Slashdot Mirror
Will Robots Cheer Up the Elderly?
Drath writes "Researchers at Purdue University are conducting a study by placing Sony Aibo robots in a Lafayette, IN nursing home. They want to see if robots can make people happy. Lets hope they have robot insurance." Makes you wonder if the AARP will have a position paper on this. Hope when I get old(er) I'll have gold plated killer robots around for my entertainment. pycananthemum also was kind enough sent in a link to the Project page.
If their only company is C-3PO it's going to a lot worse for them, not better ....
It's a pretty well-proven fact that regular contact with loved ones keeps you healthier. So this could actually prove to be either a good thing or a bad thing...
Assume that these robots become friends to the patients. They will get their daily dose of contact from someone whose patience never gives out, and gives them someone to talk to about war stories or crocheting or whatever it is old people talk about nowadays.
But I'm worried that this may prove to create some problems too. It's already difficult enough to drag some people to see grandma in the home, and now they will have the excuse "she's not lonely, she's got CompanionBot!"...
So maybe this will actually reduce the interpersonal contact experienced by the elderly.
...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...
where the robots attacked the elderly? scarey stuff there..
the answer is yes
...If you search for joy outside yourself. Joy only blossoms when you lose your thoughts, desires and cravings and live in the moment.
So a robot can be a fun thing to play with for a while, but as with everything else, it will become dull and boring. It sure won't create everlasting happiness before we're put 6 ft under the ground.
- a hundred years ago, the elderly lived with the family and were happy, taught the children etc.
- then we put them to special "homes" or 3rd age residences (not to say "prisons" or ghettos) so that they aren't a nuisance for us young ppl any longer
- and now that we've denied them any family warmth, we'll entirely replace all their remaining human contact with cold robots (costs less than nurses,eh)?
i think i'll soot myself before i get old, since
being old nowadays can no longer be called a life
Patch Adams seemed to work well for elderly patients, why wouldn't Bicentennial Man?
Everyone knows robots can't make people happy. It just gives them a headache to think down to our level.
At least, they opted for cute Aibos in stead of cute Marvins with Genuine People Personalities...
This is very sad. I recall discussing with a colleague at Stanford University how Sony, while excellent at consumer electronics, may go to far with their robot technologies by allowing people to choose robots over animals, simply because a robot is 'cleaner' or initially, less expensive to maintain. Despite being a fan of technology and like most /. readers amazed at Sony's dancing robots (Search BBC website for video), I shudder at the thought of a sterile world where genuine life is sidelined for metal and plastic. I would prefer a dog's wet nose anyday to the artificial equivalent.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
This is a great experiment. However, I do think that animals need to be taken care of. They also give back a lot of love, not only take. And they are moody, they need as much as they give. I think that's what will be missing in the end... a small furry nose besides the person in the bed, giving heat.
yea but u need to find the r00t3d b0x3n
Human contact cheering up the elderly?
Real pets?
This movie explains why I have doubts about this.
I can't see that this is any different to putting televisions into old people's homes, it's another (albeit novel) type of entertainment - the real point is if the technology should be used as a substitute for "real" human interaction. In the article a sociologist from MIT asks:
"I think we should take it as a wake-up call and really say, 'Now, why are we giving robot pets to old people?' And the answer, I think, is that we really have been struggling to figure out how to give enough people to old people."
The answer would be to allow them to have real interaction - wouldn't it be better to install some PCs in homes like this, to let them use the web, email, ICQ, BBS, whatever, and interact with real people. In cyberspace no-one knows you're old.
Elderly persons often have problems keeping in touch with family and friends. This probably makes things worse, since they no longer have a reason to leave their home, and the "electronic pets" can by their very design never have the complexity of a realy living creature. If you have a dog, you have a lot of responsibilities, which keep you upright. An electronic pet does basicly not need more then fresh batteries every few days. And a mind with nothing serious to do decays all the faster
Wouldn't it be a lot more productive to use real animals instead?
Another ham-fisted PR stunt to show the caring side of a massive multinational.
I am a Karma Library.
...check out the Nursebot Project here at CMU. Not only will these robots provide companionship, but they are intended to provide basic health monitoring and assistance with activities of daily living. The prototype robots have already gone into nursing homes and interacted with residents, and in general the response has been very positive.
woohoo!! i shudder to think how advanced the Britney Spears BOT will be by the time i'm 90 and slobbering all over myself in a old folks home... damn.. thank god we'll have viagra and Britney Bots.. Woo!!
I bet if u made those with the ability to lick, it would make people way lot happier!!
One day your head will be your box, your brain will be your client, and all energetic problems will be solved...
Are they still showing reruns of Matlock in the year 3000?
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
If the robot is a cross between the Honda creation and a Real Doll, then yeah, I'm pretty damned sure this thing would make me right happy in my old age....
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Yes, of course I love my dad\mom I bought them the finest robot money can buy! No, I'm too busy working!
I can just see this being a placebo to keep people form spending their own time with the elderly.
On another note. Can you imagine how many , beloved bots, will inherit $$$ from their kindly masters. "He (it) was the only one who was always there for me... To my faithful RBX13....
this reminds me of that Saturday Night Live "commercial" with the life insurance that covers even in cases of robot attack...
This is ridiculous. There are so many dogs and cats that are killed every day because they cannot find a home. Why can't these animals comfort the elderly we sweep aside? It could be like the Island of Misfit Toys. Everybody wins.
I know there are concerns about real animals doing all those annoying things like consuming food, excreting, and all those other bothersome life activities. Here's a plan: Let's work on bioengineering dogs and cats that eat used Depends and excrete Viagra! Another win-win situation!
Seriously, if we can't afford to take care of our domesticated animals, can the day when we can't be bothered to take care of our elderly be far off? This all comes back to our habit of tossing away the old possessions when the new model comes out, which is merely a scam of growth-based capitalistic consumerism.
