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Quartz Extreme Demo Movie

Posted by pudge on from the i-will-buy-that-for-a-dollar dept.

Anonymous Coward writes "The Swedish web site MacNytt has a QuickTime demo of Quartz Extreme (the graphics acceleration technology in the upcoming Mac OS X "Jaguar" release). It is impressive footage, truly impressive. Now I can watch DVDs at a microscopic level!"

97 comments

  1. Non-Quicktime? by Clue4All · · Score: 1, Troll

    I'd really like to see this, I don't suppose there's a version available using a standard, cross-platform codec anywhere?

    --

    Is your browser retarded?
    1. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Kerne · · Score: 1

      Just get Crossover. :)

    2. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sucks to be you, doesn't it?

    3. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It demonstrates proprietary patented technology, so you woudn't be interested.

      Going into the Apple forums and bitching about quicktime? Clue4You

    4. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Clue4All · · Score: 1

      Nope, it's just difficult to research products when I can't view them. It's not like they're losing revenue since I most likely wouldn't have purchased a Mac anyway, so it's not a big deal, but it would've been nice to see the demo.

      --

      Is your browser retarded?
    5. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why not just reboot you shitbox into Windoze? don't pretend to us that you watch your Real video pr0n under Linux, we know you've got a stolen copy of Win98 sitting round there somewhere

    6. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the ISO (International Standards Organisation to you) chose Quicktime 4 as the online compressed video standard (despite pressure from M$ to impose its own inadequate imitation. I think the clip is in QT3 which is a subset of 4. So in brief, it is in a standard video format which became popular in the mid 90's and was installed by most commercial CD ROMs. Of course, no body HAS TO subscribe to standards...

    7. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Alex+Thorpe · · Score: 1

      It's much easier on a Mac user than RealMedia format, which only works in Classic mode, or WMP for X, which only work with half the WMP media that I've downloaded. Still, MPEG should be viewable by everyone, and should have been used.

      --
      "Common Sense Ain't" -Unknown
    8. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno? I'm watching it on Linux so exactly what platform are you trying to cross?

    9. Re:Non-Quicktime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, what native executable are you using? Neither Xine nor Mplayer (ugh) will play it.

  2. it's been /.'ed by hype7 · · Score: 1

    either that, or my adsl connection just went down. something tells me it's the former.

    great, we're /. sites from the subcategories now (like apple.slashdot.org). I think we need a /. mirror of every page that gets linked or something :)

    -- james

  3. Anyone? by Kerne · · Score: 1

    ..manage to mirror it before it went kaput?

  4. /.'d already by autojive · · Score: 1

    Quartz Extreme looks absolutely incredible.The rendering and compositing is fast as hell. Though I as of yet can't think of any practical reason for the zoom function other than as a "look at what my operating system can do that yours cannot!" type of feature. Can't wait to get my hands on a copy.

    --
    I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
    1. Re:/.'d already by BeenaBerry · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't you think users with poor vision might appreciate being able to zoom their screen?

    2. Re:/.'d already by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 2

      Man, what I wouldn't give to have Zoom on my iBook. The resolution is just too darn high, I keep finding myself slouching to get a better look at the screen. Does zoom require Quartz Extreme hardware goodness? Given that the whole Quartz system is supposedly PDF based there would be no technical justification for that--I was kind of shocked when I discovered original 10.0 OS X didn't have a zooming feature--without zoom, what's the point of having everything in PDF?!

    3. Re:/.'d already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I thought pudge would have said, "Now drdink can watch videos, too" but drdink is an ass, so I don't blame pudge...

    4. Re:/.'d already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, you could use it to find the "ghost" on your 3 men and a baby DVD.

  5. me want.. by linuxbert · · Score: 1

    aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh me want
    i cant wait for X.II (10.2)

    ok this lameness filter is a pain in the ass

  6. Downloaded the movie by Craig+Maloney · · Score: 3, Informative
    I downloaded the movie, and you can too! Just go through the main page and select the Swedish equivalent of "Films". It's accessable from there.

