.. Do I have one? MAYBE.

    I stopped because I was lazy. I didn't have anything to hide, nothing I do is that important that I have to encrypt it. My code is opensource, and my bank info and passwords, etc are kept on my linux laptop, not on a server.

    I guess, I'd like to know Who is using constant encryption and why?
    For me, Encryption needs to be strong, standard, and integrated, otherwise it's just a pain.

    This of this as an e-mail client. Kinda like PGP but easier.
    I write an e-mail. I click "send". My e-mail client checks the "encryption" server. It finds a match for the e-mail recipient I'm sending to and downloads the PGP file and encrypts the e-mail to the recipients specifications. I did not have to do anything. If no PGP key is found then it will be sent unencrypted and let you know that it is doing so.

    --
    www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
    1. Re:I used to be paranoid.. by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I stopped because I was lazy. I didn't have anything to hide

      This is the essential problem. Crypto needs to be easy enough to use, that people who are lazy and have nothing to hide, will still do it anyway by default.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    2. Re:I used to be paranoid.. by scorbett · · Score: 1
      This of this as an e-mail client. Kinda like PGP but easier. I write an e-mail. I click "send". My e-mail client checks the "encryption" server. It finds a match for the e-mail recipient I'm sending to and downloads the PGP file and encrypts the e-mail to the recipients specifications. I did not have to do anything. If no PGP key is found then it will be sent unencrypted and let you know that it is doing so.

      I used to work for a company that created an email app that worked exactly as you describe here (except with a proprietary encryption alg instead of PGP). It worked as a proxy instead of a client so that you could plug it in to pretty much any mail client you wanted (Netscape messenger, Pegasus, Eudora, Outlook, etc). It was a pretty neat product, and extremely easy to use, but it did have a couple of major disadvantages:

      • Central server. If the certificate server was down, no one could send encrypted mail.
      • Related to the above, having one central server wouldn't scale very well. If millions of people had started using our product, our poor little key server would have been overloaded.
      In the end, the product failed miserably. The crypto community (rightly) scorned us for using a proprietary, closed source algorithm. However, the idea itself was pretty cool, and certainly much easier to use than any existing email encryption system.

    3. Re:I used to be paranoid.. by friscolr · · Score: 1
      I guess, I'd like to know Who is using constant encryption and why?
      For me, Encryption needs to be strong, standard, and integrated, otherwise it's just a pain.

      ssh, https://, /etc/shadow are quite common and good uses.
      dvds and 802.11b incorporate broken encryption schemes but are quite common.
      these meet your criteria (strong, standard, integrated) and as you pointed out, that's why they are constantly used.

      the other less common steganographic and encryption techniques will be used by people who are fascinate by them, need to use them, or feel they need to use them. and eventually the better techniques will become easier to use, more integrated, stronger, and will become more widespread, e.g. more companies are using vpn's and ipsec, OpenBSD has encrypted swap space, etc.

    4. Re:I used to be paranoid.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are lots of email clients which will do this with pgp keys.

      I personally use enigmail and it seems to work fairly well with mozilla and gpg for a complete open source solution.

      However do you really want it to go out there and download keys without any verification that these are from the person you think it is. You'd have to already have a pretty large web of trust with everyone signing everything for it to work securly.

    5. Re:I used to be paranoid.. by wurp · · Score: 2

      Check out www.hushmail.com. Transparent encryption, you can sign documents and people can verify your signature at the hushmail site even if they don't use hushmail, and it interoperates with OpenPGP.

    6. Re:I used to be paranoid.. by markj02 · · Score: 2

      For laptops and PDAs, which may get lost or stolen, it makes sense to encrypt passwords and account numbers

    7. Re:I used to be paranoid.. by brad3378 · · Score: 2

      A buddy of mine bought one of those "biometric" things. It's basically a USB fingerprint scanner, but to my knowledge it only works with Windows XP at the moment.

      It's very easy. If you want to login you just put your finger on the scanner and the computer does the rest. If you like having muliple accounts, no problem. Use one finger for your superuser account, and another finger for your main account.
      Unless you belong to a circus, I imagine that you could have 10 accounts per person.

