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Canadian Government to Jam Radio Signals
An anonymous reader submits: "According to this article, the Canadian government has given the military and RCMP permission to jam radio signals during the G8 summit and the Pope's visit. I suppose that the stated reason would be to prevent terrorists from communicating with each other, but I have to wonder whether it's also being done to keep those pesky protesters from effectively organizing at the G8. And if this action manages to block wireless 911 calls, and someone dies because of that, who's going to be willing to step up to the plate and take the blame?"
how terrorists are the only ones who use cellphones and drug dealers are the only ones who use pages.
Here are some details.
Jam this!
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
Anybody got a quarter?
Romana: "How did you know?" Doctor Who: "Ah, well, knowing is easy. Everyone does THAT ad nauseum. I just sort of hope"
"And if this action manages to block wireless 911 calls, and someone dies because of that, who's going to be willing to step up to the plate and take the blame?"
Our country lived without cell phones for 200 years; I think people will survive for another 12 days without them in that area. They are going to be in a populated area; landline phones will be nearby. People don't die from lack of cell phones.
Jamming is achieved by making sure your signal is stronger than anyone elses', I hope the hypothetical detonation device doesn't simply look for a signal of a significant strength.
There will be more than "blocking 911" to worry about then.
Mmmmmmm
"It could be used, for example, if there was threat of a detonation of some type of a remote-controlled device. We could jam the frequencies to make sure nobody could send a signal to that bomb."
He did not know, however, how the jamming would affect cell phones or commercial radio transmissions
It specifies that "every reasonable effort shall be made to confine or restrict to the extent possible interference with or obstruction of a radiocommunication . . . to the smallest physical area, the fewest number of frequencies and the minimum duration required to accomplish the objectives of the interference or obstruction."
and most interesting
Jamming devices are also illegal in the United States, but there is a growing underground market for the devices, which can be bought for about $2,200. A survey of 2,000 people last year by Decima Research found about 50 per cent support for jammers in public places.
Imagine no more cell phones going off in movie theatres.
Besides, if it's a public place, there should be a public phone nearby. It's not like these people are on a highway in the middle of nowhere.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Let's see...
1. If you jam radio frequencies, you deny yourself information you might otherwise be able to use to your advantage. Not real smart.
2. This does NOTHING to block visual signalling methods, or hard-line transmission methods that do not rely on radio frequency communication.
3. Remote control explosive devices that could be set off by the intended transmission could also be set off by the jamming, which is _also_ a transmission of considerable strength on multiple frequencies. Explosive crews use those "Turn off Transmitter next X miles" signs for a reason.
4. If you only block selective frequencies, you'll probably miss blocking transmissions in other alternate bands/frequencies you didn't expect "the forces of darkness" to use.
5. The methods they intend to use are akin to killing a fly with a sledgehammer.
And that's just off the top of my head!
If you get attached by a bear in Kanaskis you likely won't be able to use your cell phone anyway. Even if you live to tell about it.
What if the jamming effectively ruins some terrorists plans, and prevents a disaster and saves hundreds of lives? But I guess that we'll never know for sure.
I am personally convinced that the various intelligence agencies prevent dozens of terrorist attacks per months, some of them probably of the 9/11 magnitude, without the public realizing simply because the government wants to keep those quiet (no need to shout wolf once the threat is defused).
Exactly. I get tired of this American, "Dollars know best" ego-stroking that I see on here lately. The fact of the matter is that when it comes to government, no matter the system, its the same old shit.
The First Amendment to the US Constitution codifies the idea that the free flow of information empowers free people to do good things with that information. Pity that our neighbors to the north rejected the invitation to place themselves under its jurisdiction (and that our own government seems hell-bent on neutering the entire document).
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
So what your're saying is that Verizon and Sprint should be the only ones allowed to do whatever they want with the airwaves because the have they most money.
Yes, I see how that is so much better than the government controlling it. Why have representation in the decision? Any one can vote, only those with money can own Verizon stock. That's definitely the best way to go for all of society.
Since this was text, i feel the need to point out my sarcasm above.
Mehmet Ali Agca, perhaps?
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Perhaps even more dangerous. Doctors and other emergency workers need to be accesible by cellphone. (And any other person who has an "on call" type of job. Howdy IT folks ;-) )
A major reason you don't see jammers etc. in movie theatres for a bit is some people need their phones to work. Hopefully at somepoint we'll have smart phones that can be set to ring only for doctors etc. if desperately needed. If not, only allow phones to vibrate.
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
...sure beats the old method of posting "No Terrorism" signs all over the place.
I'm a Canadian citizen. Thus, whether I treat the rich or poor, I get paid the same. Canadian doctors get paid on a per-patient basis - thus, helping the poor or the rich is irrelevant. Its the number of patients is serve that matters. As for me having "no right to tell a doctor
The fact of the matter is that for as long as I've been alive, socialized medicine has worked. Granted, it is a fragile system, and at times appears on the brink of collapse, but hey, if the Canadian government has to reroute funds from our defense budget to maintain our health care system, so be it. I'd much rather have a poor person cured of cancer than another missile in our arsenal.
in a disaster? The phone service.
