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MS Pressuring NW Schools: Pay Up, Or Face Audit
razvedchik writes: "As reported in this article in the Portland, OR newspaper, The Oregonian, Microsoft is pressuring 24 school districts in the northwest to agree to their Microsoft School Agreement licensing scheme or undergo an audit in 60 days. Multnomah ESD, which covers the greater Portland area and has around 25,000 computers, has to either decide to accept the license at about $500,000 or undergo the audit which it does not have time to prepare for. Of significant interest is the fact that a significant majority of these schools are experimenting with using Linux. Multnomah ESD has its own thin-client Linux distro called K12LTSP."
What legal right do they have to inspect the premises? Why do these schoolboards have to submit to these audits. It's not like I have the right to inspect the computers of everyone attached to the network that I run.
This would be a perfect time for some large linux distribution company, or a consulting company to step in and donate time to help them migrate entirely to Linux. It would have to be a disruptive migration because of the audit in 60 days threat but they could do it.
You would think with such a large focus on MS right now they'd not pull this kind of crap especially in a tight economy and a region full of protestors. Should be interesting to see how this develops.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Hey guys, seriously, if the schools want to use Windows, they should pay for it. They pay for books, they pay for pencils, they pay for desks. Granted if Microsoft wanted schools to use Windows, they should give it to the schools for free (which I hear they routinely do).
This is a pretty dumb move imo of course as it will do nothing but drive the schools to look to cheaper (free) OSes, but it's well within Microsoft's right to do dumb things.
I would humbly suggest that readers in that area volunteer to help get books in order for the audit. And or help to switch over systems to Linux away from Microsoft.
Help the schools out with a little bit of your time and expertise.
Uh, time for someone to undercut the proposed license fees with a counter plan involving a cheaper, more reliable alternative?
This is no way to win over the K-12 education crowd. Apple did it in the 80's by offering quality, easy-to-use computers at discounted prices.
Bullying the local school children mob style probably won't win them the following they were after in the first place. I wonder if the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation will start to pick on all the Public Libraries they have pushed Windows on.
Whatever happened to the concept of 'Innocent until proven guilty'? The district shouldn't be considered guilty simply because they cannot afford to run an internal audit of their own. Innocence should not have to be bought.
I would have read that if you had learned how to use line breaks.
"Derp de derp."
When you install a (note that, "a") copy of any MS product then you are explicitly giving them the right to audit you.
Best Slashdot Co
Not just schools, it's a form of retaliation against the .gov by microsoft, in response to the recent trials.
.gov M$ you owe us $15million
A friend of mine works for an arm of the VA (Veterans Affairs) According to this friend, the VA is being systematically searched by M$ for license compliance, so far with grim results. Supposidly the VA is about 20million out of compliance with M$ products. It doesn't just stop at M$ stuff though.
While M$ is doing their "sweeps" they will make it their business to report any competitors product being out of license as well. This includes everything from an over the limit shareware version of winzip, to "borrowed" installed copies of quicken, and the like.
It's pretty clear what is going on. The states that have fined M$ are owed money, but all M$ has to do is prove they are out of license compliance.
M$ We pay up when you pay us for our software
It's a pretty smart tactic on M$'s part when you think about it. It's not like M$ hasn't known for years everyone pirates their software to hell. It's just kinda funny how they use it as a trump card to save their ass.
Interesting that this was issued to take effect in 60 days (late June) [now, is this 60 real days or 60 business days?]. If this school district is anything like the school districts I'm familiar with, they would just be gearing down for end of term at around that time.
I sure wouldn't want disruptions then. I wonder why they didn't time it so that the audit had to happen mid-summer or some other non-peak time instead.
...Microsoft hasn't pulled this same stunt on the various state governments that are still pushing the case against them? They might as well, since after the info in this article becomes more widespread I can't imagine how they could look any worse. I have to admit, lamebrain tactics like this probably do more for the Linux community than anything.
Seriously tho, what keeps the school from telling them to bugger off? Could Microsoft get a court order to allow their audit teams to search (especially if the school sent a statement to the effect of "we won't be using your software anymore, so don't bother with the audit")?
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Seems to me like MS is taking it's revenge for the anti-trust suite by trying to audit every government institution. I don't know the details but that's what it looks like to me. But you know what? I don't feel sorry for any of them.
Let's say that MS shows up at my door and says "We want to audit your machines". What would happen if I just slammed the door in their faces? What right do they have to audit anybody?
Note: I'm not talking specifcially about schools, but rather a business that presumably has made no contractual deals with them.
"Derp de derp."
Whatever happened to the concept of 'Innocent until proven guilty'?
It has slowly mutated:
1) Innocent until proven guilty
2) Guilty until proven innocent
3) Guilty, period.
4) Guilty, and suggesting there may be such a thing as "innocence" is a crime too.
5) CBDTPA
I'm sure someone reading this in MW, or a local LUG, has a spare few hours and a hundred dollars or so write a couple of hundred Linux CD-ROMs and post them with a clear and reasonable letter to the govenors of these schools, pointing out the benefits of OSS software.
With a little effort you'll have done a lot of good for the schools of MW and shown Microsoft for the callous bastards that they are.
So what the combo of less property tax and more gambling has done is shift the tax burden for schools from business to individuals, and disproportionately to poorer individuals, who tend to gamble more (this is not a value judgement, just a fact).
Also, Portland currently has the highest unemployment in the nation - about 9.5% last I checked. Furthermore, our Superintendent or Schools
I hope that helps put this quote from the article in context: The trouble is, if 60 days isn't enough time to audit 25,000 machines it sure as hell isn't enough time to convert them to Linux. It boggles my mind that Microsoft is going so far out of its way to piss people off. [Insert ob. Princess Cinnamon-Bun quote here]
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
The comment in the article about generic software is a clever observation. After all, we have generic drugs, generic foods, off-brand clothing lines. Each of these is most likely a lucrative market for the companies that don't command name brand recognition. A significant portion of the population of the world can't reasonably afford the top o' the line products.
:^)
So it seems that generic software, which does almost everything that name brand software does, should be a natural part of the computing world. Yet, where are those generic word processors and spreadsheets and even operating systems? Why is 95% of the desktop market, including these important applications, controlled by one company with nearly impenetrable barriers to entry?
And does this news article point to an example of that very company moving to stamp out a potential insurgence of that generic software? Would we stand for Del Monte moving to shut off the supply of generic branded vegetables on store shelves, especially when someone pointed out that many families couldn't afford the more expensive brand? Why should we stand for Microsoft bringing in jack-booted thugs against schools that have budget shortages?
Yeah, that's inflammatory language. So what?
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
In my spare time, I do charity work. Much of it is non-technical, but some is the obligatory website and or a bit-o-help when thier office network goes kafloooie.
... which generally fell on deaf ears.
With the recent annoucements of user friendly distributions such as Lycoris and Mandrake (I've yet to give the new Debian a spin), I have been trying to get the office staff of the church I attend to make the switch.
Sure, they won't get ALL the power of MS Word, but then again, THEY DON'T ever really use all that power anyway.
Recently, I had been warning them about MSFT's draconian licensing practices
I'd like, at this time, to thank Microsoft for making my case for me.
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
The audit is designed to prove ownership of the software. In essence, Microsoft is possibly forcing them to prove their own guilt. If you walk out of a store and set off the alarms, you have to show a receipt for your merchandise to prove that you paid for it. It's not up to the store to conduct an inventory analysis and prove there is a sweater missing. It's up to you to prove that you paid for it and own it legit.
sheesh.
The best way to help out in Portland is the following links:
K12LTSP Project with some associated links and contact information.
Portland LUG, who have been talking about this on their listserv.
I do what the voices on my console tell me to do.
I think you forgot "Bend over and enjoy the ride".
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Read your EULA. It will SPECIFICALLY state that M$ has the right to inspect/audit you at any time.
So, if Microsoft can prove that you EVER bought ANY Microsoft software, they can enter your premises and audit you.
Now, if you've NEVER bought anything legally from them, that's a different story... interesting...
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Yeah, but maybe if the kids in school use linux, they won't be so afraid to touch a computer that doesn't have windows on it.
It's amazing how much Microsoft relys on users being absolutely scared to death to use something other than windows. If kids learn its not really all that different to use a windows machine as it is to use an Apple or Linux w/ Gnome or KDS, then thats a good thing. Maybe all those single GUI arguments will go by the wayside, too. We should be teaching our kids how to run a computer not exactly what button to click. GUI environments are alike enough that you should be able to teach students the basic concepts that make any GUI workable.
2. Most Schools purchase their MS software through Volume License agreements which have a clause stating that periodic audits are a term of the agreement.
3. The Oregonian article stated that if schools choose to have MS conduct the audit, they need to pay MS's costs if just one computer is found out of compliance. I believe the actual clause states that they need to be more than 5% out of copliance district wide.
Having stated this, I am an employee at one of these districts and the amount of work is staggering. I thought I was going to be the only Anti-MS zealot to see what a heavy handed tactic this is, so I am pleasantly surprised that many others see it and feel the same way.
FYI...I have posted Anonymously since my e-mail makes it easy to see who I am and which district I work for, and many here don't feel that getting rid of MS software is a good idea.