      Another feature it has is the ability to encrypt individual files. As far as I can tell, it acts like winzip.

      So why don't I have one?
      They're still a little pricey. about $70.00
      It's a "gee whiz" coolness factor now, but until they drop down to about $30.00 and offer linux support, I won't bother.

      --

  27. Any programs to zero out this "hidden" data? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How hard would it be to write?
    I'm guessing it's not very difficult.

  28. Re:Too fragile for many uses - NOT TRUE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not fragile on a mac.

    A mac will faithfully copy a file and round up to 512 bytes if needed under HFS and HFS+ OS's.

    Probably on all mountable OSs except over networks on a mac.

    Under Linux, who knows, have to sheck the source I guess or try it.

  29. Another way to hide some files by WetCat · · Score: 1

    Here is another way to hide some files in
    Linux, at least temporary...
    cp file_to_hide /mnt
    mount /dev/hda4 /mnt
    ls /mnt
    {stuff from hda4}
    Almost the same level of protection as in that article...

    1. Re:Another way to hide some files by iamsure · · Score: 2

      In your example, if /mnt was part of the / partition, then df would show that usage.

      Thus, the article's example is a little bit better.

    2. Re:Another way to hide some files by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NFS exporting / and NFS mounting it would show the old contents of /mnt.

  30. The only use for this... by Procrasti · · Score: 1

    The only real use I can see for this is hiding information on someone else's compromised machine...

    Great....

  31. I haven't seen anyone mention this... by SkyLeach · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are several practical problems with this.

    First: defragmenting. If you run any utility to defragment your drive, the data will (probably) be lost.

    Second: Don't move that file! If you don't know what file space your "secret" data is stored in, then moving, adding, deleting, copying or otherwise altering (editing) any file may destroy some part of your hidden information. Remember that you only have 4k to work with at any given time. This isn't a huge amount of space. You start hiding data all over the place and you quickly start running into this risk.

    Third: The govm't and spies aren't stupid. They will have thought of this possibility. In order to implement such file-hiding techniques you would almost certainly need to implement some type of disk partition and format management system on top of the existing one in order to avoid the problems mentioned above. It isn't very hard to search for direct-to-disk calls, and checking the kernel source for partion management against current versions to see if it has been altered is easy too. Unless you hide the source code for your (ext3.01?) filesystem somewhere else or in your hidden system area (pretty hard to do) then the person searching for your data has some pretty clear evidence of where to look for your stuff and how to get at it.

    --
    My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so :-p
    1. Re:I haven't seen anyone mention this... by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First: defragmenting. If you run any utility to defragment your drive, the data will (probably) be lost.

      I wouldn't be too sure about that. I suspect that most defraggers (well, at least a cheesy DOS FAT one that I wrote in the 80s ;-) always move entire blocks, so the data would be preserved. i.e. if a 4k clustersize (DOS terminology) and a 5k file, my defragger would move two 4k clusters instead of having extra code that knows that on second block, only 1k needs to be read and written. I just looked at what clusters were allocated to a file, not what the actual filesize was, in the dirctory.

      (I wholeheartedly agree with your other points.)

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    2. Re:I haven't seen anyone mention this... by Enonu · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Correct me if I'm wrong (and please give a reference), but doesn't Linux handle files by entire blocks? Thus, defragmenting, copying, moving, and adding to other files should not hurt your own data. For example, here's defragmentation:

      before:

      [A][B][A-extra][B]

      after:
      [A][A-extra][B][B]

      [A-extra] is the block of data with the additional information hidden.

      However, this obviously doesn't hold between partitions or other file systems, e.g. copying a file from ext2f to ntfs.

  32. Re:I don't see why not! by selderrr · · Score: 1

    yeah, but apparently, some lame moderator with humor up his ass moderated me offtopic.. jeez.. if I had said CowboyNeal instead of my mum-in-law, I'd probably be moderated (+4,funny)

  33. Use ReiserFS by Mike+Greaves · · Score: 1

    ...And much of this wasted space is available to the *legitimate* filesystem on the volume...

