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PC Fan of the Future?
baptiste writes "While we marvel at the latest CPU release or new motherboard chipset, we still put the same old fans in the neon lit cases and then complain that it is too loud. Well, maybe someone has finally come up with the next generation PC fan. Y.S. Tech has announced a new fan which is driven at the blade tips by a magnetic motor in the housing. Without the motor in the middle they claim a 30% airflow improvement meaning, potenitally, you could get the same airflow of today's fans at a lower RPM meaning less noise. They also claim the fan tips result in the bulk of fan noise. In this design they are sort of enclosed, reducing noise further. There is also a PDF datasheet available."
It's about time! I have seen some fans that apple curved tips and other methods to reduce noise, but this sounds like something that could be even more useful.
It seems to me that these fans sould also be more reliable. You don't need the axis to be anywhere near as complicated, since all it's doing now is providing a center of rotation. The motor is less likely to burn out, and also runs at a lower speed, which is always a good thing when it comes to longevity of hardware.
± 29 dB
interesting, I thought submersables used this already to get internal waterflow. because they couldn't have long lasting waterproof motors within the pipes, they had a fan that was driven by the outer ring so they didn't have the actual motor and electrical perts exposed to the water, I remember that they said something about the pressure and salt water being corrosive and the normal pumping systems not working well.
I'm still trying to fing an article, but it might have been in an issue of popular mechanics.
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
Euck!
dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
Check out their FAQ page for details about how to get a free sample fan for testing and reviewing. The only catch is that you must have a website, and presumably you are meant to post a review on your site.
This is why dual-fan HSF setups primarily dominated, especially back when slot CPUs were still popular: you didn't have that static area of air. Sure, you had a hell of a lot more airflow from two fans, but one can argue that a lot of the kinetic energy is lost when air from the two fans collide.
Either way, this is a great improvement for CPU fans. Bravo, Y.S. Tech, it looks like you're taking the crown back from Delta (which is just more RPM, albeit much more noisy, for better performance).
So with my blinkenlights all taped up, and my fan silent.. I just need a way to find out if my systems are still running.
A big part of this for me is being able to turn off the MP3's every so often and have enough silence to think! I'd rather have a 500mhz that can do all the development I can throw at it, than a 747 powered fan sitting on top of a Gigahertz!
Seems that some of these companies are catching on that it might be possible to have the best of both worlds. My hope is that consumers will follow along enough to bring the cost of production low enough that even I can afford them. :)
The more you know, the less you understand.
Wow... I'm suprised nobody has though of this before. The design looks quite simple and is better than a traditional fan, much more so than just its looks.
The website shows here some of the interesting effects of moving the motor to the outside. The most important implication is that airflow is inceased near the perpendicular axis to the fan, ie., more air blows in the center of the fan than the traditional design allows. This helps out in heatsink designs in that it allows more air to cool the inner parts of the sink and thus cool it closer to the cpu core itself. The efficiency of the heatsink is now improved without a major redesign.
In the near future, I'm sure this technology will migrate to large fans for the case and powersupply, where its reduced noise will be appreciated.
--- At my sig, unleash hell.
Since samples aren't even going to be available until April, I'm guessing they don't know what all of the manufacturing costs are going to be yet.
It seems like every once in a while someone comes up with a latest-greatest new heatsink design. I've seen weird platinum peacock feathers and those wavy metal strips from a while back. They all look kind of goofy, and when really put to the test, don't do too much better. Short of pipes nd pumps, big hunks of copper attached to really fast traditional fans are still the best thing going, and I don't think that's for lack of effort at finding new things.
Because this is an improvement on the *fan* and not the whole heatsink, I give it a little more credence, but I won't be that interested until I actually see some Tom's numbers on it.
And I really won't be interested in it until the pricetag falls below $100 for a fan. For that money you could water-cool, or just soundproof your case.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Since the motor is located on the outer edges of the fan, would this have any effect on the lifespan of the fan? How about dirt accumulation?