    It's pretty damn impressive. I think we've seen yet another advance in GUI technology from Apple.

  7. This has massive implications by ellem · · Score: 1, Troll

    for pr0n!

    but otherwise that waw a little annoying.

    Are they going to "fix" Perl, that's what I want to know.

    --
    This .sig is fake but accurate.
    1. Re:This has massive implications by norwoodites · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with Perl?
      File a bug report if there is something wrong: http://bugreport.apple.com.

  8. are screenshots a thing of the past? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's my understanding that when you take a screenshot, the parts rendered in the graphics card don't show up in the shot. that's why screenshots of a dvd playing had black where the dvd would be.

    but now that a lot more is in the graphics card, are screenshots possible? does taking a screenshot revert to quartz (non extreme)?

    can anyone take a screenshot and post it?

    thanks,
    -andrew

    1. Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? by shunnicutt · · Score: 3, Informative

      The blackout of the DVD has nothing to do with the graphics card -- DVDs are blacked out to prevent people from infringing copyrighted material.

      The DVD window isn't actually black -- it's a dark shade of ugly green and the system uses something to replace that with the DVD footage. In OS9, you could set your desktop graphic to this color and play DVDs on your desktop. :)

      To confirm that you can take screen shots of graphics that are accelerated in the graphics card, I took a screen shot of iTunes showing a psychedelic animation inside a window. The screen shot shows the openGL graphics as well as the desktop and other windows.

    2. Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? by AKA+da+JET · · Score: 1

      This isn't just a mac thing, it happens in Windows too. Unfortunatly.

    3. Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, the green area is used for video overlay, and the primary purpose is speed.

      The lack of screenshot capability is a side-effect of the fact that the video isn't going to the screen through the normal route (but the DVD forum does prevent player companies from working around this).

    4. Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mod +1, entirely correct.

      You can work around it though, it depends on your gfx card. On my old Compaq (I forget the model), I was able to screen grab DVDs playing, and also you can get players which allow you to (vlc for instance).

      I agree that the DVD forum does it's "fair" best to discourage it ...

    5. Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? by Dahan · · Score: 2
      (but the DVD forum does prevent player companies from working around this).

      Screenshot is a supported feature of InterVideo WinDVD (yeah, it's not Mac, but it's still a DVD player)... just press the "P" key, I think. The DVD forum didn't prevent them from adding that feature...

    6. Re:are screenshots a thing of the past? by EvilAndrew · · Score: 1
      The call you're looking for is glReadPixels.

      This is the OpenGL call to copy a block of pixels from the frame buffer.

      EvilAndrew

  9. Mirrors by rgraham · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://members.cox.net/ronin4701/QuartzExtremeTest riktigfil.mov

    http://clem.mscd.edu/~grahamry/QuartzExtremeTest ri ktigfil.mov

    1. Re:Mirrors by mkelley · · Score: 1

      nope, sorry these don't work.

      --

      m.kelley
      life is like a freeway, if you don't look you could miss it.
    2. Re:Mirrors by Dolly_Llama · · Score: 2

      wow, was that genie effect slow enough? My lombard even doesn't have that much trouble

      --

      Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan

    3. Re:Mirrors by mithras+the+prophet · · Score: 1

      Hold down the shift key next time you do a genie.

      Nifty, eh? It's a feature, not a bug.

      --
      four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
    4. Re:Mirrors by Dolly_Llama · · Score: 1

      ...verily this day unto me have you delivered this Clue. And thus having been clued, i shall sing thy praises.

      --

      Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan

  10. wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by frankie · · Score: 0, Troll

    ...disappointing and downright rude if you've got 1+ month old iBook, a 5+ month old iMac, or a 9+ month old PowerBook. In other words, the majority of Macs sold in the past year (and 95% of OSX-capable Macs sold before that) cannot use Quartz Extreme.

    Hardware graphics acceleration for my Pismo is not an unreasonable request!