    And "Hiding" is an interesting term here. It's not hidden, if it's not encrypted; and if it's encrypted, why bother with such nonsense...

    --
    -- Mike Greaves
    1. Re:Use ReiserFS by SLi · · Score: 1
      And "Hiding" is an interesting term here. It's not hidden, if it's not encrypted; and if it's encrypted, why bother with such nonsense...

      Well, suppose you live in a remote tyranny where you land in jail for only, say, 15 years for using encryption instead of being executed when caught with the message.

      In that case a good encryption is a bliss and a way to hide the encryption a huge convenience in any case. :)

  34. Rubberhose by bluelip · · Score: 1

    Try this link. It allows for hiding partitions and for encryption.

    --

    Yep, I never spell check.
    More incorrect spellings can be found he
  35. Hey! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    where's the etch-o-sketch p0rn??

    1. Re:Hey! by destiney · · Score: 1


      It's pr0n you dumbass..

    2. Re:Hey! by Mr_Matt · · Score: 2

      It's pr0n you dumbass..

      ...unless it's pr0n made of ASCII text characters, in which case it's...you guessed it...asciipr0n.

      Click the link, genius. :)

      --


      But what does my opinion matter, I just vote here. It's not like I have any money or anything.
  36. About the defrag. by SkyLeach · · Score: 1

    The reason I said probably in the first post about the defrag operation is because many (not all, and I have NO IDEA about the ext2/3 code) don't actually read the whole block from the disk if only the first 100 bytes are needed. Still others only write out the actual copied data (100 bytes) to the new block. Thus if you have following possibilities...

    [A][B][Afrag-secretstuff][Bfrag-secretstuff]
    An d you defragment you could have
    [A][Afrag-gargage][Bbfrag-garbage]
    either because the defragmenter read only
    [Afrag] or [Bfrag] or wrote only [Afrag] or [Bfrag] to the disk.

    Now obviously, a defragger which copies only blocks (like the old Win stuff) would not do this.

    --
    My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so :-p
  37. booooring.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    viruses have used this trick since the early 80s. tell us something new.

  38. Decss by slug359 · · Score: 1

    another place to hide decss then ;)

  39. Hmm. by mindstrm · · Score: 2

    This would also be file-systme specific.

    This would not work in ReiserFS. ReiserFS uses that slack space for storing small files.
    (I think...)

  40. Steganography by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative


    A better way to hide data on a hard disk would be to use steganography, where the data is encrypted using a data-whitening algorithm and files that aren't standard. Anything you hide on a hard disk, even in the slack area, can be read by manually reading every byte of data on the disk, regardless of the OS or the file utilities used. As a note, the CIA knows this, and they grind up the hard drives they use for secret data. (and even then they don't just throw it away)

  41. Not hidden at all ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How to retrieve hidden info from the floppy :

    dd if=/dev/fd0 of=floppy.bin

    and search into floppy.bin, that's all :-)

  42. A thought by gnovos · · Score: 2

    I may just be naive here, but why are files sotred in this way? It seems to be the smart way to implement a filesystem would be to have one monolithif "file" that spanned every block in the whole disk, and have a "virtual" filesystem driver that reads/writes/defragemtns/etc that large file as though it were a physical disk. You would never see loss to block size again, and it would have other benifits too, like making make automagic encryption a breeze.

    --
    "Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
    1. Re:A thought by AJWM · · Score: 2

      Congratulations, you've just invented the loopback file system ;-) Or perhaps the 'ar' file format.

      Seriously, it's way too much overhead for most use, disk is usually cheap enough to go with simpler systems that permit much faster I/O if at the expense of a bit of "wasted" space.

      OTOH, the approach can have its uses. Years ago I had an account on a CDC Cyber NOS system with a "disk quota" based on the number of files, not the total size. I just implemented a simple version of "ar" and kept things in archive files except while I was actually using them.

      --
      -- Alastair
  43. Raw device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Bypass the filesystem entirely. Write the the last sectors on the disk.