Vital communication would be jammed exactly when it was most needed by the very people who would need it most. Set off a bomb in a crowded mall NEAR the center of the action and the emergency services might not hear of it until somebody drove over and told them.
All of downtown New York was without land phone service for days, weeks and my old neighborhood (Battery Park City,) was affected for months after the attack on the WTC.
Cell phones were dead too because there was no power available to the repeaters but those were reestablished within hours or days with mobile power units and mobile repeaters driven in on trucks.
This is yet another example of bureaucratic thinking at its best: Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I would want the badge number of the fool who thought that one up. And I would hold him/her and the judge who is allowing this stupidity so we can hold them responsible for any deaths due to the inability of the authorities to respond.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
"Fair for all"? How so? I dare you to say, with conviction and truth, that a millionaire in the USA has the exact same power or influence as a blue-collar worker just scraping by, day to day. Sure, they can both vote, but what if a poor person can't get out of their house because they can afford to treat their illness? All systems have their classes - only their names change.
With Japan nipping at your heels. Keep in mind that Japan has universal health care, very similar to the system we have in Canada.
It's been used a few times (not terribly appropriately IRC), most of which included comical images of the bomb squad desperately trying to remember their semaphore signals.
However, they do leave the public telephones running, so that's something.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"The protestors will be protesting right down the street from me.
"...if this action manages to block wireless 911 calls, and someone dies because of that, who's going to be willing to step up to the plate and take the blame?"
This is in the middle of the capital city of Canada. There will be plenty of landlines everywhere. There's a large task force of emergency personnel. I cannot see this as a problem.
Your over-generalization of the poor astounds and appalls me. Many of the poor people I know *don't* have cable, and have quit smoking, and still can't better their positions in life. You know why? They spent their waking hours working to keep themselves and their families alive. When you're working two minimum wage jobs under a mountain of debt, how can you just go and get educated? Being poor is a trap - one that many people cannot get out of.
So police react to the protesters. If the protesters would just protest, all fine and well. That is nessessary in our society. But violence? Civil disobediance (a phrase for "break the law")?. The people that do this are just using the summit as an excuse for violent behaviour.
Exactly! No one here in Canada wants to stop peaceful protests, sit-ins, demonstrations, strikes, etc. But when busloads of men in black balaclavas, pockets stuffed full of rocks, start showing up -- that's a different story entirely.
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
Since the Pope's involved, They can say:
"We're jammin' in the name of the Lord!!!"
The lesson comes at a high cost for many Canadians (witness the breakdown of their health care system),
/. But I also recognize that health care, like food, clothing and shelter, is a basic human need whereas software is a luxury item. I think that difference in need versus luxury should have some bearing on a discussion as to the economic viability of solutions to a growing problem.
I am not totally familiar with the Canadian health care system. My understanding is that it's administered by the provinces, and that there has been a lot of discussion as of late of doctor shortages and so forth.
But recently someone on a local usenet newsgroup made this same claim you are making, and in the same note tried to imply that the US health care system is perfectly fine because of it's capitalist nature. (as opposed to the evil of socialism) So I was curious and started looking for some facts.
What I found is that life expectancy in the US is less than other G8 nations which have socialized health care(France, Germany, Canada, UK, Italy, Japan) with the exception of Russia. Furthermore the infant mortality rate is also higher in the US compared to the other G8 nations, again with the exception of Russia.
On top of that, the amount spent on health care in the US per capita is much greater... in the neighborhood of double. This despite(or maybe because of?) something like 40-60 million Americans lacking health insurance.
So I guess I'm puzzled. If Canada's system has broken down, what term do we use to describe the US system? A complete failure?
I'm a pretty big proponent for capitalism, as can be evidenced by my ridicule of the GPL proponents and the Microsoft antitrust trial on
If the best capitalism can do for healthcare is drive costs up without yielding any demonstrable benefits measured by statistical indicators perhaps we should be looking at alternatives?
i love my freedoms as a Canadian, and i love my cell phone, and i fully support peoples rights to peacefull demonstration.
I live in Ottawa. during the g8 conference a group of protesters has vowed to disrupt life in the city, and refused to talk to police, or make statements to discourage violence, infact they have encouraged it. Business are boarding up, and citizens are scared.
I do not like when people come to my home and destroy it for there own political goals. I understand the reasons not to block trafic, however, anything that can be done to keep my home from being destroyed by these protestors MUST be done.
civil disobediance is onething (gandhi practiced it, and never once struck out at anyone) wantan distruction of property is another.
before you comment, to this article about how your liberties and freedoms are being taken away by the authorities, think about what you would want if your home town was suddenly faced with thousands of violent protestors.
Unfortunately, Canadia is not a capitalist system.