    1. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by rgraham · · Score: 1

      While it's true that these not very old machines will not be able to take advantage of Quartz Extreme they will however greatly benefit from the overall speed improvements of 10.2 (.5?), even in every day Finder operations.

    2. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by SpamJunkie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quartz extreme is *not* meant for everyone. It is lucky that Apple is releasing it this early at all; Microsoft's fully accellerated GUI is more than a year away, likely more than two. Unaccellerated Quartz is still very fast and very advanced - still unlike anything any other OS has.

      Also doing text on GL has always been a bit weird - lining up pixels and so on is kind of awkward. Unaccellerated Quartz will always be there, and always be reliable. It's not like Apple is suddenly making OS X only work on these video cards.

      You're not going to expect Doom III to work on these machines as well, are you?

    3. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by Mononoke · · Score: 3, Informative
      disappointing and downright rude if you've got 1+ month old iBook, a 5+ month old iMac, or a 9+ month old PowerBook. In other words, the majority of Macs sold in the past year (and 95% of OSX-capable Macs sold before that) cannot use Quartz Extreme.
      Yes, how dare Apple develop new technology that utilizes the latest (and future) hardware to its fullest! What were they thinking?!?

      That's just like those damn ID Software people that keep putting out new games that make us buy new video cards!

      Anyway...one clarification:

      the majority of Macs sold in the past year (and 95% of OSX-capable Macs sold before that) cannot use Quartz Extreme.
      You forgot "to its fullest extent." Read the Quartz Extreme specs again, and pay special attention to the word 'recommended.' Look it up if you need to.
      --
      NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
    4. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translation of "Recommended" -- You'll need double this spec this to use the product properly.

    5. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yeah, I was kind of ticked it wasn't going to work with my little iBook ... in retrospect, it makes sense to expect that though. To store a texture big enough for my iBooks screen of size 1024 * 768 at 32bpp(4 bytes) takes 3 megs. Then consider overlapping windows (typically LOTS of those, at least the way I use computers) and other overhead... it all adds up, I suppose.

      It was just a nasty surprise to read about how sexy cool Quartz Extreme would be until I'm drooling, then get all of those dreams dashed to pieces by brutal, brutal reality. Such is life.

    6. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by jcr · · Score: 2

      Hardware graphics acceleration for my Pismo is not an unreasonable request!

      Sorry, but it's a hardware limitation. QZX requires a graphics accelerator chip that can handle non-power-of-two textures.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    7. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by arson1 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Translation of "Recommended" -- You'll need double this spec this to use the product properly.

      No, that's the translation of "Minimum Requirements" :)

      --


      --
      Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
    8. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by singularity · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, how dare Apple develop new technology that utilizes the latest (and future) hardware to its fullest!

      Exactly! I am still upset that Apple is adding AltiVec enhancements. If iMacs and iBooks cannot benifit from it, Apple should never start adding it to the OS until every machine offered by Apple has had at least a G4 for at least a year (so as to prevent anyone from yelling "But I just bought my iBook six months ago, and it will not support it!")

      /sarcasm

      All indications show that Jaguar will offer a speed-up for non-QE capable machines.

      Perhaps Apple could have written QE with the Rage Pro in mind. I am guessing doing that would seriously prevent the major speed-up we are going to see instead. Doing so would be ignoring the increased bandwidth offered by AGP 4x and the increased capabilities of having 32 megs of VRAM on-board.

      I am glad to see Apple writing software for the future with the past in mind, but not driving development.

      --
      - (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
    9. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by sekalreed · · Score: 1

      What I would really like to see Apple do when they launch Jaguar is to drop the price on OEM video card upgrades for those of us with Rage 128s and who need an ADC connector. I love my studio display, but I now this makes me wish I had just bought a standard dvi display since the only place to find ADC compatible video cards is through Apple with their absurd prices for old OEM cards or Ebay.