    Just don't fill up your partition...

  44. This sounds familiar... by jharper · · Score: 1
    I wrote about this very same thing four or so years ago! If I knew it was a worthwhile idea then, I would have done something with it. Instead I thought, "hey, I'm just a little kid, what the fuck do I know?" Hell, when I was thirteen or so I told my parents I had this crazy idea for magnetically powered trains, only to be informed that some crackpot had beaten me to the punch by twenty years with MagLev. Ever since, I just assumed that whatever I come up with have been already discovered. Damnit damnit damnit to hell!

    Oh, and to whoever was asking about the uses for this: data can be hidden with system files, where the information will not be moved. It can be used to conceal anything that needs concealing, preferably in conjuction with encryption. This provides both the benefit of additional security for the data, as well as making it less likely for someone to stumble upon the data and say, "hey, this is valid data!" Encryption is good for that sort of thing sometimes. So if Dear Old Bush's Bastards Enforcing the Right (D.O.B.B.E.R.) come after your essays concerning the effects that Bush's policies are having on our already horrid relationship with the rest of the world, those bungling bumpkins from the Three-Letter-Agencies will hopefully not be able to discover "Anti-American" things. Or you might not want your girlfriend to discover your dirty, dirty porn collection. Or you just might be one paranoid kinda guy. There's a lot of uses, really.

  45. Not always the case... by Dstrct0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    My girlfriend is actually the one with the "dirty, dirty porn collection". She was mad enough when I hid her cigarettes, I'd hate to think what would happen if I hid her porn :)

    --
    Build boards not bombs
  46. It's about what already *is* lurking on your HDD by gotan · · Score: 2

    Many have pointed out, that the technique of hiding data in leftover chunks of blocks isn't very useful in most cases. But that's missing the main point of the article i think. The main point of the article is, that there already is lurking a lot of data in those chunks, and that, unlike free blocks, this data is unlikely to be overwritten unless the associated file (which the block is part of) is altered. I think this is far more interesting, maybe in the enron case or the likes, where computers are scanned for just such evidence which might lurk in thousands of places scattered all over the system and survive longer than anticipated.
    --

    --
    "By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
  47. I use constant encryption by Sits · · Score: 1

    I use ssh (and it's associated utilities) exclusively when logging into remote boxes non-annoymously. A few years ago somone showed me how very easy it was to sniff traffic and I've been more careful ever since.

    1. Re:I use constant encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you actually used constant encryption, other people wouldn't be able to read what you post on slashdot. ;-)

      Anyway, I use a lot of encryption (ssh, never rsh/telnet even over an encrypted tunnel to a private network) for network traffic, but I hardly ever encrypt files on my hard disk or mail. I wouldn't consider myself to use constant encryption...

  48. Here's a legitimate use. by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1

    Why hide it at all? Why not mount another filesystem that uses this space exclusively? Imagine mounting a filesystem, whose total size is equal to all the cluster waste on your hard drive? Then treat it identical to any other drive. When you're finished copying your stuff to it, unmount it. Or better yet, write a driver that syncs your normal cluster space with your wasted cluster space, so as to prevent data loss in some way... Surely there is a use for this! It would be a great place to toss all unused cookies or other cruft that I wouldn't otherwise want to take up space... A temporary drive of sorts? What do you hackers think, would it be hard to write a filesystem that uses this?

    1. Re:Here's a legitimate use. by Saib0t · · Score: 1
      Why hide it at all? Why not mount another filesystem that uses this space exclusively

      because on your other filesystem, you'd have to store the full address of the chunks where you write, which would actually be equivalent to making the normal file system not use 4K blocks in the first place.

      Besides, maintaining consistency would be a mess, what if you delete a block on the "normal" partition and overwrite the whole block with content?
      A driver that syncs your normal cluster space with your wasted cluster space would again be identical to not using block on the first FS.

