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Carp-Free Independent Music Labels

robkill writes "The actions and intentions of the RIAA have been under close scrutiny in the folk music community as well as Slashdot. In addition to Janis Ian's article previously featured here on Slashdot, guitarist Harvey Reid has an article on the importance of internet radio for the independent music community. Besides posting a number of good links, he has started a signup webpage for independent artists and music labels who are interested in circumventing the CARP fee. Right now, it's only a mailing list for Artists and Record Labels who want to see internet radio succeed. So if you own the copyrights on some independent music, why not join the list? For the rest of us, it's a good list of musicians to support."

39 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Glad Somebody's finally doing it.. by billatq · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Quite Frankly, the RIAA's business practices make me sick. It seems that they try to make money off of everything that we listen to, while squelching the alternatives that we might listen to through another medium. They seem to want to copy-protect everything, throw fair use out the window, and then charge everyone royalties for what amounts to them as free promotion. I hope more artists sign up for this.

    1. Re:Glad Somebody's finally doing it.. by pheared · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's called, "Being a business in a capitalist world." If you want businesses to look out for Jon Q. Consumer's interests, to take care of his well-being, and to make sure he gets enough food each week, form a Socialist community. Until then, don't be surprised when you find out that every GM of the world is only concerned with how much money they can get from you.

    2. Re:Glad Somebody's finally doing it.. by billatq · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well--I'm not advocating socialism, but I don't think any single entity (and a non-governmental one, at that) should have this degree of control of the the type of music that we listen to and what we are and aren't able to do with the content in which we have legally purchased licenses. Not to mention, what happens when you aren't part of RIAA's big scheme of things? You can't exactly depend on a file sharing service to help promote your music, as they keep shutting the damn things down.

    3. Re:Glad Somebody's finally doing it.. by blitziod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      well then stop supporting them. Every time you buy a record from a big company you put oney in the RIAA's pocket. Write letters to small labels , indie music magz and the like saying we will buy no corperate media. Hell right letters to sony and BMG too, maybe they will get the hint. If people can be shamed into veganism and not wearing fur, maybe they can be shamed into NOT buying shitty music.

      --
      The only way to bust a doper--is when you yourself become a smoker!
    4. Re:Glad Somebody's finally doing it.. by groman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am going to get modded down for this, but the problem is not with RIAA/MPAA/BSA/Microsoft/GM/AOL/Enron or whatever monopoly is terrorizing you at the moment, but with the semi-Socialistic government of the US(and pretty much the rest of the world too) that fucks up everything and allows laws to get passed letting these companies screw you.

      In my humble opinion a country should not need laws, but rather a principle (i.e. "Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness") for the US.

      RIAA would be harmless if they tried to compete in real world capitalism as opposed to trying to legislate out of their ass.

    5. Re:Glad Somebody's finally doing it.. by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 2

      pheared wrote:

      > It's called, "Being a business in a capitalist
      > world." If you want businesses to look out for Jon
      > Q. Consumer's interests, to take care of his
      > well-being, and to make sure he gets enough food
      > each week, form a Socialist community. Until then,
      > don't be surprised when you find out that every GM
      > of the world is only concerned with how much money
      > they can get from you.

      At best, it is the worst kind of business in a capitalist world. Businesses do not have to care for social welfare (unless it is for the good PR), but they better care about treating their customers well. Or those very angry customers can take their business somewhere else, to the detriment, or even destruction, of the mistreating business involved. That is why there are all those sayings about "the customer is always right", or "the customer is number one". It is far more expensive to get another customer than it is to keep an existing customer happy. Happy customers keep buying from the business that makes them happy, making the business prosper.

      This applies to a true capitalist world, which unfortunately we don't have in the entertainment and software industries. Instead we have power mad monopolies and cartels who think they can treat their customers like criminals and use Congress to force them to buy. These are not upstanding businesses operating in a capitalist environment. These are greedy sharks that tear their customers (and their artists, and anyone who gets in their way) into bloody ribbons.

      One of the first steps in taking the RIAA sharks out is for independant artists to take over the internet airwaves. This is a necessary step that will not only give the independant artists a way to compete with the RIAA member labels, but will also save internet radio.

      Bells are ringing: Mothra, Mothra! Every heart is calling: Mothra, Mothra!
      Come on, Tok Wira, these sharks have gotta pay! New Kirk calling Mothra, we need you today!

  2. "CRAP-Free Independant Music Labels" by John_Booty · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anybody else read the headline this way?

    Wishful thinking, I guess!