I see this "Canada is a socialism" BS on here a lot on Slashdot, and I find it fascinating. Could you tell me where I might find a "non-socialist" country? I presume you won't say the United States, as public highways, old age security, public schools, police departments, fire departments, public health, any government agency, etc, is ALL SOCIALISM (I'm in a rush and am too lazy right now, but please show me the budget amounts for the US and Canadian federal governments: I'll guess that they are largely the same per capita).
Any time people gather together for a "common good" is socialism. Life insurance is a version of socialism. Health insurance is COMPLETELY socialism (or do all Americans forsake health insurance because it's "commie socialism"? Do they say "No, when I get cancer, I'm looking forward to ponying up $527,293.23, because that's the capitalist American way!). Any time you don't directly pay for the goods and services that you receive, 100% so, it is a socialism system that is supporting it.
Both countries have developed market economies. Both countries interfere in the markets of the country. The US is hypocritical in that it demands "free trade" for its exports, yet is very quick to put up trade barriers when producers in other countries can provide goods & services at a lower cost. Another example of the US hypocricy are the farm subsidies. If the US was truly governed by pure capitalist philosphy, the government would probably simply say to the farmers "Shut up, sell out and find a job in the city". The US regularly ignores WTO & NAFTA judgments.
Canada, on the other hand interferes in the economy by assisting individuals (more, but not much more spending on medicare (the US has medicaid, though it's not universal) and on education.) & taking a marketing role in items like commodities (Wheat Board as an example). Both countries back their corporations with tax holidays, no-interest loans and loan guarantees (Both countries bailed out Chrysler in the late 70s). Like the US, Canada ignores international trade decisions at its leisure. Canada gave loan guarantees to Bombardier for airplane exports against the As it turns out, our representatives wisely decided to opt for a capitalist system.
All western democracies have. Whether it is wise or not is debatable.
The highest bidder (that is, the bidder with the strongest desire to speak), is able to purchase spectrum at a reasonable cost from the American people. Thus, the maximum possible return is achieved for the taxpayers, and the highest bidder has paid a fair price for the scarce resource they need. Capitalism works - period.
It may be more prudent to lease the resources to the companies. If the resources are scarce, ownership should stay with everyone. Look at the havoc brought on by privatisation of electric services. For a European example, look at the UK rail system. I am crossing my fingers that the London Underground doesn't go the same way. Capitalism may work if you are privileged to begin with, but the market can also sometimes let people down with fatal results. I could also drag out the example of the post office. Without the government running or regulating the agency, many small/isolated communities would simply not be serviced if the post office were privatised.
Unfortunately, Canadia (sic) is not a capitalist society. Canadians favor socialist approaches to health care, government, and (yes) RF spectrum allocation. This means that the rights to an area of spectrum belong to the government, not to the people (as in America). And the Canadian government is now flexing their muscle and exercising their right to take this valuable resource away from its citizens, who wish to communicate amongst themselves. This underscores a crucial point of socialism: its sole purpose is to maintain control over the populace, at any cost. The basic premise of capitalism flies in the face of this sort of manipulation, and that is why America will never become a police state, regardless of what Draconian laws the Bush administration manages to pass.
Blah Blah Blah...Ask someone who is poor and/or of colour if your country is a police state. Money, and sometimes the perception of having it is what is keeping many people from being targets. Canada has the Charter of Rights, the US has the Bill of Rights, both have roughly the same level of legal protection. Arguments that in the US the government's power comes from the people and in Canada, the government grants rights and freedoms is purely one of semantics.
So, in summary: you get what you elect. If you vote for socialists, don't expect to get fair use out of the natural resources and public goods in your country. The lesson comes at a high cost for many Canadians (witness the breakdown of their health care system),
Breakdown, really? Have you been to a doctor, hospital in Canada? "Breakdown of the Healthcare system" is a term used by conservatives tojustify abandoning the system and give their wealthy supporters tax breaks. The health care system is underfunded, but okay.
but recognizing the problem is the first step in finding a solution and joining the rest of the Western world in becoming a capitalist country.
I think I have addressed this earlier. The US is no more committed to the free market than any other developed country. Though I have focussed heavily on trade & commerce, it is because that was your argument that a police state would never come from a capitalist society. Capitalism v. Social Democracy have little to do with democracy v. totalitarianism. What does this have to do with the airwaves? Well, as much as I hate to see legitimate dissent thwarted by abuse of authority, I really don't see what difference it makes whether or not we are jammed by a government agency or by a corporation. Jennifer
I make a reasonable middle-class wage by going to work and not spamming blogs with scams.
What really kills me is that the topic of whether or not Canada is a capitalist society or not.
/. would.
Who cares? Canadians? Great! They should!
American? Why? It's their freakin' country - they make their own decisions. What's right for use may or may not be right for them, but it's their freakin' decision!
/. is turning into society of nosy old women, poking their noses in everyone else's business and bitching and moaning when they don't do like
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
As an American citizen, I think we'd better start trying to figure out what works better than capitalism, because we're going to be needing it. What I'm seeing is a basically decent concept being turned into a dogmatic religion and going all sour and perverted.