      --
      -ds
    10. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1024x768 at 32bpp would weight 3megs if it individual pixels were saved. With vectors and hardware acceleration to make on-da-fly rendering possible I guess it might weight less.

    11. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Ah... mac lovers :)

      "Unaccellerated Quartz is still very fast"

      OK, you're making me laugh noq.

      "still unlike anything any other OS has"

      As you're talking 'bout unaccelerated quartz what you are describing is display PDF and more generally vector GUIs. They have been around for years. They haven't gotten to the stage of OSX - but OSX can't claim innovation - only determined implementation.

      It's nice and all, but your post is mostly fluff. I think.

    12. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by Xenex · · Score: 2
      You forgot "to its fullest extent." Read the Quartz Extreme specs again, and pay special attention to the word 'recommended.' Look it up if you need to.


      If you're implying Quartz Extreme will work, but perform poorly, on non-Radeon/GeForce>2 hardware you are incorrect. Older cards just use plain 'old' Quartz. It's the video RAM that the recommendation speaks of, suggesting 32MB. I know for a fact that Quartz Extreme doesn't work on lesser cards; I'm using Jaguar on my late 2001 iBook right now.

      If you're not implying that, sorry, please disregard this post. :)
    13. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by superposed · · Score: 1

      I have a late-2001 iBook too. How does Jaguar work on it? Are scrolling and window-resizing faster, even using "plain 'old' Quartz"? That's what I want to see.

    14. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by Xenex · · Score: 2
      I have ranted very briefly on the speed of Jaguar on my iBook here.


      Anyway, on my late 2001 iBook 600 (with 640MB RAM), the WWDC Jaguar Dev Seed is a little quicker, but it's not by leaps and bounds. This is no 10.0 to 10.1 style boost, at least not at the moment.

      It's better, but it don't expect too much. The new Finder is much faster though...


      Now for the random screenshots...

      Startup Disk. The only place where the OS is refered to as "10.2", thus feeding the "10.5" rumours.

      Lots of new Jaguar Stuff. New System Preferences, About This Mac, iChat, Terminal, About QuickTime...

      Aqua Blue Beachball. The new spinning cursor.

      Anyway, if you want to know anything specifically, post here...
    15. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by superposed · · Score: 1

      > Anyway, if you want to know anything specifically, post here...

      Mostly, I want to know if the user interface feels more responsive. On my late-2001 iBook with 10.1, whenever you drag a window corner to resize it, the screen redraw lags behind the mouse by a second or so, so if you move quickly, you end up with the window corner running an inch or two behind the mouse, and eventually catching up when you stop moving the mouse. (Interestingly, if you drag quickly and stop suddenly, the corner never catches up with where the mouse is -- the corner sits where the mouse was a couple of steps ago, until you give it another mouse event by nudging the mouse or releasing the button; then it redraws in the right position.) This lag happens most in window resizing, especially in Internet Explorer or OmniWeb with complex windows. But it also happens to a lesser degree when resizing Finder windows or scrolling any window.

      When the system doesn't respond immediately to mouse movements, it makes it feel sluggish, and it kind of grates on me. This lag even happens on a newish G4 PowerMac I use at school, although the response on that machine is good enough that you hardly notice it in normal use.

      Is this any better in 10.2?

    16. Re:wonderful, *IF* you've got a Radeon or GF2... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Happens in the PC world too.

      "Hey, I bought a Voodoo5 the otherday...."

      Card get whooped by Nvidia's selections. 3dfx gets bought out. That was in less than a 6 month period for many people.

  11. Pismo?! by SPYvSPY · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That machine is ancient in Mac-time. You don't see me griping about not having HW acceleration on a Lombard do you? No, I went out and bought a DP 800 G4 so I could play too.

    Why is it that you purchased a machine with a cripple mobile graphics card and then were surprised to discover its limitations?

    1. Re:Pismo?! by frankie · · Score: 2

      That machine is ancient in Mac-time. [...] I went out and bought a DP 800 G4 so I could play too.