      At least that's what I think and I'll continue to think it until someone shows me my beliefs are wrong (it's the same for all of my beliefs actually ;-) )

      --

      One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
  49. HEX by BiggyP · · Score: 1

    it can be quite entertaining to open up a whole filesystem in a hex editor and just poking around to see what you can find, wouldn't it be possible to find this data that way?

  50. How to do this correctly by lost_it · · Score: 2, Informative

    Check out rubberhose (www.rubberhose.org). It allows you to take a partition, and encrypt different data (and the corresponding parts of the filesystem) on the partition with different passphrases. You can only read the segment(s) that you have the passphrase(s) for. When a file is deleted, it is replaced with random noise. So when someone asks you to hand over the password, you gladly hand them one. They get to see whatever that password encoded, but not the other stuff. And they can never prove (and you can never prove) that you did or didn't hand over all of the passwords.

    The disadvantage: because there is no way to tell whether there might be other data on the drive, if you don't have all of the passwords and write to the drive, you may overwrite data encrypted with another password (when data is written, it is scattered on the drive). But it's still a lot better than trying to hide data in the extra room of a block.

    According to their website, this is used by civil rights activists who are in hostile nations (where "subpoena" is spelled t-o-r-t-u-r-e).

  51. Could you stitch this into a file system? by Mr_Huber · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if anyone has ever built tiny file system on this concept. In theory, its not too hard. It would look very similar to a modern block-oriented file system, but with very tiny, variable sized blocks organized as inodes.

    The chief objection is that the data may go missing if it is defragged or modified. The solution may be a simple as looking at last modification dates. Many of the system files on both Unix and Windows machines (/usr/bin, c:\Windows\System32) are quite small and are very rarely modified. There could be enough space spread among these files to stitch together into space for several dozen KB of compressed information. Plus, good compression should yield data blocks that look quite a bit like noise.

    The other problem is hiding the program to run the file system. But that itself could be hidden in the file system if a small enough bootstrap could be written. Alternately, it could live on a floppy, providing a key, of sorts.

  52. Why not just hide the data in the allocation ? by kentsin · · Score: 1

    It seems good, but why not hide the data by controll the allocation of blocks?

  53. Security has never been an absolute... by jerryasher · · Score: 1

    "And I used to encrypt everything."

    Security has never been an absolute. The value of security has always been judged as a comparison of security costs versus the value of what is being secured.

    Do you always lock your car door? Do you always lock your hose door? Do you always use landline phones? Do you always try to pick a decently hard pin for your ATM cards? (No, no, no, yes). How come?

  54. Hushmail doesn't work with Linux/Mozilla by fialar · · Score: 1

    I de-registered my Hushmail because Hushmail v2.0
    doesn't work with Mozilla or Linux.

    I believe Netscape 4.xx is crippled to that aspect, so I dropped the account.

    heck, if you can't "upgrade" your account without having to boot into windows and use IE, what's the point?

    fialar

    1. Re:Hushmail doesn't work with Linux/Mozilla by wurp · · Score: 2

      It works fine on my Netscape 4.78 on RedHat 7.1. With Netscape you do have to make sure that you're using the netscape 4 plugin with ns 4 for hushmail. The NS 6 plugin seems to work fine for most java applets, but it nukes the window when you try hushmail with it. But the NS 4 plugin (with Netscape 4.78) works like a champ for me. I use only Linux...

  55. Lotus Notes by juu · · Score: 1

    I write an e-mail. I click "send". My e-mail client checks the "encryption" server. It finds a match for the e-mail recipient I'm sending to and downloads the PGP file and encrypts the e-mail to the recipients specifications. I did not have to do anything. If no PGP key is found then it will be sent unencrypted and let you know that it is doing so.

    Sounds like Lotus Notes, when configured right - except I don't think it does PGP, just internal public key crypto to other LN users.

  56. Wrong Way: Hiding is not the answer by northwind · · Score: 1

    Hiding information (that you apparently don't want others to see) is the lowest (and most outdated) form of security known. A few wars - including WW2 - show that the most reliable way to protect your information is a strong encryption. So while it is fun that you can use wasted space (duh) - it does appear to have only academic interest.