Keep passing the opem windows...
Did anyone else notice this? On my SuSE 7.3 with Mozilla 0.9.9, viewing this page (be that online or offline after wget'ing the page) crashed Mozilla! It's not the ads code, I just cut it out and re-opened the disk file, Mozilla still crashed. It's the first time I have this kind of problems with Mozilla, and I'm not amused for it to happen on *slashdot*.
This comment brought to you by konqueror.
> At the busiest time of the year for those
> districts, Microsoft is demanding that they
> conduct an internal software audit to "certify
> licensing compliance." In a March letter, the
> software giant gave Portland Public Schools
> 60 days to inventory its 25,000 computers.
To me, this sounds like Microsoft is threatening to have its goons "audit" the school at a time when the school probably can't afford the staff to do the audit.
> Ah, but wait. Microsoft has an offer it thinks
> you can't refuse, if only to avoid the audit: the
> vaunted Microsoft School Agreement. Under
> the terms of this agreement, a school or
> district simply counts its computers and
> pays Microsoft somewhere in the
> neighborhood of $42 per machine for one
> systemwide annual license.
If the school can't afford the audit, they can pay Microsoft a yearly tribute to not audit them, but they lose access to the software once they stop paying. And they have to pay for even non-Microsoft computers, like iMacs.
> The school districts are considered guilty of
> software piracy until they can prove they're in
> licensing compliance. If the district can't
> drum up the staff to manage the inventory,
> Microsoft is willing to show up with its own
> audit crew, but if a single computer is found
> with illegal or undocumented software, the
> district must pay for the audit.
I wouldn't be surprised if once they get schools into this subscription idea, eventually the annual tribute for Microsoft software for Apple computers will be higher than that of Windows-based computers.
Man, someone should stop them before they become a monopoly!
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
"Innocent until proven guilty" is only valid for official cases, i.e. a criminal proceeding. This is at least how roman law operates. I'm not so sure about american law, but I'm guessing that Microsoft have included this statute in the EULA as for the audit. However, if they want to claim the money, and the school disagrees, this goes to civil proceedings....
I don't agree at all. School should not be the most expedient means of preparing their charges for the workforce.
Even if school is actually just to turn out a legion of docile sheep ready to submit to their supervisors (which does seem likely), do you actually think that someone who can use KDE is going to have more than 2 minutes of trouble figuring out winwhatever? The GUI changed from 95 to 98 to NT 4.0 to ME to XP. That doesn't seem to be a huge problem. And kids have less fear of tech than grownups, so a different UI is less stressful.
Do they have to get some sort of subpoena? before a judge? if so, how is it they seem to be able to get subpoenas easier than the fbi to bust into an arabs house?
Liberty.
For good or bad, most of these GUI environments are pretty much the same, as is the common software which runs in them. Click on the picture of a printer to print, click on the character in italic to change the font to italic, etc. It's not very difficult to made the adjustment, in my opinion. Figuring out which option is on what menu can be a pain, but that's what Help is for, no?
Besides, if other schools are like the ones local here, all they're teaching is basic stuff that most kids could figure out in an hour or so if the needed to: word processing, spreadsheet basics, etc. Kids come into schools knowing how to use a mouse and keyboard and even if they don't it takes less than a day to teach them. I don't see a real threat to their 'competitive advantage' if they go to a school using Macs or Linux boxes in place of Windows.
The more I keep dealing with computers, the more it resembles a bad redneck romance: constantly flipping between "I love you so much!" and "Baby, why you gotta make me hit you?"
The article cites 25,000 users and MS is offering the software for $500,000
That is $20 a copy. Deal with it or switch to linux. Yup, those horrible horrible businessmen
I guess you missed the part where they said this is an ANUAL FEE.. Every year the school will have to cough up half a mill to MS for licensing fees.. This is for PC's they already have lifetime licenses for but they don't have the time or resources to prove it.. Just having the fancy little scrap of paper isn't good enough either.. They want invoices to prove it was payed for too.
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
After all, what better things could a school district spend $500,000 dollars on than identical copies of software licenses? Teachers salaries? Teaching materials? Lab equipment? Naw, it'd all just go to waste, but those microsoft licenses will last a lifetime.... right?
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
"Due to unforseen 'computers in education' expenses, we have to cancel the field trip to the amuzement park control room and the Box Factory this year..." Actually that IS quite educational - not only do they take several years experience with Msft products with them into the workplace, but also experience with what happens when your business doesn't track licenses properly. Just another line item in the TCO.
Well, they took the free crack, now they are addicted and have to pay the only local dope dealer..
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I just emailed the author of the article and I'm going to try to get in touch with the heads of the information department at the districts in Portland and Beaverton. I'm willing to donate my time and expertise to help them migrate systems where possible.
If anyone else in the Portland metro area is interested, send email to linux-school[at]zerog.net
It would be great to be able to line up a team of people to do migrations / training / auditing. I think there are few reasons why the district couldn't switch a majority of their machines over, leaving only the Windows machines that they absolutely require.
If nothing else, you have the opportunity to possibly reduce your tax burden, both as a resident, and as a deduction for your time.
Why does M$ get the right to set an arbitrary timeframe, and what keeps the schools from hiring some, shall we say, wildly inaccurate (and cheap!) auditing firm to audit their machines?
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
HAHAHAHA, thats funny.
Just go to your local school district, and say "Hi, would you like me to install linux on all your computers, for free?"
They will not want you to. Almost every compsci teacher in a highschool is either
a. convinced there is nothing but microsoft
b. anything but microsoft/apple is illegal
c. Linux is evil
d. Linux is hard
Trust me, I've tried. I brought up linux with the computer teacher at my school, and he said "is that that OS those freakin long haired geeks out in Colorado came up with?!"
I finally did get a full lab setup this year, cause I'm now the tech dude, but no one wants to use it. I made it extremly simple, huge netscape icon, and all they use it for is web surfing. From what I hear it is that the teachers are just to unfamiliar with it.
And don't even think about trying to reteach a teacher. Everyone I've ever tried to teach something to just stares blankly at me like "I didn't become a teacher to learn more shit, go the fuck away!" and either they ignore you, they forget, and the rare few that likes it do come along, but its rare.
Wouldn't it be neat to have this as a challenge to install Linux?
Likely the school board probably already has the $500K earmarked to come from somewhere. The education of kids is too important, that's why the convicted monopolist is pulling the shenanigans.
So instead of having bake sales, why not get the communities together to do installfests? If they can get the computers changed over in 60 days, then the schools get to keep the money, albeit in a different PTA account.
Perhaps a template can be designed at Sourceforge that allows for a mass CVS action of doing the installs (keeping track of the installs and the problem computers and etc).
It's reminiscent of the bind MS's big corporate customers are finding themselves in with the new Enterprise Agreements and their requirements for current software.
Microsoft may not be the last organization on earth to which I wish to give a blank check, but they're close enough.
This is going to be a total rant, but here goes.
This time they have gone too far. I live here in Oregon and have three kids in public schools. I work for a state agency which, like many other state agencies in Oregon is undergoing significant budget cuts.
Portland is a bit of a drive for me, but I am seriously thinking about taking some time off and volunteering to go up there and help them audit machines, wipe hard drives, and install Linux clients or whatever they need. In fact, anyone else who wants to do the same could join me in emailing them here or maybe the help desk here.
Put your money/time where your mouth is.
How much of what you learned in high school have you carried with you into Post College days? Into your career? Be realistic.
I was one of the VERY few folks fortunate enough to actually have a mini-computer at my high school in the 80's. The fact that I was introduced to Unix without all the scary BS that the media presents about steep learning curves and other such tripe has helped considerably. The child user will NOT be restrained by learning the more complex model of computing before learning windows. With the pace of computing being what it is, I would say that the unwashed, undereducated masses that *gasp* learned Unix instead of Windows would indeed be far better off for the experience, since the unix model has a tendency to be much more applicable to the real world 5 years from now. As it stands, learning windows 200x gains you nothing, since the 'Experience' will change in 2 years anyway, and the programming model along with it.
This is an observation gleaned from watching several major employers grope their way back to Unix after disasterous ERP/large package attempts on Win2000/SQL Server. Ask any consultant, Windows rules! (heh, at 400$ an hour for cleanup fees).
Oh and BTW, knowing how to use excel does not mean you can do anything meaningful with it. I've seen way to many MBA assholes who are 'excel wizards' but have no idea how a business runs. Pretty graphs and powerpoint presentations do not a business make. Down there, wayyy down in the core of most systems, you'll usually find Unix systems. I know this, it's my job.
My gripe here is if folx were faced with actually having to learn anything along the way, everyone's life would be easier. IT gets better users, Management gets... better users. Technology gets easier to implement, etc.
On the other hand, the problem of who will teach it is a bit more questionable...
Chitlenz
Imagination is the silver lining of Intelligence.
Something on this page is crashing Mozilla 0.9.9 every single time the page is viewed.
Konqueror has no problem with it. So far.
Great thought and I know of one such school that can use help. In Winter Haven, Florida a school is being built - all by volunteers. It is a 30,000 sq. ft. facility that has been under construction for three years. They hope to have it open for school in Fall '02.