      DP800 means you got a Quicksilver, released in Summer/Fall 2001. If I bought a PowerBook in the same time frame, it would have been a Mercury, with the exact same Rage 128 AGP 2x as Pismo.

      In other words: the top-end mobile Mac available at any price only 8 months ago, which was specifically advertised as being a dream machine for video & graphics professionals, cannot use Quark Extreme. That's just plain wrong.

    2. Re:Pismo?! by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2

      Right, but you don't own one of those PowerBooks. You own a Pismo.

      I own a 400MHz PowerBook with a Rage 128 M so no QE love for me.

      So I dunno what you want out of this other than the impossible? QE cannot physically run on systems with less than 16mb of ram and less than Radeon quality performance. It's not Apple's fault, any more than Doom 3 will require very similar specs. Hardware acceleration requires the proper hardware!

      Oh, unless you mean you want hardware acceleration using your Rage 128?

      How manytimes have you heard it? 10.2 will see significant performance boosts; just don't expect to run QE.

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
    3. Re:Pismo?! by swgs · · Score: 1

      hate to destroy your little rant and all.....but the pismo didnt have AGP 2x. It does have an ATi Rage 128 Mobility with 8MB, which is the same as the original PowerBook G4 released in January of 2001.

      SWGS

    4. Re:Pismo?! by Lally+Singh · · Score: 2
      In other words: the top-end mobile Mac available at any price only 8 months ago, which was specifically advertised as being a dream machine for video & graphics professionals, cannot use Quark Extreme. That's just plain wrong.
      Why? Video & graphics professionals can still edit video in realtime. What's your beef? QE won't be utilized in the latest software for quite a while, so for right now, it'll just be a graphics acceleration layer, which isn't of much use to people editing video.
      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    5. Re:Pismo?! by frankie · · Score: 2

      QE cannot physically run on systems with less than 16mb of ram and less than Radeon quality performance. It's not Apple's fault

      It is certainly Apple's fault, because they aren't trying hard enough. Apple's own Java group demonstrated one year ago that it's totally feasible to have hardware acceleration on Rage 128. (BTW, read the MacSlash article and you'll see very familiar discussion).

      While it may be true that the exact feature set of Quartz Extreme cannot be achieved on a Rage 128, it is clearly false that they couldn't provide some level of boost to older GPUs. Apple chooses not to bother, and that choice merits complaint.

    6. Re:Pismo?! by frankie · · Score: 1

      pismo didnt have AGP 2x

      Thank you for playing, please try again

    7. Re:Pismo?! by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2

      Isn't that exactly what I said? 10.2 will see exceleration on your Pismo, but you won't see QE running on it?

      And I'll see even more exceleration, but I still won't be running QE?

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
    8. Re:Pismo?! by frankie · · Score: 2

      exactly what I said? 10.2 will see exceleration on your Pismo

      Totally unrelated. 10.2 will be faster because it's compiled with GCC3. That has nothing to do with offloading graphics tasks to the GPU.

      We could just as well get the benefits of GCC3 if Apple used it to compile 10.1.5, and sent it out via Software Update.

    9. Re:Pismo?! by Swumpy · · Score: 1

      The Rage 128 DOES give you hardware accelerated graphics under OS X. If it wasn't, playing most 3D games would be nearly impossible. As it is, a Rage 128 will give you quite a boost in OS X (I know - I've used OS X with a PowerMac 8500's built-in graphics.) I do agree however, that Apple should provide support for older GPUs (such as the RAGE Pro). But that's not the issue here. Regular hardware video acceleration and Quartz Extreme are two different things. The former works fine in OS X, however it is technically impossible for older graphics cards to work with Quartz Extreme. But you know what? Jaguar still has tons of speed improvements not related to QE, and I know I'm still going to love it, even though I use a Rage 128 myself.

