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Unreal Tournament 2003, Now With More Ogg

Alizarin Erythrosin writes "Unreality is running an article today about a hands on preview of Unreal Tournament 2003. An interesting bit was on page 2, saying that Ogg Vorbis is being used to compress the audio for the game." A nice screenshot demonstrates some of the eye-candy.

61 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. wow that ogg looks great! by vipw · · Score: 5, Funny

    that's the best looking ogg player to date if you ask me. :)

    1. Re:wow that ogg looks great! by krmt · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but it's still not very portable, is it?

      --

      "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

    2. Re:wow that ogg looks great! by Guitarzan · · Score: 2

      You betcha.

      Ogg + rocket launchers...doesn't get much better than that.

    3. Re:wow that ogg looks great! by Guitarzan · · Score: 2

      "I got modded funny on slashdot, but it was really just stupid" --vipw

      (Heard here in the office a couple minutes ago.)

    4. Re:wow that ogg looks great! by vipw · · Score: 2

      yeah, he just got his paperwork. good luck cory, i hear it's a tight job market.

  2. Serious Sam: Second Edition by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Serious Sam: Second Edition (SSSE) has used Ogg Vorbis for music. Seems like it's catching on!

    --
    ^_^
    1. Re:Serious Sam: Second Edition by m_ilya · · Score: 2
      It does make some difference to some users. I recall reading one "Serious Sam: Second Edition" review where reviwer "complained" that he had to install ogg plugin for WinAmp to able to play soundtracks from game outside of "Serious Sam".

      So I guess usage of Ogg may help popularity of this format between users. If many different products will start using Ogg this format may became really popular like mp3.

      --

      --
      Ilya Martynov (http://martynov.org/)

  3. UT2003? I can't think... by loteck · · Score: 2, Funny

    of a better use for this.

  4. Operation Flashpoint... by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Also uses Ogg Vorbis - except you never saw that as a headline on slashdot.org

    1. Re:Operation Flashpoint... by tshak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Operation Flashpoint... Also uses Ogg Vorbis - except you never saw that as a headline on slashdot.org

      Ya, funny how one of the most popular games, based on the most popular FPS game engine, get's mentioned but a far less popular, niche-market targetted game doesn't get mentioned.

      --

      There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
    2. Re:Operation Flashpoint... by cjpez · · Score: 3, Funny

      Except I've also never heard of Operation Flashpoint. The squirrel running across my street right now, on the other hand, has heard of Unreal Tournament.

    3. Re:Operation Flashpoint... by daeley · · Score: 3, Funny
      The squirrel running across my street right now, on the other hand, has heard of Unreal Tournament.


      If he was carrying a Flak Cannon and running across the street towards you, I would close the window immediately and get under your desk. :)
      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  5. Benchmarks by kilocomp · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well it already seems slashdotted just after 2 posts. Anyway Anandtech.com has a sub $200 video card shoot out and one of the benchmark test is using the Unreal 2003 engine. So if you are in the market for a new video card and plan on making Unreal 2003 a major game played on the card check out this site:
    http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html ?i=1608

    Nick

  6. Re:doing up? by Sideswiped · · Score: 2, Informative

    trust me of what I've seen of the game q3 can't compare. www.ign.com has better screen caps of UT2003 the ones in the article here are rather poor. also of what I've seen the animations are top notch(q3's seem rather poor compared to these) and it even includes dismemberment.

  7. Hmmm looks like by vicviper · · Score: 2

    Evolve and Name|ess will be respawning soon.

  8. I have a silly question by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would you want to have any sort of audio compression taking up CPU cycles in a game that is so processesor depedent?

    These sort of games seem to work by pushing computers to their limits, so it just seems odd that they would include something that takes power away from graphics/engine, espically when it's really not needed. (standard CD audio can be read off a disk with next to no CPU usage)

    Am I way off base here? If so, let me know why.