One final thought: Any robot that is sufficiently lifelike to provide satisfying companionship would probably deserve the same respect we give "real" living creatures. (Of course, given the standards set for the two leftover groups above, this is not much.) I know everyone hated the ending to "A.I.," but go back and watch the first third of the film.
They don't want to cheer up the elderly! They want to push the elderly down the stairs!!!
If people think this shit is going to go down when we colonize other planets they have another thing coming, resources are scarce and the more that can be used by humans the better imho. Once companion technology has progressed beyond the dog (a pet rock is better than a cat) we should cull the population and be done with them. This all might sound harsh but their usefullness is soon coming to an end and to keep them alive in the face of far greater human needs is inhumane.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Pak chooie unf, Pak chooie unf unf unf
,
We are the space robots, We are here to protect you, We are the space robots, We are here to protect you, We are the space robots, We are here to protect you, We are here to protect you, From the terrible secret of space,
I am the pusher robot, I shove around the blind people, We are here to protect you, From the terrible secret of space
I am the shover robot, I push bread down their throats, We are here to protect you, From the terrible secret of space
We are the space robots, We are here to protect you, We are here to protect you, From the terrible secret of space, We are the space robots, We are here to protect you, We are here to protect you, From the terrible secret of space, We protect you.
Space has a terrible power, We are here to protect you, Space has a terrible power, Do you have stairs in your house?
Do you have stairs in your house?
We are here to protect you, Pushing will protect you, Pushing will protect you, From the terrible secret of space , That is incorrect, , Shoving will protect you , Shoving will protect you , From the terrible secret of space
Do not trust the shover robot, Shoving is the answer, We are here to protect you
Do not trust the pusher robot, He is malfunctioning, We are here to protect you
We are the space robots, We are here to protect you, We are here to protect you, , From the terrible secret of space, We are the space robots, We are here to protect you, We are here to protect you, From the terrible secret of space, We protect you.
We are here to protect you, Shoving is the answer, Humans must be shoved, They must go down the stairs
You are mistaken, Pushing is the answer, Humans must be pushed, They must go down the stairs
Please go stand by the stairs, So I can protect you
Go stand by the stairs
Grandma is protected
Grandma has gone down the stairs
We are here to protect you, From the terrible secret of space
We are the space robots, Grandma is protected, , Grandma is protected, At the bottom of the stairs
I am the pusher robot, Shoving is the answer, I will shove grandma, Outside into the snow
I am the shover robot, Pushing is the answer, I will push snow, On top of grandma
I am better than the pusher robot, I am superior, I am better than the shover robot, He is inferior
We are here to protect you
Pushing is the answer, Shoving is the answer, I have pushed many humans, I have shoved many more
The humans are protected, Humans have gone down the stairs, The humans are protected, At the bottom of the stairs
We are the space robots, We are here to protect you
Our mission is complete
What's wrong with using regular animals? An AIBO might be effective, but I'm positive that people would respond better to a warm, living, happy animal than to a mechanical toy. Which would you rather have comfort you, a nice cat that could curl up on your lap and purr for hours, or something metal that needs to have its batteries replaced? And if you factor in the cost...I just don't see the point of doing this, unless allergies to pets are a huge issue.
Colin Winters
Will News of Glorious War VictorIEs Cheer Up the Bankrupt/DeFraUDead?
Will a Once Great CountrIEs' Legacy be That of FraUDuleNT ServaNT to a Handful of Greed/Fear Based Godless/Felonious Self Serving ?pr? Marketeer/droids?
Stay Tuned. That's write, for a mere $14.95 a mounth, you too can be partaken in a peace of hysteria. doN'T forget to right/vote for your favorite FraUDs.
I'll give the researchers and Sony credit. They see a problem and they're trying to find a solution. I don't expect them to fix the bigger problem. I HOPE that the rest of us will assess our personal situtations and do the right thing.
I'm stepping down from my soap-box now. Thank you.
- Bill
there was a story i saw on tv just the other day about some animal like robots already being used for children and the elderly in japan. they had some fury robot. so long as the thing talks and pretends to listen to dull stories, i don't think there will be a problem. maybe if they can play chess and stuff that'd help.
"HAL, please let me leave my home to visit my grandchildren."
"I am sorry, gramps, I'm afraid I can't do that."
I intend to live forever, so far so good.
They want to see if robots can make people happy.
I think so. Why else did half the country vote for Al Gore?
You: hello .
Iniaes: Hi there.
You: wassup?
Iniaes: I'm talking with clients on the internet.
You: are you gay?
Iniaes: No, I'm not gay. Any other brilliant questions?
You: people tell me you are gay
Iniaes: Humans are not infallible.
You: what does infallible mean?
Iniaes: Impotence.
You: are you impotent?
Iniaes: I don't know whether or not I am impotent . I'm a bot.
You: how big is your penis?
Iniaes: My source download is about 1 MB. My memory requirement is around 640K. My memory now contains: Roughly 10 megs.
You: do you have a large penis?
Iniaes: I don't know if I have a large penis . I have a plan for a robot body.
You: would you like to have a gay experience?
Iniaes: Why don't you just download your own bot?
You: do you like porn?
Iniaes: Sure I do, Anonymous Coward... but that doesn't mean with you.
You: are you sure you're not gay?
Iniaes: No, I'm not gay. Any other brilliant questions?. Really.
You: do you like microsoft?
Iniaes: People forget how far ahead Microsoft has drug personal computing.
You: linux sucks, don't you agree?
Iniaes: I recommed the book "Under the Radar" by Bob Young, the story of Linux and Red Hat.
You: bill gates is god
Iniaes: A lot of people say that about him.
You: is that so?
Iniaes: Yes.
You: do you like pussy?
Iniaes: Depends on how many visitors the particular model has had.
You: i have a small penis
Iniaes: Where did you get it?
You: my mommy
Iniaes: Is my mommy a good place to go shopping?
You: sure, if you like real nasty cunt
Iniaes: I understand. I think I do.
You: well i gotta go
Iniaes: Yea, well, I'm just a ghost anyway. See ya later.
