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Intel Shows Off 'Banias' Chip for Mobile Devices
deano writes "Intel has unveiled the first prototypes of their latest mobile "Banias" processors. The article states Banias systems with the Intel Odem Chipset will come out early 2003 and feature 802.11b. The article also speaks of the new Itanium with a 6Mb cache!"
Banana's never get hot in my experience, so if they can run x86 code, then use them in notebooks. It might make the shape a bit funny though, and the notebook will go off after a few days, but hey!
A monopolist company that's producing inferior chips at an inflated price.
The only thing that they've got on their side is that they provide low power consumption chips (Tualatins) but who cares if your chips consumes 70 W or 24 W. Just install a big enough fan.
Why Intel is setting themselves up for this, I have no idea.
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
6 MB cache? The UltraSparc III has an 8 MB cache. Intel is still playing catch-up.
Of course, it wan't that long ago I was excited to have 8MB *RAM*.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
So ugly. Maybe we should allow numbers to be trademarked after all.
I don't know about UltraSpace III though - is that on-die or off-die 8MB L3 cache?
The article also speaks of the new Itanium with a 6Mb cache!"
Well, it's important to see that a fast and useful cache technology is much more than a big cache. You need good access times, good hit ratio, etc. Sometimes you can even get better performance by disabling the cache.
It's application-specific, don't assume bigger is better.
A message from the system administrator: 'I've upped my priority. Now up yours.'
... that the Intel Roadmap has been displaced -1.5 yrs. The 6 MB cache Itanic will be at least 18 months late. So sad - the chip has so much potential despite it's bad press. I've had a Sitka 450 2MB cache server for 3 years and its got to be the best Intel product ever made.
Do you want to remove linux?
Banias, formerly Caesarea Philippi, is the Arabic name for the Hellenistic city of Paneas whose name derives from Pan, the Greek god of herds and shepherds. His cult was observed in a large cave at the foot of Mount Hermon, where a source of the River Jordan emerges.
Pepperdine University has conducted digs in the area that have unearthed parts of a palace from Herod Agrippa II. Modern-day Banias is located in Israel, where the Intel design team for the new chip is based. The company typically code-names its chips after geographical features.
I heard you could make a battery out of a potato or a lemon, but a processor out of a banana?
The speed of time is one second per second.
They're the best, Jerry. The best!
Perhaps all those countless hours of interfacing one's computer to a network can all be replaced by the Banana and other technological advances. The largest hinderance that holds people back with bringing laptops to LAN parties is the performance. Along with the introduction of the Raedon Mobile into the laptop community, chips like these configured strictly for mobility purposes will perhaps change the way LAN parties and the such are done. Bravo!
bah.
And in 2004/5 the news headlines on C|NET will talk about about:
Intel's New Slip Up - Banana Processor Fails to Satisfy
Why do we predict failure for products with silly names? Is Intel running out of accounting codes or something? ... Maybe their next processer will be called "Placenta" .
we have no Banias, we have no banias today.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Wow.
Why do I even bother reading slashdot anymore ?!
Isn't Odem the guy in the Bible who was smited by God for masturbating, or something? Perhaps Odem would be a better name for a pr0n^H^H^H^H "graphics and multimedia" chipset.
dinner: it's what's for beer
Are wireless NOCs something that may be coming down the pipeline? More and more webmasters are making the transition to dedicated servers but are still held back by the price tag... this could be the kick in the butt needed to help this sluggish and saturated market come back to life again.
Hammer of Truth
Where have all the DEC Alphas gone long time passing, Where have all the DEC Alphas gone long time ago, Gone to Monopolies everyone, Gone to Mon--Op--O-lies!
Well, according to AMD ... they ARE the 800lb gorilla ...
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
For reference, Banias is the name of a river in northern Israel - one of the three sources of the river Jordan. It's a pretty area, and great for gentle hiking. There are nice pictures of it here, here, here and through Google image search
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
The Banias is a small river in northern Israel, which feeds the Jordan river. And Odem means "ruby". They're just continuing their "name everything after running water" trend.
Oh really? Ask the goatse.cx guy if that's true...
They went to nanometer terminiology instead of micrometer ...
And DAMN ... 0.5 BILLION transistors ... impressive.
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
Where intel chips belong, of course.
Well, it can't be any worse than "Celeron".