    --

    OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
    1. Re:"CRAP-Free Independant Music Labels" by idfrsr · · Score: 3, Funny

      heh.

      real wishful thinking would be: CRAP-Free RIAA Music Labels

      --
      "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
    2. Re:"CRAP-Free Independant Music Labels" by scumdamn · · Score: 2

      Damn! I was just checking to see if anyone had posted this because it's exactly what I thought the headline was.
      I also was expecting some +1 Funny mod points. :(

    3. Re:"CRAP-Free Independant Music Labels" by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2

      The title gave me a sexylaid attack as well, but you beat me to the punch...

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    4. Re:"CRAP-Free Independant Music Labels" by glwtta · · Score: 2

      I didn't actually realize that wasn't the title until reading your post. It's late - what can I say.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
  3. Hopefully this new trend... by idfrsr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    won't fall by the wayside. It will take artists and musicians to make internet radio, and downloadable music something that we can all enjoy for a long time to come. We can huff and puff all we want, but they are ones who have to lead the charge for anything to change for the better.

    --
    "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
    1. Re:Hopefully this new trend... by telbij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but they need our money, and lots of it, otherwise they'll end up starving and turn to the record companies.

    2. Re:Hopefully this new trend... by e-gold · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think it'll take lots of money to out-do what the RIAA gives musicians. What it WILL take is a new way of looking at how-to-get-paid (and how-to-pay) that can eliminate the bottleneck between artist and consumer. (Yes, as always, I have a financial interest in a certain way to do this.) It shouldn't take a giant corporation's help to let a musician ask for money (either tips, or pay-per-download) because our side doesn't have layers of management who require (as Courtney Love puts it) all those trips to "Scores."

      For an example of what I'm talking about, see www.radsfans.net (and hopefully others soon). I again offer anyone here a small click of e-gold (not much, but enough to test) so you can try it for free. I want programmers to use e-gold, so please take advantage. Thanks.
      JMR

      (I speak only for Jim Ray, nobody else wants to admit this stuff anyway.)

      --
      Try e-gold - (contact me). I'm NOT e-
    3. Re:Hopefully this new trend... by PotatoHead · · Score: 2

      Yeah, they do need our money, but not nearly as much as they need when working through the RIAA.

      What they really need is a little mainstream attention once this gets rolling. If the quality is good, the money will take care of itself.

      (I am not saying that we don't need to support them, what I am saying is that we can support them easier this way. Which is a good thing. (tm --by some smart ass.)

  4. another page you all should visit... by Transcendent · · Score: 5, Informative

    inetprogramming.com is a website for independent music artists... there is a very long and detailed page about the rate ruling, and links for you to send a fax to congress about making legislation to save the smaller stations as well...

    I tried putting this in an article, but got rejected, so I hope a lot of people read this and send in a fax... I don't want to loose my favorite internet radio station...

    http://inetprogramming.com/notice.html

  5. Riaa Rep too answer questions on zeropaid.com by Ender77 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From Zeropaid.com webside:

    Got a Question for Hilary?

    A representative of the RIAA has agreed to take some time out of their hectic court schedule and answer a few of our questions. Don't miss out on a chance to voice your opinion!

    1. Re:Riaa Rep too answer questions on zeropaid.com by AntiNorm · · Score: 2

      Click here to access this thread on Zeropaid.

      --

      I pledge allegiance to the flag...
      of the Corporate States of America...
  6. Re:Where to buy ... by jcsehak · · Score: 2

    I emailed him about it. Hopefully you'll see a change soon. Until then, I can give you the info for one of them--it's in my sig...

    --

    c-hack.com |
  7. RIAA Membership List by abischof · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's also the RIAA Membership List, which can serve as a good starting-point for labels to avoid.

    --

    Alex Bischoff
    HTML/CSS coder for hire

    1. Re:RIAA Membership List by thales · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Boycotting the RIAA means more than just not buying CDs. If you download music that is availble on RIAA labels all you are going to do is make yourselves look like a bunch of deadbeats that are too cheap to pay for entertainment. A Boycott involves having NOTHING to do with the RIAA. Don't buy it. Don't download it. Don't make it availble for downloading. Don't attend the concerts.

      Write to the bands and tell them you are Boycotting RIAA labels and the reasons WHY, and urge them to sign with a non RIAA label. Leave Boycott messages on bands fan site message boards.

      Extend the Boycott. If a company has non-music bussiness Boycott that too. Don't buy that Sony monitor, or TV or PS2. Don't go see that AOL/Time Warner movie. Drop AOL in the unlikely event a slashdotter is using the service. Don't watch AOL/TW stations on TV. If a company hires an artist that is signed to an RIAA label as a ad spokesman, write them and let them know you won't be purchasing their products.

      Include the MPAA in the Boycott too.