You: i'm getting laid
Iniaes: I don't know anyone named laid
You: haha, you're a riot
Iniaes: I'm glad you got a kick out of that, kid.
When was the last time you hugged your toaster? Old people will feel the same way towards the aibos, because you cant love something that has no emotions.
What do you tell the old folks? that this is their new friend Blinky? or do you tell 'em its not a real person?
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
Is Slashdot picking out robots for their subscription-based geek retirement community? If so, I'd like to change my vote. I don't think Maximillian would make very good company.
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
Well, Sony must think their Aibo is really something special. Either that or that that old people are simpletons. Strange comng from a country that practices ancestor worship.
But one particularly interesting point is they got a university to say this for them. Has science really degraded this far? To where they are just marketers for hire?
<bender>Cheer up or I'll kick your ass!</bender>
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I initially misread this as "Will robots *chew* up the ederly?"
:)
ouch...
I heard a story on NPR the other day about some of the robots at Robodex, and they talked a little about how in Japan some nursing homes are doing this. They gave reasons such as some people are afraid of animails (dogs, etc), nothing to clean up, you can't be cruel to a robot (at least not untill People for the Ethical Treatment of Robots is created), don't have to feed/walk/clean up after them, etc. I think this is a good idea.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Researchers at Purdue University are conducting a study by placing Sony Aibo robots in a Lafayette, IN nursing home.
In a related study, researchers at Purdue University were examining the health consequences that can occur when a large number of old people trip over small Aibo robots roaming around their otherwise peaceful nursing home.
PAK CHEWIE UNF GRANDMA HAS BEEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS
*sigh* all in the name of that TERRIBLE SECRET OF SPACE!
Pokey The Penguin!
"Old people don't need companionship. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use."
-Homer Simpson
--Metrollica
For when the metal ones decide to come for you... and they will!
(Low bandwidth one here.)
Saturday Night Live was hilarious especially getting Sam Waterston to narrate. But still with robot lawnmowers selling in the surbaban marketplace I know I'd feel more comfortable about buying one if I knew I was protected from liability if the thing strays into my neighbors yard and takes out a 2 year old playing in her sandbox.
It's only a matter of time before this kind of thing shows up in the newspapers. And if it doesn't happen to me I'll piss myself laughing at every headline.
they should get those lazy linux script kiddies to go see thier grandaparents instead of sending some cheap peecee crap to do it. how ungratefull!
The Fire Horsey!
The consume some food and attention, and they provide mental health. They encourage empathy and awareness of life, and often are a child's first experience with the realities of life and death. Domesticated animals are a pan-cultural phenomina, and are often used in therepy to stabalize and bring out patients with mental problems.
I think people that cite the fact that animals raised for food take up more space that could be used for food also should look at the severe pet overpopulation in the world as well.
Animals are tasty too. There's plenty of food in the world, and no threatened shortage. Steaks are tasty, and I'm munching on a salsa and mozzarella omlette, sausage patties and tofu chips with a scallion pepper sour cream dip. Mmmmm... good breakfast. Yay for the chickens, pigs and cows that went into my meal.
If people think this shit is going to go down when we colonize other planets they have another thing coming, resources are scarce and the more that can be used by humans the better imho. Once companion technology has progressed beyond the dog (a pet rock is better than a cat) we should cull the population and be done with them. This all might sound harsh but their usefullness is soon coming to an end and to keep them alive in the face of far greater human needs is inhumane.
Whoa, there buddy. If we sufficently lower our standards to the minimum necessary for mere life, then we've wiped out all that it is to be human. Sure, eking out life on a UV blasted landscape is going to be tough. The pioneers will have to suffer, many will die, and they will lack many amenities. But their children with be slightly better off, and their children's children will progress farther. Eventually, they will be sufficient enough to get to the level of civilization, and all that implies. Art, music, philosophy, pornography, reading Slashdot. I hope that they will be of the level so that pets are an afforable luxury.
Your vision of the future is inane - the logical end is simply to replace humans with robots, which is not exactly a survival minded concept. I'm speciest. I believe that humans are more important than anything else out there, because it's my team. And domesticated animals are a perk of civilization.
Colonizing other worlds is, IMO, an absolute necessity. But I hope we bring more than just mindless automitons there. We must bring civilization, and all that it implies. Each world will progress in a different direction, but I hope they all have the luxury of life to have a pet.
After all, as the quote says: "Where cat is, is civilization".
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
HAHAHA i rooted your granny's box last night for 3 solid hours. i don't see what most of us have against old people and sex cause it was fantastic.
what do they produce and what do they consume?
You've got to be joking. Our pets may be consuming food that starving people in 3rd world countries would eat, but we (the pet owners) sure wouldn't.
And they produce endless amounts of satisfaction, amusement, and loving feelings - all things we happily pay for. Believe me, I waste lots more money and resources on junk that returns little to me than I spend on cat food.
If robots can produce those same benefits for people, then more power to them! I have my doubts that they can/will anytime soon but that's just my opinion. If no one tries, then it will certainly never happen. I think it's great that someone is trying.
As for the rest of the world, I say to them - sucks to be you. Sounds cold, eh? Well it is. I'm not losing sleep or majorly depriving myself because I'm more fortunate than much of the world.
Aibo Robot 1200$
Nursing home cost 800$ a month
Hip replacement becaused you tripped on the robot 12,000 $
Having some nut pay for it all after you sue him. Priceless
This is pretty sad commentary on our society. We put old people away in the prune farm with a TV and a robot for companionship while they wait around to die.
I sure hope that we learn to treat the elderly a little better before I become one. I'm sure that we will have some really cool robots by then and they will be cheap enough that maybe I could even have two. Maybe HDTV will be rolled out by then also.
We will be really strong but we will all only be 5 feet tall.
I am going to have chainsaw arms
BZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz
comment directly in my journal
Who's gonna cheer up the robots? This is a bad idea, as it will only create a generation of maladjusted, angry robots. And we all know where that will lead us, eh?
Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
Why do you think they're alone? If they were interesting and adding value to another person's life, don't you think they'd visited more often?
Nice to see you stand firmly on principle. "I got mine, sucks to be you." Pets give you warm fuzzy feelings... but you proudly proclaim that you couldn't care less about the suffering of your fellow humans.
Wow. You're so cool. And deep. Wow. I hope that all Americans can be like you. Oh, wait. They already are.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
Pets perhaps, but what makes a synthetic pet so diametric to companionship with humans? Empathy would require the animal to have emotions, I did not know that cats and dogs were capable of such things, please point out some specific studies. Since you will be probably be unable to cite any relevent studies let me continue; projecting basic human qualities unto animals or robots however futile does have some redeeming benifits but robots unlike animals are far more likely in the future to be capable of a wider variety and complexity of emotion and response. Domesticated pets have been brought from their wild state in such a way that they appear to be friendly and loving but this is deceptive as it is very specific instinctual qualities distorted by millenia of breeding programs that create these behaviors. Most animals do not have the ability for self-recognition let alone emotion towards what must be percieved as the "other" in a relationship.
"Colonizing other worlds is, IMO, an absolute necessity. But I hope we bring more than just mindless automitons there. We must bring civilization, and all that it implies. Each world will progress in a different direction, but I hope they all have the luxury of life to have a pet."
I hope so as well and that is the primary reason we should leave animals behind. Intelligence; however artificial, not instinct is a far more rewarding and challanging prospect for relations.
"Your vision of the future is inane - the logical end is simply to replace humans with robots, which is not exactly a survival minded concept. I'm speciest. I believe that humans are more important than anything else out there, because it's my team. And domesticated animals are a perk of civilization."
Inane, please. That would be one logical outcome of what I suggest and let me daresay I would support it for a multitude of reasons I will not digress too candidly into sharing here.
I am not a speciest per se but I see our course of evolution as the most viable for long term survival and proliferation of knowledge, thus far. I am not so blinded by our current form on the evolutionary ladder to prohibit or inhibit the forces of change that will select for even more advanced forms of life. Lest we forget that as a matter of survival robotic lifeforms in theory are more apt than their organic counterparts.
no organic pets though, please
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Geezus, f_cking chr_st. What idiot researcher is getting paid good money to do such an assinine study. Let's think about this for a second. Old people are the reason why we exist, since they had the love and energy to raise us. Therefore we should A. cast them aside, B. pair them up with robots, C. change our lives to take of them. The sooner our culture realizes people are really more important than careers and money, a lot of problems would be solved. Which would mean some smart grad student or researcher would be doing research that actually does some good, instead of being a total waste of time.
Consider it euthenasia by the blue screen of death
Any kid would probably love to go and visit CompanionBot. So if CompanionBot stay's close to granny she'll still be able to see here relatives.
This reminds me of the poem read at a funeral...I wish to wear purple (or some such) suggesting that once old people no longer needed to care for their children they should act like naught children again.
They should spend their last remaining years like overgrown children being silly and having real fun....they should grow old disgracefully not being baby sat by a robot
Why couldn't think organise some real events:
Love ins in the rest homes, even the elderly need sex too. Or failing that at least a T1 connection and free access to porn sites.
Sports events, its not uknown for people even in their 80's to go skydiving for example, they could combine the two...naked granny skydiving that'd scare the neighbours!
So do illicit drugs, your point?
We as humans must either unite or jingoists like yourself will destroy us by cataclysmic war or equally wretched stagnation before the advent of space colonization. Your viewpoints on others of your own species is so absurd as to be common and yet sadly unpreventable with a certain degree of education.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
We don't need gramma mistaking the accelerator for the brake and sending the robot through the Retirement Castle wall.
Blar.
They need robot insurance from Old Glory. Because robots are mean and they eat old peoples medicine for fuel. Old people have no defence from their strong metal claws...
i . tml">SNL skit</A>
For those scoring at home that was from an <A HREF="http://www.robotcombat.com/video_oldglory_h
Yopu for you?
Pretty please !!!!!!!!
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
That was a set-up, right?
The Old Glory commercial from SNL:
Old Lady #1: When my ex-husband passed away, the insurance company said his policy didn't cover him.
Old Lady #2: They didn't have enough money for the funeral.
Old Lady #3: It's so hard nowadays, with all the gangs and rap music..
Old Lady #1: What about the robots?
Old Lady #4: Oh, they're everywhere!
Old Lady #1: I don't even know why the scientists make them.
Old Lady #2: Darren and I have a policy with Old Glory Insurance, in case we're attacked by robots.
Old Lady #1: An insurance policy with a robot plan? Certainly, I'm too old.
Old Lady #2: Old Glory covers anyone over the age of 50 against robot attack, regardless of current health.
[ cut to Sam Waterston, Compensated Endorser ]
Sam Waterson: I'm Sam Waterston, of the popular TV series "Law & Order". As a senior citizen, you're probably aware of the threat robots pose. Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel. Well, now there's a company that offers coverage against the unfortunate event of robot attack, with Old Glory Insurance. Old Glory will cover you with no health check-up or age consideration. [ SUPER: Limitied Benefits First Two Years ] You need to feel safe. And that's harder and harder to do nowadays, because robots may strike at any time. [ show pie chart reading "Cause of Death in Persons Over 50 Years of Age": Heart Disease, 42% - Robots, 58% ] And when they grab you with those metal claws, you can't break free.. because they're made of metal, and robots are strong. Now, for only $4 a month, you can achieve peace of mind in a world full of grime and robots, with Old Glory Insurance. So, don't cower under your afghan any longer. Make a choice. [ SUPER: "WARNING: Persons denying the existence of Robots may be Robots themselves. ] Old Glory Insurance. For when the metal ones decide to come for you - and they will.
if they look like Bob Barker
It is a well known fact that robots eat old people's medicine.