Here is where we (you?) can help. They have cat5 pulled throughout the building, but none of it is punched down or connected to anything because they have no equipment yet. They need PC's, servers, punchdown racks, switches, and people to donate their time if they happen to be in the central Florida area.
If you have stuff or time to donate, please call Jim Durham at 863-299-1189 - he is the one leading the project.
And thanks.
My last employer put together a contract for a charter school a few years back for 25 workstations and a server (win95 / winnt), 4 printers and cd-server that never worked (but got hacked a few times). Total bid was about $80K ($55K for machines, $3K for our services and the rest for licensing). I remember thinking what a shame that so much was tied up in licensing (25 workstation licenses; plus Office; plus the 50-user NT license.)
If the licensing had been a little more reasonable, the school would have been able to afford more of our services and we probably would have been able to make their network more useful as a result. I ended up spending a couple hundred hours of my own over a couple years to help nurse things along, but I recall thinking that if the school licensing had been given to the school, they could have gotten a lot more value out of it. Also, since most of the 300, or so students were entering the business world in a few years, having them trained in M$ tools would have been great for the software vendor.
It's too bad M$ doesn't take a different approach to licensing for schools. It would be a great tax write-off and would further proliferation of M$-based skillsets to further promote their software in businesses, where these youths would eventually wind up. Not to mention a much better PR message than this article sends. I hope people consider things like this when the Bill and Melissa Gates foundation offers token contributions for their pet projects. A little perspective....
www.dedserius.com
VB != VisualBasic
Maybe they are in such financial hardships because of stuff like this:
Quote:
What would it cost Portland Public Schools, which is already facing a $36 million shortfall, to sign that Microsoft School Agreement?
"A rough number? $500,000," Robinson said, "which translates, roughly, into 10 teaching positions."
The way I do math:
25,000 computers times ~$42 apiece equals just over a Million $
If this guy under-budgets everything by half, no wonder they are in the hole so much.
eggs in one basket. This is why the government has traditionally tried to keep from using 1 specific company for all of their materials in one area. Imagine if the problem were made even worse and M$ decided to use thier market dominance to enforce a political policy. We would then no longer have a government being run by our elected officials, but a government being controlled by one company (in this case M$).
To make a much simpler comparison, imagine that the military purchased all of their bullets from a company somewhere in the middle-east...
Now some would say that our government is already controlled by the corporations, but I refuse to belive that.
Example, Best Buy in particular is guilty of this, especially around X-Mas. The theft detection thing constantly goes off. In most cases the people who set it off stand around and wait for an employee to waive them through, sometimes after checking their reciept sometimes not. I personally refuse to stop and have my bag searched because some acne scarred teenager was too busy daydreaming to properly clear my dvd's.
Around here, CompUsa takes this to an extreme, every person walking out of the store has his/her bag checked against the reciept. This really irritates me, because it's inconvenient and at that point the money has changed hands, that product is mine. I don't feel I need to be subjected to their draconian anti-theft measures. And I'm not sure that there's a thing they can do about it if I refuse. Other than ban me from the store.
The question of shoplifters isn't exactly black and white, in MD at least, you cannot be convicted of shoplifting while still inside the store (though this may have changed slightly), so you can put something up your shirt, but until you walk out of the store it's not stealing. Once you are out of the store, however, it is. But a clerk in a store has no legal right to do anything to you once you're off the stores premises. Other than to follow you, they cannot attempt to restrain you in any way, even if you were actually stealing.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
If this isn't blackmail and anti-competitive, I don't know what is.
My son and daughter go to Washington county schools. My daughters classroom has a dozen or so assorted PC's. Most look like the licensing fee would be more than each computer is worth. And I would bet not one of them could run XP! It took 7 months for the parking lot to be repaved after it was torn up. Her teacher teaches both 4 and 5 graders in a combined class. Her school just does not have the budget to spend on Microsoft. My sons middle school seems to have faired better but by no means is any of the equipment state of the Art. If there is anyone from Washington county schools out there that needs a hand removing Windows from their systems, I'd be glad to help if I knew who to ask!
Another option is to use 'plain text' instead of HTML. Then when you hit enter you get line breaks, similar to notepad. (now you all know why I only copy/paste links instead of using HTML for them :P)
"Derp de derp."
Alternatively, you could tell them to call the cops, stand there until they arrive, and make your case to the officer (or if he also disagrees, to a judge, in which case you would have the right to an attorney and so forth). Chances are this is too much of a pain in the ass for both parties so you voluntarily forfeit some rights to get on with your life.
The burden of proof is always on the accuser.
Of significant interest is the fact that a significant majority of these schools are experimenting with using Linux.
That piece of information is significant, and it has significantly demonstrated that Linux has make significant inroads into the significant K12 markets.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Terminal servers are aimed at the same market, so naturally the marketroids have stolen the "thin client" jargon. But it's a totally different technology. Whoever invented the LTSP acronym knew this -- let's all emulate him or her.
And if you actually read the page you pointed to, you discover its not a distro either. Which is actually a good thing, since you can combine it with a distro to run it on a variety of platforms. Hmm, should work with my 386, 486, and Sparcstation doorstops. I should maybe configure it, then donate the result to some public library where they have long lines of people waiting to use the Web machines.
It's been noted in the past that Microsoft and other big companies (Auto-Cad) often just randomly send out audit notices in hopes of scareing you into a confession (either going out and buying licenses [hence making you guilty] or else calling them).
damn
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
>Whatever happened to the concept of 'Innocent until proven guilty'?
It never applied to civil matters.
"Preponderance of Evidence" is the doctrine at
work in a civil case.
All you have to do to win a civil case is to persuade
a judge and/or jury that the facts are more probably
one way than the other.
Burden of proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, and
"presumption of Innocence" only apply to criminal
cases.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
You're assuming that the district is guilty which is just a moronic assumption to begin with. So the school is faced with extortion. Spend money preparing for this audit, not to mention the inconvenience of it, or just send up $500,000. Let me clue you in. MS is not the police, they have no right to this type of activity, case closed.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
"I wonder if someone could challenge this 'right to audit' in court. A comment in the earlier story on the GPL [slashdot.org] mentioned possible contract problems with license terms that you cannot read until you open or install the software.
sadly, that's the rough equivalent of pissing up a rope
the "Contracting Entity", in this case the School District is responsible for being aware (and proactively enforcing) of ALL requirements of a contractual agreement, in this case the EULA....
Worse yet, unlike an individual user, they are considered to be in complete "control" of the software at ALL times...
so, if you or i as end-users leave a copy of a S/W product out at home and the baby sitter dupes it, it would be nearly impossible for a s/w mfgr to get legal sanctions against us...(though they COULD revoke our license and take the s/w away)
not so a multi-user licensed corporate environment...
if Jane Blow HATES Office 2009 and brings in her own copy of Office 97 into work and installs it, and it gets copied to a few other machines...GUESS WHAT
...the emmployer will have to pay (fines + license) for ALL the copies of Jane's s/w as well...
"Especially troubling is that MS seems to picking on organizations without much money to defend themselvs in court..."
Careful now, even smaller municipal entites like a School District have LOTS of legal services available to them.....EVEN IF they'd rather spend it elsewhere
I'm more fascinated that Ballmer, who is one very smart cookie, would allow a "bad press" item like this to go forward while the Antitrust Trial is still ongoing..."picking on" a school district is a GUARANTEE of bad vibes, and you would think MS would be trying to lower the volume on the "Borg" stories...
and most especially, with Bill on the Witness Stand, this type of thing will NOT endear them to the Courts when all their competitors are claiming what hardballers they are....
It shows that they are clearly "forces" at work in MS that are NOT completely in touch with what's happening in the "Real World"
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
I was a student sysadmin/techie for four years at Franklin High Schoolin Portland, OR, along with a few other students and one hired admin. I also was involved in a student union, and we knew about the funding problems: $20 million in the hole in this budget, if I remember correctly. Another $500,000 will mean even fewer teachers, when we have been losing teachers already.
/now/!" or little help messages from teachers like "the box is missing, come fix it [ed. note: that's the computer!]"). Making our computers use Linux would have been with quite a bit of dissatisfaction on the part of the teachers. Existing operating systems needed to be reinstalled about once a year depending on their use, but other than that didn't require much adminning or much knowledge on the part of the users. We few Linux/BSD users didn't have time to teach about CAB to kill frozen X or training people to log out or train other techies to handle linux troubles (we had about 8 mac/windows techies at FHS, with maybe two really proficient in linux/bsd). It really requires a full-time sysadmin, at least for every couple of schools. This does not exist. We used to be special at Franklin because we had a part-time admin. We don't have a dedicated admin at Franklin any more. We were already just scraping by on Mac/Windows maintenance, and I think a Linux or BSD network would be impossible now.