An example: it's been proven through computer modelling that social groups segregate themselves through use of free choice combined with even mild preference. For instance if you have group A and group B, start them evenly distributed, and have them move to new places with the bias of wanting only ONE neighbor of 'their color', eventually they form ghettos. Which, in real life, may contribute to conflict- but it's not produced through any drastic prejudice on the part of the groups, it's an effect produced by the situation itself. Capitalism as applied to this situation would only aggravate it- it's no answer for what's happening. Individual choice isn't everything, any more than collective choice is.
Capitalism, technically, only means 'a way of managing things by exchange of value, primarily'. In practice it's 'rule by those with the most power', kind of self-perpetuating. There's no moral principle saying this is preferable- it's only a way of managing things. I'm getting pretty tired of seeing people go all jihad in favor of it...
The earlier post is correct.
The reason is that the trigger must be of an uncommon frequency so that when you arm a charge, someone doesn't hit a garage door opener and blow you sky high that second. If it carries on a common frequency, the key must be unique and so that the band that you are using doesn't kill you with any "punch through" or harmonics.
Or- if you are using a simple circuit reciever... you really need to set the arming mechanism to arm a predetermined time after activation, so that it doesn't get you as you are walking away.
I had a friend in the army. I am not a kook.
If Canadian officials are willfully disregarding the provisions of their own constitution, who are you to throw rocks? You[r supreme court] elected George W., thus creating the least constitutionally responsible executive branch in the past hundred years...
Most remote detonaters require that the RF carrier be modulated with one or more tones. An unmodulated carrier will not trigger the detonater.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Check your facts before posting - In Canada, the airwaves are most definitely public property. The use of the airwaves, much like the use of public land such as national parks, is regulated, for obvious reasons of common good, but that doesn't mean that the government owns them.
Just a little something for your noodle...
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/22/spai
I understand the ire of WTO protestors and people who feel similarly... I feel for them. But the world has changed a lot since Seattle. Especially in the matters of protest outside the Americas. Matter of fact, a LOT of protestors have been killed across the world since Seattle. Every time there seems to be a world anything anymore, there is activity of the Serious Bad Kind (TM). Just in the last few days, the ante has been upped for psychotic, killing activity. The psychos have really been rallying since the WTC attack.
I am pretty sure that these countermeasures are done to stop a little more than the drum circles and the occasional Starbucks window attack. The police are not as concerned about the dreadlock kids as many would think they are. Not after the mess in Spain.
If anyone is in Spain, please tell us about what is going on over their in your words... I think the
I doubt they need this for the G8 summit. The jamming of cell phone frequencies seems a little overkill because:
(1) the G8 meeting is held in a park called Kananaskis. It's in the foothills and Canadian Rockies, located in the province of Alberta. Anyway, the place the summit is located (the Rocky Mountain Lodge) is fairly isolated. Cell phone coverage is good in the area (so says my wife who has been there recently) but I'm guessing it's only available in populated areas or along the major roads.
(2) The place is being secured mostly by the Canadian military, with the RCMP in town or along the roads. The military presence is huge (the soldiers are fully armed), their primary role is to secure the outlying areas and they have permission to use deadly force. The air space will be closely monitored (they have mobile radar stations up) and jets can be called up or will be patrolling the area (I think there's a no-fly-zone in effect).
While there is a possibility of terrorists, protestors are probably an equal target of cell phone jamming. Protesters (good & bad) use cell phones as a means of organizing groups of people.
Let's just hope the RCMP doesn't fuck up and, say, jam emergency frequencies or that used by commercial aviation.
Health insurance in the States, with the exception of Medicare/Medicaid, is not there primarily to help people -- it's a way to amortize risk. It exists as a form of gambling where the private issuers of such policies and their actuaries believe that they can make money off people's aversion to risk -- and, unlike socialism, most of these plans (again, not M/M) are strictly voluntary where available. That's why insurance companies and HMOs fight tooth and nail to be able to deny people treatments -- the aim is money, not health.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
The least constitutionally responsible executive branch was probably FDR, well within your 100 years. He actually sought dominance over one of the other checks and balances by attempting to stack the supreme court, and nearly succeeded. But he was still a great president. He was as great as the republicans think reagan was.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
You should have said "...attacking, of all people, the pope...". He's most definitely not the pope of all people.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
We didn't attack Canada, we just defended ourselves against the English who were using Canada in their attacks on us.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
I was at an emerency preparedness presentation in Edmonton today. Seems that the cell phone system during the Pine Lake tornado was crashed by a bunch of media reporters. I suspect they are the real target of this jamming.
During Pine Lake, "individuals" decided that they needed to use the 12 available Cell channels in the remote town to do Live reports back to the Big Cities... so they grabbed the cell frequencies and NEVER HUNG UP! These press people are not terribly popular when they hogged resources that ambulance and SAR people might also want to use!