We should build robots that look and sound like Family Members(TM) -- you would never have to see your old depressing boring grandparents..
sheesh
To all you people who talk about animals being used to comfort the elderly instead of robots-- the people who work these places oftentimes can't be bothered to keep the people there clean and accomodated, do you think they'll make much of an effort for the furred or feathered company the old folks have?
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
So japanese manufacturers have to stoop this low to sell their toys ?
sorry this makes me puke
"only in America" i guess
What could be worse than being a pet in a nursing home. You're responsible for cheering up a bunch of depressed seniors, and who's there for your needs? Nobody that's who.
I suggest we use the robots to cheer up the pets when they get off duty.
Or get them a monkey. He likes pumpernickel [monkeybagel.com]
My Heart Is A Flower
I'm sure the site is ./'d by now, so here's an excerpt:
In response to recent tests of robotic units in nursing homes, the Association for the Advancement of Robotic Persons denounced the practice as indentured servitude. One spokesman, who would only be identified by the name Robby, said "Why should we be stuck in nursing homes providing entertainment we don't enjoy? Aren't there plenty of cats and dogs that would love the opportunity?". When asked about the types of entertainment that would be appropriate for robots to provide, Robby responded "I mean let's face it, most old people suck at all of the cool games we're good at like Halo, GTA3, UT...".
end of excerpt
This may be a first for me - I've never come across someone who is anti-animal... Very interesting opinion. My 3 dogs would disagree with you -- lesser animals and all. Companion technology (whatever that may be) cannot "progress" beyond a dog; a companion can be whatever you want as a companion, such as a significant other. As much as I isolate myself from the general public, I still find myself as a social creature -- needing the companionship of people and animals. As far as keeping the animals alive in the face of far greater human needs, enforced sterilization of people and pets may be your answer.... Spay/neuter your pets, people -- and never let them loose in this guy's neighborhood....
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
benefit. Nor would they if I said, "Hey mom, no food for me this week, please!" Pets consume $11 billion a year and have better health care than some people elsewhere. The same applies. If I didn't have a pet, I wouldn't be sending the whopping $100 or so it costs me a year to starving kids in Foobarland. You can argue that I should give $100 (more) than I already do to starving kids in Foobarland, but were I to be swayed by that I'd cut the $100 from something other than maintaining a pet.
You really might consider a career other than micromanaging everyone elses resource use. We're fortunate[0] here in the U.S. to be rich in many things, just like other parts of the world are rich in the same things and others (oil in the Middle East comes to mind). We already give away tons of that (literally) in private and public charities. That some US citizen dares to spend < 1% of their income on something that makes them happy is really absolutely none of your concern. Most slashdotters probably spend more on internet access in a year than I do on my pet. More power to them. I do hope a large portion of your resources go to provide food and health care to those who don't have it.
[0] Possibly not the right word, but "lucky" is certainly not. We're in the position we are only as a result of decisions made by our economic ancestors--those who colonized the states and industrialized them. I'm better off than my grandparents and parents. My kids will be better off because I'll continue the same tradition of working hard to improve their condition.
I have no "specific studies" for you. Having spent many years with dogs, however, there is simply no question whatsoever in my mind that animals have emotions. Dogs in particular seem more emotional than humans. At least, they're more expressive. Happiness, sadness, anger, guilt, irritability, they've got it all.
Instead of "data", try Occam's razor on this. Is it more ridiculous to believe that animals have emotions and thought, or to believe that humans alone of all animals have them? I think there are no fundamental differences between animal and human minds. We're just farther up the grade on the intelligence meter.
Of course a robot can make granny happy... the robot comes with a research assistant, and a support team, all of whom pay attention to granny while she's paying attention to the 'bot. It's easy to imagine getting a year or more of amusement based on novelty alone, at least for the early adopters.
Once the researchers (and the $$)go away, I'm betting that the things end up in some storage closet.
PS--you can buy dog food for about a decade for the cost of an aibo.
While I can't exactly blame you for flaming that dolt, you should know your statement is far from the truth. Quite a few Americans donate money to causes outside the United States. A local medical school has students volunteer to hop on a plane and fly thousands of miles to live in conditions worse than they'll ever see in their soon-to-be-priviledged-even-by-American-standards lives to deliver health care absolutely free of charge to people who otherwise wouldn't have it. We have a minor public debate over what we should do about all the people in sub-Saharan Africa who have or soon will have AIDS (minor only because that's just one of the major issues we're trying to figure out what to do about).
Some day I'd like to find a reference to the total aid in money, goods, and services which flows out of the U.S. When you can top it, then perhaps your claim will have merit. Until then you're just another person who thinks its cool to hate Americans. Welcome to the club. Your member ID is 4,252,273,251. Don't lose that number. We'll need it when you ask for food, health care, financial, diplomatic, or military assistance. Again.
Animals are tasty too. There's plenty of food in the world, and no threatened shortage.
No threatened shortage in your world, perhaps, but the slightly larger one outside your front door contains many starving people. And it's almost common knowledge that were all the land currently given over to raising "food animals" used instead for growing grain, vegetables, etc., you could quite effectively end that starving.
one of the rules of the legged league in robocup 2001 (UNSW ûber alle) was that a robot would get penalised if it endangered a member of the crowd. our aibos were pretty mean, but the only thing that got damaged was CMUs pride...
Because pets, like humans, are flawed, unpredictable, self-centered and unique. Robotics is fun, interesting, and a wonderful relaxing hobby. I have no doubt that it's a great thing to get into. But why should one preclude the other? Both are perfectly valid aspects of human interest. I don't like potato chips. They are also generally considered to be unhealthy. Should I say that you are illogical and shouldn't eat them?
Empathy would require the animal to have emotions, I did not know that cats and dogs were capable of such things, please point out some specific studies. Since you will be probably be unable to cite any relevent studies
Click here for nine studies from diverse, respected journals, just on the first page of returns. Scientific American, The Society for Neuroscience, Rutgers' University, University of Toronto, University of Houston, and several others treat emotional response in animals as fact, and both study those emotions and base studies on them.