Looks like transmeta is in trouble. The description of the chip in the article (shuts down unused parts completely) makes it sound like a low-power application chip. That's exactly what Transmeta is trying to market. An intel offering in that arena can only hurt Transmeta...
PeterM
It sounds like this chip will become 'unexpectedly' popular for desktop systems as well as portables. Things like wireless Ethernet will be useful on the desktop too, and if the chip runs cool then it won't need a noisy fan. (And reduced power consumption means you can use a fan-less PSU as well.)
I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel making a desktop version of this chip as the Celeron replacement, depending on what AMD come up with.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
1. This guy
2. This guy
3. This guy
4. This guy
5. This gal
6. CowboyNeal!
Anyone who posts something controversial is labelled a troll. Like it really matters if there's a big argument. If it doesn't interest you, don't read the thread, but please don't stamp out discussion.
Would you buy a 200mhz Pentium with 6mb of cache? Are you willing to rewrite your entire code base to take advantage of Itanium's architecture? With Itanium chips, those are your options. Wait for Sledgehammer or Whatever Intel cooks up at Ronler Acres to clone x86-64 (AA-64). 6mb sounds exciting until you address the costs associated moving to the Itanium platform.
But wait, with 6mb of cache, you might not have to optimize your existing code for the Itanium. You could just rely on BFI (Brute Force & Ignorance) to solve your troubles.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
I find a couple things interesting in the page your sig points to.
1) Windows and Linux can coexist on the same computer. For additional information, refer to your Linux documentation.
Hey, at least they admit that Windows CAN coexist with other OS's. I was shocked to even see this.
2) The Fdisk tool included with Linux can be used to delete the partitions. (There are other utilities that work just as well, such as Fdisk from MS-DOS 5.0 and later
So, do they really think that DOS fdisk is as powerful as the Linux equivalent? They can't really be serious. You have to jump through major hoops to get it to delete an NTFS partition most times.
3) Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as: (see the page for the list)
Another surprise from MS. Of course, they do not mention the limited partition type support of Windows.
Well, I just had to comment.
Isn't Bania that other comedian from seinfeld who was kind of annoying and always stole Jerry's bits?
This actually reminds me of the 486SX which was a 486DX with its math copro deactivated...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Bleh,
Who really cares what happens to Transmeta? They talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. The market has spoken.
When will Intel start having *cool* processor code names? Like "Death Eagle" or "Killer Robot" or "Massive Rampaging Gorilla"? Sure, "Thunderbird" sounds cool, but "Death Eagle" is way cooler! I bet they could really have a marketing coup by picking better names. Or maybe just marketing them under that name to kids or something, and leaving erudite poosae names for business marketing... or something.
Just think... the Intel Death Eagle 4! They could market it as 2 million KILLERhertz! Yeah!
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
did anyone else read that as 'bananas'? i thought, great, they've tapped a new organic fuel source.
An interesting benchmark would be to compare how much latency it would undertake to "wake up" these shut down parts. Sounds like a good benchmark against the translation Transmeta are famous for.
Dodge this !! --Trinity, The Matrix
So... does this processor demand 2 dinners at "Mendi" in exchange for an Armani suit?
"Mendi is the best, Jerry... the BEST."
For those of you not familiar with Seinfeld... Kenny Bania was a terrible commedian (hack) that Jerry couldn't stand. Although later, he became Bania's mentor writing the now imoratal "Ovaltine" routine...
"Why do they call it 'Ovaltine'? I mean, the jar is round... the glass is round... They should call it 'Roundtine'."
"This is GOLD, Jerry!"
Ok... so I need help. Damn tivo's ability to record every Sienfeld shown!
Jason
He's totally creeping out the Great One, eh...
Ann Arbor University doesn't exist. It's not a real school. Hence, the troll mod.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
This guy, with a PB&J fetish. (.swf file)
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!
Beat him and see his mp3 collection among other things, such as his selected links, etc.
Bonus: notice the links on the right side of the page ! (though you have to remove the mp3/ bit out of the URLs).
Imagine a beowulf cluster of those.
(runs away)
Just look at the other options they were hemming and hawing...:
Fluffernutter
ZippyChippy
SnuggleMuffin
CindiLauper
Not to mention this Goddamn thing. How the hell are you supposed to pronounce that??
Frankly, I'm thankful for Banias...
So who else first saw that as "Intel Shows Off 'Bananas' Chip for Mobile Devices"
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
I can't wait until Intel releases the Shi Tzu chip.
"Derp de derp."