However, to those of you saying "Just use Linux," I tried. You know what, administering classroom Linux systems is hard. I was working on a X terminal Linux (then FreeBSD) network at Da Vinci middle school for over a year. It had to be X terminals because the little machines couldn't handle it. The staple computer at FHS is the P166 with 16MB RAM from CTL ("Crap Technology for Losers," as it was called), the middle school had some machines even worse. These machines can handle Office or IE on win95. They couldn't handle X with Netscape/Mozilla or StarOffice. With a server running the programs it was almost usable. However, we didn't have automounted floppy drives working, sometimes samba was flakey, sometimes people would have troubles opening netscape (it was _slow_) or something else happened. The teacher I was working with was really interested and excited, but didn't have the proficiency to be a sysadmin. I didn't have the time to be it, after spending my days at Franklin.
A number of teachers at a school can do basic Windows repair, but paid admins rarely stay at a school for more than a couple of years. The warm fuzzies of working for the public schools did not make up for the lack of pay or the crap they had to put up with ("I need you
Under the new Sun liscensing all schools get Star Office for free- so I am very sure that Sun would be more than happy to give you several CD's with their best copy of SOffice 6 on it :-)
Derek
"1.To take (the property of another) without right or permission. "
Yes, asshole, as in M$ STEALING US tax dollars by forcing schools to submit to audits and prove their innocence, when such is impossible; as in forcing schols to pay money to MS for machines which don't even have MS OS on them, or which can't (as in iMacs and PowerMacs).
Fuckwit.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I know that many of us have access to those little license certificates that microsoft bundles with their software. Maybe we could gather up enough of them to pass audits. We could rent out the entire collection of licenses to whoever is getting audited at the time for a fraction of the cost of actual licenses..
this sig is deprecated
The author pictured in the title story looks a lot like Mike Holgram. Who just so happens to coach the Seattle Seahawks.. Coincedence? I don't think so. Looks like MS marketing screwed up with a 6th day violation.. ;)
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Actually, in Maryland you can be convicted of shoplifting, but they have to have pretty good evidence. (i.e., you stuffed a canned ham down your pants. More than likely, you weren't planning to pay for it) And, also, they can take action against you as long as you are on store property, including the parking lot. I have a good friend who works as security for a store in the mall, and the entire mall is considered that store's property, so he's allowed to tear off after people and chase them through the mall if necessary.
I defy anyone with even a passing familiarity with Windows to not figure out this desktop in a heartbeat. It's so much like XP it's scary. Basically what Lycoris Linux does is use their own theme and turn KDE into a very convincing clone of XP. If they added Open Office 6 to the picture it would be even more like XP+Office.
/ (support site)
A power user might not like how one's favorite little Linux app might be missing, but Lycoris is based on Caldera and Caldera RPMs should be fine.
Get a disk set and spread it around...
http://www.lycoris.com/
http://www.lycoris.org
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Its poor management, or total knowledge and internal admittence that they have such a large monopoly over most markets that they can carry out bully tactics like this.
However, keep this up and it won't be Linux/Mac that causes Microsoft's downfall, it will be themselves for being so *evil*. Its bad policy to piss so many clientale off.
StarTux
"What's good for Microsoft is good for America!"(tm)
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
It's my impression that the often friendly, affable-if-nerdy face of Mr. Gates does hide a darker side, one which has more disdain for the little guy than the PR suggests, i.e. "we're providing what the customer wants, why is that so wrong?" I think we see where it actually ends up.
As far as switching from Microsoft to something, I expect Apple would be easier than Linux, for two reasons.
1. Not all school computer use is classroom, administration relies heavily on wordprocessors, spreadsheets, and various canned software packages, which Linux has a start on, but not as well as Apple.
2. Educational programs are plentiful between Mac and PC, not so plentiful for Linux. It should be motivation for those who are OpenSource/GPL enthusiasts or evangelists to actually create, but it's easier to be an armchair quarterback.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The BSA and Microsoft.
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The tactics used by Microsoft and the Business Software Association (BSA) in the name of the fight against software piracy directly hurt the consumer, Microsoft's competitors and even society in general.
Microsoft has been found guilty of abusing its dominant position in the marketplace to the detriment of its competitors and the consumer.
The Business Software Assocation (BSA), quoting from its webpage, was formed to act
http://www.bsa.org/intnatl/about.phtml
+ As the "voice" of the software industry, we help governments and
+consumers understand how software strengthens the economy, worker
+productivity and global development; and how its further expansion
+hinges on the successful fight against software piracy and
+Internet theft.
The BSA includes a few large software and computer companies in its offical memberships.
http://www.bsa.org/intnatl/memberco
+ BSA worldwide members include Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bentley
+Systems, Borland, CNC Software/Mastercam, Macromedia, Microsoft,
+Symantec, and Unigraphic Solutions. Additional members of BSA's
+Policy Council include Compaq, Dell, Entrust, IBM, Intel, Intuit,
+Network Associates, Novell, and Sybase.
Both the BSA and Microsoft are also actively running a worldwide campaign to fight software piracy. It is some of the tactics used in this campaign and the relationship between Microsoft and the BSA management which is being used by Microsoft to reinforce its monopoly. This is hurting the rest of the computer industry including some of the same companies in the BSA membership.
Other tactics, including the targeting ex-employees for informants and the offering of bounties to informants is directly harmful to the employer-employee relationship and society in general.
You or your employer may have received an email or letter from Microsoft or the BSA, or outside of NZ you may have heard the BSA's radio adverts. It's also likely that either of the above may have raised a little concern, even from the most lawful of people. The BSA can even get a court order, sometimes based on the accusation of an individual and with the help of federal marshals enter your home or place of work to gather evidence. The BSA can collects fees of up to $150,000US for every unregistered software program installed on an organizations computers. What if some unlicensed software is installed on the owners computer without their knowledge?
It is not that Microsoft or any other company should not have the right to protect its copyrighted products from "piracy". However the tactics used must also not be abused by Microsoft or the BSA to the detriment of the consumer or society.
There will be those arguing in the BSA's and Microsoft's favor who will try to paint this solely as a pure black and white issue - guilty or not guilty of software piracy and theft. BUT, by the same reasoning Microsoft's own executives should also face imprisonment for breaching the Sherman Antitrust Act.
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/foia/divisionmanual/ch
+SHERMAN ANTITRUST ACT, 15 U.S.C. 1-7
+
+ 1 Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. 1
+
+Trusts, etc., in restraint of trade illegal; penalty
+
+Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or
+conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several
+States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal. Every
+person who shall make any contract or engage in any combination or
+conspiracy hereby declared to be illegal shall be deemed guilty of
+a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine
+not exceeding $10,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other
+person, $350,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding three years, or
+by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court.
The "discretion of the court" would take into consideration the issue of intent on the part of Microsoft's management. In the same way should the BSA, Microsoft and the courts take the issue of intent into consideration when dealing with some particular cases of software "piracy".
Tracking licenses is difficult and even if it does its best, any organization cannot be guaranteed to be 100% correct all the time. Computers are moved, repaired, upgraded, replaced and even cannibalized into other computers. It is not made any easier with one of the requirements of the BSA audits being that, along with valid licenses, you mustpresent purchase documentation to prove ownership. Presenting enough valid licenses to cover all of the copies installed on the computers in the organization used should be sufficient. Although maintaining purchase documentation is necessary for tax purposes, matching documentation to each computer is difficult and time consuming. Should the BSA have the same powers as the IRS?
The larger and more diverse the organization, the more difficult, time consuming and expensive it can be to perform a full audit of the software running on all computers. So when presented with the options of
a) Undergoing an audit from the BSA, which might turn up anything
installed without the managements knowledge; OR
b) Signing up to the purchase of all new versions of software
and a special license.
The latter option is often the only choice, even when the new license, software and required computer hardware upgrades is far more expensive than the existing setup.
Many organization have already received emails and letters from Microsoft offering the exact same choice. The problem for Microsoft's customers and competitors is that the contracts often either replaces competing software vendors products or locks in the customer to Microsoft's software preventing competition.
This Mojo article shows an example of replacement of Novell's servers, a company who is also a member BSA. The article also explains why many software vendors and customers remain silent on the issue.
http://www.motherjones.com/mother_jones/J
This Linuxworld article explains how the new contracts can lockout other vendors. "Why Austin TX is considering a Microsoft enterprise license"
http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2001/082
+There is an insidious aspect to a citywide, multi-year plan. It
+locks users into Microsoft products only. While the Enterprise
+Agreement doesn't specifically prohibit the use of other products,
+effectively it does. It's logical to assume that if you're paying
+for MS Exchange for three years why allow a department to consider
+an alternative. (Microsoft makes hay of this point in a
+Word-formatted white paper extolling the Enterprise Agreement.)
What Microsoft or the BSA is doing would not necessarily be illegal if Microsoft was not a monopoly, but as the Antitrust division of the US Department Of Justice (DOJ) informs us...
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/ipgu
+As in other antitrust contexts, however, market power could be
+illegally acquired or maintained, or, even if lawfully acquired
+and maintained, would be relevant to the ability of an
+intellectual property owner to harm competition through
+unreasonable conduct in connection with such property.
Microsoft have been found in breach of the Sherman act for using similar pressure on OEMs ( Original Equipment Manufactures ), including Compaq and Dell, to select Microsoft's products over competitors.