The main problems I have with my cooling fans are balance, and dirt. When a fan has been running for a long enough time, somehow its balance shifts, and makes horrible loud noises. My server box is located in my closet, on the floor, with plenty of dust getting sucked into the case. It eventually got so bad that it caused the power supply fan to stop moving...
If this new fan design can overcome or lessen these problems, then I'll buy them as soon as they are available!
Who needs a fan when you can buy a new Imac from apple thats so quiet and flow-efficent ya dunt even need a stinking loud fan or a quiter one!! and u can run linux on these macs!
This postsoon to be modded down by humorless people......
The point is that airflow increases with rpm times the SQUARE of diameter, which means if you make the fan 2x as big, you can make it 4x slower. The original NeXT boxes used a big, slow-turning fan to keep noise down, and it was quite effective. PC's usually use 3 inch fans but with some case mods could probably be set up with 5 inch fans, which for the same airflow could quiet things down a lot.
Add to that a hard disk with a fluid bearing spindle motor (pdf) and you've got a rather civilized box on your desk. I'm using one of these drives now (Travelstar 30GN) and the difference between it and an old drive is wonderful. The quietness is like getting rid of a toothache.
Almost all Apples SILENT (Apple 2, Apple 3, Mac+, IIfx, iMac, Cube, iBook, Newton, etc.
That is almost the main engineering case design criteria and why so many fussy demanding people like artists, musicians, scientists (chemists, biologists) and even programmers continue to support apple products.
PeeCees are like load aircraft carriers or at least Vaccuum cleaners comapred to the majority of the most popular selling Apple Computers.
Did you know the Apple 2 had NO FAN at all?
Same with the Mac Plus... no FAN at all.
and most all the products since the IIfx have a variable speed fan that increases rotation only if truly needed... like the Wallstreet G3 laptops.
When Steve jobs created the NeXT workstation he designed every cable to be one long 10 foot single cable so that the machine (almost quiet) could be hidden insode a closet or put very far from your monitor! He hates noise of all kinds.
Hurray for quiet or semi-quiet hardware.
There may be good economic reasons to put the motor parts on the OD of the fan and that is good. But, all statements about the air flow and cooling capabilities are pure PR.
First, the velocity of the blades near the hub are too slow to put work into the air and therefore the air tends to leak backwards near the hub. This is why putting the motor in the hub area does not degrade fan performance.
Second, while the fastest parts of the fan (the blade tips) make most of the fan noise, changing their shape does the most to reduce the noise. The noise has nothing to do with the "motor parts" that reside in the blade tips in this design.
Third, the pressure generated by the fan is solely dependant on the fan design and has nothing to do with how the fan is powered.
Fourth, of course the torque is more effective at a larger radius, but this has nothing to do with efficiency.
Fifth, any increase in air flow has to do with the shape of the blades and the speed of the fan and can probably be improved a somewhat by blocking the hub a little.
Sixth, I do not see how the fan improves the efficiency of cooling anything. Increased air flow will cool anything better, according to how much horsepower do you want to put into your fan. And, it matters a whole lot where the parts to be cooled are in relation to the exit air stream, etc.etc.etc. Nothing but PR here.
this fan has already had some discussion on the various case/cooling forums:
amdmb
ars
Having torn a many pcâ(TM)s apart, to the risk of slicing my hands upon the un de burred sheet metal. I have noticed 1 common elements that contribute to fan failure.
Too much heat on the oil seal
Looking at this compared to a ordinary fan, it looks as though the bearings and oil seals are evenly dispersed over the surface area of the heat sink, where most common fans have the bearings and oil seals right in the center in the middle of rising heat. Iâ(TM)m not a thermodynamics expert but I can tell you from experience that I have been able to bring many a dead CPU fans back from the dead simply by peeling the sticker off in the center and dropping a dab of oil in there.