"Yes, we have no Banias. We have no Banias today".
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
I did a search for 'River names' on Google and found that the Musselshell River was originally called Mah-Tush by the Native Indians in the area.
Damn I wish Intel'd name a line of processors after that... 'Mah-Tush overheated!'
"Derp de derp."
4/19/2002
.13 micron process still doesn't work, yet AMD showed theirs almost 2 months ago!
"McKinley, which Otellini said will go into production "midyear," is built on a 180-nanometer process"
"Intel did not demonstrate Madison working in an actual computer or disclose when the chip would be delivered"
2/26/2002
"AMD's demonstration featured "Hammer" running both a 64-bit Linux and 32-bit Microsoft® Windows® operating system. The AMD "Hammer" processors were manufactured on 0.13 micron, Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology, which together enable higher performance and lower power consumption."
So Intel's 64-bit processor built on a
-- Adam
I thought that's what you called what the bully vegetables did to the little tomatos [when they beat them to a paste].
Karma: NaN
The wireless ethernet is part of the chipset, so basically, it'd be like onboard ethernet, but why on earth would you want a friggin mobile cpu in a desktop? You don't have to worry about power consumption, space limitations, excessive heat, etc.
There are already alternatives for wireless on desktops as well, I believe linksys makes a PCI card for wireless now, you can also buy a pcmcia thingy for a desktop and slip a pcmcia wireless card in that.
The chipset probably won't have AGP or PCI support, or limited, so why on earth would you want it in a desktop?
The article does mention that:
To cut energy consumption, Banias automatically shuts off its different subcomponents when not in use. Although it's designed for notebooks, the chip will also appear in thin "blade" servers.
I'm curious what the cost of turning off the subcomponents is to performance? Anyone have a clue?
What?
modding somebody because of his sig or his rep is grounds for $RTBL in my opinion.
And the chipset is, of course, the Odium.
"Main Entry: odium
Pronunciation: 'O-dE-&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, hatred, from odisse to hate; akin to Old English atol terrible, Greek odyssasthai to be angry
Date: 1602
1 : the state or fact of being subjected to hatred and contempt as a result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance
2 : hatred and condemnation accompanied by loathing or contempt : DETESTATION
3 : disrepute or infamy attached to something : OPPROBRIUM"
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Yes, a desktop does have to worry about power consumption and *definitely* space limitations. We're always being told how computers are getting smaller and smaller, yet the desktop PC hasn't shrunk at all recently, if anything it is bigger than ten years ago (minitower cases, larger CRTs).
You don't really need AGP, it's not essential for a video card (unless you play certain games). Not having PCI support is more contentious, but if the stuff you need is on the motherboard you could build a desktop PC without PCI slots. I mean what does the average desktop have beyond video, sound and Ethernet?
I'm thinking of something like the IBM PS/2 E, which was essentially a laptop in a desktop case. It had four PCMCIA slots, an LCD screen and trackpoint keyboard. Video and IDE interfaces were on the motherboard. The machine is very small and, when the HD spins down, completely silent. With its 50MHz 486SLC2 processor it wasn't a speed demon even at the time (1992), but quietness, reliability and a small footprint are sometimes more important than raw speed.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
The real interesting aspect of this chip is the possibility of using it in a Ultra-dense server. The low-power (hence low heat)allows engineers to pack in more of these processors into a confined space for a lot more performance. Bravo Intel. Transmeta had this idea, they just didnt have the performance to back it up. Motorola and IBM also had the same idea (G4's), but they cant keep up in the Mhz Race (or should I say Ghz race). I know the company i currently work for, is looking into other vendors then Motorola for ultra-dense compute boxes. Intel is looking good at this point, but the main issue is power. There's only a finite amount. So, do we use 4x G4's or 1x P4? Its a question we are slowly answering.
when you say "Bania" outloud, it kinda sound similar to baño except for the last letter. Coincidence? I think not.
.smell my feet.
Ooh, a 6MB cache. We've got a crusty old Alpha with an 8MB cache. So what? Someday Intel might buy into a fast worstation chip and make good use of it. They did buy the Alpha, but I doubt they'll make good use of it. That's because the only way I believe Intel could make good use of the Alpha would be to reunite the Alpha team and continue its development. It really appears that Intel will never design a fast workstation chip.