From the U.S. Court of Appeals opinion issued June 28
( You can grab a copy of the PDF file from
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/themi
)
Page 28
+In evaluating the restrictions in Microsofts agreements
+licensing Windows to OEMs,we first consider whether plaintiffs
+have made out a prima facie case by demonstrating that the
+restrictions have an anticompetitive effect.In the next
+subsection,we conclude that plaintiffs have met this burden as to
+all the restrictions.We then consider Microsofts proffered
+justifications for the restrictions and,for the most part,hold
+those justifications insufficient.
Just as Microsoft was "levering" OEMs to stop installing competing vendors products, Microsoft is using the threat of a BSA audit to "lever" end customers into choosing Microsoft's products overcompeting vendors. Why should the end customers be subjected to the same tactics?
Worldwide, many of the governmental federal, state and local organizations that your tax dollars pay for have already been "levered" into new long term enterprise license schemes.
Any organization that have already felt pressured to sign up to the new license agreements because of such threats should be given the option at anytime during the contract period, for all or individual groups of computers, to either
a) Continue the contract until it's competition; OR
b) Terminating the contract and renegotiate with Microsoft for
a new contract without threat of an audit from the BSA; OR
c) Terminate the contract, removing all the software from the
computer and receive a refund from Microsoft in direct
proportion to the time remaining on the contract; OR
d) Unbundle and remove selected packages from the computer
and receive a refund from Microsoft in direct proportion
to both the time remaining on the contract AND the retail
cost of the individual package.
For organizations facing threats of audit, now or in the future, a way must be provided to ensure that they can come into compliance without being forced into new license agreements.
Even when being audited by the IRS, you are given an opportunity to pay for a shortfall, plus sometimes a percentage penalty. In the same way, if facing a license audit, an alternative arrangement for some cases of "piracy" might be more equitable to both consumer and vendor.
Where the problem is an excess of installations, any organization or individual should have the option to purchase extra licenses, at the same price at which they purchased the original software, WITHOUT having to be forced into renegotiating the arrangement with the software vendor.
Where the problem is software installed and is in active use, that the organization or individual has never purchased any licenses for, then the vendor should expect to be paid the current market price per each unit installed. PLUS if knowledge and intent by the individuals or management can be proved then by all means a reasonable penalty should be charged.
In both above cases the vendor should also be expected to be reimbursed for the use of that software over the time it was installed, but only in close proportion to the average return on investment ( Inflation + 3% )
Per package = Original_Price
+ ( Original_Price * Average_Return_on_Investment
/ 12 * Months_installed )
The certainty of the above scheme would greatly improve the public relations between the customers, BSA and software vendors. Organizations and individuals would also be far less reticent over voluntarily going back to the software vendors and purchase extra licenses, to avoid penalties, without the hassle of negotiation or fear of being targeted for future BSA audits.
Those arguing in the BSA's and Microsoft's favor who try to paint this solely as a pure black and white issue, guilty or not guilty of software piracy and theft, should remember Microsoft's own executives facing imprisonment for breaching the Sherman Antitrust Act.
This is not an excuse for "wholesale" software piracy. Any organization or individual who is knowingly distributing illegal copies of proprietary software to individuals or organizations to be installed outside the original organization, without the vendors consent, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
There is another particular tactic used by the BSA which is directly harmful to the employer-employee relationship and society in general -- the targeting ex-employees for informants and the offering of bounties to informants.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,54324
+The group is promoting the program in radio advertisements. In
+them, Bob Kruger, the group's vice president of enforcement, says
+the BSA is looking for disgruntled employees to identify possible
+infringements and turn in their employers.
+
+"Most of the calls come from current or former employees," he says
+in the radio ad, which is airing in each respective city. It can
+also be heard on the BSA's Web site.
http://www.bsa.org/uk/press/newsreleases/2001-0
+BSA strongly advises company directors to take the time to set up
+and implement a software policy - especially bearing in mind the
+ 10,000 reward their employees could receive from the BSA for
+information leading to a successful settlement."
This is just too open to abuse by disgruntled employees, disgruntled ex-employees and even the disgruntled competition. It is just too easy for an employees or anyone to walk in and install unlicensed software on a few computers and call in an accusation to the BSA. The whole thing creates a climate of fear and is a throwback to the worst excesses of the old soviet regimes.
One simliar scheme,...
http://www.aaxnet.com/news/M010425.html
... in which Microsoft offered prizes to the employees of OEMs that notified it when corporate customers ordered PCs without its Windows operating systems, was quickly discontinued Microsoft.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busines
+But Microsoft spokesman Matt Pilla said the program was "a
+super-brief pilot program that was admittedly stupid but
+absolutely didn't share information" with law enforcers.
If it was "stupid" to offer just prizes, how much more stupid is it to offer thousands in reward.
Additional news articles and editorials on the BSA.
"Risky Business
Tangling with the Business Software Alliance can mean big problems"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.
"BSA's and Microsoft's scare tactics target small fish in big-city
ponds"
http://www.infoworld.com/articl
"Microsoft to schools: Give us your lunch money!"
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/0
"BSA's truce campaigns"
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/
Good coverage of the Antitrust case against Microsoft
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/
[ I would like to thank "Erik Funkenbusch" for his invaluable
assistance in hardening the argument in the above article ]
Except now anti-lottery people are painted as anti-education since the budget now totally depends on the lottery. And the rest of the lottery proceeds? Well, they went into this giant slush fund...
Okay, at the risk of sounding pedantic, go back and read the article.
Microsoft has essentially said, "J'accuse. You have unlicensed software. Either audit all your 25,000 PCs in the next sixty days (by the way, that's about 17 computers an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 60 days), or have us do it. If we do it, and find one - count 'em, one - computer out of compliance, you pay for the software you owe, plus the cost of the audit."
Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that they're fully in compliance with the licenses, with the exception of one PC some shmuck donated to them last week. Doing the audit is an impossibility for them. If Microsoft does it and finds the one PC, they pay (through the nose) for the audit.
Plus, it's not like Microsoft had specific reason to believe that these guys were out of compliance: the "random" audit, according to the article, targets "the nine largest school districts in Oregon and the 15 largest in Washington."
If a cop busts down your neighbor's door, you don't say "serves him right for stealing people's stuff," until they demonstrate that, you know, the neighbor actually stole something. Don't do it here.
Installation is not the important bit here. You also have to help them _maintain_ their installation. Installing Linux on machines does more harm than good if:
1. The teachers don't know how to use it, and no one shows them, so the students don't use it either.
2. It goes out of date and gets cracked (or is just, well, out of date...)
Setting up a group of students to take care of this sort of thing is problematic, because students generally tend to graduate (and leave). You have to make certain that there's something in place to maintain what you install so that it's actually useful.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Is this Microsoft's first step into opening a line of private schools?
That's a scary thought: Microsoft manages to set the public school system back eighty years, then offers the middle and upper-middle classes an educational alternative that promotes the Microsoft Way...
Boy, I'm glad I'm not paranoid because that would be a very scary future.
He looked at me and said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."
slashdot.org& lt;/A> [slashdot.org]
Okay there are two problems I see. ONE per the law MS has the right to seek compensation for people using their product. While people might not agree with that law it's still the law (change it if you want). TWO because the schools in question didn't keep track of their paperwork on these machines licensing they are crying foul saying somehow that it's MS's fault and that they don't have the time/resources to track everything down or do the research to avoid an audit. How many times did I hear "no excuses" from my teachers when I misplaced my paperwork for an assignment or didn't get into the class I wanted because my paperwork wasn't "filled out properly". Now the roll is reversed.
Personally I think that schools are miserably mismanaged. Quite a few of the people managing the school systems are teachers with no real experience in management or business. A teacher becomes a good teacher and therefore the next step must be Principal and after principal it must be Superindendant, despite the fact that the teacher might not have any management or supervisory skills whatsoever. I see the same thing in most businesses, they take the best customer service rep and make him/her the supervisor or manager even though that person doesn't know anything about management or how to properly train and motivate their staff.
Start hiring managers and supervisors, stop wasting money on people who don't do the job the right way or get them training to do it right. Do we need to outsource the management of schools to the private sector. Start state programs for the purchase of software and hardware and let the state pool resources to help administer and maintain the systems and keep track of the paperwork. In the end it would probably reduce costs IF DONE PROPERLY.
I live in a state with sales tax, personal property taxes, real estate tax, gambling, income tax and still for some reason my son has to get involved in 3 or 4 fundraisers a year in first grade. Why? I think someone needs to go down the big list of priorities and start rechecking things.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Microsoft's School Agreement 3.0 (Word doc of course)
iteresting bit is that you must pay for all eligible machines, if they run microsoft software or not:
"School Agreement requires an institution-wide commitment. To that end, you must include all of the eligible PCs in the participating school(s) or district. Eligible PCs include all of the Pentium machines, Power Macs, iMacs or better. You must also include any number of 486 machines or below and any Apple, UNIX, or Windows Terminals on which any of the software will be run."
So if you sign up, then move to something else, you still gotta pay.
Not sure if you pay per package installed (i.e. do you pay for Windows OS on iMac's?)
It's too bad the school system can't file for Chapter (11?) bankruptcy, to clear themselves of all that debt, and just 'restructure'.