      You have a big advantage. The RIAA and the MPAA deal in a non vital product, entertainment. You won't die of music hunger or movie thirst if you boycott their products. Use it.

      Don't worry about the artists being hurt in a boycott either. Are they worried that the RIAA's ploys are going to hurt you? Are they speaking out against copyright extensions and attempts to narrow the scope of fair use? If they aren't, why should you give a shit about them?

      --
      Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
    2. Re:RIAA Membership List by startled · · Score: 2

      Agreed. I've seen far too many people justify copyright infringement by saying they hate the RIAA, or the RIAA charges too much. Those are pretty poor arguments. The best way to stand up to them is to find alternatives; taking the easy way out and downloading RIAA tracks doesn't help develop viable alternatives.

      I haven't purchased, downloaded, or otherwise attempted to acquire RIAA music in some time now. And it doesn't hurt a bit.

    3. Re:RIAA Membership List by thales · · Score: 2
      Didn't I mention writing to the Artists and informing them of the Boycott? Once they start getting letters from their fans they might realize what the RIAA is doing, instead of hearing BS about how the RIAA is protecting them from the "evil music pirates"

      In my life I've seen artists involved in every cause from Viet Nam to Pop Ecology to Aids concerts. Don't tell me they have no time for causes. Inform them about the Boycott. Destroying the RIAA is certainly in their intrest. After they are informed of what the RIAA is doing to the fans, along their knowledge of what the RIAA is doing to them, if they still want to kiss RIAA butt, well I have no reason to worry about their fate.

      --
      Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
  8. Re:Can anyone recommend some internet radio statio by FatRatBastard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I broadcast on live365 (a damn good service I must say) but even those poor buggers have gotten the shaft by CARP. Their solution has been to levy a $5 monthly fee across the entire live365 lineup. I must say I can't blame them, they're trying to spread the hurt around as evenly as possible, but it does mean that you can't run a CARP free feed thru them without handing money over to the RIAA.

    I fear that this is what the RIAA wanted. Personally, I think CARP blows, but if the RIAA want to shoot themselves in the foot by all means they should be able to. But it looks like they'll be able to essentially shoot down any big time non-CARP radio feeds by simply being the 800lb gorilla in the music biz.

    Who (in terms of a large, easy to use broadcaster like live365) are going to run the risk of not paying CARP fees for everything and run the risk of the RIAA coming down on them like a tonne of brinks is a CARP free stream broadcasts a CARP covered song by accident?

  9. If you really want to help... by antirename · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hang out at live shows if you want to support your local unsigned bands. A lot of them are really quite good. Then, when you're buying their CD if you liked the music (this is about supporting the musician, remember) suggest CARP-free web radio. Leave them a card with a link to information, maybe your e-mail address (a lot of them will have mailing lists, questions, etc). I've mentioned mp3 archive sites and streaming audio to several guys here; none of them have done it yet but all of them were at least thinking about it. The local small time musicians know the problems in the industry a lot better than the geeks do, but geeks can at least make suggestions :)

  10. support? by SirRichardPumpaloaf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think I'll support musicians who make music that I like, even if their politics aren't always in lockstep with Slashdot. Is that okay?

    1. Re:support? by robkill · · Score: 2

      Hey, in my case at least, there are several artists on that list whom I like, so it's easy. The point is simply to encourage artists to stand for something that is in their best interest. It's about preserving a chance to be heard, so it's easier for people to discover artists they've never heard of, but might like.

      --
      DMCA - Chilling free speech since 1998.
  11. An Association Named Sue by jcsehak · · Score: 2

    For those who haven't heard it, check out my recording "An Association Named Sue," based on this post by Yo Grark. It's all free, so it's not like I'm being a marketing jackass here.

    I've also added a gif of an old pirate flag modified to reflect today's concerns. I think it'd make a great t-shirt, but I'm too busy with other stuff. Feel free to do whatever you want with it.

    --

    c-hack.com |
  12. Yes, non-native fish can be a problem by Jonathan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Many of you may have heard about the problems that the (Asian) northern snakehead fish are causing in Maryland. What you may not know is that carp are also non-native to North America, but were introduced from the Old World in the 19th century. Therefore, I am glad that there is going to be carp free music labels. There are many native fish species that deserve to be supported instead.

    1. Re:Yes, non-native fish can be a problem by Jonathan · · Score: 2

      I think Bass is native american fish. (Correct me if I am wrong and replace Bass with more american fish if you like :)

      There are indeed native bass in North America.

      What about "Bass" label on music CDs as a symbol of its free distribution?

      An interesting idea. One thing that is either positive or negative according your point of view is that bass are carnivores while carp are vegetarians.