    --
    The Internet is generally stupid
    1. Re:I have a silly question by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because with a game like this, your graphics card will probably be choked up before your CPU is. And nowadays, everybody has hardware-accelerated sound cards, which helps as well.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    2. Re:I have a silly question by gclef · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My first thought: Better to use the CPU than rely on disk I/O.

      Let's face it: if you don't compress the audio file, you're going to be relying on disk I/O to get the file out. That's going to suck in a fast-paced game. If you can minimize the disk I/O, you stand a good chance of speeding up the game.

    3. Re:I have a silly question by abahta · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well there would be a slight I/O delay using uncompressed audio when a map is loaded, but then it's loaded in RAM. It's not like your hard drive is accessed for each sound every time it is played.

      Hard drives are basically unused when it comes to most games of FPS nature, besides the inital loading of a map/sound effects/etc. The only exception I can think of is when you enter a place with high detail or triggered events.

    4. Re:I have a silly question by sgtsanity · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unreal Tournament 2003 will be a lot less CPU-limited than the original. They've moved a bunch of stuff from CPU instructions to GPU instructions.

    5. Re:I have a silly question by kindbud · · Score: 2

      If you leave the audio on the CD in RedBook format, you can just send a command every now and then to the CD player to change tracks. There's no I/O or CPU bottlneck. Makes it easy to change soundtracks too, without having to fiddle with a mp3 import program (Motor City Online), or fiddle with scripts (Tribes2): just put in a different CD.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    6. Re:I have a silly question by brer_rabbit · · Score: 2

      Better not use either! Any FPS-type game using disk I/O is going to slow to a halt. Ever notice how the disk is only used to load maps/change levels? Everything gets loaded into main memory when a map starts up.

      As to the original poster: it is definetely not a silly question, it was actually the first thing that came to me when I saw the article.

      *Perhaps* they're storing vorbis on disk, and decompressing the audio when the map loads? This way you save disk space, plus you don't take a cpu hit decoding vorbis while playing the game. Just a hunch.

    7. Re:I have a silly question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hardware accelerated 3D positioning has no effect on the decoding time of compressed audio (like Ogg). Very few soundcards support accelerated mp3 decoding, very much ogg.

    8. Re:I have a silly question by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 3, Informative

      Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the little wire that ran from the CD-Rom drive to the sound card shot out the raw audio to the sound card, which in turn, if instructed spits it out to your audio out.

      This should compleatly bypass any system/disk I/O, should'nt it? The requests the game is making on the hardware is just a start, stop, or change track instruction.

      I could see it being a problem if all of the audio was stored on the hard drive in wav (or simular format), but if your just looking at music, it just seems a good deal simpler to have that run off the CD.

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
    9. Re:I have a silly question by RelliK · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Why would you want to have any sort of audio compression taking up CPU cycles in a game that is so processesor depedent?

      1. Any recent FPS is not CPU-limited. It is video card-limited. (Except for really low resolution, color depth, and detail, but nobody plays that any more).

      2. On modern CPUs, MP3s take about 1% - 3% load to play. I expect ogg to be similar.

      In short, CPU usage is a non-issue.

      --
      ___
      If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
    10. Re:I have a silly question by ryanvm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would you want to have any sort of audio compression taking up CPU cycles in a game that is so processesor depedent?

      For one reason - on 3D games the video card is usually the bottleneck.

      standard CD audio can be read off a disk with next to no CPU usage

      Right, but at 10MB/min for CD audio it takes up A LOT of space that could be used for textures, models, levels, etc. A half hour of music would waste half the space on a CD.

    11. Re:I have a silly question by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 2

      Maybe I would be leaving the music turned on back in the old days before we had footsteps etc in games, but nowadays I want to use headphones, loud sound effects and no music.

      Come to think of it, I always turned the music off in the bad old days too because it was frequently playing off the cd-rom, so it would freeze up the damn computer for a couple of seconds when the track restarted...

      graspee

    12. Re:I have a silly question by DrSkwid · · Score: 2

      irc the CPU hog extaordinaire!!

      you could have 1 million windows and still all of them idle!