  12. Zoom Feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The zoom feature is actually one of the new accessabiltiy options for persons with poor eyesight. It is not really related to Quartz Extreme except that its part of the same system update. Jaguar has a whole bunch of neat features for people with impairments

  13. DVD screengrabs in OSX by Bizzarobot · · Score: 1

    The old-school key command screen grab won't work while the DVD player is running. (it just beeps at you...) Using Grab actually pops up a warning telling you that it can't grab anything while the DVD player is running. Bummer eh? Snapz Pro can grab shots from a DVD though... so what does that mean?

    1. Re:DVD screengrabs in OSX by shunnicutt · · Score: 3, Informative

      Snapz Pro can only grab shots from DVD if you're using an Nvidia card.

  14. Before everyone starts their bitching... by Lally+Singh · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Yes, Quartz Extreme requires a 32MB AGPx2 video card. That's because everything is now rendered to OpenGL and then the card takes care of the drawing from there. So, it simply _can't_ work on older graphics cards that don't do much 3D optimization, like the Rage128.

    So, you can't do lots of cool little tricks. Jaguar does have plenty of other graphics optimizations. I've seen it fly on iBooks. It's simply faster. OS X has up until now been worked on for functionality, not speed. Now Apple's optimizing it, and it is crazy fast. CRAZY FAST.

    --
    Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    1. Re:Before everyone starts their bitching... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Wrong!

      Apple recommends having 32Mb. Quartz Extreme requires 16Mb.

    2. Re:Before everyone starts their bitching... by k_187 · · Score: 2

      Quartz Extreme doesn't require 32mb of Ram on the vidcard. its just recommended. I read somewhere that a radeon or better was needed because the rage128 and lower can't accept textures whose sizes aren't a power (or maybe multiple I can't remember) of 2. Makes me wonder if the AGP slot is needed, or if its just the chip.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    3. Re:Before everyone starts their bitching... by superposed · · Score: 1

      All I want to know is, will 10.2 finally give me instantaneous scrolling and window resizing on my iBook in Finder, OmniWeb, Explorer, etc.? It is so frustrating to have the window lag a second or two behind my mouse during scroll and resize operations -- it feels like I'm working through molasses, and makes the system "feel" kludgy. This is my biggest gripe about OS X.

      I get immediate window-drawing on a 300 MHz Pentium II running Windows 98, so why don't I on my 600 MHz iBook? (especially since my iBook smokes the Windows machine on other graphics-intensive tasks, like QuickTime playback)

      I know the Quartz window resize is more sophisticated and complex than the Windows window resize, but it still seems like Apple should be able to make this work. Does anyone know if it will on 10.2?

    4. Re:Before everyone starts their bitching... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > All I want to know is, will 10.2 finally give me instantaneous scrolling and window resizing on my iBook in Finder, OmniWeb, Explorer, etc.?

      yes. amazing improvements already show and i'm sure it will improve even more before final release. window resizing is still a little painful, but scrolling is very snappy on my 500MHz iBook Dual-USB.

      >It is so frustrating to have the window lag a second or two behind my mouse during scroll and resize operations -- it feels like I'm working through molasses, and makes the system "feel" kludgy. This is my biggest gripe about OS X.

      agreed.

      >I get immediate window-drawing on a 300 MHz Pentium II running Windows 98, so why don't I on my 600 MHz iBook? (especially since my iBook smokes the Windows machine on other graphics-intensive tasks, like QuickTime playback)

      granted. but it's not just a little bit heavier, it's a completely different paradigm. i don't have the information in front of me, but i've read some about the different generations of windowing systems and mac os x's is far richer and more complex than any previously. it may be a slight penalty now, but it will offer such unbounded ability in the future that it is very worth it.

      >I know the Quartz window resize is more sophisticated and complex than the Windows window resize, but it still seems like Apple should be able to make this work. Does anyone know if it will on 10.2?

      see above comments. somewhat improved ... much more complex ... keep the faith ... apple's moving in the right direction ... even if they falter once in a while.