Fortunately there are a lot of HAM operators in Alberta and they were able to provide radio relays to the SAR people and bypass the phone service.
-AD
Then when the terrorists try driving a bomb into the area, it goes boom as soon as they get near. Sucks to be whoever's driving the truck, but the jamming gets its job done, just not in the way it was intended.
Watches and other methods of keeping time have also been outlawed at this event, because the chance of a group of people synchronizing their watches and deciding to cause a disturbance at the same time is way too high.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
.... for two reasons
1) They are making us fully aware of what is going on, there is no loss of privacy
2) They are not allowing communication and monitoring it. That would be an invasion of privacy.
I applaud the gov't for coming up with an alternate solution that doesn't infringe on peoples privacy.
The problem is that in the states doctors pay $$$$ to get their license while in Canada much of the training costs are paid by the government. My sister just became an MD and she is now 100G in debt - that's 10g Canadian per year. Students in the states pay at least that much per term. They've got big debts to pay off when they graduate and deserve to get pain accordingly. If my sister were to move to the states she could pay of her dept in a year where it would take an American trained doctor several years.
The current system isn't fair for either Americans or Canadians. Canadians foot the bill to train doctors that work in the states and American doctors have to compete with Canadians that don't have half of their debt load. It's actually good for the American public - bad for the doctors. Up hear in Canada we call it the "brain drain."
The two possible solutions are to have Canadians pay more for their education, costing the government less money which they can put back into paying higher wages - or to reduce the pay of American doctors and "make it all right" by providing more funding for their education / startup costs. I personally favor the first option as having a high cost of education simply limits good educations to those that can afford them. Ever wonder why all American doctors have rich parents? It is not because only the rich kids are intelligent.
Well said, sir. Thank you.
Heaven forbid one might be *wise* as to learn a subject regarding the social fabric of women in culture, the hundreds of years of books and plays produced by the English language, and the study of how ancient peoples lived.
Oh, I'm sure its wonderfully useful and relevent education. How great it is to study and be adequately equipped for your future career as Circuit City salesman or a Gap merchandiser or a McCounter Girl.
Forgive me for being fed up with those who feel that people with BA's are in dire need of jobs.Well, the ones *I* know all seem to be.
The dot-com boom didn't seem to call for anthropology majors.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Sure History and Human Studies may be entertaining and even worthwhile to learn about in, but getting an actual degree in them? Yeesh.
Heheh. For sure. Like, maybe after I'm retired and I've gotten bored of watching Wheel of Fortune.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
It's only "more dangerous" because doctors and emergency workers are more careless about what they can do because they've got technology that "unwires" them. How did doctors get by without cell phones and beepers before those things existed? If they were on call, they stayed in places where they could get phone calls or messages!
If movie theatres start using jamming technology, then doctors just won't go to movies when they're on call. (Or they will, and will be rightfully sued when something bad happens.) Since I'm not a doctor, and I hate when cell phones ring in movie theatres, I say big *##!#@#ing deal. If the movie theatres want to pay for some kind of smart-vibrate feature on cell phones, then they can pay for it. Can you say "emergency dependability surcharge" on your cellphone bill?
I design user interfaces for a free network management application,
Actually they take out the landlines from the exchange end.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Usually, the violent people at protests are not protesters at all, but opportunists hoping to get a chance to loot. Carrying such a sign will get them to attack you, causing the very chaos they seek. The looting and destruction will then ruin any message the real protesters were trying to communicate. Your sign would amount to yelling fire in a crowded theater.
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
Obviously you were misinformed about the G20 protests last summer. I was there, and one McDonalds got trashed near Sparks street. A few banks were spray painted in the same area. All 7 of these 'anarchist idiots' out of the 4000 or so people that were protesting were arrested promptly. When the peaceful protestors (ie: students from Carleton and University of Ottawa, along with professors, an old lady in a wheelchair that we helped push along, and countless other typical citizens without hand grenades, automatic rifles, etc..) arrived at the Human Rights Monument on Elgin street, the police felt appropriate to tear gas the crowd during a sermon given by a Muslim guy. Then, when the president of the Canadian Students Unions gave his speech, there was another flurry of tear gas. Granted, the McDonalds in the area was boarded up by that time, so perhpas there would have been another McDonalds thrashed.
I think you should try going to a protest and seeing what happens before spouting off like you know what goes on. That was my very first protest that I ever went to, and granted there was high tension, there was not mass destruction as the media and yourself would have others beleive.
Go check your history books. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms isn't even a quarter of a century old. It was enacted in 1982. Originally, Trudeau and the federal government wished to unilaterally approve this legislation (i.e. without the consent of the provinces). However, negotiations with the provinces eventually occured and in 1982, with the consent of 9 provinces (minus Quebec), the Canada Act became law. Thus, we now had a document outlining our rights and freedoms - and we also had a pissed off province in Quebec.