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    13. Re:I have a silly question by sean23007 · · Score: 2

      Maybe they're using ogg to save memory space. Disk space isn't really that important, but memory space is crucial. They may be relying on the ability to use another couple of percent of the CPU in order to save a couple of percent of the RAM. That's what I'd do if I knew enough about the rest of game-making to do something like this.

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    14. Re:I have a silly question by kwishot · · Score: 2

      Except that 90% of motherboards come now come with crappy AC97 onboard sound (yes, even "good" motherboards).

    15. Re:I have a silly question by Your+Login+Here · · Score: 2

      Even if you were going to waste 70 megs of ram on uncompressed cd audio, it would still be faster to load a 6 meg file and decompress it in ram.
      But it's better to just play the file normally, since ogg won't slow down a GHz cpu. And the ram is needed to load textures and maps.

    16. Re:I have a silly question by Datafage · · Score: 2

      Anyone who's too cheap to buy real audio for a game like this has no place to complain about performance...

      --

      Nicotine free Amish .sig.

    17. Re:I have a silly question by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      So? 90 percent of motherboards also come with a PoS ATI chip for video, too. You going to upgrade to a GeForce 4, and not bother getting a sound card? Of course, I'm still using my Vortex 2 card... "Best soundcard EVER!"

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    18. Re:I have a silly question by Downtown · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You made an assumption based on Unreal Tournament actually. It is a fairly well known fact that UT was very CPU dependant(Q3 being vid card dependant).

      Well UT2003 is a totally different. The latest version of UT is v436. UT2003 should have a version number in the 600's... then old engine was meant to run great on 3dfx cards... the new one will not(a V3 will not be able to run the new version).

      Now back to the cpu myth. They changed the engine to allow for the latest eye candy and effects... so it will not be CPU dependant... as they designed the engine to run on a certain class of video cards(Radeons and above). It is the video card that is holding back games these days...

    19. Re:I have a silly question by kindbud · · Score: 2

      What kind of "half-decent" machine lacks a 20 cent cable from the CD drive to the soundcard? :)

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    20. Re:I have a silly question by kwishot · · Score: 2

      The comment was in response to the parent.

      Having worked at a computer store for the past 2 1/2 years, I can attest to the fact that most people feel that onboard sound is adequate, even if it isn't.

      Look at the Soyo Dragon boards for example. Onboard 5.1 surround sound. Except for the fact that it's crap. Most people see the onboard 5.1 and assume that it's good, even though it's like AC97+more outputs!

      -kwishot

  9. W00t! by Kaypro · · Score: 2

    This looks like an unbelievable upgrade to the original. Wondering if this will take advantage of Gefore4t technology. Would defintely consider upgrading my GF2 if this was the case.

  10. this makes things so hard. by Brigadier · · Score: 2, Insightful



    Ok I was set to buy my ps2, after all GT3, made it all worth it, now this, now I have to put aside my years savings to buy a new video card because my dual voodoo2 isn't supported by win2k and it would probable choke. ofcourse my new video card, wont work on my overclocked celron 300a. so now i need a new board cpu memory. WHY !!!! dont people realize it sucks to play on my computer in my basement i want to go upstairs on my 48" TV. but i still want my network play so i can shoot the heads off all my wayward co-workers

  11. Better sceenshots by spike+hay · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
  12. Fucking wicked by phutureboy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cool. If I'm not mistaken, my friend from Schloss Tegal did the soundtrack for some of the levels. You can check out some of his music here. He makes some dark, creepy stuff - perfect for Unreal.

  13. Help for Mainstream Ogg? by Rob.Mathers · · Score: 2

    Perhaps this will be the beginning of a mainstream penetration of the Ogg format. IIRC, before every teen in the western world (yes, generalization/exaggeration I know) had a 5 gig mp3 collection, there were some games using mp3 (although i can't remember specific examples). Perhaps this will encourage the semi-tech crowd (the casual gamer type mostly) to use Ogg, and it may filter down in to the main populous who mainly uses mp3 right now.