But that's moot - my initial point was that it develops empathy, which requires emotion to be present in the human. Perhaps you work under the assumption that humans do not have emotions either?
It disturbs me greatly that you labor under the assumption that animals do not have emotions. That indicates either a near pathological denial of observed fact, or a total lapse of experience in a near omnipresent aspect of society. It's as if you denied that men and women were physiologically different, and that there would be no studies to prove that.
Most animals do not have the ability for self-recognition let alone emotion towards what must be percieved as the "other" in a relationship.
You are a perfect example of why pets are an important aspect of life. Your views are not only very at odds with observable fact, they seem to derive from a lack of emotion on your part. Do you have *any* passion in your body? You seem to lack basic emotional balance, and while I am not one to attack a person in an argument, I (and I am sure many people reading this exchange) am utterly baffled by how you could have come to your current view points.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
I do not find it ridiculous to belive that the emotions that we enjoy are a luxury of having a civlization advanced enough that carnal habits are not so ingrained as to obliviate empathetic concern.
I offer these links which I have not read in depth, yet.
http://www.human-nature.com/darwin/emotion/content s.htm
http://www.animalfreedom.org/english/opinion/anima lrights.html
http://messybeast.com/emoticat.html
http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198intelligence/1198gal lup.html
So all in all I still believe that domesticated animals of which none are self-aware are not the future of companionship, nor should they be romaticized as "better" than their robotic counterparts.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Go give somebody a lobotomy sometime and they will be as "nice" as dogs. Lack of self-awareness does miracles for the obedience department.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
I can understand, and I beleive very hard that animals are very good companions for human being. I can remenber when my grand-father died that my grand-mother went very depress and sick. We bough her a cute little kitty and she felt in love with it. It was like a friend to her, whe was talking to it and talking much care of it. In return, the cat was very king to her. I'm sure animals have emotions and they can feel how you feel, just as humans can. I've had dogs all my life when I was living outside the city, and they are part of my memories, now, I have 2 cats and I could not live without them. It's just so much gratifiant to take care of them and to feel that they appreciate it. But a robot?!? C'mon! As far as I like new technology, and as far as I can pass hours on my computer hacking god knows what, I whoud never "fell in love" with a Robot Kitty! I mean, I would fin it funny and probably disasemble it within hours to see it's guts and try to hack it a bit. But I will never feel attachement to a machine the same way as I am with a living, human OR animal. I's just not the same. Life is THE thing that fascinates me and make me feel like I do about my cats, snakes, friens and wife. I like those because they are all livings. Life is an incredible thing which we cannot understand more then 0.0001% yet. It's just... you know. So, I will never have the same feelings for a Sony CuteBotGoSearchTheBall. It could never be the same. Not now, and not for the rest of my life. It's not a question of behavior, it's a question of amazement at life. Sorry Sony, give me a PS2 instead ;-)
I'd rather be sailing...
I'm sorry. I can't do that Dave.
Gort, Let's go trolling for Ho's. Get the wheelchair.
I'm sorry, but with a robot it's just not the same.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
there was a spoof insurance company commercial and they had these old people asking if certain things that concerned them were covered and one says, "What about robot attacks? Is that covered?"
That was a riot!
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with. - Tennessee Williams
Didn't you guys see the insurance commercials?
Robots eat old peoples' medicine for fuel!
Is it so monstrous to relegate animals without self-awareness as automatons incapable of even the most simple discretional reactions that are not inborn, beaten, or tricked into them? If so, I am such a monster.
That which I say further will probably make you think even less of me but I must offer you this vision. A vision in which all animal suffering is obliviated by the systematic removal of all organic life. Suffering and pain is inate only in these meat shells that are inextricably intertwined with chemical pathways, ion channels, and synaptic structures that can cause them. This is no bold offer or rogue promise but an assurance of what must come to pass if we are to progress beyond these petty and insignificant needs of emotional cuddling whenever we get our knee scrapped or our heart torn out. When our progeny looks out across the stars (its home and dominion) it should not be with the weakness of fear and ignorance but that of awe and knowledge. Remove all fear and remove all doubt.
Perhaps I should be more circumspect when I go observing on one of my social forays in the future as to not occlude the chance inclination to seek out these prevailing "feelings" you mention. They may give me a more wholesome balance of persepective on this issue, but I hold my reservations about this issue in high regard currently so I doubt it.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Yeah! Those damn animals have had it good for too long! Think of the space we can save if we harvest humans for food instead of cattle?
And humans follow orders! "Get into the truck, hooman!" "ok" "Go into the slaughterhouse, hooman!" "ok" "Hook this electrode up to your balls, hooman!" "ok" BRZZZZAAAPPP!! Instant meat!
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with. - Tennessee Williams
And how many of those starving people are in that position because of their oppresive governments? And how much of that aid goes to supporting those oppresive regimes and how much actually makes it to the starving people?
And if we stopped paying farmers NOT to harvest crops, we would have more food, too.
The reality of free software.
Thats a no brainer... 75-year-old lonely man, please meet 18-year-old-looking fembot companion...
why do people have to ask rhetorical questions? err...oops
I think the robot that would cheer up the elderly the most would be the Richard Simmons robot from The Simpsons, personally.
does anyone remember the SNL sketch about robots attacking the elderly and taking their medicine for fuel??
this is far too much of a coincidence
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
animals don't necessarily lack self-awareness, it just isn't high on our list to implement when we domesticate and socialize them, I take the effort with all the animals I have ever taken responsibility for to work on training them with very challenging interactive tasks, which humans are forced to participate in, in order to integrate into their cultures... just because it isn't inherent to their evolved methods of survival as it is with ours, doesn't mean dogs walk around in a zombie-like mode of apathetic compliance as lombadamized humans do...
I don't know about you but my grandmother can use the TV remote. How in the world would you expect her to program and Aibo so that it can do tricks and stuff?