Anyways thatâ(TM)s my 2cents
For years the huge cooling fans like those on board train locomotives have used a neat trick to keep the noise down. Instead of placing the fan blades at equal angles from each other, they are offset by a small amount. This actually results in a lot MORE noise but it's all outside the human hearing range. The same trick works for small fans as well but no one ever seems to take advantage of it. You basically hear nothing but the motor. (By the way. Does anyone know if there is a manufacturer of these in existence? My computer could definitely use a fan upgrade.)
"Who is General Failure and why is he reading my disk?"
And do you want to explain how you came to the conclusion that a cpu based on .13 micron and a SOI process is going to need advanced cooling techniques?
I might spend as much as $1 more for this new fan design, but I wouldn't spend twice as much.
I'd spend twice as much if it'll last twice as long. Maybe three times as much if it'll cut the ambient noise level down by 10 decibels or more.
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
I emailed the manufacturers regarding the free tests. Here's what they said:
;) I wonder why?
Thank you very much for your high interests in Y.S. TECH's revolutionary new product: T.M.D. FAN (Tip-Magnetic Driving Fan).
After the announcement of the T.M.D. FAN, we have been receiving uncountable inquiries everyday to review the T.M.D. FAN, to obtain the T.M.D. FAN samples and to attain developing schedule. To deal with all of your inquiries and be fair to everyone, here is what Y.S. TECH would like you to follow. We appreciate for your cooperation in advance!
1. Please visit Y.S. TECH web site at http://www.ystech.com.tw to obtain the detailed information (including technical issues).
2. We hereby enclose some images (.jpg at 72 dpi) that you are very welcome to apply them to your web site's product review and news announcement.
3. After your post or announcement of the T.M.D. FAN in your web site, please inform us the links. Then we will deliver physical T.M.D. FAN samples (possibly with heatsink) for your test and review purpose. The samples will be delivered to you in the middle of April.
4. After your test on the T.M.D. FAN, you will be much appreciated, if you post the test results and comments in your web site. It doesn't matter the results or the comments are positive or negative. The general public needs the truth.
Here is the rough schedule for the dimensional development of the T.M.D.
FAN:
Now: 70x70x15mm is now available. It is targeted for Pentium 4 CPU cooler.
April: 70x70x15mm T.M.D. FAN will be shipped out to variable locations over the world.
May to June: 60x60x25mm, 80x80x25mm T.M. FAN will be released to the market. These two dimensions are targeted for AMD CPU cooler and case cooling.
Again, thank you very much for your interests in T.M.D. FAN!
Should you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact us. Y.S. TECH will reply to you as soon as possible.
Note the "uncountable enquiries..
I think their attitude about the reviews is very good. It's a shame more companies aren't like that.
--
Andy
Another one of those "too cool to be
useful" cooling fans.
Center area has minimum effect on air
transportation. Outside region of blade
has most effect on air transportation.
Too sad that blade diamater is redudced
because "motor" sits outside.
Heat from chip goes into heat sink. Heat
sink has very good thermal conductivity
(Alumininum or copper, much better than
transition region heat sink -> air). So
think of heat sink as an ideally stirred
container. Weak additional middle air
flow doesn't improve cooling. Reduced
outside air flow _does_ reduce cooling
performance.
What makes an effective cooling device?
* High surface heat sink with good thermal conductivity.
* High volume, turbulent of air flow over whole surface.
* Fancy design does move your money but doesn't move heat.
(air, that is.)
Which makes them ideal for your WinXP box.
--
The Cap is nigh. Time to get a fresh new account.
> Did you know the Apple 2 had NO FAN at all?
Neither does the Tandy 1000 RL I've got sitting over here. So what? They're both old and slow, and neither has the processor power to justify a fan.