Carrying such a sign will get them to attack you,
Then I will beat them in the face with a camshaft.
causing the very chaos they seek. The looting and destruction will then ruin any message the real protesters were trying to communicate.I'm not interested in any messages conveyed by people who have bachelors of arts and beads in their hair. Nor will I tolerate them creating traffic jams which cause me to be late for work, *or* in neo-communist bullshit politics being pedaled to a very gullible government. These are not useful or contributing members of society.
If they were any less useful, they'd be producers for the CBC or members of the Asper family.
Your sign would amount to yelling fire in a crowded theater.Which only goes to prove my contention and assertion that they're savages and gives me a fool-proof way of letting them demonstrate it to the world.
Now I'm going out. I'm pissed off. I need a beer.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
The British, if I recall correctly, have used a similar method to counteract radio controlled bombs. That is to say, once you have an idea of the frequency on which the bomb is set, sending a signal on that frequency will in fact detonate the bomb. If you are the terrorist with the bomb hidden under your bed and visions of mayhem the next day when you plant it, that will be a Bad Thing.
I agree with your assessment of the editorial post. Just for argument's sake, do we think it is more likely that one person will die from lack of cellphone, or that 25 will die from a terrorist bomb? Does expected value play a role here, meaning that the one person has to be 25 times more likely to die? Who does the accounting?
If you want to object on free speech/free assembly grounds, fine. But this editorial is horribly flimsy.
-db
Suicide bombers don't usually need to tell other people when they're gonna blow themselves up.
:)
All this will do is annoy law abiding citizens who want to use their own phones.
Anyone with "an agenda" is already making other plans to deal with the problem since it was so conveniantly announced in the press.
Typical Canadian government - goose-stepping all over Canadian rights. Somehow I know that Jean Poutine is behind all of it
It's a police-state in the making...
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
As it turns out, our representatives wisely decided to opt for a capitalist system. The highest bidder (that is, the bidder with the strongest desire to speak), is able to purchase spectrum at a reasonable cost from the American people. Thus, the maximum possible return is achieved for the taxpayers, and the highest bidder has paid a fair price for the scarce resource they need. Capitalism works - period.
Heh, I don't believe this particular Randroid got the Canadian knowledge update or the experience in radio service pack. It did get its the theory of economics chip, shame it never got the theory vs practice update.
cancel the summit and hold it via wireless video conferencing
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Who in the US chooses not to have health insurance? I'm asking a very serious question here. The reality is that the ONLY people who "choose" not to have health insurance are the people who CAN'T have health insurance because they can't afford it. Similar observations can be made about property insurance, car insurance, etc. The "choice" in this case isn't a choice at all : It's a condition thrust on you by economic reality.
I don't want public roads, and I want them all to be toll roads (even my little side street). Can I have it? No? Oh right, it's against the common good. I want my kids to go to private school and I want public school abolished. Can I have it? No, of course I can't: It's against the common good. I don't want to pay TAXES, because what do I care if there's a military, or a fire fighting crew, or police : I live in a bunker and am a trained marksman, so why should I support the silly helpless victims out there? I could go on with examples of "socialism" in the mighty capitalist US of A, but I wouldn't want to upset any of the Slashdot freedom fighters who are so willing to brand Canada and Europe as "socialist" without looking in their own backgrounds, or understanding what they're really talking about.
Yeah, it's called democracy, and it's alive and well, and overwhelmingly Canadians support "socialist" health care (which, in reality, means "We all agree to buy into the big health insurance policy"). The people who make the choices are the electorate which goes to the polls and makes its feelings known.
Of course, as I mentioned in another post, the only Americans who "choose" not to have health insurance are the very poor who can't afford it. What a great choice.
Went hiking today in the area where the G8 will be held. The area is already closed off. The particluar mountain we went to was (just) outside the get-your-ass-arrested zone, but nevertheless we had to sign in and show id, and were cautioned not to get too close to the zone. There are black helicopters flying around (even over the city), often in groups of 3 in close formation. I don't even want to know what will happen during the actual summit. I'll also probably call in sick Thurs/Friday so I don't have to dodge protesters and pepper spray on my way to/from work.
I doubt the Pope's visit will get as much security, after all having 8 heads of the most powerful states in one convinient location must make for an awfully tempting target for anyone with an axe to grind.
"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
I think part of the problem of implementing universal health care in the US was with the most recent big attempt to institute it. Under the wing of Mrs. Clinton, a bunch of people with no public accountability and with no public visibility, holed themselves up to make a proposal. When specific details were learned of the process, it killed it. I don't remember if even the names of most the people involved in it were released. The whole thing was just an exceedingly complex mess, with I believe two counter proposals, all three proposed systems of heath care were printed on a grand total of 2700 pages, so public confidence on it wasn't bolstered by that either.
It's much like when G.W. Bush formed an energy policy and tries to hide the list of people he consulted, one can imagine that one isn't too pleased with that.