  13. Our Fight, Not Necessarily the Artists' by donnacha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hope more artists sign up for this.

    Hell, I don't want my favorite artists distracting themselves with this business bullshit, unless being a fighter is part of what they already are, like Ani diFranco or Courtney Love. Life is too short, time too scarce for the few genuinely talented artists we have to go running off on tangents.

    This is a battle that we, the consumers, should be fighting. If we decide, en masse, not to play the RIAA's game, what the Hell can they do.

    Can I suggest that PeerCast (as discussed on /. earlier) is a very good place to start.

    And, remember, if we really want to stop these bastards shagging us, we must always remember that our participation in P2P has to be about growing a new, fairer system, not just getting our hands on free stuff.

  14. Doubt you're alone by martissimo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I mean, you can read endless boycott the MPAA rants here on a regular basis, yet when Star Wars, Spidey, LOTR, etc come out you can also read these same people's takes on the plot twists, and how good they are.

    I'm sure there are a few hardcore people who stand behind the principle of thoose boycotts they propose... but even here where most people are far more involved with their views about the **AA than is mainstream, i doubt a huge difference is actually made.

    Personally i just do as you do, i saw SW-EP2 in the theatre, i have a pre-ordered copy of LOTR DVD at Amazon which will ship in August, same with the new Dave Matthews CD pre-order.

    I despise the crazy bills that the **AA trys to get passed to inhibit our abilities to use a computer as we see fit, yet I still purchase the rare bits of appealing (too me, at least if you just wanna reply to criticize my tastes thats fine, but frankly i may think the same about your taste if so) stuff they put out.

    And I know i'm not alone, when there is something out there I want... I get it. I'm no Gandhi, I will not starve myself (so to speak) to make a point, guess i'm just weak, but so be it.

    1. Re:Doubt you're alone by PotatoHead · · Score: 2

      Me too.

      This got really long. If you are interested in hearing an alternative view regarding how to deal with the whole media struggle, read on, else skip....

      For most of us, they are going to get something out of us. Nobody wants to forgo interesting media in the hopes that the diminished revenue will make things change. It is not going to happen.

      I think the secret really is to exercise choice when you have it, and make them provide value to you when you buy. I believe there are a lot of people out there just sucking down whatever comes through their pipe without really thinking about it. These people are easy targets --true consumers. Life is short, we should make the
      best of it.

      Here are some of the choices I have made.

      Killed the Sat Tv system. (Will really miss HBO and their Sopranos series though.) Why won't these turkeys just sell me HBO without the 150 crap channels? I could wait a year, and get it on DVD, but I am not sure that is worth it yet.

      Put up a nice Antenna. Too bad the additional FM I get with it is not worth a damn.

      Purchased a DVD player. And use the money normally spent on the SAT to purchase programming I can watch at my leisure. This is a good value really if you can ignore some of the DVD annoyances.

      Ditched commercial radio totally. If I want something live, I check out the college stations, AM, or OPB. Programming is spotty, but there are good things to be had.

      Quit buying POP CD's unless they are very good ones. Never purchase any music without either a recommendation from a trusted friend, or a sample.

      Speaking of samples, I get them from listening booths, if they have good choices in there, kazaa of course, lending and trading other peoples media, and mp3 swapping. It is damn nice to just mail over a track to someone and be able to have a constructive conversation about it on our time, not theirs.

      For times when I am outside, or with friends, I bought one of those little FM transmitter things from Ramsey electronics. They will easily go 1000 feet or more. Any music source I own can be easily used around my home with current equipment.

      Spent more time outside. This is a biggie. You have no idea what you are missing until you start doing it. Coaching kid sports has been great as well.

      Know the feeling you get at the end of a particularly good movie? It's nothing compared to the end of a winning season, or close game. And there is no license required!

      I get news via internet, in favor of magazine and newspaper subscriptions. I still look them over on the news stand, and will buy one if it is worthy. (Not many are right now.)

      Started shopping for clothes with *no* logo on them.

      Take advantage of used media when it makes sense. Why buy twice? If someone makes a bad call, that can be my gain, not the **AAs gain.

      Let the kids sample music via peer to peer.

      Spent a lot of time surfing with the kids. Tossed out forever the idea of censorware. Who else is going to help them understand the net and what it can do for them?

      Told all my friends and neighbors what I am doing and why it matters.

      Here are some of the results so far:

      Kids are way more active. They actually consider going to bed on time, and are doing better in school thanks to their increased ability to use the net and their increased overall energy level they have from using their bodies instead of wasting them.

      Buying the DVDs has been interesting. The collection is pretty large now. You never know how much you really spend monthly on subscription programming services until you use it for something like this.