Take That Evil Bill! :)
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Help build the first all-Linux school system. Maybe ask Red Hat for some support.
Microsoft once again makes a miscalculation. This has the potential of backfiring big time. When Microsoft starts messing with public schools they're messing with one of the foundations of American culture and more importantly they are messing with our children.
In a civil case people on juries have preconceived ideas about defendants. Right or wrong, people generally place schools in the "good" category. Microsoft will come off looking like a complete ogre.
Many of the computers our poor, under funded schools have come from donated computers. Many of these computers came with no documentation and no original software CDs. By Microsoft's own licensing agreement binds the operating system license to a particular PC. If the person who donated the PC kept the original CDs, the computer still has a license.
These schools need to make this an issue. They need to make sure that it becomes news. Microsoft will be forced to back down or die in the public opinion. After that I would recommend that the schools fdisk every single computer that they own and install Linux.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
MS would do themselves a HUGE favor but just giving their software to schools. When the government wants to talk anti-trust, they could simply play the school card, and show them that well, yes, maybe we played a little rough...but Johnny can run Windows at no charge in the classroom. "Hans, buubie, I'm your white knight"....and the antitrust charges go away. Get a clue Bill, how much money is enough anyway??
I suspect that Portland Schools are screwed. However, all the other school systems in the U.S. have to be taking notice. They will have the time to make appropriate decisions about their machines, hopefully including the installation of Linux and the removal of all MS crap. But it's too bad that Portland has to pay the price for the upcoming revolt against MS.
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
I don't know why everyone complains about Microsoft. They're certainly doing their part to promote Linux. I wonder whose product MS's marketing thinks their promoting?
I think that would be a good news story
So Microsoft warns schools not to accept PCs without proof of Microsoft ownership (yes, I meant to phrase it that way), and forces them to sign ongoing license agreements or face even more expensive and disruptive audits.
Oh, and to make up for some of their anti-competitive acts, they're going to donate PCs with Microsoft software to schools. I wonder if they'll turn around and threaten the "lucky" schools.
Microsoft may convert more schools to free and open source software than RMS, ESR, BP, and LT put together.
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
I hear stories about Fry's something about requiring all sorts of id when using a credit card? If I'm ever near one, I'm going to load up, and try and use a credit card. If they hassle me about it, I'll let them put all of the merchandise back themselves. My school used to constantly hassle people over check cards. I used to argue with them constantly, the whole point of Visa check card commercials was that you WOULDN'T need id.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
The schools basically rely on the teachers to "admin" these windows boxen, so what happens when the teachers no longer have the ability to keep the linux boxen running properly. I would assume it would at least take a little while until they were capable.
lets say that a sufficient amount of teachers needed to do this job, could find the spare time from their teaching to learn it all in 1 year...
how many unix admins would you need for 25,000 boxen, i assume that first year admin bill would be pretty hefty
This is VERY VERY true. There is an app called RegMon It is basically a tail -f of Win registry hits. If you run this app (or a similar one), run it and go to WindowsUpdate (with IE of course... :-)). You will be afraid.
You'll see your full (registered) name, product ID, unique ID's, everthing about your machine and you being accessed by the prompt that says "No personal information is being sent to Microsoft".
Seriously. Try it.
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
Agree to our new license, or we'll send someone around to bust your kneecaps.
Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
IANAL, but, I've heard that people who have copyrights have to defend them if they want to hold onto them. Same thing for trademarks. Or maybe it was just trademarks. Basically, it amounts to the fact that if you do nothing to defend your rights, you don't have those rights.
Microsoft has done nothing meaningful in the past to prevent piracy of their software. They, along with everyone else dropped copy protection on the software. Fine, consumers wanted that. But, on the Macintosh side we see vendors all the time make their software AWARE of other copies of it running on the network. When I install Photoshop TWICE using the SAME registration code, it complains when that second copy is running at the same time. Since my users need to run it simultaneously, I need to purchase a second copy (or disconnect a user from the network...which isn't viable.)
Microsoft, if they really wanted to prevent piracy, would have done the SAME THING. They would have made their applications network aware and they would have checked to see if a second copy was running somewhere. If they had done this, there would not be piracy in the corporate, government, or academic environments to the extent there is today.
It is hard to keep track of every piece of software that an end-user might sneak into your company. Since Windows 9.x didn't have any security, you couldn't stop users from installing it. Because the applications weren't network aware, you wouldn't know when someone installed duplicate copies...not even when an administrator did it.
Because Microsoft did not take reasonable steps to prevent piracy, I think Microsoft should not have the right to force people to audit and payup. At least, not until such time as Microsoft plugs the holes that make piracy so easy.
Does anybody know what would happen if you simply "invited" Microsoft (or any other software supplier, for that matter)to get the hell off your property should they attempt to audit? I mean, what kind of teeth do they have?
Micro$oft is a private entity, much like an individual such as you or I. Thus, if they came to audit you and didn't have a search warrant and law enforcement officials with them, you would have every legal right to tell them to get the hell off your property. Think of it this way -- if some schmuck off the street decided that he wanted to go through each and every one of your computers and get the license #s off of them, what would you do? That's right, you would tell him to get the hell out before you filed trespassing charges on him. Micro$oft is no different; they are a private entity with NO legal right to perform law enforcement-type searches.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
I've seen a few people suggest that Microsoft has enough money to donate to schools, and even a few more have suggested that such a donation would actually help spread MS software. Keep in mind that this was one of Microsoft original proposals to settle the antitrust case, to donate $500 million worth of software to schools. How that such a settlement has apparently been rejected (and rightly so), MS can go after the schools with the excuse that "we wanted to donate software to the schools, but the government wouldn't let us".
I can't try it.
I've formatted my disk since I had Win98 on it. And I don't think I'll reinstall it just to find out bad news. Especially since the laws and licenses have changed in the way that initially caused me to switch to Linux.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Convert 100% of your machines to Linux. Tell MS to audit all they want... O, wnd btw if you find any liscences tell MS that you do not agree to the terms and want your money back.
Bill was whining again today that the propsed penalties will change how MS does business. Lets hope so.
Were I in the area instead of 1000 miles away I'd gladly volunteer to help install Linux. I wouldn't be willing to do very much with MS software, however. Those licenses are far too scarey.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Careful now, even smaller municipal entites like a School District have LOTS of legal services available to them.....EVEN IF they'd rather spend it elsewhere.
School districts in my region are lacking good textbooks for want of money; I find it hard to believe that they can hire the kind of tenacious lawyers that Microsoft can afford. Hell, they even wore down the DOJ in settlement talks by arguing every single point into the wee hours.
A school district defending against a suit by some local parents I can see, but a company with a big warchest might see an expensive legal battle as insurance for the future; if you legally batter one school district until they cannot afford to do anything but settle, most others will not risk it in the future.
I wish I had some free time to volunteer! Seriously though, Americans work more hours a week than any other country. And we have to give up more time? I can't wait for retirement!!!
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
A thought on how to keep MS at bay while you fix the situation:
.sig...
1. Switch all the PCs off.
2. Invite them in to do the audit.
3. If they ask you if a machine has Windows on, tell them no.
4. If they want to power up the machine, ask them how they intend to power it, as the school board doesn't sell or donate power to third parties.
5. If they want to take the PC away, point out the school policy on theft.
6. If they want to bring in a generator, point out the for safety reasons such equipment can't be used in school buildings.
7. If they want to remove the hard drive, point out the school policy on vandalism.
8. Goto 4.
By the time they've figured out how to see what's on the machine you can have Linux on a sufficient number that licenses will cover the rest!
Still haven't bothered with a
See The BSA & Microsoft Thread
I *did* just try it, then searched the log for my name, etc etc, and NOTHING of the sort was found in the log. Looks like they are actually serious about the no personal information part...better check your story.
I bet Steve Jobs has a smile on his face from ear to ear right now. Now, when Apple goes to a school and they say "well, Bob So-and-so from Microsoft offered us the same package for 20% less," they can pull out an article and say, "yes, but when one of your students installs a warez version of Visual Studio on a machine, we won't come in and ram it down your throat and steal your wallet."
I think it's great that the climate of mistrust for Microsoft grows every day. Little by little people are realizing Microsoft is the mafia of the Tech industry. They do their song and dance and you think they'll give you the world. But before you know it you realize they're squeezing the lifeblood out of your enterprise and forcing you to change the way you do business and eventually you've got a bullet in your back.
It doesn't matter if you hear it out loud, people are getting the message.
-Erik
"startx" -- geez, that was hard.
Although, a Unix set up for graphical login is not going to "bomb to the shell prompt" like you describe. This is a actually a well tested configuration that was working well when DOS based GUI's were a pleasant fantasy.
Internet security is no less an issue for WinDOS as it is for Linux. The same solutions apply and they are cheap and easy. They might even be in place already ($90 firewall box).
Also, "journaling" is another highly artificial issue. The WinDOS registry is considerably more prone to failures due to improper shutdown than is ext2fs. If a school would have such problems, they already have WORSE headaches with their current WinDOS systems.
You are simply talking out your ass.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I know, I know - don't feed the trolls, but:
:)
> AFAIK, no distro has a journaling FS by default.