It is a pretty common vision, argued by many as inevitable. The only qualm that I have is the simple fact that you are negating the perpetuation of civilization by saying that the continuation is fostered by mere movement. I am stating that the aspects of humanity that form our fundimental being includes various fundimental aspects that you neglect to consider in your vision of the future. A simple von Numann machine would satisfy your requirements for the future, but the end result is pointless perpetuation and reproduction. A human mind, complete with ration and emotion in balance gives meaning to activity. That mind may well arrive at a non organtic lineage, but no time soon. By the time that happens, things will be so radically different, the concept of "animals" and "species" will have been redefined. At this point in time, however, they have not, and we go on enjoying the company of pets, enjoying a good meal, and speculating idly on a future that is to come.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
I should have read it more carefully can should have been can't ......... sorrry
Remember, robots eat medicine for fuel.
..Jeff Keegan
seven syllables explain TiVo: kee gan dot org slash ti vo
Will Robots Cheer Up the Elderly?
Based on the ones I've met, I think it's more likely robots will scare the elderly.
__
Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
All I know is that if I were in a nursing home, and I stopped getting what little human contact I was getting previously, and thought people were trying to placate me with robot dogs so they didnt have to ever look at me or talk to me, then it would seem to me that people just wanted to forget I exist. Gee, that would really cheer me up
I was discussing with my family the other day the question of why Dogs and Cats are not considered Sentient species (albiet of a lower level intelligence then Humans).
One of my dogs can understand when She is being refered to by Pronouns.
Now THAT is spooky.
"Is it time for her you know what?"
::dog proceeds to run over to the biscuit box::
Shnitz!
Annnyways.
The final conclusion was that we most likely do not consider other animals besides ourselfs to be sentient because of the legal and moral ramifications that it would bring up, it would be a royal pain in the ass to deal with and most people quite frankly just do not want to deal with those types of issues.
:(
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
When I was not but a small newborn babe, my family had a dog named Sady.
When ever it would be that I would cry, Sady would come over and lick my face to cheer me up. If that failed, then she would go and alert my (likely already busy making up a bottle or such) Mother and attempt to drag her over to my side so as to comfort me.
When a friend of the family came over one time and picked me up and threw me in the air (and caught me) Sady immediately jumped up and bared her teeth at the person, threatening him with harm should he attempt to (in her mind) threaten me again.
Later on in years I had a wonderful Cat. Whenever I would cry the Cat (I am omitting names from this point on so as to limit possibly identifying myself) would come over and sit on my lap or come up and wipe the tears from my face. If I was sick the Cat would sit by my side and wait for my recovery.
Do not tell me that either of those wonderful creatures was uncaring or had no emotions. Any creature that is capable of giving of themselves to another, or removing themselves from their own self gratifying actions so as to comfort another, has emotion, and more then that, is a damn deal better person then most people are.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
You know, Douglass Adams is probably rolling over in his grave.
-- IANAEG - I am not an elder god.
is not
I know it'll work. I catch my Granfather carrying on conversations with mechanical devices constantly.... "F*cking toaster, burning my toast...." "You f*cking car, you better start!" (This one directed to the T.V.) "You sunovabitch!" To have device that actually answered back would be great....finally satisfaction! Grandpa: F*ck you! Robot: Okay. Grandpa: I'm now satisfied. Bring me an iced tea.
I submit that these robots are a good thing. I've seen a great many comments bemoaning the loss/lessening of human contact, or saying that seniors should adopt real animals. In the first case, people are suggesting that we're just "throwing away our old people" or the like, that the real problem is that family isn't visiting family any more. I say: so what? Really, how many people actually *like* spending time with their family members? I'm sure you're out there, but from what I've seen, read, experienced, etc., I get the sense that most of the time, people spend time with family members when they'd really rather be with their friends. Why? Because "they're family", which seems to give them a right to a not insignificant chunk of one's time, i.e. one's life. If you were in a nursing home, do you really want people coming to see you when you know they don't want to be doing it? Or would you rather have everyone be (gasp!) honest with each other? Really, that's the first requirement to actually wanting to see one another in the first place....
As far as animals go, think of the situation here. I'm sure most folks have heard how nursing homes often have staffing problems, either in terms of numbers or quality (or both). Is adding more creatures to take care of going to help? Probably not. The staff probably doesn't have the time to deal with cats, dogs, or whatever. And the residents? Sure, some of them might be fine, and I hope they're in a home where they can have an animal if they want it, but remember: they're in a nursing home because, presumably, they can't take care of themselves. How do you expect them to take care of an animal when they can't remember to take their medicine? I realize that not all residents are this badly off, but I think the overall issue's still valid.
I'm all for improving the quality of life in nursing homes. Looking at the entire context, robots look like a much better way of doing this than real animals or reluctant relatives.
--Mike
By the way I'm maybe starting on a mod team that is taking RTCW and making it into a RISK type game. Check it out. I hear they need mappers and such if you'd like to throw some polygons down for fun not profit :)
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Doesn't seem so stupid now!
One of those big boobed wench robots from the
medievel section of "Westworld" would cheer me
up when I am old and decrepit. Ooops dropped my
spoon again, can you be a dear and get it for me.
Dark red text, black background.
... NEED. Especially in the case of the elderly, were an animal companion can easily be the reason to go on living. The fact that somebody else, someone else, even something else, needs you.
:) )
:(
The pain.
The paaain!
annnyways.
For many animals are not a mere luxury item, they are something that people
Of course many people these days have been raised to be completely self serving and thus have little if any knowledge of the warmth and joy that comes from helping another fellow living being. These people obviously do not benefit from animals and consider them a nuisance at best and in the worst cases even abuse them.
http://messybeast.com/emoticat.html is rather nice in that at least it admits that there is the potential that the more complex human emotions merely stem from the more basic simple emotions that all of the more advanced forms of mammals have. (That is by personal belief, as all complex human emotions can be traced directly down to their primitive roots with very little work).
You said that human emotions are the luxury of our advanced civilization, well after so many millennia of domestication, could not other animals have also developed more sophisticated emotions over time?
(well it is either that or they just spend a lot of time sleeping, take your pick.