Also, I really don't know if the "corporatized news media" is really involved in making people think that Canadian health care sucks, but really loose anecdotes spread around by callers and hosts of talk shows, and grass roots word of mouth. I don't remember reading a single newspaper article or TV news spot that really discussed the state of Canadian heath care.
This is a good one.
Dude, welcome to Canada, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A CELL PHONE you'll still DIE if you were due to die simply because the healthcare system in Canada is going down the drain. I am Canadian, this isn't a troll, it's a well known fact here.
Just 2 days ago in Quebec there was yet another story about how a guy that had a stroke died because one of the emergency that was 2 blocks from his house was closed and he needed to be transfered 50 miles further to get assistance, and he died during the trip. You guys in united states get "everyday news" about Israel and Terrorists" here we get the struggle between the prime minister and his ex-minister of finance goign for a powertrip, AND "how our healthcare system sucked today (tm)".
So even if you'd get your Cell phone, I'll still go with the previous comment saying that either cell or toll phone, if you are in a critical state, heh, you're toated.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Someone modded that post troll?
It's interesting how a certain relativist crowd tends to incorrectly mod down posts they disagree with politically. Read the mod FAQ folks. Troll has a definition, and it's not just stuff that is contrary to your sociopolitical bent.
*scoove*
It may be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
I am personally convinced that the various intelligence agencies prevent dozens of terrorist attacks per months, some of them probably of the 9/11 magnitude, without the public realizing simply because the government wants to keep those quiet (no need to shout wolf once the threat is defused).
If so then why have they been shouting wolf over and over again with the least amount of information? If they prevented so much as a bicycle accident they would be shouting it on every network in order to distract us from the bad press they've been receiving lately. The fact that they warn us to stay away from bridges that nothing happens to and they shout triumphantly that they have a "dirty bomber" in custody (as someone else said it well, this guy couldn't even hold a job at McDonald's). What crap.
MONITOR THE DAMN CEL PHONES.
That way you can KNOW exactly what the bad guys are saying to each other and go find them. Or get real advanced and triangulate their signal. Don't tell me if you have triads of back helicopters flying patrol over 100sq/km or so you can't afford 30 guys in a couple trailers with bugging gear. Legally, I think citezens would understand making an exception of monitoring laws/etc. in this case. It's not like here in the US where they would make a law in advance to be allowed to monitor the whole country all the time and "any attempt to circcumvent such protections..." AH sorry where was I? Oh yes, there is an understandable need for this measure. Any solution that causes more problems than remedies is nothing short of a Microsoft hack.
If I was in the area of G8 and I needed my cel phone for an emergency (such as someone got hurt, or maybe if I WANTED TO REPORT TERRORIST ACTIVITIES), and I was unable to use it due to this security solution's bug^H^H^Hfeature, I would hire a lawer and sue the everlasting bejesus out of whoever I could possibly hold responsible.
Including the states/countries whatever of the leaders who decided to meet in this area (even if I would lose).
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Most of the posts so far seem to ignore the fact that this is being held in Kananaskis, which is a provincial park, i.e. wilderness. This location was specifically chosen because of its isolation. I can't imagine that there will be many people affected by this aside from those participating in the summit in some fashion (including protesters).
--
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." - Homer Simpson [1F10]
The Al-Quaeda type don't care, they'll go to heaven and will have 70 virgins just for them ;-)
Go and actually read the article. This is partly PR stunt, and partly law enforcement just covering their collective asses. They have no idea what they'll actually use jamming for, they're just saber rattling.
In case you weren't aware, most countries don't actually give law enforcement blanket dispensation from prosecution. Police break the law every day: they speed, they break and enter, they inflict violence, they kill people. No country that I know of recognises in law the concept of a "license to kill". The point is that they aren't prosecuted for doing this, because it's not in the public interest.
However, when their activities effect enough people, it's in everyone's best interest to document what's considered reasonable behaviour, partly so that law enforcement know how far they can go before being prosecuted. Stop and search powers are the most obvious, as they (almost by definition) target people who are mostly innocent. In this case, this is just the initial step in the process. They're trying to ensure that they won't be prosecuted for jamming RF the first time they do it. That's why this is limited to two specific occasions. However, if they do cause public inconvenience (or, hopefully, if they receive too many claims for compensation and get bogged down in individual lawsuits), they'll back off and forget the whole thing.
So, sure, this is vile in principle, but in practice it'll likely be a one off that will vanish into the footnotes of history.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
as much as I dislike what they are doing here.. you have to remember something. And if you can't see this... go travel a bit.
There is no such thing as absolute freedom. There HAVE to be rules.
The playground those rules work in is an ever-changing landscape.
No law covers all cases.
The point is.. if doing this briefly during something requiring very high security helps them, that's not too big a deal, as long as the order to do it is only for this event.
No, I'm not being complacent. Yes, I know that ' rights are eroded slowly'. But just because seomthing that wasn't done before is done now doesn't mean that's happening.
European nations, and Canada, tend to be more apt to do something as a short-term solution but not use it again and again in order to meet a goal. The US tends to do something once, then do it forever.