This fan seems to have both advantages and disadvantages. The most obvious for me advantage is that its axis vibrates less -- force is applied to the edges of the fan, straightening it. That may help with the problem that often kills "classic" fans -- the bearing (that usually is a brass pipe attached by one end to the plastic base and a steel pin attached by the opposite end to the hub of the blades) wears out unevenly, what causes the fan's pin to roll in the pipe, and with precession causing further damage that, among other things, converts a cylindrical surface into a cone, making a bad problem even worse, causing more noise, vibration, squeezing out the lubricant and clogging of the bearing.
;-).
Another positive thing is that this design (but not the device itself) allows for relatively easy improvement -- even though the picture looks like the bearing is the same as I have described above, this can be converted into a "reversed" bearing design without the motor getting in the way -- a pin can be attached to the plastic base/grille at both ends, and a pipe (or ball bearings, or whatever) -- to the middle of the hub. Then the fan will be also symmetric and even less vulnerable to the vibrations. "Classic" fan design can be converted into this, however then the rotating pipe would push back already tiny coils and cores of the motor. With coils outside, and reduced vibrations in the first place this would be more efficient (and oh, btw, if some asshole will try to patent this, I would be happy to see him in court, with this comment as an evidence of the prior art
The disadvantages are also obvious. First, blades, even with heavy magnet ring on their ends, are still flexible and prone to deformation. This may affect the balance of the rotor in the long run -- "classic" fan has a smaller ring magnet in a sturdy plastic cup of the hub, and therefore is almost invulnerable to this (until the bearing wears out enough to shift the center -- but by then the fan would be dead already). Second, this, and plain need to accommodate heat expansion, precision of manufacturing, etc. increases the necessary gap between magnets and cores. That would require larger, stronger coils, but there isn't that much space available for them in the corners.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I agree, since the current fans work with magic.
one thing I noticed that was really smart about a little dell optiplex we have is the fan.. it has a 3" squirlcage fan.. like you have in most home forced-air heating/ac systems.. or range hoods. it's very quiet, and moves a signifigant ammount of air.. like someone posted earlier.. the blades in the center move slowly, and the blades at the edge move fast, so you don't get an major advantage to having the motor on the outside. with a squirlcage fan, all the blades are on the outside, moving at the same speed. now just combind that with variable speed cooling.. and things will be very good.
Don't I recall lots if not all of those early computers having an external AC/DC converter, either as a wall wart or as a box midway up the power cable? IOW, your primary source of heat was moved AWAY from the computer case, and since 6502s really aren't known for their heat problems, of course you wouldn't need a fan. The PC has a switching power supply because it was far more expandible than anything else out there at the time, and the power requirements needed to be more flexible. This was not limited to the IBM - my TI-994/A's external expansion box (circa 1979) had a little power supply in it (don't recall if it had a fan, I think it did) because again, I could put a variety of peripherals in there, and it needed to be able to run them all.
Yet, my base TI-994/A ran off of a wall wart.
Recall that until around the 486 DX/2 days, there (in general application) wasn't anything hot enough inside the PC case to warrant its own fan. The fan behind the power supply is/was always meant to cool the *power supply* anyway.
I interpret that question as "is it possible to cool by convection driven by the temperature differentials." Yes, provided:
1. No extreme hot spots -- like Pentiums. They are too small and make too much heat, so I don't think passive air cooling alone can handle it. Scale back your MHz, or add a liquid-filled heat spreader.
2. The case is designed for air flow, the cables are tied out of the way, and the customer can't get inside and f* it up.
3. The case a tower, and it is always operated right side up with the covers on and the vents clear. Techs have to know how long they can keep the power on while the box is open to work on it. A customer that lays something on the vent, or puts his tower on it's side is going to have trouble.
Yes, it is certainly possible to cool fairly high-powered electronic devices passively, but this device wouldn't be used the way PC's are.
He made more sense then you do. You: I thought of this concept a while back, even started modelling it in Simulink (part of Matlab).