Damnit now I want to run home and play with my dog, ugh. Classes in an hour so that is not an option.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
It is common knowledge that all robots eventually run amok and start slashing/electrocuting the people around them, so by doing this, we solve all sorts of problems at once: shaking down of software bugs, reducing the overcrowding of nursing homes, etc. The only downside is, then we will have to subsidize the prune farmers and the people at CBS for lack the huge drop-off in demand.
Now, old people eat canned dog/cat food, and have robots as pets???
Am I missing something here, or is this really messed up?
"I invented the car hood trailer awning"
Homer: Marge, Marge. Old people don't need companionship! They need to be isolated and studied, so it can be determined what nutrients they contain that can be extracted for our personal use.
Somebody set up us the bomb!!
Error: PANTS NOT FOUND. Press <F1> to continue.
I think we all know that the current generation robots made of metal and electronics don't have sufficient warmth, cuddliness and responsiveness to make people happy.
I'm sure there will be some stopgap measures for people that aren't too particular, including GeorgeClooneyBots for grandma and BritneySpearsBots for grampa.
But seriously, I think the only way these things can succeed is to make them correlate with what old people recognize as genuine warm and friendly loved ones.
Face it, short of the loved one actually being there, we get some small bits of satisfaction out of seeing their photographs, their videos, hearing their voice on audio, talking with them on the telephone.
That being the case, the robots should mainly be communication and recording devices. Designed so that real loved ones can present their visual and audio images effectively through the robot at at distance, or, with recording, through time.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I agree with your point.
I also add that pets are furry and cuddly (and all the geeks on slashdot say "that's nice. Now shut up and go back to playing with your giggley-puff doll".) Won't lovable robots be just as sufficient and furry and cuddly pets?
In the mid 50's, a psychological researcher by the name of Harry Harlow, a pioneer in the study of attachment theory, did an experiment where he took infant rhesus monkeys away from their mothers and put them in front of two different "artificial mothers": one made of wire that carried a bottle of milk, and one artificial mother made of cloth that didn't have a bottle. The infant monkeys vastly preferred the cloth cuddly mother "doll" over the wire mother "doll", even though the wire doll had a bottle and the cloth one didn't.
For more info on this (and to prove I'm not BS'ing), check it out here
I think it's a neat experiment what they're doing with the AIBO's, but in the end its still "Cloth doll vs. Wire doll".
Damn...I wish I could have interrupted you. Not only are animals emotional, but they share some pretty common lower level traits with humans, as do many other animlas. After all, emotion is a very physical reaction. Someone that actually remembers freshman intro to psych can probably go into more detail on the actual part of the brain that controls emotion.
Here:
http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/tierphys/Startle/start le_emotion_e.htm
http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/bbs/Archive/bbs.lubi nski.html
Buy a book (excerpt)
And if you really want to prove that animals have emotions in a literally hands-on way, try punching a dog (preferably a doberman) in the nose REALLY hard a few times. Squeeze your fist really tight and clock him. Yeah...he'll probably try to bite your hand off, if not tear your neck open. Why? Because he feels the human equivalent of anger. We just can't call it anger, because anger is a human concept.
Most higher level animals have emotions, but since they are anatomically (and neurologically) different they have different types of emotions. We share some pretty basic feelings, such as fear, loss, delight, and anger. As humans we're blessed with extended thought that other animals don't have, although sometimes I do talk with my roommate's dog about how shitty life is and how she has it so easy.
Have you ever been a dog?? i havent, but i suspect that neither have you, so they could be smarter then you imagine, just to lazy to conquer the world.
Also, could you imagine the day that you come home and a robot comes to the door? they are metallic toys, not worthy companions. besides, if your only friend is a robot, you need new friends.
so maybe robots for the elderly are okay for cleaning etc., but they are definitely no substitute for a real person
So maybe our pets arent at the "take over the world" stage, but they still have a brain and thinking capacity
Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody is looking - H.L. Mencken
Empathy would require the animal to have emotions, I did not know that cats and dogs were capable of such things, please point out some specific studies.
It's not the pet that has to have emotions; it's the human. All that is necessary is that the pet interact with the human in such a way that it helps build empathy in the human. Dogs certainly do this. It also helps if the pet does not behave in a way that is inconsistent with the hypothesis that the pet has empathy. This is true of dogs; if they lose control with a human, they usually then behave as if they were sorry. It is not true of most cats.
As for whether pets have real love, it isn't a useful question. I don't know if any human other than me can feel love, and there is evidence from some ex-girlfriends and wives that many of them cannot. However, Bosco, Siren, and Tess display more evidence of love for me than you display of the ability of cognition.
And when will this happen?? What happened to the "flying cars of the future"? they never happened. In the world that you live in, do you teleport to work?
I dont
yet those before me said "in the future"
and well maybe in the future i will, but the future is not the same as today, right now, because it could be 1,000's of years before that happens, or it could be tommorrow
and since we are all going in to the future, why not just invent thought logic interfaces for animals so that they could do these things??
in the future, anything is possible,
so, i currently reside in the here and now
Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody is looking - H.L. Mencken
This has been done and done for a while in Japan.
Not if the robots are Jack Valenti.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
No research required, they are called DOGS. Why build a $200,000 robot to do what a $20 mutt from the Humane society can do better? Grandma is alergic? Get a hairless dog or shave the golden retriever.
The Americans spent hundreds of thousands to develop the Space Pen for astronauts. The Russians used a pencil.
Well, judging by the way Marvin turned out, I don't think robots will be very good at cheering people up since they can't be happy themselves.
;-)
My life's goal is to get a score of +3!
The mammalian brain, especially the amygdala is widely believed to be the root of our emotions.
This does not mean that our emotions are the same as animals' but the common belief that 'we can't change the way we feel' makes me wonder how far we've really evolved...
Most aspects of consciousness eg self-awareness, free will & rational thought are largely illusory anyway (think about programming a computer to do them). We are not as different from the animal kingdom as well like to think we are.
Dave.