    OTOH, mp3 use has become so widespread over the last 2-3 years that getting the millions who use it daily to switch to a format that provides little benefit for them (they simply want to listen to their music) is unrealistic.

    --

    My other sig is funny!
  14. Linux Version? by JebuZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone know if there are plans to release a Linux port, now that Loki isn't around?

  15. Re:lame graphics? by MisterBlister · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Those are some rather lame screenshots, I must admit. Other than HUD changes and weather effects which arent exactly jaw-dropping it looks like it could be a standard UT mod/map. However, after having seen some other screenshots and in-game movies earlier I think UT2003 actually looks quite good..Not Doom3 good, but better than these screenshots here show.

  16. Divx downloads of UT 2003 LAN game by pcmills · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    Ask Slashdot - google for stupid people.
  17. Who Cares? by krmt · · Score: 2

    Fair enough, but is that really the point anyway? UT is a great game, and it's getting kind of long in the tooth now, but it's still a blast. UT 2003 is going to be a kickass game if it follows the model of its predecessor.

    The thing that caught my eye more than the graphics and the new HUD look was the message at the bottom of the shot saying "You have the ball, deliver it to the enemy base!" I don't know if this is a mod that's already out there, but it seems like it's based on sports like football, soccer (the other white football), and games like it. More modes of play means more fun which means a better game, graphics aside. If my computer can run it when it comes out, it'll be in my hands ASAP.

    --

    "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

    1. Re:Who Cares? by Violet+Null · · Score: 2

      The thing that caught my eye more than the graphics and the new HUD look was the message at the bottom of the shot saying "You have the ball, deliver it to the enemy base!" I don't know if this is a mod that's already out there, but it seems like it's based on sports like football, soccer (the other white football), and games like it.

      Team Fortress Classic (for Half-Life) had a map called 'Push'. Instead of having two flags, you had one soccer ball, and the point was to take it to the goal in the other team's base.

  18. Re:Look, editors. by SomeOtherGuy · · Score: 2

    I really enjoyed Oggs comments too. (Ogg if you are reading this -- I beg of you please come back!!)

    --
    (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
  19. The moral of the story: by jimbolaya · · Score: 5, Funny

    Use Ogg, get free advertising on Slashdot.

    --

    There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.

  20. I don't think so... by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 2
    Unfortuneately, I don't think there will be a Linux version of the next UT and Unreal games. I believe they are using a revamped UT engine, which only supports Direct3D(aka, DirectM$Lockin).

    From the Unreal 2 site...

    Q. For what platforms is Unreal II being developed?

    A. At this time, the PC is the only announced platform.

    Now that doesn't mean much, "announced platform"? It's been a while since I've read anything about it, but I am pretty sure I read that it is going to be D3D only ;-( I can't find it right now though...

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
  21. Linux port possibility! w00t! ;-) by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 3, Informative
    From Linuxgames.com...

    UT2003 For Linux? - Wednesday Apr 17 18:53:54 2002 - Updated by AlKini
    foser wrote in to point out a little bit of information regarding the possibility of UT2003 being ported to Linux. The information came from an IRC interview in which Mark Rein from Epic participated:

    [19:35] DE/Epic: Will UT2003 make it to Linux? If so, server, client or both?
    [19:35] Server for sure on Linux
    [19:36] MarkRein[Epic]: any word on a client
    [19:36] Irix--> Don't know yet about a client but it will probably happen eventually
    [19:37] Irix--> We'd definitely like to see it and I know Dan Vogel is talking with some friends of his who would like to do it.

    So, someone who could do it, wants to do it. I sure want him to do it ;-)

    So, I take my previous comment back ;-)

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
  22. No, the Real moral of the story: by Rayonic · · Score: 2

    Tycho Brahe has laser eyes.

    RUN.

  23. some more links by krs-one · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Screens
    screens 1
    screens 2
    gamespot article
    screens 3
    screens 4
    screens 5

    Weapons
    http://www.unrealops.com/ut2-weapons-preview.htm

    Hope this makes someone as happy as it did me when I first got it. :)

    -Vic

    1. Re:some more links by WildBeast · · Score: 3, Funny

      To be released on July 2002? That's it, I'm postponing my vacation so I can play Unreal.