Well, except for Mandrake (ext3?), SuSE (ReiserFS), and Red Hat (ext3). And we all know that NOBODY runs any of those.
(Do Debian and Slackware have a journaling FS on by default these days? I don't know, as I run mostly Red Hat.)
-- Rick
someone should mod the parent up... we don't get enough vigilante karma justice on /.
Amazing magic tricks
My walking off is not admitting guilt at all. You must not live in the U.S.. It's admitting that I'm not going to waste my time. Whether it's five seconds ro twenty minutes, I'm not going to bow down to some false authority.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
This is being discussed quite a bit on several of the Oregon LUGs. If you're in Oregon (or nearby) and would like to help, please join forces with one of these existing groups.
http://pdxlinux.org
http://lug.peak.org
http://www.euglug.org
Got any good cites for this?
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
They'd go to a judge, claim to have reason to believe that you might be illegally using their software, mention casually that they'd TRIED to find out nicely, but, that mean nasty CTO just yelled abuse at them and told them to go fuck themselves. The judge would nod sagely, grant a court order, and the auditors would show up again, only this time with armed federal agents. At least, that's how it generally goes down.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The one that compiles from source does too.. gentoo linux.
"'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
Now here's an interesting point. In essence, any time you purchase any MS software, you really need to factor in the cost of maintaining 100% license compliance. I figure (given how machines move around, etc.) that this has got to be at least $50-$100 per machine per year for the life of the machine. After all, that sort of 100% accurate record keeping does not come cheap. I wouldn't want to have 1 person handling more than 500 machines (imagine, he get's to track down exactly what software is on each machine that school has in closets, loaned to a teacher, moved to new lab, etc.!)
I suspect that if the price of software was put in those terms to schools any time they purchased Microsoft software, they might start seriously looking at alternatives. Compared to the base (education) software price, the compliance price might be many times higher.
Besides, what teacher wants to have the cost of the compliance agent subtracted from his budget each and every year?
I'm in the midst of running a Linux consulting service company in the Detroit area that focuses on schools and now to "de-Microsoft" them.
Many of the schools I've talked to love the idea of using a free & open operating system in their classes, but the thought of moving over to Linux "just becuase" is hard to sell.
Articles like these are the ammunition I need to show these schools the "light" and have them migrate over. If anyone has any articles like this one (involving schools) or good reference contacts I could use, please let me know! (see website for email addr.) I've done the Googling and found some good stuff, but it's always nice to get the word out.
-brain
Are you trying to imply that WinDOS doesn't have printer problems that a clueless teacher can't diagnose?
Support is no less an issue for WinDOS than it is for Linux. OTOH, it is remarkably easier to do remote tech support for Linux or Unix.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If I were a legislator in the soverign state of Oregon, I'd introduce legislation that recognizes audits made under these conditions as a form of extortion. Give the user 180 days, or when your auditors show up they're risking felony charges. Both sides can play hardball.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
This would be a perfect time for some large linux distribution company, or a consulting company to step in and donate time to help them migrate entirely to Linux. It would have to be a disruptive migration because of the audit in 60 days threat but they could do it.
Why not form The Linux Marines? We could get nifty bomber jackets, patches for our units, medals for each school we saved, and make a big fuss out of it.
All we need are a few distro disks and some good techs willing to fight the good fight.
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Modern Linux distributions are already "school friendly".
The only real catch might be resource usage. As another respondent has mentioned, school PCs are quite often very bottom of the barrel. They might only have 16M of RAM to work with. Short of turning such a machine into an xterminal, there's not much you can do with such a machine if you're using the like of StarOffice and KDE.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Doesn't Microsoft "donate" money to schools? If so, don't they receive tax relief for doing so? How can they then strong arm these school systems into paying back the money in licensing fees?
It seems like they can artifically bolster earnings by circulating money through donations.
Or maybe I know nothing...
What is the legal basis for these audits? I mean, can I just show up at your house and demand that you prove that your watch is in fact yours and that you didn't steal it from me, nor bought it from someone who stole it from me, nor bought it from someone who bought it from someome who stole it from me...?
Isn't a corporation's first and foremost responsibility to its shareholders?
Time's up!
GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY!!
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Throughout all the comments I see here, everyone just says, "Let's just switch these computers to Linux so they don't bother to pay them anymore", or "This is why they shouldn't rely on only one operating system". People in the school board really don't know of alternatives, sometimes you can even ask the System Administrators of schools who are just some honest, middle-aged workers who just recieved an MCSE who don't even know what Linux is.
Not only that, but I remember in Elementary School, there used to be that PTA night where Microsoft Employees come around to show products and encourage them as i've seen in one of the earlier comments.
Many kids may also be arrogant about how to get to programs they already know "I don't care about computers, as long as I go to Start>Programs>America Online that's what I'll use, would be what most teenagers would say. Not only are schools scared of change, but something like implementing Linux will take a a long time before it can be adopted by both teachers and students, so they may have documents sync well with AbiWord, Gnumeric, KPresenter and such.
While implementing Linux as a free solution giving schools more power over what they use the money for, it needs marketing and customer familiarity. Companies like Mandrake and Red Hat should just go out there and market as well as make their products a few steps closer to how aWindows looks and feels.
Granted, it's been close to a year since I've ran Win* at all, but last time I did (on 98, NT, and w2k), I saw my name, product ID and everything of that nture, go flying by. Why you didn't notice, I can not say. All I was here to say was that in my experience (a NetAdmin of about 70 or so machines, I've seen it on every one of them.
Every one.
Again, I can't say why you're not seeing this, but I've seen it with every OS (minus 3.1x and XP (since I refuse to touch XP)).
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
It would be great if someone could create a website listing all the known audits that Microsoft has conducted in recent times and the financial outcomes of these audits. It could turn into a powerful tool to promote the use of an OS that doesn't carry such huge expenses in terms of both initial cost, as well as the administrative costs of maintaining software and licensing information about every computer in the organization. Has this, or something similar, been done already?
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Nasty suituation, eh?
Did BLACKMAIL become legal? How is this any different?
It's about fucking time that the RICO act applied to companies like MS and their industry cartels like the BSA. MS, after all, is a CORPORATE FELON now... Convicted and everything, despite the odds. What RIGHT and place do they have to be threatening people?
Of course, I actually hope MS does more of this. Nothing will convince people that they need to go GPL more than to have the barrel of the legal gun held to their heads.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
Write Microsoft product requirements into your next RFP!
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
TRUE the smallest Districts would have to struggle with making legal fees for any PROTRACTED legal battle, and TRUE that would be draining if there was a "tooth and nail" battle, BUT...
...there won't be any such legal battle(s) here, BECAUSE these types of licensing issue(s) have been litigated to death, and long ago became "Black Letter Law", well before the personal computer and MS....
thus far, and virtually without meaningful legal exception, Courts (trial and review) have told contractual entities (over and over and over again) that they are responsible for understanding and upholding ALL the provisions of the contracts they affirm
if the District(s) involved here could demonstrate that MS is either misconstruing or wilfully misinterpreting the EULA, a trial Court just might void the contract(s), leaving the District without ANY MS products...
but, i'm assuming you've read (and understand) the MS EULA...it is one of the most amazing licenses i've ever read....it is clear, concise, brillantly constructed and written and gives EVERY right imaginable to MS and simultaneously relieves them from EVERY form of liability....
The chances of sucessfully (i.e., surviving judicial review) litigating a licensing violation of the MS EULA AGAINST MS are roughly the on the same odds as RIAA stopping MP3 piracy....
sure they exist, but don't hold your breath
so, the District(s) involved won't even seriously litigate this, because any reasonable (and responsible) law firm will tell their clients "suck this one up, and next time don't sign contracts you don't want to adhere to"
interestingly, this might well be a strong selling point for a Red Hat/Mandrake/???, if they are smart enough to hit the K12 market really hard..
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
Yeah, I noticed the annual fee, although I didn't really think about it as much before. The annual fee is obviously part of Microsoft's eventual plan to switch everyone over to renting their software, but it opens up a very obvious hole. When you purchase software, it is good for at least three years, longer for most schools. It's a real investment then, and it's far more long-term.
With the annual fee, schools will have this item sitting on their budget each and every year, to be re-evaluated each and every time. It makes it a lot easier to switch away if you have to renew the software yearly, because it's not a long-term investment any more. This year they could spring for the Microsoft license package to avoid even more expensive legal troubles, and spend the rest of the year carefully planning and implementing a full-fledged switch to Apple and/or Linux.
The subscription model is going to wind up being their real weakness, especially once it's enacted everywhere. The need to decide yearly whether or not to pay a fee is going to compel people, at some point in time, to switch to where they don't have to pay, or simply pay a lot less. Hopefully this will lead to very good things in the long run.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
How the fuck a *** PRIVATE *** company has the *** POWER *** to force a *** GOVERNMENT ENTITY *** to face an audit??? The state government should call-in the state troopers to fire at will on microsoft goons!!!
Well, OK.
I guess it's moral support. But I doubt that I can provide any other. (That's a bit of a distance for me to walk.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Now think of the good P.R. Microsoft will get for that...