      So, taking that collection and sharing it among friends has been well worth it. Many of them are beginning to do the same thing. Because our tastes are different, I get to sample for free, things that I would have missed, or would have paid for via some subscription. Bet the **AA really hates that.

      Made some new friends via the kid sports thing. So far I have had two really good summers. That is worth something now. Will likely be worth more as my kids grow up and share memories and hopefully get their kids to do the same things.

      Feel better now on a daily basis. Getting out and making the best of your life relieves a lot of stress.

      Since I spend a lot less time soaking up mind-candy, I have had to find other things to do with my time. Writing (I did not say writing well though --ha!), getting back into programming, coaching, working on the house, are all things that took too much time before I started this whole thing.

      So, does this make a difference? I think it does. Maybe not in the shorter term, but in the longer term making active choices matters, and they will make a difference.

      I believe one of the right ways to deal with the **AA is to make them compete with life --specifically yours. They have a *lot* of power right now because they consume a large portion of many of our lives. Why exactly do we do this?

      They make it easy not to choose.

      They make things avaliable in ways that consume your time. This is not a bad thing, but the current structure often dictates you dedicate parts of your time that you really should be spending on other things.

      They make you wonder about how good things could be if only... Bullshit.

      You know life is really better than you think, and they spend a lot of time selling you pictures of an alternate one that looks better, but lacks the depth your own life has right now.

      If more of us put them in their proper place and started acting like customers instead of consumers, they would likely have a much different attitude in a few years.

      Just my .02

    2. Re:Doubt you're alone by HiThere · · Score: 2

      There are, indeed, many hipocrites. That doesn't mean that you should join them. I prefer not to patronize the RIAA membership, but for some reason, they don't publicize who they are. A purported list of them can be found at a site called "boycott riaa", but I don't know how trustworthy that site is. (It looks reasonable, but ...)

      And I don't even have a purported list of the MPAA membership. That should be a lot easier, as there are many fewer movie studios. But I don't know of one.

      So how am I supposed to know which studios are members? For some reason they don't proclaim their membership.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  15. Statuatory License Free Music is coming by mbone · · Score: 2, Informative

    There has been much discussion on the various webcaster lists about going "DMCA-free" - technically, to forgo the DMCA statuatory license. It's coming, thanks to the idiocy of the situation.

    The SaveInternetRadio group and the International Webcasters Association have a lot more information about the situation. Good stations such as SOMA-FM have been forced from the air, and more are likely to fold.

    However, there is a lot of good music out there that can be freely streamed. Some Internet stations, such as OntheI.com channel 2, have always played freely availabled music, as has MP3.com. It is important to remember that these stations are free of the CARP and DMCA restrictions and payments, much like open-source software is free of licensing restrictions.

    I look for a new ecosystem to arise, akin to the open source movement, with music licensed freely to all, with returns coming from the sale of artifacts (DVD's, t-shirts, etc.), and concert tickets.

  16. Damn right. by sulli · · Score: 2
    Hopefully the labels used by SomaFM and others can sign up to this, and then we can get our Groove Salad back!

    (p.s. CARP is still crap. I sent this fax just now, you can too.)

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
  17. Retroactive? What's _that_ all about? by jonadab · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Quoting from the article:
    > ... the major record labels [working through the courts] ... have
    > now made a serious move that, if successful, will ... apply...
    > hefty fees to broadcasters, ... retroactive to 1998.

    Retroactive to 1998? Yeeeesh. If that's true, it would
    represent a serious abuse of power, or I'm missing something.
    Lawmakers can't even _think_ about levying fees retroactive
    to 1998 (Article I Section 9). But now the courts _can_?
    The courts are supposed to interpret the law, not go off
    on their own doing things that *can't* be made into law
    because the constitution won't allow it. Or is there some
    twisted interpretation by which some extant law can be
    construed to indicate that these fees should have been paid
    all along? Can someone explain this, before I lose my last
    shreds of faith in our legal system?

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  18. What About Criminals and 364Kg Gorillas? by schmaltz · · Score: 2
    In my humble opinion a country should not need laws, but rather a principle (i.e. "Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness") for the US.
    Principles are all nice and sweet in the land of faeries and elves, but here in the real fucking world, when a criminal pulls a knife to demand your money or points a gun at your family...

    Yeah, you're right. No laws, just let em go... life will be so much better.
    --
    Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma ... where's Siggy?
  19. Send a free fax to Congress by SteelX · · Score: 2

    Please, I urge you all to send a fax to Congress regarding this matter. It's simple and straightforward, and it's free.

    SomaFM has a very convenient portal here.