  24. That's called MOD by yerricde · · Score: 2, Informative

    I like what they did w/ the first unreal. It was kind of like midi, except it had samples of the sounds used right there in the file.

    That's called mod. It's commonly used on Game Boy Advance games too. The UMX files are actually renamed XM, S3M, and IT files, and you too can make those with Modplug Tracker.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  25. No linux port... by Lumpy · · Score: 3

    Who cares unless there is a linux port of it. Loki isnt around to give us a port for this one, so I'm betting it will never surface..

    Hey! EPIC! I'll pay $75.00 for a linux version that DOES NOT USE WINE.
    and I'm sure there are others that also would do the same.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  26. Consumers use MP3 because it has integer decoders by yerricde · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps this will encourage the semi-tech crowd (the casual gamer type mostly) to use Ogg, and it may filter down in to the main populous who mainly uses mp3 right now.

    People still use MP3 because there are pocket-sized MP3 players, and there are pocket-sized MP3 players because efficient MP3 decoder software that uses fixed-point (integer) arithmetic is widely available. The reference Vorbis decoder still uses floating-point arithmetic, which common ARM microprocessors cannot do in real time.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  27. Re:Assult? by rhakka · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nope, you didn't miss it, Assault has officially been canned from the UT2003 release. Interestingly enough, the other gametypes available are all "double objective" gametypes;

    -Capture the Flag,
    -Domination 2 (control point on each end, hold both simultaneously for 5 seconds to score a point for your team),
    -Bombing Run ("bomb" or "ball" in the middle, carry it to the opponent's base to score, kind of like football, and you can throw it to a teammate as well).

    My guess is the multiple objective game of Assault had far too few players to justify the surely formidable task of creating new maps for it. Domination was pretty small too, but I'm sure it's not too hard to make a good DOM map now with the tweaks from the old style.

    It's too bad though, with some work Assault could have been a much better gametype the second time around.

  28. Re:Assult? by Pxtl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's a shame... sounds like those gametypes all use the same maps - 2 bases with 1 "point" at each end, with a point int the middle for the ball to spawn. Boomball is a popular UT mod already - I'm a diehard player of that one - nice that a 3rd party mod is being incorporated into the game, although I prefer it in black flag mode, in which the ball is a graphically a more traditional flag - same gameplay though.

    Assault was one of my fave parts of UT - its how I got my brother, who swore he'd never get into mouseaiming into UT. Coop AS was awesome, especially playing sniper on Overlord.

    The problem with AS was a tendancy for overcomplex objectives. If they'd just made the maps have big red numbers saying "shoot me" and you have to shoot each number in order, then it all would be fine. Maybe include TFC style signs on where everything is. Instead you had to have already played the map to know the objectives - not good for newbies. DOM was similar, it was impossible to find the map points, and you never knew which name referred to which point.

  29. It's almost as if... by Cardinal · · Score: 2

    Ya, funny how one of the most popular games, based on the most popular FPS game engine, get's mentioned but a far less popular, niche-market targetted game doesn't get mentioned.

    It's almost as if Slashdot stories came from submissions from its readers, so naturally a more popular game would have more attention, and thus more potential news submissions.

    Weird.

  30. Re:Consumers use MP3 because it has integer decode by leuk_he · · Score: 2

    people still use MP3 because there are pocket-sized MP3 players,

    people use mp3 because everyone uses mp3: if you want to use a p2p tool to download music you want mp3 files, they are more likely to be found.

  31. Re:You don't know what you're missing! by cjpez · · Score: 2

    Hmmm... While I agree that it does sound pretty cool, I actually like all the elements of non-reality. (I was about to use the word "unreal" and realized that would have sounded silly.) I don't really want to play something that's entirely realistic and makes me feel like I'm really killing people. In Q3 and UT, I can frag people all I want; they keep coming back! No permanent damage done . . . I've always found the more "realistic" simulations a touch disturbing.