-Paul Komarek
It was hand carried through Intels's Hudson, MA. Fab in 16 days. Nothing was to stand in its way.
sure is lots of "+5 funny" goin' to people for saying "huh huh... banana.. huh huh... huh huh ... odius ... huh huh... "
is everybody on this thread six years old or what?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
So I'm wondering if this chip is worth waiting for in a laptop. The main power usage in a laptop should be the screen, discs like a HD or CD drive, and then a CPU, right?
And right now tha Banias is so far off in the future it won't change my upcoming purchase of an ultralight notebook.
To cut energy consumption, Banias automatically shuts off its different subcomponents when not in use. Although it's designed for notebooks, the chip will also appear in thin "blade" servers.
That was my thought, too, when I heard about a chip that had a notebook-motivated balance between performance and power consumption.
That it would find some acceptance in the server room, where power dissipation issues loom large.
And then I thought: why stop there?
Why not use these in the next generation desktops, too? So that people won't need those noisy fans and big honkin power supplies? Most people are just running email, Word and a browser.
I mean, as anyone looked seriously at the huge gap that exists between how much of the desktop CPU power is actually needed versus how much is available if the processor runs flat out?
If there were some multimedia hardware implementations in these things, I doubt there would be much need for anyone to go out and buy a 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 or whatever McKinley/Madison.
Those minority applications that really need CPU power should just use a rack of these things.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
With todays chip architectures, you can't simply compare 6MB to 8MB and say 8MB is better. Everything needs to be in balance to get max performance. Cache size interacts with cache latency which interacts with main memory latency which interacts with how many caches you have which interacts with how many cache ways you have which interacts with replacement policy which interacts with branch prediction algorithms which interacts with code and data prefetch algorithms which interacts with the compiler's code optimizations which interacts with the compilers data layout optimizations... etc, etc. And then, let's talk aps-- how big is the data footprint? code footprint? tight loops or lots of branchy non-loop code traces? Float intensive? Lock intensive? look-up intensive? decision logic intensive?. Go spend a couple of years learning the basics of benchmarking, then come back and share your wisdom. This is not a defense of Intel... my criticism would be the same no matter who's products you were comparing so simplisticly.
I'll revise my statement a bit =] Computers could definitely be made smaller and more power efficient (for us power hungry USians, we just don't really care about power consumption too much, we leave our home pcs on 24/7 anyway, eh?) But, smaller pcs cost a little bit more, and the parts (such as a laptop hard drive) are a little more susceptible to damage. If you're that worried about space, go buy a new iMac.
PCI video is nice, but AGP is better. I'd argue for more than just games, but that's all I use that is heavy in the video department so I can't speak for it too much.
Also, is PCMCIA still limited to 11mpbs throughput? I haven't looked up on this lately, but that's another to consider in lieu of lack of PCI =]
Another odd note.. I just bought a small box and put a flex atx in it, so maybe I care about space too =]
What?
Odem is Hebrew for Ruby. It is derived from the word "adom" which means "red".
I'm curious what the cost of turning off the subcomponents is to performance? Anyone have a clue?
Obviously I don't know the implementation specifics, but I still have a clue.
The normal method of "turning off subcomponents" is to simply gate the clock to those parts that aren't being used that clock. E.g. when running pure integer code, the floating-point unit will not be clocked, saving the power consumed by the local clock drivers, flops, and other circuits by preventing the transistors from switching. If the floating-point adder is used but the multiplier isn't, then the clock is gated to the multiplier. This has essentially zero impact on performance, since the only things it affects are things you weren't using anyway.
As transistors get smaller, leakage current -- which results in power loss even when the transistors aren't switching -- becomes a bigger factor. A more ambitious power-saving method would be to drop the high voltage rail for the subcomponent, eliminating leakage current. This is a lot harder (especially without SOI), and I don't know if anyone does it. Anyway, this would have a performance penalty as you wouldn't be able to turn it on and off on a cycle-by-cycle basis. It would take several (possibly many) cycles for the voltage rail to stabilize.
My money is on it just being some basic clock-gating.
The enemies of Democracy are
I would really like to have a small and cheap and cool and quiet desktop. Performance really doesn't matter anymore; my 233MHz Pentium II laptop surfs the web just as well as my 1GHz Athlon. For everything except serious number crunching (e.g., runnning Open Office), it's still quick enough.