Just because some bigheaded store owner or bill gates says something doesn't make it law.
People can adapt to change. And this district would only have to change once. I think the best course of action for them to pay the $500k, wait a few months for the publicity to blow over (bad politics to appear to "waste" money), then scorched earth every piece of Microsoft software from the district.
Although the idea of making Microsoft enter by force to conduct an audit in the presence of media is an entertaining thought, it's probably the more expensive option.
Microsoft has gone too far. I'm done lurking here.
/. allows you to access that).
As a producer, director, and designer of educational software, I have been noodling a plan to help open up educational software for a couple of years. The past few months have solved a lot of problems in this area, and I am especially intrigued with the K-12 Linux work going on in Portland.
I am the co-designer of The Incredible Machine, and I want to see software like that essentially given to the schools. Now that the fine people in Portland have solved the operating system problem, and free computers with enough power are routinely given to schools, we need to spearhead an effort to get more software created for that Linux on P200 platform.
I have held off getting involved because I have a couple of start ups, but this move by Microsoft has pushed me over the edge. My start ups create games, and have some game development technology that could kick start this effort. I don't have time to help install Linux, but definitely want to get in touch with people that are interested in pushing MS out of the classroom. My email is posted on my site and in my profile (but I'm not sure
Jeff Tunnell
www.garagegames.com Independent Games
... and CodeWeavers has some software that can fill in some of the gaps. Granted, it's proprietary software, but it's probably one hell of a lot cheaper than the alternative...
With that being said, the school needs to choose wisely what they are going to do now. Do they really want to a shitload of money that they don't have to a company that just fucked them over? As consumers, they vote with their dollars, so if they give them money then they are basically saying that what Microsoft is doing it ok. I couldn't see anyone agree with that, so they need to go with the alternatives.
They might as well go with Linux, since they don't have money to spend on anything else. I barely have any experience with any flavor of linux (i've used super old versions of redhat and gnome), but from the looks of it, even that old system configured correctly would work. Working for a school, I can tell you that the vast majority processor cycles spent are either with word processing or a web browser. Using Linux at home might be a stretch, but school demands are minimal, so I think Linux would be a viable alternative. It'll have to be, because without money, there are no other alternatives.
This is a great story to keep watching. I wish the guys in the northwest the best of luck. I suggest slashdot post a followup story after the 60 days to see how they're doing.
Unfortunately you're right. (So are just about all the other "why migrating to linux will never work in a school district" posts.)
The only solution I can see is to stop using the computer as the classroom crutch ("but I can't write my term paper unless I have Word!"), and go back to the computer being a tool for learning computers. Give each kid a CD, a partition, and a login, and make the semester's work be having each kid get that machine into a usable, maintainable state.
Maybe that way the kids would actually learn enough about computers not to be terrified of them (and do it at an age where their minds are still flexible enough to accept it) AND they'll go back to learning the 3Rs (which kids uniformly hate, but are essential for Real Life) that have been so sorely neglected over the past couple decades.
Well, that's MY fantasy for today; what's yours?
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
So now it's a troll to say that a) People should pay for the commercial software they are using. b) That they should have some idea what is installed on their machines.
Sig is taking a break!
I don't think linux is even close to being a viable option for a school desktop...
It's a lot more viable that quite a few Windows offerings, no nonsense about every user having to run setup, just in order to get a program to work...
Now, they not only have to have an invoice, but they have to have the CD-ROM, the Certificate of Authenticity, the invoice, the sticker (in the case of OEM copies of the OS itself), and all manuals and documentation.
Exactly how long do you seriously expect these stickers to remain stuck in a school environment?
This stuff can happen to any company at any time. If Microsoft asked my company for a license audit we could turn the results over immeditely, because we constantly track software licenses owned, used, and installed. This was not easy or cheap, but you have to do it.
Wonder how often TCO studies remember to take account of this. In the case of the likes of client access licences this could be an order of magnitute greater than the purchase price of the licence.
You do realize that if EULA's are declared illegal the GPL is effectively illegal also since its really nothing more than an overrated EULA?
How many times does this need explaining. The GPL is not an EULA, indeed it specifically says it isn't. The GPL is a licence for the distribution of copyright material. You can use software licenced under the GPL in anyway you see fit. The conditions apply if you want to distribute copies to a third party. An EULA attempts to regulate how you can use a piece of software.
As another respondent has mentioned, school PCs are quite often very bottom of the barrel. They might only have 16M of RAM to work with. Short of turning such a machine into an xterminal, there's not much you can do with such a machine if you're using the like of StarOffice and KDE.
A diskless X terminal will take far more abuse than a regular PC. Remember that school children often don't take care of school equiptment.
So, if the schools install Linux, even that level of unknown, unwanted pirated application installations will go down. It isn't as simple a task in Linux to install an application, especially if you are not root and the application -needs- root.
In which case it is immediatly obvious who is responsible for either
a) trying to install software
b) not logging out
c) disclosing their password
All of which should be covered by an AUP.
Boy it sounds like MS re-invented their favorite market power ploy... remember how they were barred from OEM contracts like this? Remember how OEMs paid for a copy of Windows whether the computer shipped with it or not?
Microsoft offering this kind of licence is nothing new, what is is their attempting to intimidate schools into doing things this way.
If economic terms this rental only makes much sense to a school starting from scratch. Otherwise they are effectivly paying again for licences they have already bought. But if they are starting from scratch most of the arguments for using Microsoft over open source are meaningless.
Does anybody actually know what these schools use their computers for?
The answer may not be quite what you expect.
To put it in another way: how many educational software, like math/reading/writing/science software run on Linux?
How many of these "educational programs" actually have major usage within schools? IME only with younger children. A lot of the time teenagers simply use a web browser, a spreadsheet, some kind of word procesor and email.
For good or bad, most of these GUI environments are pretty much the same, as is the common software which runs in them. Click on the picture of a printer to print, click on the character in italic to change the font to italic, etc. It's not very difficult to made the adjustment, in my opinion.
It is also the case that if changes cause problem this would apply just as much to a different version of Windows or Office....
Besides, if other schools are like the ones local here, all they're teaching is basic stuff that most kids could figure out in an hour or so if the needed to: word processing, spreadsheet basics, etc. Kids come into schools knowing how to use a mouse and keyboard and even if they don't it takes less than a day to teach them. I don't see a real threat to their 'competitive advantage' if they go to a school using Macs or Linux boxes in place of Windows.
Anyway teaching kids how to use a specific piece of software using the argument that it is what they will encounter when they leave school makes no sense at all for any student under the age of about 15 in the first place.
Schools are ment to be providing education rather than training. How to use a wordprocessor (and get the best out of it) is education, how to use a specific version of MS Word is training. Of course if someone is educated to use a wordprocessor they need less training in the use of any specific wordprocessor they might encounter.
I followed some of the links to k12ltsp and was wondering how schools afforded the servers required ... then I found this
With second hand kit they are mostly running PCs as diskless X-terminals; but this needs hefty CPU & memory from the server (see here for SunRay server requirements, for comparison). Often the clients are capable of something more, but you will have a range from crap to very very crap PCs, so how do you balance the load correctly, instead of just having 2 client configs, thick and thin?
Their solution: turn your terminals + server cluster into an OpenMosix cluster, so you claw back every last drop of CPU power on your network. NICE!!
Obviously this moves more load onto the network, and I'd like to see how that scaled - but this is a really cool solution to building a network from second hand kit.
-Bazzargh
I expect that "The one" was a typo. You probably meant to write "The ones". Besides Gentoo, there are also Sorcerer (now in two versions ;-), Lunar, and Rock. I imagine there are more as well.
-Paul Komarek
I'm a network admin for a city govt. MS audited us last year. They found that we actually had a surplus of licenses above and beyond what software we had deployed. What prompted them to audit us? I highly suspect it is because we had been very vocal, anti-MS bashing to everyone we talked to and loudly announcing our plans to deploy as much Linux and phase out all MS products as we possibly could. The MS/BSA goons were furious when they couldn't find anything out of compliance.
I love it! That's as good as getting audited by the IRS and receiving a refund in response. Now, if only more audits would have these results... (You probably had better bookkeeping than most; it's common for documentation of licenses and purchases to be misplaced, unfortunately...)
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
Install, not convert, install. Installation is just a tiny fraction of the time that would be needed to "convert" the school district to Linux. You'd have to see if that educational software that has already been bought will run well under wine, you'd have to retrain the staff, they'd have to learn new software for teaching... all in the middle of the school year? Linux would be a steep enough learning curve during the summer.
BTW, Alias|Wavefront's Maya runs on Linux. And Gimp isn't a drop-in replacement for photoshop, but it's a servicable one.
Sorcerer and Lunar don't really have many defaults to speak of. At least I don't really remember any. As such, I was including them because they offer ext3 in their setup program. If anything, I think they're pushing XFS more than ext3, and might include XFS support in their default kernel config.
;-)
I'm really not sure about Rock.
Mainly, I wanted to raise awareness of the *number* of source-based linux distrobutions. I think this is a great thing. Now if only I could choose one instead of trying them all...
-Paul Komarek