  15. I still don't get it by billcopc · · Score: 0, Troll

    IANAML (I Am Not A Mac Lover), but what's so hot about this stuff ? Admittedly, the zooming seems quite nice in the demo, but what's the real-world use of this stuff ? I run in 1600x1200 all the time on my 19" screen, and used to run my 12" laptop in 1024x768 just fine. The only time I need to zoom in on something is when I'm drawing in Photoshop or 3dsMax, and they have a native zoom function.

    To my short-sighted mind, this tech is only good for trying to catch Natalie Portman's nips. Now if you've willingly purchased a Mac, I think you have much better uses for the box.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:I still don't get it by FaRuvius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, lets think for a second that maybe not EVERYBODY in the world has your wonderful vision.

      In fact, many people with handicaps are prevented from using computers because they can't distinguish the shapes on the screen. Intensive magnification of the screen contents allows these people to use computers effectively.

      The zooming is actually magnification of the screen, I think the really nifty part that they were trying to show was the real time zooming on a DVD image with no slowdown of the dvd frame rate. ( I believe they were pausing the dvd here and there, I could be wrong)

      --
      Need to get away?
      Adirondack Vacations
    2. Re:I still don't get it by Molz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There was also a demo shown (I can't find it now though) of the OpenGL Teapot and some other figures floating around on the screen. They were infront of a DVD and the DVD was reflecting on them. It was pretty awsome.

      The transparent terminals on top of the DVD are pretty cool too, although I think the biggest improvement that QE will bring is the increased speed.

      --
      Can I Play With Madness?
    3. Re:I still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      the zooming seems quite nice in the demo, but what's the real-world use of this stuff ?
      When you've got a vector interface zooming comes as a freebie, along with better quality printing (of the interface), etc.

      Zooming in on a bitmap of Natalie's nips will get you large sharp pixelised nips. I don't recommend it.

  16. Ahh, thanks for the link: by Amiasian · · Score: 1

    One little very minor touch up though: Cox.net Mirror [http://members.cox.net/ronin4701/QuartzExtremeTes triktigfil.mov] MSCD.edu Mirror [href-"http://clem.mscd.edu/~grahamry/QuartzExtrem eTestriktigfil.mov] There were some spaces that snuck into the URLs. For those whom they don't work for, just take out the space after the last "t" in "QuartzExtremeTest" and they should work fine.

    1. Re:Ahh, thanks for the link: by rgraham · · Score: 1

      Oops, thanks.

  17. What's wrong with Perl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you seen the hoops you have to jump through to DL a module?

    Have you seen the hoops with fire you have to jump through to upgrade to 5.6.1?

    Does Socket even work?

    1. Re:What's wrong with Perl? by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Have you seen the hoops...

      No. Share?

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    2. Re:What's wrong with Perl? by ellem · · Score: 1

      Check out the Mac OSX Perl board at:

      Here and specifically Here

      --
      This .sig is fake but accurate.
  18. A much better QE example video. by johnpg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here's a better one. It's 20mb. Someone please MIRROR it as I don't want to be slashdotted.

    http://207.182.242.235/jaguardemo1.mov (right click and save is probably wise).

    I made that a few days ago (posted the link on macrumors), to see if that QE video was for real. It was, but there are some issues with sound. My footage has sound, so you can hear when it cuts out. QE is not as wonderful as the original video made it seem, but it isn't bad either. There's also a comparision at the end trying to do the same things under 10.1.4.

    Again, please be kind and mirror that video.

    1. Re:A much better QE example video. by Molz · · Score: 1

      What machine are you running on for this demo? Its possible that the machine in the other video was a top of the line machine or so.

      --
      Can I Play With Madness?
    2. Re:A much better QE example video. by johnpg · · Score: 1

      The other machine was a g4 400 or 450. Mine is an 867 with 640 mb of ram. So actually my box is the faster of the two. In any case, QE is still a huge improvement, even if it isn't "perfect."