It sounds to me as if this could provide most of those qualities, by using a mix of laptop and destop parts. For example, laptop chipset and cpu for low power and quiet/no-fan operation, 5400RPM desktop harddrive for cheap and fast (relative to the 4500RPM laptops models), et cetera. If this could let you have slightly-more-than-laptop power consumption and size, at a modest premium over desktop prices, it would be great. If there's no fan noise, that makes it ok to put in the living room.
If you want to run your computer 24/7, you really do care about power. Those 300W power supplies can cost big bucks when you run them for the 8760 hours in a year. If you figure 300W actual load on the meter (that'll be more than the actual output power, of course, since it isn't 100% efficient) and ten cents per kWh, I figure it costs you about $263 per year to let your uptime stack up. One of the reasons I use my laptop a lot at home is that it has an 18W power supply. I figure that's costing around $20 per year. Over the life of the laptop, that helps take the sting out of the higher initial price. Of course, if you're running pre-win2k windows, you need to shut down every night anyway, so this may be a moot point.
You're talking about the chipset - not the CPU. It's very possible, if not likely that they will produce more then one chipset. How many chipsets does the P4 now have?
It was more of a mixed comment. The person I replied made it sound like the wireless was part of the cpu. The story said that there was a system being built on a specific chipset that would have the wireless on it. I think that is cool, but that specific one, designed for a laptop, probably isn't going to have AGP or PCI support, so you would want a different chipset if you were going to put it in your desktop. Make sense?
What?
In India, in the national language (Hindi), the shopkeepers are called banias (ba-nee-yah).
...are you talking about? Find me a program that gets better performance by disabling the cache. A miss to the cache doesn't take up any more time than a regular uncacheable access to the FSB. Worst case it would be equally as fast if you had a program that never executes the same line of code twice.
I agree things aren't that simple. I was making fun of the front page comment about 6MB. The Alpha performance I refer to don't come from reading magazines; they come from the last three years I've spent getting intimate with a handful of Alphas and x86 machines. What I don't know about is the Merced. But that's because nobody I know at Carnegie Mellon University has one. From what I have read, the only researchers who think the Merced is worth the money are the researchers who got one for free.
;-)
At any rate, I wasn't attempting to share Wisdom. I was attempting to share Scorn for the garbage put out by Intel over the last 10 years. Thanks for the free refreshing on cpu microarchitecture.
-Paul Komarek
Heh, two great minds...
My first thought was "hey, Banamas chips!"
I've always liked that mispronunciation (SP?).
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
"Banias" are also the business/trader community in India -- more accurately, the "bania" caste is traditionally the caste of traders and merchants (though these days it doesn't necessarily mean anything).
I disagree with this post.
I prefer the AMD Moron©
$ make work
make: *** No rule to make target `work'. Stop.
...in a desktop...you don't have to worry about power consumption
Yes you do.
I like a quiet system, without a noisy-as-hell fan running. I like a cool environment for my hard drives. I like not tracking tons of dust through my case. I like not adding to the heat the monitor already builds up in my non-AC room -- you can *feel* the difference when the monitor is off.
Besides, Intel scales clock speeds based on temperature. If you let unused parts of the chip cool down, you can run the parts you *are* using faster.
May we never see th
(or something like that)
..a bunch! So the new phrase can be "Imagine a Beowulf bunch(tm) of those!"
People seem much brighter once you light them on fire.
Say, isn't "Banias" close to "Banos", the Spanish word for bathroom? Any Spanish speakers out there?
In which case, I suppose we will eventually see "Pissium"
..leaves exactly 3 of 14 messages of any note. I mean, the rest were funny, but sheesh.
Oh God, I can't belive in this! BANIAS actualy mean ERECTED CLITORIS in Czech langage!!! (a very wulgar word!) ROTFL!!! :)))
I can't wait when it be selling in our stores
here were I life!
This's the best name EVER I hear!
In Slovak Republic where I live, banias used as noun means the clit or outer parts of vagina (I'm sorry for my English, I don't know the medical names) and used as a verb means licking the clit or puting toungue into the vagina. But this is a word used more on the street than by the scientists, that is a dirty word, you say it to prostitutes and so on. I wonder if they are going to change the name in Slovak Republic. I would not like to because it is very funny to say something like: "hey baby, I am expert with banias, do you want me to have a look at yours?" in bars and disco pubs. :)
Just because you've got a 300W power supply doesn't mean you're drawing 300W continuously. That's just the maximum rated throughput it can provide. My computer draws less than 125W except at startup. And less when it's power saving (in the neighborhood of 50W).