Nice work, drawing pictures lends credibility. Nope. I'm a Mechanical Engineer. I've done some rudimentary fan designs (you know vector diagrams, work balance, that kind of thing), but I won't play a fan designer on TV or stomp reasonable people. Him: "First, the velocity of the blades near the hub are too slow to put work into the air and therefore the air tends to leak backwards near the hub. This is why putting the motor in the hub area does not degrade fan performance."
You: First of all, the hub is smaller, meaning the there is more air intake near the hub...anything which calls for a greater air debit at the top of the fan is good. The air will only 'leak back' if the air pressure under th fan is greater than on top, which doesn't happen until you hit high RPM's. What you will get is vortices under the fan near the hub, which is good...it means a lot of airflow over the die of the chip, which leads to cooling of the chip. Note that this happens under the fan, which is where you do want vortices.
He's right, again. If your fan does not give you any pressure increase, you have a poor difuser or a poor fan or both. There is zero motion at the axis. The best thing to do with that air is to redirect it outward towards your blades. If your hub does not do this, you might get some recirculation there that will do what your hub should have. Him again: "Second, while the fastest parts of the fan (the blade tips) make most of the fan noise, changing their shape does the most to reduce the noise. The noise has nothing to do with the "motor parts" that reside in the blade tips in this design."
You: The thing is, the tips of the blades are in the ring surrounding the fan...now the air first gets led through a bounding area before it gets spun by the fan...it goes from vertical to horizontal directly, like in any good pump, without having that airflow distorted by the boundary conditions created by the tips of the fan being near but not touching the side of the fan case. Vortices on top of the fan only make for a decrease in airintake which is bad for cooling.
Huh? What does that have to do with what he said about decreasing noise by changing blade shape? Any axial fan will create an axial vortex above it unless you put stator blades in the way. If you want to get rid of the blade tip vorticies you change their shape, or you could put a ring around them but that makes other problems. Him: "Third, the pressure generated by the fan is solely dependant on the fan design and has nothing to do with how the fan is powered."
You, again: But here the method of powering the fan has led to an improvement in fan design (more air intake due to higher area of the fanblades).
You are starting to repeat yourself, which would be OK if you were correct or even consistent. You know, he's right again. While you fail to actually contradict him, you do contradict yourself by not bothering to say anything about pressure differences that you don't understand very well. Him: "Fourth, of course the torque is more effective at a larger radius, but this has nothing to do with efficiency."
You: Thiuss hasd no bearing on the situation other than stating that the larger a fan is, the better it works...duh, we already knew that.
Ummm, that's not what he said, but it's nice to see that you have the spirit to be condesending. Can you explain why a larger fan works better for us? Is it because the ends may be turning faster? Isn't this why axial turbines are generally rows of blades mounted further away from the axis than they are long? Would they be more efficient with a large hole in the center? Him again: "Fifth, any increase in air flow has to do with the shape of the blades and the speed of the fan and can probably be improved a somewhat by blocking the hub a little."
You, sigh: No, that would only limit the area of air-intake, which is bad...you want a big area of intake, to get as much air down the fan as possible. Blocking the hub is a Bad Idea(tm)
Do you know any other tune than, "this thing rocks because it has a smaller hub"? I think I've alrady stated the purpose of the hub. Go figure. Him: "Sixth, I do not see how the fan improves the efficiency of cooling anything. Increased air flow will cool anything better, according to how much horsepower do you want to put into your fan. And, it matters a whole lot where the parts to be cooled are in relation to the exit air stream, etc.etc.etc."
You: Yeah, you got the idea...this new design improves airflow, which is good!
Same tune. You know what is good but not how to achieve it. He does. But wait, you have a conclusion: Not PR, just airflow...they increase the airintake (by having a smaller hub, which also means better cooling near the centre of the fan) while lowering vortices near the airintake (by having a seamless fancase-fan interface), thus creating better cooling
OK. Does anyone have any numbers around here? Like flow vrs current for various radiuses? Yes that would be useful, a repeatable experiment comparing various available designs. The data sheet is slashdotted. Perhaps you can CAD up some drawings of a test bench for us?
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.