      As someone else commented the link is now dead. It was killing my T1. I left it up as long as I could stand it! :-)

      There was a guy who had a mirror but I just checked and it wasn't responding. That was at:

      http://calnet.sdsu.edu/jaguardemo.mov ... YMMV.

      If anyone has a copy (a LOT of people downloaded the file) please mirror it.

      Cheers,
      John

      P.S. I'm SO dissapointed that I posted this nifty video and didn't even get modded up! :-) Oh well.

    3. Re:A much better QE example video. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is dead too :(

      someone just needs to dump it on an idisk

  19. Any project for linux ? by IIEFreeMan · · Score: 1

    Is there any project to bring an equivalent feature to linux ?

    links anybody ...

    1. Re:Any project for linux ? by Molz · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean a project to convert X11 into an OpenGL stream (which is basicaly what QE does), or do you want Quartz on Linux?

      I seriously doubt there is either going on, although the Berlin Project might bring it closer to reality.

      --
      Can I Play With Madness?
    2. Re:Any project for linux ? by IIEFreeMan · · Score: 1

      converting X11 (or anything else like directFb) into an OpenGL stream was my idea ...

      thanks anyway for the link.

    3. Re:Any project for linux ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See fresco.org.

  20. enlightenment by Loco3KGT · · Score: 1

    the next version of enlightenment will be GL rendered so it will haul ass

    --
    Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
  21. The technical answer by Slur · · Score: 1

    The way graphics cards get DVD video onto the screen without going through the screen RAM is a nifty trick called "gen-locking" or "chroma-locking." The DVD data goes to the graphics card in a separate channel and is combined with the video from the raster chip before being sent to the screen. So the ugly shade of green (my ATI card uses pure magenta) that you get in your screenshots is the key color.

    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
  22. Dead link by Erik+K.+Veland · · Score: 1

    Mirrors anyone?

    --
    "I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
    1. Re:Dead link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mirror link

  23. For OSS users, there may be an alternative. by pschmied · · Score: 2
    This sounds very similar to what Enlightenment is doing with Evas.

    Maybe some opportunities for worlds to meet?


    -Peter

    --
    . Penguins Surely Ca
    1. Re:For OSS users, there may be an alternative. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doesn't have anything to do with Eva, sorry. Eva can't even aspire to approach the function and scope of this new Apple technology.

      Seems to me like Apple is beating the pants of everybody else with this one, although I am sure someone will come with a clone of this. For sure, MS.

  24. whoops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    drat, fixed URL

  25. Jaguar Network Performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone else had an opportunity to play with the "pre-alpha" Jaguar release? i've been using it ... and i'm pretty happy with the all-around speed improvements, but i have encountered serious network performance issues on two seperate computers. one, an iBook and the other a dual-1G ...

    anyway, i realize it's a "pre-alpha" but i was just curious if other peope had any network hiccups, slowdowns, unexplained phenomena, etc.

    otherwise, it looks to be truly impressive. can't wait for a more widely available beta ...

  26. How/Where do you get Jaguar? by John2583 · · Score: 1

    I have seen many people say they have tried Jaguar, but I can't seem to find out where these people are getting it. I checked apple's developer site and it wasn't obvious. Do you have to pay for it, be a journalist who writes about computers or what?

    1. Re:How/Where do you get Jaguar? by Cheesewhiz · · Score: 1


      Jaguar -- 10.2 Developer Preview 1 -- was released at the World Wide Developer's Conference to registered attendees. Since then, it has filtered down to the Carracho and Hotline worlds.

      --

      -----
      "Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, therefore, waffle."
  27. Ok this is a stupid question by heideggier · · Score: 1
    I was thinking, How likly would it be for apple for intergrate the graphics co-processor with the CPU, nforce style, although most likly with radeon?.

    Everything I've seen seems to point towards this direction, espically the SGI merger rumour, and now I see that the windows manger is being implemented in Open GL full time, You have to start woundering.

    --
    Pianist : Some jerk whos taught themselves how to type in rhythm