Remember, the law is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.
/. is turning into society of nosy old women, poking their noses in everyone else's business and bitching and moaning when they don't do like /. would.
s/nosy old women/humans/g. Or better yet,
s/of nosy old women//g.
These are people that support policies that keep the world poor, and slow the adoption of all kinds of technology worldwide. Hell, some of them actually advocate returning the entire world's populace to subsistence farming.
You'd think jamming these people's radios would be doing them a favor, introducing some much-needed logical consistency to their "arguments"!
And this is where we see political winds in action. The communists may not say foreigners out, but they say other things.
Examples: (http://www.pds-im-bundestag.de/)
-Taxation of wealth possessed (Taxation on items already taxed).
-Controlling of assests using public means and not private hands
-Guarrentteed income of all citizens
-Assisted control by the workers of corporations
-Taxation of stock trades to avoid speculation
So while yes Haider is an idiot (already defined), the communists talk about breaking all forms of capitalism. And that in my eyes is breaking the back of what we all built.
Now about interdict people on actions already did? Sure, my grandfather was sent to Siberia for five years, by the likes of Geiski because my grandfather believed in capitalism and free enterprise. Or how about that person who was shot two months before the wall fell in Berlin? Why was he shot? Because he believed in Freedom!
My point is that yes punish the right, but do not forget the left! But current politics in Canada and Europe seems to have forgotten that! The American Constitution does not forget!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Thanks... That was my point.
Sure the communists do not talk about getting rid of the pesky foreigner, they talk about other interesting issues. Like getting rid of people like me who believe in Freedom and Capitalism...
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
You are confusing multiple things here.
There are consumer rights and constitutional rights.
Lets take the example of buying an album. In America it was deemed that a certain age is required. But once you get to that age you can buy no matter what it says on it. However, in other countries if it says the wrong thing you cannot buy it no matter the age. THAT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.
America is not trampling on your rights, but simply saying you have to be a certain age. This is only natural because law has determined an age of when you have become a full citzen, which is allowed to excercise their rights as a citizen.
About things like DMCA, etc, well again confusing the issue. This is about copyrights and not about constitutional issues.
As a non-American an American programmer (who knows American history, law, constitution, etc) explained to me the differences. In Canada and European countries those differences are smudged to one and the same. Hence why you confused the issues in your posting.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Another simpleminded member of the PC crowd shows his cluelessness while modarating based on political content.
That post was OFFTOPIC exposure of the shallow joke called modern Liberalism's lack of credibility in the area of freedom of speach.
Thanx for proving my point by using your Mod points as a coward's way of avoiding debating the subject.
Freedom of Speach ONLY for those who agree with you, isn't that the essance of political correctness?
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
Since you so clearly agree that someone can decide what is more important for someone else, please understand that my need to get to the match in time is far more important than your boring, pointless little protest. So me doing 60 straight into and through the crowd, killing lots of stupid people is going to be perfectly reasonable. It really pisses me off when they people are so petty. This isn't a protest, its about real things, like 'soccer' (and to take a more straight face, the only person ever who didn't deserve a punch in the face for calling football that is Jon Hare) matches.
"And these protests have meant something -- for one, it's meant that the leaders of the 8 most important countries are having a clandestine meeting in the wilderness."
Sure. By that logic, Al-Qaieda's cause HAS to mean something, or Bush wouldn't spend money and lives hunting them down.
Either you are against protest altogether, or you have to accept that someone will crash a planeload of passengers into your office, apparently.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
I'm in a bit of an activist mood this morning, so let me rhetorically ask a question. Is protesting, and peaceful resistence in general doomed? (let's take protesting to mean the legal, peaceful acts allowed by the constitution, not setting cars on fire)
Peaceful resistence is predicated on the notion that by evoking a brutal backlash on the non-voilent, the population at large will be called to attention. This seemed to work for example, when the British were cracking skulls open with big brass-tipped staves. But, through the wonders of technology, *peaceful protest* might now be threated. We have new inventions in the hands of the police, military, etc., which can stop a protest *without* violence: guns that shoot rubbering gooey stuff, guns that remotely electrically stun/disable people, technology with can direct sound, and make people nautious and throw up on command, or can specifically target and cancel sound. Yeah, it might sound callous because now the police won't really be hurting people or running them over with trucks ("oops") and shooting them and stuff. But it also means that protesting will be useless. You can't get your opinions heard because you will be silenced, stunned, and disabled remotely and effortlessly.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Well Please share your solution. In every interview i have heard with the protest organizers they fail to mention what their solution is.
I should also point out that the windows of the mcdonalds you smashed doesnt belong to the corporation, but is owned by a local business person who owns a francise, and is trying to make a living.
I recently spent a week in Toronto (i assume this due to your complaints of a TTC strike) and did not once damage anything in your home town, litter, write on anything with chalk, and i also droped a few hundered dollars into the local economy. Next time you visit Ottawa, kindly do the same.
Thank You